 Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen Welcome to this session Entitled Latin America and the world my name is Eric Schatzger. I'm an editor at large with Bloomberg television It is a great honor and pleasure for me to be here back in Buenos Aires One of my favorite cities in the whole world and back with the World Economic Forum an organization With which I have spent much of my time over the past several years most of it in Davos It's my first opportunity to be at a Latin America weft I'd like to begin by reminding everybody That there are some rules of common courtesy that we'd like to observe here Please if you have to take a phone call do it outside the plenary hall Use your phones if you would be so kind or put them on vibrate so that we don't disturb Not just your fellow members of the audience, but more importantly the panelists and the flow of the conversation I'd be most grateful and I know they would as well I'd like to introduce to you The panelists here and Before I do remind everybody that there will be an opportunity to ask questions. I hope you have come armed with many probing Perhaps edgy Questions and I encourage you to take the opportunity when I make it available to you Some 40 minutes from now, but without further ado to my left I'd like to introduce you to Susana Marcorra. She is the Minister of Foreign Affairs and Worship here in Argentina She came to government after a 25-year career at IVM in telecom, Argentina and a distinguished roles at the world food program In the United Nations including as Chief of Staff to the Secretary General To her left You'll see Ricardo Luna. He is the Foreign Minister of Peru He is a career diplomat a former ambassador to the UN to the US to the UK He's a visiting professor professor excuse me or has been in international relations at Princeton, Colombia Brown Harvard and Sciences Po in Paris To his left you see Hans Paul Burkner To your right my left Hans Paul Burkner He's the chairman of the Boston Consulting Group one of the world's top consulting firms It goes without saying and also the brains behind Concepts corporations now today for granted like stars and dogs The experience curve and the advantage matrix Hans Paul has more than in his tenure as CEO He more than doubled BCG size and finally at the end of the row here. We have James M He's the CEO of E. J. McKay and company a Shanghai based investment bank with offices around the globe James has more than 20 years of experience as a banker and a consultant You will have seen on the program that Michael rake the chairman of BT was to join us unfortunately due to Well, what's going on outside? He was unable to make it to Argentina on time I'm delighted that the rest of you were and then our panelists were although Susanna here didn't have far to travel As you can see these people all have extraordinary resumes and make me feel very very inferior So we don't believe that I Think the right place to begin is By talking about the question We've been asked to answer how can the region navigate the new global realities and strengthen its position in the world I believe we need to define first the new global realities and Consider why they're relevant to Latin America. So to my panelists. I put that question to begin the conversation We may think they're obvious But what are the new global realities? Hans Paul, why don't you begin? Yeah Actually, we always talk about a new normal or new new normal and new realities I think of course we have been seeing changes over the last year since the financial Crisis in North America in Europe But the question is, you know, what has really changed we have Somewhat slower growth which of course has made life in many countries more difficult We have higher unemployment not everywhere, but in a quite a number of countries And that has put more pressure on on on the peoples but also on governments and on companies and I think one of the the key Challenges we now see is that there is more aversion towards openness towards globalization People questioning whether this has really benefited them even though clearly I mean the world is in a much better stage today and most people are Much better off than they were 20 30 40 years ago But still we need to listen to this and we I think it's very important not to Disrespect people by calling them. Okay. They're just following populist They they don't understand what's going on I think the new reality is that we need to ask ourselves the tough questions. How can we? Deal with those challenges with the people who are dissatisfied better Because if we don't there will be more Election results, which we may not like and there may be even social unrest And I think we need to address that I'm not sure that we are Reversing globalization even though some of the rhetorics that we are hearing are quite bad I think that will probably normalize over the coming years But we certainly need to address the issues of people who who feel that they have been left behind Even though maybe in absolute terms they are not worse off But in relative terms they feel they are left behind and I think we need to take it seriously and not be Disrespectful or even arrogantly Disregarding those needs. I thought that was an excellent way to begin this conversation And I suppose I have to congratulate you Hans Paul for answering a question like that without using either the word Trump or populism Well, I actually I said populism once but I forgive me anyway Let's continue Well, I might just say that I agree with what you just said But I think that we really have a on our hand a major Break in the premises that that was set forward when the process of globalization became Universal and accelerated and when it went into a crisis mode after the financial crisis Because basically because of the the t-word you don't want me to use or the p-word that you don't want me to use Is don't Trump don't be afraid of it. There's nothing to be afraid of Is is is part of the reality not only part of the reality I think that we have to understand why these anomalies take place and I think the origin of these inpatients and irritation With the facts of life that despite the growth despite the universality and and and the perfect ability of the model of globalization The immediate benefits have not really accrued to a large part of the populations and this is the first time it's actually happened at the heart of the developed world and so the question comes not only from North America and from Britain vis-a-vis Europe, but two countries or two Leaders of what was the post Britain Woods