 So we are here today to talk about how to empower your clients to use their websites and client-proof them at the same time. And just a little bit about me. So I have been using WordPress, I think I put 10 plus years because I counted wrong, about 10 years, so almost 10 years actually. I founded WordCamp Rochester. I went to WordCamp US in 2015 and I said to them, I'm a little nervous, I don't know if we have a big enough base, what do I have to do to start a camp? They said, let's just do it. I said, all right, so we had our first WordCamp Rochester and we are having our fourth or fifth one this year, so that's kind of exciting. I am launching a new podcast called WP Coffee Talk and I want to talk to WordPressers. Regardless of what you do with WordPress, I would love to get your story out. So visit wpcoffeetalk.com and it's just one of those things where I want to interview people all over the world and talk about WordPress, so feel free to hit that up. I'm an author, blogger, serial volunteer, yada, yada, yada, you don't care about all that. So I will say I have a shameless plug. I did write a book called A Good From Handshake and Other Essential Business Tips. I have two copies here today and the first two people who either send me, tweet me, so tweet out and at me in it, at Michelle Ames, you can see it right there. The first two people to either send me a great tip regarding empowering your customers or your clients or ask a great question. The first two people to do that can find me at the after party. I will autograph a free copy of the book for you. So I have them with me. If you're interested in a book, I've got them. So empowering our clients to use their websites, but also client-proofing the websites at the same time. What if I told you it was possible? It really is and you have to excuse me. My glasses fog up because I get so excited when I present that I suddenly can't see and it's like you're all in a fog. So we have a spectrum of clients, right? We have the clients that don't know how to use their phone. I have clients still that would show up with a flip phone and say I really don't know anything about the computer. I love how when they sometimes call the internet the computer. If they call the internet the computer, you can basically build whatever you want and they will be happy. You can take three hours though, the crappiest site you've ever seen and they're like, I'm on the internet and they're so excited. And we love those clients because I could build, I mean, I never build a crappy website on purpose. On occasion I may have done it accidentally. But you could build almost any site and they're just so super thrilled with it. I love those customers. They ask you how, like how they, you spell your name for the check and hand it to you before you've even built the website. Then we have those customers on the other end of the spectrum who say to us, well, I could basically do this for myself but I just don't have the time. And I'm thinking to myself, well, I don't, I'm not an accountant, you're an accountant, so you want me to build you a website for an accountant, I don't do accounting. I specialize in what I specialize in. I admit that I don't do accounting. You could look at my bank account and know that I don't do accounting. But they should be able to say to, I'm hiring you because I want somebody who specializes in what you specialize in, not because I don't have the time to do it. So those are the people though that we have to be a little more wary of because they're going to nitpick every single little thing. Then there's the customers in the middle in that sweet spot who are teachable, who want to learn, who understand basically what they want. They know a little bit more about their customers. They can have a little more input in the design. They can actually send you content that you don't have to write for them. And they could really kind of direct you. And then maybe they want to do some things on their site too, like write a blog post, upload photos, things like that. Those are the people that we can really empower to use their websites the right way because they have the right heart in it. They have the right attitude approaching it and they're teachable. But it does take a little finesse because it is a little bit like herding cats to get them to understand what it is that we're going to teach them. So today we're going to talk about what is the appropriate user level, how to make them listen to us, how to give them instructions, the layers of learning that are necessary, finding good resources, proper warnings, user manual and FAQ, good plugins, and then how you charge to fix it once they break it because they will break it. So what's an appropriate user level? So what do they want to be able to do? What do they need to be able to do? Will you still be involved? So is it one of those things where you sell the site, you hand it over, they delete your username, and you're done. Or are they going to be keeping you on somehow, whether it's under a contract, whether it's like call me if you need me, or you're going to be maintaining their site ongoing. And then who in the organization needs access to be able to do what they is that they want to accomplish? So when I say that, the reason I'm asking that is do we really want to give them admin access? I'm building a site. I'm handing it off to them. They have their own hosting. They don't want to buy my maintenance programs. They don't want to do anything. If they need me, they'll pay me an hourly fee. Then I'm probably going to delete my admin access so somebody