 Welcome to IBM. Oh wait. So I wanted to ask, is there anybody from the real IBM actually with us in this audience? No? Oh, okay. All right, we're good. I can say Okay, but really, welcome to slideshow karaoke. I hear it was really good. All right, what's gonna happen next? So if you actually work for Red Hat, you've probably seen this presentation about a million times. Town hall, another town hall, another town hall. Don't panic. But if you don't work for IBM, for IBM, for Red Hat, who okay, so who here does not work for Red Hat? Oh wow. Oh, that's great. That is actually really great. I'm happy. That's like 50-50. Oh well, you guys are in for a treat. Well, maybe not. So if you haven't been following what's gone on, right, IBM bought Red Hat and the deal finally closed in early July. And that's a big deal. I mean, we've been getting ready for this internally to Red Hat for quite a while. And since a lot of the Red Hat folks work for Fedora and since Fedora is such a big and important project that Red Hat participates in, we wanted to talk a little bit about what that relationship is like and about the impact is what the impact is gonna be like on Fedora. Okay, short answer. Probably not a whole heck of a lot. Okay, you can all go now. Maybe not so much. So IBM acquired Red Hat. They paid a lot of money for Red Hat. This is really great if you happen to be a fan of open source. IBM paid $34 billion for a company with no intellectual property. Right? I mean, how fabulous is that? What does that say about the value of open source? Huge things, good things. What's interesting is that Red Hat is going to continue to operate as a distinct unit. So we don't lose our identity. We don't lose our badges. We don't lose our parking spaces. Yeah, you guys all have named parking spaces, right? Yeah, I know I do. Yeah. Yeah, no. Yeah. In my dreams. Our mission stays the same. Which really, you know, it's a fabulous thing. We've been taken over by the Bourgen yet not, right? We are what is known now as an affiliated company. This is what the legal guys tell me. So that's the official terminology that they use. What does that mean? Honestly, I don't know. Except that I know that it's important when we are looking at some of the standards bodies that we have to deal with and places where IBM also participates in those standards bodies because then we have to negotiate because, you know, if you're two affiliated companies and you each have a board seat, then you get to negotiate what happens. So there's a lot of stuff that's going on as we try to figure out how this is all going to work. But what I wanted to talk about today was what is the impact on Fedora? And here's cut to the chase, right? Red Hat is still Red Hat. Our badges stay Red Hat badges. Our buildings stay Red Hat buildings. IBM badges don't work in Red Hat buildings and vice versa, right? There's not a lot of cross pollination that's going on yet. Maybe over time. But the important thing is that we are affiliated. We are not like IBM. And it's been really interesting to talk with the people who have been part of the so-called clean room as we've gone through this acquisition because IBM, huge company, right? Genormous. And they have their own special team that does mergers and acquisitions because they do so many of them every year. But for the Red Hat deal, that team, they didn't even get involved because this deal is special, which I think is actually interesting because if you've ever worked for a big company, how many people here have worked for big companies, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. You guys know. Okay. But you haven't seen anything yet, right? So I at one time worked for HP when it was, you know, 170,000 people. Big companies, things get lost. They have process for the sake of process for the sake of process because that's all you can do, right? If you don't have a process, nobody knows what to do. So I think it's fascinating that IBM, huge company, was willing to discard their merger and acquisition process in order to do the right thing with Red Hat. So Red Hat is still Red Hat. If you were at the Red Hat Summit this year, I know a lot of you work as I saw you there. You were backstage, right? While Ginny was on stage talking with Jim, our CEO. So for those of you who don't know, Ginny Romady is IBM CEO. What does it mean to be a CEO of a company with 381,000 people? I can't even imagine. You try to put yourself into that position and say, what does that even feel like when you wake up in the morning, right? But Ginny was at the summit talking with Jim, our CEO. And I know some of you were like backstage while all of this was going on, right? Waiting to come out and fire T-shirt cannons to celebrate Relate release. That was really good. But Ginny, my favorite quote, I don't have a death wish. She just