 Welcome to this Open Education Special Interest Group call webinar entitled Transforming OER Into Accessible OER. My name is Alex Bellin and I will be chairing the session this afternoon. In the chat box we have a bit of a question that was asked before we started the recording and that was if you could please just provide details of your current job title so that the speakers will know how to pitch the rest of the session and the content and whether or not they need to go into more detail or less detail as the session progresses. And this is the second of two Open Ed SIG webinars taking place during Open Education Week. The next one takes place on the 11th which previews the OER conference and can be found within the details of the link that's provided there. The session today is going to focus on how students with disabilities and their need to access resources that are suitable for their requirements. They need those resources in order to have access to educational content and universities, HEIs are obliged to provide them. So the question that we pose then is can OER provide a solution for both students and for institutions themselves? Our speakers today are Abby James and EA Draftin both from the University of Southampton and they're going to be looking at how learning and teaching materials can be released in accessible formats and accessible ways with minimal effort required from all involved. They're also going to go on to speak about some existing projects that they're involved in involving OERs and MOOCs as well. But first up we've got Alistair Macnaught from JISC. He's going to talk to us about the best practice to embed accessibility across all resources whether they're OERs or not and to develop a culture of inclusive thinking. So over to you Alistair. Okay, thank you very much. I'll see the video. Yeah, this video is working. Yes, thank you very much. I want to start by looking at the big picture. So if it looks like I'm turning away from you from time to time, it's just because I'm working on two screens so I will try to look at you most of the time. So what I want to look at is just some background information really to set the scene for the others. The others are going to be doing much more interesting, much more detailed things than I'm going to be covering but it's still important for us to give a context. So this is the context. The big picture is that some 50 to 60 percent of your students who had support over the last 20 years or so via a Disabled Student Allowance will no longer be getting in. So this is a really big change that I think most universities are kind of beginning to respond to and some have been responding for some time. But it's really going to affect quite a lot of students. Statistically speaking, we're probably talking about 500 students if you are an average sized university. Now the statutory code of practice that you can see on the screen here talks about where a provision, criterion or practice places a disabled person at a substantial disadvantage and this relates to the provision of information. It is reasonable to ensure that the information is provided in an accessible format. Now the services that we provide as educators of course are all about the provision of information and so the statutory code of practice just enshrines and embeds this reasonable expectation that information that you provide for students will be available in an accessible format. That's a really important starting point for us. So OERs, open educational resources are therefore actually incredibly helpful because if we're trying to fulfill this requirement that information is provided in an accessible format, we can be in a situation where we have our own information and you can see on the screen there I've got my text rich resource. Now maybe that's just the resource that I created. It's the way I do things. It's my teaching style and yet because I can pull in resources from other places, other organizations, other practitioners, I might also be able to have her image rich resource and his video rich resource and somebody else's audio rich resource. And straight away without me doing very much work other than a little bit of looking around and being familiar with good sources of open educational resources, I can end up providing all kinds of links for really differentiated teaching. So my blind student, my dyslexic student, my deaf student can each get information on a particular topic in a way that suits them. So OERs are helpful but I also want to drill down a little bit deeper because OERs might be helpful. It's not a given. They might be helpful if the resources that you link to or the resources that you create yourself allow for certain things to happen. I'm focusing on text largely in the next few slides because at the level that I think most of you are going to be working text is a core component of a lot of your materials. So let's have a look at whether the text is actually helpful or not, whether it's been designed in such a way. So can you magnify your resources? And not just can you magnify them but if you look on the screen here, let's get the point a bit. I've thought screenshots of PDFs in this case as you'll probably recognize but of course this applies to any kind of format you're using. Can you take that? Can you easily have a learner magnify it? But magnification is only a starting point. Magnification is useless or very largely useless. It then condemns you to a life of left, right, up, down, scrolling. So when you magnify your text, does it allow reflow like on that right-hand side so that you're only having to read within the page width? That would give you a really useful OER. And what about this? Can your resource, your text-rich resource actually output in a different format? Can it output as text-to-speech? Now that doesn't mean to say you have to create some amazing audio-supported resource. It could simply mean that your text is selectable. And the number of times I have got really frustrated because I've been kind of working with perhaps a resource that's been created as part of a big funded e-learning project. And I think I just want to try that on text-to-speech. I