 And we're live. Hello, everybody. We're starting the MIT computational law course of 2019 right now And we're coming to you live from the MIT Media Lab To get things started. I just want to go over a few live Basic Here we go, okay So the way that you can navigate this okay, so first of all If you have applied to be in the course at law dot MIT dot edu and been accepted We will have sent you a link so that you can be Watching this now, but also to review Lectures that were produced in advance for you and you can find all of those Linked from our agenda page so we've created a new kind of structure and format for the course The top kind of menu bar now will take you home take you to the agenda We've got our people page and some other resources. So for right now, let's focus on the agenda Right now we're beginning I'm doing some kind of housekeeping notes But we'll we'll get into the first Discussion on high-level view of what is computational on you can go back and check out that video at that link and We'll address some of the feedback that's come in so far on this pigeonhole Pigeonhole feedback widget and then as we're talking live We'll have opportunities for prompts and for those of you that are in the class to go ahead and put questions ideas and comments that you want us to address during the live session, which is a basically a conversation into that pigeonhole widget and I'm going to turn it Do you want to do you want to take it? Okay, great, so let me So while we're doing this housekeeping, let me also just click on people Are you ready to me? Did you have the email handy? Okay, great So our core team You can you can find on on the people tab our core team of instructors and and the rest of our core team all of the speakers which are a collection of invited Lecturers and breakout session leaders and best and perhaps most important of all all of the students who so far have Have created little hello videos and To introduce themselves, so we've got quite a few here About there we go and Kevin Sandoval is the last and and so moving on We've got the first speaker here from the second session just came in welcome Bill and so Let me get back to that page Great So to do a little bit of housekeeping. Oh, I'm sorry actually in the spirit of finishing introductions Let's just go down the line and and introduce the core team And then we have a little bit of information for you about how to connect throughout the day. So Who's going first? Okay, I'm so can you come off of you and I'll go on you too Hello, my name is Camilla. Doha. I'm a Brazilian lawyer and I'm teachers Assistant for the course, please come to me in for any doubts you have you can reach me out either on email or telegram and Basically everything you need. Hope you have fun Hi everybody, I'm Brian Wilson. I work at risk genius in a policy and operations role and I also made his kids to use legal hackers chapter and I am here to you today as a co-instructor and if you have any questions about things Any of the topics that we go over I can at least connect you with somebody who knows about them And that's kind of the the world I'm living in now Hi everyone, my name is TMA rogue here. I was most recently principal at in blockchain a Chinese venture capital fund This week, I'll be your team monitor Advocate and you can reach me for which asking you for any questions you have about connecting or the course itself So I'm going to briefly go over the email that we sent you earlier this morning so today's course would be a series of Conversations that we have lecturers coming in to give and in order to access them We ask that you go to each sessions page, which is linked in the agenda and Keep going okay, and in each session Page you'll see the link to the YouTube live that will be connected to the Conversation and then also a pigeonhole widget where you can post any of your comments So if you have any issues accessing that just reach out to me via telegram and just at me there Okay, and now I'll pass it back over to Dazza Great Okay, great. Thank you so much so we we have a star team here and For what it's worth by way of context For lat at lat. This is the fourth annual computational law Course at MIT during this January IP session last year Brian Wilson was a teacher's assistant and he's still relatively new to the practice blog and but already heading up the legal hackers chapter of Kansas City, Missouri and Camila was a student and You were a student can they or teachers assistant And TMA was a teacher's assistant now TMA has moved on up to to basically to be your main point of contact by way of Mentor and also your your first Basically touch point for communications with the course to make sure your experience online is great Brian Mila has moved on up to teachers assistant role and Brian has moved on up to co-instructor and so it was Nailing in on some some of the class sessions This could be you. I'm so go ahead and Discontribute to your heart's content do a good job and and welcome to the community So let's see now what I would like to do is Address some of the questions that have come in on The video what is computational law the sort of high-level overview so One question was So in the hack MD which by the way from get to in the back channel on telegram We see Here's a couple certification of identities will be crucial. You think computational law has any Inclinations on this issue centralized versus self sovereign or does it depend entirely on the architecture employed? Very interesting. So on that point Let me say I Touched on it a little bit in the in the remarks in China on sort of a high-level overview of a sort of This law dot MIT dot edu view of the key components and kind of the architectural stack of computational law But let me go deeper into online identity now So online identity is is key to computational law and to long the digital age in many ways for one thing as More and more of the activities that we do regularly, you know from commercial transactions to education To health care, you know, you name it occur online transportation We have an identity with with respect to each of these types of transactions and in a sense very