 I'd like to call the common council meeting to order. This is our ninth regular meeting of the 2019 2020 council year With the clerk, please read the quote for the day. Thank you, Mr. Mayor things work out best for those that make the best of how things work out Thank you very much for that with the clerk. Please call the roll. There are nine present Alderperson Phillips is excused. Please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance And to the republic for which it stands Well, welcome everyone before we get going with the rest of our agenda I'd like to have city attorney Charles Adams. Just give us a little reminder about the rules of order for this meeting so the rules of order For the general public which also includes all the alderman and the elected officials does there are a couple things just to be aware of first of all Only the person who has the floor has the right to speak so don't react or you know Enter into applause or shout out to the person but rather just listen to the person who is speaking The people who are speaking should address their comments to the alderpersons Rather than two members of the public And we don't we don't allow banners and you know things like that in the building So during the meeting just because they can be a distraction and they can get in the way of people being able to to see so That's kind of the basics Thank you very much Next move on to the approval of minutes from the last council meeting all the person wolf Thank you mayor. I make a motion to approve second. Thank you for that motion in support All those is there any discussion on those minutes? Seeing none all those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye opposed motion passes Next we move on to a presentation, which is an update on the fresh tech innovation district by Chad Pelle check director of planning and development Thank you mayor and common council You can go to the next slide So what we wanted to do today is give you an update of the fresh tech innovation district and what's in the works and what's being planned as We move forward so the fresh tech innovation district is what's been planned for the area where the former capsule building used to be on Indiana Avenue basically east of south 9th south 10th street and the property directly west of the former Sprecher The innovation district as you can see is the mission is to provide the core programming and coordination necessary to catalyze support and invigorate the local in Innovation ecosystem you can go to the next slide So there's four major initiatives that are currently underway This is a partnership between the city of Sheboygan and the Sheboygan County Economic Development Corporation We both are these two organizations have contracted with the etude group who is currently completing a maker space study a Maker space for those that don't know is a place where people with shared interests, especially in commuting Computing and technology can gather to work on projects while sharing ideas equipment and knowledge So the idea is a place similar to a YMCA where you can pay a membership in and you can go with like Minded people and do technology things do engineering those kind of things under one roof The goal of the study is to determine a core group of residents interested in spearheading the development of the maker space in Sheboygan on a grassroots level and hopefully bring it to fruition as a place where people can Buy into and do these types of activities the second Play the second thing that the SCEDC is leading the charge on is there's 30 representatives from Sheboygan County company leaders within those companies that are developing programming centered around Information received from the innovation district summit last fall So the three things that came out of that summit that was held were 150 people came together and brainstormed on things that they Would like to see Happen as a part of the programming piece was professional and leadership development Best practices and collaboration and entrepreneurship and innovation. So the idea is that these three Groups will their subcommittee groups working on each of these core Programming initiatives and they'll be rolling out programming as it relates to those three things To try to use as a talent retention and talent attraction for our local companies. Next slide Another in another initiative of the SCEDC as they've contracted with a group called innovate to to conduct a feasibility study on how they can leverage University and college students business leaders and entrepreneurs Entrepreneurs and other kinds of innovators to work together To be able to be able to be able to bring this kind of collaborative working environment and student run businesses to the district So innovate to is a group out of Milwaukee. That's currently working with Marquette and UW Milwaukee on this type the same type of model and they're doing a feasibility study here to see if they can partner with the local institutions of higher learning and Bring that same kind of model within the district. The city of Sheboygan is implementing five or six key redevelopment initiatives in this district the addition of affordable apartment housing and condominiums some infrastructure updates relocation of existing Business and purchase of some additional real estate the addition of a pedestrian and bicycle infrastructure an update to the master plan and The addition of some new buildings. So if you go to the next slide The former Coakley warehouse as you see it today is under construction. That was the Badger state tannery that's under construction of a hundred and eighteen affordable housing units and 8700 square feet of commercial space the budget project budget for that is 30 million The project is slated to be completed sometime in the summer of 2020 and Recently the Planning Commission approved a 21 new condominium units on south pier to break ground this fall on a property east of the Sea rice coal company at the entrance to south pier at a project budget of 6 million next slide The public works department is working on the reconstruction of Illinois Avenue Maryland Avenue Commerce Street and North 11th Street Surrounding the Badger state loft that project is three and a half million I went out to bid and it came in over budget. So it's going to be rebid sometime in September and Then the redevelopment authority and the city recently approved the Purchase of the former craft 30 craft 30s currently operating in this building on 10th Street right now Their plan is to move to 908, Michigan Avenue in the fall of 2020 and then this redevelopment authority will ultimately demolish this building and Make way for some new buildings. We also have purchase offers to purchase out on two homes directly north of craft 30 To demolish those as well and create a development site at a value of a hundred and forty thousand dollars next slide The comic council recently a purchase approved a purchase and sale agreement with the Union Union Pacific Railroad to Purchase right away of the former railroad from basically Pennsylvania Avenue to Union Avenue and then adjacent to Indiana Avenue The price of that is one point two million We're currently in the due diligence phase doing a survey which will be approved later on an agenda tonight as well as some Environmental assessments the goal is to close on the acquisition of the real estate sometime in early 2020 We also are working with a developer develop the first new building in the district a mixed-use office building It will be a class a office and co-working space On the master