 Okay, that's it. We're recording. Let's go ahead and do this. And I guess I start with sharing my screen right over here. Cool. Let me make this a little bigger. So welcome everyone and it's call number 002 Pricing WordPress Services. This is a topic that I'm super excited about. And just to give you a reason why I'm really excited about this topic is I remember my first paying job. Like I was in co-academy. I was trying to learn HTML, CSS, and all this stuff. And after like six months of grinding it out in co-academy, I got my first job with a client. And I built, it was like over 24 pages of just custom HTML, CSS, and JavaScript on bootstrap. I didn't even know what WordPress was then. And I did it for like $240. And that was my very first job. And you know, that's not that much money for a custom made website in two months worth of work. So since this whole journey of like starting, you know, it's been constantly going up, going up, going up. Real quick, before we like go ahead and start this off, you know, I wanted to like, I know these calls are new. And I kind of just wanted to like, introduce these calls also, because I feel like, you know, like I've been in some calls like this, and I've been in some other calls, and just want to kind of give context and like, let everyone know what to expect in these calls. Now these calls, I'm looking at a more of like a meetup style. See, I do meetups around the area for like WordPress and for other, you know, like events and groups. I do it because I enjoy it. You know, I like working with other people with the same passion and doing the same things that I do. And I like sometimes facilitating these groups as well. And so I kind of look at these video calls as sort of like a meetup more of like, than like a webinar, you know, like, I just really want to like get that out there. Like this isn't like some marketing or promotional thing. This, you know, the reason why I created this group and I put this group together is, you know, I started doing groups like this about a year ago and it has changed everything for the way that I've been doing my business. It has been such a huge help because when I started learning how to build websites, like I started learning how to build websites. I started learning how to do CSS, how to do WordPress. The last thing that I learned how to do was the business side. How do you deal with clients? You know, how do you get paid right for the work that you do? How do you move up your prices? You know, these were the very last things that I learned and I really feel like if I were to learn them in the beginning, like I could have saved myself so much headache, a lot of stress and a lot of costly mistakes. And I'm really hoping like this group can do that for other people. Like I hope it could just help out, you know, so that way we could put the focus on learning the business side, providing websites as a service. And I hope that others could also, you know, prevent making all those costly mistakes. And, you know, another thing too is I'm still learning and I find doing stuff like this, you know, like I'm actually learning from it as well. So it's like I want to share what I've learned. I want to share what's working for me, but I'm also learning at the same time and it's a huge help for me and my growth. And so with these calls, what I'm looking to do is, you know, I'm really hoping that these are like, like they're like, like a meetup style, you know, like where others are involved in it. You know, I really want other people to get active in it, to answer questions, to spark the conversations. And also, I'm really hoping that others will step up and start running their own meetings as well. You know, I don't want to do every single one of these calls. I want to go ahead and like open this up because, you know, I really feel like this community could teach each other. And that's the whole point of it. So, you know, if you're just seeing this video, you're wondering what they're all about, you know, that's it right there. That's what we're hoping to get out of it. And I'm open to all suggestions. You know, anybody in the group could DM me. I'm going to talk to you. I'm going to respond to you because I really want this to work. So feel free to contact me anytime on it. All right. So does anybody have any questions or anything before we start getting into the slide? I think. All right. Cool. Well, that was my spiel. Let's go ahead and move on to while we're here. And that's, let me see. I'll just go ahead and start sharing the slide. All right. And it's going to be our second call, price and WordPress services. So, you know, like I said in the beginning, this was probably one of the last things I learned. I had no idea when I came into this, how do you charge somebody for a website? Like what basis do I go off of? Do I go off of how much time it's going to take? You know, and the thing is like, especially when I'm new or even today, sometimes I get projects, clients are requesting things and I really can't tell how long it's going to take. So how to figure out a price and how to go ahead and charge for my services. So part one, we're just going to talk about charging clients. Now, there's two most common ways of charging clients. One of them is going to be charging by the hour and the other one is going to be charging by the project. Now, I'm not going to say one is better than the other. I'm not going to say one is right, one is wrong, because I really feel like either one can work. And I think like, with our different styles of being web designers and developers, some work better hourly and some work better, you know, charging by the project, you know, like I really just strongly advise. And one thing is figure out what works best for you. From my experience, I still do both, you know, right now. I do both of them at the same time. And it all depends, you know, I went back and forth and I tried out a lot of different things and I figured out what works best for me. So let's go ahead and start with charging by the hour. And now the pros for charging by the hour. So the first one is, it's good if your project demands perfection, close attention to detail. So, you know, if you got a project and you know, like, you can't really tell the scope of it, you know, it's going to that's going to be ongoing, you know, that it's going to take a lot of attention to detail, you know, charging by the hour might save you from, you know, giving a quote, and then the job being way bigger than what it was. You know, one of one of my mistakes that I've fallen into was, I think a job will take two weeks, but then it ends up taking two months. And so, you know, if I really look at the time I spent, you know, like, if I combine the hours and divide that into the money I made on it, you know, it's only like a few dollars an hour right there. So if you see that maybe a job is going to just have a lot of detail to it, there's so many different elements to it, then maybe breaking it down or charging it by the hour could help you and save you from, you know, from losing out and spending too much time. Now, the second one is if the client wants to be hands on and make several revisions. This happens. I've had a client come in and just tell me like, Hey, I just want you to know I want to be in the process the whole way. Now, it's up to you if you want to work with the client like that. I've done it before I remember the first time I worked with a client like that. It wasn't like he was bad. He really just wanted to know what it was like. He just like, he just wanted to be involved with the whole thing. And I gave him a price and that job went off forever. It did not stop because he was in it the whole time. You know, and I know if I were to charge by the hour on that, you know, the client would have been more respectful of my time. So the third one, it's also good to avoid negotiations with prices. There's a set price on it. You know, like, whatever your hourly rate is, that's your hourly rate. There's no like going back and forth trying to find out, you know, like trying to reduce the scope or trying to fit it into the budget. That's just the cost. So it makes it a little bit easier when dealing with money. If it's hard for you to talk about money with a client, you know, this can simplify it. Excuse me. All right, any questions right now about charging by the hour for the pros? I'll keep going. So the cons. Now, the number one, this is my biggest con. And the reason I don't like to use it a lot of the times is because if you're a good and fast, at what you do, you get penalized. What that means is if you're being efficient, and if you could do the job, like, in half the time, most others can do it, you're actually losing money on it. And it really doesn't make sense. Because if you're really good, if you, you know, mastered your craft, if you're very competent, you got close attention to detail, you got your processes all in place, which allows you to do the job super fast, you know, you should get paid for that. So with this, you know, that's one of the biggest cons I see with charging hourly is being penalized for being good. The second one is that, you know, the actual work may be more than the estimated work. And this can surprise clients. We just happened to this, this just happened to us recently, where, you know, the client gave us a list of tasks, they look very simple. We thought it would take about, you know, 10 to 15 hours. But now we're in over 40 hours. And that brings the budget up, you