important Dimensions and facets of our identity are occurring online So the legal implications of that will the business legal and technology implications of that are profound it means that we need to really figure out how to Ensure that our online identity affords Adequate capabilities to meet the different requirements and constraints that we would expect from official identity and also from times when we want unofficial identity like anonymity for whistleblowers or Certain civil liberties like the right to assemble and the right to associate It's been held to include some pseudonymity or anonymity with respect to what groups And so exactly so Brian was saying that this brings up a point if we go to official transactions for a moment I'm making online court filing. I'm signing a contract or a transaction online We want to be able to rely upon that identity And so one of the first things to take a look at is the uniform electronic transactions act and the electronic signatures in global and national commerce Act or e-sign. These are us legislation Uniform state and federal legislation respectively Respectively that implement international Instrument from unsatral the United Nations Commission on international trade law and that's a late 90s model law for Electronic commerce which includes the base and almost all nations have implemented this now and it articulates the basic legal Standing of electronic signatures and electronic contracts electronic records You can find aspects of identity within that and basically the rule is that any Fundamentally it's any sound symbol or process Executed or adopted With an intent to be bound by or authenticate a record Can can can act as a valid enforceable electronic signature So you'll notice that there's no particular certification needed for that and it would allow for any type of technology It could allow for a typewritten signature like a signature line. It could allow for a Biometric authentication it could allow for a public key cryptographic digital signature and the main thing is that you Applied it with an intention of signing the electronic record but if we want to now Authenticate who is signed it if we want to test whether they had authorization to say Conduct a certain transaction where they needed to be approved to spend more than $500 in the expense fund or where they needed to be a licensed attorney now We get into these questions of certification I think also we've in the past talked about we had that discussion one time about having a kind of like a Blockchain scenario move court where you're trying to authenticate records from a blockchain into a Into an evidentiary proceeding under the federal rules of evidence and so You know to what extent can that happen now? Yeah, um, and so what Brian's referring to and for for the monitors who are helping to create the HackMD I might ask if we could add a note to add a link to the digital signature mock trial Yeah, can you remember that? Thanks, I will do that. What Brian's referring to is about a year ago One of our guest lecturers coming up later today Kristen Smith and I through Massachusetts legal hackers conducted a mock trial to test how to bring electronic signatures and some other authentication information in into evidence in a litigation proceeding under State rules we chose Massachusetts Superior Court procedures, which are quite representative and We learned the great deal about how to lay the foundation to and for admissibility of evidence and then also which specific proofs are afforded easily by the Cryptographic system in that case the fundamental thing I want to say about certification is that there's kind of three or four competing legal regimes One of them is a government oriented regime You know a driver's licenses passports Permits specific authorization credentials Which is very much a centralized kind of regime And that's where we find the most prevalence of Processes like the certification that the student asked about And so some certification regimes that you'll find there include in the US NIST has HSPD 12 homeland Security presidential directive, I think whatever is a 12 which creates some the requirements for personal identity verification for issuance of Basically on government IDs on cat cards in the military and it's been extrapolated in a light way for things like Minimum federal requirements into the real ID act for issuance of driver's licenses by the states and Washington DC and territories, I think So these types of requirements deal with enrollment, you know, how did you? Identify the identity of the person when they're coming in show and that's like an I-9 list we call so show me a birth certificate show me Other identity credentials and we're that's enrollment there may be a valid Validation so we'll check to see was that birth certificate in fact issued by the city of Oakland that year that kind of stuff And then there may and then there would be an issuance of the identity credential and these are all be operated under some minimum set of standards for You know a due diligence and to that are auditable to make sure that people ask for the right information They did the right kind of stuff and we could validate and audit that Later after these kind of certification these certification regimes sometimes also include usage of the card after issuance So how do we do verification and how do we do like how do we use the card for authentication? So for? for electronic and physical dual credentials such as a and an ID that includes a Maybe like a Bluetooth or a or a RFID scanner Something that could get you kind of logical access and also Network access and physical access they may have some sort of audit over an access control list And they may look to to provide a second factor of authentication that kind of stuff So those are the sorts of things that you see in certification regimes the best work that's been done in the US on that was by a multi multi Stakeholder organization called identity ecosystem staring group which was created out of national policy Campaign called n-stick national strategy for trusted identities in cyberspace and you can if you Google that you can find