plan the building that's highlighted in purple is where this new building would be planned adjacent to Indiana Avenue and kind of provide some of the programming space that could happen as part of these initiatives We're also working on an update to the Innovation district master plan. We had originally did a master plan for what this area would look like After consideration of not moving forward with a parking structure But trying to build a parking lot a surface parking lot, which is more cost-effective in our books is that and then the putting of the Sighting of the buildings along the perimeter because in the original plan. We did not have craft 30 in those Arid in those houses included in that So we're working with a Consist will be working with a consultant soon to update the master plan to show to perspective Developers of what the site will look like and then this is just a up as this is a repeat Sorry, this is basically providing a space for that part parking and then some outdoor programming features If you're interested in learning more and following the progress of the fresh tech innovation district You can visit fresh tech innovation comm And it provides all the updates as part of this process through the Sheboygan County EDC. So thank you Chad, thank you very much for that report Next item on the agenda is public forum And I just want to apologize that we only take five speakers at every council meeting is a maximum I know many of you have called and wanted to speak and I hope that People that are on the list will represent many of your views city clerk The first person is Ryan Berg Will you please state your name and address? Sure. My name is Ryan Berg. It's spelled B U R G and My address is 7-eleven superior Avenue Sheboygan, Wisconsin. Thank you. You'll have five minutes Good evening mayor van der steen president wolf vice president Donahue and common council members Before you tonight is a proposed ordinance banning the use of so-called reparative Or conversion therapy in the city of Sheboygan as a parent It's a taxpayer and as a person of faith. I rise in strong support of this ordinance Why you may ask? Because my wife Chris and I are parents of two amazing queer children Our youngest Alex is going to be 18 next month now his coming out story was so millennial He announced that he was a pansexual That is having an attraction towards someone regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity on Facebook Then he told us Then there was our oldest Who has given me the permission to call her Katie for the purpose of this speech? It's important a little bit later on We named her some 21 years ago We were so proud of our daughter. She was an incredibly kind-hearted a talented musician had a love of reading and an easy laugh But she wasn't living an authentic life Which graduated from high school? She was excited to go on to university for her. It was an opportunity to be independent Except the one she needed money or ride home But it didn't work out that way She seemed off While she was never the most outgoing She was more distant than before She often was depressed when we talked to her my wife and I tried to get her to open up even suggesting therapy She declined Her grades at university suffered and she was eventually suspended at the end of her first year When she returned home things still weren't quite right at least as far as Chris and I were concerned While saying she was relieved to be home instead of school things still seemed off Then last October a national coming out day of all play of all days She announced to us that they are gender fluid and Preferred to be named max This combined with an earlier announcement saying that they were asexual was a double whammy for Chris and me Well, it was more for me than for her Even though I'm quite liberal in my beliefs The thought of quote losing my little girl was hard to take. I wondered and even asked if this was a phase For those of you who have kids in the LGBT community You know, that's probably one of the worst things you can say because I can destroy them and it almost did my relationship with my child So what did I do to try to repair repair things I learned I listened I asked around I talked to people I knew in the LGBT LGBTQIA community Religious and counseling communities as well as doing my research online Nowhere did I find evidence especially empirical that said conversion therapy was effective in improving the mental health of LGBTQIA youth. In fact, I found there was a greater risk of harm when a family rejects their youth According to the American Academy of Pediatrics in January 2009 high rates of family rejection were significantly Associated with poor health outcomes on the basis of odds ratios Lesbian gain by sexual young adults who reported higher levels of family rejection during adolescence were 8.4 times more likely to report Having attempted suicide Six times more likely to report high levels of depression and three and a half more times likely to use illegal drugs and have unprotected sex This is compared to families who had no or low levels of family rejection Now I want to make it clear my one minute that I have left. I Understand the argument that as parents we should be given the maximum amount of freedom in determining what's best for our children However, the evidence from non-sectarian sources supporting conversion therapy simply isn't there. I Wish I had a lot longer than five minutes to talk about my kids as this really feels like I'm oversimplifying things They're not perfect because they live their authentic life Max and Alex have each other own issues like most of us did at their age Max doesn't clean their room and Alex needs to do his homework But they don't have the added burden of being forced to become something. They're not Something which would cause them more harm than good and with that I strongly urge you Alders to support this Tonight. Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Christine Smith Would you please state your name and address for us? Christine Smith 1628 meet Avenue Sheboygan. Thank you. You'll have five minutes. I'm in Troy Mitchell's district Hi, my name is dr. Christine Smith, and I'm a professor of psychology Human development and women's and gender studies at the University of Wisconsin Green Bay And yes, I have a long commute. I Have taught researched and published extensively on LGBT lives and experiences. It's one of my areas of expertise. I Hope you will ban conversion therapy for children and adolescents and adults Just throw that in I want to read with the American Psychiatric Association the American Psychological Association And the National Association of Social Workers has to say about conversion therapy for children and adolescents first same gender sexual orientation including identity behavior and or attraction and variations in gender identity and expression are part of the normal spectrum of Human diversity and do not constitute a mental disorder Second as my the previous speaker mentioned none of the existing research supports the premise that mental and behavioral health Interventions can alter gender identity or sexual orientation third Interventions aimed at outcomes such as gender conformity or heterosexual orientation Including those aimed at changing gender identity gender expression and sexual orientation are coercive Can be harmful and should not be part of behavioral health treatments directing the child to be conforming to any gender expression or sexual orientation or Directing the parents to place Pressure for specific gender expressions gender identities