world order so you have an implosion from the heart Which is being abetted by social irritability social inpatience None of this is going to make a model that will replace either the process of globalization or Construct an awkward system of international relations but clearly it makes the combination of both the process of globalization in this sort of involution and the Unpredictable nature of what is likely to succeed to replace the current model completely dysfunctional So this is something that we have to be aware of the first globalization process which took place literally 500 years ago was when Mexico was present in 1517 in Montezuma and the Portuguese sent a mission to Canton and Macau between then and now lots of things have happened But globalization is here to stay despite the threats of this ambiguous national economic National nationalism of an economic nature, which is purely tied up with a retrenchment From the global indispensable power. Thank you Normally I should speak Spanish. I apologize to my colleagues and friends and fellow citizens, but I think So to keep a more convenient conversation flow I will switch train this so my apologies for that Bill on what has been said first of all. I think that what has happened is that it has been a distance in between the peoples and their leaders Citizens feel essentially that their concerns their worries their uncertainties are not addressed by the leadership political leadership and leadership at large and that has created a agitation in in the world and and we have seen that translated into the way people have expressed themselves in through through a casting their their ballots But I also believe that there is a big confusion in what why is it that there is uncertainty? What are the reasons the deep reasons why people feel that their future is may not be as Bright as as they will like why people believe that their children may not have as good opportunities at the as they would like and there has been a mixture of Globalization as was just explained by my predecessors and another reality, which is the disruption of technology and my sense is that a lot has been given to globalization as the reason for our concerns and worries instead of tackling what is the real deep issue which is technological disruption is Recreating the demand for jobs in a manner that has no precedence in the in history at a speed that has no present in history So we are at a point where we talk a lot about the root causes of what has brought us to where we are as explained by my predecessors, but we are essentially given the wrong a Reason to why is it that we are bad diagnosis? The diagnosis is essentially in our view wrong And we run a big risk that if we don't go back to basics to the drawing boards on what is the Diagnosis long-term we may get first to a Cycle of the P word as you said it But on top of that the P word will not address the real problem and we will get into a spiral down of Troubles, so I think it's time for all of us to think through The the problem to address the diagnosis to talk about why jobs are being lost Why is it that the skills and the demands miss have a mismatch and then collectively work on that? And I think that's where the opportunity for the region is I Just want to follow up on Susanna's comment on technology And also the comment on globalization and one thing very interesting is about the mobile phone I just left my phone with my friend at the front row and Yesterday I was at the reception. I took a photo of all of the cheese and send it over to my friends in China so really Technology or the internet the phone really make us feel physically Much closer that is all together. I mean the past before You know, I was able to send a picture from here back home right away people probably feel on America is very far away and now People feel that we are just very very close together. So that's one Let's say virtual reality is well together and second thing else also want to comment on interestingly while the phone Especially the phone more than the computer brings up brings up so much closer together I flew over here and that still takes me the same number of hours as compared to 20 years ago That is the airplane has not been much faster has been the same speed But I guess both matter one is that we feel we're very close together and second There is a land America still quite far from where I live in Shanghai. So that's one observation then second is I Guess it's more of a Chinese reality But also prior impacts that does especially impact, you know, a lot of places in Latin America is that China's growth has Slown down. So what we want to call in the past the growth in China was probably translated directly from the Chinese term Was a barbaric growth? That is we just consumed a lot of energy a lot of natural resources and also a lot of pollution And then that led to also a lot of problems and now You simply cannot keep consuming energy and raw materials and just build roads and steel, you know Continuously forever. So China has really slown down a trim down on those growth But then we have to think about what what next? So, you know, what I see two things that we are people are closer together So let America to everyone in China, especially Argentina. Everybody knows, you know, the football Madonna was here with the country in China. Yeah Yeah, so we are closer and and also we we need to think about how to face The slower but also prior more Let's say discipline growth of China and in addition is we also have to face The new reality in the United States what Hong's Paul coined populist The growth but can I can I say one more thing? I mean just also reflecting on what James and Susanna have been saying I think we always try to separate globalization technology and so forth and I think just building on what James said actually they are very deeply intertwined globalization without the technology Would not be thinkable. I mean the connectivity that has massively increased that allows to move products and services at Great speed to have global supply chains or regional supply chains again would not have been possible without the technology So I think when we try to diagnose what has gone wrong You know, we need to see them in close think and I think one of the other things We always argue with facts and as a consultant, of course, I'm very analytical I can give you all the statistics and quite honestly nobody cares Yeah, so when you talk to people in the street They just don't care about this and and I think we need to We must not underestimate the emotions and you cannot