 Thank you. Welcome everyone. This is the first call of the new TSE. Thank you all for supporting my reelection to chair. Congratulations to you to be becoming part of the TSE. I'm very happy that, well, I should start with the mandatory disclosures first. The antitrust policy notice. So these calls are public. Anybody is welcome to join, but there is two requirements to participating in these calls. The first one is to be aware and live by the antitrust policy, the notice of which is currently displayed on the screen if you're joining online, which I think everybody is, and this is to keep us out of legal trouble. And the other part is to live by the cut of conduct, which basically asks everybody to participate in a, you know, decent manner. Don't be a jerk. So there is a link to the cut of conduct from the agenda. Feel free to look at that if you haven't yet. So as I was saying, we have a new TSE. Congratulations again to everybody for joining. This is the new extended version of the TSE. So as everybody knows, I suppose, we had up to now we had 11 seats. And then there was a growing number of working groups and projects. And we decided last year to extend the TSE to in hope to have a better representation of the growing community. And I for one think that it was pretty successful because of course you never know really what you're going to get. But if you look at the numbers, you know, so we had eight incumbents who ran and got reelected. But we got seven new members. And it definitely has improved the mix in terms of representation, diversity in many dimensions, whether it's, you know, gender or geography. And also, you know, in terms of the different projects, the number, if you count, you know, the number of projects, we lost one, I think so too. There is no people from the TSE and the TSE from the sort of project. But, you know, we have other working groups and projects that are now represented. So I think overall, it's definitely, you know, we've achieved our goal. So I'm pretty happy with that. So I had this line short intro for the new members in the agenda. This is just to give a little bit of, you know, how this TSE is functioning for those who may not be as familiar as others. Obviously, there are people who, although they are new to the TSE, I feel like they were already part of the TSE because they have been, you know, pretty active on the TSE goal and it's great. Now they can officially be part of the TSE. But, you know, there are things that are important to know. And I, you know, for one, Arun asked me the other day, you know, how do I bring up new issues and stuff like this? So I thought, okay, I can spend a few minutes just giving you a few pointers. I'm not going to take everybody like through a general tour. It would take too long and it would bore all the ones that already know about this. But, you know, I think the important stuff that you ought to know is, so there's the agenda. Obviously, I always put an agenda together. Practically speaking, I tried to stop setting up the draft around on Mondays so that, you know, I'm done by Tuesday. Depending on how much I have, I may call for agenda items on the mailing list explicitly, but anybody is welcome to, you know, take a peek and, and, you know, add stuff to the agenda if you feel like it. It's probably a good idea to let me know, but I get notified by the wiki anyway. So I will probably see it. And then, and then I post it on the mailing list. I announce it officially on Wednesdays. And as you've seen, for instance, Dan added an item, which is great. It's like, okay, you know, this I don't claim to know the truth on what ought to be on the agenda systematically. So any help here is welcome. And then there are issues. So we use the, the, the, this what we call the decision log to try to capture important issues and decisions on those issues. And so you, anybody can go and create an issue in the decision log that would then appear at the bottom of the agenda. We have some mechanism that includes automatically the list of items that are in the decision log to be discussed. And, and, you know, it's probably a good idea to bring it up. You can just go ahead and put it in decision log. But you know, you may also want to discuss it on one of the calls before you formally put, you know, an issue together in the decision log, because just to see if there is appetite for it, right? Because just because you're interested in something doesn't mean the TSC in general is going to be interested. And, you know, in general, I personally do that. I ask people, hey, there's this issue. Should we do something about it? And, you know, based on whether there's interest or not, then I go ahead and file a formal this issue. And then, and then of course we have the, the GitHub repository. So initially the governance documents were a bit spread around into the wiki. And last year, we created a GitHub repo where we have a consolidated version of the governance documents. It's all linked from the TSC from the wiki. But so when there are decisions that affects the governance, you know, so like if we change the process lifecycle, then, you know, or the other day we added Calvair and in addition to Semvair for releases. And so then we do a pull request against the repo. We say, yes, that looks good. And then we, we merge it and that gives us a consolidated. So the GitHub repo documentation is really considered to be the reference now. So, yeah, thank you for showing that. So that's pretty much it. I mean, I'm not going to go much more into the details. If you have questions, feel free to reach out. Of course, we have the staff like people like Rai, and you know, who are willing, who are very happy to help you, you can also reach out to me or Tracy, who is the vice chair. I should come back to you later for that. And, you know, Tracy