try to select the text and I can't do it. And if I can't select the text, can't copy it to the clipboard, there's a whole host of free text-to-speech readers, commercial readers, et cetera, that simply will not work with it. And this is surprisingly common. And I was working on a resource probably 18 months ago where the resource had been created in Storyline Articulate and it looked fantastic. It looked really good. But if you tried selecting the text so that you could have it reading, it was impossible. So can your text either read out directly or read out indirectly through a third-party tool? What about this one, the ability very simply to change colours, change background colours? Now again, so many of the kind of professionally produced resources that I come across will allow you to do kind of quite clever things. But actually it's something really simple like changing colours or contrasts. It's not built into it and that is just not really helpful. Will it allow you to navigate more effectively? Your OERs will be much more useful and much more helpful for a wide range of learners, especially those with disabilities, if you're not condemned to reading through a whole list of text or a whole page's worth of text in order to get to just the tiny little bit that you want. Now on a PDF document, for example, it's very easy to use bookmarks in a Word document, very easy to use heading styles, so that you automatically get these navigational pains. Now whatever system you use, whether you've got menus down the side or across the top or hyperlinks, your OER will be more helpful if you've got that navigation, that granular navigation. And more importantly, if you can get into it without having to use a mouse, that suddenly opens up to a whole load of new people who are perhaps going to have difficulties with mouse movement. And has it been tested with an assistive technology is also a very useful question to ask. And then the last one on the OERs might be helpful is what about your images? If you've got lots of images in there, are your images either tagged with an alt tag so that the screen reader user will be able to get the information about what the image is showing, or it doesn't have to be in an alt tag, it could be in the body text, just a really good description of the purpose of the image, or it could be in a caption. But one way or another, are your diagrams that need an alternative text getting it? Now that question is a question you may very conceivably say I don't know because I don't know which of my diagrams needs text. And this link here, the diagram.hero.ku app, et cetera. I'll pop that in the text chat pane in a moment. That is a fantastic resource that actually takes you through an image. It's got lots of training images on there and you can work through lots of different styles of images, see which one is closest to your image, and then go through a series of questions that will help you work out what kind of description you need to give to your image, or indeed whether or not it needs a description at all. Okay, so we've established that OERs can definitely be helpful by giving you a wider range of resources to call upon, to meet a wider range of learning preferences and so on. We've established they might be helpful if they are created appropriately with appropriate awareness of accessibility. But that also brings us to a really critical point, which is if you are not an accessibility expert, and a few people are accessibility experts, you're teaching experts, learning experts, you're experts in a subject, you're library and information experts, all sorts of things, but you're probably not an accessibility expert. So you don't really need the burden of having to kind of go out and work out what kind of tools will provide what kind of output. Ideally, you want to know that any tool that you're using has got some kind of basic level accessibility that's going to work. So the content creation tool really matters and this is where e-learning teams have a very important role to play. And there is – I'll give you more information on this in the text chat because I've done a blog post recently. I can find my text chat on our accessibility and inclusion blog. If you were to – sorry, that resource I've just popped in there is a slightly different one. That's on checking the accessibility of OERs and e-books and other sorts of e-resources. The one that's going in now is the one I was talking about, the blog post. The slide here is summarizing the key points really in terms of what to look for in the content creation tool. And I would say that for good, open educational practice, you want to use an open source tool. The reason for that is that if you've got a commercial tool that is only in the hands of one or two people who have got the license and have got the skills to learn it and so on, then you're probably going to be limited in the number of staff that are able to create quality learning materials. So being open source, being license free is really important. And not only that, that allows you to then flip the teaching and the learning so that the learners themselves can be creating resources. We can be teaching them OER type practice. It's great if your tools got built in accessibility. Some have, some haven't. And of course the reality is that the accessibility profile changes from time to time because you get another set of features added and that sounds great, but then you realize that adding the features has had a knock-on impact on accessibility. And so it's not just the question of what's my tool like now, but it's what's the commitment of the developers of the tool to continue to make it accessible. Something that's easy to use, familiar editing options, something that's template driven and again lots of e-learning teams really like high-end content creation tools because that's what's appropriate to their skill level. It's not really what's appropriate to the skill level of your ordinary tutor and lecturer. So we need to be thinking holistically about what's good for the whole organization. And then some of these collaborative type things. Now I'm going to do a quick plug here to say that