a bunch of very interesting accreditation and certification guidelines and how an auditor could go into an identity system to actually Check and assess and evaluate compliance against these guidelines. It's a really good piece for those who interest in certification Now on the other side of this spectrum Like the by the way, welcome Christian Smith one of her friends and in Charest lectures tour at the end of the day. We're talking about your topic right now or one of them identity so on the other side of that spectrum is the as the as the student mentioned we have these notions of self sovereign identity or what will sometimes call In my research group self sourced identity. It's identity. It's coming from an individual and being asserted In a way that others could could choose to accept or or not accept it. These are it's a very different mentality here than a centralized kind of authorization Hierarchical regime for that with certification. This one's more of a bottom up kind of Network topology and some people have tried to use blockchain as one source of Credentials for the self sourced or self sovereign identity where you have a public private key pair, which we'll hear a lot more about at In the this afternoon with Christian Smith Other examples of that in the 90s here at MIT We used to have something called the web of trust where we would generate public private key pairs using PGP pretty good privacy which was a real thing and we would have them on these discs and stuff and We would we would exchange them with each other at key parties not as exciting as the Hollywood key parties, but still pretty good Where we basically change we would we would give our friends our public key and they would know from firsthand knowledge Oh, this public key came from Daza that public key came from Brian and we put them on key rings That's how it was we established a basis of trustworthiness for Linking a public key to a person. That's not a external certification That's something that's very much built up that supports and reflects existing Relationships that are trustworthy and then and then attributes the key to a person so that you can do online transactions later Brian. Yeah, I was gonna say it also seems like to kind of in the private space. We're seeing Multi-factor authentication be in a sense a way to kind of source out some of these some of the certification of identity, so As far as models go, you know, maybe that I think there are probably some lessons that can be learned from there In as far as you know, how do we get some of these pieces to interoperate in the ways that would be most helpful improving that you know if Some combination of you know my cell phone being in the right spot my watch being in the right spot And even if I don't have my car keys, maybe I'm able to get into my car To some degree that would be desirable But there it also need to be some sort of offset so that you know if all of those things get stolen I'm not completely out of all of my possessions here here So anyway pulling back up I was just looking at the the feedback kind of first in first out and the first thing happened to be certification of identity that is a little bit of a You know a leaf on a twig on a branch on a tree of computational law So let's get back to the trunk of that tree for a moment what I hope that people will have Gleaned from the lecture and from some of this initial setup is that When we say computational law in the law dot MIT edu kind of sense and from this perspective and Context what we're trying to get across is Is a almost like an architecture by which the law can exist as As as a Computational system and so as an example if you look in the travel industry They have a system called saber that has basically allowed for the booking of flights on a wide variety of Of airlines and so they have some interoperability that works very quickly so you can discover Well, what you know what flights from what airports and endpoints exist you can get pricing on them you can actually get ticketing and And things go From many to many and it works pretty well. They worked out the data structures. They worked out the network topology They've worked out how to conduct transactions and messaging. They've worked out how to um, basically express The the itineraries and things as a service that can be ingested across many systems and then displayed on screens It's a good example of a working system in the industry of Transportation that includes many of the stakeholders, you know from consumer right back to the airlines or back to intermediaries It's global Does that sound like the law to you Not really like not at all, honestly So part of what we're trying to get across in that first lecture was just in a very methodical way We encourage you to start thinking about law as a stack kind of and so At the one there's many ways you can conceive of the stack But one way would be just a very matter-of-fact way would be at the bottom. You can imagine there's data Well, there is data in law that laws are very in that laws are very information-intensive field for sure But to be computational we'd be looking for structured data and so You know something like JSON XML Standard into a specific format Data that's input into a specific format and so I'm about to hand off to Brian who did a great job I think in your in your kind of more in your deeper dive lecture And looking at doc assemble into what structured data is. Yeah, so I think in terms of that model, you know having the This kind of here we go Yeah, so the data The data layer the simple layer the computational layer and the output layer Uh It may be an over simplification in a way But I think it touches on some of the critical points that you would need to have in order to Have something that allows you to compute the law whether that's um at the level of You know some internet service provider Whether that's at the level of me as a as a citizen, you know, they're they're going to be different kind of tiers At which we're we're operating um And so I had pulled up Let me get some of the questions. Okay. Um, so well while Brian is doing that Just to kind of walk up the stack