else has to have admin access to the site. So regardless of how good they can manage their own website, they have to be given an admin account. Don't ever make it admin. You know that, right? Make it an actual name. Not admin, password, one, two, three. Because that's what they'll do. You actually have to make sure you tell them that too when they create user accounts that it should be something, people can't guess how to use. But what is their level of want and then what is their level of need? So if they say I want to be able to do everything, let them define what everything means. Do they actually want to be able to change themes? Do they actually want to be able to upload plugins? Do they want to do their own updates? Do they want to update plugins and themes on their site or do they really just want to write a blog post, add an image or two, change the phone number, be able to say that they're closed on Saturday. Those are the things we have to ask to get down to the nitty gritty of what do they actually need when they tell you what they want? Because they could mess things up, right? I mean, I can't tell you. When I first got into WordPress, a friend and I started a nonprofit organization in Rochester, New York, that's where I'm from. We said to her husband who built websites, you need to build us a website for this nonprofit. And he said, no problem, I'll build a website. We were like, yeah, we're getting a website for free. So he builds the infrastructure, he sends us logins, he's like, okay, I built it, now you have to populate it. And we're like, whoa, wait a minute, what? I don't, what, you know? And so I logged in and I was afraid to click anything. And it was my first WordPress site ever logging in. I was pretty much terrified to touch anything because I thought anything I did could break this site, could delete things that should be deleted. Now of course I know now WordPress is much more robust than that, it's easier to fix than I thought it might be easier to fix if I deleted a page, for example. Oh look, there's the trash, I can undelete it. But at the time I was terrified. Unfortunately, I had to get over that fear because we weren't gonna send him text and have him populated into the site. He wasn't interested in doing that for us. And this was back before mobile at all. So we didn't even have smartphones. So luckily the site doesn't exist anymore. Or you'd start pulling it up on your phone and be like, why are we listening to her? She doesn't even design for mobile. But at the time I started playing around with it. I started adding pages. We started blogging and putting posts out there. I uploaded images at way too high a resolution I might add, then I learned how that meant to redo that. Oh, it doesn't need to be 5,000 pixels wide at 300 DPI. Another thing to teach your clients, by the way. And so we started to learn what that meant to use WordPress. And that's how I learned that if I could be trusted with a website, knowing nothing at the time, I can certainly teach other people how to use it in a way that they can understand that they can use their website without breaking it. However, that doesn't mean that they can't break it if they poke around in too many places. Because let's say you're using a site builder, like Divi or Beaver Builder or anything, and they go in and they decide they wanna play around with what other themes might look like. They're gonna click a different theme and suddenly it's not gonna look anything like what they expected it to, and all panic is gonna ensue. And it's gonna be at Friday night at seven o'clock at night and you're gonna be starting to get those phone calls. So you wanna make sure that you're giving them access to what they actually had access to. And then you need to make them listen. So if they say somebody here needs admin access, that's fine, but listen to me and listen to me well because you need to understand where the limits are. So it's not easy to break a website, but it happens. Who here has never ever on a website they dealt with seen the white screen of death? Couple people, that's great, because guess what? It exists. I redeployed a site that I built years ago, Amanda and I are working on a new site soon and I thought, oh, this is really similar to when I built before, so I don't have to start from scratch, I'll just redeploy the site from three years ago. So I did, and it was white screen right for the beginning and I was like, well, this isn't good. Luckily I could log in and once I updated my plugins and my theme and, oh yeah, WordPress, it worked like it was supposed to again, which was wonderful, but the first thing it was I was like, so of course before I started playing with it, I deleted the whole thing and uploaded it again because I figured maybe I used the wrong backup. Of course it did the exact same thing, so do the same thing, get the same response as the office is what insanity is. I had a little moment of insanity, but I made it work because I thought I can be smarter than this and I can figure it out, but your customers don't know how to be smarter than that and figure it out and so you are the person getting the phone call and if you don't turn off your phone, you're going to be the one getting the phone call when they're playing with it after they get done at work, which is gonna be nine to 11 o'clock at night if they're also entrepreneurs. So make sure they understand that it is possible. They're not gonna break it by putting in a new phone number, they're not gonna break it by changing the hours in the footer, but that if they start playing around