there is an open source contender that does all of those things and does all of them well. And that's 30 Toolkits. If you haven't come across it, it's well worth having a look at that. And in fact there is a 30 conference coming up very shortly. I think the early bird is in April. The early bird bookings end in two days' time. If you're interested there's a link there. But that is a content creation tool that I would certainly commend that you have to think about because it's got a range of inbuilt accessibility. They're working on improving the accessibility at the moment with having had some feedback from screen reader users recently. And it ticks a number of those boxes. So the end point for me is OERs theoretically are brilliant for accessibility just because they give you that broader range. And it's a really excellent starting point to be looking at OERs. But think about how you create them or how you evaluate the ones you're looking at. Now over to my esteemed colleagues. I'm not sure which of you is going first. Thank you, Alistair. Hello, it's Abby here from Southampton. We're doing a triple act today. We quite often, two of us, Alistair and myself, or yeah, we all mix together. Thank you, Alistair. That was a really good introduction. I just wanted to add for those of you who've got a more technical background developing online resources that are to open source WYSIWYG plug-ins for authoring which currently meet the most recent Accessible Guidelines. And that is TinyMCE MCK Editor. I'll just drop that into the chat pane. So if you're looking for plug-ins for websites, those two are currently the leading providers on the accessibility front. So I'm going to talk for 10 minutes or so about creating Accessible Open Educational Resources and more about if you're setting out on the process of authoring them what you need to consider. And why you may need to consider a few more factors because they are open. So my first slide is a bit of a caution sign. I think I say that from the position as an educator that often if you are creating educational resources for your students, you know the audience, you know how you're going to present those. You know pretty much the requirements and how you're going to share those files and what platform they're going to be put on. But as soon as you make those educational resources open, then that factor is out of your control. So the double whammy really with accessibility and open educational resources is you have an unknown audience. So how will your materials be repurposed and how will those materials be accessed and by whom. That means that you have no idea what potential issues may arise in the future. For example, if I had a hearing impaired student in a class, I would avoid audio presentations or make sure that they were able to access them. But as soon as you're making that materials open, that's potentially going to cause a problem. The second issue with open educational resources is that you don't know how they're going to be shared. You don't know what platform they're going to appear on. You don't know what support is going to be provided. And the final unknown is liability. And some of you may have heard of a legal case that's ongoing in the US at the moment where a deaf group have sued Harvard and MIT over their online courses because of lack of captions. And this case is still progressing and is being taken through the courts. It hasn't been thrown out yet. And this is an issue where the education providers have said, well, it's open. We don't believe we have to provide full accessibility. And the courts are saying, no, actually, you have to ensure that accessibility is fully built in. We may not be in that legislative environment in the UK, but your resources may then go beyond to be used in other territories which may have more stricter legislation. And from a user of open educational resources explicitly stating how accessible your resources are and what standards you have worked to help both authors that may go on to repurpose your materials and students, even if it means saying that you have not put any accessibility in. It means somebody can come along and improve the resources and also students can find out if they are able to access it. From students that we work with, one of the biggest problems they have is encountering materials and resources and not knowing whether it's accessible or not and spending a lot of time trying to access things to which in the end they're not going to be able to get the required content out of. So when it comes to incorporating accessibility, we need to think about another factor as well called usability and that's often thought about in terms of interface design and visual design, but it is also an issue with accessibility as well. Often we can find resources and tools that are technically accessible and meet all the standards such as the W3 standards and the WCAG standards, but they are still not usable to those with disabilities or even the general public themselves. One toolbar I was testing earlier this week was perfectly accessible with a screen reader, it was a little pop-up editing toolbar which I wanted to access with a keyboard with a screen reader telling me which buttons I was able to, I was on and I could activate, but as soon as I turned off that screen reader, I couldn't tell which button I had selected because there was no visualization of where I was focused on that toolbar. So it's actually a usability issue. And even beyond accessibility, I'm sure many of you have experienced websites and resources on mobile phones or smaller screens which become unreadable because of the lack of space. So we need to think about usability as well as accessibility. And often while responsive design in mobile phone type sites improve accessibility, allow for zooming, sometimes content gets lost. And generally a general rule is PDFs are the worst-case scenario for trying to build accessibility back into at a later stage whereas if we have HTML content that can be added to and adapted and created in more adaptable ways going forward. So reusable or repurpose, I've got an image on the screen that I found on an open educational