a little bit You could imagine once we have the concept of structured data so we can manage the data we can Sort filter search the data some things like that. We can begin to compute the data with things like regular expressions and more complex Um software We could then start thinking about an a concept of um applications perhaps. Um, and then from You know apps on a phone applications on your computer Um applications that can interoperate and interrogate data for multiple sources And could themselves be integrated with platforms in some way so like a major platform in the law right now is um Relativity is a is a good example in the litigation space And they do um, they make it easy to basically apply computational methods and some reasonable data science to discovery requests, which can be, you know, like Gigabytes and terabytes of of information. So they they've got some nice methods to do that They're not there. There's several other vendors in the marketplace The reason I'm mentioning relativity in this case is not an endorsement but because they're a good example of um Of a company that it's a platform company But they provide a big developer page where you can get a developer key and you can Integrate a whole any kind of app or service that would be part of your workflow And we're actually going to hear on a wednesday and thursday from an example company in serio that That does a bunch of creative apps and services and they'll and they'll walk you through What it looks like to design and build an app quickly that integrates with the developer interface using um rest um and um awaq tokens and Little front-end stuff so you can kind of get used to that in some different use cases walking up the stack I already mentioned platforms, but there's also going to be some kind of concept of um of an of uh I guess I'd call it like uh um And of uh analytics, uh, so some some some concept of algorithms would be somewhere on that stack So right now we're looking at the application of sentencing guidelines that are algorithmically driven Hiring is increasingly algorithmic. There's a lots of algorithms. We're looking at um Trying to predict what a court will rule. Dan tats has done brilliant work on that. Um other sorts of descriptive and predictive analytics Somewhere in there as some of these algorithms become part of legal instruments and legal processes We'll want to be looking at more regular Um and standard and common approaches to algorithms may have classes of legal algorithms Some of them may be official. Some of them may be um Incorporated by reference into statutes the way the building codes are now um, and so um, those are some examples of some components up a stack of um of a computational law So why don't we start why don't I start to transition or uh to to you and your topics brian And um, well, we're doing that. I do want to make a call out to the um viewers, which are steadily increasing Ah, welcome vicki. Uh, so we've got our next two um lectures in the Watch we've got almost the gang's all here. Uh, so um, but we'll go to brian. I want to encourage everybody out there Um to go to brian's session page Right, and I'll do a little screenshot of this and to start giving us some real time feedback Using pigeonhole of what we're saying now so that we can have a conversation with you And you know the best part of this conversation Is you can all talk at once And that's pretty good and you can all upvote your um You can upvote the the comments of others so that we know which ones most people want to hear about So let's see if I go to agenda what i'm talking about just so you're So there is no confusion is click on brian's session at 11 30 or four minutes late, but you know We're in hack time. Um It was by accident. Oh my goodness And so we've got a few things now it looks like we've got some top questions here, so Stick with us um and keep in the conversation live online in this new pigeonhole widget in this new pigeonhole widget So why don't you take your um your mute off? I would say and I'll hand the controls over to you Take it away brian. All right So oh now I got to get back to the right time It's a process. Yeah, so as as you were kind of talking about e-discovery one of the things that I think it's very helpful about e-discovery especially to the people of the legal community who have You know, maybe not been as immersed in the technical side of things Is it helps contextualize what a lot of data can do for you? Because e-discovery was really the first big widely accepted legal tech use case in the legal community Because e-discovery was necessary um and What that kind of demonstrates I think is that all of these computational apps empower The production of large amounts of data that can then be used to kind of You know reassemble things we can Derive insights from them and we can use them to come up with new and fun stuff um and and so uh brendan points out, uh, you know with iot and transactional applications that are going to be hugely Computational in their in their very nature, you know, we're going to have to we're going to The the frameworks for regulating that will necessarily need to be computational themselves the there will need to be permissions on iot regulations in terms of what sensors can and cannot collect um, so whether that's you know, pii or um just data that in aggregate could be used to In some sort of way like build this mosaic of who you are From all these disparate pieces of information, you know, that's not really desirable So we're going to have to you know, also build in maybe something like an obfuscation layer that You know distorts maybe up to like five or ten percent our ability to like Reverse engineer somebody's identity from all the different pieces that we know about them Yeah, so that's that would be an example um in identity circles at least that we would call um First of all, um anonymizing or de-identifying Identity data, um so that we can maybe gain some insight or work with with information for good public goals like um epidemiology and disease control traffic analysis without Risking violation of individual privacy and then one of the ramifications of