spent $34 billion to buy Red Hat. That's not like buying shoes, you know? It's not like I have a death wish over $34 billion. Not like I'm buying them to destroy them. This gives me hope. I think that Ginny knew exactly what she was buying. I would also be willing to bet that a lot of the other people at IBM had no clue. And probably still are just learning about what does this really mean? But if you go out on YouTube and look for the Red Hat summit talk from which this quote comes, there are some other really interesting things that Ginny said that day. She said that we're on a mission together now to scale open source. She gets the mission, right? And for Red Hat, you know, without really deep pockets, it's really hard to do the level of investment that you need to grow. And so for Red Hat, this works kind of nicely, we think, because there's a lot of synergy between the two companies. IBM has been a partner of Red Hats for many years. And so you guys know, right, how much IBM has contributed over the years to Fedora? Yeah? I mean, Fedora builds power. Fedora builds IBM mainframe, System Z. We didn't do that work. IBM did that work, right, along with some help from our friends. So they've been with us all along here. But that actually comes back to another thing that Ginny said during this talk, talking about open source. And what I like is that she gets it, because she said, if you're going to take, you have to give. Which are also actually fabulous words to live by for life in general, right? But it's really important if you're an open source company. You can't just take, you have to give back, and you have to think about how you're going to do that. And over the years, we've actually seen IBM do that in many different upstreams. I mean, starting with things like GCC. So I'm optimistic, because I know that Ginny gets it. And if you see EO gets it, then there's a chance that it's going to trickle down, right? But I also am 100% certain that everybody doesn't get it. But the deal is that Red Hat is going to remain independent and neutral. So when you think about it, it makes perfect sense, right? If you have to partner with somebody in order to get your changes into the kernel, in order to get work done in support of your customers, you have to trust. So Red Hat is an arbiter, right? In many cases, in some of the upstreams that we're in. And we represent the interests of our customers, and we also represent the interests of our partners. We partner with lots and lots and lots of hardware vendors. Intel AMD ARM, oh, IBM, Dell, Lenovo, HP, Melanox, Solar Flare, right? Cloud providers, Google, Amazon. If you're going to partner with people, companies like that, if they're going to trust you, you have to be trustworthy. You have to maintain confidentiality. You can't share information about what's going on at Google with the folks at Amazon. You have to maintain, you can't tell the Dell folks what HP is going to ship next week. So you have to be a trustworthy partner. And IBM totally understands that Red Hat's value lies in being a trustworthy partner. If our partners can't trust us, then there goes $34 billion. And you might as well just set flame to the money, right? Although that would kind of be a big stack. So you'd need an incendiary bomb, right? So Red Hat has to remain independent and neutral. Actually, we've worked with IBM over the years. Where's Peter Robinson? Oh, he's sleeping it off. Okay, he's been spotted. He was reminding me the other day of how IBM worked with him during the days of Fedora 22. So in Fedora 22, they were working on their Power 9 hardware bring up. So they were doing, they had a simulator for their hardware and they were taking snaps of raw hide every day and using that for their hardware bring up, which I think is a pretty interesting indicator of how long they've participated in Fedora. Well, Dennis will tell you, right? Didn't you set up the infrastructure? Yeah? Yeah, they provided a lot of hardware to the builders over the years. They provided hardware to the universities in Brno so they have open power, right? So they've been a good partner all this time. And so I know that at least parts of IBM understand how open source works. Of course, the issue with a company of 381,000 people is that the parts of IBM that we've worked with are probably not the biggest parts of IBM. And so there's gonna be a learning curve here for everybody. And that's just the way big companies are. So Red Hat, independence, neutrality, right? We're not gonna, we're not gonna trash that investment. These slides are the official marketing slides to some extent, as you can maybe tell. Because the messaging is important, right? This is a real big deal. And they need to make sure that we hold to the party line. So you guys are all sworn to secrecy. Oh, wait, no. No, wait a minute, we're