 But we're gonna move on now to our next topic and this is the one that's gonna get heated Because when we do our cumulative, this is gonna be very hard. I feel for some of us, maybe We'll see so our second topic for this week sticking with that classic theme. We have the I'll just read verbatim when I sit there. So while the Gameboy classic has rumors swirling the n64 classic is Assuredly going to be a thing at some point Even if that's a few years away. So what are five games that we must include on the platform should it release and We're gonna go around them again and state our five. I I guess I'll start this time since I went last last time reverse order. Yeah, we'll reverse order it up this time Then we'll mix the order up completely again for whatever So before we start let's ask a question here. Yeah, are we are we? excluding rare games since they aren't owned by Nintendo anymore, or Any game that released on the platform, it doesn't have to be exclusive Okay, okay, good enough. Yep Okay, cuz I never said it had to be exclusive and there's games on the classic systems that were an exclusive So, okay, I just want to make sure all right. Oh Boy, this is I have a tough job. Just name it just five of mine You know what? You know what because my list is full of a bunch of ones that I don't think anyone's gonna mention We're actually a game over Jesse start I just realized that I actually went with the intent of not going first on my list because otherwise I'm just gonna name off all the obvious ones right away Watch none of us name it because none of us want to be that Five games five games five in 64. All right. These are likely going to be the most obvious games but Ocarina of time. Yeah, Super Mario 64 Super Smash Brothers Star Fox and Mario Kart 64 All right All right Well, let's hop on over to Eric No, no. Yeah. No. No, you're doing it. I'm making you Here you go I'm mixing the order up right now. Let's do it. Oh, you don't tell me you know how many games you have. Yeah, I have 18 That's why I can go last It's not happening. None of my games have been listed yet. So Yeah, okay fine fine if you're gonna make me go you gotta have Conker's bed for a day You gotta have golden night you gotta have Banjo-Kazooie I Think you have to include a Mario Party That's for So let's go Snowboard kids. Yeah, one or two. Oh, they're both good. So one one one, but oh gee, okay All right Bobby you're up. Okay. I Can't remember was it was Mario Kart 64 listed? Yeah. Yeah, I list. Yeah All right, Star Fox was not though, correct? No, I did Star Fox Sleeping I was asleep. I apologize. Okay shadows of the Empire Turrock the dinosaur hunter there we go NFL Blitz nice nice I Want to go no mercy, okay And I want to go Man, this is tough. This is this one. It's gonna be Be tough when you're getting down on that last one. I know the last one's tough Here you go, diddy diddy Kong racing did he come right? Yep. There we go. That's a good one. That's a good one awesome Bit really easy for me because only one of my games got crossed off And you guys You could know you couldn't have I said almost because if you would have crossed off much my list I would have just said stuff off your list So Pokemon Stadium, oh, yes, yes, I Don't know why that's not even around anymore. Oh Pokemon Stadium. Um rogue squadron Mm-hmm Me come on rogue squadron to me better than starbucks in every way Let's see here Go with Harvest Moon 64. Mm-hmm. I think it's really the game. I mean Harvest Moon blow up right there. Yeah It is hard to because you guys didn't eliminate enough mine It is hard to to eliminate down myself But this is just I'm saying that I don't know if this is one of the the best per se but I'm gonna say this game because I've been saying for years that it needs to come back Pokemon snap Just needs to happen and this is gonna be my my out there one because I Was a big fan of the show and a big fan of the game the Xenor warrior princess game This is a There was a couple like I had 1080 snowboarding as a potential but I Don't know that I would pretend any snowboarding my top five So I went with games that I actually would legit argue our top five potential now Are we happy? Nobody said ever quest 64. I love For quest 64. Yeah quest 64. I love 64 But unfortunately quest 64 once I played other games. I realized it really wasn't that good It was a nice attempt. Hey, I'm just gonna throw it to more games here Okay, get those animal mentions in perfect dark and Donkey Kong 64. Okay Understandable alright, so this is where we're gonna have a hard time debating I think because it obviously says it might be I know one specific game people are gonna want on the list. I'm gonna be arguing against so let's go around the room and Get get this going. I don't want to be the one that puts two on so let's cuz I got to put two on last time and so did Think Jesse everybody put one. Oh, I'm three. You have to put three on. Yeah. Yeah, those two did Yeah, so we'll have it start with No, Eric since you have so many of us will have you start First game you're gonna nominate for the list Congress Conquer that my favorite game of all time pretty much This specific version is your favorite. Yes, don't don't even start me at the Xbox Yeah, it's fine for single players to multi-player. They they're kind of butchered All right, then my guess we'll hop on over to Jesse Ocarina All right. I feel like it has to be All right. I I think it's obvious Mario 64. Okay. It's good. It's good You know, I don't know if any of us mentioned the game, but I put it on there anyways Majora's man Because uh, what are we eliminating it to well, we'll get to that in a moment. Okay, we'll get to the moment. Okay And then it would be back to Eric. What's the last game you would do for the top five? Trust me, I don't think this is gonna be the finalist. Yeah, I was gonna say This is not gonna be final. There's gonna be some heated debate, too. Yeah Let's go six Mario 64 Solid pick. All right, and we're so Our top five as it stands right now. This is not final. We got Conquer's bed for today Ocarina of Time Mario 64 Majora's Mask and Mario Kart 64 So now here's where it gets fun I don't want to go first on what I want to bump off Because this is Jesse and I are gonna go five rounds on it So Let's go with How about a ten a girl what game would you bump off this listen replace? I Would bump off the girls when asked okay, and I would probably put Either GoldenEye or