and sexual orientations are Inappropriate and reinforce harmful gender and sexual orientation stereotypes and I might add practicing conversion therapy is considered to be unethical According to the American Psychological Association American Psychiatric Association American Counseling Association and the National Association of Social Workers So in summary the professional fields to specialize in mental and behavioral health conclude that conversion therapy does not work It is harmful and it's unnecessary because being LGBT is part of the diversity of human experience So I hope you will vote to ban conversion therapy for children that lessons. Thank you Thank you Eileen Bailey You could state your name and address for us, please Eileen Bailey Address 1117 Harry court Sheboygan. Thank you. You'll have five minutes. Okay mayor Alexander steen and older people I am opposed to the proposed ban on so-called conversion therapy To me it is a ban on free speech and freedom of religion Actually a ban on truth telling I Do not think it is a necessary nor helpful piece of legislation Now I'm not here to support or promote the outdated radical treatments Practices that some people think of when they hear the term conversion therapy The ice pick lobotomies and electroconvulsive or shock therapy or chemical castration with hormonal treatments, etc However conversion therapy also includes talk therapy based on truth More recent clinical techniques used in the United States have been limited to counseling visualization social skills Psycho and analytic therapy and spiritual interventions such as prayer and support groups Parents of young children and adolescent gender-confused individuals and Really anyone of any age should be permitted to seek the therapy they desire in addition counselors ought to have the permission to give advice and information according to their Conscience School curriculum is promoting transgender as being normal There are teachers who have come out before their students as being transgender and on the increase It seems as a result children are questioning whether they're really male or female a Recent report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Suggests that up to 2% of students in high school now identify as non-binary or trans We also have the medical profession prescribing puberty blocking drugs Cross sex hormones and even surgical interventions that are irreversible medical practices Dr. Michelle Coachella Executive director of the American College of Pediatrics and a pediatrician with a special interest in behavioral Pediatrics serves on the medical committee of the Alliance for Therapeutic Choice and Scientific Integrity and has served on the board of directors of the National Association for Research and Therapy for homosexuality She is alarmed By the bombardment of the transgender messages that are being directed as youth today a study out of Brown University Demonstrated that gender confusion is socially Contagious in the same way that violence sexual intercourse sexual behavior and even suicide are Socially contagious among youth She believes that peers matter and what peers are saying thinking and doing gets Imitated and we know according to science the sex of a person is determined by the genes that individual chromosomes at Fertilization Some people might some critics might say well there are intersex conditions that must be considered But those genetic birth defects are not new sexes in other words There are some people who are using an unfortunate tragedy a congenital birth defect to promote Insanity people cannot change their gender. There are some who Bravely attempted to do so and later regretted the terrible mistake they made There are also reports that 90 percent of Trans youth if not encouraged in going down that path by adulthood will come to accept and Live there as their birth gender Milwaukee earlier this year Past its common council passed a conversion therapy ban and it Prevents anyone from helping families that want to explore all options when their child Experiences questions or confusion over their gender time of identity So I would urge that our older people vote against the ban Thank you Beth Kunard Could you please state your name and address? My name is Beth Kunard. I live at 74 Lincoln Avenue And I'm here to speak against the conversion therapy ban ordinance that you will be voting on I'm here to speak against it based on these reasons The therapy ban ordinance denies Miners and their parents the right to freely choose their own therapeutic goals They are restricted Patients who struggle with unwanted same-sex attractions or unresolved Gender dysphoria are denied access to therapy that affirms their identity and goals while patients who identify as LGBT have free access to therapy that affirms their goals When the government plays favorites in this way it engages in Unconstitutional viewpoint discrimination This therapy ban ordinance Imposes the government's own political viewpoint about adolescence and sexuality on patients and mental health professionals Secondly Parents have the constitutionally protected right To direct the care and upbringing of their children Including decisions about medical treatment The city of Sheboygan does not belong between a counselor and his client This therapy ordinance is very illogical Apparent is allowed to obtain professional counseling for their child for unwanted depression unwanted social anxiety and even unwanted heterosexual attraction but is denied treatment for the child who has unwanted same-sex attractions The language of this proposal wrongly limits the free exercise of religion Some of those who seek counseling to address sexual orientation or gender identity Do so for religious reasons That is their religious belief informs them that they should not act upon same-sex Attractions or that they should seek to live consistent with their God given biological sex and Some counselors who offer such counseling therapy likewise do so for religious reasons This proposal will limit the free exercise of religion for these patients and providers Churches and faith baked house faith based counseling centers will be charged with violating the law Just because they do not agree that the best way to help a minor struggling with same-sex Attraction is to affirm and encourage their feelings and behaviors Pastors and others have the right to preach teach and counsel consistent with their religious beliefs it is unacceptable That the city of Sheboygan would seek to infringe on that right in any way and There's also a claim been made that conversion therapy is harmful to children Again, we are not talking about very invasive horrible Processes that were done many decades ago We are talking about talk therapy and Also counseling in a religious setting There is zero scientific evidence connecting conversion therapy to any kind of tangible harm Children struggling with sexuality or those who desire for their sexuality to align with their faith should be free to Talk about these deep and confusing feelings. I Would ask that this counsel vote no on this conversion ban their Ordinance for again these reasons It denies treatment for those with unwanted sexual attractions to it is it unconscious Unconstitutionally engages in viewpoint discrimination and it limits the authority of parents to get counseling Appropriate religious counseling for their minor children and it wrongly limits the free exercise of religion in the city of Sheboygan Thank you. Thank you I No clapping up follow the rules, please Jeffrey Cunard you could state your name and