 Welcome back. This is Still Why in the Morning. Thank you so much for sticking with us. My name is Ramagukou. It's a pleasure being with you. And of course, remember we are coming to you live from the broadcasting house. We are still broadcasting live through our website. And that's at www.kebc.co.kev.y254. Engage with us. We value your feedback. Keep letting us know where you're watching us from. Right on Why in the Morning. We have a question of the day that has been posted on our social media platforms on Twitter. That's at www.y254. And Facebook. That's at www.y254. Head over to our social media handles and follow the respective and like the respective pages. Drop in your comments on the question of the day that we've asked and let us know where you're watching us from. Okay? Feel free to engage with us. You're just in time for the next conversation of the day and we want to talk about matters concerning youth and politics. As we do this discussion today, we shall take a look at the paper. I am with, to my far right, Thomas O'Barre, a political analyst and next to me, Juliet Nyabuto, a communications specialist. Thank you. How are you, Thomas? Thank you. How are you? My title changed. I'm not a political commentator. I'm an MC Elect. An MC, not Elect. I'm an MC Elected. Yes, yes. I got the news when you are vying for the MC seat and I love the fact that you won. Thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for coming. And Juliet, how are you doing? I'm doing well. You're doing well. I appreciate it. Your title is already over. It's over. 2027. 2027? Yes. How are you doing? I'm with Baba Tildian. I'm talking about Baba Tildian. Till the end? Yes, till the end. I can say we will ask him how high? How high? Inama, how low? We shall take a look at the people daily. And some of the stories making headlines today include what Juliet has mentioned. Baba Kisema Tuna Ruka. Tuna Ruka, how high? Yes. I don't know if he likes to... I don't know if he likes to... Tuna Ruka and Tuna Uliza. No, well, jump in. Tuna Ruka and Tuna Uliza, how high? How high? So, the Audium Leader, Roy Lodega has pleaded with his supporters to abandon the... not to abandon the quest for political and economic reforms. He called upon his supporters to not to give up and to keep on pushing. He observed that some of his ardent supporters were losing hope and reassured them that hope and faith are not lost in the liberation struggle. And he said this, and I quote, and I'll get this from you, Juliet. He said, hold on to your horses as we organize, as we reorganize. Things aren't still that good to be in a rush for opinions. Juliet, as a supporter of Azimil, don't you think it's time he just said, you know what, it's time to just chill, relax and just... let's see how the government is going to run? I think it's wise for Baba to say relax, I'm still here. And I don't think it's time for him to start criticizing the government or even having an opinion as opposition as yet. We're still waiting for the Kenyakuan government to do their things. We're still waiting for them to fail, sorry to say. From the first to the last sentence of whatever they're saying, because as it looks, we are the opposition, we cannot keep quiet. Baba has been a liberator for the longest time and has supported us. From now on, as Azimil, we are forming the oppositions of the opposition. And we will be with Baba till the end. At the end of the 2027, we're running. If he says, I'm giving the mantle to someone like Calonzo, we'll say we will run with Calonzo till the end. And I'm happy that Baba has spoken for a very long time. He's been quiet, he's been making short, short statements. He gives us hope as people from the Azimil side that Baba has not given up. Baba is with us till the end. So it's a very bold move. I really appreciate that. It means a lot to us as Azimil. And let me come to you, Honorable Bari. Your thoughts. First of all, congratulations on winning your MCA ticket. Thank you. I remember the last time we had a discussion. Here you were vying. It was for their lectures. Now it's after. How does it feel, since then? Nothing changed. Nothing changed really. The only thing is that we now have the responsibility to serve our people. But literally nothing changed. Nothing changed. I want to comment about what the right Honorable Prime Minister said about the reforms. I support his sentiment that we should not give up the warned reforms. With him or without him, all Kenyans should push on with the warned reforms. We are not just there as a country. And therefore we cannot relax and give up on the warned reforms. Yes. And even if I talk about not giving up on the warned reforms, I was looking at some of the comments made by some Azimil leaders. Yes. And here we are looking at, for example, Audium Chairman John Buddy and C.I.R. Senator Oburo Ginga, who had said that Rila, who lost his fifth running towards the presidency in the past election, was still a force to reckon with. Do you still believe so that he is still a force to reckon with? You cannot ignore the right Honorable Prime Minister. He himself is a government. You cannot ignore him. So he is still a force. He is still a force? Yes. Nhabutu? Still a force? Yes, still a force. Still