open. So what about Fedora? Will anything change? Who here is afraid that something's gonna change? Look, an honest man. Yeah, yeah. You know, I think the operative question is, will anything change because of IBM? Right? Because things change all the time. I've seen Fedora for 11 years. Some of you guys have seen Fedora for a lot longer than 11 years. How many changes have you lived through in Fedora? Yeah, all of them. Yeah, yes, Stephen. Well, so an interesting thing for me as as I put these together, these slides together, I started thinking about all of the changes that Fedora has gone through just in the 11 years that I've seen it, right? I've watched things like rings morph into modularity now moving into minimization, right, as we think about the too fast, too slow problem and experiment to try to find approaches for dealing with that. I got thinking back to the days when I first saw Fedora, where it was all about spec files and packaging. And the packaging committee was God, right? And it was really hard to get any changes at all to happen for the best possible reasons. And from really good motivations, right, people wanted to reduce risks, people wanted to, to make sure that continuity was preserved. But when you don't change, or when you fight really hard not to change, then you actually introduce the biggest risk of all, which is the risk that you're going to be disrupted and become obsolete. And so I think that it's really great for me to see how Fedora has changed over the years and become a lot less risk averse, and a lot more willing to contemplate changes and to be more experimental and to try the things that we've needed in order to remain an important distribution. So that's been a great thing for me to observe. And I know that's been hard on a lot of people over the years, right? But it's, it's wonderful to see how people have adapted to many of those changes. I couldn't, well, all right, I was debating whether I should even say this, right? But I can remember the days when Fedora de Vellist was scary. Yeah. Yeah, you guys remember, right? Remember when the Nome team didn't talk to the Fedora team? And a desktop change would come sweeping in and it would land like a boulder into the middle of a swimming pool. And the ripples would be felt on Fedora de Vellist for months. Pulsario. System D. Yeah. Yeah. So those days are long behind us. I mean, I think it's safe for 12 year olds to read Fedora de Vellist now, right? And, you know, it's a much nicer place because everybody has said, wait a minute, I don't want to work that way. I'm willing to change. So the reason I go into all of this is because change, change is going to happen. Change is actually a good thing. Change really is the only constant. And Fedora has been changing constantly for many years. You know, it's not always steadily up, right? Sometimes it's a step function. Right? Sometimes, you know, what is this saying, you have to kiss a few frogs before you find your prince? Well, okay, we've met a few frogs. It's not, it's, you know, but you have to be willing to try. And this is a thing that I think IBM understands, right? There is no expectation of perfection. Perfection is stasis. Perfection is death, right? You've evolved into such a perfect niche. You've cornered your market on obsolete. So I hope Fedora is never perfect. Because I want Fedora to remain alive and vibrant with challenging ideas and new things to try, right? Remember when cloud images came in? Think about atomic. Think about how Project Atomic, CoreOS, two kind of competing technologies trying to solve the same kinds of problems. Now we've got Fedora CoreOS that's taken good features out of both of those projects, and is moving forward with it. And this, this is what we want. Look at the desktop, right? Look at silver blue. It's fascinating. It's exciting. Flat tax. So this is an era when change is rolling over us. We're riding the wave. And I don't see, so here's, I was thinking about, in my worst possible world, right? What happens when IBM takes over? Oh my God. Some financial genius who thinks he's a technologist at IBM, this is my worst nightmare. Financial genius thinks he's a technologist says, well, upstream. Why are we supporting upstream? We don't need no stinking upstream. That's expensive. Hey, I think we can do a commercial rock solid enterprise class distribution without all that messy upstream stuff. So what do I think the odds are that this is going to happen? Not just 80-20 rule, right? We're talking vanishingly low. I'm saying like, we're at zero with that one. Here's my other worst nightmare. 