know, more than double what the client thought. So, you know, that could surprise a client right there. And then the client number three, they might not understand the difference between high hourly rates, and low hourly rates. Oh, and the overall cost. So you might get a little bit of confusion with clients, you know, they might want to get both and they might not understand it. You know, okay. So first off, I've whipped this up really quick right here, just a little disclaimer. Just kind of got to go back and thought on it. So, you know, a client might go on Fiverr and they might see somebody selling their services for $8 an hour. And then you might tell them $50 an hour. And that that puts you in a position where you got to discuss with the client. And you got to try to sell yourself all of a sudden. Why do you why are you worth more than that other person is charging, you know, quarter of what you're charging. So it puts you in the position right there. So that's one of the other cons. Okay, so now if you are going to go through though, with charging by the hour, and doing hourly prices, definitely need the right time tracking tools. Now I've done this before when I started off. And I did not use these tools because, you know, one, I didn't want to pay for them. To it was just like I was already so busy that it took that little bit extra time and effort to like be consistent with the time tracking tools. But everything was messy. And then I did switch over to using these tools. And it was a complete game changer. Everything becomes organized. It becomes actually more faster and efficient when billing the clients. So there are a couple different options right here. And all this right here, I'll be given the slide out. So, you know, everyone will get this PDF. So you can use them find the links right here. But like one of them would be like toggle. I'm not going to go into all these right here. But I do have to say that this one right here on the paid option to get harvest. That's the one I've been using now for two years. And I absolutely love this program right here, this platform. It makes my job so much easier and my team as well. Like not only do I charge the time and keep track of all the time and invoices with clients, but so does my team. And so that's what charging by the hour now charging by the project. This is a complete different way right here. This one is given one price for one job. Now the pros for this one right here is great if you're fast. If you're fast, you're efficient and you got some experience. This is the way to go right here. Another one is the client has a firm budget. So let's say the client got $4,000 to spend, you know exactly what you can do and what you could work with with the $4,000. You could give them a scope. You could say, Okay, we could do a B and C for you within this budget. And then you could commit to it. And number three, if you want to focus on getting paid for the results instead of the time spent. So you know, one thing about charging by the hour that I find in my own experience is I keep too much time on the clock. And personally, I don't like working looking at the clock. I don't like the time being a factor. You know, that's always like kind of like a little pressure that's right behind me why I'm constantly looking at the time, like, Oh my God, the client only has this amount of money. If I do too much, the client's going to get upset, you know, so I really want to just focus on the end results. I want to see what we could make at the end what we could do how to make this project and this website do good for the client. How can we help the client's business? And by taking the time off the table for me and just taking it out of the equation and just focusing on the results and the value that I could give and how I could help out the client keeps me in the zone. It keeps me focused on just, you know, just the results on delivering. And then the fourth one is you don't want to limit your earning potential. You know, when you do it by the hour, you're stuck at that price. And we're going to go more into that in the next way to charge. But basically, you know, basically, you give yourself an hourly rate. That's your hourly rate. You know, that's it. You're kind of capped off and you're stuck until you raise that hourly rate. All right, so the cons for this right here. So the cons we're doing for the proposals, one of the cons will be if the client shows signs of making many changes. If you see this client might be making changes, you know, doing it could open it up to scope creep. The other one is if the client is not clear of what they want or if they're just testing out different options. If you got a client that, you know, is just talking about like, well, I want to see how this one works. Can we try this one and this one? You know, it's like, you can't really give an overall scope for that right there. We're charging by the hour might do better because it'll make the client respect the time more. And then if you want a full control over the scope of work, whenever you're charging by the project, it's always going to open up to open up for scope creep. And it's going to open up to do a more. And, you know, I'm pretty sure many people here are the same as me. I always do more than what I say I'm going to do. I always do. There's never been a project where I haven't done more than what I said it was going to do just because I knew it needed it. Just because I knew it would help. You know, so if we got a project in full, we said we're going to build this for you. I'm always going to do extra. But, you know, if your style is you just want to be super technical, you just want to just get this one, this one, this one, and you just want to do it by the book, then, you know, you don't have that full control. Now the last one right here, and this is why I want to open up some discussion right here. And it's kind of like what I was talking about, you know, not being limited in in the cons of charging by the project is when you charge by the client. And one of the questions I want to ask you all is should prices be different for larger clients? You know, would you charge the same price for a 15 page website to a client that has a small store, a small little pop and mom and pop and compare that to the same size website for a multi-million dollar company. So if you have two clients right here, you got one, here's your mom and pop right here, you know their budget's small, their budget's tight, you know, they don't have that much to invest in. A website isn't really going to impact their business as much as you got this other company over here that's been around for years through a large chain. They got tons of money, they got CEOs, they got all this, you know, marketing and the website for them will make a huge impact. Now if both the websites are the same, 15 pages each, same exact length of time, you know, should these be the same price? Would the bigger client pay more? And with that I want to open up discussion on that one. So does anybody have any thoughts on that? Lots, but I want other people to talk first. Okay, cool. My throat was getting dry, so I have to take a break anyways. Hi Jeff, how are you all? Sorry, I am a little late to this call, but I made it as quickly as I can. How are you all? Good, man, I'm glad to see you here. Glad to see you as well. Hey Lauren, hope you are doing well. Hello, Christopher. Okay, so I just heard the last line because I was facing some technical issues with my computer, but now it's okay. So I correct me if I'm wrong, but you asked that if you will charge the same amount to a multi-million dollar company, then a small store for the same website, correct? That's a question, yes. Okay, so I would like to put my thoughts in and about this, you know, I was thinking about it. I feel that you should always understand that what is the budget of the customer, you know, because I understand that you are working the same thing and giving the same output, but as we always talk about it's more about the results, the end results, rather than how much time you put into it. If there is a company which is a very small scale startup company and they want a website from me and I feel that this is under my budget and this is something I can deliver in that certain budget which they assigned. So I will go ahead and do it, but at the same time, not out of greed for money, but understanding if person has a different budget for that and they are willing to pay. So then I feel it's a good idea to not, you know, under price yourself because you know that they have potential. Not saying that you, you know, snatch as many dollars as possible, no. Obviously I'm sure there would be a certain limit to it, right? If they say we will pay you two thousand dollars and I know that maybe it's just a six hundred dollars job. So I will not charge straight up all their budget, but I will still go and see what's the best quotable price and obviously it can be more than a small startup. That's what I feel about it, but I would love to load the views of everyone involved here. Yeah. Oh, that's some good points right there. Really good points. Lauren, what you got on that? Now you're on the spot, sorry. That's okay, I'm trying to get my guys to share. Absolutely, you charge more depending on the client because the risk for failure, I would argue, is higher. So if you're making a website for Domino's Pizza versus, you know, a mom and pop pizza shop, the risk of the Domino's Pizza website is significantly