that is making sure we don't have enough data points in there So that a clever data scientist like people in our lab do all the time and have published a lot about cannot So it's the re-identification risk. Yeah. Um, and so just FYI well, we're at well, we're sharing knowledge is three good ways to Not just to find and replace like it takes some wrangling of the data to get all the percent identifiable data information out of a data set number two, um doing some Aggregation is a really good way to do it. So if you're not applying the raw data But instead you're providing some aggregate so like, um, you know traffic flows between You know, um this stop and that stop on route 128 Included, you know, this many trucks and that many that and that many of the other that were aggregating some of the data Which makes it really difficult to re-identify people There's other ways to aggregate data and then the final one which is you know, the most sophisticated is um Technically it's sometimes called perturbing the data But what we mean by that is um, well obfuscating that is Brian's that's probably a better way you can actually Mess with the data a little bit put some false Synthesize people or change the start and end time or the start and end location Of cars if it's a transportation thing so that it's you entered some of that five percent would be a lot You want to do it at the lowest possible percentage of messing the data up Where it also creates it makes it um exponentially harder to re-identify individual people Um, and so that's a whole data science there, but anyway back to you Yeah, and I think a bunch of this stuff is getting to Help frame the you know where we are now You know, we've we've got these kind of building blocks that people are realizing that we can start assembling together in these massive scale ways And and to me it's almost like we're entering Sort of a legal techno industrial era where you know people are figuring out how to Reconfigure these things in a meaningful way, but also I think in terms of framing the uh Discussion around you know, where are we in terms of like the the power structure of the way that data is being used So in the same way that the industrial era saw The people who were coming up with this stuff Being able to control like the way the labor was Organized, you know, right to what extent are we seeing that with data now? I I think is a important question and maybe there are some interesting parallels that we can wind up drawing from That kind of historical context and kind of retrofitted to what we've got In the current like data paradigm that we have Yeah And actually this so the top question right now Um might be one entry point into that. Um, let me let me read it out loud. Um, so Weighing in at four votes Is uh from uh from rena Rana rather sorry. Um, my view is is a bit different I think the law is anything but black and white and I hope when developing systems We don't pigeonhole. Uh-huh Users into boxes when the law allows for wiggle room Oh, um, and it's saying that the video just froze. So Be patient. Um It should unfreeze Okay, uh, and so Okay, so, um, so let's speak to that for a little bit and like maybe can I start us off? Sure. Um, so Um, I think that that's a very very good point. Um, just to give an example of that In elizabeth renaris's breakout session on thursday She's going to address I think one instance where where the law not being black and white is Is very important, especially for computational methods Applied to law and and she's going to be talking again about identity. I guess that's incoming sort of a sub thread here And what legal framework should apply to digital identity up to now? In particular in the human dynamics research group in the media lab where where i'm a scientist and Basically law.mit.edu is um is housed in we have very much since um since Well before 2010 um had this concept of a new deal on data. Welcome, ryan. Um um Where the idea is that people should be able to exercise ownership control or own Of digital identities and personal data, you know the same way um in common law property People can own their own property. So it shouldn't be just expropriated from us and use without our knowledge or consent that would You know arguably some be some form of theft or conversion or something like that Whereas if we could have a place to put it No, you know be able to manage it be able to uh exercise, you know more fine-grained authorizations for others to use it or or exclude use Um, but we were the principal decision maker wouldn't that be a better world? It would be a better world, but um now comes the next level question, which is this property the only legal framework that should apply Is it that? Um and out there on the speaker circuit talking about sometimes human rights frameworks Maybe need to apply to individual identity. It's sometimes civil Liberties framework supply. Yeah, you know if you have a um a diary for example Or a journal I could sell my journal on ebay for anyone that wants to see my doodles or something And that would be property. I probably get 10 cents for it. Um, but I could also If I had my pocket during a traffic stop and an officer wanted to you know flip through it They actually now we need to start applying on some civil liberties of legal frameworks. It's a stop in seizure It's my papers and effects. It's an emanation of my identity as a free person with some with some rights And they might need um reasonable suspicion or might need a warrant So we need more flexible thinking when it's not so black and white as ron is saying But which legal frameworks apply under what circumstances and then it gets even more Um complex I think as we as we look at um times when the law is more like almost like poetry And we're talking about who is the sister city of my city? I don't know There's no there's not like an algorithm but it's the feeling in the heart of the people As expressed through the city comes the referendum and I think that brings up two things in my mind the first that kind of helps frame the second is that um in the in one of the The recommended readings by Walter Maynard where he talks about you