with the editors and changing themes, that things could go south very quickly. So explain what areas they should be involved in. They can play with pages, they can play with posts, they can upload media, that's fantastic. Let them have that experience and power them to do those things, but then also explain what areas they should consider off limits. It used to be that there was no warning on the theme editor. So you'd go to the theme editor page and it didn't say, whoa, are you sure you wanna do that? You would have to click a box. We do that now, right? So now if I go there, I know what I'm doing. I'm just looking for code. I'm not changing code, but it'll give you that warning, like I kind of like proceed at caution, kind of like Dorothy and wandering down the road. It's like you're getting into some bad area. You sure you wanna do that? And so we know that we can go, yeah, I'm doing that. I'm just gonna copy some code. I'm not gonna delete anything, but your customers might be like, huh, I wonder what that semicolon does. Too many there, I'm just gonna delete that one. Oh man, my whole site's down. Where did I take that semicolon from? Well, I'll just put it back over here. Needle in a haystack, right? So what am I doing? So we need to make sure they understand what areas should be off limits, whether they have access to it or not. When all else fails, remember that money talks. What is my hourly rate? This is my hourly rate. What is my rate to fix a site that you messed up and broke up? It's my hourly rate times three, because I want them to understand there is gravity to this. That if they break a site after I've given them all the warnings, I've given them every way that they could possibly not break it, I'm really gonna charge them up the wazoo. I don't know what a wazoo is, but I love that phrase. Up the wazoo to fix their website. I can guess what a wazoo is, but we're not gonna go into that right now. So remember that fixing their problems costs a lot of money. And when you talk dollars and cents to your customers, especially if they're entrepreneurs, that talks louder than any warning you could have ever say. So make sure they understand that it's gonna cost you. Then you can take the point of giving them instruction. Now, if you're going to build a site and you understand that this is the end goal, build it into the contract. Make sure you're getting paid for the time that you're sitting down to do instruction for them. I'm not saying any of this should come free. None of this should come free. It should all be built into that price or an add-on price that if I am turning over your website to you and I am not maintaining it and you want me to teach you how to use it, it will cost you X number of dollars because my time is not free. So when I sit down with a customer, the cell phones go away, the email goes away, they have to give me their undivided attention because I'm only doing this once. I'm not gonna do this over and over and over again. And I recommend two to three sessions to actually teach them everything because when you can layer it like that, and I think that's coming up maybe in the next slide, then it's easier to retain information rather than saying we're gonna have eight hours and I'm gonna dump it all on you and then I'm peacein' out, right? You don't wanna do that. You wanna make sure that they can internalize the information, that they understand that you're working with them, that you see them edit a page, you see them edit a post, they're writing down notes, they're doing screencasts, whatever it is so that they have something to go back to later to reflect on. Again, only instruct them on what they need to know. Don't tell them, and if you wanna copy anything out of the theme editor because they don't need to do that, right? So make sure that you're not showing them every single bell and whistle that WordPress does. You're not teaching them to design. You're teaching them how to use their own website. And then again, answer their questions but with the appropriate honesty. So what if I go here? Well, you can look at that but again, I wouldn't make a lot of changes there. Oh, you forgot, you know, it says here that we're in the Cupertino time zone. I don't know, Cupertino's like, what, in California or something? Yeah, but I, or it's grudge, whatever, I don't remember what the default is but we're actually in New York or we're in Toronto or wherever. And can we change that? Well, yeah, you can change that. That's not gonna, I mean, it's gonna affect if you're setting blog posts to auto turn on at some point, right? To auto publish. So it's gonna affect that timeframe because that's when they're gonna actually publish when you set something to the future but it's not gonna break the world, right? It's not gonna take the site down, et cetera. So there are some things that they can look at, some things you don't recommend. You know, for example, if they decide they don't wanna be HTTPS anymore and they just take the SS out of the settings, not a good idea. So there are things that they should, they should, you know, have a healthy respect for. Yes. Sorry, I don't know if you're gonna get into it later. Is that, follow into or cover a documentation? We're getting there, I promise. Okay, yep. So as I say, there's layers of learning. So we're gonna talk about, we're gonna set up two to three meetings and we're gonna teach them how to use it because some dot to dots, you can't tell what it is before you start to connect the dots, right? I have no idea what that is. I found it on the internet and it was so horrifying. It