resources site. It's a lovely picture of beach which is, I have to say, where I would rather be today, although the sun might not be shining. And when I downloaded that image, it had an alt tag which says, sure, sandy beach, cloudy, ocean sea, beach, seascape. Wonderful if I want to search for that image. There's all key words that I might be able to find. But if I was using that in a learning resource, it could be used for coastal erosion. It could be used for cloud formations, talking about the weather. It could be used in terms of photographic composition. I'm sure you can all think of many, many ways in which that image could be used. But the alt tag isn't telling me how that image is being used in the context of the text. So yes, you can adapt and then create alt tags but also consider how to use captions in the text around to explain those images so that that material is available to anybody repurposing it and they can understand that as well. They can see how you intend that image to be used. So that's a bit about what you should be thinking about as an author of Open Educational Resources. How can you actually develop your skills and what actually in practice is it like trying to build accessibility in. Now I'm going to pass over to my colleague sitting next to me, EA, who's going to talk about our experience building some Open Educational Resources and some tools that can be used. Hello, yes. I've been working in this field for several years with Alastair and Abby. And I have to say one of the experiences we've had at Southampton University has been with one of the major suppliers of MOOCs called Future Learn. And we've produced several courses here, or we mustn't call them courses actually, because I think this is one of the other issues that although they're massive open online courses, very often they are made up of several activities and steps and things like this that can be picked over at any time and anywhere. So forgetting about the actual Future Learn platform, which I'm going to mention at the very end of my little bit, what I think is absolutely the most crucial thing that you should be asking your academics to do and any of those involved in these Open Educational Resources is to plan ahead. It is absolutely vital because surprisingly enough or not, they take a lot longer to make than you think they may do. So for instance, the captioning and the transcripts for the videos are absolutely vital, as Alastair sort of also said. But they are incredibly time consuming to create well. And by well, I mean you don't just go to YouTube and say a prayer that when it automatically takes your transcript or whatever you have actually said in your video and automatically adds captions, that they will be accurate. There's a certain percentage that in a way 77% or whatever that can be acceptable, but actually you can miss a lot by just that 30 or so percent that is inaccurate. The other thing to say is that our PDF formats that are perhaps neutral in that everybody uses them on any machine definitely need checking and if they don't reflow and if they aren't tagged, our assistive technologies are not going to work with them and I'm going to mention that in a minute. And finally, what in America is now called STEAM, we still call STEM, which is Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics, really provide us with conundrums because the graphics, the animations, the tables and equations can be made accessible, but once again you need to have the time and obviously the support to do so. So things to be thinking about in advance of actually making the resources and making allowances for perhaps what we should be saying is a cost benefit. It's quite important. So moving on to the term assistive technology, which isn't here because actually what we feel is more important now is that these technologies provide productivity skills. In other words, if our disabled learners can use technologies efficiently, they are going to be able to work in a much faster way than they have in the past. And many of them will be deciding on using perhaps more portable tools like bring your own device, mobile, rather than your desktop. And in the past, when we've given our open education resources or our educational resources, we've put them on our desktops and we've networked them. On those networks, students have come in and they've often found assistive technologies that can offer magnification, screen reading if you have a visual impairment or text-to-speech with text highlighting and alternative inputs like not just the keyboard but also different types of mice and finally speech recognition. Now, we're all of us having to move into this mobile world and we are finding that magnification may have turned into zoom, which is a very different thing. Magnification for a student with a visual impairment means that they can actually perhaps magnify a certain section of a page, a certain part of the screen that they can actually magnify the cursor as well as the mouse. They can magnify the menus, not just the text. So we need to understand that our assistive technologies can be quite a personal thing to those users and need to be adapted to suit the sort of situation they're in when they want to read their e-text or their open educational resources online. And e-text is a sort of American term that's often used for the text that they find from the library or from their e-books. Screening is the same and what we find is that the big assistive technologies that are like Jaws, Window Eyes and Supernova can provide amazing mapping into complex elements of their actual computer usage so it can give them quite a speedy entrance into the menus. It can allow them to find links very quickly. You can't do that with voiceover on an iPhone necessarily and yet those built-in technologies are the ones that they're beginning to use. So we need to be aware of that and as Alistair said, that's where you need your content to be divided up into headings and structured so that they can just jump between them but they may be jumping in a different way. They may be scrolling with their fingers down the screen as opposed to using keyboard shortcuts. The