 Science! We're doing a science show! Hey everyone! Look at that! We're doing a science show! It's time for that show right now that you know and love. Oops, did you hear that? That means that... Yeah, donk! Donk! That means that my iTunes is working. Deep, deep. Okay. So here's the deal, everyone. This is the live broadcast of the recording of the TWIST podcast. Anything that is said here during the show may not end up in the final podcast. But it also might. You never know. So, you know, if you want the edited version, you should subscribe to our podcast. But, you know, if you're here watching this right now, boom! You're in it. You're getting everything. Everything we wanted to bring to you. And more. And it's time. It's time. It's time for the show. We're gonna make it go, I think, right about now. Starting in three, two, this is TWIST. This week in Science, episode number 814 recorded on Wednesday, March 10th, 2021. How to hunt volcanoes. Hey, everyone. I'm Dr. Kiki. And tonight on the show, we are going to fill your heads with short stories, slug heads, and a big sponge, but first. Disclamer, disclaimer, disclaimer. The plan on which you are standing is likely nothing like what you imagine it to be. You might have a picture of the ground beneath your feet being made up of dirt and rocks in the occasional blind mole-rat kingdom or dinosaur graveyard. And if you dig a little, you'll find that your belief is somewhat confirmed. Dig a little deeper, and you will begin to discover that what you thought of as the Earth is but a porous floating crust of theorem detritus upon a thick layer of slushy silicon. A thin film of cooled minerals on a molten substrate descend deep into the Earth, and you'll find temperatures and pressures thousands to millions of times what we experience on the surface. Rewrite, rewriting everything you thought you knew about the normal states of matter on Earth. There's a lot more to the Earth than we can see or touch. It is a diameter of 8,000 miles, making it somewhere around 4,000 mile range from the surface to the core, yet the deepest hole we've ever drilled is a measly 7.5 miles deep. It took over 20 years to get that deep, and fun fact, they were still bringing up plankton fossils halfway down. Which either means that the surface of the Earth goes through some pretty extreme changes over time, or burrowing plankton have been mining the planet of all its precious mineral resources, leaving the Earth a porous hollow shell about to implode like a Florida sinkhole, and while it might sometimes surprise us that our planetary arrangement isn't entirely stable, it is likewise amazing how stable it can be, even more amazing that it's been around long enough for somebody to want to invent this weekend's science coming up next. I've got the kind of mind that can't get enough I wanna live Good science to you, Keek and Blair. And a good science to you too, Justin, Blair, and everyone out there. Welcome to another episode of This Week in Science. We're back. We have science, right? We brought science to this to the science show. Yeah, science from the past week. And there is so much for us to talk about. I have stories that are of an earthen nature, and also, you know, psychedelics because those are fun. Yep, pretty much. Alright, Justin, what did you bring? I have a medieval torture versus practiced by the Department of Corrections. I have shortest story, I think I've ever brought to This Week in Science. Shortest story yet. A new pill? And by pill, you know what I mean. There's a new one. And also, oh, people who put people over country or region tend to be better neighbors. Huh, interesting. We'll find out more about all of this coming up. Blair, what is in the animal corner? I have some amazing alliteration for you today. I brought Crazy Catnip, Freaky Frogs and Severed Slugs. Severed Slugs. It sounds like it should be one of those awesome, you know, stick your hand in the bowl of eyeballs kind of Halloween party gags, but it's science and that's what we're here for. We also have an interview tonight with Jess Phoenix. It's going to be coming up after our intro stories. We've got some stories to talk about and Jess, if you feel like chiming in on any of them feel free to comment at will. Oh, right. I may just involve saying the word lava a whole bunch, but, you know, I can swing that. Lava. Lava. Lava. Lava. Lava. Or maybe magma. Liquid hot magma. Yes, exactly. All right, everyone, as we dive into the program tonight I would like to remind you that you can find twists on YouTube on Facebook and Twitch. Look for This Week in Science and subscribe. You can also subscribe to us as a podcast all places that podcasts are found like, you know, your mobile device when you hit the buttons, but you got to look for This Week in Science. You can also find us at our website, twist.org. Okay, stories. I have a little advice from the science world for my first story. Oh, good. I love when science tells me what to do. Well, I mean, hopefully it's science helping to set priorities moving forward into the future because historically, humanity has exploited nature pretty much every chance we've gotten. It's like, oh, look, a natural resources. How can I use that? How can I take advantage of that and make some cold hard cash? Yeah, so this is, you know, our capitalistic, I would say nature, but I think that's artificial as well. But this system that we have set up has led us to take advantage of natural ecosystems and now we take and exploit natural lands for agriculture for housing for human expansion and use all over the place. Researchers publishing in Nature Sustainability this week have found looking at 62 sites around the world. They've discovered that, oh, I don't know, Blair, this doesn't seem too far-fetched. I want you to let me know and like, you know, bring me back to earth here. Conserving and restoring nature is often more valuable than converting it for human use. That makes sense. It does. So they have taken many of these sites and used a measure they called TESS. It's a measure that's been around a system for checking ecosystems value based on their carbon storage capacity, based on their biodiversity capacity, all sorts of things related to that. And for the large part of the 62 sites that they looked at, it's better to leave them natural to absorb all of the carbon and hold on to that carbon rather than converting it for human use and that the money that would be gained from agriculture or other human uses is not as much as what would be saved by just saving the natural ecosystem. Of course, because every living thing has many roles in an ecosystem and if you're converting it for human use, you're usually capitalizing on one role as a carbon source or as a space taker or as food or as food or as a trophy or as any number of things but each living thing is eaten and does eat or consume and respirates in some way and takes a space but also converts space and does all sorts of things within their niche that is a lot more than just kind of one layer. Yeah, I like that comment Blair that when we use it for human uses it's often for one purpose whereas the natural purpose or the natural use is so multi-purposed that the biodiversity that you would be conserving is valuable that conserving natural lands is valuable and while this study out of University of Cambridge in collaboration with scientists around the world did do a lot of comparisons related to the value per ton of carbon right, so how many dollars do we assess this to be if carbon storage capacity is what because they did take that economic look at it but it's just overall much more valuable in general and they did find that there were some where commodity crops were involved that that was a question where it didn't seem that it was necessarily more valuable to keep it as a natural ecosystem but for the large part forest wetland many locations just leave them biodiverse leave them natural nature benefits humanity I mean it's kind of crazy right like nature actually did a really good job of engineering itself and when we show up and crash the party it's like yeah we weren't really expecting you to like actually terraform the planet in the opposite sense of terraforming like we're not making it like earth we're making it like a horrible dead thing terra deconstruction there you go there you go coining new phrases every week on this weekend science hey Justin after this advice what do you have for us oh that's a very good question I don't know what story I have somebody in the chat room was asking what was the 20 plus year old 7.5 mile hole that was the cola super deep borehole and you were right Russia or former Soviet Union which they stopped drilling once they could hear the screams of the tortured and hell they decided oh okay we don't want to go the solution of the Soviet Union kind of ended the funding what was the story I was going to bring first say there in the rundown somewhere yeah so think about a pill ah not just any pill the pill okay so this is this is a are you talking about the pill like birth control I'm talking about the pill like when somebody says it's the pill there isn't then you don't have to ask which pill you know exactly what they mean if somebody takes any other pill they have to explain what pill that was there's another word that you put with it this one just the pill that's uh so we're going uh thanks to this is something to publish in nature communications there's