 The tackling of poverty and rising illiteracy have been suggested as a solution to Nigeria's security challenges. A former presidential candidate of the People's Trust in the 2019 election, Gwinga Olawakbo Hashim, made this suggestion. He expressed regret that the nation has been witnessing an ending sorrow as many families across the country bleed. He spoke on the unrest in Abuja, saying that the plan of the enemy was to take over the nation's federal capital territory. Well joining us to have this conversation is Frances Chilaka, Political Affairs Analyst and Eugene Abel, the Executive Director of the Extra Step Initiative. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. Thank you ma'am. Thanks for having me. Great, I'll start with you Eugene. Let's talk about the education first. Roughly 13 plus million children in Nigeria out of school. We haven't even as much as scratched the surface of our SDG goals when it comes to do with education. And the monies that we set aside every month for our budget, every year I beg your pardon, is nothing to write home about. It's very me guys, unable to deal with anything. So I don't even know if we should be talking about education as a short term or maybe a long term thing to deal with security. Because what we are dealing with now, we need a solution in the interim, but let's start with education. What difference will it make if we decide that we're giving education, free education to everybody, including the bandits who are in wherever that they're hiding? Any nation that does not see education as a mid-term, short-term, and a particular long-term goal and very strategic goal, then that nation is deluded. Back in the 70s, early 80s, we found out that we had Ghanaian and Indian teachers at various levels of our education. I did too. And then, and in particular in primary schools, secondary schools, most of those Indians, some had two PhDs. I found and I asked later, and they were having a very tough time. Their population was blossoming. There were not enough economic activities to support them. But there was an unspoken policy encouraging people to go to school. So they kept acquiring these qualifications and certifications and training. And when opportunity came, when our sourcing came, India was ready because they had qualified manpower. On the Nigerian part of it, that thing we did with Ghana must go. Since we lost those core of teachers, that yearning gap was created. We have not recovered. Now, if you look in terms of United Nations standards, in terms of budgeting, our budget standard does not reflect that, reflect the percentages expected of any reasonable entity like Nigeria. Now, what it simply means that you're grooming a population that will be unprepared for the future. Even when that future comes, even when prosperity comes, they'll be unable to participate because they are not equipped mentally, educationally, even in terms of certification to benefit from that process. And that will lead to chaos for any society. So education is the foundation of any nation. That's what I've said over and over for the first thing I'm saying that our educational system, current assistance is even outdated. This is what we heard there for the cultural structure. The world has moved on to STEM, science, technology, engineering, maths. We need to begin to look in that light. Today, five, seven years ago, if you needed to study for populations in Russia or the Eastern Bloc countries, Ukraine and so on, your school fee is about $12,000. But if you need to study medicine, your school fee is about $3,000. What are they generally, they simply telling you the direction to go. So they have surplus of manpower in that aspect of life, which is very creative, which will always be needed. So education is the primary thing we must invest in after feeding our people. It is very important whether it is former or whether it's informal. It is important to prepare our people to be able to participate in the tomorrow that's almost here. Okay. Let me come to you, Francis. Bigotry is also one of the things that was fingered by the former presidential aspirant. And he said that this is an issue that needs to be tackled for us to make sure that we deal with insecurity once and for all. But then we are, I mean, generally we say that we are a secular country. But then we are very, very religious. And we know that Nigeria is cut across the Christian, in fact, we're divided into Christian and Islam. But then on the next that also we have that issue of ethnicity, which is very pronounced. The lines are not even blurred in any way. And so before we even start to talk about religion here, ethnicity is a big deal. So how do we start and where do we even start to deal with this issue of bigotry? Where we say when people become too religious, they lose the essence of humanity. And that's where the problem of Nigeria lies, right? We are too religious. So we have lost humanity. Nobody cares for the other person. Nobody believes that the other person could be better or could add better to their lives. So these are issues that has affected the psychic of Nigerians. And we need to begin to change that. First and foremost, we have a very weird constitution that seems to support one religion against another. And so people who believe that, okay, they have the monopoly of one religion doing whatever they want to do because the constitution allows that. So this is something that also needs to be looked at, you know, seriously. Then for you to be able to cope what is going on right now, the government needs to think as if there is no box. The government needs to begin to find a way to reorientate the mindset of Nigerians. Country first before