has also, you know, she's been around a lot too. So she also has a lot of experience with the way we do things. And I'm sure she can help you as well. You know, if you have any questions as to how to bring up something or how to go at anything that's TSC related. So I hope I didn't want to spend too much time. If there's specific questions, I'm happy to take them now or observations, comments. Thanks, that was good introduction. Okay, thank you. So, you know, I wanted to try to keep it short, but to give at least some pointers. Another thing I do want to, I will explain a little bit more now is the quarterly reports, because people are not always completely sure about how we do this. So we try to, we have tried to streamline the reporting from the projects. One of the, you know, one of the main functions that we have as TSC is to keep an eye on the different projects. I mean, when we have new project proposal, we will look at them and decide whether we want to create new projects, not approve them. But we also keep an eye on the existing ones. And so we have this process of quarterly reports. So we have this kind of rolling window of projects over the year. On a quality basis, each project has to fill out and submit to the TSC a report. Initially, we were doing this and going through the reports, you know, I want to say excruciingly, I mean, it was very time consuming. We did that online during the calls, I mean, and then we decided, okay, we're going to have the TSC members look at those reports offline prior to discussing them on the call. And in an effort to streamline it even further, last year, we decided to, we basically don't discuss them unless there is something specific that needs to be discussed. And so it can be so every time the new reports, I put them on the agenda to highlight the ones that were recently submitted. And so I will point them out. And, you know, the TSC members have to read them and check the box, you know, to acknowledge they have actually reviewed them, you can ask questions in the comment sections on the wiki. But on the call, I will, you know, just say, is there so and the people report, there is a section up in the report that says questions and issues for the TSC. So people make reports on the projects and also have the opportunity to say, hey, there's this thing I would like the TSC to look into, you know, help from the TSC, whatever it is. And so of course, if there are those things in, I will bring them up during the call. So we have a chance to discuss it. And I will ask everybody if there is anything they want to highlight or discuss on the reports. But if there isn't, then we just basically gloss over them during the call. That's all I'm going to say. The idea is that we have these reports done, mostly being managed offline, and to reduce the amount of time we spend during the calls on those. All right. Is there any questions on that? So we have for today, we have actually three reports that were submitted. None of them have a section, you know, I've pointed out anything they wanted to bring up to the TSC specifically. There was a couple of questions. But they've been addressed, I believe, on the reports in the comment sections. So let me ask it again now. I mean, he's there. So Arun, yeah, you posted some questions. Did you get the answer you wanted? I think so, right? Was question answered? There was a follow up required on this through one of the discussions that was on the working group. And I guess Brian pointed out that there is a decision lock pending on this working group involvement, or that still needs to be brought up in one of the discussions. And apart from fabric, I guess I put up one more question recently on Aroha. Over there, I observed few report comments which said that there were two points specifically which I want to bring up. One thing is it says that internship projects were completed, but some of them were not successfully completed. So wanted to see if that is something we need to see further for this year's internship project. Is there any learnings from that, which we should apply? Okay. Okay, but that's independent from the report there, right? Yes. The last thing Arun, I would point out on this one, there was a discussion about sub projects and what fabric has been doing. And I replied saying, you know, when we need a sub project, we just have one of our maintainers reach out to Rye, it's pretty informal. And we create another repo with you know, fabric dash, whatever. My question back was, you know, is there anything written down to formalize that? I mean, I don't want a whole lot of process to get in the way, but we probably should have something written down for what's the criteria and, you know, to create and maintain a new sub project. Maybe it's already written down, I don't know. I don't think it's written down. I know on the Aries and Indy side, we the process is also rather informal, though we usually ask for some consensus out of the maintainers. So just one maintainer asking for it's not enough. We usually all the maintainers know to ask around. And if you don't have three or four that are willing to support it, then we don't go forward. Right, we do discuss it on our contributor and maintainer meetings. And we have consensus there. And then we go ask somebody goes asks and Rye. That sounds about like what we do. I agree with what Nathan said, we don't believe we have anything written down. But I don't care to have anything written unless there's a problem that needs to be formalized. Because I mean, you know, if there's no problem, really, there's no time to solve, we don't have to do anything. I'd rather keep it that way. I see that Brian has his hand up. Yeah, sorry, I didn't want to interrupt others. Back to a ruins question about the mentorships. I think it's worth bringing up