address for us, please Jeffrey Cunard 74 Lincoln Avenue Sheboygan. Thank you. You'll have five minutes Okay Mayor van der steen members of the Common Council This this evening I would like to address the constitutionality of some of the things that are proposed in this law This law would restrict speech specifically between a counselor and a patient or a Person desiring counseling telling the counselor he can only speak in a certain manner This is something that has been Passed in multiple cities and is resulting in a lot of litigation throughout the nation I have a letter here from a civil liberties organization And they have laid out some of the arguments that they have been Using In this one, it's a Supreme Court Decision Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas writing for the majority Rejected the Ninth Circuit's analysis of the First Amendment in pick up and similar analysis adopted by the third circuit in King Some courts of appeals have recognized professional speech as a separate category of speech that is subject to different rules But this court has not recognized professional speech as a separate category of speech Speech is not unprotected merely because it is because it is uttered by professionals in addition Let's see here Justice Thomas continued in some neither California nor the Ninth Circuit has identified a persuasive reason for treating professional speech as a unique category That is exempt from ordinary First Amendment principles Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote a concurring opinion Emphasizing the dangers posed by legislation like Sheboygan's which targets particular types of speech It is not forward thinking to force individuals to be an instrument for fostering public adherence to an ideological point of view They find unacceptable it is forward thinking to begin by reading the First Amendment as ratified in 1791 to understand the history of authoritarian government as the founders then knew it To confirm that history since then shows how relentless authoritarian regimes are in their attempts to stifle free speech and To carry those lessons onward as we seek to preserve and teach the necessity of freedom of speech for the generations to come Governments must not be allowed to force persons to express a message Contrary to their deepest convictions freedom of speech secures freedom of thought and belief this law imperils those liberties I Believe that if the city enacts this Ban on Certain types of speech it puts itself in a position to face significant legal challenges And so I I would move that the common counsel reject this Legislation, thank you Next we'll go on to a mayor's announcements Our city green project has been quite successful lately The the headline event is the Levitt Amp concerts in this Thursday, August 8th from Six six for six o'clock till nine o'clock. We have two bands The wise Jennings will be on at six o'clock and seven o'clock Adrian and Meredith There's also some other Events that we've Programmed to a further use that green space and there's a on Saturday, August 10th There's two events in the afternoon from noon to four the planetarium on the green will be available and that evening from tenant rather four o'clock to 730 will be Some musical entertainment First the gray trio and then at six o'clock JP in the fizz will finish up We also have a new event that's taking place on Friday, August 16th And that's a night market the night market is an open-air market in the city green Offering a wide variety of experiences for all background and ages the night market will feature local makers and entrepreneurs The mix of art craft and food vendors live music games a kid's own a beer garden They will create a free and vibrant interactive place to build community while celebrating our downtown in 30 years of the SCIO's Sheboygan's farmers market This is being font sponsored by the SCIO and the Harbor Center Business Improvement District Coming up tomorrow night August 6th is our night out national night out celebration is going to take place at King Park tomorrow The event is about bringing communities together it includes food trucks music from open door entertainment refreshments and face painting by target law enforcement vehicles fire department equipment and safety and community related exhibits there also be a walk against crime which will start from King Park at 6 30 p.m. and The ball also fortunate to have the Sheboygan pops band in our community and the pops concert band was founded in 1989 to promote band music in the Sheboygan area and they perform free summer concerts Every other Wednesday the next date is August 7th starting at 6 30 Okay, next move on to the consent agenda that'll include items 2.0 through 2.2 through 2.18 all their person wolf Thank You Mary making a motion to receive and file all our O's receive all our C's and adopt all resolutions and ordinances Second thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on any of those items? Seeing none will the clerk, please call the roll for passage nine eyes motion passes Next is reports of officers and that contains items 3.1 through 3.6 and those will be referred to various committees under resolutions That will include items 4.1 through 4.10 and again those items will be referred to various committees and Under reports of committees item 5.1 is RC number 93 of 1920 by the finance and personnel committee to one's referred resolution number 54 of 1920 by all the person's not a human born authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the 2019 budget and to authorize the appropriate city officials to execute a contract with Clifton Larson Allen LLP and recommends adopting the resolution with amended contract all their person down to you Thank You Mary I've moved to receive the report of the committee and adopt the resolution with the amended contract Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none will the clerk, please call the roll nine eyes motion passes Next is item 5.2, which is RC number 94 of 1920 by the finance and personnel committee to him was referred resolution number 55 of 1920 by all the person's down a human born Authorizing the appropriate city officials to enter into a contract regarding the bulkhead line survey of the Sheboygan River and Lake Michigan Shoreline and recommends adopting the resolution all their person down to you Thank You Mary I moved to receive the report of the committee and adopt the resolution Thank you for that motion and support. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none will the clerk, please call the roll nine eyes Motion passes item 5.3 is RC number 95 of 1920 by licensing hearings and public safety committee to whom was referred general ordinance number five of 1920 by all the person's Sarnsons Acley Donahue Felde and Savaglio creating section 70-86 of the municipal code Entitled conversion therapy prohibited Regulating the practice of conversion therapy with regard to minors and recommends adopting the ordinance all the person Sarnsons Mr. Mayor I moved to receive the RC and adopt the ordinance Second. Thank you for that motion and support Is there any discussion on the motion? Alderperson sorenson Thank You. Mr. Mayor first off. I want to say how proud I am of the city for stepping up and addressing this issue I also want to thank all the citizens that have Attended here tonight and that have reached out to every single older person to express their views on this issue I also want to thank our counterparts across the state and working through the league of municipalities that have provided their Experiences in this journey on this issue as well I also want to thank the experts that have provided their feedback on this topic throughout this process We've heard and worked with especially myself have heard from counselors advocates Lawyers therapists clergy social workers and citizens with many many backgrounds to talk about this issue on both sides I also want to specifically thank those that have expressed and open up their courage and strength to come forward to share their Experiences and their impact and challenges that they've had faced due to conversion therapy Over the course of several years now There have been 19 states that have banned this abuse of practice with North Carolina being the newest state to join Currently there have been several state of several cities across the state of Wisconsin that have passed this ban as well Including Milwaukee Madison Eau Claire Cudahay Sherwood, and of course most recently Racine Bipartisan bill has been introduced at the state level as well and has been signed on by Democrats and Republicans With Sheboygan's own representative Tyler Vorpogal who represents the 27th assembly district signing on with this bill as well This ban that we will be talking about tonight primarily focuses on Protecting children and minors within our community and as elected officials. It's our moral obligation to protect children This ordinance only focuses on professional licensed therapists Which is a form of medical treatment that is highly already regulated to protect public health and the safety of children This ordinance does not prohibit or or any form of First Amendment speech or religious freedom It does not restrict or apply to clergy or individuals who provide religious instruction as well It does allow for discussing and advocating viewpoints or beliefs all over the spectrum and from everyone with different backgrounds This still allows parents to talk and work with their child and best advocate for the best advocate for their family and their needs and Seek any sort of spiritual guidance that they need What we are trying to prevent are the abusive sign practices that come from forceful quack science practices that are masked as therapy To put this in a simpler matter this ordinance only focuses on licensed professional therapists that are practicing conversion therapy The process of this ordinance if there's a licensed professional or therapist that has found practicing this the abort the Abusive form not necessarily a talk therapy or counseling that they need then the city would refer them to the state board that regulates licensed therapists There are countless professional organizations across the country that have been advocating for banning this practice and have called for this practice to be stopped at all levels of government Some of these groups include and I won't read them all but the American Academy of Pediatrics the American Colleges of Physicians the American Medical Association American Psychiatric Association American Academy of Nurses American Academy on Child and Adolescent Psychiatrics Psychiatry excuse me International Found Federation of Social Workers National Coalition for Mental Health Recovery as well as substance abuse and mental health services And many more that you can look up as well Throughout this process there's been no scientific or scholarly evidence that has supported the effectiveness of conversion therapy in 2001 the Surgeon General even stated that there's no valid scientific evidence That sexual orientation can be changed in fact this practice can be very harmful on minors which for survivors of this harmful practice We have seen a large increase in depression anxiety drug and alcohol abuse as well as homelessness and a wide variety of other mental health issues This or this ordinance really addresses the public health issues in a preventative matter We are now several years into an opioid epidemic and we need to do whatever we can to prevent youth from being casted out and left out from being And being caught up in any form of abuse for them to be more susceptible in drug related activities and coping mechanisms Our city has a lot more work that we need to be done to be more accepting of all people And every day I work with victims of abuse and it's important to stand up and address any type of abuse No matter what form it comes in and conversion therapy has been labeled as a very much form of psychological and in some instances physical abuse Child abuse thrives in environments and encourages that encourages denial and ignorance and it's our duty to stand up and prevent that one accepting child One accepting excuse me one accepting adult of an LGBT teen can reduce the rate of suicide by over 40% Imagine what message we'll send LGBT minors in the community if we pass this measure In a recent local poll 55% of LGBT people have expressed verbal or have experienced verbal harassment in Sheboyin County one third of LGBT students in our school district alone have experienced physical harassment and abuse within the schools We still have so much more work to do. I do want to share specific message message that I did get it from a constituent I leave his name out for Confidentiality but I wanted to thank you for being a sponsor of this legislation as a newer member resident of Sheboyin and the LGBT community myself The fact that this issue is being considered makes me feel much more welcome in this community I ask that we all support this measure and I ask that you take a stand against child abuse and support having an inclusive community That improves our city's quality of life With that statement being said I will hold the floor and I do have some questions Regarding some of the language for the bill and I'll ask the city attorney to provide Some input so I'm going to make three points trucks. I'll bear with me here So one of the first questions regarding is the fee component of folks that accept a fee for this practice Can you talk about? the the fee process and what that would entail what Exemptions or what would religious counselors be impacted by this and what impact would have on religious components as well And then what types of efforts are we sort of defining as conversion fit therapy and abusive practices? It's sort of differentiate between the abusive and then the talk therapy and one-on-one sort of normal face-to-face counseling So that's my first statement any questions Go ahead So I think I got your questions down. I Think your first question was to ask about the fee component and in 70-86 sub a Sub 1 it does indicate that Conversion therapy is defined in our proposed ordinance to mean any practice or treatment offered or rendered to consumers for a fee So what that means is that in order for it to be considered for a practice to be considered Conversion therapy it would need to be a practice or a treatment It would have to be offered or rendered to a consumer and it would and there would have to be a fee attached To that rendering of that practice or treatment I understand from speaking to you before that there was some concern about whether simply someone the fact that somebody is Paid to do something whether that in some way means that they have accepted a fee That's not the case. They in order for this In order for a practice to be considered conversion therapy there would actually have to be money changing hands for that specific practice the parent Would have to give money, you know money in exchange for that particular Conversion therapy so it would not cover things like You know a church a church elder Simply, you know providing