 Good evening everybody. My name is Phil Seib. I'm the Chair of the Human Relations Commission for the City of Durham. And I appreciate everybody coming out tonight for our forum on the Durham County Jail System. I wanted to introduce this forum by saying a few statements about the Human Relations Commission because I know a few citizens do not know what the commission does. The Human Relations Commission was created by City Ordinance in 1964 and reports directly to the City Council, the Mayor, and the City Manager. By-law is composed of six Caucasians, three males, three females, six African Americans, three males, three females, two people of Latino descent and two other persons. The Board cannot not be more males and females at any one time and we try to do our best to make sure that there's an even amount of males to female ratio. Throughout its existence, the Durham Human Relations Commission has provided forums, workshops, conferences, one-on-one interventions, and activities with one goal in mind, to improve the relations among the people of Durham. The Human Relations Commission has the following powers and duties to carry out to support that mission. We are to act as a public forum in hearing complaints involving racial tension and to bring together the parties involved to discuss the facts and assist in a resolution of the complaints. We are to develop an atmosphere conductive to the best possible human relations to conduct studies, suggest areas of concerns, and recommend any action to the City Council that the Commission feels is necessary and may be lawfully taken to minimize areas of conflict and to promote harmonious relationships. We are to provide open channels of useful communication among the various racial, religious, ethnic, and economic groups in the City and between those groups in the City Council so that misunderstandings and wide differences leading to conflict may be ameliorated. To do research, obtain factual data, hold meetings with citizens, and consider and recommend the best and fairest means of progressively improving human relations among all citizens of the City of Durham, and to institute and conduct educational programs like the program tonight to promote fairness and courtesy in dealing with people of all races, ethnic, economic backgrounds, and status that promote equal treatment, equal opportunity, and mutual understanding between every citizen of the City of Durham. Tonight we're going to be talking about the jail, and I'm hoping that as the Chair of the Human Relations Commission that everyone who is here tonight will walk out with a better understanding of the jail system that we have here in the City and the conditions in the jail. Tonight's moderator is a commissioner for the Human Relations Commission, Yolanda Keith. Thanks, Yolanda. Thank you. All right. So with respect to time, we understand that tonight is a packed night. So I will first just thank everyone for joining us this evening and also hope tonight, like Phil said, will be informative and leads to additional discussion on the impact of the county jail on the Durham residents. As mentioned in previous publications, the jail holds approximately 500 people, many of whom live in the City of Durham. In response to concerns by city residents, the Durham Human Relations Commission hopes to hold this forum to help the community better understand the Durham County jail system. Tonight we will host a number of speakers with a range of perspectives, acknowledge concerns from letters we've received from the jail, and provide an opportunity for the community to ask questions. I'd like to share a few ground rules as we kind of move forward. Please be respectful. We know this is a very emotional and concerning topic. So please be respectful of the views of others. We understand there's a lot of hurt in the room. Please be respectful as we continue this dialogue. Please be considerate of time, be brief, be concise. We'd like to hear from a number of people in the room. So, again, we ask that you be brief. Please take note to follow up with individuals as needed. So as we move through the night, do take names and do use this as an opportunity to network. Although some of the views and the topics may bleed into other discussions about our city, as a moderator, I hope to keep the discussion timely and focused on the main topic. A few of our commissioners have handed out note cards, or if they're not been handed out, there are some note cards in the back of the room. Please use those to write down your questions if you'd like. We will have a microphone up here as well to allow for people to give comment. When we give comment, we will have a time allotment. Again, there's a lot of people in the room that would like to speak, and we want to be able to offer that opportunity to everyone. I would like to introduce our panel and allow them to give a couple of comments prior. I will be brief and concise with the introduction. First, I'd like to introduce you all to Chief District Court Judge Marcia Murray. The honorable Marcia Murray is a Chief District Court Judge for the FIP 14th District, as a protector of citizen rights. Just Murray helps young, the young, the age and the poor, and the homeless in Durham County. Her legal career bought her to Durham, where she served as Assistant District Attorney, Executive Director to the Governor's Commission on Juvenile Crime and Justice, and she has become the District Court Judge in 1999 and Chief District Court Judge in 2011. I'd also like to introduce Major Martin of Durham County Sheriff's Office, the Durham County Sheriff's Office. He joined the Durham Police in 1978 and has served the Durham Police for 18 years. Major Martin joined the Sheriff's Office in 2001. He's now the major in charge of support services for Durham County Sheriff's Office, which includes criminal investigation, criminal intelligence, anti-crime narcotics unit, domestic violence, sex offender registry, the courthouse, court security, civil division, the transportation unit responsible for transporting prisoners and mentally ill persons throughout the state, the records division which handles pistol permits and concealed carry permits, the negotiation response team, project lifesaver, and the honor guard. I'd also like to introduce Miss Cynthia Parrish Fox. She's a Durham citizen and advocate of the community, a lifetime Durham citizen and mother of three young men. Miss Fox is a Durham activist that has dedicated her life to helping young, the young, the battered and aging. She is a writer, a home giver and advocate of Islam. She is a member of Inside Out Alliance and industrial workers of the world, a union for all workers. We asked Miss Fox to join us tonight to share her experiences of the Durham jail and her insight on ways the citizens may be able to help with this complex and concerning matter. Lastly, Mr. Umar Mohamed, community organizer with the Southern Coalition for Social Justice. His current responsibilities include working with clients who have criminal record histories to obtain court-based remedies such as expansion and certificates of relief. Umar organizes and attends speaking forums, community meetings and local government meetings to stay connected with the community, the communities of SCJ. He also is a member of all of us or none, a grassroots civil rights, human rights organization for fighting rights of formerly and currently incarcerated people and their families. First, in moving to our panelists, I'd like them to offer a couple of words. So the first speaker we have tonight is Judge Maury. And Judge Maury, we asked you to speak a little bit about the day in the life of a prison, a person in the Durham County Jail. Thank you. Oh, it's on. Okay, now it's on. When I heard the topic, and first of all, thank you for the Human Relations Commission for doing this. It's very important topic. But when I heard the topic, what's it life like to be in jail? I can't tell you that I know. But I'll tell you the one thing I do know is I wish I never had to have someone be in jail or stay in jail and we could get rid of our jail. It's a huge monumental decision when you are in the jail courthouse or you're in the courthouse next to the jail, and you make a decision someone has to be incarcerated, or someone's bond has to be higher than would allow them to be out. And you're always balancing, you know, what is the community safety? What is the offense? What are we doing? And it's a heavy burden. And I take it very seriously. And tonight, in my time, pretty much what I wanted to do, and I think Yolanda asked me to do is kind of go through the process. So I'm not speaking so much what it's like to be in the jail. I think others can attest to that and some of you. But just to give you kind of the blueprint of what really happens, and it's going to be kind of dry, but I'm going to go through the statute. And first of all, I want to just tell you our jail population is down quite a bit. Ever since 2009, there has been a significant decline in our population. There's a significant decline in arrests, especially for misdemeanors across the state and in Durham County. Our criminal dockets have gone down. No one's sure quite why because our population's going up. But I would say that we're trying to be smarter. We're trying to be smarter with those who commit offenses but have mental health issues or substance abuse issues. We're trying to do our best to keep kids clean from juvenile records. So with that, I think the concerns we have, the concerns any of us who are judges or in the system are disproportionate minority population. When you have our community and you have 70% on average of our people in jail or African American or people of color, 20% or white, about 8% or Hispanic, it doesn't mirror who we are as a city. But that's who is in our jail. So processing, what happens when you come to jail? And processing upon arrest when an officer takes someone into custody. First of all, they must inform the person arrested of what the charges are. They take the person before a judicial official, which could be a magistrate. In Durham, we have 15 criminal magistrates. They rotate on a regular schedule. They will hear what the officer has to say. That person needs to be advised of their right to communicate with counsel and the statute says and or friends and allow a reasonable time and opportunity to do so. That certain crimes, felonies and misdemeanors upon arrest when they're taken to detention facility, they are fingerprinted and photographed. This does exclude class two and three misdemeanors. In Durham, we do have something with law enforcement, EMS, mobile crisis response, the sheriff's office, for people who are obviously suffering from a substance abuse overdose. It may have been but we transport them and we have the Durham Recovery Response Center. That is not at the jail, but they can take these people up to the Durham Crisis Response Center. They can be held for an average 24 hours, up to four days, maybe longer, depending on what's going on with them. So there is an effort. If someone's in distress and there's something else going on, even though a crime may have been committed, divert them from the jail. Don't take them right downtown. And each month about 200 to 300 people are admitted in that facility. And we're trying to build on that. If someone is under the age of 18, even though North Carolina has the youngest age of juvenile jurisdiction of anywhere in the country, which I'm a big proponent, we must raise the age to 18. But we have 16, 17 year olds. In every aspect of the law, they're considered to be minors, except for one area. That's if they get an arrest. Within 24 hours, if a law enforcement takes a 16 or 17 year old, brings them to the magistrate, if they are put under arrest, a parent or guardian must be notified or next of kin. So I'm just going through the law. Some of you may be thinking that's not what's happening, but I'm just kind of going through the statutes by which we have to come into booking. It's called an initial appearance. The initial appearance is before a magistrate. A magistrate is considered to be a judicial official. Their must follow the law. But the big part of their job is they have discretion. And it's how they use their discretion. When setting bond bail pre trial, that you can get a wide variety of what can happen to an individual. I get complaints on magistrates. I'll get complaints. Why did someone set a bond so high out of reach for a low level offense? That's that person's discretion. I can't overrule it. But I'll get into the process. We do review what the measures magistrates do on a timely basis. But when they come in from the magistrate, the magistrate informs the person of the charge. They also once again tell them they have the right to communicate with counsel or friends. And then they start looking into what is their right to pre trial release or bond. If arrest is without a warrant, a magistrate determines from the officers sworn testimony, is there probable cause to charge? Probable cause is a very low standard. Is it probable that a crime occurred? Is it probable that this person committed the crime? It probable causes frown. The magistrate will issue a magistrate's order unless there was arrest based on a warrant. So then we get into the crux of it. Do they get released or not? One thing Durham has that is, I would say superior to any other