a force. Let me read a tweet by the SC senior council, Ahamed Nasir Adulahi. He said this, and I know this will poke someone wrongly, maybe, maybe not. And I quote, that the highest elected office of Honorable Brigadier Gashagwa ever held is deputy president of the Republic of Kenya. And the highest elected office of Honorable Rila Odinga ever held is MP for Langata. Obviously, DP Gashagwa is Honorable Rila Odinga's senior. End of quote. I'll say this. We can argue on elected seats, but Baba has been Prime Minister before. His conduct speaks for himself. Gashagwa was at DC Amal Coa. And then you cannot compare that. Baba has been in politics way back since 1992, 1997, all the way we've seen his champion for the rights that we enjoy, that for Hajji to come and even make that statement. Ahmed Nasir? Yes. For Nasir to make even that statement. It is Baba that created that democracy where we are able to go and tweet online and say this and this and speak our voices. I think Rila should be respected for being, even if he's been out of government, for being even the leader of opposition and for always championing for the rights of the Kenyans. We cannot downplay Rila as a politician. We cannot downplay him as a leader. Yes, Gashagwa's role as of now might be higher. He might hold a higher office, but we cannot downplay Rila Amal Odinga. He's made most of these politicians. William Ruto is a project of Rila Odinga. So for someone like Nasir to come out and make that statement, he should also ask himself that if it were not for Rila to provide a space for Ruto to even become the leader that he is right now, him, he would, Okay, definitely he has his educated in his ways, but we cannot downplay Rila Amal Odinga as a father of democracy. He's an enigma, one of his kind. I feel like for even Ruto to get to where Baba is, it will take a very long time. For even someone my age to get to where Rila is, it will take a lot of time. It will take a lot of dedication. You mentioned giving the president himself. The president cannot fix the sanctions of the right honorable Rila Amal Odinga. Let me get you Obare. There is this debate and conversation between comparing the deputy president to Gadiga Shagwa and Rila Odinga, and some are saying who is, how do these two even compare? That debate is ongoing currently. My approach will be different. I will look at it in terms of influence. The position of Rila Amal Odinga today in terms of influence cannot match the position of Gadiga Shagwa. The two cannot be compared. Rila as a nobody today, as Nasir puts it, is more influential than Gadiga Shagwa, the deputy president. So you cannot compare the two. Yes. So we cannot say that Rila was an MP and a deputy. We look at it in terms of influence. Yes, you can be deputy but you influence no one. You can be a nobody influencing the entire country. Today, even the discussion you realize, the discussion we are having is around a person with no office. That person must be influential. John Barry said this and I quote, Rila is still our hero. He said that while Oginga was, the veteran politicians was now, John Barry said that Rila is our hero, while Oginga said that the veteran politicians was now even more energized. That Rila is now more energized. And I'm looking at what the opposition leader said. He said that the party leadership was aware about the concerns that some county governors were not delivering to the people and that this discussion came up about the cost of living now, the position of the party. Now on Saturday, sources said that we are looking at the Azimio candidate for Rila Odinga when he vied. He has been active on the political scene in recent days and at the weekend he attended several public functions in Nyanza. On Saturday, sources say that he held a strategic talks with the governors from Nyanza region and western regions and some politicians from Mount Kenya regions. But now the discussion during the meeting came up was that the politicians pointed out a number of issues and they said that the Kenyak-Kwanza administration is failing to deliver on and I'm getting you still on your barrier on the same. Top of the agenda we are looking at the cost of living and the promise to bring down the cost of living for Kenyans over a short period of time and they are saying you know what, the Kenyak-Kwanza government is failing. Remember the President said that it will be achieved after one year. Your thoughts on the same. On that I will be with the President. The economy is a very complex system and what we are experiencing in Kenya today the high cost of living is not only in Kenya. That is a world problem. It's like the world is running into an economic downturn. You realize we have the same problem that is being experienced in the US, the same problem that is being experienced in Britain. So this is an economic downturn that I think is taking place in the entire world. But is it Kenyak-Kwanza or Jubilee? Kenyak-Kwanza government. I've seen they are making few steps to remedy the situation like if you work in price of gas is coming down then basic commodities is also coming down so they are making effort in what they are doing. Though minimal but they are making progress. There is an effort. So