Star Fox 64 in there, but I would probably go GoldenEye because I feel like that's the more Beloved like it's it's to be it's the starter of the first person shooter multiplayer They think so I would probably go that way and the reason why I would bump Majora's Mask off It's because I feel like if you're going to put a Zelda game one Ocarina is the true Zelda game of the two I'm not saying that Majora's Mask is a bad game by any stretch of imagination, but I feel like of the two games One is a Zelda game and the other one is an offshoot of the Zelda game to some extension And so I would go that's why I would bump the Majora's Mask off This is gonna be a fun argument too all right So I've got I've got GoldenEye listed as a potential replacement for Majora's Mask here Mm-hmm. We'll see how many other games or how many other options get thrown out there Jesse is there a game you bump off this list and replace with something all right if he's bumping it off Majora's Mask I love Majora's Mask, so I'm gonna bump off GoldenEye that he just put okay. No, that's okay. That's okay Perfect dark, okay, there's a lot of people that think perfect arts better the the obvious superior Oh snap All right. All right So what we'll get to a debate on that here in a second Eric is there a game you bump off to replace It could be Majora's Mask again or one of the games I know I know nothing technically bumped off yet. I got it. There's a potential bump off. I Know and it like I said this may be my favorite game of all time But you know, I don't know how you don't have Smash Brothers on here So probably have to bump Conker's because it's not I don't think it's as well known bump in your own It's it's weird because you know, it's just all of a sudden I realized Smash wasn't on here And it's like how do you not have Smash on here? You do need to do a good multiplayer game on there Well, my record's on there. Oh, yeah, that's right. Well, let's see. Okay to the idiot Yeah, but I think I agree with I agree with it the idea bumping Conker for Smash It just because Smash started at all and as big as it is like to me to not have Because it's only five games. Yeah, I feel like it's it's there's only the N64 didn't have a gigantic library of Wealth of games they had a lot of good games don't get me wrong But it wasn't it's huge. It's like the SNES or the NES like it's a little bit I feel easier to get the top five Just because I feel like a game like Smash Mario Kart Zelda whatever is picked in Mario 64 So that leaves you one game is the wiggle room game in my my opinion. So I think that's where Hmm, it all boils down. Oh, man to some type of difference Here's the thing. I hate the stop five list. Oh This is not even remotely close to what I would put out there Mario 64 we get totally bumped for Banjo-Kazooie. Yeah, yeah Banjo-Kazooie or Banjo-Tooie Banjo-Kazooie-Kazooie Conker's bad for a day would totally stay Gold and I would bump up ocarina of time This is why I wanted to ask I know I'm upset so many people right now. It's like especially the company goes I can feel like there's these four are guaranteed and I'm like, no No, I wouldn't even put smash on the list. Yeah, but you gotta think like this is your want list Let's talk reality. This is what I think are the best and 64 games. Yeah, but that's very argumentative Like I think that's what we're doing List is way in the minority. I guarantee you you put a poll up your list against my list I guarantee you your list is way This is for people debating and what deserves to be in this list So I know I'm gonna lose a lot of these debates because you three are gonna argue the accounts Come on smash has to be on there that ocarina of time has to be on there So, you know what let's instead of me picking a fight with like each one of these games Let me start with the fight. I know I'm going to lose But one I need to make because everyone always asks me why ocarina of time is like my tenth favorite Zelda game And why I think Majora's mask totally destroys it and should be the Zelda representation on this list If there's going to be as all the representation But I I would honestly if I'm gonna knock out one game it's ocarina of time and That I would replace with gold and I now I Have a feeling I'm gonna get outnumbered and ocarina time is gonna stay. I just know it Here's my question to you. I don't want to hear why you want to replace with with that I want to know why because I because I feel like if we're going off the same rules of the game Then only one Zelda game gets to stay here. So yeah, I don't want to hear your argument of why my Majora's mask Should stay over ocarina. It's a better game in every single possible imaginable way There's nothing ocarina time does it's better than Majora's mask Obviously, that's really broad. So let me let me get a little specific the controls are tighter in Majora's mask So it controls better The visuals are technically better Barely I know it's like both in the same engine but but is technically better They even had to use the expansion pack to get the game to run The time system actually made the world feel alive Unlike an ocarina time where everyone's doing like the same thing all the time whether if you're a kid They're all doing the same thing if you're adult they're all doing whatever it might be a little different or they're dead But they're doing the same thing whereas in Majora's mask while it's built on a three-day system And obviously everyone's doing like the same thing throughout the three days It alters depending on who you are going to interact with so the world felt alive And that is something that ocarina time. It just didn't feel alive to me. It was a fantastic game It felt my the reasons that I dislike ocarina time and I don't even dislike it. I like ocarina time I played it. I beat it. I mean, it's the game after I play that that's when I started making Zelda sites So obviously I really enjoyed it at the time But as I played more games especially with Majora's mask came out my eyes just opened I'm like wait a second ocarina time is not that good compared to this game ocarina of time is Essentially a link to the past in 3d There isn't much that ocarina time did That a revolutionized settings lock-on system is successfully transitioned a popular franchise in the 3d Which I'm sure all of you guys know at the time was very hard to do Most 2d franchises at the time struggle. I mean Sonic even to this day is still