county in this state is our pre trial, our pretrial services, which is run out of the criminal justice resource center. The county is provided for that. People are screened. And now with magistrates, they can contact pretrial, pretrial interviews people before they may be given a bond that they cannot make to see where is their home? Do they have family? Are they employed? Can they be supervised on pretrial? By coming in, they monitor them, they know their whereabouts, they advise them of their future court date. And if a magistrate or later a judge feels that the best assurance to have them appear in court is pretrial release. There is no money cost that we sign an order or a magistrate and we put them on pretrial. And usually three times a week, they check in with pretrial. There could be random drug screens on pretrial. There could be a curfew. There can be conditions of do not have any contact with a alleged victim. Do not go to certain places. Pretrial has been very successful. And the most important thing it evens out the playing field. Because as we know, if pretrial is not available and a bond is set meaning money to get out. It depends who you are if you can get out. And many of us think that's inherently unfair. If you have money in your wallet, you might get out for the same crime as someone who's in poverty who has to stay in jail. So our pretrial services is a wonderful and we're expanding it to try to make sure it's available 24 seven at the courthouse and also with all the magistrates. We have suggested bond amounts and Judge Hudson who is our senior resident Superior Court Judge and I have signed it. There are public documents. They're on public display. And in the suggested bond guidelines, a magistrate doesn't have to look at, oh, this is the offense. This is the $5,000 bond no matter what. You have discretion. They're suggested guidelines. And in the bond policies, we do want the first option to be release on your own reconnaissance or your signature. Your promise to appear. That's the preferred way to do it. As a crime gets more serious, if you have a trespass and you have no record, you're going to be released. You probably shouldn't even be arrested. It should be a citation. But we look at what is the level of the crime? What is the suggested bond amount? Is that person appropriate? If they have no record, they have no prior failure to appears and we look that up, then post an unsecured bond, post a promise to appear. As we go up the classification of crimes or felonies, the suggested bond amounts become more and more significant. If you're charged with murder or class A felony, there's a presumption of no bond at the time they come in for booking. I'll be glad to go over these or share them with you, but they are public record and be happy to have you look at them. So the magistrate will set release conditions. Many people are released without posting any money. Otherwise, if there is a bond amount, there are bondsmen who are at the jail all the time. Many require 15% to be put down by the person and they are released. If they fail to appear, the bondsman is responsible for up to 100% of the bond. Our guidelines aren't perfect. And I said, we use them as a default to justify decisions. If someone later says, why was that person given a $5,000 bond? And that was the classification. So it helps keep some continuity. I'm hoping every judicial official, every magistrate looks at each case as a human being on what's the cost of the community. We want to keep people here safe. We don't want repeat offenders who don't show up to court revolving over and over again with more crimes to be committed. So in those cases, there will be significant bonds. All this decision with a magistrate and many times it's weekends, it's midnight, it's 1 a.m., 4 a.m., people are held if they can't make their bond and they will make a first appearance before a district court judge the next day. There are seven of us, seven district court judges. We all rotate through the jail. Judge Marsh is here today. He's one of our district court judges. We may have total different ideas on setting a bond on someone or overruling a magistrate's decision and we may be getting more information. People at the jail when they are brought in, family members are allowed to speak. They're on the opposite side of the plexiglass. They come in the jail. There's usually 15 people in a row that come in at a time and we do hear from people. The most important thing we look at how serious is the charge? What are the prior convictions and how many times has the person failed to come to court? And then we consider what the suggested bond guidelines are. Once we do that, we ask about counsel. Everyone has a right to counsel except for class three misdemeanors and infractions. We go through that with everyone. We tell them you have a right to apply for a public defender. Our public defender is here tonight. Mr. Lawrence Campbell is here and he has his staff. If people cannot afford an attorney, they fill out an affidavit. We look at if they qualify, we will appoint a public defender to represent them. Some people come in. They've already retained an attorney and that attorney can be heard on the bond considerations. The one area other than a capital offense is domestic violence and our statute says if someone is charged with domestic violence, a magistrate may not set bond for 48 hours. So we have some people that have been brought in because a domestic violence charge is sold on a female domestic criminal trespass and it may not be that serious. It may be you read in it, it was a slap on the face but since that is domestic violence, it is a no bond. It's considered to be a cooling off period until they come in front of the judge within 48 hours. If they don't come before 48 hours, the magistrate does set a bond. But a lot of people have a difficult time about these domestic violence charges of people staying in jail over weekends on cases that they don't consider that serious. But it is about safety and it is about cooling off. That's kind of what I wanted to go over. We do a lot of collaboration in Durham. There's an initiative called the Stepping Up and we meet with mental health. Gail Harris is here from mental health. What are the conditions? What can we make available to people with severe persistent mental health issues? How do we help get them out of our jail or get them services they need? Severe substance abuse. Fayetteville has recently started a program that I think Durham should look into. The diversion program. And if someone is picked up with opioids or something that's less than four grams, they try to get them into substance abuse treatment and not bring them into jail for a simple possession. It's a much more humane way to do it. And I'll tell you, opiate addiction is sky rocketing in North Carolina. I don't think we've seen it as much in Durham yet, but across the state, those charges are really coming through. But there are a lot of partnerships. There are a lot of people that are concerned about the safety and the welfare of people who are in the jail and also our community. So, I'll stop at that, but thank you very much and look forward to your questions. Thank you, Judge Maury. So, moving on to the next speaker, Major Martin. If you could talk a little bit about what the jail actually is. What's the role of the sheriff in the jail? Where does the budget come from from the jail? Where does the money come from? And how are decisions made about the jail? On behalf of Sheriff Andrews, I'd like to thank the Human Relations Commission for holding this form. Excuse me for just a moment. And I also want to announce, we do have a Spanish interpreter here in the room. So, I will say that again, we do have a Spanish interpreter. If you could walk to the back of the room. We have some microphones to be able to translate if anyone needs it. Thank you. Andrews, I would like to thank the Human Relations Commission for hosting this forum to help clarify some of the functions and operations in the jail. I would also like to thank the Inside Outside Alliance for helping us to generate the support to create a mental health pod in the jail. We now have 10 detention officers that were hired. We now have three deputy positions to transport the mentally ill. We are working with a group of psychiatrists and mental health people at Duke University so that we can transport the mentally ill in a manner that does not seem to criminalize the transport. The discussion tonight reflects the complexity of the jail both from the perspective of the human condition and the bureaucratic apparatus necessary to keep the detention. The discussion is made even more complicated by various aspects of the criminal justice system including the bonding process and its money-driven nature as well as shortcomings both real and perceived in the criminal justice system. We had a gentleman we've arrested twice in the last two weeks with a gun and a large amount of drugs and it ran each time. He posted a $250,000 bond each time and left the jail. On the other hand we have gentlemen people sitting there under a $1,500 bond on a various low level charges that cannot get out because they can't afford to post 15 percent of $1,500 and that is costing the taxpayers of Durham $110 and 19 cents a day for each person that's incorporated, incarcerated. The jail is the symbol of the system although the jail has nothing to do with the system other than the housing of detainees placed there by the judicial systems. Detention officers on a daily basis have to deal with the emotional volatility of mentally ill detainees as well as people who are frustrated about being there because they don't feel like they've done anything and they should not be there and this creates problems in the jail. Much of the discussion revolving around the jail for the past several years is really a discussion of satisfaction with the entire criminal justice system and I'm not talking about Judge Moray, I'm talking about state legislature, the laws, everything, the entire system. The general statute that puts the sheriff in control of the jail is North Carolina General Statute 162.22, custody of jail and I'll read it to you. The sheriff had, the sheriff shall have care and custody of the jail in his county and shall be or appoint the keeper thereof. No law enforcement officer or jailer who shall have the care and custody of any jail shall receive any portion of any jail fee or charge paid by or for any person confined in such jail nor shall the compensation or remuneration of such off should be affected to any extent by the cost of goods or services furnished to any person confined in such jail. So there you have it, the sheriff, the leading law enforcement officer in the county in the city is responsible for the jail and as a result the taxpayers are responsible for the jail. For fiscal year 2015 the direct and indirect cost of running the jail exceeded 21 million dollars. This is a daily cost for each detainee of 110 dollars and 19 cents. For instance total cost for health care was three million eight hundred twenty four thousand two hundred sixteen dollars. Pharmacy costs apart of the total was four hundred seventy thousand dollars. Health care is ministered primarily through correct care solutions under the auspices of the Durham County Health Department. I think we have Miss Gail Harris here tonight. Another sum of more than one million dollars that ministered through the criminal justice resource center. This includes the star program which is a drug treatment program four hundred thirteen thousand two hundred sixty five dollars. The pretrial program that Judge Moray mentioned is four hundred two thousand nine hundred fifty one dollars dollars. The jail mental health team is one hundred seventy one thousand two hundred twenty five dollars and jail psychiatric services is fifty two thousand dollars. Also a part of the county called general services is responsible for keeping up the physical infrastructure of the jail. And that in two thousand fifteen cost two thousand one hundred eight two million one hundred eighty nine thousand dollars. For instance a recent upgrade in the kitchen costs two hundred thousand dollars. The private contractors within the jail include Durham literacy which is a GED and life skills program. Durham public schools which does the high school diploma. Correct care solutions which is medical care. Eremark which is now only commissary we have a new food vendor ACL food services which costs almost an extra a hundred thousand dollars and they're ensuring that the meals are not soy based. There's a meat and milk available. We have Trinity outreach ministry chaplain services bull city ministry chaplain services of course general services from the county and the criminal justice resource center. We also have a new phone company handling the phone calls called GTL. The fees are set by the federal commerce commission for this program. Medical care prisoners there was some misunderstanding that people were forced to pay for medical care. The general assembly passed this law 153-225 medical care of prisoners. As a part of its plan each unit may establish a fee of twenty dollars provision of emergency medical care to prisoners and a fee of not more than ten dollars for a 30 day supply or less of a prescription drug. In establishing fees pursuant to this section each unit shall establish