progressively we are going to see significant changes. We hope that there will be significant change in the coming days. Okay. Okay. Let me. Juliet, your thoughts on the same? I'll take you back to the campaigns and I remember and I will quote in the first 100 days the Kenyak-Kwanza government. In the first 100 days the Kenyak-Kwanza government and this shows there is a difference between politics and governance. That was politics. That is what made people come out in large numbers to vote for the president. Because they believe that in the first 100 days the Kenyaks will be living in a much more comfortable life. It's almost 100 days. There is nothing to show. The only thing we have seen is one shilling from the people from Ipra, the petrol, one shilling deduction. So far yet we're still buying a packet of Ungar for 230 shillings. And I'm asking, in the first 100 days there is nothing to show. And as opposition, we are still waiting. In the first 100 days, and then we will go to the streets and we'll ask the president for how long will Kenyans continue suffering in this bad economy. Yes, I will argue that we do have things like the Ukraine war and COVID that are largely affecting our economy. But genuinely speaking, Kenyans are suffering. We do not scavenge who is the president. The youth are jobless. We are suffering. And kindly Mr. President, wherever you are, we are genuinely, genuinely suffering. And it will not be nice that in the first 100 days in office that the Kenyans are out there in the streets challenging your leadership. It will not look right for you as a politician. So it's high time. And then we can go back to things like fuel and all other things. But Kenyans need to eat. And if we do not look into these issues, we'll start dealing with issues of crime rate because the youth are already employed. So at the end of the day, when the MCA is working, when the MCA is working, when the MCA is working, when the MCA is working, they are not jobs. So what will I go to? Most of the youth will deal with things like theft and crime. When they are not working, how do I put it? Wash, wash and all those things. So kindly, as you had said in the first 100 days, kindly just subsidize me, translate to me, and then we'll focus on other things later. But right now the President is talking about patience. Patience, that's the word. Patience. Can you please stop her? They took over a lapidated economy. It's okay. And he can challenge and say, I heard there's a statement he made that the government, that was Babas and Hurus, and the ones that failed the economy, he should also remember that in the first five years when he was in office, him and Huru were very close and very tight. There's nothing to show in the first five years of what they did. In the remaining five years, it was even worse. We also have to remember that there are some CIS, we have some CS who have corruption cases and hey, I'm hoping all the best for this government because, Nicobard. Obar, do you agree with her? No, I don't agree with her. You know I'm a trained economist. That is why I'm saying that the government is trying. The economy is very complex. There are steps that the government is taking and the fruits of those steps can only be seen after a certain period. Hopefully by January as Juliet is saying, there will be a difference. We're hoping. You're saying by January, coming from a professional view, giving it the next few months. Give it a few months. November, December. Yeah, we're looking at 61 days. Hopefully the ripple effect of those actions will be felt by January, February. I hope we will be able to see the light of the day on that particular month because I'd like to have both of you again. We compare notes. We compare notes. We compare notes and see whether Obar's prediction is true or whether it will come to pass. I'm optimistic. The president said that he's unveiling the ASLA fund in 1st of December. That is part of the remedy of what Juliet is complaining about. And then he said that Kazik Mutani is coming back. That means that there will be circulation of money in the economy. With circulation of money in the economy, some of the complaints that we are having will be minimal. All right. And even as we talk about this, I welcome your feedback from wherever you are watching us from. Tell us what you think about some of these issues that we are handling, cost of living, cost of fuel, cost of private prices. What is it that you think? Will we see a ripple effect in the next few days as we look into the first 100 days elapsing? Remember, the Kenyan-Kwanza government administration is being accused of failing to deliver on the promises that they gave to Kenyans. That is a discussion that we are having this fine Monday morning be part of this discussion. Even as we talk about that, one important thing that we are looking also into is the CS nominees, the approved. And of course these are things that took center stage last week. So let's talk about that. Last week, CSS approved sworn in. Now we are looking at them settling down. They have left office and we are looking at the by-election that will take place in January, the 5th of January 2023. A by-election for Kandara MP, a parliamentary seat for Kandara