counseling simply because the church has received offerings that kind of thing that would not be for a fee I Think your second question had to do with how this would affect religious counselors and again that gets into the definition of Conversion therapy, which is your third question. So I'm gonna kind of handle those together. I think that makes the most sense So we do define conversion therapy and it starts with what what I've talked about. It's a practice or a treatment So it so it does actually Limit it to something that is considered a practice or a treatment simply advice is not a practice or a treatment Simply giving an opinion is not a practice or a treatment And it's my opinion that that would not be covered under this ordinance and could not be prosecuted as such It does include psychological counseling that seeks to change a person's sexual orientation or gender identity so the most important piece there is that The definition of conversion therapy is an attempt to actually change that person's sexual orientation or gender identity The reason that that's important is oftentimes What peep peep I think there is some concern Again, that regular counseling where you're just helping somebody to cope Would in some way be considered conversion therapy and as I understand the definition as it's Been provided in this ordinance that would not be considered conversion therapy Therapy because it is not specifically designed the the direction isn't to change the the Behaviors or gender expressions to change a person's sexual orientation or gender identity and so in general religious counselors are what they're doing is they're Providing information about religious beliefs. Obviously. There are many different religious beliefs even among people of the same religion and They're encouraging people to you know have a faith component to their life as I read this definition of conversion therapy. I I think it would be Rather unlikely I can't say a zero chance, but rather unlikely that a religious counselor is actually engaging in conversion therapy for a fee Because they're doing something a little bit different. They're providing counseling and generally At least when you're talking about a religious counselor from a church, they're not charging a fee to do that So based I hope I answered your questions, but if you have any others to follow up, I can hopefully answer them Anything else elder person sorenson not at this moment. Thank you very much older person Donahue Thank You mayor as an initial piece. I want to speak to some of the constitutional arguments that are The citizens spoke about tonight, you know the jurisprudence of freedom of religion versus freedom of speech Really is Accelerating I think within the American legal system and provides some interesting complex difficult to resolve issues As to how we accommodate competing interests however, I Think Well, maybe I feel even more strongly than attorney Adams I think that the Sheboygan County conversion therapy being prohibited ordinance Will not cannot and should not be a vehicle for any jurisprudential Examination of those issues and the reason is people need to actually review what the ordinance has to say I Think By a careful reading of the ordinance We can resolve a lot of concerns and questions I had a I've had as I think most of the alders in the room here have had a number of conversations with people today and a very thoughtful person talked to me about How do you draw the line between Someone who is really exploring or feels depressed or whatever and how does this particular ordinance impact that and I think that sub a sub 1 says Specifically that conversion therapy does not include counseling that provides assistance to a person undergoing gender transition or counseling that provides acceptance support and understanding of a person or Facilitates a person's coping social support and identity Exploration and development and then it goes on with the exclusion as long as such counseling does not seek to change an individual's sexual orientation Or gender identity as as attorney Adams said The caller and I both agreed we both chuckled a little bit that you know, it's As we grow up we go through a lot of different transitions And we have a lot of questions and such and the good thing about this particular ordinance is that it in no way shape or forms form Constricts eliminates Constraints that kind of therapy the second point that I think is important Is to really emphasize and I thank attorney Adams for clarification about a fee what we're talking about here are licensed therapists who Provide treatment to children adolescents adults whomever Those people who are licensed therapists are governed by and I suppose in a sense their freedom of speech is somewhat restricted by a Code of ethics many professions have codes of ethics and that would include doctors physicians nurses social workers Psychologists financial planners I understand engineers might have a code of ethics. Although I can't speak to that exactly but and the reason for this is that we understand that these people do very important things and interact with people in very important ways and Just like I can't stand up in a theater and yell fire without my free speech being impinged upon by a disorderly conduct charge those kinds of professionals are really need to be very thoughtful considerate and adhere to basic rules about the practice of of their profession as Alder Sorenson said multiple and I believe dr. Smith multiple Therapeutic organizations have taken the position that is an ethical violation to practice Conversion or a parative therapy so What we're looking at essentially is if we had a therapist a Certified licensed therapist in the city who was performing this kind of of therapy the the remedy the way we would solve that problem is to Report that person to the state of Wisconsin's I'm not finding it exactly the state of Wisconsin's regulation department Those are the folks who look over the licenses of many professionals so constitutional challenges here based on the careful definition and the Specific carving out of exceptions. I think truly shields this from any kind of constitutional Concern but even more importantly and this is just what I want to say to wrap it up To my mind and why I'm supporting it And I respect the folks who aren't I really do but the reason I'm supporting this is that I Grew up here and this city has changed in the most marvelous and wondrous kinds of ways It challenges us those of us who are the oldsters here But enormous doors of diversity and inclusion have been opened in the city And our city is prospering as a result I mean multiple the mayor is always sending us a new accolade that the city has received You know 10th best city in this in in the state to live in and ARPS says this and another organization says that We are doing well in holding ourselves out as an important Interesting Vibrant place to live we need among ourselves I think to be open and affirming and inclusive of all people and I think that in this this ordinance is very very limited on its face, but even this limitation I think sends a message of welcome and Protection to the LGBTQ community and that's why I'm firmly in favor of it. Thank you for your comments discussion I Like many of you had go ahead all the person boring First of all Just a little background on how this thing came about is this went to Alderman sorens is a public safety committee And it's my understanding to talk talking with one of the members of the committee that there were no members of the public there To give any testimony