struggle to stick in 3d I'm not am I gonna say they're having a good sign of games 3d. I'm sure some people out there have some games They like I actually like the Sonic Lost World Wii I'm actually really like that. There was two levels in there that they should have scrapped and just built something else, but That also put the like Mario Galaxy, so I don't know maybe that that was my affinity towards it just how they presented the world but Yeah, I give it credit for that and I give it credit for creating the lock-on system Technically the lock-on system existed in other games before it, but that's the game that popularized it and made it so other games Let's start using that lock-on system and Yeah, I mean It's not that it's a bad game, but Majora's Mask It improved the controls controls were a big issue with me once I played Majora's Mask I was like wait a second this feels clunky playing ocarina of time the controls just aren't as precise Plus you have additional moves you can do that you can't do in opening of time The story itself I'm not one of those people that things like you know the whole theory that link died I actually think that's a terrible theory and Eji Anoma has already debunked that theory. Thank you Yeah, it's just it didn't happen I mean, I don't know how clear it has to be like when Eji Anoma comes on like yeah That's not what happened if you think that like you're ignoring all the other emotions that happen in every area Like thank you because I've never thought it was real, but I bring it up because the story itself is very dark Like people thought ocarina time was dark because you know Ganon Dwarf, you know one and like killed everyone or killed a lot of people not everyone obviously And then you ultimately you know because of your mistake and I understand the deepness in that You know you pulled the master sword that which allowed him to do it but In Majora's Mask the world is literally gonna die It's going to end in three days if you don't stop it you can actually see it end It's not like in ocarina time where it's just a game over screen if you die That's not what happens you fail in Majora's Mask you get to see everyone die You get to see the world just get destroyed by the moon on top of that in addition to the storyline there you also have the storyline with Skull Kid and How deep that goes the storytelling was just so much better It's almost like you could tell that they had people that cared about story in this game Whereas the story in Ocarina time well I had some original moments and the one thing I will say Ocarina time had better music is that The story in Ocarina time just didn't Didn't have that punch as it felt very a link to the past like the structure of the game was very linked to the past And while I understand the argument you know like In some degree you made the Majora's Mask was kind of a side game Which is that really irritated me But I understand because it was like the first game to not really take place in Hyrule besides Link's Awakening which was a dream So I Understand it the premises that did the time system that hasn't returned yet I mean we've obviously had days and stuff what we haven't had like a limited time system and we also haven't had people necessarily working on schedules, but The reality is a lot of what that game did other games actually copied and did things with especially when it came to If you look at a lot of side-questing in a lot of other games that aren't Zelda a lot of it You can look back at Majora's Mask and be like oh, yeah, they that's the one that really set the side quest standard that everyone's building up Nintendo even did it themselves in Wind Waker. There's certain side quests that clearly took inspiration from Majora's Mask plus Majora's Mask had the best side quest I think of all time the Andrew and Kathy side quest is just Amazing ending extremely emotional throughout And on top of that while you're trying to Reunite these lost lovers You got the word of the world's ending at the same time So like how you're gonna balance that priority of trying to help those lost lovers plus trying to save the world And obviously, you know that you can reset and everything but then you reset you lose that so Obviously the bombers no book kept track of everything, but it it was just a very unique game that did what Ocarina of Time Didn't dare do because Ocarina of Time was Ocarina of Time was what they wanted to use as a template to bring the game to 3d It wasn't the full potential of what 3d's Elvis could be and Majora's Mask to me just did Everything better story telling builder world building even better believe it or not The music wasn't as good I think the four dungeons while I Agreed that is a limited amount and that was probably really probably due to that they kind of threw this game together in a year I think those four dungeons are Vastly superior to what is in Ocarina of Time now I will understand there are some dungeons Ocarina of Time that I absolutely love but I like the Majora's Mask ones better I like the boss fights better. I like the story better. I like the side questing better I like the controls better. There really isn't much in Majora's Mask I don't like better than Ocarina of Time besides the music Anyways, that's my argument and I'm sure it's about to get completely destroyed I mean, it's all personal opinions, of course, but All right, the the only thing that I well, there's two things that I have to say about this one is I remember when Majora's Mask 3d released Alnimo's being interviewed about it and he mentioned that Majora's Mask was developed For people who were Experts at Ocarina of Time people who have played through Ocarina of Time and they're used to the world They know the combat system the combat system how to solve all the puzzles and everything Majora's Mask is like if you took those same type of puzzles and enemies and like switched it to hard mode is What I took from what he was saying sure he said that it was designed specifically for people who would already completed Ocarina of Time sure and with As the Zelda series in a whole whether or not Majora's Mask or Ocarina of Time should be on the list I do agree that There are things that make me like Majora's Mask better than Ocarina of Time But I feel if you're only going to have one game on the list It needs to be something that better represents The entire franchise to give people an idea With that said, there's probably