going to be another pill it sounds like or at least there's one underway this is the Lindquist Institute investigator we Yan and research colleagues have discovered another pill for men natural compound they say safe effective and reversible the compound is tryptonide which can either be purified from an herb where it is naturally produced or it can be produced chemically through chemical synthesis male infertility infertility in this it's pretty amazing within three to six weeks that you reach infertility in which you stop taking it fertility returns in four to six weeks it's a daily oral dose it doesn't it's not hormone related there's no hormone involved with this one yeah that yes that you just is in she's like yes I'm sorry am I the only one that want men to feel what it's like to be on the pill not so here's the thing hey whoa whoa men have been working on a male pill all this time I mean we invented one much like the one that you take but it wasn't quite ready for human consumption so we kept working the important factor probably being that not so permanent influence on reproduction we're detected in either a short or long time treatment these are pre-clinical animal studies that they've used so far all the data suggests that it is a highly promising non-hormonal male contraceptive agent and it seems to meet all of the criteria it's bioavailability it's efficacy, reversibility the safety all of these things what does it do how does it work it's there's an assembly process that takes place in sperm multi-step assembly process and what they basically did was they created a protein that disrupts one of the final phases so they didn't create what's it called the tryptonide is the protein but this was like an active compound from an herb that was being used for some other purpose and then men started saying I've got infertility issues because they were taking this herb and they were like maybe we can take advantage of this this is a voice from Dr. Yan thanks to decades of basic research which inspired us to develop the idea that a compound that targets a protein critical to the last several steps of the sperm assembly would lead to the production of non-functional sperm without causing severe depletion of testicular cells we're very excited that the new idea worked and that this compound appears to be an ideal male contraceptive our results using non-indra studies on lower primates suggest tryptonide will be an effective treatment for human males as well hopefully we'll be able to start human clinical trials soon to make the non-hormonal male contraceptive a reality this is very cool I do wish it were a patch or something that was not a daily pill yeah I just without getting to in the weeds here let me just say I think one of the reasons that women get really good at taking the pill every day is that they have a lot to lose they're the one that's gonna have to carry a child and so I just I have concerns about the habit forming I'm sure it's possible men take other pills for their health all the time yep I would feel if I was in the situation though where I was depending on my partner to take a daily pill I might prefer it was a patch that's all I'm saying so here's the thing you would still I would assume if you weren't completely familiar and prepared you would everybody would be on their own pill I mean that's you know there is some mild thread of men being able to control their reproductive I think when you're talking about relationships and people who are in partnerships with each other you have a lot of trust there and so I would trust my partner to take a pill on a daily basis if that's if that was something he were willing to do and I would I can't wait to be able to have that conversation yeah right that would be nice especially without hormones in the mix there's no hormones people are affected differently right and we know how bad hormones side effects are the pill doesn't have the satisfaction it's fine but I think it's like somebody who's like really spin it's causing them grief then yeah then there's something men can do to jump in there and be part of that as well but yeah I think it's like at first it's like trust but verify you know you're like okay yes we're gonna make an effort but let me just make sure there's like fewer pills in the little thing than there were the day before just to get in the habit I'm gonna check cause everything sweetie did you take your pill yeah I mean I already asked if you gave the dog a pill so it's like alright just one more step in the process yeah exactly yeah alright moving away from the pill let's move to mosquitoes Blair yes mosquitoes another pain another pain and the best way to prevent yourself from getting attacked by mosquitoes is a lot of harsh chemicals like deep which can like disintegrate clothing it's like it's kind of a big deal right but a study from Northwestern University and Lund University looked at the effect of catnip as an insect repellent catnip has long been known for its repellent nature on insects mosquitoes in particular and catnip has been used since the time of Pliny the Elder in warding off insects so there's an active ingredient in catnip called nepetalactone nepetalactone yeah and that has been used for a while for millennia but the these researchers wanted to actually look is it as effective of deep and as deep and how does it work and so the catnip member of the mint family didn't know that they found it that there are actually receptors that mosquitoes have that create this bad reaction to catnip so this is a totally natural way to do this where you don't have to have this kind of modern chemical that you make in a lab right you can rub yourself all over with catnip and become a human cat toy and not be bitten by mosquitoes you'll be bitten by mosquitoes you might be covered in scratches because you're a animal but you won't have a mosquito bite so what they found is that the nepetalactone activates an irritant receptor TRPA1 which is a pain receptor found in animals flatworms fruit flies even humans that's known as the wasabi receptor but unlike wasabi or garlic compounds that activate these receptors in humans catnip only activates the insect receptor now on the opposite side we don't know why cats like catnip there's theories they think that there might be something with an active ingredient and component that somehow interacts with the reward center of the cat brain I think we talked about that on the show I brought a story about it or not too long ago but that's totally separate completely different chemical process and this guy the catnip is dealing with this wasabi receptor which I love that so it's kind of herty to be near the catnip if you're a mosquito doesn't feel good I'm going to plant catnip all over my yard come to me cats stay away mosquitoes yes I'm just picturing though the cat lady from the Simpsons like just I don't know if mosquitoes are just running away and the cats are coming in it seems like pretty dramatic I think someone could do a dramatization for us the pretty dramatic response actually was their final test of this phase which I love which was they offered mosquitoes a blood meal in a dish that was covered in nylon sock that was doused in catnip they went nowhere near that they had a wind tunnel where they had experiments where volunteers put their whole hand mosquitoes and they either had or did not have catnip all over their hand and it was effective so yes talk about that dramatization just stick your hand into it a box full of mosquitoes I want someone to dance this phd for sure oh yeah so amazing yeah so plant some catnip you'll have some natural repellent potential although if you're going on a long hike out in the wilderness and you're trying to repel mosquitoes this way make sure it's not in an area where there's like mountain lions because you never they'll come play with you Jess you've done a lot of field research you're part of the explorers club have you ever climbed Mount Everest no and actually this is going to sound like sacrilegious to a lot of folks but I have no interest in doing it I have to go places for a scientific purpose and there are other people who are really good at going up really high mountains and they're in shape for that and my expertise is better used around the kind of rocks that go explodey rather than the ones that just sit there and kill you without moving this is good to know your strengths really good it's like I wouldn't jump out of a perfectly good airplane like I wouldn't just go skydiving for fun but if somebody's like we have this really intense mission and you have to get in there to save the people oh yeah I'll jump out of that plane I need a reason give me a reason well who knows maybe there is stuff to be discovered geologically on the top of Mount Everest a new study that is out this week is really interesting so fascinating researchers were thinking about early earth okay after we were hot and molten we got water from somewhere there was a lot of water on our planet and it's thought now that there's like an oceans worth of water caught up in the rocks of the mantle like a whole ocean so the question is like alright okay that's good how did that get there and has it always been there what was it doing and so these researchers looking into this question of the early earth and water they have come to the opinion based on their assessment of heat and and rocks that are in the mantle and how well they hold