whenever we see things in project reports to ask, is this something project specific to talk about in Navy address, or is it something systemic, worth addressing? So thank you, everyone for bringing it up. The mentorship programs always have a bit of attrition. You know, projects won't necessarily get all the way to completion. And we do monitor that as staff, and also payouts to students can be, you know, are often based on achieving my are usually based on achieving milestones. And we will step in and make a judgment call was it the student who kind of dropped out was it that the regional mentor got busy and didn't engage, which means it's no fault of the student. We do we do involve ourselves in those projects. And sometimes they just don't work out. I didn't I don't think there's anything a Roja specific about this about those projects not succeeding. It's just I think the students that were picked did did drop out just in terms of becoming less responsive than they needed to be. So so that's that's it. And we're always thinking about adjusting how we adjust the mentorship programs for the next year. So we're watching that. Thanks, Brad. Thanks. Daniel, I was going to ask you anyway. So go ahead. Daniel. Let me find the mute button. There we go. Okay, I like the idea of the lightweight process. I'm cool with that. One of my concerns, though, is how do I identify a project that's a sub project that's live and kicking versus one that was an experiment and has been, you know, is no longer going concerned. I don't know that any of these are falling into that second category. But having been an open source projects before I know that something that tends to happen, is it sub projects tend to get forgotten about? If I if I could. So we do have if you look at the Hyperledger dash archives GitHub org, you'll see the fate of quite a number of those. And what usually happens is I will see that there are projects that have no commits. And I will ask the maintainers if it's appropriate to archive them. And then if yes, we archive them, we have some that have been in the process of being archived for many months or years. But it's not something that I really push on very hard. That's how it happens. Yeah. And we have a similar process for labs for that matter. So it's very similar. We again, it's not formalized. But I always, you know, I'm always happy when right bring those up, because I'm like, well, it's good. Somebody is kind of looking for those things we need to sweep a bit, you know, do a bit of house cleaning. Does that work for you, Daniel? Or do you think we need to do? Yeah, I think that's great. We just haven't been hit by the please clean up your old moldy project requests from right yet. So you've not been around long enough, I guess, but that will come, I'm sure. All right. Any other questions related to reports, specifically? Hi, it's not a question, but I just wanted to mention that it's Sarah here from the Royal Home Maintenance Team. And I also have Andre here. So if you have any questions regarding the mentorships or anything else, we're here to answer them as usual, when we present the reports. So if you have any like specific questions for us, we're ready to answer. Just just just now. Thanks. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you, Sarah. Another question which I had put in Iroha, but probably this applies in generic. Maybe it is already answered. It's just that I'm not aware of is is so the report also mentions that there is one security audit done and a security issue was identified by one of the user which was fixed in last quarter. Is are these things taken care via the approach on security reporting procedure which is listed out in the web page? Is this being done through that? Or do we need something else around it? Well, if I may. So the feedback that came from the person from the community, it wasn't like a severe like actual security breach. Andre is here to explain the technical details of it, but it was like it seems like security breach, but it's it doesn't seem to be like something severe as far as I understand. And about the security audit, it was arranged by Hyperledges. So it's something that we were thinking they might post somewhere and it's their own like process kind of thing. We are currently in the process of doing that. I typically like to do blog posts and stuff. If you'd like to take a look at it because the the Roja developers were part of it, right? So they were made aware of any of the issues we found as far as I'm aware, Sarah. Yeah, but yeah, I think that it's the oh sorry. I thought the question was about that the results were not posted somewhere, that sort of thing. They haven't been yet because I typically do like a full blog post and everything like that and try to get developers to talk about it. But we can I can throw them up on the wiki like right now. So I think it's not a question for me, but for Arun. Yeah, yeah, I yeah. Okay, I will make sure that we're all up to date. I have a couple of it. Yeah, but Arun, does that address your question? Sure, yes, that answers. Yeah, as long as we keep track of these things, it in kind of it will in a way help us right when we design something new or in kind of it will kind of help us in suggesting something else to a new project. For example, I wanted to make sure that these are documented somewhere. Okay. There's a whole section on our wiki that has all of the audits that have been done for all the projects. I think I'm just behind on the RoHoc because it was just recently completed and we're currently doing a new one for Fabric22, like right now. So if you'd like, I'll send you the link. Just under the hyperledger security, there's a whole section called project audits. If you click on it, there's all of the published audits or all the audit reports published