and the MP for Kandara was Alice Wahome for Garisa Township, the parliamentary seat for Garisa Township, a by-election which will be made in Douale, resigned from that seat. We have Elgeo Marraquet county, Sen. Kibchuba Murkomen, resigned from that particular editorial seat and we are looking into a by-election that will be held on the 5th of January 2023 O'Barre, let me come to you on the same. Give your thoughts on 이것. Our CSS now they are in office. your thoughts? The by-election, that's definitely a Kenya-Kwanzaa affair. You realize those are their regions. Yeah. So we expect nothing much. We expect no, there will be no politics in that. It will just go to Kenya-Kwanzaa. Yes. All right. And the by-election is coming up? Is it too early to turn? It's not too early, but what I can say is we have hopes in the Bongoma senatorial bid. If we put our cards together and put them in a very nice box and decide to package it well as a Mew, and we hit the ground as early as possible, I am sure we can be able to get that once it. And I'm hoping as our fellow Azimions, Azimions who are at home, who come from this county, that on that day whoever Baba will front or whoever Azimio will front, that we may come out in large and vote for this particular person. So that we can continue retaining our numbers, whether it's in Senate or in the National Assembly. I cannot speak much about Kandara and Elgeo Marraquet, but what I can say is about Garisa Township. Yeah, and even as a proceed, maybe you can move your mic closer to your mouth. Oh, sorry. Well, Kenya wants to hear your position. Yes. So you're saying Kandara and Elgeo Marraquet may be a little bit tricky. Yeah. But Garisa Township, I think... If we look at who's the governor and the seats that he holds, it's an ODIM seat. So I'm hopeful that as Azimio we'll be able to front someone who is strong so that we can be able to maintain our numbers in the National Assembly. So I feel like for Bungoma and Garisa, if we put our things together and we hit the ground very well, we'll be able to get the seats here. Okay. And looking at the CSS, now that they are now that they have gotten into office, in terms of service delivery, of course there's some that have started with a ban. We are seeing a lot of comments from some. But in terms of delivery, Juliet, do you believe that these cabinets that the president has set up will work? As a politician, sometimes I look at track record. Some of these, I will not mention them. Some of these CS don't have the best track record. Some of them have matters in court. And it's so sad that in a generation like mine, we're able to front people who are not fit for a particular position and we're able to sit down as Kenyans and say, just because I campaign for who and who, I am best fit for these seats. There are professionals out there who are well-knowledged in the fields that some of them have been put in. And I felt like the president would have even thought about that before what Wengine Wapewa is Okazi. But again, I will not mention names. But a big congratulations to Ababu Namumba. Ababu Namumba has largely supported the youth. I feel like it was well-deserved on his part. My comment is simple. They have a president who is a workaholic. So I believe that he will give them the latitude also to perform their duties. With the president, the active president that I know, I have some hopes that the cabinet will work. I'm always keen on your choice of words. It's because I'm an independent. I'm not in Azimio. I am an independent. So I give very independent. Yeah. And I'm keen on your choice of words. And you say you have some hope. Some. Why some? Some hope because I know how politics can be. If you over-expect, sometimes things might not work as you think. I believe that with the Kenyakwanza government and with the working president, and having the fact that most of the CS that he chose are politicians, they understand the feelings of the people. They understand the problems that our people are going through. That is why I've said that I have some hope that these people will deliver, these CS will deliver on what they promised. Okay. Some hope. Juliet mentioned something about portfolio and the background history. Do you feel like the skeletons in the closet might affect their workflow and their past might actually come back to affect their service delivery? I don't really think so. As a country, we chose to do away with Chapter 6. So basically, you've not heard me talk about integrity. Because as a country, we chose to do away with that Chapter 6. How? We are not... We didn't implement it. It is just on paper. So we didn't tell you about Chapter 6 of the Constitution? It is not applied. So I will not talk about their integrity. I will not talk about their issues. But I believe that they have got the expertise, they have got the experience. These are people who have been members of parliament for a long time. Some of them have held cabinet portfolio. I believe that they are up to the task, regardless of the Chapter 6 issues that they have. Very funny. So we just put away Chapter 6 first. They will deliver. The country decided to do away with it. Who decided? When was that decided? If you look at even the appointments, how