address the emotions with more and more facts That does not mean I do don't agree with you. So I'm just saying I've tried this And it doesn't work. So we need to find a new narrative And we need to find real ways of helping people to move forward to shape their own destiny and to really Feel that they really benefit But let me let me add something to that when you look into the United States just to be very direct and go to the heart of the issue The the reasoning is that the US has lost jobs to globalization you see the figures as you said people don't care about the figures and There is a net increase in jobs in the United States in the last stage seven eight years The problem is that the type of jobs that are being created do not go to the Midwest Where jobs are lost they go to the coast where different profiles and skills are needed. So at the heart Yes, it's true that globalization is enabled by the ability to have more technology that gets us closer But even if there was no globalization and everything was constrained within the country's boundaries There is a shift in the type of jobs and and again the example of Tracks being driven by nothing by nobody which will be a reality 10 15 20 years from now And it's the biggest source of labor in the US Proves that we have something that goes beyond the technology as an enabler of globalization Is that the knowledge itself being disruptive to create different types of jobs different added value jobs But the the all white color jobs Basic jobs are either going to be Destroy or are going to be a stagnant in their income or even lose income so that is part of of the great challenge and and Concern and and and fear that people have and you're right people couldn't care less about figures But how do you handle that reality and how do you create the narrative for that reality and more than created the narrative? How do you tackle the issue? So you find ways to move forward in a manner that people feel the opportunity to retool themselves That's to me the biggest challenge like can I pick up on that? I think that first of all the jobs that were lost in the Midwest in the United States were blue collar jobs rather than white collar jobs They were not lost to outsourcing but to robotics when I accompany President Kaczynski to visit President Trump about a month ago of two months ago We mentioned that to him and he said he was perfectly in agreement with that He or he least he noted giving an assent to that discursor clearly that was not the message He was giving during the campaign that made him win So that gives you an idea that still Accuracy in communication is something to be cherished whether we have great advances in technology or not I think a timing on the one hand and face-to-face Interpersonal relations is are important not only on on a social basis and a business basis or on a diplomatic basis because as Susana can tell you we have What's up between a number of foreign ministers in Latin America and it's perfectly absolutely confusing I have no idea what she's saying or what I'm saying if I'm talking to her or talking to the Chilean ambassador or the Mexican ambassador We have lots of brows which we make up as soon as we see each other So I mean so technology has a cutting edge as well. Thank you We need to move on to what you all came for which is answers But before we get there, I think it's important for us to address one more point Is the new reality that we've been discussing here? something to fear and I think we need to to really make sure that people are not just looking at what Susana has described with fear But see the opportunity and I would like to to go back one thing that we worked on last year for the G20 B20 in Hangzhou in China As part of one of the task forces, I mean Jack Ma has been pushing the electronic worldwide trading platform And that is really meant to enable Tens of millions of people to build their own business to reach out to customers around the world from wherever from Argentina to China or Europe Or wherever or just to Brazil or just to Cordova from here And the same time also reach out to suppliers to do all the payments Across the platform and to to arrange for the logistics. So I think instead of Only pointing out we will I mean robotics on artificial intelligence will destroy You know all our jobs starting with consultants and maybe also journalists from Bloomberg, sorry It will it will leave the the politicians in place still so, you know, nobody has talked about replacing politicians yet So that's that's the good news But for the rest of us it's tough But I think you know to to really Demonstrate to people that actually technology will bring more opportunities and I've seen people in Africa You know a young woman, you know selling her fashion now in in Europe via the internet and so forth And actually getting paid which is also good and creating more jobs pursuing in Ghana I think that's a that's I think these are the stories which we need to have a lot more And I'm sure that's also possible here in Argentina and across Latin America So we need to be careful not just to paint a picture where we become all obsolete What may I say? I agree But in the short term I think in at least in the next two years We have a need to fear at least to be anxious or at least to be careful for two reasons you you the countries Who are like-minded and likely to defend a renewal? Or resiliency in the process of globalization are here the region Latin America is committed to that There's no doubt about that However, you have two years of extraordinary difficult clumsy negotiations between the European Union and Great Britain Which is likely to have a negative effect on world economic growth not just trade you have These same two years during which time the Trump administration is unlikely to complete finishing getting Organized at the senior level of the administration that on the one hand and finally what you have As least as symptoms is the possibility of adversarial Positions in terms of trade from the point from the point of view of China and and the United States While at the same time there isn't there's a clear commitment through global retrenchment by the one indispensable power as it likes to call itself United States Well, you know uncertainty brings fear Whether you like it or not and there is uncertainty in the world So it is factual that there is fear floating there going beyond the people's I mean at the leadership level also But I think there is also as we discuss opportunities and yes We talk a lot about what opportunities technology brings but I