there. Thanks, Dave. I'll look into it. Yep. So by the way, I'm going to let Tracy talk because she has a hand raised, but I should have pointed that out. We have been actually, as of late, we've been using the raise hand feature of the Zoom meeting. So with the growing number of members, it might be appropriate to use it. We're not very strict about it. If you really feel an urge to interject something because it's part of the conversation, you feel free to interject, but otherwise it's probably a good idea to use it so that it allows us to get to where everybody wants to speak with that talking over one another. Tracy, go ahead. Yeah, I was just gonna pretty much say something similar to what Dave did. There's an entire process around security audits when they're conducted. There's a security reporting mechanism as well. I think we have security at hyperledger.org as well as some security features in Jera, maybe issues as well. So there's ways to report security issues such that it's not open to the world. And those audits are done. I can't remember what the exact process is, but it is documented on the wiki, as Dave mentioned. So just FYI, there is process and some good information out there that you can look for. All right, thank you, Tracy. And by the way, one more piece of information. We use the TSC channel on rocket chat during the course to have side conversations sometimes like bring up links and whatnot. We don't use the Zoom chat feature. So with that being said, I think we're done with the reports. Is there anything else anybody wanted to say something about one of the reports? Otherwise, we can move on. So there is always this link kind of highlight, you know, if you want to know what next, what projects is next to report, you can look at the page that's linked for the upcoming reports. So now we are moving to the discussion part of the loosely, you know, call discussion part of the agenda. Sometimes I have a section that's decision where I highlight items that have been basically discussed and they only need to be you know, decided on, but otherwise everything kind of falls into this discussion part, which doesn't necessarily mean a lot of discussion, but anyway. So we have Dan here today who wanted to us to get warmed up on the business of voting. Hey, thanks for the time. I inserted this at the beginning of the discussion thinking that you guys probably want to spend a decent amount of time on the other topics and hopefully this is a fairly brief one for you. Periodically, the working groups will elect new chairs and the process that we had decided on in the past was that the TSC will formally approve those and this is the case for the Diversity, Civility and Inclusion Working Group and if you're not familiar with with our working group, this is our effort to make sure that we're growing a healthy community within Hyperledger that we can all be proud of, we can all be proud of participating in and we are ready for the first transition there and I see Lindsay Noon is on the call and Lindsay has volunteered to take on this role. She started working with us in the working group over a year ago and I think at that point Lindsay might have been with Google still and now Lindsay has her own startup and she brings a wealth of experience with her in this DCI space and importantly a lot of passion for helping continue to grow that healthy community and so Lindsay I don't know if you have anything that you'd like to share with the group. Definitely, good morning and it's really great to be connected with you all even virtually. I have been, you know, as as Jen just said really involved in the Hyperledger community through working with the technology with my own startup but over the course of you know my career in tech really just love to see how welcoming and inviting and innovative the blockchain community has been and so any opportunity to get more involved in that and contribute positively is is a welcomed opportunity and I appreciate it and really look forward to working with you all. All right, thank you, welcome Lindsay. Hello. All right so that's the proposition, the proposal is to approve Lindsay. I don't see any reason we wouldn't do that is there any concerns or anybody wants to comment? Tracy? Yeah, I just uh was curious Dan I don't know if I heard uh the the rest of the DCI working group is behind us as well. Yeah so we've had the last couple of meetings we've been talking about this transition um and they've they've been likely attended meetings but um everybody's been supportive. Thanks. Bobby. Hi everybody um it was my assumption and I could be misguided um from when Solona was around that we in the working groups take a survey of the working group with a question on the survey about the new member um leadership member and the community um responds to the survey and then it's brought to the TSC that's what we're doing um in my working group and if that's not correct um I can just bring the name to the TSC. So I don't know if there's a formal process that I'm familiar with for each working group other than each working group within their own sub community there reaches a decision. Yeah I I think that I just posted a link in the chat because I had at one point thought that as well Bobby um I think we had discussed it but then the TSC decided that it was really just the TSC's responsibility to make that decision so there's a in that link that I posted there's a comment that basically says that the TSC uh will appoint the chair um so that when the chair decides to step down the TSC will then appoint another chair with input from the community and existing chair so that's why I asked the question um about whether or not the the rest of the working group had had the conversation um just to make sure that you know everybody was on board but I don't think