onto water published in the American Geological Union this week that earth might have been covered by enough water to submerge Mount Everest that Mount Everest or that that distance 21,000 19,000 feet into a wave away from earth level like I'm just imagining how much extra water that would be but that Mount Everest could have been submerged at some point in the early earth wasn't the Mount Everest a lot shorter back then or they mean today's Mount Everest would have been able or are they saying back then it would have been because then it's not as impressive if Mount Everest had been on the earth where it is now would have been covered by water it's just some social math trying to explain the height that the earth was a water planet in its early stages these geophysicists are convinced based on their assessment of rocks and how they hold water at different temperatures that the rocks when they were the earth was younger were really really hot and because they were really hot they were unable to hold water and then because there was so much water on top of the planet that the pressure of that water could have cracked the surface the crust and led to the formation of the plates as plates ended up breaking and not flexing like they do now but actually breaking and getting submerged under one another and that would bring the the crust into the mantle along with water and that as the water made its way into the mantle it would have cooled and the planet was just cooling anyway and over time the earth was a big sponge as it cooled it was like your kitchen sponge going I'm going to soak up all this water and that's how it ended up with a whole ocean's worth of water stuck in the rocks below our feet I mean that's plausible I can I can see where they're going with it there are some minerals that are known as hydrophilic they love water and they carry water like mica, mica is one of those minerals but there are the mantle there's a lot of peridotite which is a very rich in olivine it's a kind of rock that's got a lot of this mineral in it that is very green and very shiny and very pretty and that's what we see really commonly in the mantle so they probably were studying the peridotite and the other surrounding materials and saying yeah you know what this seems like an idea because we still are learning a lot about plate tectonics and what it means I mean all of geology has made huge strides in the last hundred years I mean continental drift was still the prevailing when my mom took geology in college in the 60s so like I mean we've come a long way since then so so it's not continental drift anymore what is it? it's plate tectonics yes tectonics okay there we go it drifted on out now we've got a better theory and this stuff is a lot more active than just oh we're drifting away now it's like oh no there's convection in the mantle it's a whole thing yeah I mean the whole idea that there is water beneath the surface and that it's caught up in the rocks as part of the molecular structure of the rocks that like when I first learned that I was like what this is madness but how amazing that there is this water cycle where their water can move from the surface to the atmosphere back to the surface into the mantle come back up like the whole process to me is it's fascinating it's amazing I still think it's weird that there's like there's difference between there's not that much difference between where water is and where land is the altitude compared to the rest of the planet is nothing I'm surprised we have any water or any land there's such a good chance of not having any of both the earth was a little more spongy no water on the surface true if it was a little more wet it didn't have to be that much more wet no land it's got lucky one of the researchers in an interview posted over on the science magazine's news website said that the earth is just such such a in such a delicate place and that what is this that if any of this had been different we wouldn't be where we are too much water or too little and it wouldn't work so gills and webbed fingers which would be really cool oh my god Kevin Costner in Waterworld he was a historian not an actor oh god no oh god no no no okay Justin tell me the shortest story ever alright sure say this prayer review the American Journal of Tropical Medicine and Hygiene by a team of social scientists and infectious disease experts at the CDC University of Albany Northeastern University Health Partners Institute and the University of Minnesota they found that skyrocketing costs of antiparasitic drugs in the US is leading to skyrocketing parasites in US citizens right people can't afford the drugs the whole story so parasites the price of the antiparasitic drug went up the number of parasites in people went up now it could be just a correlation further research may be needed but I think that one may be pretty smooth prices go up people are hungry oh you know okay so I worked as a vet tech in a previous life and I did taste the flavor that we give to dogs it tastes like banana like artificial banana it's a pyransal I think and it's it is good so we cannot run out of this because then poor underpaid vet techs will have no banana snacks no no yeah you have to taste all the things no you don't there's a reason I do rocks now my husband had a rock last this last week that he said look like fiber optics and it was this really neat and I'd start with an S and I can't remember what it was called but he still I don't remember anyway I looked at serpentinite cyanite I don't know anyway I licked it and he looked at me like what have you done was it salty it was a little salty it was fine he just told me not to grind it up and breathe it because then I might have issues oh is it asbestos related it could be you don't you don't even want to just licking it maybe not that's how kiki became a superhero scientists often use all of their senses fieldwork and study and observation but there's also a knowledge of basically what you should or shouldn't like I didn't go by that okay moving on since since Jess is with us I decided to go with more earth based geologic type stories today and I have a story out of Columbia University from the Lamont Doherty Earth Earth Observatory researchers there looked at eruptions larger than Mount Pinatubo in the last 1000 years to kind of see how these eruptions affect climate we know that volcanic eruptions can affect temperature that the material that ends up in the atmosphere can block light Mount Pinatubo resulted in a degree Celsius decrease in temperature over 15 months which is extreme it's significant so they were looking at eruptions over the last 1000 years much bigger than than this and I find it very interesting about the news right now Iceland is like experiencing a bunch of micro tremors and it's like ooh might have an eruption out of southern Iceland sometime soon we've got Mount Etna rumbling and glowing and then Hawaii is constantly doing its thing growing anyhow these researchers found that in addition to cooling effects there can be dramatic changes to the distribution of rainfall for up to a decade after really large eruptions so they found in areas more equatorial that there was a more a drying effect so there was less rainfall in equatorial regions Africa etc and then in over Oceania and more more pole word the rain was redistributed so there was more rain away from into the temperate regions away from the equator it's just a very interesting study and they used tree rings to tell them about this so they looked at how the tree rings were mapping on to rainfall and growth and looking back a thousand years and it's just it's not just right here right now human activity that might be and transport chains of fruit from Africa to Europe that might be disrupted by an Icelandic eruption it could be our entire climactic system for a very long period of time yeah volcanoes will mess you up that's the short version that's the shortest study there volcanoes will mess you up done but you can't really complain if you're living in Hawaii or Iceland because there wouldn't be a Hawaii Iceland if it wasn't for the volcanic activity that made the island so you're kind of stuck with having to just live with it yeah it's a fair point as an inhabitant of the ring of fire in Portland, Oregon I'm very much aware of the volcanoes that are around and great skiing that they bring great skiing yes they're eye on you they are watching you yeah well every time I drive over the Willamette river I take a look at Mount St. Helens which was a nice little disruptive eruption yeah and that was a pretty small one you know compared to the ones that can happen wasn't small for the people nearby but in the you know geologic scheme of things the earth can do a lot more that would make sense that it would affect rainfall because it definitely the particulates that aerosols and everything it just there's a lot of that stuff that gets ejected yeah yeah I just found it very the thinking about water in the water in the mantle and then thinking about water in the skies and how volcanoes are a big part of that cycle I thought the two stories kind of wrapped it together bookended it a little nicely for the cycles in our earth oh hey this is this week in science if you just tuned in thank you so much for being a part of the show tonight and thank you for joining us if you like the show it would be really helpful to us if you told other people about this week in science