individual and start with leadership. The leaders do not believe in this country. I'll say the way it is. The leaders lack patriotism because it starts from them to the people. When they show patriotism, the people will follow. So our leaders need to be more patriotic. They need to be people who speak, say what they want to do and they do it. But what we've had over time is that there's a lot of promises here and there. You know, people just say things, they don't mean them, compare promises I made, nobody follows them up. So the people are getting tired, the people are getting frustrated. And there seems to be no middle point at this time. Nothing to, you know, hold the people. Nothing. The people see nothing to hold on to that makes them proud of as Nigerians. So I think this is where the major problem is. And it starts with leadership. The leadership needs to show that they are ready. They are willing to do certain things that will bring out a humanity in Nigeria. Because Nigerians are loving people. But what we're having today is far from it. I want to pick up from where you stopped Francis and I'll throw it back to Eugene. You said that Nigerians are very loving people and our leaders need to show us the way. There has been this recent hate thing. I mean, apart from the fact that it's been politicised and everything has been called a hate speech. But there is that on the tone of hate right now. There's a mix of dangerous divisions that's going on right now. And then there seem to be people who are adding fuel to the fire and making it bigger than it is right now. Eugene, the presidency had come out, I think the vice president in the midst of all of this, to say that we need to stay united. We need to stay strong together. And just as Francis said, what is the unifying factor? Where is that common ground that we can all find? What is that thing that we can all hold on to as Nigerians and say, this is what makes us Nigerians. This is what will unify us. I mean, away from all of the noise making and all of the politicking. What is that thing that that one thing that can unify us as Nigerians? The greatest mistake that people have made, including me, is that we started listening to our leaders instead of using our heads. It is time for Nigerians to begin to think. It's two years to the presidential elections. So the one of the things the politicians are very smart people and very proactive when it comes for the acquisition of power. And they're also very proactive when it comes when they don't want to deny you of that which is due you. And they want you to begin to think that you owe them a favor instead of them to be seen as your employees. So Nigerians must now deliver themselves like what Bob Manley said and begin to think. Now, what should you know, the thing that she unifies that prior to now, I grew up in Nigeria. I've been, I'm in Abuja and I'll be talking to, I'll remind a couple of my friends how weekends we used to hire school boards and from uni boards. I heard to ABU just to listen to Balao's man, the late Balao's man, late Bala, Mohammed Aysha, Mohammed Patrick Wilmot. ABU was the center, the hotbed, ABU Unicar, where you had escorts as well. You could travel to any part of the country and when you ran out of money, you didn't need to know the next person. He will house you and quarter you and feed you. He was happy to do that. We served in several places. I served in all the documents and legals. So those unifying factors of coordinate for the young people they've not had this open. Oh, I'm in Nigeria. So for those in Nigeria, they they've not had the opportunity of experiencing the things we did. We enjoyed growing up. So we need to understand that these divisions are perpetuated by the political class in order to control the narrative. So from now, you begin to hear things like the full and people are bad people. Ibo people hate reverse people or a job people hate Ibo people. Yoruba people don't like us. That's that you hear all those kind of divisive conversations is to create tension in the system so that the political class comes so that they can be invited to the negotiating table. That's all it is. It's a systemic thing which they have perfected. So if we don't deliver ourselves from this mindset to understand that they are manipulating the narrative and begin to see the things based on religion, based on ethnicity, it is it. And I've said this several that we should even ban wearing of this traditional clothes at National Assembly. Just wear your shirt and jeans and walk in there. What's important is not how you look. What's important is the results which you give for those whom you represent and how accountable you are to them. So the fact what unifies us is our constitution and and I believe that you are you when you understand that you are you are you are you are you are a co owner of Nigeria and that is your duty to look after your fellow Nigeria. That is your duty to to protect your territory. Then we have come to learn because look at where we are today with the issue of banditry and security which we are facing. Twenty years ago it was not possible even today if communities don't compromise and decide to rise up you cannot cross any community to can attack anybody. But they begin to throw things at yourself things to you and at the end of the day you become a victim. Your neighbor has catfires at your house too far. That's the situation which we must deliver our minds from yes we must deliver ourselves from mental slavery according to Bob Marley. Alright Francis the information the transportation minister wrote to me recently just said that we should not blame the APC government for the insecurity that's you know rife