looks like a spider web and I don't know. That I thought, who knows what that's supposed to be? That's what it feels like to a customer sometimes, right? You turn the back, turn the loose on the back end. You have to help them connect those dots. So every time you sit down with them, reiterate, this is what we learned last week and this is how we're gonna build on it this week or whatever the next meeting is. So layer that learning so that they have a better opportunity to internalize it and understand what you're doing. And then find some good resources for them that you don't have to be the answer to every single question. They don't have to be calling you every day or emailing you or chatting you or I don't know. When I started out, I did everything wrong in my freelance business. I had seven different ways that customers would contact me through every means, Twitter, Facebook, text messaging, phone calling, emailing. I mean, you name it. I was having people messaging me in so many different ways that I could hardly keep track of all the different areas. So make sure that they have other resources besides always reaching out to you. And there's a good list of resources that I found that are really good for learning WordPress. So if they wanna know how to make the color different in an area that doesn't have a quick easy color changer, W3Schools is a fast and easy way because there's even a way that you can test it on their website. So give them some resources that they can actually use. WPBeginner.com, it's great if they wanna add a plugin at some point and they don't wanna ask you to do it. There's a really great way that tells you if it's not in their repository, if it's a paid plugin, they don't know how to just auto install it through the website. So they have to know to download it from where they bought it, upload it in and WPBeginner has a great way to teach them how to do that. I send customers there all the time in my day job to be able to tell them how to upload our plugins into their website. Then there's lynda.com, udemy, and wp101.com has another great way of teaching people how to use WordPress. Again, I can't stress it enough. You really do need to tell them, give them the serious warnings. There are warnings. It's like, I don't know if you, I'm a Game of Thrones person. First, I will admit that I never watched it until two months ago and then I binge the entire first seven seasons in two weeks so that I could catch up with my coworkers who were talking about it all the time to watch it till the end. And now I'm like dreaming of white walkers and okay, really, I dream of Jon Snow who's kidding. But realistically, like when Sam Well was like, and the white walker looked at him and Sam was like, oh man, this is my dying day. He was lucky it didn't happen that way. This is what we're thinking of. It's like, this could be the bad time. You don't wanna do that. So be clear in what you mean when you give them those warnings. Provide the why and tell them what if. It's not just a don't go. The remember when you had children or if you were a child, everybody was. And you weren't supposed to touch the stove because it's hot? A two-year-old doesn't really understand what hot means. So you have to explain it in a way that it makes sense. Not just don't do, because tell me don't do something. I'm kind of tempted to figure out why. And maybe I'm gonna do it anyway and I'm gonna figure out why I shouldn't have the wrong way because nobody told me what the consequences are. So find out the why, tell them what happens if. And hackers and errors and white screens, oh my, right? So I made the mistake a couple years, about two years ago when I was up and headed to Montreal for work at Montreal. And I started getting all these phone calls from my customers that their sites were down. And I was like, oh boy. And I was using shared hosting and I had about 13 different sites in the same shared hosting area. And I found out when I got to where I was going I pulled up my email and I had an email from my host saying there was a virus or a hack of some kind had compromised my area and there were over 900 infected files. And I had to clean them all up. So I went to the speaker dinner and went back to my hotel. I spent the entire night cleaning up files, redeploying header files, redeploying footer files, taking out the files that were injected into these. And I thought, oh man, thank God I got it all done. SiteGround said it's all clear, everything's good. Well I had said just the week before to my meetup, I really wanna have a meetup session where we talk about what to do if you've been hacked. Does anybody wanna lead that? Cause I've never been hacked. Be careful what you ask for. Because by Monday I was hacked again. And I had 1200 files I had to clean up. And I cleaned them all up and I was happy. And I realized between the first time and the second time that I never checked to see if they had made admin accounts. Cause nobody told me that they could make admin accounts. I didn't think about it. So all these 13 sites I cleaned up still had admin accounts that weren't me or the customer and all those reinfections happened. So I cleaned out all the infection. I deleted all those user accounts, wiped my brow, woke up the next day and they were all infected again. Because I still hadn't found the source of the infection. By the way, that CGI bin that gets put in every single website and is always empty, delete that sucker because that's where they pop from. Cause nobody thinks to look there. And that's where it was. Once I got it out of the CGI bin I was