tell other people bring more people to the science be pretty cool we like new friends okay and now I would like to officially introduce our guest for the evening volcano Jess phoenix is a geologist specializing in volcanoes and natural hazards she likes danger zones and explodes rocks apparently she is an elected fellow in the explorers club Jess has performed research around the world and has worked on projects funded by the united states geological survey national geographic woods hold ocean oceanographic institution the national science foundation and many more and we had her on the show several years ago to talk about the environmental science non-profit that was co-founded blueprint earth and now misadventure is here with a book thank you so much for joining us tonight thank you for having me when you were like yes I'll have you on the show again I was like these guys are a good time so I am happy to be here I can't believe I wrote a book it's like not a science textbook it's a fun book so even better to talk about something fun after the last several years of less than fun for science yeah so I wanted to kind of start with that because when we talked with you it was 2016 and the crazy progression of events in the united states and elsewhere things had not yet occurred and you were working on blueprint earth we talked about blueprint earth and we were like yes love the idea this is super cool what have you done what have you been doing well blueprint earth is still a thing although we had to pause our expeditions because of covid thank you covid which sucks because we were actually doing a really big expedition at the end of the well it was supposed to be may last year and for just returning researchers so it was going to be like let's get some of the gang back together and it was going to be so cool and we didn't get to do it and it was sad and we haven't done any expeditions since last january so it's been over a year and this is the time of year where normally I would be on an expedition right now because our expeditions in the spring have always coincided with university and college spring break so it's like you know so considering how everybody else has been doing in the pandemic I've been doing all right and so I'm grateful for that I have been running for congress which I did in 2018 I mean I started in 2017 because the secret about running for office is that it will suck on to 18 months of your life like a vampire and you'll be so drained afterwards that like seriously after the primary and I did not win the primary otherwise I would be like in congress right now it would have happened I immediately got asked to go to Iceland on a circumnavigation like expedition cruise to film a documentary about Margaret Atwood's life and I'm like wait I just got a call to do what now to go hang out on volcanoes with Margaret Atwood above the Arctic Circle like okay yeah I'm like oh darn I will cry that I didn't keep going into congress like it sucks and then I you know then I basically went to Yellowstone to do something else for science and then I went to Indonesia to do another thing for science and then I ended up going to Greece on vacation and I was like and I still wasn't recovered from running for congress it took me at least a year to like get back to feeling like a normal person because it took that much out of me it was it was nuts so I'm glad we have a new occupant of the White House that way so your your platform though you were very you were bringing science or trying to bring science to congress and you were very you were how was that how was your run and and I will tell you nothing is in the world is quite as terrifying and I I mean I I work with like exploding lava bombs like that is my day John I was going to say how much scarier when when you trend on the front page of reddit because a podcast you're on it was the wired podcast I did an interview with one of the journalists there and the headline was this scientist wants to bring Star Trek values to congress I think people lost their collective minds and so I was in New York then and I remember getting all these messages all of a sudden they were all popping up on my phone people going did you know you're trending on reddit did you know your number one on reddit and I'm like oh god oh god but honestly the best place in the world to have a momentary freak out that like oh my god all of reddit knows who I am for this you know 30 minute period is New York because in New York no one cares it's amazing like the guy driving the taxi cabs like get out of the way I don't care if you're trending on reddit it was wonderfully grounding but but no it was freaky because there are creepy people on the internet who are involved in politics which I know it sounds like a shocker but I had one guy who after some of my appearances gained a lot of traction who started to write emails to the campaign and post on all my twitter posts that I would make all the tweets and say like I own a white van it has no windows and I'm outside of your campaign headquarters and he was like I want to make a suit out of your skin and I'm like okay buffalo milk this is creepy yeah yeah so I'm like super good at dealing with internet trolls now but my god I did not have to want to think about skin suit me no there's politics there's being a scientist in politics which is already something that isn't the norm and there's being a female scientist in politics which sounds exhausting yeah but it was also cool like I don't want everyone to think that it wasn't cool in fact I see in the comments that I've been looking at them that actually I recognize at least one of my political supporters is here hi John and he was a supporter back then and I don't think he wanted to make me into a skin suit so we are like super cool but I have made amazing friends and connections and I met so many young people who were just like they were empathetic they were caring they wanted to learn how to tell fake news from real news and facts from lies and just seeing that I'm like okay I didn't have to win to see a change happening and so I'm hey you know what I would have been the person at the capital insurrection who's like let me go and reason with them which is not what I should I think they would have been like run away run away right now these people are loony so I think that it's I think I'm where I need to be and like I think most people end up where they need to be and right now writing a book and still doing science work and communicating science and running a nonprofit and you know enjoying my my husband and my pets so life is life is pretty good over here so did you learn anything from the run in politics that you could share with people who you know maybe other scientists who are interested potentially in getting into politics is there were there any lessons that you can share yes and this is actually like probably the most valuable advice I could possibly give anyone aside from just saying please get involved please I know it's onerous but read up on local races school board city councils like those matter even if you're in a very small town that matters even more but read up on that stand formed but if you do want to run the best thing you can do the thing that is more valuable than any consultants or any mailers any TV spots is actually pounding the pavement and talking to people because you can convince somebody who has views that are completely on the opposite end of the spectrum from yours to vote for you because you spent five minutes and you really listen to what they had to say so where I was running my district is enormous it's been gerrymandered all the hell and it's like 90 miles across so trying to get to physically see a good chunk of people in the district was a huge challenge it's very different than a district like where Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is which is a really small densely packed district so if you live in a densely packed district you'll have an advantage because you can pound the pavement much more effectively if your district is sprawling then you need to start way before you ever announce your run and you need to start going and meeting people saying I'm gonna run I'm gonna run can I get your support it doesn't start the day you announce it starts like two years before you announce did you start two years before telling people you were going to run no I didn't know I was gonna run until January of 2017 and I announced in April so and all the advice I got between January and April was basically useless when I did things the way that I wanted to do things not the traditional consulting route but when I said let me go online let me let me do my own social media please then it worked really well but you know it's just because the way that politics is done is really good for traditional politicians it's not good for scientists and people who are tech and media savvy so those are some really really good things to think about thanks for that alright so you you ran you kept going after running you've done all sorts of expeditions and TV shows and you've written this book what led to you sitting down and going I have some stories to tell and I want to tell them well I have known some really cool people throughout my life one of whom her name is Madeline Blaze and I met her when I was like a 14 or 15 year old she was introduced to my parents through a mutual friend and she had kids my age and my brother's age