more than just the mom and pop one. They could lose a lot more money. And it doesn't really matter what service you're providing because it's the value that you're per-dividing to that customer. Right, because Domino's, they have more chance of losing money, but they also have much more chance of making money. They could make two billion dollars off of your website where that mom and pop could never. So it's more of matching the potential value that you're bringing to them rather than just the hours served is my opinion. Yeah, most definitely. You know, like, I didn't even think about this when I started off. Like, it wasn't even something in my mind, you know? Like, it didn't matter. I looked at always was how big was the website. But it wasn't about what is that website going to do for that business. You know, a smaller business it's not going to bring as much in, but like I said, like Domino's Pizza, you know, we're creating something that's going to make a whole lot of money for them. You know, that's the value right there and then the risk as well. There's a lot more risk involved and there's a lot more that goes into it too. Because even though the website might be 15 pages, if you're going to do a website for a bigger client, you're going to put a lot more into it. You're going to put a lot more strategy, thought, you know, research into it, a lot more meetings, discovery goes deeper, you know, than just the website right there. And the reason why I want to bring this up is exactly because of that. You know, I wanted to spark this thought. I wanted to get this out there and like plant that seed in other people's minds because when it got planted inside my mind, it changed it, you know, so now when I'm opening a call with a client, when a client, a potential client comes to me and we sit down and we go through our first talks and our discovery, I'm trying to figure out how big are they? How big of an impact can I make on them, you know? And you're right, it's not about how much money I could get out of them. It's not a greed factor at all that's inside there. You know, it's a genuine, you know, like genuine part of business and honest part of business as well, you know? And I also had to get away from my old ideals and my old thoughts because, you know, like I felt like I would be dishonest by the same job I did. And that's just because I didn't grow up with a business mind. I think people that went to school for business, you know, have that business we're thinking, you know, they've already rooted out those old, those kind of thoughts right there. Yes, I just want to put a point here, Jeff. I totally feel you what you are saying because as we discussed last time, this is my initial steps of this building business. I have made like four or five websites. So this mind tricks you into thinking that you are being dishonest because, you know, you charge less for the last client, but now why more? You know, why are you greedy for money is the question which your mind tricks you into. But at the same time, I realize that if you have to slowly build your business, it's not about taking all money you can on the table. But obviously how much of an impact, as you said, and as Lauren said, if you are doing something for Domino's, you quote a price as per their brand. What are they as a brand? And if you are quoting a website for someone else, you quote them as per them. So that's I completely agree with you. This is one thing which I planted a seed as well and talks like this with all of you people experienced and not so experienced, but just a share of mindset kind of helps you to grow stronger on these ideas, you know, and then it's not the same problem anymore. So thank you for sharing this with me. I really appreciate it. Cool. Cool. Thank you. Thank you. I love hearing that. You know, I love hearing that because, you know, this is really what I'm hoping right here, you know, like I feel like a lot of a lot of us are good people and that we just want to help, you know, and especially, you know, when we're learning to do something on our own and just want to go out and genuinely help. And I feel like, you know, when you come in from a good place in the heart is good, you know, like you could do so much more for the client, but then I could also do harm to myself. If that makes any sense, like I could penalize myself because I just want to do good. And, you know, I kind of, let me see how to word it right, you know, like I put the client's business ahead of mine. And that was one of my biggest problems starting off. And that's why I always undercharge my service is because I cared about their business so much. And I wanted them. I wanted to really give them I wanted to hook them up. I wanted them to be so happy. I wanted them to have, you know, the best I could possibly give them. And I did it at a cost to myself. And I really like hope, like these kind of discussions to show we could still give the best of the clients, but also, you know, what's best for the mutual relationship. I also found that when we're doing this, let me see, I'm sorry, I'm trying to like open, like search for the right words. I found that once I started to think a bit differently and started to look at things and like ask these questions and like really look at like, say like asking the client like the size of the budget, how, you know, we started having more professional business conversations. And when we started having more all your audios off. Sorry, I'm looking at videos. I'm still trying to get used to this whole zoom thing and talking a while. I got pictures in front of me. Yeah, sorry, man. It's all right. It's all right. It was a little disturbance for you, but my wifi wasn't working. So I was setting something in the background, but thank you. It's all good. Look, it's been a long week for me. Many hours coming in. So I might, I might sidetrack from here. There, you know, so all right. Cool. Anyways, let's go ahead and move on. Now that was the first part and we're going over. Let me go ahead and open up my screen share. You know, just the basics and what we're doing in this call is we're kind of just touching on the basics. You know, everything we're discussing in here right now, I feel we could take a deep dive into later on. You know, because there's a lot of different parts and steps about how to price your service and how to charge a client. So, you know, the first one we went through was, you know, how we could charge either go by hourly or price them by the project, giving it a full cost for the scope of work. Now let's talk about what we do with the job and how we move forward with them and best practices. So the next part, we're going to go into making contracts. Now we're not going to go too deep into this because I really feel like we can have a call strictly on making contracts because contracts are just so important. And this is something that is easy to get stuck in. And also overlook. And I'll have to confess with everybody right now. I could tell you, in my first year, I didn't do any contracts. I was just so happy to get the work and also had this weird thing inside me that I felt like if I were to present a big contract to a client, I might scare them away. And I was so scared of scaring clients away and had that fear that I didn't even write a contract. And, you know, definitely got to get over the fear because that's wrong, you know, because true thing is, and I guess what I was trying to say where I fell off, you know, just before was, it was that old way of thinking that I had where I was so busy trying to please a client and not lose them and have that fear of losing the client that when I started changing my thinking and making, you know, being more professional, that clients actually appreciated that a lot more. Providing contracts to clients that are detailed, that are full, that aren't just one little page. Like our contracts are about four pages long for each project and it doesn't matter the size of the project. It's full of our contracts and I find that clients are more appreciative of that. And we even discuss the contracts when we go through it. You know, they know that they're working with somebody that's professional when we do that. And I think it gives them more of a sense of, of, you know, security, working with somebody that does that. So, you know, first off in the contracts, we're going to go over and when a client should sign a contract. What to include in the contract, non-disclosure agreements and what to do if a client breaks a contract. Whenever you're making a contract you have to have a few things inside there for sure on all contracts. You know, one of them is it should always be signed before the work begins. You know, it should never start a job until that contract is signed. Some clients are hesitant to sign it. Some clients will pay you, they'll pay the deposit and I get that when they go ahead and pay the deposit but then they don't sign the contract or they just get busy and it takes forever to get the contract signed. And the reason why I make sure we get contract signed before the project is we need to have an understanding. You know, the client needs to understand exactly what they're going to get out of this project. You know, they need to understand we need a set of expectations. They need to know the scope. We need to discuss it. So what I do is when a client starts to just, just to, you know, like avoid signing the contract, I set up a call with them. I told them we could start your project but