much better off. Anyway, so hackers, errors, white screens, oh my because you know the easiest way to get a white screen is to update a plugin that you didn't test first one by one. Just update, oh there's 16 updates today. I'm just gonna update them all. I wonder which one broke it, right? So there's ways to teach them how to do that. One by one as we know and then see what happens and then if we need to we can always go back to whatever. Create a user manual. What a fast, fun, fascinating, not fast, fascinating idea. Create a user manual for your customer. Make it digital yet printable because we all know if they are troglodytes they are going to print it anyway. So make it something that's a PDF or lives in Google Docs or something where there's clickable links but they can print it off because they'll want to print it off. But make sure you've branded it because it's your intellectual property. So put that branding all over the front and your footers. Put the link back to your website. Put the phone number. And then as I say on the last page include your emergency pricing to remind them that you were serious about that. Because you were serious about that. But include in there how to run a backup first. So there should always have backup software. They should be, your backup software should be working but I always, before I update any plugin or theme run a backup, even if a backup just happened last night I run a backup, download it to my hard drive, delete it afterwards as long as everything's fine but I always have that right at the ready where I can get at it quickly and redeploy a site. So teach them how to do that. Teach them how to use pages and posts, how to add them, how to edit them. How to add media. Teach them how to be accessible. Not just add a photo but why do we use alt tags and what are they for and remind them that not everybody that comes to their site has the same ability as everybody else that comes to their site. Teach them good net citizenship so that they add things to the website that keep it accessible for everybody. Include links to your references. So if you're referencing lynda.com, if you're referencing a Udemy course, put that in there so they understand how to find it. And then as I said, make sure you include your emergency pricing. Create a quick easy guide so they don't necessarily have to find everything in a big manual, maybe even laminate it for them and really blow their minds. The first thing on every list I always tell everybody don't panic. Anything is recoverable to a degree. But with a website, with backups, everything is recoverable. We can fix it, right? We can fix it. Teach them what the different plugins do that you've installed on their site. So maybe they're a nonprofit and you've got donor software, a donor plugin on their website. Teach them what that does and how to do it. So if they have to make another donation form, they understand how to do that. If you're using a plugin that's SEO, make sure they understand how they fill out that form on each page or post so that the SEO is working on those pages. Teach them those things and put that in that handy FAQ. Teach them, put in there the basic editing, how to save it, how to update it. The basic SEO steps, how to back out their site. Put that on that handy dandy chart too. So whether you're using backup buddy or using, I can't think of the other ones. I'll stop by a duplicator. Updraft plus, that's the one I was trying to remember or you're using duplicator. Any of the free ones, any of the paid ones. Teach them how to do it and what it means. The importance of why you would need to update them and then page and post revisions. So teach them how you create a post but then teach them how to go back to an earlier revision because if they publish it and they mess it up, what they wanted on the page, they're gonna panic that they lost the information that they wanted and we all know it's still there because all you have to do is go back to the previous revision and it's still right there. So teach them how to do this so that they don't panic and they don't have to call you at two in the morning when they finally get around to editing their website. Plugins. This is my favorite meme on the whole thing. Nice WordPress site you got there. It'll be a shame if something happened to it. So there are plugins for user role management. You can create a user role management that's incremental in what people are able to do or not able to do. So you can get down to some granularity as far as what people have access to. So they can have access to some admin features but not all admin features. They can have editor roles. They can have, you know, you can really change around and plugins too, right? So a plugin that's a donor plugin that I happen to be really close to has user roles so that somebody could create forms but not see the donor information because that might be more confidential. So there are different roles and different levels of management that you can give as far as usability. A backup plugin, whichever one you use, make sure it's automated. Don't count on them running a backup and don't count on your host or their host to always be at the ready with the backup either because I've had problems with that in the past. If your host has a 30-day, you know, they back up for 30 days and then they drop that 30th one, I had a customer whose site got infected. Didn't build the site, but I had to fix the site. It got infected. I was able to go to their host and get that 30-day backup, guess what? It was still infected because it was a sleeper and it