will go back to basics one of the biggest challenges the world faces is food security and When you look at the risk inventory of what are the highest risk in the world food insecurity is at the very top Because food insecurity as much as water scarcity will bring tensions and will be a Really a real problem between countries and within countries Food security going back to your point on the region is an opportunity for the region This is a region that could grow in the value chain in food security providing not only self-security Which essentially is almost there, but provide a Source of food and food security to other parts of the world. This is not going to go away So one of the demands the world has Latin America Argentina can offer solutions for but it's again not only providing the basic raw material a Moving up in in the ladder of the value chain, but also partnering and and complementing other regions where South South cooperation learning from the experiences can help build their own capacity So this is one area where we as a region can build on and can secure part of our ability to to develop There are others, but I think that's one big example of an opportunity that we have to cease the questions about whether The new reality is a cause of fear actually Something not whether it is that address the fact that it's a cause of fear, but is it something to fear? Oh, yeah I think so I'm actually Well, you know for some minority of people drive Tesla They're probably fearless, but for those who make diesel engine cars. I think it's the better be fearful But you know take it actually a step further is that I think it is something to fear because the the new reality really means there will be a lot of job shifts and If you think about you know, it's easy to say that you know, let's say, you know, especially students of economics Especially those who went to who go to the lead American schools already think that free trade is good But free trade does you know create value But for those people who have been making cars for the past 25 years and then once the car making shifted to another place What do they do? You think they can quickly become IT, you know service professional probably won't happen I mean, that's exactly what happened to the US election because people need jobs so I think it is actually a pretty big concern that is the shifting paradigm will lead to a lot of wealth creation and all of new Opportunities and probably the pie itself becomes bigger, but a lot of people, you know regardless of a percentage in the population if they lose their jobs and then they cannot sustain You know living or they are in the original living standard. This will be a lot of problems however, I do think that you know there are ways to to address this and again this comes back to the The idea of globalization and also since I come from China I can probably adding a bit of China China element Is that I you know first? I think a lot of the jobs today about making things still need to be made by human beings So that's probably won't change in the next 20 years and and In the second thing is that China has become a pretty expensive country to make things and the third is your notice China you know in the past has been buying a lot of raw materials natural resources and it's time For China to think about where to put his money and its capital probably is a great idea to deploy The capital here and create jobs here and also look at Like America as a local market and really a place to make and to sell if you look at actually what happened to examples such as you know BMW or Toyota they really go into the US and make their cars Designed and make and sell in the US and that sort of became a pretty in a benign cycle. So May I just add on something on that? I think that there is another reason for a great deal of skepticism and and and Rejection to the status quo in in South America in particular because it also comes at a time Just this year in which you have had an onslaught of systemic corrosive Corruption from infrastructure companies in the country which is theirs to all of us in South America a global leader when it's distinguished Relationship with all of us which it has to reconstruct that relationship at the official level and it's impossible to reconstruct because of the nature of that corrosive Impact that it has had in at least 12 countries of the region whether we like it or not Opinion people feel read and follow these issues and that does not abode well for a acceptance of the global order as it was before but I think I mean we have as political leaders as business leaders as the Elites in many countries. I think we have a responsibility not just to Reinforce the fear and tell people what they will not be able to do But we need to find solutions and I think there are many solutions. So taking up food security If we can really through also new technology better supply chains, you know Ensure that not a third of the food that is being produced is rotting or wasted, you know, we can Feed a lot more people Sustainability we haven't mentioned that it's a big issue. We need to protect our environment We can be much more energy and resource efficient also with new technology We can also, you know, really help people in schooling education a lot more Children around the world could get better education also through new technology health care You know sharing this even in the most remotest areas and so forth And I think that will also create jobs We will move from more manufacturing to more service jobs And I think that is what we have to to demonstrate that we have to bring to the people rather than Continue sorry for being so a bit pushy on this talking too much about fear. Yes There are fears their emotions, but you know, I like the book from Steve Jobs only the paranoid survive I'm also a bit paranoid paranoid is not bad because it makes it brings the best out of you But I think you know fear that means makes people destroy what they're having or you know, it's stagnate or or Withdrawal I think is bad. So we need to be open up and we need to demonstrate and show what is possible clearly Practical solutions will be required But before we get there Here's a question that this region has to confront every country in this region needs to confront perhaps every company in this region needs to confront because It's not strictly a matter of foreign policy in some cases. It's a matter of corporate policy should Latin America and Its constituent member states and companies Pivot away from the United States at this time and if so To what do you pivot