 They shut down that service. All right, and with that in mind, let's jump over to our man, Tim Ord. Folks, my dad talks to Tim every Tuesday, Thursday, at this time, and don't forget, you can always jump on over to the front page of TFNN.com. You head on over to the Services tab, and you will find, under that Services tab, two great webinars Tim's put together, the secret science of market tops. You have the secret, the six secret ratios every trader should know. Those are always available right there on the Services tab, whether you have tiger dollars or not. Haven't talked to Tim in a little while, but looking forward to it. Tim Ord, good afternoon. Good afternoon, Tommy. How are you doing? I'm doing fantastic, man. Always good to hear your voice. I'm always listening, usually, if I have the time, which I usually do on my dad's program, Tim, so I'm familiar with the breakdown, man. I got your seven charts. I know you like to get right into it, man. I love the discussion of some of these ratios you have, and where do you want to kick things off? We going to chart one or some? Yeah, we can chart one. We're actually going to both start at the bigger picture, where I keep reviewing this chart, and everybody's probably getting tired of hearing it, but you got to remind people, you got to look at the bigger picture, then you look at the little bit smaller picture, then you look at the current timeframe. So the big picture we're going to look at is a NYSE summation index, and this chart goes back to, looks like about 2007. And I marked the times, to really get a bottom, you need a selling climax, and after a selling climax, you need a buying climax. And there's a lot of different climaxes. You can do a volume climax, you can do a advanced decline climax. You can, there's a lot of different ones. This one happens to be more or less advanced decline, because summation index is basically a kind of advanced decline indicator. But now, to get a climax out of this indicator, you need a reading below minus 700. And I marked the times going back to 2007, the top chart is a summation index, NYSE summation index, and I put a red line there at the lower part there, it was 700, and I marked all the times. When minus 700 has been reached, it can go lower, but at least minus 700 has reached, you're into a selling climax period. And so all those times going back is minus 700. And the bottom window is the SPX. So the blue lines are the selling climaxes, then right after a selling climax, you need a buying climax, preferably within two months. That's ideally, you know, if you push out three months, it can still work. But to get out six months, that's just too far out. But on October 27th, we got a reading, I think it's minus 800, six, or minus 813 on October 27th. So ideally, to get a buying climax, which would confirm the bottoms in, it would be a reading above 1,000 on December 27th. Well, we did hit above 1,000 on December 27th. So that marked, this indicator suggests you made an immediate term low. So if you look back in time, you know, they all came at major lows. That's the bottom window of blue line is the selling climax. The red line is the buying climax. And most of those times, those routers lasted, you know, a year or even longer. And last time we had one in 2022. And now we got one in 2023. So that predicts 2024, another predicts next 12 months. In general, it'll be up. So 2024, according to this indicator, should be an up year. So that's the bigger picture. So let's flip to chart two. So we're gonna kind of narrow it down a little bit. Okay, I like it. I'm with you, man. We're just jumping along. Pretty interesting. Some of those, you look at those charts, chart one. Yeah, I know why you're bringing it up often. Pretty powerful chart. But okay, I got chart two up there. We're ready. All right, so chart two says this year will be up. This is a kind of a, the pattern looks like it's forming to me. I did a Fibonacci from the March, 2020, low up to the high of 2022. The market retraced 50%. And so a 50% retracement, now there's a lot of times, it's a halfway point to move up. But also I think what's forming here, we covered this chart one past two under the time show. So bear with me, but we'll get to the short term after this chart. But you know that the chart forming here, I think it's the head and shoulders bottom, which is the right shoulder formed in early 2022. The bottom came in October of 2022. The right shoulder formed in October of 2023. And we had a sign of strength through the neckline. So this potential head and shoulders bottom has an upside target around 5,700 area. We've got support now around 4,600, which I call where the neckline is. And so the worst case now I guess is 4,600 upside projection is 5,700, which is give or take 20% higher. So next year, last year was over 23% from the return for 2023. This year probably may match that or come close to matching that. So anyhow, I think the head and shoulders bottom's forming here and we're on our way to 5,700 over the next 12 or so months. So let's look to chart three. Where does that 5,700 projection come in from? Is that from the head and shoulders or can I, I'm just curious where that price, where you get that expansion up to 5,700? All right, I took the bottom of the head. And then I majored that to the neckline. Then I took that measurement and added it onto the neckline, which is 7,700. I also took