a lot of people who have already played Ocarina of Time that may have not messed with Majora's Mask because it's not as popular I don't think as Ocarina But I mean bottom line is that they make N64 classic. They're both there Yeah, I mean, but but I mean this is our top five like like forget what is happening like Like I understand the argument that Ocarina of Time is the milestone game, right? I mean, that's the thing I gave it credit for You got a 99 Metacritic against a 95. So I mean like Yeah, in the 99 It's like what it's what it's not based upon reviewed upon like at that time So about the Metacritic rating about the Metacritic rating Yeah, if you actually look at the Metacritic of Time which has maintained like the number one spot. I'm like every Accumulative thing it has like the least amount of reviews counted towards it So like if games today like Breath of the Wild if they only counted like 14 or 22 reviews It's a 10 out of 10 and it's 100% But they don't they count like 80 100 plus It's like literally impossible to top a game that only averaged, but you know 20 reviews. Okay, but Metacritic has okay So I'm looking at right now Metacritic has 22 for Ocarina and 27 for Majora's Mask. Mm-hmm. They're both user scores. They're both a 9.2. Yep So that's kind of my point by the time I draw his mask came out They counted five more reviews towards it and if you think about it 22 to 27 those five reviews can literally change the game On what it is on what that score is So that's why I always say Ocarina of Time is gonna maintain the number one position probably forever by default Because there just wasn't enough reviewers back then or enough reviews counted or enough reviews that could find Internet was really young Internet kind of started blowing up after that In the 2000s which is when Majora's Mask came out So Yeah, I understand like in terms of Impact Ocarina of Time have more impact. No, no doubt that it had more impact on gaming in general even but This is a top five and to me. It's not even in my top 10 Zelda games So why would it be in my top five and 64 games? But this is our top five. I know so what's the other guys want to say about this like Jesse it They're just gonna say nothing is he didn't play the games If you had to pick one Jesse, which are you picking? Based it on which one's the better game to you Rather than which one do you think is like the most impactful game that represents the series you're killing me here? I'm having This is one of that. That's what it's supposed to be. It's not necessarily what had the most impact It's what we think are the best You can consider impact if you want obviously I can't tell you not to all right I'll say this I'll I say At this point in time Majora's mask because the last few times I went back to play Ocarina of Time I've played through Ocarina of Time so many times and you don't like as Nate said Ocarina of Time is basically a link to the past in 3d And if you take it a step further Twilight Princess is Ocarina of Time on the Gamecube and Twilight Princess is better. In both games you go like the Forest Dungeon Fire Dungeon Water Dungeon so Yeah, I'm I'm I'm sorry everybody watching if this makes you mad I think they're not they'll be less mad about you going Majora's Mask They'll be more upset that Ocarina of Time is like not even in my top 10 Zelda games Okay, so my answer is I've played through Ocarina of Time or games like Ocarina of Time So many times that the last couple of times I played through Ocarina of Time I actually got bored because It is go here do this go here do that, but when you play Majora's Mask After each dungeon it is you know the dungeons are in a particular order Yeah, but between the dungeons you have dozens of different things that you can go and do so if you're bored and You don't want to save Termani ranch or whatever you can go and help though other people in term now you can So many different things you can do remember when they brought up the alien idea for Breath of the Wild that they had Oh aliens are gonna come breath a while abducted. I'm like they already did that's what drawers mask Yeah, I mean as abducting cows granted and I think that we're gonna expand it more than that Wait does I don't think Breath of the Wild has cows that can even be abducted I don't even think there are cows I know I think about I don't remember ever seen one in the game That's weird isn't it? It is is there's some milk in the other goat milk, but there's goats in the game That's so weird Because like the cows were there they've been there for a while and now they're not around there are like the runes What they'll abducted no I got abducted. Yeah, there we go So whatever you did in Majora's Mask She actually failed and they went over to Hyrule and took all their cows. Oh my gosh. I actually I would love to see those aliens come back That'd be awesome What's the history what's the history behind the Majora? What's what's Majora's story? What's the story with aliens? It's just really randomly added in what's it? What's up with those? Okay Guru Nintendo guru which one up between those two and you choose I It doesn't matter to me either one Oh, am I gonna win the argument that I thought I had no chance No way Yeah, I don't it doesn't And honestly, that's my bigger gripe is with with you saying that band is better than marriage 64 So I don't I'll fight you on that one. That's when you can have whatever you want. Okay, so Okay, well, what do you think? Oh, I don't have a you don't have a okay, so I mean, I mean, I have to I'm surprised to be 20. I So, but I'm literally crossing off a creative time off the top five and 64 games I have I'm hearing the fans Because literally before I made my argument game over Jesse was going over your time. All right So that brings up an interesting conundrum because obviously we had games suggested to knock off Majora's mask But now we have an open spot for sure 100% for sure. Let's see though if we want to knock any of the others off Well first off, well, let's argue which one's gonna replace our attempt so we're right now We had smash argued as an inclusion gold and I and perfect art So We'll leave those three because those are the three games. I think we're arguing to get back on that list So With that open spot between smash gold and I and perfect dark, which game would you pick there? I mean, it's much so like perfect dark. I gotta go away from that one. I think it has