let's first discuss this contract. See, you know, if you have any questions, do we need to amend anything? Does anything needs to be added in there? Let's have a quick call review it and go over it. And after that, usually they always just sign it right after and they also appreciate it. I get good feedback every single time after I do that and they'll say, wow, I didn't even think about that. You know, I'm really glad we went over that. Now we know what's going to happen with our project. Next one is making sure the client understands and agrees, especially the scope of work, timeline, payment process and the responsibilities. You know, that's another, like, I like to have a discussion with the clients. I don't just send them a contract and say, here signed this will begin. We need to know that you read it, you understand it. Are there questions, especially the scope of work? You know, that SOW is so important. You know, like, if they need to add more work to it, this is the time. Because later on, when, you know, clients start to ask for more or they start to deviate from what we agreed on, you know, this is where we bring it back to. And if you have that conversation, you know, you are upfront, it's clear, you have the call, you have the conversation, you review it together. You know, it makes it so much easier when you have to go back to the contract and to the agreement, you know, where if you don't have this, well, I really should have brought some water with me. I wasn't expecting my throat to get so dry, but I have to excuse me real quick. When you just have a client sign it, and this is just coming from my experience. When I have a client to sign the contract and just send it to them, they sign it and we don't discuss it, you know, there's nothing. There's no talk about it. And they start to deviate from the agreement, throwing the contract back in the face they don't understand. And they all, they will come back to me and be like, oh, I didn't know about that before the job. I wish I would have known. So I find to avoid that pitfall right there is to have that conversation, have that call with it. Trust me, they are going to appreciate that call right there. And it's also going to position yourself in a more professional way right there. Don't be worried. Like I was about, you know, the client being bothered, the client wanting to, you know, change their mind. I don't worry about that right there. The end results are always positive for this. And then the last one would be non-disclosures. They should also be signed at the beginning. Now, in case if you're doing work with other people as well, like we hire designers, we hire developers, we have other people work with us. We have other people that do like SEO, you know, we collaborate with other people. We do non-disclosures with them. So we always have non-disclosures with everyone that we work with. And it's pretty easy doing non-disclosures because you just get a template. You have one template and then it's easy to go. So if you're going to like work on a project that you want somebody else to help you, definitely get non-disclosures. You got to protect the client. You got to protect yourself. Always protect your client. So what you want to make sure to include inside every contract is the SOW, the scope of work. The way that I've done it is I break it down step by step. I'm very clear. I don't just say we're going to make a website that's five pages. I say exactly what those pages are going to be. What's going to be included in those pages. You know, is there a blog, is there anything else? Payment details. So I break down the payments as well. You want to be able to have exactly when the first payment is, if you got multiple payments, and then a final payment date. You see, one of the things about making these long, these videos, I can't take a break. I can't believe we're videotaping this too. Excuse me, I'm sorry about that. So I make sure there's always a final payment date, and I make that clear. The final payment is due by this date. This prevents it from clients that just want to take off. As anybody had a job, where the job was supposed to take one month, and now it's six months, because a client stopped giving works or, you know, didn't get that copy. They disappeared. They got busy, and now you're stuck, and where's your payment at? And that's frustrating. That's very difficult to deal with. Putting a final date on there, and making that date clear, and even discussing it with them, could go ahead and solve that. A timeline. So we want to be able to give a timeline exactly what we're going to do. So say we're going to, our research process. You know, week one, we're going to do research. We're going to do, you know, setup. Week two, we're going to do design. Week three, we're going to do development. Week four, development. Week five, testing. We give an exact timeline on everything. Another thing, too, we do on the timeline is not just our timeline, but the client's timeline. You know, they need to have a timeline as well. When are they going to give feedback? When are we going to get copy and images? One of the things we have in our contract is a client has 10 days to give us feedback. If they don't give us feedback within 10 days, the job is done, it's canceled out, final payments are due, and we have to start all over when they're ready. We, you know, like, the reason of this is, and I'm sure a lot of, like, a lot, I'm sure a lot of you have multiple jobs going on at once. You know, you might have two jobs going on, then you got this one job going on. You're trying to balance all these clients together. These two clients and these two projects are going well, they're on schedule. This one should be finished so you can start a new job, but now this client disappears or they don't want to give a copy. They keep, you know, they take forever to respond. So now you got a new job that starts off and then this client jumps back in and now you work in double time, you work in weekends. The new job you got is starting to suffer because the old job is now coming back in and taking place and you just want to get it finished. But it just keeps, you know, like it just fell off track and now it messes up everything. It disrupts the flow. So that's why it's really important to make sure there's a clear timeline for you and your client and what happens if that timeline is broken. Make sure you have, you know, defined deliverables of the client's responsibilities, a portfolio clause. I learned to add this into all of ours as well. We haven't started contracts that we are allowed to show this project in our portfolio. I don't ask a client beforehand, you know, I don't build a job and say, hey, it was great working with you. Can we throw this in our portfolio? It's part of the deal, you know, part of the deal is we get to add this in our portfolio. And if the client for some reason decides they do not want us showing this in our portfolio, that's fine, but our price will probably go up right there. You know, the reason is I put a lot of work into all of our projects. A portfolio is very important for a web designer and developer. It's part of how we grow our businesses. So by them not wanting to show the portfolio, it makes it harder for us to take it to the next step and to grow my business. Next one's intellectual property. This one I make really clear. When we start the work, we own everything. We own the work that we've done. We own it all until that final payment comes through. You know, so, you know, sometimes a job goes sideways. Sometimes, you know, it just happens where it doesn't work out. And you want to make it clear that, you know, your work is your work until it's paid for it. If there's a final payment out there, you know, that website that I just built is not yours. You might have paid me, you know, $3,000 for it, but there's still a $1,000 owe. And until that final payment comes through, you know, you don't own it yet. You own it only after you've fully paid it. It's kind of like a car. If you buy a car and you're paying monthly payments on it, you don't own it until that final payment comes in. You don't pay that final payment, you know, like the dealership's going to come back and take back their property. And we need to protect ourselves as well from that. And then the last one's going to be the cancellation and refund policy. And basically, there's no refunds, you know, that's it, you know. I mean, you know, you could play that one by ear, but make sure to add it in there. It happens. Clients will cancel, you know, so just make sure to add that in there. And I put that in there because it happened to us once and we did not have that inside our contract. If we had that in the contract, it would have made things so much easier with dealing with that situation. So what to do, you know, what happens if a client breaks a contract? Usually when contracts are broken, the first one, which is the most common is scope creep. And I think everybody deals with this. Actually, my first two years, I don't remember getting one job that did not have scope creep. You know, every single job, I think especially as a new developer, new designer, as you're learning how to manage clients and manage projects, you're going to get scope creep. It's going to happen. And that's when the client comes in with the constant changes, you know. That's when you get a job to build five pages, a five-page website, and now it's a 12-page website because the client keeps wanting changes. Another one