text of speech, if ever you've tried your iPhone or your Android you'll find it's either got as I said voiceover or talk back and you'll be able to select your message and have it spoken back to you or if you're driving you'll be able to have your emails even read out to you. But the important thing for the student with dyslexia perhaps is to have the text highlighted at the same time. Now this doesn't always happen with the mobile device. It doesn't always happen with the e-reader and yet when they're on the desktop they're very used to it happening with for instance text help, Plaro read, these programs that we might have on our networks. The alternative input isn't so flexible as it would be on a desktop so the touch screen doesn't always allow you to delete an item or whatever. Speech recognition, once again we now can talk into our mobile phones. We can talk into our web browsers so if you think about it Google now allows us to do speech recognition. Once again though it's not always as flexible as the drag and naturally speaking version that you may have encountered on your desktop and I apologize if I'm speaking too quickly because I realize that some of us are getting feedback. So moving on to the next slide and understanding that assistive technology is now moved into several realms. So it's mobile, it's e-reader, it's desktop and by e-reader I mean the particular readers that you might find on a Kindle or an iPhone or an iPad. There are so many apps now I'm not going to name them all but you can look up e-readers and you'll find them on all the app stores. I'm going to move now into the way you can check your documents yourself for the accessibility so they can be used with assistive technologies. A structured word document is something that's absolutely vital right at the very beginning because when you save that word document it will then become an accessible PDF if you've used styles and headings. And if you then want to check the PDF there are some free ones such as pack to or pave online. These URLs where you see the highlighted text we'll make sure those are in the notes of the slides. Caliber you can go online, do a Google search that will convert into an EPUB. Now EPUB 3 is the version of EPUB that allows for navigation through an e-book and it's something that if you're in the accessibility world you'll understand they work through the Daisy Consortium to allow the EPUB 3 to be used with a screen reader. But once again it's only as good as the input that goes into that EPUB 3 file. And finally you can use the EPUB 3 checker which is provided by the International Digital Publishing Forum. So very quickly I'm just going to show you Web2Access which is a way of accessing web pages and evaluating them for accessibility. It's online and it's a very easy tool to use for functional testing but you can also use web aims, checks. We've got an AT bar that you can put on top of your web pages and it will allow you to color the web pages, it'll allow you to give text to speech to your students, it's totally free, it's open source and I apologize. From the slides you will see that some of the graphics have moved. I think Alice and Abby and I were using widescreen laptops when we made the slides and they've now been crunched up a little bit. But basically AT bar allows you to customize your web pages. Google and WordPress also have plugins that you can add to them and then finally STEM Reader which will allow you to have your mathematical equations read out to you. And this is something you can see online at www.stemreader.org.uk. As long as your equations are in latex or mathML and not as images there is now the possibility of having those equations read out as text to speech with highlighting. So that's an exciting new thing that we're trying to develop here at Southampton and Abby's been in charge of that project and we'd love to more beta testers for that one. And then if we're looking forward to the exciting things that Alice has been talking about and the fact that we allow everything to be open what we learn from this is that we can share the knowledge of others. Some people are far more knowledgeable than we are about open education resources but by sharing we can learn about it. It crosses those boundaries of accessibility, usability and personalization. We can do that with open educational resources. And we can make it something that goes far beyond the usual gatekeepers which really upsets me in the world of assistive technology and accessibility. There tend to be these wonderful experts that are perched around the world giving advice but it's always within their own forums. It's within our own conferences. We need to get out there. We need to be talking to the academics, to the learning technologists and the way we're going to do that is hopefully through our MOOCs and there will be a free MOOC all about accessibility and assistive technologies and one of the things that I've learned from developing this MOOC is that don't ever do open educational resources in a chunk. Break everything down into a tiny step whether it's one image that you're going to add to a document, make sure it has its alt tag, make sure you know it's copyright, make sure you know where it's got to and you say where it's come from. Break everything you do in any online resource down into tiny little steps and you'll have a really successful open educational resource. Back to Abby. Thank you, EA. That was brilliant. I'm just going to talk about a few other things that are going on which follow on from that. Firstly, a course that's already available and it's particularly for those of you with a more technical angle. It's actually the course that Facebook used with their developers internally about accessibility that it's available from the link on the slide and they have it, so it takes about 20 minutes. There's this wonderful acronym called HIK, so take a hike and it goes through about headings and semantic markup, images and labels, keyboard navigation and then the extra stuff which is all the more technical side of ARIA, color contrast, text layout. But if you are considering how to develop web resources and content, particularly