at the committee level and it was voted on unanimously in committee I understand and even myself I probably neglected to look at that agenda or I perhaps would have been there at least to listen in This type of a topic Historically in my 13 years on the council that creates a lot of public interest in my opinion should have gone to the committee of the Hole and for the audience that doesn't know what the committee of the hole is that's when all of the alderman get together to discuss Topics of interest to the public where we have an unlimited amount of time To listen to the public on both sides of an issue and in this case, I would have hoped that it would have brought in professionals in the Psychological field it would it would have had it invited clergy members of all faiths to give their opinion on this So and and and talking to the city clerk today. We had five people that spoke tonight She had 12 on the waiting list As backups in case somebody didn't show up and many many many many many more phone calls of people that wanted to speak tonight that did not have the opportunity so That that I felt is a shortcoming and I'm not prepared to make a motion on that at this time But I think we should think about this that we should open this up to the community that everybody that wants to speak has a chance to speak I think one of the people that spoke on the public forum I Believe it was mrs. Trying to read mrs. Bailey made some very very good points on what? This therapy is now compared to what it was years ago and my great concern is that When people go in to talk to their clergy and get counseling from the clergy and then they go to other Professionals and these other professionals are not really able I Think by this ordinance to give you what I would call neutral therapy in other words talking to the child and In depth of when when when this these feelings started and how they progressed and to me the way the ordinance is written particularly in Whereas number four it seems to give more preference to Being pro that lifestyle rather than being more neutral and I have a real problem with that and As the as the speaker said in the public forum Conversion therapy is not what it used to be some of those horror stories from years ago with with some of those very various treatments and I think Professionals should have the opportunity to give a balanced therapy look at all aspects of of what the child is going through I also have a question for attorney Adams attorney Adams Looking at the statutes the state statutes that have to do with psychology Psychiatrists and psychologists. I understand that maybe their quote of ethics Maybe says something about conversion therapy But a quote of ethics is not a state statute if we if this would pass and we would refer somebody to the state The way the statutes for the licensing board for psychologists and other therapists is written Is it illegal? According to those licensing boards for those professionals to do conversion therapy and just to follow up on that before you answer I find it odd that the state legislature in the last session would have a bill never got a vote And there's another bill bipartisan bill which I'm glad to see that's coming through again Why would the legislature go to the trouble of having bills if it's already covered by the licensing boards of these professionals? Thank you so your question is what would be the result of a referral to the state of Wisconsin and You're right that there the state of Wisconsin has not banned conversion therapy in and of itself however the division or the Department of Safety and Professional Services does regulate therapy services and Likely what would happen would be an investigation Done into whether they're violating Any of the regulations not simply the statutes because as you probably understand the state statutes You know There's only a couple thousand pages of them. There's hundreds of thousands probably of Regulations and there would be a determination made if the in the very specific situation that's being referred to them Whether there was a violation of the regulations under which they practice Does that mean that in every single case? There will be a determination that a particular Reason that you know a particular referral will result in some kind of punishment from the state No, it doesn't mean that in the same way that a referral to the police when there's a belief that somebody has violated a Criminal statute or a or a city ordinance doesn't always result in a prosecution So but there there are regulations that would be looked into and frankly because we're limiting this to Licensed professionals my understanding is that the concern basically is to make sure that the licensed professionals are acting up to the professional standards and generally the belief is those who the proponents of this ordinance is that those Licensed therapists who are actually practicing conversion therapy are likely not meeting the professional standards of their practice But the state would have to make that determination Thank you Is there any other discussion? As I said earlier, I've got a lot of phone calls from a lot of people on this issue all the person Sarnson Okay, and You know many times when we consider ordinances like this we look at enforcement. How do we enforce this? So if somebody is providing that service and obtains a payment for it How are we going to know? If somebody hears about it, and they come and tell us about it Chuck, what do we do? How would we manage that? well, so and that of course was the rub in drafting this ordinance because There are there have been a number of different proposals as to how to enforce it this our current provision actually builds on the Village of Shorewoods Shorewoods provision which basically says that if we get a complaint like that it gets referred To the state of Wisconsin Department of Safety and Professional Services So there would not be a citation issued but rather the enforcement taken is a referral to the professional agency that that regulates Those counselors so if we get a third-party person accusing somebody then we would that would initiate that action Yes, we would make that referral I would imagine that there would at least be a basic determination of whether there's any You know I mean some somebody could not just simply come in and make a baseless complaint, but I think based on at least a You know a basic level case that this is happening We would then simply refer it and the remainder of the investigation would fall upon the state But would we in trying to determine that have to have our detectives department to investigate that Again, that's going to depend on the specific allegations Being made, but it would not require that no and then when you were responding to all their person sorenson You said something about we would be prosecuting someone. Where does that come into it? My prosecution just simply means enforcing an ordinance Okay, thank you all their person sorenson. Did you have any other comments? Go, please go ahead Thank You. Mr. Mayor. I'm just kind of responding to all the person board's comments before This ordinance as it's written would not prevent any form of balance therapy or any form of talk therapy As we stated before as well that still will be allowed the ordinances that is written Not really looking at the where as his cause more looking at the ordinance in itself this only focuses on On the specific practice that is looking to push a certain way And if that is done by a licensed professional so I Am I correct in that sort of assessment the