is going to be a delay in the content and images. That's very common right there. And then also the lack of communication. When, you know, you finish the site or you finish, you know, ABC, you send it to the client for review and then you're not getting that review coming back. And then the last one, you know, when the client just outright disappears when they don't show up. So, you know, what to do when a client breaks a contract and you know, I wish I had a simple answer for this. It's not that easy though, you know, because I know from my experience, all of our clients are remote. So it's not like I could just go to court and sue them and we never wanted to get to that point. You know, what I've done when the client starts to break the contract, I always bring the contract back to them. I always try to bring the agreement back to them and try to work it out with them. And luckily it's never come to the point where, you know, when we had to go to court and we had to hire legal help on it, it's come close just once. But, you know, luckily it hasn't come to this. You know, I think when you get the bigger projects, maybe that's when you might need legal help. I've never had that problem. But, all right, I'm kind of trailed and off right there. I'm sorry about that. Because the answer is I really don't know what to do if a client breaks a contract. You know, that's the truth. If a client breaks a contract and wants to run away, wants to disappear and not pay the final payment, you know, I mean, you only left with two options really, you know, like either take the loss or try to take legal action. My experience dealing with this and trying to, you know, dealing with these four issues right here, I've learned to get better in discovery with a client. I learned to get better in my communication with a client. That's my experience. So, you know, I think if I have any answer to like what to do if a client breaks a contract, what worked for me is learning how to communicate better with a client. Because usually when a problem happens down the line, it's because I didn't communicate clearly with the client. We didn't go big enough into the discovery session in the beginning. Or we never should have hired that client in the first place because they had the red flags and they showed that they were not right for us. So that's the only answer I got. I would love to hear others' experiences. I'm sure many people have experiences on what they've done with the client when they did not come through and when the contract was broken. Real quick, let's wrap up the contracts. I got some links right here, some resources on where to get contracts. We use electronic signatures. It makes it super easy. Only thing I could think of is make it as easy as possible. Find an easy way that works for you to get a client to sign it. And I'll go ahead and add this too to a PDF and share with everyone. So let's go ahead and take a break right now and go into Q&A. I can ask the first question, though you should get a drink first. Geez, I don't know, it's like... You're dying over it. You're like, pause it, you know? I can't stop it, pause. It is what it is. All right. We have our own system for a billing timeline. I'm curious on what you or other people here do for billing terms. 50, 50, 100% upfront. We do 50, 25, 25. What do you do, Jeff? Oh, go ahead, Rajaf. No, no, you go ahead and if you're saying something I can speak after you, man. Well, we do... It depends on the size of the project. If it's under $3,000, we do 50, 50. If it's over 3,000, then we start to break down into milestones. But we're gonna be changing and revising that because I recently just hired a business coach and I was told that I have to stop that. I was told to stop the 50, 50 and start breaking down into milestones. So we're never left hanging on to so much money, even if it's a smaller project. That sounds like a good idea, man. So as of now, as if I have had no contracts because, again, still learning in the learning stages, but maybe after the today's call, I'm gonna go through the resources for the upcoming clients to make a contract. And till now, Lauren and Jeff and Christopher, what I was doing personally is to break it into parts, like some part at the beginning, like assurance amount, and then something in the middle, like when half of the website is done, for example, if it's a five-page website when two to three pages are done, then you take the rest 50% and you keep the final payment as between 40 to 50% at the end. This is what I was doing now, but I think 50, 25 is, and again, 25 is also a good idea. It depends on how, again, I feel it depends on the client because some people are happy to just pay you 50% of the advance upfront, but something that you will run away with their money because it's a remote job and they are not really trustworthy of you. So they are like, no, I cannot pay you 50%. What if you don't show up tomorrow? So I keep myself flowing and I say, okay, if you cannot pay 50, just pay 20, 25% so that I can start with an assurance as a both-way street. It's a two-way trust. I always say to my clients, it's not only one way you trusting me or you trusting you. We have to trust each other, right? Because it's a remote job. We are not meeting every day. So I think maybe 25, 50, and then rest of the 25 in the end. So however it flows for the people, but I think maybe 50, 25, 25 is a very good idea if people agree to it, yes. Definitely, definitely. Always 50%. That's standard rule. That's industry practice right there. That's just a cross-border on the industry. But one thing like you hit on, which is really important is building that trust with the client. You want to get the client to trust you because they are handing you money. So one way to earn that trust is with a well-laid-out contract. Indeed. It shows more, it's to protect both of you. And the way a contract should be written is I present it and write it in a way that's for both of us. Like what the contract does is it gives clear expectations on what we're both going to get. Yeah, sure. Yeah, with time I'm sure it's gonna get better and better. Oh, it took me years to get to that point. And then my first contract was like a paragraph. You know, that was my first contract. And the second contract was two paragraphs. Yeah. I think every job that I did, we'd always there be something we run into a challenge, something I wish we addressed first, like the no refund. And what I started doing was making a list in my Evernote. I started making a list like an add to contract list. So I started adding stuff to that. You know, as issues came up, like, aw, we had this issue. Let's put it to this list. So the next job I did, I would add it. And then I finally just went and bought a contract. I bought a template. This sounds nice in the end. Yeah, I bought a template. I had the link on there. You know, I use this template now and it covers everything. It covers the intellectual property. I don't even have to do anything. I just write the name, date, and order number on it. Okay. You know, and then in the contract, I just put down the scope of work, the timeline, and the pricing, and the payments. It's a learning process. And I'm sure a year from now, our contracts will be even better, you know? For sure. As of now, I don't have one, but I'm looking forward for the upcoming clients. So to make things easier for everyone in the world, yes. Gotcha, man, gotcha. All right, so the next one though too. So before a contract, let me go ahead and hit share again real quick. So I'm not the only one looking at the slide. Let me see here. So before we even write a contract, we do a proposal. And I like to look at proposals as like the pre-contract right there. And it kind of, it works into the flow. And I guess I should start now that I'm thinking about, you know, I made this slide really fast, but I probably should have added this before contracts right here because in our flow, whenever we're onboarding a new client, it always starts off, you get, you know, you talk to the new client, you do your introduction discovery, meaning get to learn about what they want, how you can help them. And the next step is writing proposals. And then after the proposal, you go on to the contract. So the first step after, the step after you talk to the client, you know, like, you know, you meet the client, you guys have your call, either you're meeting in person or you're talking over Skype, and you're asking all of your questions, you're trying to find out about the project and you're getting an idea of what exactly you're gonna do for the project. So after you get all the information that you need from the client, you're gonna need to write a proposal. Now in the proposal, the first time we started writing proposals, well, actually it was just like contracts, you know, my first year I never wrote proposals. I sent an email to a client and I would say, yeah, this job will be, you know, X amount of money and it'll take me X amount of time. And that was it. You know, that's all I did for, I never did a proposal. And I found out that doing proposals, you know, it makes that communication so much clearer. Not only does it help you get the job, not only will it help you to make more money and to charge more money on it, but it's just like what we're talking about with the contract, with the well laid out contract, you know, it gives more trust. It shows more expectations, you know, gives a clear idea of expectations. And the proposal, a well put together