to come down between Smash and gold night just because of the again I'm gonna go with the one that you said not to go with is the impact that it's had on Like everything with gold night being basically the base for a lot of the first-person shooters and then smash look at what it's turned into So yeah, I Think the bigger impact would have to be gold my so I'm gonna go with my all right. What do we got a girl? Which one would you go with in those three? I'd probably go gold night because I feel like that era golden bigger impact Sure Like smash kind of started it, but I don't think smash really kicks off till melee like I think once melee hits That's when the entire Community uprises and starts this whole swell for smash. So for me, I would definitely I would I would go golden I I don't have the computer in front of you right now. So correct me if I'm wrong But I'm pretty sure that smash 64 massively outsold melee Melee is just stayed relevant because of the competitive community. Well, that's what I mean Like it's it's created a ground swell behind it, but that's not why smash is popular What's that the competitive community is not actually why smash was popular though. It's a very neat thing It's kind of what I'm getting at. It's a very like hardcore thing, but it's very neat I must say I love the smash. I'm like a smash community that's competitive community. Don't get mad at me I'm just saying that like I don't know for me personally. I don't think One I don't even think think melee is the best smash game And I don't think that it is that it starting the competitive community really matters Especially since Nintendo has very poorly supported that community Nintendo doesn't care about it. Why should I it's kind of I Hate saying that I'm a fan, right? But um, so you're going with golden I said Yes, okay Jesse All right for me personally When I played smash brothers I Didn't really have people at the time to play it with me. So it was always the same Single-player experience over and over I never really got into golden eye because I just seen it as why play golden eye when we can play The better more fun version with perfect arc because it took some of the levels and It added on to it. So like when you go back and play the golden eye multiplayer and you played some of those same levels There were areas that just felt Uncomplete So I'm gonna have to go with perfect dark and rule out golden eye and Smash brothers, okay. Yeah tallies here. Um Comes down to me real quick real quick. I just want to answer your question earlier Melee outsold 64 by 2 million. Okay units. Thank you. So thank you for that. What were the numbers on it? It was seven point four one for melee all right five point five five four All right, thank you for that. I want to say with that melee Was also playable on the Wii so even though a new console came out you could still buy Play them as they were new. Yep. All right, cool. Hey, I'll take the L on that. It's all good It's not it's hard for me because like I don't When we do the podcast, I don't know if you guys well Jesse's probably seen so I don't have a computer in front of me So like I can't research things and my phone that I could research on is what I record with So I literally have no way to look anything up. It's all the top of my head Which things get fuzzy when we're talking this old school stuff here Unless it's Zelda. I could tell you like Zelda sales figures off the back of my head, but That's a story for a different time. That's what happens when you cover Zelda for 18 years of your life Wasted away. Oh man To be honest and I never thought that I would see a top five where we're seriously debating Smash's inclusion Because it was such a special game to me I know the character list wasn't as big and there's better smash games on the end 64 man played smash all the time it would almost be It's a weird analogy because smash is a better game But remember track and field and NES and how much we played that it's akin to that to me We're like I played that game all the time multiplayer like crazy. It was it was a blast We were the most fun things I ever did an NES. Yeah, same thing's true here on in 64 It's hard for me to think of a multiplayer game. I had more fun with than smash But then gold and I Just special and I It's tough for me because perfect dark I Don't I've never was one of those people that felt perfect. I was the better game I think perfect art potentially had the better single player And well, I think it had better designed multiplayer maps I thought the actual act of playing multiplayer and the various modes and all the cheats and all the different things You could do in gold and I were vastly superior paintball mode big head mode Etc. Etc. Etc. Golden gun I Will give perfect art the bot being able to play yeah, yeah, I will give it that that's one thing I select what time splitters do oh? Not not it not even in consideration here, but yeah, um, it's a I'm gonna have to just give it the gold night because I just had more fun with it multiplayer wise single player wise I think perfect art to me was a little better But man all the various modes the way to play I'm not gonna go with like impact. Oh no a lot all the future FPS games and console like yeah It was like the game that and perfect art really combined where the games to prove that you could have FPS games Not you know off of PCs and on home consoles, but that's At the time wasn't it like doom And then maybe Unreal Tournament back then That kind of were the big ones on PC Think I'm trying I'm trying to remember time like that. I played a lot of PC games back then too So yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna have to go with golden. I'm sorry Jesse I'm trying to make it all over getting stomped on But well hey, he could have with the other way no career time. He could have someone probably would have eventually agreed with him All right, so golden. I hey, yes folks golden. I has replaced over your time. All right So other games that we argued to get to get removed was Eric's Eric argued replacing his own nomination with smash So you guys think you know, I'm cross on cold nights. We just got that on this That Either perfect dark or smash should replace Concrete bed for a day or is there another game you guys think should replace it? No, I think I think because we were debating Smash if I would agree with him in saying that smash should replace conquer Okay I'm I'm with