things are done, Chapter 6 was only implemented on Nancy Baraza. Then thereafter, we left it. Julia? I agree and agree and I can also state that on August 9th, Chapter 6 again. Alright, alright. Now let's talk about something else then. Taxes. The President is planning on ensuring that anyone who is above 18, as long as you clock 18 and you have a carapine, you get taxed. And this one came when he was defending his call to the public to pay their taxes because the government is making a move to ramp up revenue collection in its race to meet the 6 trillion Kenya Shilling collection target by 2027. Will it be met? Juliet. Again, we are taxing 18 and above. I'm 25. I am jobless. I have to depend maybe from home and a few jobs happen. Just small, small, how do I put them? Small, small contracts that keep me going. If you tell me right now I'm supposed to be taxed. And if you check my M-Pesa, I surely Mr. President. Alright, you're talking about M-Pesa and that's one interesting bit here. Because now we are looking at the caray. Some research was done. So the President was honoring why we have only 7 million people with caray, the carapine. Yet, you mentioned M-Pesa, we have over 30 million M-Pesa users. Don't you think so? Obare, let me come to you. I think you're getting the President out of context. The President in his mind, I don't think he wants to tax everyone above 18. What the President was implying is that we need to increase the tax base so that more people are brought on board to start contributing into paying taxes. There are so many people, and I can confirm today that who are making a lot of money, but they are not paying tax. There are so many millionaires I know in this country who don't pay tax. Those are the people we need to be forced to start paying taxes. By increasing the tax base, you will be questioning the poor people because our problem as a country is tax evasion. People are not paying taxes. So you're saying you're not looking at anyone above 18 but increasing the tax base? Increasing the tax base and sealing all the loopholes of people who are evading tax. So many millionaires here in town are not paying tax. That is the problem as a country. But if we can seal the tax evasion loopholes and then increase the tax base, we'll have enough money to run this country. So the carry is now under pressure because the truth is the pressure is there to expand the tax collection by issuing every adult Kenyan with a pin. See that's the target. That every adult Kenyan must have a carry pin. Whether that can be achieved or not is the question. Which would make every adult citizen eligible to pay taxes. That's what I was trying to drive at there. Because now every person who is an adult must have a carry pin. That by they must pay taxes. That will be in order. Because you realize there are people and I've said this. You are operating a bank account but I saw that feature has been included that when you're opening a bank account you have to put your carry pin. Previously it was not there. You find this is a millionaire having millions in their account but he's not paying tax. But with the inclusion of the carry pin on your bank details we can be able to track people who are trying to evade tax. If you're saying what the president is saying then I feel like the communication channel the way he communicates and says it, the way he elaborates on it should be more clear because for us if I sit down with my fellow youth and we're discussing matters to do with the same thing our issue is what are we being taxed? What are we being taxed? If you're able to elaborate and say it's the millionaires who are evading taxes it's those people who are making a lot of money and are not paying back taxes then I'm able to understand that no the government is not coming for me it's not looking for our Neta Futi they are looking for other people. I feel like he should be elaborated on how he communicates and how he puts out. For clarity purposes let's make it clear you're mentioning that the target is that Kenyan millionaire yet we are looking at a conversation where we are looking at tax reforms tax reform measures that could see every Kenyan as long as you are above 18 you get into the tax bracket by carry ensuring that you have a PIN that is the point. I have a PIN. Yes. I don't pay tax because I have nothing I got the PIN when I was doing in campus so having the PIN does not make you does not qualify to pay tax the PIN is only to identify you as a tax payer so today I luckily have started earning I'll pay tax that is the essence of the PIN the PIN is just an identifier you know that when you have the PIN you're paying tax but it was to identify you today if money reflects in my account if I'm employed formally I love to pay tax but there are people in the informal settlement people doing business with no KRA PIN these people are transacting millions of money these are the people that we need to have their details they be registered by KRA they start paying taxes Okay. Yes. Okay. I'd say this I'd prefer that his means of communication as a president should be more elaborate so that you're able to understand like you have been able to explain to us from a local man's perspective and have been