 Tell me your name. My name is P.C. Bruja. And you're with the Hope Collaboratory? Yes, actually I act as a community educator in St. Paul's in the University of St. Paul's in Brazil. And I'm part of the Espers team. And so you created this art? Yes, actually I elaborated this project with the community, with this AIDS social movement, in order to call attention for how we, people that are living with HIV and AIDS, can think of an elaborated stretch there for accessing health services. So I didn't do it by myself, I had a community effort. So this is you? Yes. What is this? That's a beautiful face, it's my face. It is, for positive travesties like me, loving ourselves is also healing. I think it explains because one of the things that I came here to say is that it's very important and we do want to have a biomedical cure, but cure is not only biomedical, AIDS is absolutely politicized and we need to work and to deal with its stigma. Not just the person, but the holistic, the society, the economics, everything. Yes, because the stigma it is materialized, it's not an abstract thing, it's material and it's absolutely interconnected with social oppressions, with racism, with transphobia, homophobia, xenophobia and everything that the AIDS epidemic has already taught us, because when people look at me, for example, or they might look at you as a gay man, for example, they think about HIV in certain ways, they or society expect us to live with HIV. So for people who aren't familiar, can you explain a little bit the travesties? Yes, travesties is a female identity from Brazil and from Latin American countries. It's perhaps in other places or the biomedical, psychiatric and juridical discourse are very much accustomed to call us trans women, but it's something different. But the difference is much more political than anything else. I think it's an attempt to do not allow our identities to be sanitized. It's more something like this and to travesty is a third gender in Brazil. I'm neither a woman, neither a man, I'm a travesty. Okay, that's helpful. I think we need to call attention. Why did I bring all of this? Because we do need to call attention to the necessity of transforming our institutions to and it means also to invest in community, really invest and how can we do it in a capitalist society? It's also with money because we need it for creating our autonomy and we have so many things to offer. We have been elaborating strategies and social technologies for being alive, allowing my presence for example here alive. I don't think people realize also how far Brazil needs to work to get to a place that's acceptable. I think we often associate Brazil with LGBTQ and it's like a good place to go. I think there is a fantasy created in Brazil is something very related to social democracy that absolutely does not exist but it was sold internationally that Brazilian is very acceptable. Many of us are but actually Brazil is very conservative in religions, Christian, evangelical and we have so many disputes and we are still fighting for our rights to be alive in Brazil. You mentioned the life expectancy of a travesty. It's for white travesties, it's something like 35 years and for black and indigenous travesties it's 27 years but there are some activists that are already talking about 22 after the COVID-19 pandemic. You told me this when we were taking a ride to the Gladstone Institute so let me know if you don't feel comfortable talking about it now but we were talking about the stigma and how you do something very bold recently to combat the stigma when the police or government authorities were coming after your community. Yes, I'll share with you because as I told you we elaborate many strategies to be alive and there is a mark and now I don't know if it's correct in English but there's something in our identity that we had to create. It's so attached to HIV stigma that police use it to hunt us in the streets and really hunt in the streets just by justifying that they're going to end up AIDS epidemic so they let's kill travesties then we are going to end AIDS and then we create something that we use it to cut ourselves for not being touched or not being touched so it's really violent and you see older travesties with 40 years something like this that we're alive in 80s and 90s that have those marks that's bizarre something for example I'm not saying it's her case but I like Taís very much because she's 73 years old and she's not white she's absolutely out of the statistics and she's the president of the oldest NGO in Brazil for carrying HIV positive people people living with HIV and AIDS so she's a good reference for all of us that's why she's here. Excellent, well thank you PC for everything that you're doing I'm so happy to connect with you here and for your work in transpology. Keep it up and yeah this is just the beginning we're gonna keep doing everything that we can. Yes thank you so much for the conversation it's really really nice to share to collaborate and let's skip that's it. I think we're gonna have other meetings I think so too for sure we're going to be here we'll meet each other other times