a procedure for waiving fees for indigent prisoners. Now if you are sick and it's perceived as minor you do not have to pay this twenty dollars if you don't have the money you it's handled it's free but the state law and the county commissioners pass the fee in the budget but if you don't have the money you don't pay the money and that's only for minor illness when you need to see a doctor. Inspections in the jail there are numerous inspections in the jail. The facility state inspection is conducted twice a year and is at the discretion of the jail inspector as a state inspection. The facility health care health care delivery inspection accredited is a national commission on correctional health care conducts an inspection. The fire marshals inspection the facility health and sanitation inspection U.S. marshals inspection the department of labor pressure vessel inspection and the facility elevator inspection. In addition to that the majors in the jail inspect weekly the administrative captains inspect weekly the security captains inspect daily security lieutenants twice during the tour of duty security staff sergeants twice during the tour of duty security floor sergeants four times during the tour of duty a compliance officer weekly and environmental services sergeant weekly and that's all I have. Thank you major martin. All right so we'll move over to the next panelist mr. Muhammad excuse me and the question we asked for you was who's actually in the jail so if you can give us some information as far as demographics and the citizens like who actually is in the jail. Thank you. Um so I did the southern coalition for social justice we did come up with some numbers um and looking at the room it's good to see a lot of you people here back again I just want to kind of take this space to be like this area up here I never sat up here before so it's it's all right vote for me um so yeah but we do have some numbers and these numbers that we have I think is all too familiar um especially seeing the people that we have in this room so with the numbers that we pulled between June and July approximately between nine hundred forty seven people came in contact with the Durham County jail um most of these were bonds less than five thousand so we got 74 percent I think that's three out of four um blacks uh 24 percent white and it gives such a small percentage for other nationalities as far as gender uh 78 percent male 21 percent female when we talk about bonds less than five thousand they have 73 percent black and 75 percent white out of that it's 34 percent female and 100 says 100 percent male um and then they have an age breakdown of uh 18 to 24 27 percent 25 to 34 35 percent 35 to 54 29 percent 55 to 74 3 percent and it breaks the numbers down to literally the population of the people but with these numbers this is something that we already knew so I think that as we're holding this space we can be addressing some forms of solutions or at least be lifting up some of the the work that has been being done in Durham such as the Mr. Mina diversion program which we appreciate so bonds are supposed to be used as the last resort to secure someone to appear in court all right but when you have a black male that spent seven days in jail for a window tinting violation and when you have a black male who spent 34 days in jail for not paying child support and the bond was just a little 200 so the question that I got was who's in the jail right so poor parents who couldn't pay child support is in the jail um people who couldn't afford their punishments in the jail they couldn't afford their fines their fees they are in the jail right our children and my neighbors are in the jail and when you talk about the conditions of the jail what we got was a read through right the people who've been doing this work on the ground the people who've been rallying at the jail seeing the conditions that our people are coming out of and when we talk about medical care then let's not forget the deaths that we had at the jail when we're talking about bonding out right the poor is paying the price it's whether you have past conviction history FTAs or not right simply poverty is not going to allow us to make this bond when you have to pay for there's so many phone calls and the amount that you have to pay for these phone calls to reach out to your loved ones all right that's a barrier in itself so in in support of of everyone in respect of everyone in the room there has been work being done on judges prosecutor southern coalition for social justice all of us are none spirit house north carolina inside outside alliance I can name so many um participatory defense and I can go on and on um but to bring it I know I don't have much time so to bring this to a close to hold this space of who's in this room to be sitting in this position right here we know our problem right that's why southern coalition for social justice is a community lawyering human and civil rights organization so we listening to the community and we're hearing the barriers that they're facing and they know their own solutions they know what restorative justice is looking like and we need to start leaning on our grassroots organizations to make this happen thank you thank you mr. Hamid now I'll um wing to miss Cynthia Fox if you could talk a little bit about the day in the life of someone supporting someone in the jail based off of your experiences and the things that you know don't know what islamicam means means peace be unto you from god and I know what I do about the Durham county jail because I've been incarcerated there myself many times um I have a phone line inside the Durham county jail that I pay for my that's how I find out what's going on in the jail from the inmates themselves um my reasons for being here is simple uh I okay inside outside the lines and I w w and members of family and citizens of Durham we are the voices of those people inside the Durham county jail these people are still human beings and are still citizens of Durham, North Carolina the mass majority of them have not been convicted nor have they had their day in court these detainees not inmates have suffered lots of injustices by being medically neglected due to the lack of compassion professionalism and qualified medical staff doctors and nurses psychiatrists dentists and therapists they do not have they do not have the staff equipped to handle the amount of people inside the Durham county jail so that's a bold face to life other other injustices include food not fit for human consumption inhumane treatment from laser staff mowed on floors and walls grievances ignored legal court processes being excessively delayed little to no contact with lawyers no access to medical materials to I mean materials to assist them excuse me a little or no contact with lawyers no access to materials to assist in their um on defense high bonds mail delays and receiving mail water law trades and last but not least detainees are frequently disrespected and cannot speak out to officials in complaint without being reprimanded that's why they have us these concerns of the detainees are genuine I know because not anything has changed in the last 10 years since I was incarcerated there now being well aware of the extreme PR that the shares and his staff has went to to make good on or to make look even presentable since our a started its campaign to disclose the awful conditions inhumane inhumane treatment of detainees at the Durham county jail I find it ironic that nothing is wrong with the running of the jail why all this PR or to make better what was never a problem in the beginning the findings and response from the NIC the national institute of corrections investigation was trivial at best the on and only covered up with officials at the jail deemed necessary to show the investigators after inmates had busted their tails scrubbing and cleaning as much as possible the areas that were to be expected as for the three from 3000 point one million contract with correct care solutions that was a slap in the face to taxpayers detainees and family members there are these are the same people that are partially responsible for the death of Matthew McCain and Dennis McCartney Dennis McCartney others have also died inside the Durham county jail when officer borough would not respond to the call of detainees calling for his attention at Matthew's at the issues that Matthew McCain had before he did that before he died they also after his death called members of the family will text them and told them that he had been released from jail when in fact he was laying in his jail cell be um this particular company offers little to no assistance to detainees at the Durham county jail a $20 fee must be provided before one can even send official for medical assistance now listen to Mr Martin speak on the $20 fee and if you don't have it then you will be seen by who who are you going to be seen by they have no official people there qualified to assist anybody on any medical level now if you only have $20 in your account then you must choose between health and an empty stomach since you get nothing to eat after five o'clock unless you have money sent from your family through the canteen this is where price gouging for certain canteen for a can for canteen items come in because the canteen items um price to the Durham county jail are much higher than the prices even in um prisons throughout the United States very high um okay this is where price gouging for canteen items come in along with global tail the phone service machine charges three dollars on every $20 inserted there are so many areas of injustices at the Durham county jail so bear with me if I find myself jumping from one injustice to another in any event it's all the same big mess and it has been going on like this for years and um it's time for an overhaul it's overdue detainees with prior injuries in the Durham county jail are not properly screened my son for instance was incarcerated three years at the Durham county jail he had an injury that caused him to have a um rod and boats placed in his arm temporary was supposed to be there for six months but it remained there for two years due to the lack of um attention given to him by staff medical staff and and the Thai staff at the Durham county jail they refused to just even take him out so now he has to have major search to have this two of this um rod and these two removed from his arm which is going to be real costly for them and myself items remain in his arm for two years to some this part of the conversation up our grievances were unnoted and unresponsive correct care solutions will be held accountable as well as those who neglected being neglected and responsible into the needs of Matthew McCain that's a prime example of what the Durham county jail and Sheriff Andrews are doing in neglective manners to cover up their wrongdoings Matthew McCain did not have to die inside the jail he had been claiming for it an entire year as to his condition with no attention given to the seriousness of his condition the Durham county jail is definitely responsible as well as okay um as far as the transfer of vendor from airmark to uh abl why now for 20 years the company has used this vendor and has price gouged with the canteen all the way up until today prices are not even that high elsewhere i'm being repetitions forgive me i'm the training program for inmates these are not inmates these are detainees none of this is a big joke nonetheless we'll see what goes on through the news company that they have a contract with now as far as the stage baptisms now i don't know nobody's religion but who wouldn't want to go outside and play in the water after being incarcerated in the Durham county jail um there are witness accounts of why this was done and why people participated surely a few may have been genuine although personally i doubt it even major couch head of security at the Durham county jail as um of where he says he's a minister but he has refused inmates worship of Islam denied them refusal i mean we denied them the use of Koran's and definitely didn't act on feed them uh it's scarce for scheduling i mean did not feed them on time when Ramadan occurred because they didn't acknowledge the practice of Islam in the Durham county jail which is against the law those are still citizens mind you and as far as the ministers and preachers of Durham North Carolina where are you in our communities why all of a sudden are you at the Durham county jail with your names being um listed in the newspaper and your churches what good is that doing the community that was for PR it has come to my attention that my people will not be able to read letters at this forum so there will be so there so i guess because they stay safe because there wouldn't be um fair acknowledgement of individuals um in individuals grievances but to enter the degree the entire the entire Durham county jail suffers from the same things nutritional food they suffer from filth they suffer from disease they suffer from skin irritation they suffer from middle breakdowns because they're being diminished and demeaned okay the gd program at Durham county jail what's the use of that the gd program you can't acquire gd so what's the point in the gd program for these various for these reasons that i have mentioned throughout this presentation we are still demanding an independent investigation into the