there's any formal survey that's required Bobby. Um just one more follow-up is that for co-chairs as well or vice chairs assistant chairs? I don't think we have the answer to that question but Tracy do you? I don't I don't have the answer to that question no. I don't think we ever I think co-chairs were something that were kind of talked about after this process document was created um and then this document was never updated to reflect whatever was decided there but I don't even know what was decided um if that was just a um decision of the working group or if it was uh if it had to come to the TSC. So my my personal bias is to push all these decisions as far to the edge to the people who so that's I I'm totally like let the let the working group do that. I agree I was going to say something like that to us like you know again I don't want the more process than really needed and so um I mean you know based on the text that uh Tracy pointed out thanks for doing this um you know I think we are really in the in the situation where we have so we have input from the community and it's being communicated back to us by the existing chair so we make a decision of the chair and then beyond that we leave it to the chair to figure it out with their working groups. I think that's the answer Bobby. Perfect thank you. Though that did give me the opportunity to remember that part of the transition discussion we had was um wanted to make sure that we invited TSE members to the next uh to the next DCI working group call just so that you guys can get a little bit more involved in and aware of uh what the agenda is for that group and then for those of you who who are new the the DCI working group provided a set of recommendations to this to the TSE and to the board to the community at large uh during the middle of the summer uh and part of those recommendations were that this subject matter should be part of the TSE discussions on a periodic basis rather than um risking having it sort of pigeonholed off to the side in the working group where it doesn't get the the visibility that it needs to be effective so I expect um uh that you'll probably hear more from from the working group in this call and if if some of you on the TSE want to help champion that work by participating with the working group I think that would that'd be great. We even um to Dan's point talked a bit about um having a DCI um sort of champion within the the TCI committee um you know work more closely with us on collaborative projects so that um the real practical and strategic work is um you know ingrained in the conversation and not just siloed off so I definitely um you know as you guys get ramped up and I know there's still probably a lot going on in the background that you have to to land um but would love to to really start talking about how we move those projects and recommendations forward um at a more detailed way. All right and I think you know back to what Dan was saying but making sure the TSE you know keeps an eye on what's going on uh obviously I mean Dan has been quite helpful in this regard to bring up the stuff you know to the to to the TSE and I think as chair you know it's definitely part of your role that would be helpful to the TSE to to to act like as a liaison soldier you know kind of role. Absolutely. So uh back to the decision we have to make a decision I think for this kind of decision I I don't hear any controversy brewing there so I'm happy to say you know I'm proposing to approve uh Lindsay as the you know appointed as chair of the DCI working group in I would like to adjust the show of hand kind of thing oh we can actually do that we've done that in the past let's play more with the yes no yeah I was just gonna I was gonna motion that we vote um I don't know you want to vote how that uh Lindsay becomes the new DCI working thank you so if somebody wants to second that that'd be great second thank you right so I know you can all use the yes and no buttons on the thing to say yes we don't have to have a formal roll call but we can do it this way does anybody object or wants to abstain I don't know what your emoji means Dan yeah I don't know he's clapping and Brian is having a coffee so that's great there's more features to these meetings than I knew anyway I only see green I will declare this past thank you and congratulations Lindsay yeah we had uh we had 10 votes for and that was it that's good thanks all right so let's move on um lessons learned for the TSC election so you know as um I mean Dave was running the show this year and he tried to we had tried to be more organized this year by putting together a plan the staff did you know presenting it to the TSC agreeing to all the deadlines and all that's the steps involved and then executing it of course you know it's they are always bugs and so they've had to go quite a bit of running around trying to patch the holes and uh he my understanding is you know he has been updating the plan to reflect all the changes so that we would have a record of what maybe we did or he did and you know we would be better off for next year this thing comes up every year and we spent an absurd amount of time discussing the process for the TSC election so all of this is try to streamline it so is there anything more that needs to be said on the TSC election at this point in terms of the process Dave do you have anything yeah go ahead I just wanted to say that uh Ry also did a great deal of work to help um behind the scenes and um I think this year went off as smoothly as we've ever seen right um we tried something to be radically transparent with the election mailing list that anybody could volunteer to be on um that was a private mailing list where I tried my best to make sure that all communications were cc'd to that list so anybody on that could see you know inbound