381,000 people who want to be our new best friends. Okay, maybe 200,000 of them are sales dudes, right? So all right, we're gonna, we're not gonna count the sales guys, that's still 181,000 people with the technical clue. And I know IBM has a lot of smart technical people, right? Because I've hired a bunch of them. I'm sure we've got escapees here, right? But I know they've got really good smart technical people. They were where from IBM, we want to help you. So that is actually for me, a thing that we're gonna have to be cautious about, right? It's a whole different world. Because what does 381,000 people really mean? This looks like the Death Star, right? But 381 at IBM, 14K at Red Hat, maybe 1000 really active fedora contributors were outnumbered. So what I'm hoping for and what I believe is gonna happen is that IBM is going to, they're gonna get excited, right? I mean, if you're at IBM, and they've bought Red Hat, and it's the best thing since sliced bread, what are you gonna want to do? I want to go where the action is, right? I want to go work in an upstream, you bet. Can I please? So I think that we're gonna see more of them participating with us. And it's gonna be something that will manage. Because I don't think, you know, 181,000 of them are going to show up overnight, they've got day jobs, right? Just like us. I think that there's an opportunity here for us to have more participation. And we should be thinking about if they're going to participate, what, what would we like, right? Where can they help? Other than in power and Z hardware where they've always participated. I'm sure that there are projects that could use a little help. But, yeah, so, so, you know, it could go, I mean, it could be really a good thing for Fedora, as long as we're not overwhelmed. And that's why we just, but it's going to be really hard to overwhelm Fedora, I think. When we see those IBM addresses start showing up on Fedora develop list, right? But here's the really interesting thing for me. So I was watching and ask me anything with Chris Wright, who is Red Hat's CTO. And somebody asked Chris about Red Hat's policy for contributing to open source projects, and whether that was going to affect IBM's policy. And Chris Ferris, who is IBM CTO for open technologies, you didn't know that role existed, did you? I didn't either. So Chris Ferris jumped into the discussion and told everybody something that I find personally really exciting. He said that after the acquisition, IBM changed their policy for their engineers about contributing to open source. So now, yes. Yeah, go IBM. So now you don't need permission from IBM to work on open source technologies in your spare time. Just like Red Hat's always been. And I think that's a great promise. That is a step into a whole new world for these guys. So that gives me hope, right? Because IBM didn't have to do that. I mean, it would have been, you know, all of the IBM technical guys would have wanted to move to Red Hat. But at least I would have. But, but IBM didn't have to do that. And I'm really glad to see them thinking that way, because they see this acquisition as a way to move IBM. Well, not into this century, right? Because IBM has a fabulous research arm. And they are doing really, really, really interesting things look in way out in terms of where technology is going. But they're going to bring more of that to the world of open source. I mean, they've got quantum computers up and running, right? How cool is that? So, so this I think is going to be really encouraging. If I were a regular IBM guy, I would be looking at this saying, go. In the meantime, Red Hat's relationship with Fedora doesn't change, right? Red Hat depends upon Fedora. I hope this is not news to anybody. Yeah, without Fedora, we don't have rel and without rel, we lose a huge amount of revenue and you know, yada, yada, yada, right? So, so because Red Hat depends upon Fedora as well, we put our money where our mouth is. Open source. If you don't give, you don't get right or at least that's the way that it should be. And so Red Hat contributes a lot to Fedora. So how many of you are from Red Hat here traveling on Red Hat's travel budget? Yep. Yep. How many of you does Red Hat pay to work full time on Fedora? Yep. This is good, right? This is the way it's supposed to be. So I don't see any of this changing because it's a synergistic relationship. It works well for both sides. At least I hope it does. And for the non Red Hat part of Fedora, I hope that you see it working. Because an open source community really needs to be a community. It can't just be one big gorilla. Yeah, it needs to be partnerships. It needs to be, you've probably seen the proprietary company model of doing open source. You take your big blob of source code. And one day, it goes out to GitHub. Surprise. And now you're open. You got a community, right? Oh wait, no. But that's the way that a lot of proprietary companies have seen open source over the years. And that is not the way that Red Hat operates. And that's not the way that we're ever gonna