conditions at the Durham county jail people will and need to behave accountable for the deaths as well as the neglect and the abuse that the Durham county jail and the sheriff's department has imposed on its citizens of Durham these people are still citizens the majority of them anyway it has gone on too long and i'm so ashamed that the running this facility in the middle of Durham county i mean the middle of downtown Durham across the street from the d-pad where visitors come from all over the united states and elsewhere and i say in closing that the community dictate the terms of our investigation thank you thank you miss box so what we'll do now is ask commissioner felicia ariga ariga to present a summary and examples of concerns about the the conditions of the Durham county jail based off of based on a few published reports good evening um some of the things i am going to say are going to be um repeated from what miss uh synthia fox just also stated as well from some of the reports there have been multiple reports by external organizations regarding the conditions of the jail the purpose of this portion is to ensure the community is aware of these reports their findings and recommendations in a 2016 at the request of the Durham county sheriff the u.s. department of justice conducted an operational analysis this consisted of a two-day visit of the jail and interviews with staff and people detained in the jail one component of such an assessment is a review of the overall functions and resources of the existing county criminal justice system with the intent of answering the following questions how well is the current system working our existing services and programs used to their fullest extent and effectiveness are there apparent gaps in services and programs our cases processed the system in a timely and efficient manner and how can the criminal justice system do a better job the report also provided historical information about the jail along with recommendations based on its review the department of justice reported uh that the city of Durham is responsible for sending the vast majority of people to the jail between 2011 and 2015 the city of Durham sent over 34 000 people to the jail by comparison the sheriff's office sent 10 000 over that same period all other agencies combined such as the out-of-state agencies or campus law enforcement also sent approximately 11 000 over those four years this means the city of Durham is responsible for approximately 62 percent of people admitted to the Durham county jail according to the report as of April 20th of this year only 99 of the approximately 426 people in the jail were categorized as violent for the purposes of housing meaning approximately three out of four people in the jail are not considered violent based on the jail's own housing classification system the report made 33 recommendations for improvements in the jail noting conditions such as the following the location of the window is so high the only inmates occupying an upper bunk can view the outside while standing on their bed it is not surprising that inmates congregate at the one-day room window with visibility to the outside locating almost all housing units as a result of staffing shortages as well as the reduction in population a split housing unit has been closed closing this housing unit has the effect of eliminating two housing options for specialized populations these populations are now being housed in general population housing units and managed on a lock-back basis to avoid congregation of inmates with different classifications one consequence of this approach is that inmates are less able to have time out of their cell which could potentially increase the overall agitation level of the population the report notes concerns about the limited amount of activities in the jail and the excessive amount of time in the housing units for example it notes that people are allowed to access the library for only 20 minutes every 20 every two weeks it goes on to say with the exception of the workforce and a few treatment programs inmates are locked in their housing unit for approximately 23 to 24 hours each day with the dayroom being considered an acceptable recreation area any person left with so much unoccupied time will often find counterproductive activities to fill that time the report recommended that the jail get an independent assessment of the quality and palatability of meals served to address concerns expressed by both inmates and staff food is often a source of discontent among inmates in jails generally they've been a trigger for major disturbances in other institutions quality and palatability cannot be overlooked in june 2016 the Durham county health department conducted an investigation following the in jail death of 29-year-old african-american man matthew mccain while he was in the jail on january 19 2016 following their investigation the county recommend 14 changes related to the provision of medical care and access the report noted that the medical care is provided to the jail by the private company correct care solutions the contract for this company is managed by the Durham county health department recommendations in the county's report included the following holding team meetings to discuss care and treatment for medically complex detainees consolidate advanced practice providers rather than having to advance practice providers so that patient interactions are consistent obtain read only access to duke med link for designated ccs medical staff so the providers will have access to results of off-site care provided before and or during incarceration and expected follow-up recommendation implement a special housing unit planned for detainees with complicated chronic disease protocols withdrawal protocol protocols and inmates who are wounded or wheelchair bound and work with county agencies to develop screening tools to better identify detainees with mental health diagnoses substance abuse fees and identify at any and create appropriate treatment plan in december 2015 the voluntary accreditation association for detention centers such as the gurdome county jail released a report finding that the jail fell short of its accreditation requirements including many related to health treatment screening and monitoring for example the report found health record review indicated that providers do not consistently review diagnostic tests with patients in a timely manner coupled with that patients are not consistently seen by a qualified health health care professor upon their return from a hospitalization urgent care emergency department visit on august 18 2016 a non-profit accrediting organization voted to accredit the durham county jail after finding ed complied with its standards finally as reported in the independent weekly the 2013 suicide very dometriously may have been preventable a 2013 investigation by the north caroline department of health and human services following mr lee's death noted that the jail had not yet addressed the hanging hazard in the design of the jail cells this hanging hazard of the cell design meaning the design of the cell would make it possible for someone to commit suicide had been noted in a 2011 north carolina d8 hhs report but still was left undressed by the jail at the time of mr lee's death in 2013 the investigation also found that he was improperly housed placed in a regular unit rather than one for people with mental health needs even though his medical record showed a clear history of mental health issues all of these instances were observed and reported on by external entities which led us also to request information about the ability for individuals of the durham community to tour the durham county jail we recognize that there is not a formal policy allowing individuals to tour the facility although what we did hear was many references to the comparable and sometimes exceedingly so in other county jails within the state of north carolina yet other county jails like mecca per county allow for the individuals to tour the facilities on a regular basis we look forward to a rich discussion with the community about these concerns and about any changes that have taken place some of which have already been addressed since these reports thank you thank you commissioner aria we will now lead into our question and answer session we would now like to um so we'll transition in our question and answer session we receive 43 letters representing the perspective of 93 people inside the jail all of these letters are located in a binder right here to your left to my left that we have here tonight if anyone is interested in reviewing them directly our planning committee has had the opportunity to review all the letters prior to tonight's forum and hope to bring the author's voices here tonight based on the review of the letters the committee identified core themes and concerns to shape five questions from the panelists i will alternate between questions submitted on our cards here as well as questions if the community would like to join here at the microphone as well so the first question i will ask is related to food in the jail one of the most consistent themes throughout theirs was concerning the food this range from poor quality and taste lack of nutritional quality portion size and overuse of soy products and i do understand major martin you mentioned soy products earlier some of the quotes um coming out of the letters i will quote each one directly quote we eat three times a day and still be hungry because they don't feed us properly and unquote soy food and sometimes meat by product pat please we'll get real meat chicken leg quarters twice a year thanksgiving and christmas the food is not wholesome or nutritious only the few youth get milk unquote quote it is it's as if airmark sells the meat that we supposed to get on our regular trays unquote quote receive the fruits it's always applesauce or oranges to people on special diets unquote based off of the concerns and um our question to major martin and anyone that's on the panel who provides the food for the jail if you could confirm that and then what is the process of contracting bids to feed the jail smith oh first of all a lot of the things that we are hearing are overblown and distorted and i need a chance to respond to those also such as the death of a few mechanics and now someone was notified through a text message that person was notified through a text message because that person had had him arrested and that was the vine system notifying them that he had been released from the jail it was not a death notification his family was notified the person on the deficit on his paper to notify was his aunt his aunt and notified her the detective also found his mother and notified her although she was not on that on that list so what we were questioned what we are hearing now and i'm going to defend us because i need to as a bunch of overblown distorted lies that are not an accurate reflection of the jail and i'm not going to sit here and let people get away with it because it's an absolute overblown lie most of it the food has been deemed appropriate the caleric intake is good when i was in boot camp i probably didn't eat as well and i didn't have as much space i am not going to sit here and listen to outright lies and distortions about what happens in the Durham county jail that is not why i came here just like the story with matthew mccain it was an absolute lie thank you major martin so i want to go back to the rules that we've outlined so please be respectful of the views of others we understand there's a lot of hurt in the room please be respectful of all the dialogue please consider time be brief concise although the views may bleed into other discussion topics we want to make sure that we are remaining true to the topic we're here tonight for but i did not come here to get set up and that's what it looks like um with that being said so we will um ask that we want to be respectful we'll do two minutes for questions and also two minutes for a response from each person would anyone else from the panel like to respond to the question about the food and the jail testy anyway um i can respond to the food in the jail because i've been in the jail when i said um the time i was there was 10 years ago i've been in there since then and my son was in there for the last three years so i know firsthand not just only from inmates myself that's the same food they had 10 years ago fine and we all have so had complaints about the kitchen itself or the school of food is prepared you just heard mr martin say that they recently re renovated the kitchen so that's when it was inspected but the food is still the same although they say they're changing on contracts we'll see thank you next question we have is um from our cards isn't pretrial and i think this may be for you judge mori isn't pretrial simply a form of of i'm sorry isn't pretrial simply a form of peril without having been convicted of anything instead of expanding pretrial why not reform magistrate systems instead of expanding pretrial why not reform the system well our system is made up of laws and criminal laws and procedures and we have to follow what our state statutes do i think pretrial is an added tool that does give us the benefit of not looking at the wallet the pocketbook can we do a better job of assuring someone will come to court and pretrial does much