deployed after 30 days. So you have to be really cautious about that. WP Rollback is your friend. WP Rollback is my company makes it, it's a free plugin. It's in their repository. WP Rollback will, it gives you different levels of being able to roll back what's going on in your website. So if somebody updates a plugin and the plugin causes all kinds of problems of integrating with other plugins, you can click WP Rollback and it just takes it back to the previous installation. So you don't have to look for a previous one. You don't have to figure out how to install that. It will roll back that plugin or theme for you so that you can look into how to fix it or have your developers know how to fix or develop a plugin so that if there's plugin conflicts, those things are easy to fix. And so if your customer updates something that they shouldn't have, you can also use that WP Rollback to fix it quickly. And then WP101, I mentioned dot com is a great way to learn WordPress. WP101 is also a plugin that will give back end information on what things do. So it's kind of like a roadmap for your back end. The WordPress dashboard and it gives those little question marks where they can hover and see what different things do and gives them some insights. And it also has video that goes onto your website. The video links on the website to understand how to do things. So it's kind of like a little mini course right within the dashboard. The charge appropriately is fix this. I made this meme today, I was very proud of it. There are no client mistakes, only happy little opportunities to make money. I had to make it twice because I was so tired I spelled they're wrong. But make a contract, make sure that they sign it and they understand how much they're gonna be paying you to fix it. That contract should have an end so that after a year, if you've raised your prices, they have to understand they're gonna be paying even more. It's not forever and ever, this is my price. Don't take pity on them. I don't care if it's your church. If they've messed it up and they're impacting your life, maybe okay your church, but because you probably built it for free anyway. But it could be like the grandma down the road with her own little yarn shop, right? But if she messed it up, it doesn't mean that your time is free. Your time is still what your time is. So if she signed the contract, if you have to fix it, you charge to fix it. Remember it's not your emergency, it's their emergency. Oh, your site's down, that's really, what a shame. Pay me because it needs to be fixed. Their mistakes are your next night out. Oh, somebody made a mistake. Well, we're gonna eat well next week. Dinner and the movie. And as I said, charge two to three times your normal rate because it's all, it's never at an opportune time. You have a schedule that you're trying to go with with what you're designing and your maintenance and everything else. So somebody else's problem adds to your already scheduled week, which means you're working more hours than you anticipated and you need to be remunerated for that. The mission is not impossible, it's just not really easy to make sure that you're empowering these customers, make sure that they understand the gravity of the situation and make sure that you're using the plugins that will limit what they access, or give them the backups that you need should they have problems and provide them the tools that they need to make sure that their site continues to be operational. Hi, I'm Michelle Ames and thanks for having me. Thank you. We still have about 15 minutes. All of my slides are on SlideShare, so this is on SlideShare slash Michelle Ames. SlideShare.net slash Masette Michelle. I can't even say my own name at the end of the day. So these slides, any slides from my other presentations I've done, if you're interested, they're all there, anything that I've had to share. There's my information about me and yeah, that's all. So questions, I want to answer your questions and I want to have fun answering your questions. Shanta. Can you tell us a story of the worst client you ever had? Tell a story of the worst client I ever had. Absolutely. I'm trying to decide which one. Okay, I'm going to go with this particular one. So I had a client who's an artist and he's a metal artist, so he uses blow torches and big welders and all these wonderful, and he makes incredibly beautiful sculptural garden pieces and just amazing, beautiful work. And so he said to me, I would like a site that's very similar to this other site. And it was another artist and it was ethereal. The site was beautiful, a lot of white space, a lot of garden, a lot of beauty. And I thought, because I want it to be just like that. Well, I'm not going to make it just like that because I'm not a thief, but I can take the aesthetic and I can recreate the aesthetic. So I spent a ton of time, I mean, I did my due diligence, I asked him all the questions, I spent a lot of time with him, discovering what he liked, what he didn't like. I spent a lot of time with it. So I took a lot of time to create the site and I thought it was beautiful. It was lovely, it was ethereal, it was all the things that you would expect with garden fairies and all of these sculptural pieces. Very excited, I go sit down with him, I show him the site. Well, I was thinking maybe the background should be black and instead of the really pretty, I want like something with sparks flying and I want pages about my motorcycles and I want another page about how I used to be an Arby's owner and all of a sudden the site went from, I want it just like this