operate. Yeah, so I should say, as God is my witness, right? I'll do that gone with the wind thing. But Red Hat depends upon Fedora. It's not a real presentation unless you get to say hybrid cloud. I am totally buzzword compliant. So the innovation engine for hybrid cloud is Linux. Yeah. But of course, I mean, Linux is what's underneath all of the hybrid clouds. Well, most of them, maybe not a sure, right? But I mean, KVM is underneath Amazon, right? KVM is underneath Google KVM is underneath Alibaba. And Linux is the main workload that's riding on top of those clouds. That's what people, those are the workloads that people are bringing into those clouds. So this is where it's all happening. And that's great, right? Linux is clearly the superior operating system for hybrid clouds. But and, you know, I know you guys know this, right? I'm sure nobody is surprised by this, right? Fedora is the upstream for RHEL. No Fedora, no RHEL. Just doesn't happen. And, and RHEL is where Red Hat makes its money and RHEL is what helps Red Hat survive. So guess what, you guys are really important to Red Hat survival. Yay, you. And how important is that though, really? Not just to Red Hat survival, but to the world in general. We did a study with Gartner. They took a look at a bunch of customers. They were focusing specifically on customers who run RHEL because you know, Red Hat was paying for the study, right? That's what you get. But, but they looked at those customers. And they realized that if you're running RHEL, collectively, they saved $7 billion because they were running RHEL. And I think that that's a pretty big impact. I mean, I would take $7 billion at, right? $7 billion. I think that's pretty impressive. But then you look at what those customers were doing, right? And look at what people are doing with Fedora. Look at what people are doing with CentOS, right? They're running the accelerators. Science is powered by Linux. Science is powered by open source. Medicine is increasingly powered by open source and the innovation that comes from it. Open source is going to change the world. IBM gets that. And that's why they want to partner with Red Hat. And that's why Red Hat needs to be connected the way that we are with all of the upstreams that we work with. Oh, and you know what? Another reason why Fedora matters is it used to be that Red Hat had to go to customers and say, hey, this open source thing. It's really great. You're going to love it. It's not like that anymore. Customers come to us now and say, Red Hat, you guys do open source, right? We want open source. Some of them are not too sure what open source is, but they want it. They know they want it. Look at Stack Overflow, right? Developers want to work in the open. They want to work on open source projects, and they want their code to be out in the open because who wouldn't, right? Your CV is there for every potential employer to see. Yeah, I want to work in open source. And so the world is changing and it becomes increasingly important. And our customers are telling us that it's important because our customers are another place where Red Hat actually in a really different kind of model goes out and partners. I mean, we do development with our customers. Our customers, right? I'm sure that there are more of our customers here, but at places like the Red Hat Summit, the customers come up and tell us the stories of how they've worked with Red Hat to get changes done upstream to make their projects work, and how they increasingly are looking to the culture that comes along with open source to change the way that their companies operate internally in order to be faster, in order not to get disrupted, in order to be part of the new world. I mean, do you wonder why IBM wanted to buy Red Hat? And the opportunity that we look at is going to be really interesting because Red Hat, 40 countries, right? And 40 countries, that's still, that's a pretty big international footprint. IBM, 170. I mean, they're in countries I can't even spell. And so that, you know, it's a bigger world. We become part of a much bigger world. Here's the deal for IBM. IBM products are going to run better, they're going to be optimized to run better on Red Hat infrastructure. Gee, what's the basis of Red Hat infrastructure? Well, well, where does well come from? Well, Fedora, right? Here's another one that I really like. Red Hat has always participated in stem initiatives. Things like Colab, things like the Woman and Open Source Awards. We've tried to do a lot, but, you know, 14,000 people today, right? Our reach is not that big. IBM is doing some amazing work. They've got this thing called PTEC, Pathways in Technology, where they take kids in what in the US is ninth grade. So I don't know what is ninth grade, that's 13, 13 years old. They take them out of at risk