in HTML5, that's a really good free resource and really well written. So if you've got technical stuff who you also want to upskill on accessibility, that's a really good place to point them to. And finally, the last thing we wanted to talk about is a platform called Slide Wiki. I'm not sure if any of you know about this, but it's a platform that's been developed in Europe for sharing open educational resources in slide form and it's starting to be redeveloped. Slide Wiki 2.0 is being funded as part of the Horizon 2020 project and we are leading the accessibility and usability part of that project and our goal is that over the next three years as that platform's rebuilt, it will provide a tool for creating and sharing accessible resources, both being able to create it through assistive technologies in an accessible way and also ensure that the content coming out the other end is also accessible. And there are the opportunity for people to trial and use the system as it's being built. Currently, if you go to the website, you'll see Slide Wiki version 1.0. But later this year, as soon as we've got the first prototype, it will be available for people to trial and comment. So with this as an opportunity, we wanted to share with the group of saying there's a platform that's going to be developed for sharing accessible open educational resources. What do you want from it? It'd be really great if anybody has any feedback and ideas and comments about the existing system or what would they like to see as such a platform. And also as we go through the three-year project, we will be involved in trialling the platform to understand how it can be used within the UK educational system within higher education, particularly. So if you are interested in trialling it through any of your OER projects or with your general student population, all specifically those with disabilities and particular learning needs, then please do get in touch as we want to gather as much feedback as possible and feed that back into the development team. And what we found particularly in terms of looking at the needs of that project is when you start to talk to the developers, they understand the technical accessibility requirements but understanding also how the educational providers and content creators want to use it is a key aspect that they need input in. So hopefully that's something that will help the OER community and help move the accessible agenda further. So if anybody's interested, please do get in touch. So that does actually bring us to the end of our slides. We've got through those slightly quicker than we anticipated, but we did want to leave time for questions. And I've seen that the chat pane is been going away at a rapid rate with people commenting and asking for resources. So Alex, would you like to lead through if there's any particular questions that haven't been answered? Absolutely. Thanks to all of our speakers for providing some excellent insight into the latest developments in practice and how we can all really look to develop our OERs and our non-OERs to benefit our students with disabilities. I've picked up on a couple of questions that didn't seem to get addressed by the chat box. There were lots of questions that went through and were answered by colleagues within the session, so I really appreciate that. So thank you for your contributions there. One of the questions I wanted to raise was really early on in the session, and that talked about accessible images, accessible documents being created for teaching, and what types of training should our HGIs really start to offer our staff if they don't already do that? What do you think? Okay, I think I'll start off by this. All but Alistair may also want to input. I think one of the barriers we have is the lack of time available to train staff. Often it may be part of an induction process, and there is trying to introduce to general accessible practice and learning. So there's quite a lot of information you're trying to get across in a short time. From our experience, what people appreciate really is quick short guides and reminders, and even next to the keyboard, reminding them these are the four or five steps that we need to do. And we've had resources, created resources in the past, but one of the particular problems we face with accessibility and technology in general is they go out to date very quickly. So again, it's about trying to keep those resources up to date. And I think actually the changes within the DSA scheme are making many institutions look at the type of training they offer. And I know many people are thinking about these things, so hopefully over the coming few months there will be many more training resources out there. In terms of resources outside of HEIs, we tend to find that they are very technical in the WCAG and W3C resources, or you can find MOOCs and some open education resources, but you do really need to know what you're searching for, and that is a problem many people don't find about accessibility unless they're actually searching for it. Thank you, that was really useful. There was also some conversation following on from that in the chat box about the role that UK PSF could play and how that could be used to perhaps try and embed some of this practice right from the start of the new lecturers joining institutions, but also those going for accreditation, what with TEF potentially around the corner for us, could this be a useful tool to try and improve accessibility standards? What do you think about that? I think the more we make accessibility part of the mainstream, the better it will be for everybody. And I think there's very often this sense amongst academic staff that accessibility is for a very, very small group of people, for a few blind people that they haven't ever had in their lecture or something. And I think the message that we're going to get better at promoting is that accessibility is genuinely for everybody. You've got 10% of your students are likely to be print impaired just demographically, and then when you add the average university has 15% of their students from overseas, many of those students would get similar benefits