inward do strengthen? Regional ties do you pivot toward China? And if so, how do you redefine your relationship with China beyond raw materials and commodities? Or do you pivot across the Atlantic to Europe? Maybe if I make I could say all of the valve. Yes, I mean It's just clear that when the tectonic plaques move you have Two possibilities. You are a squeeze between them on or new opportunities open up So we need to be fast on our feet to make sure we are not a squeeze We jump away from that squeeze, but we really see the opportunities and those opportunities are Coming multiple forms. First of all Let's talk Latin America itself the direct investment in Latin America within the region is at a Low level that is only an opportunity the trade within the region is at such a level that it's only an opportunity the fact that a Mexico has to deal with these Tensions with his northern neighbor brings opportunity to have Mexico closer looking into the south and for us to work within the region That is for the region itself Do we have to walk away from the US now talking about Argentina our trade with the US is at a level that is It also has only eventual opportunities It's clear where to go but up It's clear that Europe has been looking into other places and now realizes that not only from a Policy political perspective is good to relate to to to Latin America But it gives them back certain level of leadership to do so China is a reality We cannot not deal with China is true that we have to sit with China and talk in terms of What are our needs our strength our capacities and we have to work into a model That is convenient for China, but it's also convenient for the region. Let's not forget Africa Africa is an opportunity for the region a great opportunity Which I think in general terms the region has totally underestimated Except for Brazil which did something during the period that Lula was president Essentially we have underestimated and going beyond that the whole of Asia is an opportunity So the question here is not which one we choose we need to look into all of them The biggest question is do we bet on a system that is rules-based and is really embraces all of us or not And that is something that my belief is the region is totally convinced that this rules-based System where we are all part of it is essential May I just compliment what I agree exactly with what? Foreign Minister my quarter has this said but just to give you a practical example We we had we were the venue for the apex meeting in November of 21 leaders, including Chinese leader Putin Japan etc and we invited The scene like art from the IMF to give her her own view of the situation It was extremely successful in the case of Latin America Not just Peru because we were the venue But I think that most of the middle-income emerging countries of Latin America not just South America have a situation Which is almost privileged in the sense that we have a trade agreements with the United States Which by the way Trump is happy to continue on trade agreements with China trade agreements with with the European Union plus Another two dozen and in the case of Peru. I think Chile has something like 80 That's not likely to to Reverse on the country is it's likely to be complimented That's on the one hand on the other hand. We have probably the most effective most rapid-growing most monitored integration scheme in in Latin America in the Pacific Alliance or the Anzal Pacífico as we call it call it which Which involves Chile, Peru, Colombia and Mexico. We've had series of meetings And in fact we had a teleconference among the four heads of state of those countries just two weeks ago And we will meet in Cali at the level of heads of state in June This is a process which not only has stimulated the growth of trade services and and and the complementary Stock exchange of those four countries, but now has added on free flow of finance so you have a platform of essentially one Large-scale economic along the coast of the Pacific clearly that's important not just to our Asian partners But it's important to Europe tomorrow and Friday. We have a me. Sorry Friday We have a meeting with the Mercosur to see what kind of links we can establish between the Pacific Alliance and Mercosur in order to enhance this movement So clearly there's a commitment to the world which is not only not being damaged is as you have said being stimulated to go forward Yeah, but I would ask myself. Do you really need President Trump? For a Latin America to rethink How it's working together the sense has been from the outside with all due respect And also due respect to the recent activities. I think that the Latin American companies countries have been quite closed Yes, you are happy to export commodities and And also minerals and oil and gas, but I think in terms of really letting Competition in come in whether it's from neighboring countries or from the rest of the world I think you see Latin America being still quite closed and following an import substitution Policy for decades, so I'm making a black-and-white Not the case of the four countries I've mentioned zero tariffs zero It's here, but I think you know that is I think the the ultimate challenge for for let America to say let's open up Let's also increase the cooperation within Latin America because neighbors I mean in Europe most of the trade happens within Europe in in Southeast Asia in East Asia Most of the trade happens between those countries, but that's that's why I started by talking about within Region both in terms of great and direct investment and you don't need Trump as an excuse, but I think that's the opportunity that opens up Once you realize that your options Has are being curtailed by certain decisions beyond your ability to influence then you reset the tone Ricardo just referred to our meeting tomorrow between Mercosur and Pacific Alliance. I don't think this would have happened Even a year ago But why not? Well, it hasn't happened And that's that that's a reality now it is happening and there isn't a strong commitment By Mercosur by the four members Had that had discussed this there is a strong commitment from the Pacific Alliance There was it an ideological divide that said Mercosur is in one direction and Pacific Alliance is in another one part of that was a certain level of self-protection Now we all realize that This is not a zero-sum game Exactly and not being a zero-sum game and building on our strength and here is I want to emphasize this is not Being liberal in the terms that you open up and let everything flow without any control you