know, whether computer ethics is unique or not Um, just one quick thing. We've gone down to three viewers and telegram is going wild. What's going on? How do we fix that So one quick technical moment. Oh, we're up to 15 viewers. Okay. Why don't we give people a moment to catch up and And dig back in. Okay. Okay. Yeah. All right. Um, hey, welcome back everybody We didn't say anything that good During the freeze. It was pretty good. We can summarize it But let's let people get back in and we had a freeze frame You can imagine a disco dancing move if you want But uh, we're back up to 22. I think we were cruising altitude at about 32 to 35 viewers So when we get back up to say 30, let's take back into the content. Welcome back everybody. Welcome back Welcome you could some whoever's doing telegram. Let people know that it's Unfrozen 25 24 it's going the wrong direction again Okay, well 25 is substantially everybody. Could you let people know we're gonna pick up and um, They can go back and view the we can have them sound out the archive We should have people sound off, shouldn't we? Well, let's let's get back into what we're saying and then and then um, Should we do should we do a sound off? Okay You want to try the sound off? Okay, let's sound off. Um, all right, so We want to um, could you shake your mic off and I'll turn mine on. Yeah Okay, hi, okay. Um, we we know that we've had some technical difficulties. So we'd like to ask that you um Join us in the pigeonhole for the current lecture, which is um Which is Brian's lecture. Um Which I'm helping a lot with uh, and we're kind of co-doing the first two lectures. Um, Let me present to everybody boom. Here we go. Um, so this is um computational on doc assemble. I'm now Screen sharing it and we want to ask that everybody that can hear us now Please sound off In doc assemble and what we want what what phrase should we have them sound off with? Hack the lawn Yeah, we could have them just do the hashtag Okay, the hashtag so we have a hashtag. So this is also a bit of announcement. Um sound off by typing mit law hashtag mit law boom ask into the um pigeonhole Um, and let's just see if we can get um Everybody doing that. There are new questions view it MIT law venessa welcome Okay Getting more comments. Okay. I uploaded my pump Min panel run the links. Okay. How are we looking? Is it working? Okay, we have a lot of sound offs Accident ha ha and my tila. Okay. It looks like okay. We're back on okay. So we apologize Okay, it looks like we've got also the right number of viewers. So we apologize for that. Um, little freeze frame we're Working with google technology here and and it's pretty good for free. I gotta say so, um, brian, you were just um You were just making a point the question about You know to what extent the law is black and white It kind of Can be answered a little bit or at least framed a little bit by one of the Instructional readings that we had um where walter manor discusses the extent to which you know things that Have a computer or some level of computation involved in them are unique And he he has like eight criteria that he sets out. I can't remember them off the top of my head but it's like Is it like compared to something that exists in the physical world? There are these unique differences that something with a layer of computation has and one of them is that you know You can copy it. So it's not the same sort of privacy paradigm Privacy legal paradigm or uh, not intellectual property legal paradigm where you know, I have this thing or Property paradigm for that matter. I have this thing And if it's a physical thing, you know, you you just can't copy paste it But if it's like some source code for some software, you can just copy and paste that an infinite number of times and so the There are these unique considerations that computation has And and I think in terms of what we can do now and especially with data You know data could touch on a number of those considerations and I think it probably involves You know different Different levels of balancing each of them based on the based on The data in the context that is applied. So I think it points to you know In different situations, you're going to have a series a different series of combinations That might best be managed Yes with some some series of permissions or some way that people can go in and say, hey, you know for this application I'd like this or I prefer that and you know based on that series of preferences, you know You get some sort of legal outcome that takes place. Sure. And there's lots of great examples of that out there the q&a markup and Thompson Reuters and others provide tools and services for attorneys at intake to start to Narrow down What what the client's probably interested in so you do routing q&a for what type of deal are you doing bloomberg law? He said the very interesting one That's where I'm heading next and take a look at the second number four Go get her. Um, so I'm going to hand it right. I'm going to hand a softball to you but uh bloomberg has a um A very interesting tool for corporate counsel Where they have analyzed the entire corpus of sec filings on edger filings and have done some interesting analytics um on that that to allow for Basically drafting expert system kind of advice and recommender tools So, you know for what clauses would be maybe um kind of standard or appropriate and combinations of clauses and sometimes even terms Um, you know for a given type of contract. I've seen some other systems with startups that uh in real estate where they're where they'll Automatically let you know based on um interrogating a bunch of sometimes very expensive back-end databases What is the going price? For this kind of fixture in that type of dwelling in this kind of zip code So, um, these are all good examples. Um, the next question What would like you to address because it you get the top votes and some people's favorite is um, what if Dock assemble was developed into an automated regulatory compliance tool such as for business Permit filings or corporate reports. That's sort of a specific example of where you're going, right? Yeah, I think what's interesting