proposal, you know, it'll show your process. It'll let the client know exactly what to expect from you and how you're gonna work on it. It'll break down the prices and payments. So before you even get to the contract and talk about the prices and payments, it's already in the proposal. So they know what to expect. They get a detail of the scope and the project outline, exactly what you will be doing for them. We put in our step by step, exactly what we're gonna do inside there. And we're being as detailed as possible using bullet points. So they know exactly what goes on, you know, and making it clear and easy to understand. This right here is gonna prevent so much problems. It is gonna save you from scope creep. And it's gonna make it a lot easier just onboarding the client with a clear understanding of the job and what you're gonna do. You know, this is the opportunity right here as well to find out what the client really wants in there. Like if the client needs to add more, you know, if they have different ideas, maybe your first call might not have been on the same page. Maybe there's a misunderstanding, but this proposal, you know, this is where you really get the communication open and you start to agree. So it's kind of like a pre-contract, you know? So this way the client gets a chance to add to it, gets a chance to remove it. They get a chance to ask questions. So by making this as detailed as possible, you know, this is what's gonna go into the contract. You get an agreement on the proposal. You just kind of transfer this over to your contract right there. You know, so before we go past the proposals, I really feel this is another thing that would take a really big deep dive into. Cause I can tell you right now, our proposals started off with none. Then it started off with a simple email. Then it started off with just a little one page word doc. But our proposals today are about an average between 12 to 18 page PDF that we put together. That's how deep and detailed that we get our proposals. There's just so much to put in there. You know, your proposals, where you also want to build a lot of trust and where you're going to establish yourself as more than just a freelancer that's new doing this. You know, you put together a well put together proposal. It has like a opening page on it. You know, it has like a welcoming. This is what we're going to do for your business, your goals of your project. You know, it has a page on there that just shows exactly your capabilities. This is what we can do. And this is how we can help you. You know, you have a page in there that shows some of your testimonials on there, some of your past projects. Then you have a page in there that goes through, you know, the scope of work. This is what we're proposing to do for you, you know? Just an example, like in our proposals, if say we do a lot of design, we do mockups in our designs. So let's say for our proposal, we're going to do a custom design. And we're going to design a homepage, a landing page, and desktop and mobile. We're going to do two revisions for X amount of dollars. We'll let them know, okay, this is what you're going to get. If you want more revisions, it'll cost an additional amount of dollars on there. You know, making this as detailed as possible. You know, letting them know the prices on everything. So I'm really looking forward to doing a proposal as call. I think like this, this helped me charge a whole lot more money. Like I could double my prices because I could show more what I could do with clients. And it helps me close bigger jobs. Because I'm telling you right now that if you're going after a bigger client and they're calling up agencies that they're getting out of, you know, just doing Google searches, they're going to be getting proposals. And if you really want to bid with those other clients, you want a chance at winning that job, you got to make a proposal and you got to give them the expectations that, you know, they're getting from other people as well. So real quick, does anybody have questions on proposals? They're throwing, all right, cool. We'll just go ahead and move along. All right, so the next one is collecting payments and deposits. We do 50% always up front, no negotiations on it. We don't bend at all about it. I have bent before about it. And I could tell you that my experience is when a client is hesitant to give me a deposit, when they're trying to give me less than a deposit, they are always going to be difficult collecting money from. It's going to be difficult, you know. Everybody charges 50% that's industry standards. Another one is achievable milestones. So breaking it down into sections, you know, psychos that was, you know, suggestion was given was, you know, if it's a five page website after three pages, you pay this amount after this, you pay this after you pay this, just make it achievable and understandable. So, you know when you hit that mark. Then final delivery, after all payments are made and the agreement is completed, we never turn over everything until the, all the payments are given, it's still ours until that very last payment. After all payments are given, we turn everything over to the client. Now one good way to deal with a client, I've had this happen before where, you know, clients are like, can you just make our website live? We need a live right now. Our business is going to go down if our website isn't live right now. I'm like, where's my payment at? You know, we don't say like that. Just say, yeah, sure. If you go ahead and send me a payment, it's going to take us time, but we need a live right now. You know, they're being really pushy. What I've found is just keep your cool. Keep your cool with it, you know, stand your ground. Don't be like, be positive about it. Like one of the things that we like, the way that I like to phrase to clients is like, sure, we'll be glad to go ahead and put your site live or preparing and getting ready. Just please send through the final payment. As soon as that payment hits, we're going to be really happy to launch your site and go live, turn over all over documents and everything. And use invoices and invoice receipts on everything. And let's go to open it up to Q&A. I know we're kind of already running a little bit late, so we'll just fly through this. Does anybody want to add anything to the call? All right. Sorry, guys, I just noticed the time. Right now, I didn't realize it was already going this long. Oh, one of my throat is hurting. All right. I might have a question, but I'll do that later, maybe, after you finish everything. Yes. All right, all right. Whenever you want to ask a question, go for it. Step in. You know, it's all good. All right, so the last one we're going to hit on is choosing your prices. How to determine your value. And this is a tricky one, especially if you're new. I didn't know, like, what do I give myself? How much do I charge an hour? It's crazy. Like, I have to choose my own price. So how do you do that? You know, and you start off by asking yourself, you know, what kind of value do you really offer the clients? What can you really give them and how can you help their business? You know, what makes you worth more than, you know, a developer that's going to build an e-commerce website for 100 bucks on Fiverr? And, you know, how can you offer more value? If you're trying to figure out how to make more money, how to charge more, it all comes down to the value that you could offer someone. How can you really help their business? And that's what you really need to look down deep inside, you know. The more you could do to help somebody's business and to help them grow their business is the more you could charge. It is the more that you're worth. You know, you're gonna, as you go through your journey, you're gonna start to get that self-worth. You're gonna start to see, you know, you're gonna start to see the impact that your work does. There's nothing like when you build a site for a client and you get the results for it. You're gonna start seeing those results. When you see those results are helping the client out, you know that you're starting to provide value. So just go from there, it's a journey. I can't really say how much you're worth. You know, this is something that comes from within. You know, something I had to figure out from within. I started off low because I didn't really have that confidence when I started off. I didn't really understand, you know, like, I didn't know, you know. So I didn't wanna start off high because I didn't wanna take money from people. And I didn't wanna feel like I was ripping people off. You know, so I didn't start off high. And, you know, also for a long time, I went too low for a very long time because I didn't realize my assets. You know, it's part skills for sure. You know, like what kind of technical skills that you have. There's other assets that you can bring to the table. You know, one of them is the communication, the dependability, the reliability, the communication. One of the common problems that I've heard my clients talk about was how they hired another developer and they disappeared. How they hired another developer and they did what they did not want them to do. So they had to hire somebody else. But they hired another developer and they just messed up everything and now they're just stuck with something. You know, and I saw that was one of our clients. You know, my clients biggest problems. And one of the things that I brought to clients before I got good at building