so we got to know them a little bit and just we would go back east for vacations and we'd meet them and Maddie is a Pulitzer Prize winning author and journalist and she's phenomenal and she was always somebody I respected so at one point I said you know I've been doing all this work on volcanoes and people seem to think that's kind of cool maybe I should write a book and she went yes you should definitely write a book however why don't you write a book and get a degree for it at the same time and I went huh like I'm a scientist what do you mean I don't need another degree and she said well you can get an MFA at a low residency MFA program and I went oh that sounds like fun like more letters after the name so I interesting okay faculty at at Goucher College in Maryland and so I applied and for some reason they let me in and so I started the program January 2017 and then I started running for Congress while I was starting an MFA program so this book was largely written while I was also running for Congress and I'll tell you it kept me sane both things like the book kept me sane with Congress Congress kept me sane with the book so I finished it after the run was finished but I just thought it was cool to be able to share these these places that a lot of people will never be able to see honestly I mean I can try to make certain things accessible to people who may be physically incapable of visiting spots like this or not have the finances or not have the training and so I'm kind of like I feel like I have a duty because I go to these places to share the experience however I can with people who can't go as a we talked about as a female scientist running for Congress but let's talk about as a female scientist doing field studies in these remote places doing science with volcanoes and can you talk about that experience a bit oh my god just the whole experience in general or like a specific aspect of it because it's not something that comes naturally to me and probably doesn't for most people right like we live our lives pretty well sheltered from the remote at least in countries where we're probably streaming this show right now most of us have a pretty urbanized or even if we're in a rural area it's more urbanized than like the jungle or you know a mountain peak like we were talking about earlier so I think that for me every time I go on an expedition it's a learning experience and even though now I've led dozens of expeditions all over the world it's something I had to learn I didn't know how to camp okay like I was 23 and did not know how to set up a tent so when I went on my first expedition and I was like oh what's a camel back you know and I'm like I have a water bottle it's a Nalgene isn't that good enough and I didn't everyone has to start somewhere I didn't know what sock liners were like there were I did not know how to go to the bathroom outside I did not know so gentlemen I know you've all got an advantage in the going to the bathroom outside or half the time yeah that's true half the time but then again a gentleman or people with gentlemen equipment they have an advantage I have since learned that there are amazing things that women and female equipped persons can use to make the experience easier but I'll tell you like it was really sobering to me to realize that there were people who were so comfortable without door stuff and I was sitting there having like a crisis going like how do you poo outside like we are so removed from the natural world I honestly I do address that in my book I literally talk about pooing and I fell in a sewer at one point in my career that's also in the book because then I had to go on a crazy expedition with my leg non-functional so you know I mean there's a lot of very base humor that's involved in field work so even though we have these really like high-minded scientific principles of like I'm going to understand volcanic hazards better I'm going to contribute to our knowledge about climate change yeah no a lot of us just poo I mean I hate to break it to you we're we're human right and you end up in a situation where you don't have all the trappings of society of a city and you have to make do with what you have and yeah yeah so I think the base humor is that that taking it down to that finding something funny in that base human layer that we all share you have to you have to or you just I mean there are so many situations where everything seems impossible when you're in the field and you have to come up with a creative solution to a problem that you never in your wildest dreams would have thought occurred you're like how is this happening and then in the moment you have to think of okay who do I need to keep calm who do I need to keep safe what are my priorities here can I accomplish any of them and still get out safely like that's so you do that and the only way you can swing it is by having a ridiculous sense of humor okay so wait wait wait so now it's getting too general okay because it went from somewhere like okay gonna go camping and now I gotta keep my sense of humor to get out of here okay between those two points something happened that's what what are you doing on these expeditions to volcanoes okay so there are a few different ways that people can get data on things like a volcano we know where they are they generally don't leave unless you've got real problems and so in the US in particular there are volcano observatories and in a lot of countries around the world that's what they do they task some scientists to be specialists on that particular volcano or group of volcanoes and they basically divide into gas geochemistry, geophysics gas or I already said gases seismology physical volcanology so there's a whole bunch of different aspects that we look at and the best way to think about it is volcanoes are sort of like like a human body and that they have different outputs that we can measure so like with people you can measure your blood pressure you can check your heart rate you can listen to your breathing you can test your blood chemistry so we can do similar things with volcanoes and so when you've got an observatory in place then that's your base of operations you go to the observatory for work every day and you go take your measurements and you see if anything changes and you can test hypotheses because everything you know where it all is now if you're not lucky enough to have an observatory near a volcano most countries I think I don't know of any that have volcanoes near human populations that don't have monitoring most countries at least have a like a seismograph in place you know there are seismometer that prints out a seismograph so they can basically keep a finger on the pulse of the volcano just if something gets all weird then they can say hey people in the neighborhood you need to know that this is going south so and so how weird are these volcanoes though I mean is it just oh there's some seismic activity once in a while is it is it there's still sputing out really hot poisonous toxic gases or something like there's probably the whole variety depending on which volcano is getting looked at so I'm picturing some observant observation points that's right up on the volcano right now that's fine nothing's gonna happen we'll just watch everything from right here others you might be maybe keeping a distance yes because volcanologists do die while doing their job that's a thing that happens in fact in 1991 Mount Unzen in Japan erupted and actually killed three volcanologists a married couple and then another man and it killed them in a pyroclastic flow and pyroclastic flows are I don't know did you all see I think it was the second Jurassic world where Chris Pratt is like running away from an erupting volcano and he's like he's like booking it and there's dinosaurs running next to him the thing he's running from is a pyroclastic flow those actually can move up to 500 miles an hour so Chris Pratt would be toast I did not know he was that fast that guy can move that guy can really move he had the star lord moves in Jurassic world apparently no one asks the volcanologists before they put this stuff in the movie and they're like oh yeah he'll get away from it and I'm like nope he's dead well they didn't ask animal trainers about the raptor training in that movie either so that's a whole other yeah there's a lot call us call us but yeah so sometimes we have to balance the risk that we take with getting up close and personal to get let's say a sample of lava or ash or gas that we can't get from a distance that is the risk going to be too much for the reward because the ultimate goal of volcanology is to better understand volcanoes to save lives and property because this is a really important point and I recently been like I need to tell everyone there are no such things as natural hazards there are hazards that are hazardous to humans because nature as we were talking about before it manages itself just fine it's when we show up and build right near the volcano or an active fault that yeah things go bad so Highway 1 right now is falling into the ocean along the coast of California it is a roadway built on both soft and hard soils right next to the ocean where erosion is taking place along a fault line it's not a natural disaster that's taking place it's basic it's my favorite road on the planet but I'm glad they made it out there and maintained it forever but it's never going to be completely a natural disaster it's