requests outbound replies all that kind of stuff so um we did have a little bit of problem with the condorcent tool and my main recommendation for next year is to have the TSC approve us to do you know something different or maybe not even you guys are approving it but you know we'll find something better because the condorcent tools emailing capabilities seem to be um lacking they don't even use de kim or any of the other email deliverability things and so we relied heavily on um sales forces marketing cloud this year to make sure that we got reminders out to everybody because it has much higher deliverability so that is my summary of what I thought went well what I think we can improve on I would really appreciate feedback both directly here or email or whatever I mean your meeting Arno but um uh yeah if you really want to have a deeper discussion on things that went well or could be done better next year um you know find me on chat email me um I'm going to be putting all of the notes from this year including all of the template the email templates and and all that in a post mortem and just put it in a box and put a bow on it for next year um I hope that that will function as a script for next year because I really did write it out like it was you know on this date do this on this date do this right and uh I tried to capture it all on the wiki so yeah thank you that's I think that was the right thing to do and I this exactly what I thought there was a form of script that we would be reusing I from my point of view the biggest challenge seemed to be with people not receiving email despite all the efforts that have been put into getting the right email address for everyone and I think there'll be some discussions that probably need to be uh with regard to you know again who qualifies you know who has become what does it take to become to be eligible to be part of the election process but what is on the his hands his hand raised yeah um first I would like to uh thanks uh Debbie rye and all the team to make the election uh work and uh in my opinion I I think for the next year we have uh two um improvements um the first one it uh I think we should publish the the election information and the process in more places such as those projects mail list and working group mail list and we can ask the working group chairs to help uh propaganda the information too and uh secondly it's related to the time schedule um we should uh refund the election uh time to avoid those overlap with uh holidays you know uh each year for the first two weeks of October it's always the China's national holiday so yeah there's some feedback from the China community that that's my two cents thanks honor okay thanks so I guess we fell a little bit on this and maybe that was sorry I was muted yeah I'm muted speaking to my screen thanks for bringing that about I I think that's a failure on airport and hopefully you know it shows the problem with not having enough diversity on the TSE because we moved it from August to September October because we said hey we all on vacation in summer which you know is not necessarily true for everybody around the world so we should uh that sounds like something we need to maybe look at again everybody loves talking about the TSE election process anyway so I do expect us to spend more time on that um all right so thanks again for all the effort that was put into at least trying to make it better and we'll keep doing that like this makes perfect right um so next on the agenda I wanted to give the new TSE members um these are the non-incumbent people right uh an opportunity to you know share with us if they have any views or ideas and things that we should do moving forward I mean we finished the previous term with a call during which I gave the opportunity for everybody to basically do a bit of a retrospective and thinking about talking about what they thought that worked well and maybe not so well that we should take into account moving forward and so I thought well the new members didn't have a chance to speak up because they were not there so now is your chance if there is anything and you know I don't expect us I don't want us to drill into anything specific now it's just giving a sense if there are things that you have ideas that you know hey is something that I think the TSE should do is you know you can do that now and obviously you we will have to get to those more formally move you know to get them addressed but just to get a general sense if people have ideas and by the way so oh yeah Grace go ahead Hey um I don't have a good idea off the top of my head for what you know things to improve upon but I was wondering have we ever done or has the TSE ever had a survey out to the community asking for feedback on what they would want to see out of the TSE more I know Hyperledger generally does community surveys and feedback but I'm not sure if the TSE has done one I don't think we haven't maybe that would be a good idea yeah that's an interesting idea we to answer your question no we have not done that okay yeah um because yeah getting their feedback and how we're performing and what they want to see out of us over the next year I think would be valuable um for part of it that sounds good yeah thank you Arun hey um thanks for this so I wanted to just bring up one topic um here so um this time it used to be my conflict with my work working meeting so um at my work I have this meeting at the same time so I used to miss out most of this TSE meeting because of it and now I got a chance to attend these meetings and by saying no to work meetings right so it could be the same way for most of the project maintainers um maybe they have conflicts with other things so following up with TSE meetings is kind of difficult for them and at least in last few weeks or last few months I