websites. Before I got good at design. One of the assets that brought to them was genuine care. Was reliability and being there for them. Was answering late night calls, jumping on and fixing a problem if it meant their site went down. I don't, I still do it to this day. You know, I got calls over Christmas. Late at night from a client who has an e-commerce website is in a critical period of her sales. This is like when sales are going on. I got a call, it was like 2 a.m. I jumped up, I turned on my computer, I went in and fixed it cause the client was losing money. I did not want the client losing money. And that's another kind of value that I bring to the table. So, you know, when you're trying to like ask yourself, you know, like how much should I charge? Look at the actual value. You know, are you willing to do that? You know, are you willing to do the communications? Are you willing to do the Skype calls and like, you know, really help out more with the research? Are you willing to actually look into the competition? And like, you know, take those extra steps. You know, how much value can you offer the client? It's hard being new when you start off because you're still learning the technical side. You're still learning how to develop the skills and you're still learning on how to manage, you know, your business, your clients and the projects. But you're gonna start seeing these things going on. I think the biggest part of this is it's easy to see the challenges and it's easy to see like, you know, the headaches. It's easy to see like the client horror stories, you know, the nightmare stories. It's easy to see that stuff. It's easy for me to like get down on myself because, you know, like I'm not as good as this over here. A very important part I feel of this is being able to take that time to look at your assets and what you're good at and constantly also looking at that and improve those. You know, that's the reason why inside this group that I want to stay doing, you know, the weekly goals and also your weekly accomplishments. I think it's so important to look at the accomplishments. Not just what goals, you know, you sit in the week you didn't hit, but what did you hit? You know, a man might be something outside of those goals. You know, one of your accomplishments of the week. It could just, you know, it might not even be with work. You know, it's really important to look at those as well because, you know, for me for a couple of years, I was given the value to clients and I wasn't really recognizing it inside myself. But when you start to change and look at the value of what you offer, that's when you really are looking at, you know, what you could charge and what you're worth and what you could offer. And the last part, giving yourself a raise. How do you give a raise? I think I'm gonna leave this up to Lauren because, you know, she's given herself quite a few good raises. Sorry to put you on the spot like that, but I'm not, on the real, I think like you could really help out with this one right here. So that's it for the slides. I'm just gonna go ahead and open it up. One thing I would like to add, Jeff, to what you're saying about valuing yourself. I think one of the best pieces of advice I got was when you get that email or that phone call from that client, do you feel angry? Do you feel excited to help them? Because if you feel like frustrated or scared or you're like, oh, this client again, you're not charging enough. Whereas it's like you said, like I should feel that like, oh yeah, let's get this fixed, let's get this done. That's what I wanna feel with all my clients. But when you feel underappreciated, when you don't feel like you're charging enough, it usually seeps into how you feel with your clients. And so true, so true. I heard somebody say that too, not too long ago. They said like, if you're getting upset with your client, it's cause you're not charging them enough. And I had to take a look at myself from it. You know, when a client starts asking me for all these things, start taking up all my time and starts frustrating me, it's because it's taking all my time and I'm not making enough on it. You know, it's always, that's the answer. Time to raise prices again. Giving yourself a raise. Anybody have any questions? Yeah, I'd love to ask about the hourly base and also the project base, actually. Yeah, you actually answered half of my question from saying that how we, what kind of failure that we bring to us so we can price them right. But in reality, we usually use cost base for our pricing, either in hourly or in project. So maybe you can share how can we decide on the hourly price and also the project price. And then also like, I don't want to feel like we are a bit higher than the market price, but if we are in the same market price, people will start to see like, oh, you are in this price. Then maybe what is the difference between you and this guy if the price is almost the same? Did I make it clear? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's clear. But it's like two different questions. So the first one, well, first let me ask like, what do you mean by a cost base pricing? Be clear for me. A cost base pricing is basically like, I can say your electricity, your device, your time, your internet, that's a cost base. So we decide, no, it's more like, each device have its durability. Let's say for one laptop, it might last for three years. So if we divide it smaller and smaller and smaller, you can say like, oh, maybe for a MacBook, it's the cost for one day may be like around $2 or $3, kind of that. Oh, okay. So, and then also like, let's say you are working not in-house because you don't have a good internet that you have to go to the coffee shop. It's a cost that you have to go out and spend some money in there. And also like, if you are using plugins, if you are using Sketch, you are using Adobe, that's a cost. Okay. So you're talking about like the expenses versus, you know, what you're actually getting paid for, how the factor that is. Right. I used to, I mean, all this time I learned about finance. We usually use cost base to decide how much we price ourselves. This is not about the agency, but in general, I mean, like let's say you're producing a glass from a buckle, then you have to cut it, how much you spend for the electricity, how much you spend for the sandpaper, kind of that. It's easy to decide that, but in our case, because you're a service, it's a little bit hard for me to decide what is the variable for that. Yeah. It's, well, I'm not a finance guy. So it's like hard for me to put a number on that one. You know, and I think like having a definite number would be super helpful. But I do understand what you're saying because, you know, like we pay thousands of dollars a year on licenses, whether it's Sketch, whether it's, you know, Elementor, all the plugins we use and all the tools that we use. You know, our expenses, I do have our expenses per month that we have on it. And I factored that in in the pricing. So say like, you know, like, this is how I price. I'm just going to like say how I price because I don't do all the development myself anymore. You know, now I work with other developers, other designers. So first, what I'm going to do is see how much it's going to cost for me to build. And then I'm also say like, okay, I don't want to steer too far off of your question. Let me see. So for an example, somebody says, okay, we need this 10 page website done. I'm like, okay, it's going to cost me X amount of dollars to have a bill. Now it's also going to cost me X amount of dollars for all the software and licenses that we use on it. So we add in all that stuff. And then we basically add in the costs that I'm going to get on the profit side of it. And I also got a factor in that's going to take my time for project management, for revisions. And then I even add in a little bit more for changes. But I'm sorry, I don't know if that was a clear answer right there. I don't think it was a clear answer at all. That's okay. That's okay, I went too far off. I don't know. I mean, that's actually kind of, I kind of got that. So maybe you can share like, how much we usually mark it up. Like, let's say your costs for the project base, the cost for plug-in, for everything for the server, internet, you count your depreciation for the computer, and then it costs $1,000 for doing a 10 page website. How much are you going to mark it up? How much you will say the price? We usually mark up about $300 or $400. And that usually covers the plugins and themes and like whatever we need for it. I don't consider my computer and all that stuff. Like that's, I've just never looked at it that way. You know, like I look at like my computer and all my like gadgets that I buy, you know, as part of my investment in my business. But like what I'm going to give as far as a deliverable to a client, since I am giving them a product that has licensed, you know, software inside of it, I factor in that cost with it. One thing I've never, that I don't do anymore is I don't ask clients to buy plugins. I don't ask them to buy themes. I don't, I take full control of everything because clients don't want to deal with that stuff. That's our job. That's my job. You know, I know about plugins. I know about themes they don't, you know? So why am I going to ask them to do it? And then I just factor that into the cost and add that in. I do have them pay for it, but I upsell it. It's like, oh, you want this advanced contact form? We can do