a man made disaster by man putting himself along a fault line along the coast on unstable ground that goes to so much of where people are because of the soils around volcanoes are usually much richer so they're better for agriculture there is usually the higher altitude that leads to glaciers that gives water so that you have a water source there are all sorts of aspects of volcanoes that make them these lush beautiful places a lot of times not all the time that people want to live and so we have around the world put so many communities in danger I drive I drive through the Pacific Northwest all the time and I'm like why am I here why are we here what are we doing here this is beautiful yeah and volcanoes are gorgeous in my career I've been able to work in Hawaii, in Iceland in Nicaragua, in Peru Ecuador Indonesia, Tanzania all through the Mediterranean these are not ugly places yes me and I'm like I love everything so there are no ugly places just ugly things people do to places but it's like that's one of the reasons I went into volcanology is because I fell in love with the volcanoes the first time I set foot on them they are so incredible you cannot deny their power sure ancient people settled near them because of the fertile land and often times access to water but you also have a really strong tradition of volcanoes being tied to deities and being things that were worshiped and or feared and or praised in places all around the world so this is sort of like a universal reverence for the natural world that also I think informed where a lot of people may have settled and how they coped with living near a spot like that speaking of I think you brought up Nicaragua there's a story that you tell in the book you were with your partner on a field research trip and it sounded harrowing but not because of volcanoes because of people yes I'm teasing a little but if you could tell our audience about a little bit about this story like it's just dramatic this one was Mexico specifically and yeah it's I mean I do a lot of work in the Spanish speaking world when you do volcano work and so my husband Carlos and I we were just married and by his name Carlos pretty obvious he is of Latino origin he is Mexican and Colombian half and half born in the US but looks as though Mexico is an okay place for him to be I on the other hand they I got some looks especially in rural Mexico but yeah I the best tool that geologists have that a lot of us have me in particular it's my favorite is my rock hammer and it's a single piece of drop forge steel and that's so that the head can't separate from the handle and that's what we use to sample flowing lava and crack rocks open so we can see what a fresh surface looks like like what the real minerals inside look like and we can test them and do all sorts of fun things with microscopes so the rock hammer is really important and I was working in Sinaloa in Mexico and this was in 2010-2011 and you may think Mexican cartel violence is like infamous now but back then at one point we stayed in a hotel in Mazatlán and two days after we left they threw a decapitated head and a live grenade into the lobby of the hotel so it was quite a time to be in Sinaloa and we're right on the coast this is where we're working and then we would go inland to these ancient volcanoes and so we were working in an area that it was a dirt road for like 20 miles in and we had our jeep and we were doing some work and my arm was in a sling because I just had shoulder surgery right before I went to do this research as you do so I have one arm that can't move and it was good timing and so I'm breaking rocks with my right hand and then writing notes real painstakingly and Carlos starts breaking things with a sledge hammer because he liked doing that that's a fun part of fieldwork is hitting stuff really hard and so then we hear an engine and we're like no one else should be here in a mountain in a forest in the middle of nowhere Mexico like rural like there are if anything we would see like a chicken on the road nothing else so we hurry back to the jeep get in shut the doors we have magnets on the side of the jeep saying that we're working with the UNAM the national university of Mexico and so we're like okay hopefully this is good enough we sit there we smile nervously as a dodge Durango with spinning rims and blacked out windows and two dudes and aviator glasses colors drive down this dirt road and we're like okay stay away from that trouble yeah so we just slowly drove forward continued along the road and I went okay we'll look for some more rock outcrops because I was trying to figure out where ancient volcanoes were in this area and you know you gotta dig through vegetation and stuff so vegetation sucks for geology but so we go in and we go in a little further I find an outcrop and we turned around in this little sketchy area that I was like I think this is their marijuana farm let's go because like dogs came out and barked and we didn't see any people but we didn't want to wait to see any people so we you know we spun the jeep around got to back to this outcrop and I'm like huh time for science and then I get out of the jeep look back for my rock hammer and I'm like Carlos where's the rock hammer and he's like I thought you had it and I went I thought you had it and we went oh no we we left it where we were working where we saw those guys so we get in the jeep and I'm like okay let's let's go back maybe they're gone we drive back no sign of them no rock hammer and my rock hammer has a black and yellow handle it looks like a freaking neon bumblebee you can't miss it and I'm like yeah it's not here like it's just not here so Carlos being the wonderful husband that he is he would still do this today because he's just awesome just floors the jeep and we start like banging down this road and my poor injured shoulders like and I'm like hanging on to the handle like don't kill me but we need to get this hammer back because you cannot find a rock hammer in Sinaloa like on short notice and I had a limited amount of time left to be doing that research and the funding was going to run out so we go bombing down the little mountain we get out to the flat area and like we find the narcos and because I'm nuts and Carlos apparently is an enabler we pull up side by side with the Durango and they have not shot us but the guy has his window he rolls it down like this much and so I'm like peering through the window and I put on my best like I am a goofy gringa whole thing and so I go Hola Señor Necesito mi martillo Soy geologa y necesito el martillo I just went on this whole thing like I really need this rock hammer I'm a geologist I'm working I'm studying volcanoes the guy's face like goes like volcanoes and then and then he goes is it dangerous? and I'm like no these are all volcanoes and then of course I should have known where he was going to go next because he's like I oro which is is there gold and I was like oh no there's no gold and I just said but look I'm really this research is really important I really need my hammer and then the guy's like he tells somebody something in the back of the car I can't see anything and I'm like they probably have their automatic weapons like fully just pointed through the doors at us I'm sure they did and they were just like who the hell is this chicken like what is she doing here this is really weird because Carlos hasn't said a damn word and he's sitting next to me we got the university sign on the Jeep it's a bright red my dyad so we are like hi we're here anyway the dude takes mercy on me holds up the rock hammer by the bottom like he's holding that bottom in the heads down here and he's just like is it this one and I went I was like yes yes thank you so much oh my god you know and the guy was like you could tell he was like weirdo but got the hammer back and then we drove away slowly and respectfully and then we both went did that just happen like did we just chase down Narcos and get a hammer back yes we did cool alright what other work can we do today and we had so many more run-ins with them like it was just working in dangerous places is not limited to the volcanoes it usually is the people that cause more of a problem yeah that's what I was that's what I was wondering and do you often travel I mean you're traveling with teams do you ever I mean this book is full of so many stories it's just stories yeah I know we have teams but what would you like to know about them I guess the question in there's the two different questions in just the going and working in these dangerous places have you just had a number of run-ins as a female scientist that you're like this is ridiculous and dangerous and I want to go home now it's a good it's a good question um honestly not from just by virtue of being female the only times I've ever been like I want to go home now have been if I'm really cold I don't like being really cold like right now my head is really cold I have bad circulation so when I work in cold it's like when I was doing some work in Peru and we got snowed in I was like I will never be warm again and we were like over 16,000 feet high for several weeks so and I was injured I had the leg injury from falling in a sewer don't recommend it um so I just like that time that's when I wanted to go home but I've always been um like pretty fortunate I mean I've had some moments where in retrospect it's like oh that that could have been really bad but again