have seen few kind um some miscommunications happening and then I just searched for some other topic and then I came to know like few of the things are even reported and these are publicly being followed by many people around the world so um wanted to see if there is a way for us to improve communication between the TSE and rest of the community in terms of we can focus for now on let's say the only the projects which are under hyperledger and those maintainers if there is a way for us to give those feedback do we want to relook into those process of how we share information or what decisions have been made here should be relayed to everyone over there because it should I feel it should be a two-way thing uh then it should so that that opens up inclusiveness right and that opens up in a way people to give feedback on to the TSE itself for that matter yes thank you for bringing that up I do think you're touching an important point that you know we have touched on before I don't know that we ever really said okay what are we going to do about it per se but I mean I think we have lamented over the fact that we didn't always have as much participation or connection with the even like the the maintainers of the different projects I mean obviously several of us we are you know are maintainers in different projects and so we do act a bit as a liaison with the projects in that regard but not necessarily you know we don't necessarily have as much connection as maybe we should have anybody else wants to comment Daniel I don't know if you have ideas if you want to follow up on that if anybody wants to follow up you just pick up now yeah I mean that was one of the things I wanted to bring up as well is the notion of liaisons because we don't have representation in this meeting from all the working groups and all of the different projects we have it from a lot of them a lot of them we get just by having members of the TSC being maintainers or participants in those projects but like you know some of the working groups have no representation and my thought was we should do two things number one we should probably do a poll of the TSC members and the people who attend regularly of which projects they consider themselves to be participants in and could talk about the ground truth about the project in case we have questions and from that poll we can figure out what holes we have I mean we should consider you know just seeing the holes that might encourage some TSC members to to call into their regular calls just to sit in and listen and see what's going on or maybe consider formally assigning liaisons to those projects to make sure that there is communication that we you know get a better feel about what's going on with it all right sounds interesting good Bobby yeah I think that the meeting recordings are priceless and I know we do that developer newsletter I think that maybe at the bottom if we just put links to all the meeting recordings I know that's a lot of work and I know the learning materials working to attempts to do this to have one spot for people to look to say oh I want to hear that recording this week instead of having to niddle down into the wiki to try to find it interesting idea that's a practical thing we might be able to do so I at one point started posting the TSC recordings to YouTube someone requested that I not because it was it was too easy for reasons they had the reasons I I'm open to publishing those on YouTube or all the meeting recordings to YouTube if that's easier but I think each working group is going to need to kind of come to consensus as to whether or not they're comfortable with that so that's an option okay you can see yeah hopefully you know you guys have more more success here but one of the things that we noted in our recommendations were that we got historically low participation in surveys I think it lingered at around 10 percent and another one of the participants from cloud foundry also had similar results on surveys so ended up suggesting some feedback around alternative methods i.e. interviews directly with people who are more active in the conversation or different outreach strategies that really could collect that the feedback that we're looking for but I don't know the DCI working group seemed to historically really struggle with getting participation rates and surveys that that would indicate a true poll of how the community feels about an issue and I think Dan if you want to elaborate on anything that I might have missed please feel free but I'll drop the link to the recommendations in the chat so everybody can reference it you know but this is interesting I do know that it was difficult to get people engaged in responding to the survey and and you know we have also for instance a maintainer's lease which is dead silence pretty much all the time and when when Bayer seems like you know by accident I want to say you know somebody posts there it largely seems to be ignored and so this is a challenge I think we have and you know one of the one of the things that I took out from the kind of like debriefing we had at the end of the previous term was you know yeah we should work more on creating one community and this also came through at the Hyperledge Summit member summit and few weeks ago and I think that remains a big challenge for us to try to tackle I don't know that there is a magic solution to this problem but we definitely ought to try to do more Bawa yeah that's curious to know what's the number for other open source communities like the giving the survey I'm sorry what are you saying see if there are other communities if there are things we could borrow if yeah Barbara said that we have 10% participant though the survey right and I want to maybe we can compare the number with other open source communities yeah I don't know if we have