better than plopping down a hundred two hundred three hundred dollars promising i'll come to court rather than being supervised getting reminders of court dates so i think pretrial is very valuable i think they give us a lot of good information and you will see many more people have been released in this community without having to pay a dime and they get the pretrial services and the results are good they have a much better rate of coming back to court than people that just merely pay a cash bond thank you would anyone else like to respond to the question so i'll ask another question based off of the letters that we received this is related to cost and i know um that was mentioned before about the cost for medical visits um so many of the letters we receive raise issues of the costs and services in jail this included the twenty dollar cost for medical visits the cost for the use of the phone the cost for purchasing items in the canteen and in the commissary for example one person described these as high sky high commissary prices um someone also mentioned um like miss fox that the prices were higher than that of the federal the federal prison another stated armock sells us ten dollar quote armock sells us ten dollars and twenty dollar gtl prepaid phone card plus a seven dollar card fee yet the kiosk we order canteens from the card advertise sold to us for a one dollar fee price gauge gouging so the question that we have um as related to the letters on the issue related to the canteen um and this this one actually comes from the one that signed by 53 53 people how is it possible that the county jail is able to charge more than the federal prison for the food commissary and i guess that's a budget question the county jail county jail doesn't charge anything those are the vendors that we have the contracts with and we search the vendors and we try to get the best deal that we can and in the case of the phones the federal communication the FCC sets those sets the limit on those fees not the Durham county jail the Durham county jail does not generate any funds from any of this so people need to understand that Durham county jail does not generate any funds from any of this does generate funds the shirt is the shirt the company that owns the particular vendor profit from it for profit vendors well who makes the contract with them Durham county and the sheriff's office and we do the best that we can with with what's on with what's uh offered what's on the table we can't go out and create a company to to uh sell us phone service we can't go out and create a company to help us do do commissary your problem is with the system not the Durham county jail we do the best that we can mm-hmm so this and it's comparable with wake county's prices in the wake county jail we've searched that so this question goes to anyone on the panel any recommendations or suggestions to get those prices lowered or to be able to support people who cannot afford those prices so I think it's about bringing awareness to those who should have been aware about working with the system but it's also to bring a point of values um so when you see how much money is being put in to detaining our community versus our education system or our mental health system um then it says a lot about the people in power it says a lot about the people who we voted for about structural institutional racism and white supremacy right when you're checking these values so I don't have an answer for that about how we can fix it right I'm pretty sure a lot of abolitionists abolitionists will have that that answer for us thank you I will say if there's anyone in the audience that would like to kind of speak as a testimony because we were under the assumption that folks did want to do that you're also able to go to the microphone you will be given a two minute limit as well okay yes sir two minutes jail is not prison most prisoners in the detention center are being detained before trial or even without trial not everyone jailed is guilty and not everyone guilty is jailed the word warden means guardian even the word guard implies guardianship guard should guard prisoners not abuse people forced to sign waivers when I was jailed there was no toilet paper in any of the cells and there was feces smeared the wall between the toilet and the bed in every cell I was in moved from cell to cell to clean feces from the walls and when three jailers beat a prisoner for complaining I cleaned blood as well as feces from his cell and as a complainer myself cops told jailers to give him the special treatment and I and others is my in my pod subjected to group punishment were held without food or drink or medicine for more than 24 hours except drinking water from the back of the toilets where prisoners wash their socks and underwear and shitty hands and I was shackled hand and foot in a cell with prisoners told they had no food because of me and a jailer said they were going to do me like the earlier did the three against one beating by jailers except it was six against one gladiator contest for the amusement of sadistic jailers and afterwards a couple teenagers were gang raped in the open pod and then one of the jailers tossed them a rag and told them to clean yourselves up and one prisoner witness said if I see you on the outside I'll kill you so violence as well as AIDS and enteric diseases are spread in the community because of conditions in jail and prisoners were set to work and immediately prior to the arrival of inspectors entire pods of prisoners were set to work cleaning cells dayrooms kitchens and other facilities and prisoners who wanted to talk to inspectors were allowed to do so independent inspections by advocates for prisoners should be unannounced and equipped to detect temperatures and fecal contamination of food water food handling and distribution surfaces including trays and food handlers hands and water sources in cells as well as finger sticks to detect falsified blood sugar tests of diabetic poisoned by sheep glycemic diets thank you so the next question is coming from the cards infrastructures and misdemeanors not punishable by jail should not result in custodial arrest but citations like traffic tickets can that change be made changing the system so that things such as citations for traffic tickets cannot be punishable by arrest I think the greatest change can the greatest change can only come through the laws being changed on the books because the laws for the state of North Carolina are terrible to any degree this the law for books in the state of North Carolina are made just for us the sentencing the um the sentencing act when I was incarcerated in the 70s if you had a 10-year sentence you did two if you had a 20-year sentence you did four you get a 10-year sentence now you're going to do eight years almost here so the laws on the books starting from legislation to govern on down with the high level of process is that that's the only thing that's going to change anything in the state of North Carolina because as you know we're behind on everything because they keep forgetting that they didn't win civil war would anyone else like to respond I will say there was a change in the law a couple years ago that class three misdemeanors there would be no possibility of jail time it used to be you could have up to 10 days and we have a grid so while it sounded that's great if you're charged with trespass if you're charged with a class three misdemeanor open container something like that there's no possibility of jail time but you have to come to court but you might get the court costs those are going to be 180 dollars you might get a fine that may be another 25 dollars you might have to pay it in 20 days and guess what if you don't pay it then you get arrested you get arrested because you failed to comply and the whole system starts but the one really onerous thing when they said okay we're not going to put people in jail for class three misdemeanors they took away their right to counsel and so every day we have people who come in for their first appearance and that charge if it's trespassing if it's littering that's a serious charge it can go on your criminal record and as a judge I have to say when they say to me judge I'm not guilty I want a lawyer I can't afford one appoint me one say I'm sorry I can't the law no longer allows me to an appoint you an attorney and especially if you're a young teenager 16 17 and you get one of these misdemeanors from school or at the shopping mall or shoplifting or something and they need to know their rights and they may very well be not guilty there's no right to counsel and how many of them are going to go hire their own attorney so it's nefarious um it's good they're not you cannot be put in jail but we also have many people in our Durham County jail they're there because of poverty they're there because they cannot afford those court costs they can't afford the fees when we do our misdemeanor diversion program one thing we do with these kids we bring them into court we show them what could have happened and when they hear for a shoplifting case they could walk out owing a thousand dollars in fines costs these it's outrageous but the class three misdemeanor that's true thank you so I want to go to another question um associated with the letters that we received so treatment by the jail staff and looking at the letters there was a consistent feeling for being mistreated disrespected um even among people who feel that there are some great people or good people within the jail and I'll give a couple quotes they don't really act like you're human for the most part we are all treated pretty much equal with little respect unquote and this is translated from Spanish quote our lives are not important to the staff not all the staff but the majority of them unquote another quote they treat us as if we are all guilty of the crime we are charged with I'm sorry they treat us as if we are all guilty of the crime we are charged with and not like humans unquote so the question is to the panel what do you believe are some of the factors that contribute to these feelings from the jail staff jail staff at your Durham County jail like they said not all of them no joy talking they are unprofessional they degrade inmates they um they gather in groups they look down on people they're not there to judge those people they're there to just they don't do anything they have a desk they sit in the middle of the park they're they're only supposed to just to count everybody when they're locked back distribute materials such as toilet paper um writing materials things that they lowered over them when they have a issue with a certain and they or people have attitudes when you're incarcerated being incarcerated on top of being incarcerated there are going to be issues they're under staff but the staff that they do hire are very unprofessional and the things that I think that they can do to remember they have no training in how to respond to other people they don't have no human relation training at what so if and they bring their issues to work I vigorously disagree with that assessment it is totally inaccurate it is not what happens in the Durham County jail our detention officers do know how to deal with people as a matter of fact 105 of them have even gone to CIT training to help mentally ill people or people experience a mental crisis so I vigorously disagree with that and better that I can't authenticate and making these accusations like this does not in any mean provide proof of this type of activity by detention officers and I think we need to remember that we have hundreds of letters hundreds of letters just because someone writes a letter doesn't mean it's true who wrote the about it there is a grievance process you can write a letter and complain you can write a letter and complain so with respect of the moderator and I understand the struggle but it's the culture it's the culture of these policemen it's the culture of the jails right so I'm sitting in between these questions and my sister's speaking truth that I know of from me being a formerly incarcerated black man from Durham many trips to this jail it's the culture it's the culture it's learned behavior so with much respect like hear the language that we are using hear this language because for me talking about these the jail conditions bonds and our people in this jail this is not a of us very all thing this is a we think this is a people thing this is a human thing so I'm a little offended when it's a who are they I am they so I'm a little offended by that but we're in respect of the time we can continue on with the questions I'm sorry that you who are offended but I'm not going to sit here and let anybody paint a portrait like you're trying to paint because it's not true now there's a lot of frustration in the jail it's not due to the jail personnel you get your girlfriend she goes down there she gets a warrant on you for domestic assault you're depressed you come into jail you have an attitude you come into jail with an attitude the detention office is going to have to exert some control to control you so just like just paint detention offices as horrible people because I know detention officers and they are not horrible people and I don't appreciate people sitting here trying to claim it's a culture in the jail that I know what the country in the jail is it's not what you're describing I beg the