in the country as we speak. But then I'm curious to ask how has the government of the day done when it comes to dealing with this issue of insecurity have they done well have they shown that they really mean business and why shouldn't people be pointing fingers at them when we gave them a responsibility to protect and protect us and our property. You know the sad thing about the governance in Nigeria is that sometimes the way our leaders talk you ask yourself if they really talk through what they're going to say and if they understand the emotional blackmail of what they're saying to the people. It's sad that somebody wrote to me a minister of the federal republic of Nigeria so to say won't come out to say don't blame you know the APC government. It's like your father who has not trained his child very well and the father said don't blame me for my child what my son has done or you know what my daughter has done. Unfortunately our leaders are not taking responsibility our leaders should take responsibility it is when we take up responsibility for action that you are able to find a solution to a problem. But when you keep denying and living in denial then you are not able to find a solution. Well looking at your insecurity in the land you'll find out that this government does not seem to have a political will in which to address the issue of insecurity. We have a former army general as the president of this country what do you mean by political will? I mean he was given this job because we have faith in the fact that he has been a major general in the army. Since the second term of this president's there many times have your president spoken to the people. How many times have you spoken? What does speaking to us mean? What would he do for us? I'm playing the devil's advocate. No we need to understand something if something is wrong in a family and the father you know sits back and pretends nothing is happening if the thing would you know snowball into something else? I know what it means. I know what means for a president to talk to the people and if you check to other nations you'll find out that check for instance the American government since Biden came into power he has spoken to the American people close to 20 or 21 times and each time a president talks it's different from press releases because the people know that the man who they have given the authority the mantle of leadership to meet them is speaking to them from his heart and whatever he says at that time becomes a law or when you have a station where all you have from your from our president is a press release which any of his aides would issue out then it seems to have the presidency won by press releases it's not speaking well for this government this government needs to sit back and decide on how best to tackle insecurity because the integration itself if you look at it you'll find out that since the end of the since the end of the end start the Nigerian police seems to have lost out and you know there's nothing being done to orientate the people and to also carry the police along the people now feel that their frustration their anger they take it out of the policemen on the street and the policemen themselves you know right now seem not to know what is going on so it's like we need to begin to people are providing personal security for themselves which is not what governance is all about so the government needs to take a stand if you're dealing with bandits you know that you're dealing with bandits and you go after the bandits well we have to go I think I want to say thank you to you Eugene Abells thank you so much Francis Chilaka we have to go this has been a very interesting conversation let's hope that something good would happen tomorrow thank you Rene well thank you all for staying with us we'll take a short break and when I come back I'll give you my take here's my take I'm sorry if I went into the streets of Nigeria today let's take for example Lagos and I asked the average person what they think about this issue of insecurity and how our leaders are treating it all the answers would be very similar people are tired people are already weary people those who have lost family those who have lost businesses those who have lost their life's work to banditry to herders unknown gunmen I mean in fact it's become a free for all even the robbers have said look there seems not to be any form of security so let's all go to play where does that leave us the average person who does not carry a gun I'm not advocating that we all carry guns but we live in a country where there should be law and order where people should feel safe to drive around at whatever time of the day taxpayers are supposed to be able to enjoy some form of liberty but that doesn't seem to be the life or you know the life that we want today in Nigeria we're all looking over our shoulders we're all afraid who's going to be kidnapped next who's going to be killed next what's going to happen tomorrow our headlines are so terrible negative headlines every single day it's become you know something that nobody wants to look forward to because who knows tomorrow another bad news might come when will these bad stories go off from our national dailies when will we begin to turn on the radio and tv and look forward to the stories that will be reeled out instead of the negatives that's happening now I'm gonna I'm not going to be tired I'll keep saying it mr president when will you wake up to your responsibility and address the people put your foot down we gave you this job because we trusted you how long will we hold out faith and hope waiting for you to do the job that we gave you to do I'm Mary Annacom thanking you for watching