it's always the people it's never the volcano or the mountain or you know it's it's just when people are acting sketchy um and so I have been on trips where people have been armed as security um because you need to be uh in fact actually it's common even close to home uh some of the women who went to Cal State L.A. which is where I did my masters uh when they would do their their field work in the Mojave desert they would take weapons firearms with them uh because they were out by themselves for extended periods of time and they're like there are basically I always tell our students when we do research in the Mojave I tell them there are three M's in the Mojave desert there is um meth mining and the military so yeah the military is fine the meth not so much yeah well some of the mining's legal some isn't so you know it's why this is news to me there's there's meth and vetamines in the desert like people are what are they just isn't that what the entire show Breaking Bad was about pretty much yeah I guess I missed that part meth in the desert yeah it's not just it's not just a new Mexico thing like it happens in California too yeah yeah so on the other side of this is dangerous people you might come into contact with a lot of people who are well out in the field as a as a single scientist or even with a team but in the biological sciences right now there is a big push and there have been papers letters that have been written that have been published in the last couple of weeks by groups of people who are trying to change the I guess change the culture of field science in biology to make it safer for women because in out in the field even the people on your team if they are more I guess more primary scientists or you know anything there things happen and people talk about abuses all the time and is that something that has ever been a concern to you and is it a concern with the field of geology and volcanology in general I think any any group these days that thinks that wouldn't be a concern for them is like lying to themselves we have and you know this show right now has a lot of female input but we can probably all speak to experiences I mean even just the last couple weeks I had dudes cat calling me and I'm like I'm wearing cargo pants like stop it you know I'm walking into the grocery store leave me alone just because you're wearing a mask doesn't mean I can't see your eyes but it's like it's like this stuff is so pervasive that it just became so normalized not to address it that I think that yeah geology and biology any field science really needs to think about how they're keeping not just you know students who aren't male safe but students who are students of color or students who don't look like whatever the people in the area look like and I mean I know students of color who want to do or do carnivore ecology but who aren't comfortable studying bears in you know the western part of the united states because they are looked at with suspicion if they're in rural communities and I mean I saw it happen I've been out in the field in California in some of the more rural areas with colleagues of color and we've gone into restaurants and they get treated terribly and I get served just fine and I mean it is a problem so you know because I run a field research program I try really hard to make sure that the culture at the top is a supportive positive culture that is open and I mean we have been I think we've worked with over 350 students now we've taken them out to the field for expeditions ranging from like 5 days to 8 or 9 days and it's been like 26 or 27 expeditions I can't even remember now but our students by and large have had positive experiences I mean there have been a few who have been like I'm super homesick I've never done this before I'm freaking out like I have to go but for the most part I think it's also because at the top of the organization we have no tolerance for things that are not that are going to make people uncomfortable the worst we want you to be uncomfortable about is going how do I poop in the desert and we can help you with that we won't help you poop but we will help you with that I'm scared for success yes you hope yes you hope you can help them what adventure is next on your list I mean you've got all sorts of adventures in here misadventure what is next for you well I am oh my god nothing is certain because of COVID but if I had my druthers I wouldn't have a TV show that I have an idea for because I filmed one which is actually totally not in my wheelhouse so I've got I'm co-hosting a Discovery series that's coming out soon they haven't given me an air date yet or I would tell you but it's um I am the scientific person to balance out this this wonderful guy named Stell who is an Atlantis expert and he wants to try to see if the Atlantis myth has its origins in truth so we got to go all over the Mediterranean and go to suspected sites for potential real Atlantis and either prove or disprove them based on Plato's telling of the myth so I got to do scientific stuff there's a five star hotel in Sardinia that I think I think might be crucial to the whole story we should go there and spend like a week it's got the pink beaches it's really nice the cool things like I got to do some cool stuff for this so I want to make more cool informative TV because we got to use ground penetrating radar we got to go on archeological digs I repelled into the third largest sinkhole on earth so yeah and there's only a handful of people who've done that so that's on the show and I don't think they had footage of the first time somebody went in it but now we've got footage of it and I'm telling you like I was the person who was like Atlantis come on I was an ancient history major as an undergrad and I was like no this is goofy when we went and saw this stuff I'm like oh maybe there's a grain of truth in it I'm not saying we found Atlantis but I'm not saying we didn't find Atlantis oceans rising and falling wouldn't it be the ancient Sumerian kingdom that ended up in flooded for a long time also led to the flood it's also one of the anyway we have enough content like I mean honestly Stell ran this website called like I think it was Atlantapedia there were two of them within like the same six month period like ten years ago Stell started one and then this other guy started one and one was .com one was .net and instead of fighting they became friends and so their powers combined and they were like Captain Atlantis there are actually a lot of candidates and we would talk like not just on camera like we actually got along really well and I would be like do you really think there was an Atlantis and he'd be like nah but I wanted to come and poke holes in the myth and see if I could and then over the course of the whole show we were like well actually maybe this could have been it there's a lot that matches up and it's not necessarily Sumeria but we only went to five countries so there's a lot more that we still need to go and check you know for science where did the Phoenicians come from they just showed up one day there they were they had blooders where did they come from under the sea beautiful red purple urns that's what the Phoenicians were known for at least that's what I remember from like 10th grade history but no so I hope to make more TV soon because I want to make more TV that has that shows diverse scientists that's really a big passion of mine so I want to get out there and do a lot of that so we shall see but on right now it's like if they start to green light projects hit me up I got this one it's sort of like a scientific sketch comedy like you take SCTV and the science network and you put them together I would watch I am like the thing when I ran for congress the thing I realized is that like nerd humor is all encompassing and everyone's invited and so I'm like why would that show not work I mean you'd have to convince me it wouldn't work because I'm on board it would work it could work let's just sell it make it happen for your book what do you hope that people get from your book basically the unifying thing sorry my dog is trying to climb on my lap Titan you really don't need to be part of this he's least here but you can't see him there is his little nose okay so the thing that really runs through the book and runs through my work as both a scientist and a science communicator is that right now particularly in our society we have this real problem with ignorance as a disease and ignorance and willful ignorance intentional ignorance as well as unintentional ignorance is really it's choking so much of our potential as a society and it literally is killing people so I mean look at covid so we really need to fight the disease of ignorance with the cure that is curiosity and I think that that is the thing that as humans it doesn't matter where you're from or anything about you other than that you are a human you're homo sapiens we have this inherent curiosity we all are born curious we're born as scientists and explorers and we test our observations about the world around us from the time that we can grab stuff we then stick it in our mouth oh look my foot does it taste good oh look this dog poo does it taste good that's what babies do yeah it doesn't taste good but we are testing a hypothesis and that love of learning that innate desire to know about how we fit into the world around us that unites all of us as humans and if we can just keep up that