about, you know, the ability to turn these things into measurable with into applications that are measurable with data that we can use to Understand at a deeper level, you know The health of the system is that we can start having templates that say, hey, you know this combination of facts or data indicates that This corporation is very healthy or is likely to succeed or maybe this combination of facts is less healthy and less likely to succeed or You know, if you have some area in your community that you want to improve You could say, okay. Well, let's let's try and figure out how we can reconfigure this series of facts in order to achieve the outcome that we desire so it allows for like in my mind a larger degree of creativity and figuring out how we want to govern the way that these These transactions with our community are Happening. Yes. Yeah, just so and so I'm thinking of some experiences now with oh gosh, I was Screen sharing the whole time. Sorry everybody I'm thinking some experiences with the national association of secretaries of state and especially their corporate the chronic corporations division subgroup where they've Some secretaries of state have have adopted and embraced at the u.s. Level Some very advanced processes for Like things like auto form fell when you're doing a corporation if it's your Third or fifth or hundredth corporation. You can do some interesting bulk kind of data Transactions and and I think the best example I can think of for for the very structured Handing glove fit between data science and And software development and law is actually buy into it and it is turbo tax And quick books and quicken Where they they have very fully expressed the complex tangle that we call the eternal revenue code The tax code in the United States as working software. That's very much data driven so I want to make a I want to do I want to try a stretch goal before we end this session, which is For those of you that are listening and you're if you're on the session page um Let's get one more question on the fly from everybody in our final five minutes So there hasn't been much action up voting at least that I can see Right now. Um, yep. There we go. Um, so if there's a question in there that you'd like us to address That isn't already the top one or two questions um um Upvoted Or put a new question or comment or idea in there for us to address in the last couple minutes So everybody invite you to take a moment now And we should adjust it'll be like a 30 second pause to get into the pigeonhole widget on brian's page for um for uh for this lecture and um and upvote Things you want us to deal with or put a brand new thing in there and give people a chance to upvote that And you can even do the lightning round A lightning round. Yeah, so this is a lightning round Okay, so we're looking so we have new questions view the new questions A lot of good sound ops anybody else Oh, okay Okay, well, we're waiting for new upvotes. Um, here's one from Luciana Telles aka aura. It was also a very, um Constructive member of the course last year My understanding on law is that it still implies practices for specific geographic locations. For example gdpr Which of course applies in in europe. Um, that's um general data protection regulation a privacy rig And not just europe, but there is a geographic a strong geographic, um jurisdictional boundary condition that's part of the The application of that law the scope of the law And so do you have any references for literature regarding the disruption of VPNs virtual private networks and digital IDs And I think what aura is getting at is this sense of almost like a post jurisdictional Cyber layer Of law and of legal processes and transactions that in some sense transcend A country or a state jurisdiction Any any thoughts on that Including from our august speaker Lecturer group all of the lecturers that are here in person. They are actually in the room with us So we've got the brain trust. Um, any any thoughts on that from anybody? I'm looking at you brian. By the way, you see, you know But anybody You'll learn. I mean, we do have like the onion router like tour onion router so you know So that deliberately obfuscates the geographic origin of um of all sorts of communications and transactions for the Exchange of rights and and possession of digital files. Yeah There's one any others I will put one out there blockchain. Um like, uh ethereum and um And bitcoin and so you can do some forensics on transactions there and start to Figure out if people have not covered their tracks. Well, like where the identity and the location a bunch of other stuff about The endpoints and and through points of those transactions But um, if it's coupled with good information security, you can Significantly is deliberately designed to obfuscate and really delink from the specific jurisdictional rules and and uh financial processes Of um of wherever the party What would otherwise apply if uh the transaction was conducted with fiat currency? Like um with automated clearing house or or or a certain like credit card It was like bitcoin is meant to be stateless meant to be stateless In the sense of jurisdictional state. Did you think of anything? Well, I mean, I like the the point that uh the essential rights identifier people make that know http based Identifier is you're basically leasing your identity, right and uh if the domain Changes hands that who knows what you're you know, what do you reference saying that identifier for the point to? so on so um, that's definitely Concerned that the centralized stuff So Two things just occurred to me as brian was just using on the question One of them is that people probably couldn't hear you and the other one was we had a kind of a crazy idea And so everybody's in the room that maybe before we get to our 12 p.m. To 12 30 break Maybe uh, this the speakers from this afternoon could come up and join us Just say hello and just say kind of what your session is and we'll say when your session is and that might be a very nice way to Close the morning. Would you be willing to come up? You've traveled so far. Um, come on up everybody That's a speaker and um, let's um grab a few cheers for everybody And we will produce your Face Actually, can we pull this back to where it was? Okay. Um, can you come around this way? Thanks Motion to compel production of the speaker's face This is like that um that big mash-up when like Batman and you know iron man Wherever the transformers are all together. Oh my god Okay This is the justice league Okay, so I'm going to take this off and could could you um Help facilitate just a quick round of introductions and what people know when the when their sessions will be and I'm going to be um Doing it from this. Okay. Yeah, so Vicky we have not formally met but I'm brian very nice to me too Could you tell us a little bit about yourself in your session? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, um, I am coming in representing um kind of the music industry licensing landscape and the value chain and um, and You know my motivation in speaking here is that music is undergoing a massive amount of of disruption And the you know, we've got new service models new ways for artists to release music And I think the way that the contracts and the arrangements between parties That's that's a an outsized Heavy burden that most dsp's have to to get all the rights And so I think it's it's you know, it's really exciting to put some of these ideas into the hands of And into the minds of of technologies because I think there are better ways to execute on on music licensing deals And uh, what time is vicky session vicky session is from 1 30 until 2 what time so eastern great. Thanks vicky Hello, um, I'm bill rosenblatt and I am a consultant. I run a consultancy called giant steps media technology strategies And I have been looking at this intersection of copyright law and technology for over 20 years um, I wrote a book about digital rights management in 2001 and I've written a whole bunch of stuff since then um Do a conference called copyright technology. I work with the open music initiative which vicky works with And I'm going to be speaking about something called rights expression languages, which are formal machine readable languages for expressing rights that are Relate let's call them related to copyright law if not exactly copyright law but attempts to emulate copyright in in machine readable terms And this is going to be I think of interest as people start to implement Actual solutions in the digital music space to solve these massive scale licensing problems that that vicky is going to tell us all about here So I'm excited to be here and my session is at 12 30 eastern time classy. Thank you And one of those that happens to the otrl 2.2 And we've got a special guest and a friend of the program Who is on the drafting committee and he's going to be doing a session on thursday on that tax Who are you? I'm brian listening. I work at tonsil writers labs here in Boston and also labs in dallas as part of t.r um So the the head of the odrl 2002 Working group was actually also one of my colleagues at tonsil writers in montan Tonsil worries has who's that then uh, Benjamin with um smith then would have said it Was it smith sorry? Yes. Yeah, I gotta run too. Yeah, uh, very very british benedict with smith and um, so yeah I'll talk a little bit maybe about the if there's time about the motivation for this that t.r Has all of these content sets that are have from third party providers that have Restrictions on where they can be distributed and how they can be distributed when they can be distributed and so on Which led to our participation in this I'll talk a little bit about that and And uh, yeah, it's like to be here as always wouldn't be january without the iap computational law Festival and and seminar here. Thanks, brian He doesn't you stole my beard I think you know, I think you stole his beard. I stole your beard. He stole my beard part of it i'm christian smith and I am a co-founder of stranger labs And prior to that I was here at MIT Working on some some plant stuff I am a programmer or a hacker. I teach on cryptography by implementing open standards By reading rfcs and other kinds of facts and writing code and helping folks for those in production and so I guess i'm here to be the kind of reality check on some of these brand Technological ambitions that involve her faculty And and help make sure that they're well-rounded These sessions are particularly interesting to me because my first life was as a musician I went to Berkeley College of Music in the late 90s and it was uh, I was actually studying I was taking the mandatory music business class and learning all about royalties and contracts right at the time that abster came out So so that was the thing that kind of pivoted me into startups and technology now it's Full circle. Yeah, okay, and welcome back to MIT. Where do you have a nice stint? all right, so With that Let's close out the morning session Okay, and we're back So there you have it a a star studded crew To be sure and I can I'm giddy. I cannot wait to get into the conversation. I've got a lot of questions You are first. Um, so first we'll take your questions. Go into their session pages. Um pose your ideas and your comments up vote the ones that you think are most interesting and presto change Oh auto magically we will address and adapt in real time So, um, we will send out I think we will shut. I think we should shut this Well, okay quick um quick question from the crew. Should we just go blank on this and keep rolling in the same video? Or should we do a second video for the afternoon for the session in 30 minutes? We're going to send uh, we're going to terminate this broadcast It'll make it easier to watch it later as well not having a five hour honking video Um, so we're going to terminate this broadcast and we're going to go live again at 12 30 in about 22 minutes from now on eastern time Starting up with uh with bill and uh writes expressions languages I might ask that you sort of join the discussion a little bit brian as well because of your depth there an interest So, um, everybody stand by will email and also put in telegram the connection Links for the next sessions. So thanks very much and we'll see you online soon