different because you're in the jail every day thank you miss fox sir did you have a comment question I just wrote some stuff down that to um thank you guys attention um when I went into the jail I thought I was human until I was actually threatened to be electrocuted because I was refused to be I was stripped naked and um and I was put into this cell distressed so distressed I didn't eat for five days now this is a true story now I was there and I know so that this isn't a letter this is a real account of what happened um the my only my only crime was just being poor I mean I struggle every day with um overwhelming anxiety which has been documented and they medicated me for it the Durham County Jail does things to you and changes the life forever it it is a very very intimidating situation um did I'm just I gave them nine hundred and sixty hours of free labor and as of right now they're still suing me for money they said it was voluntary but it's not voluntary when you when you want to lock somebody away in a filthy filthy cell where you share a mop with 48 other cells it goes through every cell around every 48 different toilets and the outside alliance which one of you guys supports a mental health ward in a jail stand up which one nobody I don't see anybody standing up nobody supports that you're going after the mentally ill you're going after the mentally ill and locking them up and not giving them the help they need me now we are people yeah we're people and I and I heard this from some people and they said if you want to join the clan you go and join the sheriff's department because they lock us up anyone from the panel like to respond yes I resent the implication that we are the Q clubs clan in the sheriff's office and I resent your racial profile of me because I am a black man I am a black man who actually had the Q clubs clan burn across in his yard 33 years ago and it's covered in the newspaper the Durham Hurl son I think some of the people on this panel know about it and you're going to sit out there and tell me I'm a member of a clan organization that's what's going on that's what people are distorting and overblowing the the truth you're distorting things try to find that what he said mr martin so I would go back to the rules with being asking everyone to be respectful well when he stands up there and tells me the sheriff's office is the Q clubs clan and I had a cross burn in my yard I don't think that's being respectful because law enforcement needs some respect to you're not you're not gonna sit yeah so I will ask everyone to go and just call us out like that I'm sorry why were you in jail if at some point if at some point we didn't put you there we did not put you there dismantle the situation we will the jail did not go to the next question so what is the point of bail if people are at danger to the community can we just let them out if they are not dangerous to the community can we just let them out so again the question what is the point of bail well by law the bail is to assure your appearance in court and it's a poor way to measure that by money I told but everyone and you are presumed innocent by law you must appear in court and based on the charge and your prior record that is how bail is determined by words the impact we all know what it is I mean that's why we're here that's what we're talking about and that's why pre-trial release and other things are much better but you know being in jail they're dire consequences being away from family losing the ability to have your rent paid not getting the treatment that you need so I mean we take it seriously but that is the purpose by law constitutionally of bail thank you and then also that's why one of the indirect expenses in the jail was 402 thousand dollars for pre-trial release so we are working on that the jail but the jail is not the reason you're locked up someone goes down and gets a warrant on you or the police catch you doing something and they swear out a warrant on you the magistrate issues the warrant the jail does not lock you up the judicial system locks you up or your friend or your boyfriend locks you up when he goes down in complaints and says you hit him or you hit her that's what happens a lot of people locked up are there for interpersonal reasons interpersonal conflict and I'm sure Judge Morris sees that a lot no matter what you're locked up for you have the right to be treated like a human being I agree with that I I agree with that a hundred percent and when you come in the Durham County jail you are treated like a human being that's just being distorted you're distorting the things and you're being overblown right so before we move forward I do want to touch base on the ground rules again so allow us to be respectful of each other and understand there's a lot of emotion in the room and allow each other to talk and respect what it is that people are saying this forum was for information you know I'm learning a lot and I hope some other people in the audience are learning a lot as well so did someone want to speak over here yes ma'am yeah Paul I'm not gonna bash you real bad but but I did want to tell you some personal experience a couple of years ago I got a little five day stay in your hotel and you know the experience I had I didn't eat I went on a fast because the food that they kept bringing to that door early in the morning just wasn't cutting it so what they were saying I heard you saying that you know what they're saying is a lie well I'm just telling you what I experienced and also there were people that brought letters to my door and stuck them under there but you know I'm an activist and those letters were just passionate they had been in those cells they had been in that jail for years no attorneys come to see them they were asking me to see if I could get attorneys to come to see them I'm not the lawyer up in there and um not only that just the whole condition I went in the cell I wrote my memoirs I know why Martin Luther King wrote those papers because when you're sitting in that cell and you're just looking at that room and I saw all this writing on the wall I read for three days on the wall then you know I had this blanket these were the conditions I'm five eight the blanket was about four eight so I had to figure out what I'm gonna cover this end up or this end and this a palette they gave me this little mesh bag and I mean it was just horrible and I couldn't imagine somebody standing there for months and months and months because I was at 10 but I only did five so you know and I'm just and that a lot of the questions they asked that's policy driven that's policy legislation some local and we have to advocate to change some of that stuff now one of my suggestions for that expensive phone service is why don't y'all have a phone that the county sponsors the county a phone at the desk because that was one of my problems to being that I didn't know what the rules were when I came in I went up to the desk that little desk in the park and I said like could I use the phone and she looked at me like I was crazy but I didn't know you gotta set up something but I didn't even know how to set that up and it's real expensive but why don't they have a phone just like they do integer services when you're going to court to give your lawyer they should have a phone that it can be regulated by your detention officers but it would be available for inmate detainees that don't have the resources to have money put on the books and phone services set up so that they'll be able to communicate but outside world I can listen to that could I respond to one thing Jackie said and when I do get complaints and Jackie more often than not people come back in they say we haven't seen our lawyer we haven't seen our lawyer and then the lawyer misses their court date and they're put back in their cell and then it's another month and it's another month it's deplorable the DA's office has a grant the public defender's office has a grant and they are there to do jail management they are there to see who's there on the 500 line let's get their court date moved up let's get them out so it's a very valid complaint we're aware of it we're trying to do the best we can the statistic that if you look at that Durham County jail and you think of 500 some people in there I was amazed I had no idea only 27 percent are there serving a sentence 73 percent are there waiting trial and if you have a superior court case and that's pure court judge is there on cases been a you may be there two or three years presumed innocent waiting for a trial is a horrible system thank you sir you had a response yes very briefly or Judge Maury I'm going to speak directly to you because we have some ties that bind but you don't know about them I came up under Diane Gerrity and Thomas Gerrity at Northwestern University I'm a member of the prisoners rights organization from Northwestern University I'm also a member outside of our inside outside alliance we must protest we're going to continue to protest nothing will derail our protest that's number one we're going to turn the notch up a little bit to economic withdrawal the parts were set up on the same foundation that behavior modification is set up in Cook County jail the inmates are being behavior deprived of their century they call it behavior modification if you look at Cook County jail in the system here in Durham they are set up on the same model that's why you have inmates coming in and going out coming in and going out because they are not being being transformed from what the original should be now in my conclusion I want to say no one is beating up on you Martin it's your job to do what you're doing that's why we asked for Mike Andrews don't send us no substitute to answer to the authority that's in the legislature that you just read send us the man that's responsible for the jail if he can't come then why would you come how you're going to represent a man that you really don't know anything about I know you black but they use our face they use our black to front as a front to cover up the masquerade what is going on we want to inside public investigation we will sell us for nothing else thank you sir would the panel like to respond it's unfortunate that race keeps being mentioned here and no one is mentioning what is happening in our community we have $200 million drug economy I didn't mention that I I have not mentioned that yet it's the cause of black we we have we have 195 people shot in Durham and the system is the cause of black on black crime the problem the problem is the problem yeah and we hear from the can we hear from the panel thank you if you have something to say please feel free to walk over to the microphone thank you the problem is there's still personal responsibility and some of what I'm hearing is enabling behavior if a young man gets out of a car and wearing a mask and shoots up a house 20 times and kills two people that's his action he's for it and as long as you continue to make excuses for it it's going to get worse and worse and worse now I understand the criminal justice system has its issues I don't agree with the bonding process I don't agree with the sentencing process but if you sit here and engage in enabling behavior and people are out here killing each other and shooting each other every day 195 people shot last year you make excuses for it you blame the system but you got to take that you got to pick that gun up and you got to use it and you got to shoot somebody and there's such a thing as personal responsibility I understand things have to be taken in context I understand if you grow up and you see your brother kill you're probably going to carry a gun I understand what happens but don't sit there and make excuses for people who kill people who shoot up houses who shoot someone's grandmother and she loses her leg when she just got out of the hospital stop engaging in the enabling behavior if you want to stop some of this criminal activity that's going on are you making excuses for someone who picks up a gun and shoots into a house 20 times because he was disrespected is that what you're doing the panel the panel the panel the panel the panel the united states government sends people toward everyday killing people they've never seen what's the difference well they don't shoot each other's grandma all right so we'll go to a question from our cards um and this question I think is for Mr. Muhammad as well as other folks on the panel could you speak about what does um what do the numbers look like for non-citizens and Latino demographic what what do the Latino demographics look like for the prison and also their partnerships with immigration um and I guess the jail system or law enforcement I'm sorry I don't have that on my paper but this was public information so we call looking to this together thank you hold up we got yeah so um on the database that we received for these statistics is it not okay for the statistics um SESJ received it would the categories are black white Asian and an I and you and it was unclear as to what we were not given a key so that's why we're unable to find the statistics thank you and the other part of the question was in relationship to any partnerships um with those in immigration between the law system the the local law enforcement or the jail system I'm sorry all I know is community and grassroots organizations and we don't have those type of