the, you know, from the 2020 low, took that measurement up to the top of January, 2022 and added on that to the October low because a lot of times if the retracement is halfway point of the move, I don't know what that retracement would have been but it probably up close to 5,700 or better. Yeah, pretty close, pretty cool. So I probably should have done that to see what it is. But yeah, it's pretty close. If you tie it like an A to B leg, we're from the low up to the high of 4,800 and then you get the 50% retracement. You're talking about a leg of what? It's 2,600, 2,600. Yeah, I guess that's a little higher. Okay, this is perfect. We're gonna take a quick break, Tim. All right, we're only through two charts folks. We got at least five to go. Stay tuned. We'll be coming back with our man, Tim Moore, right after the break. We'll go away. Welcome back, Tommy O'Brien, filling in for Tom. We got our man, Tim Moore on the phone. We got the markets right now. Quick check-in S&Ps off by about 28 points right now. All the markets in the red. All right, Tim, where are we going to next? Is it... Actually, I just did that retracement. You're talking about that March 2020 low doing ABC app. Comes at around 6,100, which is about 400 points higher than the head and shillers bottom. So we'll see. But anyhow... You know what is wild, Tim, before we get, because I feel like they're almost everywhere right now. If you take the low that we got, because I was just looking at this one, it matches up. And this is the one in my head. I thought that it matched up when you mentioned it. If you take the low back there of 3,502 in October of 2022, you run that up to 4,600 in July of 2023. That, if that's an A to B though, that one is gonna be 1,100 points or so. And that's bringing you up to almost 5,300. So it's amazing how many ABCs basically, anyway, are in that market. I was looking at that one as well. But go ahead. Sorry to interrupt. All right, so anyhow, I just curious. But you know, let's flip to chart three. Okay. Okay, so now we're breaking down to the smaller time frame. So this is a weekly. And the bottom window is the VIX. And normally when the VIX is below 17, a lot of times the market's kind of in a trending mode. And when I printed this chart, it was 13 and a half or something like that. The next chart up, or the next window up is the SBX VIX ratio. This is a weekly time frame. So you kind of look and feel it's not a big, huge picture, but a bigger picture. And what's noticeable on this chart, when the SPs are making higher highs and this ratio is making lower highs, you're at some sort of intermediate term top. And all that pink area I noted, when the SPs are making higher highs and that ratio is making lower highs, you're going into an intermediate term top. And so right now, the SPs have made higher highs. And this ratio is also made higher highs. So that's a bullish, it's a confirmation of an uptrend, I guess you might say. So right now there's no negative divergence, I guess you might say. So everything looks fine. So it should actually, on an intermediate term basis, this looks actually pretty good. So I flipped to the short term, see what's going on. Okay. So that would be chart four. So intermediate term on the weekly timeframe, you look fine, a monthly timeframe, you look fine. Now this is on a daily timeframe. And so this is the same ratio. The bottom one of the SPY is the next window up is the SPX-6 ratio. If you notice over since mid-December, this ratio has made lower highs, not much, but lower highs as the SPs made higher highs. So that's the divergence, but it's on a daily timeframe, not on a weekly or anything. It does suggest that we can get some sort of a, you know, we're in a consolidation phase, I guess. Is it a major top? No, but I'm thinking at the moment anyhow, well, see today is Tuesday, Friday, the last Thursday is low, we had a high volume day. And I think at a minimum, we're gonna at least test that. And that's around 470 on the SPY, I think, actually 472, depends how that low is tested. The last 30 is low is tested. If it's tested on a lighter volume, that'll be a bully sign. And if I get some of these ratios that show a positive divergence, I could end up with a bi-signal. If we test that low last Thursday in higher volume, then we're probably gonna go back all the way to the January low, which is, I think January low is about 466, 467 down in that range. And they'll have to see what goes on there. So it's just a minor divergence. We're kind of out of the market right now. And we're waiting for some sort of a bullish setup. So I'm kind of watching carefully. How do you know that this is not gonna be like a great big smash? Well, I can tell you why. Because it's a show up, because chart five. This is just a chart five. This is the reason why we're not gonna get a big smash. The top window is a 10-day trend of the, if it was just a 10-day trend, it's 10 days added up and you take the average of it. And panic only forms at bottoms. If you don't get panic, you don't have a bottom. If you look over the last five days, not counting today, but just the last five days, every day is closed above 1.3 on the trend. Anything above 1.2, you're showing panic. And today is probably gonna be day number six, because as we're trading right now, I got a trend of 1.86. So you know, you got five days in a row above 1.3. You get a 10-day average, comes in at 1.23. So