that as well smash. No, I don't know. I don't know conquerors. Yeah. Yeah, here's a thing Here's to me. Here's the enemy conquerors bad for a day to me is the best and 64 game I don't think there's any game that's come out since or or even on that system That's anywhere near it from the humor the platforming. Oh approach the story It is literally rare as best game in my opinion And unfortunately, yeah, it was I mean unfortunate was rated M But that that to me just meant that unlike Bandra Kazooie where maybe they had to reserve themselves a little bit But conquerors bad for a day They got to take off the handcuffs and do whatever crazy stuff. They want it. I'm to this day I still listen to the great mighty food. It is. Oh, yeah play list I even to this day, like we were so pumped when it came to Xbox We're like, oh dude are like our favorite game ever. Yeah coming out in HD kind of sorta This is gonna be awesome and it was awesome. The multiplayer was okay. It just destroyed, you know, the m64 multi I don't know why they had changed it. Yeah, but yeah That then that's kind of my thing like this isn't anything against smash. Mm-hmm to me personally this is conquerors bad for a to me was like Ampar with the best platforming games on the system had the best humor on the system had some of the best unique music on the system and Just had one of the best stories in my opinion now that's all I'm gonna say on my phone at Conquerors bad for a day and there's a lot of stuff that I've forgotten about the game that It should make the list hit me hit me with some stuff. I love looking back in Carter, huh? No, I was just like I Had like the trailer and stuff Reviews skipping through looking at like different areas and stuff because it's like it's unique. They they took Banjo-Kazooie banjo-Tui, which was already a really great platformer collect-a-thon type game Yep, and just made it better. Yeah, they took the handcuffs off And I'm not just saying because I'm rating just in general it felt like they anything they wanted to do They could do now there wasn't I mean like the Great Muddy Poo that kind of thing would have never existed in the original Banjo-Kazooie even though you can argue with borderline reality is they're not put that in there because they know that It's gonna be a game that's more catered towards like the Mario 64 crowd well, Banjo-Kazooie felt like their answer to Super Mario 64 and then Banjo-Tui was just oh Let's try to make the same thing again and add minor improvements And then rare if you're listening you could just make the same thing again and releasing And then with conquer it's like they took everything that they've learned All the experience they had from working on Banjo-Kazooie Banjo-Tui and Anything else the Donkey Kong 64 game and they were like okay instead of making a Nintendo game Let's make the game that we want to make Yeah, and Nintendo was you know, I remember reading some interviews Nintendo was hesitant at first But then they're like I think someone it was someone inside Nintendo said I know your hesitant I was someone at Nintendo America said I we realized your hesitant Nintendo Japan, but let's look at their track record Just let them do it they they deserve they've earned the right to do this look at what they've done for us Which is ironic that that was the argument because then they later sold the company to Microsoft Which I think in it, you know, they had an opportunity before Microsoft to buy rare But Nintendo didn't want to take the take the bite and do that. So To the sugar in the fans everywhere And especially after what's happened a rare sense I think what also makes Conker standard and this is more relating to today is that Microsoft and rare kind of Refuses to ever read even remake the game because They even even making like a sequel to it or anything because like the game was so fantastic in the bubble that it exists in That they don't think they could do it justice today. I Remember reading the interview because everyone when people were going nuts at E3 when this was back I think when is either the year of Xbox one reveal or the second E3 When they had that one game where you could like build anything you want kind of thing And then all of a sudden they had Conker pop up on the screen and people were going nuts thinking oh my god We're getting another conqueror or we're getting a remake or something and then it turned out It was just like some DLC for that game Yeah, I think I remember that because I remember the crowd was just going nuts because every like everyone not only wants Conker They want old rare back, right? Oh, yeah, I mean it's not gonna happen pretty much everyone from old rares left the company, but And we know some of them, you know, we all know that a lot of them went off and formed that one studio that that made the rare like game Play tonic play tonic games. Yeah, they made whatever. It's called now. I can't remember. Oh, yeah, you go lately Yeah, it hasn't released on switch yet. Come on guys. I get on top of it Yeah, I know I read they recently updated like back in September that they're waiting They're fixing some bugs or whatever which is fine at this point They might as well wait longer because Mario is gonna come out no one's gonna care And the fact that it didn't really get that good reviews in the first place But again, I'm still gonna buy it Because I feel like Banjo-Kazooie if they just remade that release today wouldn't get good reviews Because I think a lot of people just aren't used to these collect-a-thon things outside of Mario and Mario kept progressing forward You go lately. I heard I haven't played it feels a lot like the old games including the quote-unquote bad stuff And when I played those games, I don't remember bad stuff. Yeah It feels like It doesn't feel like a modern game like that you would play on the Nintendo switch or PlayStation 4 It feels like if they would have made Banjo 3 or whatever it could have been called for the GameCube or the Wii This feels like what that would have been. That's fine to me. That's exactly what I wanted to be Which is like the same thing with the updates aren't enough to make it feel like a modern game But they are enough to make it feel like you would have what's a modern game on the game with the indie scene What the heck is a modern game? I mean, we're back to play 8-bit and 16-bit again. Yeah, true I mean, that's kind of my thing like I didn't the I think