have agreements that are Win-win that have that bill on your strength that bill on your neutral interest And that allows for the pie to grow and when the pie grows definitely cannot be a zero-sum game May I just add to that that it's not Trump as a pretext I would like to mention that when we did meet president Kuchinsky did meet with this hour-long meeting in December There was clear interest and now commitment on the part of the Trump administration Not only to participate in the summit of the of the Americas which take place About ten months from now in Lima, but to organize a previous summit in the United States of CEOs from different enterprises Different size levels of Latin America in the United States So clearly he's not backing away that administration not backing away. He's on the contrary committed to to to engaging I think it's a question of the short term and the long term so that we have to be prepared to go over this slightly difficult hump, which I mentioned is still Extremely difficult, but in particular because of Brexit and in particular because the United States needs to get its government organized It's not only the case of Trump previous administrations The United States usually take from six to nine months to get organized this one will take two years Hopefully less, but that's the case. Thank you. It seems to me that the panel has a consensus that opened up and You know Trade and competition all these are beneficial. I think these are great things I mean I have two comments one is drawing from China's own experience and China, you know 25 years ago the economy was a small and quite backwards and what China did was really open up to everyone and I can imagine Europeans Americans and also other countries are came to invest in China and in those days actually foreigners in China Enjoyed a preferential policy such as tax and other matters than local companies But the result there was that not only foreign companies did well, but also it created a lot of local companies So I think so this area I think we do have a consensus that is opening and Participation is good, but what what what I like to comment on is Specifically is how you know was a big picture ideas are great But how do you land this on the ground that is how we really can translate the ideas into an actual actions The actual benefit to the level of let's say a company Municipality and also the the creation of jobs and taxes, you know on the ground So so I think that's probably a practical You know a matter to think about so what yes, I agree We're gonna open it up to the floor for questions in just a moment But what should be on that action plan if you're drawing up an action plan for Latin America to deal with the new reality What's on there? I Think they're you know investing in people. I think we all agree education health is important investing in infrastructure physical, but also digital infrastructure Investing in financial markets and investing in strengthening institutions You mentioned it earlier Ricardo on on corruption making sure that we have strong transparent institutions that Follow the rule of law for ever allow the rule for law Rule of law for everybody to follow. I think these are key elements And these are not new but we have to really deliver be very persistent Rather than making you know big action plans and then very little is happening That's why I think really step-by-step country by country Making this work is key in at the same time. I would say opening up more cooperation is helpful and You know we quite really emphasize that there was some divide in Latin America between Mac was who on the one hand sorry for saying that and and the the Pacific countries on the other hand in terms of How they open up their economies? I think I think that the the name of the game is on one side integration There is a need for infrastructure integration You know unassure was created with integration as a theme and which is totally forgot about it So we need to go back to basics. In fact, we are going to be a a presiding over Mercosur starting over unassure starting in in April and that's the emphasis We are going to be discussing with all member states go back to the drawing board and talk about the integration of of the Electric grids about telecommunication integration digital integration a power in general I mean logistics we you know flying within the region is a nightmare You you need to our hub is in Panama or or in or in Miami or in someplace in in in in Brazil. It's just plain horrible So the integration is a key element to make us competitive as a whole and in in building the integration You need to invest on infrastructure, which is in itself short term a source of Jobs which is also good of course Investing on education is another element of key element on on this and we need to work on that and good governance No question and by the way, she has to pass a little message. We are working now on WTO we are going to host the WTO ministerial at the end of the year That's a big theme for us as Argentina But also for the region and we are going to preside over G20 next year and jobs is going to be at the center of our Agenda as much as what is the gap in education that is required in order to fill the needs of of jobs Let's open it up to let me just mention you want to add something add to that just basically I think when a suit was born As you mentioned not only as a forum for for pushing forward The connect the connectivity of South America and and and the avoiding the isolation of the hinterland But it was also a forum based on Democratic representation economic and and that those two were the basic tenants It was hijacked in the meantime. Hopefully in April. We'll be back to the withdrawing board back to basic All right Let's give members of the audience an opportunity to ask some questions Please raise your hand. We have people with microphones. If you would do the panelists the favor, please identify yourselves before asking the question There was one actually back that yes that lady in the black. Yes, she's waving her hand your first Hi, my name is Andrea Sanjila my global shaper from the San Jose hub in Costa Rica My question was related to we're talking about globalization, but we're narrowing it down basically to trade How can we think about globalization in a more human way where globalization is in is affecting issues such as climate change as migration Lots of jobs, etc. So thinking about migration we're making it easier for trade for services and goods to move around the world very easily but not people so how can we think