you're already showing panic right now. And the trend is basically, it's a volume and advanced decline type indicator. So it takes in quite a bit of information and it shows anything above 1.2, you're getting panic and the longer you have panic, the more intermediate term bullish that sign is. So we're not gonna, we're basically kind of crashing internally right now, even though the market hasn't moved much. So we're not looking for a market that's gonna go down five, six, seven percent. You know, maybe another couple of percent, maybe at most, maybe we just test Thursdays low, and that's it, not for sure. But we already have panic. So I'm looking for a bicycle in this region. And so, and we'll like it this week, you know, maybe at earliest tomorrow, maybe at very latest next week, but probably within the next four or five days, I'll get a signal, and most probably it's gonna be a bullish signal. So that's the reason why I don't think we're gonna go down big because we already got panic in the market. We can go on now, we're gonna put the gold on next one. That's perfect. We got a question in the title, we got a question in the title. Well, I like the, when you look at the Spy Vix, Tim, because it is interesting, I noticed on my show, which I do at nine o'clock in the morning this morning, that we got a little bit of a spike in the Vix to like a 14 handle, all things considered, that was the highest level we had seen. You know, ballparking, we had a couple of spikes. January 5th, you were up there, and your charts show it, you know, and that's what was making me think about it, December 21st, but pretty remarkable that that's actually the highest level we've seen in the Vix going back basically two months ago, November 16th, and that's when you really got the acceleration from October 27th, all that volatility got sucked out, and we've been below 14 since November 15th, but something is making that spike right now, even though we've had some volatility in prior runs. So, and that's probably what's showing up to some degree, right, at least in the shorter term on some of those ratios that you're bringing up. Right, that's actually a good point. You know, I have an indicator on the Vix that shows acceleration. So the Vix is actually kind of climbing up slowly. That's usually a death signal for the market. If it's rocking up real quick, because it's accelerating, that shows there's fear in the market, and I should have put that, I was thinking about displaying that indicator, and I don't have it right in front of me, but acceleration of the Vix is another form of panic up to that way. Because we've had plenty of days where the S&Ps are down 25, and I feel like the Vix is sitting at 12 and change, or barely 13, but something about today, man, we're up by 71 cents, we're pushing 14. Folks, we got a couple more topics to cover. We're gonna talk some gold. Tim, hang with us, all right? We got one more break. We'll come back, we'll talk some gold, folks. Stay tuned, we're talking to Tim Mord. We'll be right back. Welcome back, folks. We get the S&Ps off by 23. We're talking to our man, Tim Mord. Remember, Tim's got a couple great webinars under the services tab at TFNN. You can always reach Tim at his website, ord-oracle.com. That's ord-oracle.com, and we're gonna talk a little bit of gold in the final two minutes here. So I got chart six up here, Tim. Why don't you go for it? All right, the middle window is the premium discount for the Sprout Investment Gold Trust. So it measures, it's a physical gold trust, so you can buy gold through this Sprout deal. And what it measures, in a nutshell, when it's below minus 2%, another 2% discount from PAR, or for the price of gold, this chart goes back around 2017, you're at an intermediate term low, and all the blue lines in that chart show the times when this premium was minus 2 or below. January 2nd, we were at minus 2.3 today. We're at 2.38 at the minus. So even though the market really hadn't gone anywhere since January 2nd, it actually got a little bit lower. According to intermediate term, we should be building a name at term low because of this ratio. So let's flip to chart number seven. Okay, I got it up. And all I'm thinking is this is the, I think it's the daily chart. Can't quite read it. I think it's a weekly of the GDX. The weekly chart of the GDX. And all I think is going to happen here, we're just finding support at the neckline, and you got a 2% discount. So I'm thinking we're okay. I like it. The next rally up, you're going to find a resistance probably up around the previous highs, up around that 31, 32 range. I think we're going to build a right shoulder. A lot of times left shoulder and right shoulder are equal in time. So we could pull around here for another month or two. But I think we're probably, GDX is in the vicinity of a low right here right now. I like it. Man, that gold's always intriguing. Tim, I appreciate it. That was a quick half hour, man. Always good to talk to you. And I look forward to talking to you again. All right, talk to you Thursday. Thanks a lot. Talk to you Thursday. Sounds great. Folks, thanks so much for tuning in. Have a great night. Have a safe night. Be safe out there. And I'll see you back here. 9 o'clock tomorrow morning. S&Ps off by 21. Look at that gold contract off by 20 bucks. But yeah, I hope you enjoyed the hour. We'll see you tomorrow morning, folks. Have a great night.