resources and access thank you um ma'am did you want to okay can you hear me I understand where what is that Paul Martin is coming from where I feel you just personally attack Matthew McCain because I am the mother of his child Matthew McCain that is my question is how can you just assume that it was the victim that received the message because it's the vine system and the vine system notifies the victim when a person is released and that I can tell you that's not true because I've signed up for several inmates that I don't even know and I get calls for them all the time the jail does not run the vine system this is yet another thing that the jail does not run okay so my next question is when the day that Matthew McCain died why would is it put out as a general release of his death and he was dead that's not a general release he was dead his his mother was notified would you allow me to speak his mother was notified his aunt was notified all deaths in the jail are treated as criminal investigations a detective went to the cell a detective reviewed everything the Durham County Health Department reviewed everything and the state reviewed everything and there was in Matthew McCain died of natural causes there was no conspiracy to kill Matthew McCain all that is overblown distortions and people need to know the truth well that's that's your opinion we all have our own opinions well my opinion is based on the reality of investigation and yours is based on your opinion well it's based on I know there's more to the story that's what mine is based on well we but anyways my next question just like you you've done your investigation but you not once not once has anybody from that Durham County jail called his daughter called the family and let them know anything you know how we found out about the investigation right newspaper we saw it on the website random people give us autopsy reports we've never heard anything from anybody from the sheriff department except for the day that y'all told us hours after he was dead that he was dead and I'm done well here here we go here we go we're using a very emotional volatile situation and and blowing and distorting the facts of what occurred and and I have to be honest and I cannot allow that to occur excuse me the very day that Matthew the very day that Matthew died I was notified before even the family I was notified from one of the inmates in a cell next to his that he had died so I know it firsthand before you know before you or step do anything about his death because there was no one in that cell to respond in that cell block to even respond to his calls and the man that that that they did try to contact he left out the whole sale so it was a whole half an hour before anybody even came to where his body was that is totally untrue it is totally I was on the phone with the individual that was in the cell with you all shipped him out thank you it is totally unfounded with respect to with respect to the young lady who just asked the question I'd like to kind of move on and make sure we discuss everything so thank you for your voice but I do want to ask one question and that was mentioned the vine system and I'm asking as a citizen what is the vine system that you're speaking of it's a state run it's a state run system and if you charge someone with a crime if I go down and swear out a warrant on you and I say you hit me and it's a maybe domestic violence then if you if you are released from the jail I mean if they release you from the jail then I will be notified the victim will be it's a victim notification system and for some reason when mr. McCain died it was considered released and miss I don't know your name was notified that he was released but he was actually deceased but that is not a job that is not a function of the jail of the Durham County jail much like what we're discussing frustration with the criminal justice system sentencing bonds almost anything which you just the system has nothing to do with the Durham County jail except we get frustrated people in there and sometimes they attack people and sometimes they fight and anybody who's been in jail knows that too but I don't hear anybody talking about that we have predators in the jail that attack other people we have people in the jail that take food from other detainees but nobody's talking about that predators are the same I totally disagree with that as usual we do we do and when we protect them then we get accused of being overbearing that is just outright wrong it's just it's not it's not the way to have a discussion all this distortion and oversimplification all right accomplishes nothing so I'll ask the question from the card um and this is a question I believe that's coming from a citizen so why is the sheriff's department against jail staff wearing body cameras or I guess another question is what are there cameras within the jail there are cameras everywhere in the jail already there are cameras everywhere in the jail that's why I know some of the things that are being said about the McCain are false there there are cameras everywhere in the jail except for some stairwells thank you and it probably be a waste of the taxpayers money to put body cameras on everybody when you have cameras on everybody anyway we have to consider the taxpayers also and how much money we spend we don't have an unlimited resources even with food we can't buy everybody a steak every day excuse me the Durham County commissioners gave the jail two million dollars two million dollars and cut the education budget so you're explaining to me the significance of that statement you just made previously I am not a member of the Durham County commissioners I see you work for the Durham County jail they gave the Durham County jail aren't you representative of the Durham County jail the sheriff's department well 21 million dollars is spent on the jail doing everything that needs to be done to keep the people the detainees safe to keep the public safe it's a well-run jail and it's even stated in some of the investigations that were done some young lady read something from the independent news like it was a jail investigation that was independent news and a lot of that stuff in that article was false and wrong and misleading and that was corrected with a phone call to the independent newspaper I didn't come here to sit and listen to people lie about the jail if you have a legitimate grievance tell me but don't oversimplify and distort things don't justify people killing each other and say it's the system's fault thank you sir thank you for respect so I'm going to go back to the letters um that we received um so I will I will however I'm rotating between the letters that we received and also the cards and also folks that want to ask a question here so another concern was with relationship to lockdown and if you could help us kind of clarify what that actually is because again we have community members that may not understand so um this concern is about the amount of time that people actually spend inside their cells without sufficient time outside of the cell to engage other type of activities and um I guess with the question if if you all could clarify what those extras other activities could possibly be um some of the quotes quotes are they keep us locked up 16 hours a day unquote quote we are allowed to come out of our cells two times daily besides breakfast that is rough six hours out of a 24 hour period unquote quote we eat breakfast at 6 45 and eat lunch at 11 30 and dinner at 4 30 p.m. and then lockdown for the rest of the night at 6 45 unquote so the question is what is the amount of time that someone spends in their cell each day um do other panelists have ideas of way to spend the time while inside the jail and again kind of clarifying what those extracurricular activities could actually be well first of all everyone is out of their cell unless they're on the unless they are in disciplinary mode eight hours a day so they're locked back six they're locked up 16 hours a day but they're out of the jail out of the cell eight hours a day the state requires I believe one hour every three days or something we're way above what the state requires in terms of letting people out of their cells and that's a fact they're out eight hours a day and if they're on work detail they're probably out 10 hours a day and people do volunteer for work detail all the time or to get out they say all right well that's true young man please speak please speak well the first thing I want to say is about the distortions one thing about human experience is and especially with these these cases that we have is you have competitive personal accounts with similar detail there's obviously has to be something going on um so I don't I can't um get with you on that distortion because there are multiple people letters and people here who say that there's hasn't something wrong with the food so that in some instance has to be true secondly I read the top scology report for Matthew McCain's death and autopsy the medical examiner said he died of an epilepsy I don't think that's fact second fact the two medicines that he needed for his epilepsy and diabetes were extremely low that's fact third thing is within your investigation there was a log that stated that Boria um in fact did not go around his cells so with that being said there has to be something there so how can you validate that investigation with all these facts in play so I want to hear I want to hear that Boria did go around the cell that's not what was important investigations I don't know the people were there to assist him with his diabetic diabetes at 5 30 that morning why was it why was the top scology report tells us that instant level and other uh uh dilaton were extremely low how can you I'm not a medical doctor I don't know well that's fact you the Durham county jail does not administer medicine the medical provider administers medicine and he said he wasn't getting his medicine he told the office that he needed his medicine obviously because where does that go of the chain and he died of an epilepsy so he died of something medical well he said there was something going on he had a he had an attack he had a cedar the prior so he received medical treatment for that why was it extremely low I don't know you'll have to ask the doctor thank you thank you man that's not what's in the health report so that is not what is in the report so with with respect to time um we'll have um the last two acknowledgments and then we will also have follow final responses from our panel sir major martin I'll give you a break on this one I am a defense attorney so I do understand the need for reform for the justice system that a lot of that falls on the legislature the challenge is that everyone in this room knows that's not going to happen anytime soon so my question is to mr. Muhammad miss fox if you want to join in judge mori what can be done without legislative action to reduce the number people coming through the jail regardless of his conditions because the fact is in jail for me to do my job what can we do to reduce that number if the legislature is not going to do anything thank you for your local level on a local level I think that that um now the way that the city is spending money in Durham building up Durham they're pushing out the little people the little people they're standing on our shoulders in order to get where they got to go so if people have no don't have fair housing they don't have that cut the education programs if people don't have food and housing there's going to be held today so basically it's basic basic needs that people need in the in Durham North Carolina basic needs food shelter water and in the right to worship the way they want to that would change a whole lot especially with our young people our young people have no hope they have no hope they have little to no hope so they're fighting for spacing there they're fighting for areas to raise their little children and doing whatever they have to do by any means necessary to take care of their kids so that's all I got to say about that because too passionate about that so and that's that's a great question um and if I had all the answers just wait right here but I can tell you some of the things that Southern Coalition spirit house all of us are none and just people out in the Durham community that um have been doing so Southern Coalition you'll hear about the clean slate clinic where Southern Coalition will expunge your criminal background or give you certificate of relief if eligible what you may not hear is that all of us in the spirit house facilitates these clinics to give out community education right so although these people have already been through the justice system we still have some practices that the community may not know about we still have fade in the fade recommendations and things of this nature that we know is going to keep our community safe so not only do I love Durham because I'm from Durham right but the love that the communities have for each other right looks different so the harm free zone that spirit house facilitates to talk about community police and it's not even community exercising their right to be community to love on your neighbor right and to protect your neighbor these are initiatives that's happening in Durham that people don't hear about right because they're not heavily funded these are not no big resources