from some of the assisted technology type tools if you're not a very fluent English reader, being able to navigate quickly through a well-structured document, being able to use text-to-speech, they're all really helpful for everybody. So I think part of it is getting across the message that it's not a niche interest, it's actually about good quality teaching. The second thing is making it mainstream, and I think the UKPSF is certainly one way that I think it should be going. But I think the other thing is looking at course modules. I've been working with the University of Kent and what we're looking at there is looking at the module specification process so that every time you create a module at the moment, there's just a little box to tick about, we will take accessibility into account with no hint yet as to what that actually means in practice. So we're working together with the appropriate people to try to establish maybe not just a single tick box, but things that will be meaningful like all our presentations will meet to these accessibility standards, our documentation will, and so on. So I think mainstreaming is definitely the way forward. And as Terry said in the chat, it's also turning our learners into producers of accessible content because that's going to become a really important factor in the future, I think. Can I also just add, I think, there's always the argument of accessibility of trying to demonstrate the cost benefit and actually making resources accessible by adding alt text and structure within the headings means they're much more easy to search and much more available to search engines and that type of construct. So often when you're trying to sell this within technical teams or within senior management, the fact that the resource is accessible means that it's more available and easy to use on that level. It's always about trying to find the person who's got to have the tick box KPI to say, yes, this is going to be worthwhile investing time and money. That's a very good point because one of the things I've noticed in my work with publishers is that the publishers really came on board. Many of the big publishers have come on board with accessibility because they found it helps them do their business more efficiently and much more effectively and it begins to open up the possibility of microtransactions. If you can actually divide your book into chapters and subchapters and potentially license or sell an individual chapter of a book and then a subchapter of another book and bundle them all together. If you've got good accessibility structure, it also allows you to do read a clever business and machine-readable stuff as well. I think that's a really interesting point. We touched on it earlier on that actually good accessibility practice benefits everybody, not just those students with those disabilities. Thank you for going over that. One final question unless we get any more that come through in the chat within the next couple of minutes goes back to the just content store, Alistair. I'll try to put you on the spot a little bit. Whether or not there will be any governance of the content store and app store that will demand that any content and the apps that are uploaded to that platform comply with the latest best practice in terms of accessibility. I would definitely hope so. That's all I can say at the moment because I'm not directly involved in that but I have been doing work with the other teams including just collections and one of the things that just collections now have is the accessibility kind of checklist that any new supplier that's being brought into the just collections bundle has to fill in this accessibility checklist which is nothing to do with do you meet a WCAG technical standard or something. It's about really demonstrable things like can you change the font size, can you change the colors, has it been tested with assistive technologies, et cetera. So certainly that's embedded in that part of just I'm working at the moment with some of the digital resources folk on putting together some accessibility guidance. I will take that question back though because it's certainly something that we should be thinking about. I suspect we are but I can't tell you for certain who it is and who's got responsibility. Okay, thank you. I appreciate that. That might have been pretty long on the spot a little bit there. So absolutely it's a good thing to do that. Can I just add that one of the things that would be really great is when they did this idea of moving Joram over they provided a list of alternative platforms. I don't know if you were aware of that that you could use. What would be really helpful Alistair I'll put the link to it in the chat would be if you could ask them could is there any way there could be a check box that could say you know well actually this is a really accessible one. It would be very you know if they could check it all because I have to say the list is quite long and I think if I was an academic coming to it I'd find it an incredibly useful list but I wouldn't know whether it would be suitable for all of the sorts of issues we've been talking about. Oh okay there was me talking into my microphone with me impressed on my mic there. Apologies. Thank you very much for that EA again that's a really useful recommendation for the sector that you know we'll pass back to Joram and the guys working on that project. I just wanted to extend my thanks to my three speakers Abby EA and to Alistair for contributing their time this afternoon I think there was a really useful session just to go through some of the latest developments and best practice that we can all adopt and take back to our own institutions and incorporate within our own practice. That's the end of the webinar today. We'll post a recording of the session on the OpenEd SIG especially interest group web pages that are on the slide that's here. Just the final reminder about the webinar that's coming up on the 11th about Open Educational Resource Conference on the coming up next month I think it is in April. So thank you all once again and have a nice afternoon. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.