some people had some Some especially critics had some unrealistic expectations that this would be like a triple a level like a Mario odyssey and I understand that but this was a new studio forming. Yes They had some funding but the funding was nowhere near what like a Mario odyssey had So like you have to consider the limitations they worked under they needed to just prove they could make a game like that and Hopefully sell enough of it to have a bigger budget for the next one. Whatever they do. Well, it's a sequel or a new IP Again, I mean if they if they even hinted anything related to a conquer style game coming out I'm I'm probably gonna pass out that day and die have a heart attack For the right reasons, although, I don't know any right reasons that leave my kid without a father. I'm yeah, yeah You got you got it Eric. You're ready to add that a three. Here we go But yeah, so I guess we're at that conundrum is it smash or is it conquerors My vote was a carcass because it's literally my favorite n64 game I'm going with caucus on this And We can flip a coin if it has to be a two-two. No, no, we'll make this like as I make it. I'll make it simple Eric What do you want to do Eric? I? He loves I have to go with conquerors. Oh, it is my favorite game of all time And so I mean I mean the only reason why I picked it was because I just you know with smash It you know if I had to pick a game off of it. It was just kind of one of those things that it was I Think a little bit less known Than the rest of the games on there. Yeah, I don't remember how well sold I don't remember looking at sales numbers for conquerors, but To me it's I like that game better. Okay, so I guess that that kind of solidifies that game on the list So this is a question with three I don't think any of us are gonna make or that I can make a legit argument That's going to make Mario 64 get bumped because you guys are all gonna want Mario 64 on there I'm gonna want Banjo-Kazooie. I'm gonna lose that argument I just know I'm gonna lose that argument and I know you guys are probably all fans of Andrew Kazooie, but Mario 64 Unlike Oakland of time where I felt like I could make a you know this legit argument I feel like I can make a strong case But there is zero case at all the fact that the whole rare collectathons killed the 3d world for a while that that speaks highly that it's not They did all they didn't kill it people just stop making them Well, it's not making them but they stop buying them. No, okay. What was the sales of a? For get let's forget. What was it nuts and bolts or whatever? Might that let's put it this way rare didn't kill it Microsoft killed that game. No, come on They stopped making banjo game. They made Banjo Banjo-Tooie Donkey Kong 64 like those three games like just Destroyed the whole genre and it went away for years Okay, I gotta stop you from how well those games sell I don't have a computer for me, so I can't look up sales figures Because I would understand your argument if those games didn't sell well if they sold well Then what happened really is that rare got sold to Microsoft and then people stop making them besides Nintendo Because it literally if you think about the 3d platforming back then it was rare in Nintendo No one else was really making them there was Crash Bandicoot, of course I which we know that ended up getting abandoned when they when they had Naughty Dog move on to some some other series Banjo-Kazooie sold 3.65 million copies. Okay How about Banjo-Tooie and Donkey Kong? He might as well conquer sales in there too Well Okay, so you go from that down to 1.49 million. Sure. Okay, so that's a huge drop for a sequel And what was Donkey Kong 64? Now see I wasn't a huge fan of Donkey Kong 64 myself, but I know some people that are passionate about that game Donkey Kong 64 did 5.27 million. Nintendo IP. Yeah And then What was I'm just curious what time I what was the sales for Conkers on 64. I don't care what it was in Xbox Yeah, I'm just Okay, and it compared Super Mario 64 did almost 12 million Well, yeah, Super Mario 64 was like Nintendo when Nintendo is looking at the numbers are these things are declining big time like it's huge But here's the thing Nintendo didn't abandon 3d Mario They actually abandoned 2D Mario, but they waited a while before it came back and then conquer was point seven seven Conqueror didn't even do a million. I mean you say they wait a while. They basically were doing one per generation they had Mario 64 and then they had Sunshine on GameCube and Then they had Galaxy on Wii. I mean it really wasn't so we you that they like didn't really have a traditional Of course Nintendo is not gonna get rid of Mario obviously, but I mean we you're talking 1996 to 20 2002 is the gap between 64 and sunshine But what I'm saying is is all Other companies stopped the 3d well, but but what stopped it was it that people didn't want to buy it anymore Or is it that games? Well, but see my argument for that is that was it that? They stopped making them by choice or because rare the company that was making them all got sold to Microsoft They had nothing to do with it, but they so the game stopped when it got sold Literally if you look at the timeline as soon as it got sold they stopped making them So something had happened there They were making them on Nintendo systems Microsoft buys the company and then they kind of stopped They made nuts and bolts which ended up to be not even it sucked It was not it's an embarrassment to the Banjo-Kazooie name. It's not it's not a Banjo-Kazooie. Yeah at all It's nothing like that. I don't know what they were thinking. I don't know Mike I don't know whose idea it was actually was I think an interview where someone explained What was the thing behind that game some you they were trying to me a moto it I think unique ideas blah blah blah blah and they just totally forgot what the series is along the way To that to me. I think that game that that game right there is what killed it because When Microsoft brought them over they ported conquer that for today That was like a huge big thing they did on Xbox the og Xbox is that was like their first big rare game Is they brought conquer over which at the time made sense their big game with halo So bring over their m-rated rare game, and I don't even know what the sales of that did I didn't pay attention to the sales of that on Xbox But then after that they went right ahead and made nuts and bolts and