able to understand that no the government is not coming for me so I feel like in the same way that he should also elaborate on how people are getting to be taxed whether it's through those millionaires who are evading taxes whether it's through small businesses that bring a lot of money now you're not being taxed but here I feel like it should be elaborate the communication should be elaborate because for us as youths we feel like the president is coming for us we feel like the president maybe is not able to run the economy so he's looking for loopholes or he's looking for ways but how is he looking for loopholes and ways and getting to you yet it is the same user as saying we need the economy to be back we need the cost of living to be brought down within a hundred days these are the measures to bring down the cost of living first and first I will go a few months back or a few weeks back to when the president said that in the Kenya Kwanzaa government the youths would even be able to get CS positions we were hoping even with the youths and sports and whatever it would go to someone else for us as youths we feel empowered but Ababu is he's right for the job I will not lie Ababu is there? he's youthful he's not youthful who? Ababu is youthful Ababu is youthful no we can argue these are different with staying young more common but being youthful more common youthful guy for me if we're talking about youthful I'm talking about someone who's 35 and below so if you're above 35 and even the constitution clearly stipulates it's 35 and below and I was hoping that there'd be a fresh blood into that government so that this kind of person would be able to address our issues as the youth but now earlier on you said that this move by the president in terms of taxation is like a move to get a loophole like feel attacked that the president is not addressing the issue itself yes exactly you see if you say so that we're able to talk so that we're able to deal with our the debt that we've had I also feel like that's not the necessary measure I cannot advise as an economist but I do not feel like it's the necessary measure right now when Kenyans are hungry you're also telling us we're going to tax you that's an anumonga 230 shillings rent me every other single day the economy is at its worst people are broke people are jobless and then again you come and tell me you're going to be taxed and for those who don't get this let me quote what the president said and I quote there are only 7 million people with care a pain in the same economy Safari comes in person has 30 million registered customers transacting billions daily the fact that this opportunity remains unclear to care a demonstrates why radical changes are necessary end of quote the president wants the number of Kenyans with care a pains to match the number of mobile money transfer customers no I fully support him you cannot run this economy by tax from only 7 million people because tax is what enables the country to run so it's not just the millionaires that's what I wanted you to anyone getting income anyone getting income give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar anyone getting income ought to pay his due tax to the state so that the state can also provide these services they are complaining about you do not expect services if you do not pay tax you cannot get services if you can't pay tax so anyone getting income as little as it may be but there is also a question that he a Chinese Anna he could square taxed if we can have reasonable income people be taxed we will be good as a country and by January we feel like it may work we have to increase the the only thing I am saying we have to increase the number of people paying taxes to the state as long as I am allowed to file my new returns at the end of the year I am good with it I am good with it due to 0.4% due to 1.5, 0.5 and there is nothing that he is entering my bank account he will not be able to pay tax he will not be able to pay tax when I sign that contract I want us to bring this discussion to a close and that's where we just end it a big thanks to Obare Thomas and Juliet Juliet coming through to discuss these matters concerning youth and politics Juliet Nyabuto Thomas Obare thanks so much for coming I want to give you time to just have a final word within 10 seconds talk to the Kenyan youth watching you today let me start with you Obare that's your camera then thank you I'll be brief the only issue I'll communicate directly to the young people of this country that let them be active in their spaces let them take up their space no one will fight for you it is you to fight for your own space it is you to define what you want as a young person for this country alright thank you to the young Kenyans out there what I want to see is let us learn to not be silent let's learn again as he has said let's learn to fight in the different spaces that we are in and if something does not sit right with you then you're definitely allowed to air your voice and your voice needs to be heard alright thank you so much and that business to the end of this morning conversation right here on youth and politics my name is Ram Magukko keep it one in the morning we still have more coming up your way