but this is David I have a thought and I'm sorry I would raise my hand but it's not letting me I guess if you're a host you can't raise your hand perhaps or I can't just just figure it out I mean is again sorry to interrupt but I do have some feedback about how we went about gathering the sort of feedback in other communities we I've done some audits in a couple different communities and you're right survey fatigue is real and it's hard to work around I mean the thing that I've seen and done that has worked really well is more of an informational interview approach because you really beyond just having an opportunity to talk to people you know in a way that gets them to give you feedback which doesn't necessarily happen if you send them a survey they may or may not fill it out and also the open ended nature of it is really helpful I'm going to survey you only get feedback from the you know related to the questions you asked but there may be some you know unexpected things that people could tell us that we wouldn't craft a survey question around so anyway I would have encouraged maybe an informational interview approach and there are a lot of us if every TSC a member for example spoke to just one or two people that's a you know a pretty gets us a lot of good feedback so that could be an approach to you know we could ask each TSC member to reach out to one or two or three people and then we could you know gather feedback and collate it and aggregate it that way so I've seen that work really well informational interviews for on audit and other communities have worked better than surveys all right that sounds interesting I don't want to spend more time on this now but I think this is you know clearly an issue we have to have on our list of things to look further into and I will use that as a segue to get to the next agenda item which I put in which is somewhat related in terms of you know improving understanding of what's going on you know so the you know I talked earlier at the beginning of the call you know about the quarterly reports we have from the projects and you know I said well we're trying to be quick and effective about you know going through those reports and not spending time on the calls but recently it became pretty clear in the discussion regarding transact that a lot of us despite you know going carefully through all the reports that have been posted to date you know we didn't really have a good understanding what was going on with that project and so to me this really meant that okay the quality reports don't effectively communicate to the TSC what's going on so we need to do better at that and we may need to change the template used for the reports and one thing that I think we have now at our disposal that we haven't really been using much is the insights tool that the Linux Foundation has created Rai spent quite a bit of time tuning it to the hyperledger so we have now all these dashboards that give you all sorts of numbers and so what I would like people to consider and you know we don't have to make the decision now we're almost out of time but you know think about it is you know I would like to propose basically that you know all the reports have a link to the latest quarter you know report so there's a URL I put it in the agenda explicitly the whole URL because essentially you can set the you know we can all use the same pattern for the URL that links directly to the relevant data in the in the insight tool for your project so there's a piece which has the project name and then there's a time range and so the idea is you know all you have to do in your report is to change the time range so that it points to the last quarter for your project and it just you know every member can already do that but I'm trying to make it easier for us to have that information really at the tip of our fingers by when you read at the report you have a link to the to the latest data on the project and you can directly find the relevant information and be able to browse through this so that's one idea that I think you know but if anything looking back at I think you know what what we said we should work on it it's one of those things right so I would like us to spend a bit more time on this and if there are other ideas on how to make those reports more meaningful and then you know bringing up the right information I think you know all ideas are welcome and if there's anybody has any reaction in the one minute we have left but we can discuss it further obviously moving forward hot yeah I just wanted to comment that that community bridge information is really useful and I already you know use it to do quarterly reports it makes you know doing the quarterly reports very easy all right thank you okay so we're out of time I just wanted to point out we have two issues that we inherited from the previous term that you know need to be worked on to get better drafted proposals and I'm looking for volunteers if anybody wants to help you can I mean it doesn't have to be formal per se you can just look at the wiki and contribute there either by taking the pen trying to put a proposal together or editing what's there or commenting you know these are anything like this is helpful I always you know I strongly believe making concrete proposals they don't have to be perfect but as soon as you put a proposal on the table we can all look at we can make edit and make progress moving forward and then finally getting to an answer so that's usually the mode of operation I like to use so with that being said I don't want to abuse everybody's time so I suggest we close the call on this I knew we had a full agenda it proved me right but I think it was good I'm happy to work with all of you and look forward to the whole year and so we'll talk again next week thank you all for joining today goodbye