attorney Adams to that the way that the ordinance is written that sort of balanced neutral still talking? One-on-one getting spiritual advice all that stuff is still allowed that that's my read of it. Yes. Thank you Thank you. Oh go ahead Still have a continuing comment I do I just want to quick summarize a quick statement that I did get from another constituent as well too Today as you vote to discuss this important issue Called conversion therapy against is against the code of ethics of the psych psychology Psychiatric social work associations deemed as having a traumatic side effect on those in this practice on in this in addition of the facts That is not possible for people's understanding or sexual orientation or gender identity evolves as we all do evolve Yes, but it is not short-natured Supported or formed nor condemned or should be forced out of people morality is A futile and abusive practice and the abuse of practice that is questioning the dignity and worth of people and people who are we who Inherently we are it is also making a narcissistic and moral assumption that we know more than our maker in my faith as We are made by gods and God's image and likeliness no mistakes or accidents of all of us I know that God that I have studied and worked and loved for all these years on conditionally firms and didn't condemn any form of life Genders or attractions they make all all of us imperfectly They know that we are worth of love and safety and they're still speaking as far after as the church United Church of Christ is concerned conversion therapy Especially when practice on minors is questioning the validity of God's design and God's rationale a love of all of us And the statement was prevent provided by Reverend Lex Cade white, which you wanted me to share tonight as well Again, thank you Thank you all the person boring. Thank you again mayor I forgot to refer to the eighth whereas in the document and I'll just read it and then I have a question about it Probably for the city attorney Whereas data from the state of Wisconsin youth risk behavior survey YRBS done in 2017 indicates that 41 percent of youth survey surveyed that our LGBT have considered suicide versus 16.4 percent overall one and two lbgt students reports depression versus 27 percent Overall and 67 percent of lb lgbt students report anxiety Versus 40 percent overall my question is attorney Adams The statistic that I that I just read off that does not infer that this group has had conversion therapy Where did those? Why was that put in the document? so the whereas clauses are in there basically to provide a basis for why the city is at Wanting to pass this ordinance, so you'll have to make the determination for yourself whether that's You know whether that's a valid connection to conversion therapy The whereas clause, you know, it is just that it's a whereas clause that provides information to help You make a decision one way or the other But that's not it that's not an inference though that those statistics are indicative of somebody that's gone through Conversion therapy you can infer whatever you'd like out of them and you can infer them. Yeah Nobody's telling you to infer one conclusion or another out of them. I Just want to I just want to say that I appreciate all the calls and emails that I received over the weekend and It was about 50-50 on people that wanted it banned and people that didn't want it banned I'm not going to support banning it tonight However, if I would get more information Possibly through a committee of the whole meeting for for some from some professionals and clergy members I may I may possibly would vote to ban it but on what I've heard so far From constituents and the people that I've heard tonight at the public forum I am not going to at this time ban the conversion therapy So just to see if there's support out there for this going to the committee of the whole for further discussion I'm going to make a motion that this would be referred to the committee of the whole It's nice. We have a motion and a second to refer to the committee of the whole Okay, so this is not debatable I'd ask the clerk to call a roll. I is to refer correct Three eyes six nose Motion fails So we're back to the main motion that's on the floor. Is there any further discussion? Other person Felde Thank You mayor I'm speaking on my support for banning conversion therapy I am on the licensing hearing and public safety committee and we did discuss it there And there were there was no one there to speak for against we did ask some questions of the attorney I've received a list of all of the professing professional organizations that are opposed to Or in favor of banning conversion therapy There's some very prominent organizations there and as Someone who worked in education for almost 30 years I have a deep understanding of Teenagers and the struggles that they go through in those years raised two of my own children It's not an easy time for them and we're not telling the parent what they can and cannot do for their child We're just telling the therapists more or less where their boundaries are at least That's the way I'm taking taking this all to be happening and I apologize to all the constituents that that phoned and emailed me answered as many as I could And for those of you that I didn't get back to I did keep track and the same as All the person born It's coming pretty close. It's about 50-50. So I guess I'll be voting my conscience. Thank you Thank you for your comments Did you want to speak okay any other discussion Seeing none will the clerk, please call the roll eight eyes one no Motion passes Next item on the agenda is general ordinances item 6.1 through 6.3 will be referred to various committees under matters laid over Resolution 7.1 Is resolution number 53 of 1920 by all the person wolf and Ackley officially recognizing the end park neighborhood association? All the person wolf Thank You mayor I'm looking to To request and adopt the resolution and I also want to state that this is another example we'll take a brief remiss until We emptied the gallery All the person wolf. I think you can continue then. Thank you mayor first off I'd like to to thank the the neighborhood group called end park association and welcome them to hopefully welcome them to the Neighborhood Association They've worked very hard just like others and we're looking forward to having more neighborhood associations So I I ask that we adopt the resolution Second thank you for that motion in support would the clerk, please call the roll I'm sorry Chad. Thank you for those comments Chad All those in favor of the motion, please signify by saying I I opposed motion passes Our next item with other matters authorized by law I'll turn it over to our city attorney Charles Adams 8.1 is an RO by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending December 31 2019 June 30 2020 and June 30 2021 that'll be referred to licensing hearings and public safety committee Next is the contemplated cool closed session all the person wolf Thank you mayor. I make a motion to convene in closed session under the exemption provided in section 19.85 sub 1 sub e Wisconsin stats where competitive and bargaining reasons require a closed session related to the possible sale of city-owned property at 229 South Pier Drive second Thank you for that motion in support Look a city clerk, please call the roll for closed session nine eyes Motion passes will take a two-minute recess and reconvening closed session shortly For the people viewing tonight, this will end our transmission and will be a journey in closed session