to nothing like that. And I said, okay, well, I mean, I can change backgrounds, I can do these things, right? So I basically redesigned the site and I showed it to him and he's like, this is it, I love this, this is fantastic. I said, great, I'm so glad we found something you like. The next day he calls me up, he's like, I don't like the way it looks on my phone. I said, what do you mean? He said, I like the way it looks on my laptop. I want it to look exactly like that on my phone. I said, okay, so you want the word so small that nobody can read them? What do you mean? I said, well, they have to pinch open to be able to read the navigation if it's not mobile responsive. Yes, that's exactly what I want. I said, well, to be quite honest, I'm not sure exactly how to do that because I really only designed for mobile and I did use Divi and it's a mobile responsive but I, so give me 24, 48 hours to figure out if it's even possible. In the meantime, I'm going, oh my God. I go online, I post in the Divi user group, how can I do this? And of course it was like, I was like, the proverbial eggs, like, don't be like, being told to me, why would you do that? Don't do that, tell me you're stupid, tell me it was an idiot, right? And I was like, well, but you could do this and you could do this to turn the responsiveness off. The next day I get another text from him, he's like, well, my friend said I'm being an idiot, so just leave it the way it is. And I was like, yes. That was none of my worst clients because every step of the way, it was just like this, nothing like this, so yeah. And he would never have a login to his own site because he would break it, so. He wasn't interested in that, yes. And the website building is contracted now, but when you have a broken computer to see and you're building, do you go on the front or? It depends on the customer. So if it's a customer that I had difficulty getting payment from in the beginning, right? So the question was, she's reminding me that everybody can hear everybody. The question was if they have broken their site and you have a contract, do you build them up front before you fix it or after you fixed it? So it kind of depends on the customer. If it's a customer that I know pays well, as in pays quickly and I don't have to hum them for money, then I would wait because I really don't necessarily know how long it's gonna take me to fix it. If it's a customer that has been problematic in the past, I probably would already have them on a retainer so that if I would be taking money off when I've already paid me because I don't wanna not get paid for the work that I do especially in an emergency situation. So, more questions? Yes, I'm so glad you asked because I don't remember off the top of my head. Can I get back to you? I'll tweet it out, I promise. I will tweet it out later because I just don't recall what the title is, so. Follow me at Michelle Ames and I will tweet that out for you. One more follower, yes. I'll follow you back to you. You spoke it prior to me, didn't you? Awesome. Do we cover the same information a little bit? Synergy, man, it's a good thing. Right, I know. Where can't Hamilton knows exactly what they're doing? Other questions? I always say I love when I'm so good that everybody's like, no, I'm good. Either that or it's the end of the day, they're like, just shut up and wanna go. Party. So, yeah. You were the cause that men do for needs that you hadn't put in there and you hadn't. Is that something that just hacked into it or they had just created those interesting colors and then what do you have? When I was hacked, what happened is they somehow hacked in. Well, I had a customer who I was just hosting and I hadn't built his site. He never did any updates. And so I think he was patient zero because I think that somehow the, because I was keeping everything else updated. So I think that at some point there was a security breach in his site which then breached into all these other sites. And what it did is it deposited the hack of the virus, whatever in that CGI bin. And then when it deployed out to all of these other sites it just created admin accounts that were just like gobbledygook email addresses. Like it wasn't like a name. It wasn't like, hey Bradley just has a new admin kind of thing. And it never emailed me that those had been created either or that would have been some kind of a sign like, oh, wait a minute, XY797 has a username? That doesn't make any sense, right? So it somehow it creates all those, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it was interesting. I got really good at cleaning up files because I don't, there were 13 websites I didn't want to pay security to fix them all. So, but it been expensive. Yes. When you went to clean up files do you know it just restored them in some sort of background? Well, so the problem is that half of the customers that were in there were also blogging and I wasn't sure how recently they had added to their sites. So I probably could have, but I didn't. That probably would have been a good way to do it. If I had partitioned off and I had sites on their own hosts, which is the way I do things now. I would have done exactly that. Yes. You said that in the end you had to delete the CGI file. Yeah. It is not necessary. You can just trash it. Correct. Yep. It's kind of a hang, a holdover from older design times. Yeah, it's not necessary. Yeah, WordPress does not use it. Yeah, so, yeah, yeah. Any other questions? Well, thank you for being here. It's so nice to have so many people in the room at the end of the day. I really appreciate it.