and people of power like don't respect it right if we're saying we're the first responders to stuff that happens in our community all right when you hit my brother or my brother hits you you'll call the police you call the community so we can hold my brother accountable all right so I'm I have in coming from my lifestyle right like from so many trips to the Durham County Jail like one summer I went there every month like it's time to go to the jail every month for a whole summer the transition of my life came when I met people in the community doing restorative justice when I met people in the community that was able to title and name white supremacy structural institutional racism and people who have learned behaviors that's exercising this stuff so I don't have the answer but what we've been doing participatory defense we've been filling up them courtrooms with our people to say keep my brother or keep my sister home right we're not just some of our worst mistakes which most judges DA's are looking at to say you know this person's look at this rap sheet there's some of their worst mistake and yeah we shouldn't give them a bond or we shouldn't let them out we shouldn't do this we're starting to fill up them courtrooms with our community right so white people black people people who don't have any charges but understand the system people who have charges that don't want their people to go through it again are coming to the courtroom say you honor let my people stay home he walks these groceries across the street fire neighbor every day all right he watches my son when I have to go to work and I work three jobs because the system is already took the father of my child to the system so here in Durham I think that we're doing some great stuff you got you've just this project doing some great work um around raising the age and other issues you got hornfree zone doing a spirit house doing hornfree zone trainings and it's working right so I'm like I said I'm in these communities and we're able to practice these exercises with the people that the system is throwing away thank you Mr. Mohammed and Mr. Deset I would say you know we look all the time how can we stop this revolving door and some things are so simple if you have a court date you walk in five minutes late your name had just been called you can go in that call them fail box order for rest some judges will bring the call them fail box recall the names don't put out orders for rest for people are five minutes late don't put out orders for rest for people are in Duke hospital and they miss their court date so we started something blue sheets anybody miss your court date you got home failed put it why I look at blue sheets every afternoon before I leave work we've reduced the jail intakes by at least 15 percent because people have things come up I mean how we become more understanding the Mr. Marin diversion program it was successful for 16 17 year olds it's up to age 22 now don't arrest these people for minor marijuana offenses drug offenses so people are trying and we don't want debtors prison if you don't have the ability to pay don't put them in jail for feathered we're looking and I'll talk anyway we don't want you in jail for those reasons we don't I do not understand child support if you want to demonstrate against something demonstrate against child support somebody who can't pay their their bills and one guy was arrested on the way to work he just got another job now he's lost that job because he's locked up for child support another thing is when a person is arrested and charged and the charge is dismissed or dropped it shouldn't be on your record the whole the whole thing is rigged against you you can't get an apartment or anything there was a young man who who was arrested for murder and a home invasion who was innocent who spent a month in the jail that's not the jails fall we didn't put him there but it's on his record and unless he gets it expunged and even when you get expunged now there's all these other databases you go to rent a house they run you through a database like accurate it's going to show he was arrested for first-degree murder and first-degree burglary and people are going to be hesitant to even rent him an apartment so that that's two of the things that can be done the third thing that's going can be done if you're in the black community or a minority community or any community you keep fighting among yourselves and you call the police and you want them arrested and the police arrest them don't go try and white you don't go crying about white supremacy in the rig justice system because you're the one that got them arrested try to work it out there's something that needs to be said every day on the radio so-and-so he hit his girlfriend up beside the head or she tried to run over them with a car and they're steadily coming in the court system that needs to be addressed in the community a lot of these arrests are because people in the community are having each other arrested you mean to tell me because women are better they can't call not at all i didn't say that i didn't say that at all specific i'm being specific i'm saying a lot of times this is just pure horse manure with people you shoved me i shoved you go down and get a warrant on me or you said you're gonna beat me and you don't beat me i get a warrant for communicating threats now you know that happens and a lot of people come to jail for that thank you mr martin so major martin so as acknowledged you will have one more question or acknowledgement for the community and then we will have final acknowledgments from our panel and that should move us into close to eight o'clock thank you okay so my question is kind of like his question but it's more so for you mr martin um i don't know how are we going to fix an issue if what is happening right now is that you are completely throwing out people's truths in this room you have people next to you that are telling you lived experiences people in the audience telling you their lived experiences letters of people telling you of their lived experiences and what you've continued to do is say that they're disrespecting you by telling you their truth but you're disrespecting them by telling them all their liars no that's not what that's not what i said at all over and over you have called people it called everybody in here a liar instead it's an out lie and all this kind of stuff and you can't bring up race but the reason why racism is being brought up is because if you look at the disparities of what is happening in Durham you can see who it is that's being arrested you can see who it is that's being over criminalized and over police and so then i also want to say when you're talking about these people who are doing these things which people are you talking about since you just said you want criminals who are the criminals because you just said if you live in a black community right minority community and you have a disagreement and you call the police don't get mad and call racism so then you're you're basically saying it's our communities that are the ones that are doing these things shooting each other and all this stuff that's the racism no it is so my question is how are we gonna fix anything want to acknowledge anything i do acknowledge everything you can answer when when some when some comes when some can i speak please when something comes to the attention of the sheriff's office we investigate it we look at it thoroughly i can't you read a from an unknown person i can't even authenticate that it's real okay i can't even authenticate that it's real and where where are the shootings happening all over the united states all right thank you so much for your response thank you so much for the community would you all like to have a one-minute final response panelist okay um in closing for this evening um may god bless everybody and i hope everybody continues to act together to try to do something about the conditions at the darren county jail and be safe on your way home from the polis thank you miss fox missy mohammed no i should have like thought of something real powerful at this moment right drop the mic thanks heaven um honestly a lot of y'all faces are just so familiar because we've been working around the same issue for quite some time whether you're in an organization or you're just a community resident i appreciate you and i appreciate you sharing your truth um and the way i was i've been trained in this organizing is to listen to community um and i appreciate you all and and i hope that i can continue to work with you all this i i feel like it's so much love and so much unity in the community especially the voices who've been thrown away like this is it's apparent that this is a us thing all right and it feels like we're fighting by ourselves sometimes so with my last three seconds that i'm about to go over let's continue to work together let's continue to bring our organizations together let's continue to share best practices share resources let's continue to share our information so that we can like beat this monster down so we can overcome these barriers you know and and i'm here all the way with it if i feel i ten more seconds look this is my life right so in my closing remarks like this is my life like this is everything that my mother was telling me about this is everything when she said keep your eyes lower keep your hands down don't make no sudden movements and get home safe all right i didn't listen to that for so many times and thank god i'm not dead right but i'm a person with a lived experience and i understand how important our stories are and i'm willing to hold that space wherever however whenever and yeah thank you mr. Hyman major martin final remarks i never said that we were perfect i do not believe in us versus them mentality but some of what i've seen tonight is exactly the way it was set up to present it in that mode as if it was us against martin or the sheriff's office i've heard things that have been totally untrue about the sheriff's office i know that they're untrue and i'm not going to sit here and take it the first thing the first element of having a good conversation is to tell the truth i'm not going to sit here and lie to you this part of this stuff is rigged some of these letters are rigged they've not been authenticated and i don't believe them because i i know the jail i've investigated what happens in the jail there's cameras in the jail now i understand there's frustration with the criminal justice system i don't like a lot of elements of the criminal justice system i just made some suggestions but you can't have it all one way don't get in a fight with someone and call the cops and blame the cops in the jail because they get arrested don't tell me you don't have some person with responsibility when you take an ak-47 rifle and shoot in the house 30 times it's your old woman and she loses her leg there is some personal responsibility and you'll thank you major martin judge marie um this is Durham this is who we are we get in vigorous discussions and topics but it's worth it and we got to keep doing it and we got to come together and i'll tell you recently every judge just went through our racial equity training and it changed all of us dramatically the bottom line is you got to understand take time listen and most of all care so thank you very much for tonight thank you so with that said um we'd like to hope we as the um human relations commission would hope that this dialogue continues thank you very much to our panelists judge marie major and mr. common thank you to the team of inside outside for giving those um in the jail of voice by collecting and sharing the letters you received thank you to my fellow fellow hrc commissioners in the room supporting this forum thank you to our local council members and community leaders in the room and thank you to the resources advocates citizen and citizens of Durham for joining us tonight i'll help you all will be charged to educate yourselves to ask questions and share perspectives on this issue please know the Durham human relations commission will do the same again this will be a continued conversation um there will be a posting on the teleprompters with our next meeting for the human relations commission we welcome anyone to join us um and with that phil would you like to say a couple words as we close out tonight thank you thank you london this is a great job of moderating uh someone had asked what can we do to change things we all know what we need to do to change things i have the people here i've seen at other rallies on different subjects you're doing the steps that are necessary to change things you're engaging you're talking to the leadership vote go out and vote don't just vote when there's a president vote at the local level find out who agrees with your opinion and vote if you disagree with the human relations commission's findings or anybody's findings in the city council keep fighting them keep fighting until your your opinion is heard or disproved i appreciate every uh all the panelists coming here there was a lot of emotions in this room there's a lot of frustration on this subject and i'm hoping that this is a first step for a larger dialogue throughout the city with that i'll let you thank you commissioner phil so thank you again and we hope that you all will continue the conversation and have a wonderful evening thank you