neighborhoods, right? Demographics, inner cities, places where these kids might not have a chance, places where, you know, 50 years ago, they might have been able to go get a manufacturing job at an automobile plant, but those jobs don't exist anymore. Those jobs are all robots now, right? Even office work is increasingly automated. And yet we've got an entire, I don't want to say underclass, right? But we've got a bunch of people who don't have a good way to participate in the economy that we collectively here are all part of because we work in technology. So IBM's got a program that takes these kids and spends some, gets them for six years, and puts them into an intensive program that takes them through high school and two years of college and gets what in the US is a two year college degree, it's called an associate's degree, and gives them paid apprenticeships in STEM, in computer science, in hardware design, and helps take these kids who are at risk and get some into the modern world. So for me, that's a really exciting thing, right? And I want to be part of that. I want the ability to do more there. So for me, that's that's another really fascinating thing that comes out of this acquisition. And I hope that you guys are excited about it as well. Because I think it's all an opportunity for us to do good. And that matters. So anyway, Fedora, Red Hat, IBM, I think it's got promise. Don't panic. Cautiously optimistic. I think there is a way ahead. And it won't always be smooth. And there will be bumps in the road, right? But, but we'll cope with it. Change is a good thing. We can do this. Questions? Or who needs coffee? No question. Steven. Oh, that is a great question. Steven wants to know how Fedora can participate in PTEC. I don't know yet, because we're still looking at what that means. So the Lyssa has been working with that side of the IBM house. The Lyssa Alexander, who is our chief people officer. And I need to catch up with her and figure out how we can participate. But I agree, Fedora would be a fabulous spot for something like that. Yeah, believe me, I'm going to figure out a way to make the connections. Yes. Oh, can we host community events in IBM offices because they have them all over the world in places where Red Hat doesn't have offices? I think that that is an idea with a lot of potential. And, and what we need, I think, to make that happen is to get connected with the IBM people who actually work in those offices. And I don't know yet how we're going to do that. But I expect that we're going to over the next year or so figure out how to do that. And figure out how to get those people involved in Fedora and some of the other upstreams. A lot of those offices, I would expect are sales offices, because that's typically the way that it goes. And our people often, if they're in that country are working remote, they're working from home. So we got to figure out how to make those connections. And this is, you know, ask me in a year. But I'm glad that you're thinking about it, because that's a great idea. Yes, sir. So what is this going to mean for open source generally? Let me see if I can paraphrase this correctly. It feels sometimes that open source is exploited, and that people take advantage of other companies take advantage of others contributions into the world of open source to make a product and a profit, and they don't give back. And does this relationship change that equation? I think so, there needs to be more recognition over all that you've got to share, right? I mean, I think Ginny said it, you have to give in order to get. And so I know that IBM sees that. And I know that they contribute in a lot of upstreams. They talk about Istio and Kubernetes, right? And they get that if you don't contribute, then you're viewed as a parasite. I would say that a lot of other companies aren't there yet. And in some ways, it's a management education function, right? You have to see open source as more than a pool of free labor. It has to be something that you're committed to, that you recognize how it works, and you're going to be a full participant in the communities. So yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think that that's an interesting space to watch. And it's going to be something that we can maybe influence going forward. And I don't want to say shame companies into, right? But I mean, people, you know, people freeload all the time, right? And it's just, it's just sometimes a thing. I think we just have to try to ourselves make sure that we're not doing that. And IBM from what I've observed is pretty good about it. And Red Hat, I hope in the communities that we participate in is also good about it. But we can always do better. Pierre, say that again. So how do we onboard new contributors from IBM into communities where Red Hat already has a big presence? A lot of times they're