about Connecting each other it's easier to feel closer to the ones that are far away right now with globalization But once people we don't know are close. We don't like them So how can countries approach this challenge that I think is very linked to globalization To find a more human side of this concept Well, it's clear that when you talk about the free flow that globalization brings Is is is the free flow of financing the free for flow of good and services and it's the free flow of people That is at the heart of the problem in the European Union at this very moment That's that's one of the reasons why The Brexit took to place and part of that is not the free flow of Europeans Is the free flow of people trying to come into Europe which is goes to the migrants question from our perspective We are Deep believers of migration. I mean we are a country of migrants. I I learned something today It was information that I sort of knew but I got the number 70% of the Latin Americans that migrate migrate to Argentina So we are still today a very strong Migrant country is it's just a matter of how do you? reconcile with the notion that Expanding your base is good news for everybody and how do you reconcile and that's I think the point in In the case of Europe on on how to Support and finance that reality which is it's a big challenge, but you're right You can not only talk about the economic aspects or the hard aspects of globalization if you don't add the third pillar which is the people's aspect and And that is one of the central issues that we have to deal with as we seek solutions Towards the future because if we do not solve the problems of the people's in their place They are going for sure going to migrate and that again takes me back to the question of food and water security Well, I mean just say that Latin America in particular the Andean region is a region with this multi-ethnic in its origin and also Extraordinarily composed of many sources of migration particular Peru which is part of its richness It's probably the essence of its richness and I think that's what makes it so easy for the four countries But in particular the three countries of the four countries of the Pacific Alliance to make the flow of people within from Chile Peru And Colombia all that easy not only in terms of Tourism but in terms of of Business opportunities, etc. I think the problem there is that not only is that we have a slightly More vital Emerging economy in in in this region as opposed to the developed world But it's also a question that we are finally becoming more pragmatic and less rhetorical Whereas the old world is becoming more ideological and obsessive And that's something which is at the heart of populism and which affects migrants and and the whole issue of refugees When there shouldn't be that sort of issue Secretary General Gutierrez is an extraordinary Asset to the world community because he comes from a job which understands the whole refugee crisis And I just hope that we can Provide the commitment that we have to do to a renewal of globalization to a To a renewal of world governance under his ages. Thank you very much Let's move on to the next question. There are quite a number of hands in the room gentlemen here in the front front row Thank you very much. My name is Daniel so battle. I'm the regional director of international idea I'm glad to hear at the very end that you mentioned g20. There are three main countries in the region Mexico Argentina Brazil Besides the commercial the trade integration. Are you talking in order to integrate? From a foreign policy perspective how to influence globalization because my sense is that you are trying to adapt to globalization globalization How how much committed are these three countries now working together in order to influence? Globalization and not only that how to influence more in the UN for instance having much better coordination at the UN security council in the World Bank At the IMF and so forth. What is the plan there? Well, the country that you mentioned are three largest countries, but they don't have necessarily the same general Specific global policies the countries that I mentioned that have specific economic and global policies is the Pacific Alliance countries Which are Chile? Peru Colombia and Mexico So there you have a little bit more of like-mindedness in terms of economic issues in terms of global issues climate change refugees Security etc. We are all in Latin America pretty much Like-minded we will Peru will be joining the security council as a non-permanent State in January of next year clearly. We're following with with enormous interest the the crisis Which is also part of the underbelly of globalization. It's not just the refugee crisis. It's the horrendous Massacres are taking place in in Syria for example, etc. So you're dealing with countries which have been always progressive in terms of the liberal order and that's not changed Not at all the degree of commitment and emphasis of course degrees Depends on on the ability and the seriousness of the governments that you're talking about specific governments that you're talking about Well, she has to be on what Ricardo has said that I think the region is essentially a multilateral Region I mean we all adhere to the principles and I think one can argue that the strongest Institutions belong to the region or a yes and the charter Proceed the the United Nations, but let me go specifically to the G20 What we are trying to do here is build a view on the G20 that comes from Latin America And in fact we we did for the first time we had a a forum last year Where last year last week where we had the Sherpas of Mexico, Brazil and Argentina Discussing what could be in Latin American agenda to be brought to G20 We are going to expand that to other countries beyond the the ones that have a presence in the G20 to reflect on What the region needs and can contribute to the G20 in fact what we have said is that we see Argentina as bringing a Beach a vision from the south that builds into the G20 We all know the strength and the weakness of the G20 regarding representation And we believe that there is an opportunity to contribute with the southern Prospective and to build on the things that were put on the table by China in its presidency that now are Farther by by Germany. So that is the duty. We feel we have as As the chair of the G20 next year And other questions hands, please Lady in the front row here in the red Hello, Naomi Hernandez, I'm a global shaper from the Sun Salvador hub. I really like the idea that was brought up in the panel