that, but then we charge extra for it. Yeah, sounds good. One question here though, the ideal way, Jeff, I agree with you is to give them the total cost. But you know, it's also depends on sometimes the mindset of the customers. So do you think it's healthy if I tell them that, yes, I am gonna invest into the plugins for you because it's not your job. But here is the breakage of the cost right away. This is the cost for the designs and this is the cost for the plugins which will be required to make it one step easier for them to understand that what I'm investing money in or do you think it's the total cost we should tell them? And if they ask me the question, then I tell them, okay, $50 for Element.Pro, $10 for Astra and something like that. What do you think is a better way? The total cost or the total cost in breakage like this much for the plugins and this much for my designing skills and that's where the story ends. In our proposal, we break down everything. I give them a clear cut on what they're paying for. The design is gonna cost us much development, software for doing SEO, it's as much. Yeah, so as detailed as possible for sure in it. I just meant that I don't like tell the client, go buy this and come back to me with it, that's what I'm doing. Makes no sense. Yes, it makes no sense to buy because then they get into a lot of problems themselves that is that and you open a can of worms for yourself. You know, like now you are spending two hours just to help them sort that plugin and everything. So it's better to do it from our end but put the cost right there and make them aware of the cost so that it's not in great. Perfect. And Chris, he had another question. You asked, I believe it was how to know when to charge somebody by hour and by project, right? I think it's kind of like you get to, this is something you gotta like kind of figure out when you're talking with the client and seeing what goes better for them, you know, depending on the job. Most jobs we do are by project but our hourly prices are different too. They're not all the same hourly prices. So say we got like this client and we got a big job, we charge them, we factor in the size of their business, we factor in the scope and we come up with the right cost for the job. And then inside that we say ongoing work or additional work for under 20 hours, we could do hourly. I put a cap on it though. I don't say unlimited hourly work. I say for smaller tasks for under 20 hours will be X amount of dollars per hour. And then it also depends on the client. You know, if it's a smaller client, somebody we've had for a long time that their budget isn't as big, they might pay less per hour, you know, but I do put a cap on it. I think though to determine between charging them, you know, hourly or my project is, you know, what you really feel is gonna work best between you and the client. That's gonna work best for you. And then you had a third question. I don't remember what that one was. You threw in two questions at once. Oh, you're muted. No, he's good. Yeah, he's fine. Okay, cool. All right. Let me see here. Thank you. You guys did it. We got to video number two. This is just the beginning. I have a feeling it's gonna take like, I think it's gonna take probably around like four, five, six videos to really get the swing of it. I appreciate you guys, you know, being involved and sticking around, especially in these first ones, you know, I hope like, well, the video quality, all this stuff is gonna change. Like I'm definitely like in the process of looking how to improve it to step it up. And I hope that this could be like an ongoing thing. I don't think it needs to go on as long though. I think we could probably shorten it up a bit, you know, but definitely I'm looking forward to everyone's feedback. What could we do to improve this? You know, what do you feel we could do to make this better? Is it too long? Should we make it way shorter? Should we, you know, focus topics in another direction? And I'm also looking to have other people host these calls as well, you know, maybe even open topic discussions. And, you know, I'm really looking forward to seeing where this goes. Yeah, sounds good. I think it's the early stages. So we will have a lot more ideas coming up in future. It's the second week. And I do not see a lot of participants only. Us three are common than the last week, but I feel every week coming on, it's gonna be increasing the engagement. And I think Jeff, it's a good idea to, you know, let people kind of give a little bit of a host because you have a, for example, a choked throat today. Maybe Lauren can take care of the call next week. Yes. You're volunteering me for me. No, no, I'm volunteering for everyone, even whoever you think is a better idea. Because if it's a family deciding on things for their business, then I think everybody can take charge if they are ready to take it. And my, I personally feel with upcoming weeks, it will get more informative. And I think whatever you are deciding for now, Jeff, it's a good idea because for me as well, it's a new thing to step into, but I'm looking forward to be a part as much as possible in the future, you know. Cheers to that, yeah. Yeah, well, I'm really glad to hear that. Thanks, that makes it all worth it. To me, that right there makes all this worth it. Yes. For sure. And one thing I feel and I could relate with me right now is the number of participants. We just have four people, right? But for me as a person, I think if you are planting a seed in just one mind at a time, you are pretty much doing your job. So it doesn't really matter one, two, five or 10. I mean, if one person you are making a change, because I, you know, other than this, I also do certain things. So for example, I am a life coach for kids in here in India, right? So the idea is to only plant a seed in one person's mind. If you are doing it for one person, I think it does the job. You don't need hundreds of audience because then it can mess it up as well, you know. Everybody talking, everybody questioning. But if there are some people who are making a change in their minds, I think that's a good enough number to keep it forward and not be, you know, thinking that, oh, we don't have 10 people. I think two, three, four is also a very good number to plant the seeds, that's all. So keep going. I appreciate that. I'm definitely more focused on quality over quantity. Yes, indeed. Definitely, you know. Like my vision for the group is not to get it to like 10, 20,000 people. Yeah. But that's not my goal for the group, you know. My goal for this group is to have like a community that works together. Like I'm really looking again like mentorship programs going on and getting, you know, like units and like, you know, actually working and getting involved because I know the more involved that, you know, like when I, the more involved I get in something, the more I get out of it. And if we have like 10,000 people, it's, you know, I'd rather see, you know, a few involved in getting something out of it. Yes, indeed. Thanks. It's really good to hear that. How do you guys feel about the time? Should we shorten it up? You are the leader right now. You decide what to do next. All right, I got another slide. Should we open that up? I'm just kidding. I was like, no way, man. All right, thanks a lot everyone. I really appreciate this. It is the beginning. I have a feeling though, man, this is going to be something awesome. I'm looking forward to sending these roles. And next week as well. If you have any ideas for the next slide, please let me know. I'll start a poll. I want to hear back from everybody what they want to see, what can help them out. And, you know, if anybody wants to reach out to me, here that's actually participant, anybody just watching this video, you know, like just wants to reach out. I'm always available. You can DM me. I am going to respond back to everyone. I think from there, I think we're good to go. Yes, a quick question. Last question. I'm sure you're going to upload a PDF, but will you going to be share the details? Where are you going to upload it? Or how is the PDF going to go about? I'm still setting that up. I'll probably have it done by next week. But, you know, like, yeah. So I'm going to set it up like a link to like my site where you go ahead and download it. Perfect. And I got a question for everybody too before we get off. How did everybody do on this week's challenge? Did you guys all get a portfolio piece done and ready? Gonna work on it pretty soon after listening to last week's working on it, man. Some clients to take care of and also the portfolio, but I feel everything happens at the right time. You know, that is nothing. No rush going on. Let's make it a two week challenge. Yeah. So one week challenge, there is a rush, man. Fair enough, fair enough. Yeah. Well, just keep in mind like, I know taking care of clients is important, but portfolios are going to help you get the bigger clients and the clients you want, you know. So that's equally or even more important. Well, I don't know. I want to say more. I keep client care at the top of my list all the time, but now I also have building my business up there. Perfect, sounds good. Cool. I think on that note, I think we're good to go. I'm not good at goodbyes, everybody. So I'm just going to say goodbye and you know, I'll see you guys again next week. Thank you all. See you later. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you, everyone. Have a blessed day. Namaste. See you.