already there, right? So, you know, they work in the kernel, they work in GCC, they're working in Kubernetes upstreams. They actually have had people, you know, they've been here in Fedora, right? I expect that it's going to be like anybody else. The deal is that because we are affiliated, we have to be neutral. So we have to treat IBM the way we treat other partners. And that's going to be an important thing, because if we don't do that, if Red Hat gives IBM some special status, then why would Dell want to work with us, right? Why would Intel want to work with us? And so we have to be careful about that. However, I think that it's important that everybody who wants to work in open source have an easy on-ramp. That's why I think the Ask Fedora page, right, the work that's been done there, where's Matthew? Yeah, I think that that page, the improvements that have been made there are a really good thing. And we want to keep, so I was telling them, I've got to find them some website help. We have a plan. I don't know if it's a clever plan, but it's a plan. But yeah, we've got to make the on-board easier for everybody. Dennis. Yeah, so is IBM's R&D team going to be interested in using Fedora as the basis of some of the new stuff that they're working on to come up with their new products? And yeah, honestly, I would be shocked if they weren't. But that's not something that we're actively reaching out to them to do. I think that that's going to be one of those, please don't overwhelm us. But if you're an IBM R&D developer, and IBM just bought Red Hat, what are you going to go look at? And we already know, right, they used Fedora, they used Rawhide for the Power 9 bring up, right? There's precedent there. I see no reason why that would change. I don't know how we're going to adapt to quantum computing. That's going to be pretty interesting. But Matthew, yes, did everybody hear that? You want to say that into the mic? Someone from IBM Research saw all the tweets during the Facebook presentation yesterday, and commented on Twitter that the trajectory of Fedora at IBM Research looks kind of the same way of Fedora going up. And then he sent me a very long email this morning, which I sent back a, this looks awesome, can't reply, talk to you next week. But I think we've got a lot of possibilities for collaboration there. So pretty exciting. That's great, like welcome to the family. And it's not going to be a dysfunctional family picnic, right? I say yes. In the back, yeah. Oh, yeah, so that's interesting, right? So the comment is that IBM's cloud has instances of power and Z out there for developers to use to to start working on, right? Because of course, you got to have you get it's no good without the applications. And so can we have some fresh instances? Can we should we put rawhide out there? Oh, no, maybe not. Yeah, I think that's a great idea. And I would, I would be shocked if that doesn't start happening of its own accord. But if it doesn't, then I think we can reach out and find those folks and maybe make that happen. Yes, sir. So how will Fedora build trust in the world of the hybrid cloud across multiple clouds? Well, you know, Red Hat's official answer to that is OpenShift, right? And it's the platform for deploying and managing and building in all your containers. And Fedora is based on CoroS and CoroS is based on rel and og Fedora CoroS, who would think? And so I think that that's the path that we're going to take in that world, right? I think Fedora CoroS is going to be a lot of fun to watch. I'm really glad to see that that's finally a real thing. I'm looking forward to more. I mean, the other thing that's going to be interesting is the world of IoT and the Edge, right? And Fedora is going to be leading the way there. Sorry. Is IBM going to invest directly into Fedora since Red Hat is remaining independent? Well, they've already invested in Fedora over the years because, you know, as, as Dennis has said, right, they've donated hardware into the build, to the build route, which is great, right? Because otherwise we wouldn't have power hardware because we could have never afforded it. We would, we certainly wouldn't have access to a Z. Oh my God. So I would expect that that level would continue. And I don't know what else they might want to do. What I would hope for would be more volunteer opportunities for some of their really good engineers. Because as I said, they do, they have some great engineering talent. They're really impressive. And so it's, it's going to be interesting to see how their people decide to participate, whether they're going to show up with a big bucket of money. You know, it would be nice, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Because nobody's got big buckets of money to give away for the most part. I wish anybody else going once, going twice, coffee.