nuts and bolts was just Terrible and after that they stopped Okay, so like my argument is that as soon as they got sold to Microsoft Microsoft basically killed the company And they it was what's even crazier about that is they actually kept a lot of that rare talent around Into the release of connect and then force them to make connect games stop letting them make unique IPs Just that's my little The one thing I'll never forgive all Microsoft is when they told them out. Oh, you made even a pinata. Hey That's a really great game, but now you're done Not now you're just gonna make connect games because we need a good company to make connect games and to be fair rare Made some of the best connect games, but nobody cared about connect. So it's like you made the best games and nobody played And they were I just I just think if you're talking about a Nintendo 64 Classic should not have a Mario game on there. Yeah Ridiculous, I mean here the bottom line is that I'm not gonna try to argue that Mario 64 should be kicked off For Banjo even though I think Banjo is the better game Because I'm gonna lose that argument For several reasons obviously sales reasons. Obviously the fact that Mario 64 is really the only reason people picked up and then 64 The first two years. It was like the only game at launch. Essentially. I think there was pilot wings as well My money's 64 was like the reason it like people always talk about Oh, I heard some people argue that outside of Breath of the Wild that the switches launch lineup was weak Have you looked at the launch lineup of the n64? It was two games It's just one of those happened to be Mario 64 So like literally if you bought You know you just talk about every you know more breath of the wild copy sold that then units old I've Mario 64 probably did the exact same thing bad man Plus my 64 sold more than any Zelda game has ever sold on an individual platform Yeah, so I think what we're obviously gonna probably leave Mario 64 alone We already had the argument for Majora's mask to be at the these all the game of the list So I think what might be an interesting one is do we think at this point? I think sorry Jesse I don't think perfect darks gonna get in over Mario Kart Yeah, I wouldn't expect it to for Mario Kart But smash might be a make for an interesting debate here. They're both multiplayer games. They both were huge Smash was the first of its game on there Whereas Mario Kart started on the Super Nintendo Now obviously and we're I think we all have fond memories of both of those games of course Maybe I gave over Justin since he said he had no friends. Sorry. Sorry. I wish you were to grew up around me, man We were playing this stuff like nuts And like I would even I hate saying this If it was my choice like if this was just my top five smash and Mario Kart are gone and Pokemon stadiums in but I Don't think about my stadium Just like I didn't think it was worth me trying to argue like we had a nice debate over like when 3d platformers died Which I don't really we don't really go Hey, you know audience. You guys let us know why you think 3d platformers died I'm actually really curious on what people's theories out there are because there's no reason that Mario kept going and just no one else could do it my opinion my Simple answer is no third party wanted to compete with Mario Even Crash Bandicoot was pretty good until they had Naughty Dog move on to some new stuff Crash Bandicoot was actually like the mascot of Sony for a long time. Mm-hmm Or at least I don't know if Sony ever confirmed that I'm trying to remember it might have just been the fans considered at the mascot And maybe it was just because Mario did it well and then Sonic just tanked at it and then rare kind of tanked and then There just wasn't any company left that's good at it, but Nintendo I don't know it was actually really crazy is how long Nintendo abandoned 2d Mario Because 2d Mario games massively even throughout history outsold the number of copies 3d Mario did And even still dude to this day, but yeah, obviously that really helped them on we when they we in DS when they brought back 2d Mario So yeah smash Mario Kart 64 I'm not gonna buy I want to throw Pokemon same in there, but no one else is gonna vote for that Eric what are you thinking? Is it is a Mario Kart or Smash? Kart. Okay. I think you put Kart on there instead of Smash, I think You guys you guys gonna stick with Carter either one of you guys want to go with Smash No, I think parts to one. Yeah, Carter Okay, carts one of the 64 games that I was actually able to play with other people other people. Yeah I think I play more of Mario Kart than Smash I Could play devil's argument Advocate and try to make this big argument for smash to convince you guys But the thing is I love both these games so much. I'm totally fine Mario Kart So I think that's gonna make our list unless you guys want to bump anything Our top five as it stands now after much debate we bumped off one game Oh, this is how it started it started with two people wanting to bump off my door mask For golden I a perfect art it ended with only one game getting bumped off and it wasn't Majora's mask It was working for golden I and it also started with conquerors bad for a day Wanted to get knocked off by the same person who put it on the list Eric and then him realizing Well, it is my favorite game of all time. How can I bump it? Yeah, so our top five One game change were a long debate to get there conquerors bad for a day golden I Mario 64 Majora's Mask and Mario Kart 64 And I don't want to hear any of you guys arguing out there that Mario and Mario Kart like same franchise stuff get out of here Get out of here Alright, so you guys are good with that list Yeah, yeah, all right cool. So that is our top five for n64 Obviously you guys let me know down in the comments or let yeah Let us know down in the comments below what your top five n64 games are and what you thought of our Heated me. I knew this was gonna be heated debate Yeah, because this is why I cut it to five because five is what makes it hard if this was and we We took just as long talking about just ocarina of time and Majora's mask I'm sure we did for the entire people people have been waiting for me to to you guys asked you guys asked so I did it All Majora's mask fans out there you can thank me But then you're gonna hate me because you'll probably still think awkward times awesome and I just think it's okay