about Not at this junctive view of getting away from the US Or leaning to China or leaning to Asia or either one of those But all of them together in a strategically thinking about how we can build a strategy of doing all of them How do you think that as from the civil society can influence? the view of our country and of our representatives to to do exactly that first of all in In the 21st century one cannot think about building policy only from a government perspective If one takes that road that is for sure Dead end so what we have to do is socialize these concepts and test them against the views of civil society of of of unions of Of the a private sector business community because all of us together Can only build whatever we see as a solution So again going back to the to the G20 idea What we are planning to do is really to to Socialize these questions and bring opportunities to all the groups and civil society represented in different ways From a women's perspective You know in order to make sure that we mainstream the agenda in a manner that people feel Associated with with the notion that in the end us as government have it an overarching responsibility But that is the way to go Hands and others someone here in the gray suit Elia Selman from American Elia Selman That I perform in very different One that been performing very well That belong to Alianza del Pacífico meaning Mexico, Colombia, Peru and Chile And the other one is been the country from the Mercosur that are really not performing well And their economy is still very close We have seen some changes in the last two years for example Mr. Macri who? Mrs. Marcura represent They're turning the old policies to looking for more opening of the economy more Private sector Performance or more friendly to the old to the private sector and then You this is something that is missing in your in you in this panel is Brazil. I Think Brazil is a question mark. I Don't I mean if Brazil is a question mark that would like to ask Mrs. Marcura, are you willing as Argentina? to Look to join the alliance of the Pacifico in the case Brazil as a question mark Remain in the same kind of old policy to be more close Well, first of all and it is clear that Brazil has gone through a challenging political process Within the established institutions of the Constitution. I want to fight like that because it was a challenge But they did pursue this within the constitutional arrangements now we have a situation in Brazil where the government is clearly with the view of a Opening up and integrating first to Mercosur and I can assure you all the last Visit the president Macri made to Brasilia where a president ever and president market Committed to Mercosur was a solid Work plan of things to be done in the short and medium term that will make a difference and an impact within Mercosur a real Breaking down barriers within Mercosur, which is the first duty we have but from there We also committed to a projection of Mercosur to all of the above as I said before In a very very strong manner and we discussed there the notion of a the Mercosur Pacific Alliance a Closeness and I was tasked as press as a chair of of Mercosur as the presidency of Mercosur to To produce a meeting as soon as possible, which we are doing tomorrow And I I can I can I'm sure this meeting will not be one where we are going to only talk There will be deliverables coming out of that that meeting. So what I'm saying here is Yes, it's true that each one of us has challenges internal challenges has things to overcome Including our neighbor Brazil which we rely and depends so much on but the sense We have is there is an understanding that the old way of being anchored and being closed Being based on internal market on on import replacement Import substitution hasn't has gotten us to where we are it won't get us to where we should be and that is commitment. I Hate to slightly rain on Susana's parade And I'm sure that we will come up with something out of the meeting tomorrow But I really want to be frank when I mentioned a corrosive Corruption scandal at the heart of South America. I was talking about Brazil that is going Brazil is in intensive care not only for its own political institutions, but because in mixture of some political parties who were in government and Major transnational companies have produced the breakdown of confidence between the government elites the people and the business Elites in 12 countries of South America that cannot be waived away with a handkerchief or a handshake But I think it's also I mean looking from the outside. It's also a great opportunity to clean up so I think the crisis was really needed and Given that the scandal is has such proportions I think it makes it painfully obvious for everybody that this has to happen this cleanup has to happen and I think I'm quite confident. I think again looking from the outside. You probably know things much better That it will happen and I think that's why in many ways again a crisis that really is an opportunity for Latin America Before I conclude James an opportunity for you to have the last word Actually, I pass this because this is quite An excellent conversation Panelists, thank you very much. I'm going to summarize. Yes, please. Let's give them a hand for sure. I Agree with James. There was some consensus among the group about What constitutes the new reality and whether it is? Something to fear. I like the way that we Framed the presidency of Donald Trump opportunity or excuse I like that one and Also, there's clearly an agreement that this doesn't have to be a zero-sum game there are opportunities as Latin America redefines its relationship internally and with the rest of the world for win-win agreements and the What we got to it seems to me that what we got to at the end With some of the well be this you know We could spend a lot longer on the action plan, right? What clearly investment is required whether it's in education whether digital infrastructure financial markets institutions more cooperation and openness integration of infrastructure, I think we all agree it is pretty tough to fly around this region But also in telecom and power in logistics excellent and the the need for good governance Ever-present not just here, but everywhere around the world some excellent questions from the audience ladies and gentlemen I thank you and please join me in thanking our panelists Susanna Malcora the foreign minister here in Argentina Ricardo Luna the foreign minister of Peru Hans Paul Burkner the chairman of Boston Consulting and James M CEO EJ McKay. Thank you