enthusiasm for kids like get them through that crucial part of middle school and into adulthood and keep engaging adults with just being curious asking why the mountains are where they are why that frog is neon green you know like asking those questions that is I think what we need to meet the challenges we have in this day and age I mean climate change over population I mean these are not small things so if we keep asking the questions wondering that is what I think that's what I want people to take from the book is that wonder is for everyone curiosity is innate to all of us so parents read the book, enjoy it take these lessons to heart stop telling your children to be quiet when they keep asking questions and then when they ask why or how you say go find out exactly and it's okay to say you don't know for everybody scientists, adults, parents youngins say you don't know but then go look it up or go do the research for real research not just like youtube rabbit holes of like conspiracy videos don't do that ask somebody how to find factual information how to check a source you know ask a librarian we are great for that both for people who will make that a priority exactly national stage we can all learn how to learn we can all learn how to find good information if you don't know you can go find out Jess thank you so much I don't want to keep you too much later unless you want to stay with us for the rest of the show you don't have to go I would say that I could stay but big news surprising news my husband and I are adopting a kid and they are coming home with us on friday it is a teenager so this is the first time I've said it in public because oh my god it's real so we've got tonight and tomorrow and then oh my god we're going to be parents like insta kid which is just blowing my mind so I actually need to go and like do stuff that isn't talking about science but yeah so this is my actual next adventure I guess that's amazing it's a huge adventure and it's it's been a lot and you know what parenting in a pandemic I'm sure you guys get how that is or at least Kiki does do either of you guys have kids splitter and Justin I've got a handful it's fun right this whole thing everyone's like oh no we're all fine and I'm like when you say that and you're twitching it doesn't really sell it so it's not selling the whole fine thing really well but our kid is pretty awesome so when it's legal when I can you know the whole court thing I can't introduce them as of yet but when I can I will and I'm sure there'll be somebody you see on adventures in the future amazing this kid does not know what amazing home they're moving into well thank you all for giving me the chance and I will make sure that we watch and listen to this as a family you know we'll watch the stream when you guys post it and well when it's not the live stream anymore when it's the it's not a dead stream what is it just a recorded stream I don't know yeah it's a postmartem is that what a trick it is I'm not sure thank you all you guys are amazing and I love being here and I would love to hook you up with any guests in any areas that you ever need someone in if I can help with my network I would be happy to because you're all delightful yes thank you so much stay well stay well joining us thank you before we take off where can people find you and information about your book this is the hard copy you can visit my website I don't actually have a link to the book yet because I am you know trying to become a parent but you can find me on the internet I am ubiquitous on the internet Jess Phoenix is my name I am not the Olympic equestrian from Canada or am I the Jess Phoenix who does art in Washington I am the volcano oriented Jess so you can find me I'm on Facebook I'm on Instagram I'm on Twitter Twitter most often it's not all science often I yell about politics so and you know the 90s but it's a good time everyone has to yell about the 90s that was a thing yes but thank you all and if you do have volcano questions you can contact me via VolcanoJess.com and ask your volcano questions yep thank you so much have a great night bye you too alrighty and everyone once again that was Jess Phoenix you can find her at VolcanoJess.com this is This Week in Science thank you so much for being a part of the show for enjoying it and if you do enjoy it consider supporting the show head over to twist.org click on the Patreon link and choose your level of support anyone donating $10 or more a month will get their name read at the end of the show unless you tell me that you don't want your name read then I will take it off the list and you will be anonymous but we appreciate I want to read the names because your support is really what keeps the show going and we do appreciate every every cent that is sent to us thank you for your support we really cannot do this show without you alright Blair hmm I think we have come to your part of the show I think so yep that's what the rundown says it's time for it's time for Blair's Animal Corner with Blair with Blair what you got Blair I have a story that you may have seen all over the internet so sometimes when a when an animal science story goes viral I go okay I'm not bringing that to the the show people have seen it they get it but sometimes when they're especially weird or people have weird takes on them I really like to bring them so that we can actually talk about factual factual science of what these clickbait headlines are about thank you Blair over the past couple days I saw the headline sea slug chops off on head sea slug survives without head sea slug regrows head um lots of weird things um sea slug survives like plant without body but ultimately here's what's actually happening okay what's the truth tell us what's actually happening is also bizarre it's it's great oh sea slugs they're just the gift that keeps on giving so these saco gloss and sea slugs don't say that five times fast oh my anyway there are two species of them that have been discovered doing something truly amazing so this was discovered by mistake and it was in a lab and what they saw was that they came in they checked it on these sea slugs they raised them from eggs studying their life history just basic stuff and there was a slug head living around without its body okay and I need stuff like this happen sometimes yeah weird invertebrate thing who needs worms they cut themselves in half all the time and they keep going right right right and in one case actually did it twice in their life sand which is pretty wild so what they saw was this head separated from the body was moving on its own it's a slug so sure we can see that happening within days the wound actually closed at the back of the head and then they started feeding on algae and then they began regenerating their heart and then within about three weeks they were complete again they were generated their entire body wow so if they were older couldn't quite get there didn't feed after they chopped off their body and they died in about 10 days but the younger slugs were able to completely regrow their whole body including their heart just keep on truckin so here's the other thing the cast-off bodies I know everyone's shouting at me from the chat rooms and people watching and listening well what happened to the body did the body regrow ahead no it did not regrow ahead saw like you chopped it in half and you got two slugs no no no the body eventually kind of shriveled up and stopped moving but not right away the headless bodies did move and react to being touched for days to months for days to months they're like I'm here I guess I will fade away into oblivion because I can't go get food because I don't have my head sensory organ anymore so they think also a big reason that this is possible is that these slugs have a symbiotic relationship with algae where they eat algae and then they can use the photosynthetic ability of the chloroplasts they actually incorporate the chloroplasts from the algae into their body we've talked about that on the show before so cool it's a habit known as kleptoplasty we've talked about on the show I stole those photosynthetic bacteria so this is a unique element of this is that they have the ability to photosynthesize which means that as a head just a head they can still create energy and metabolic processes to then make a whole body they presumably could not do that if they didn't have a way to create energy without a stomach so they do think the real question is how are you able to build this whole new body so the suspicion is that there are some sort of stem cells at the cut end of the neck that are capable of the regeneration but what they still don't know is why they do it the again hypothesis no testing on this yet complete hypothesis so this is the other thing that I saw in the news was that they were the headline was that this is why they were doing it this is just a guess from the researchers but they do know that these slugs have internal parasites that inhibit reproduction so it is possible that they recognize that they are riddled with this parasite that means they won't be able to reproduce they just ditch the caboose did you just did you just rhyme that uh-huh can't reproduce ditch the caboose so that's possible no research on that yet again this discovery was a mistake they were trying to look at I think it's interesting though I saw the news all over the place as well that the reason that they were allowing this regeneration cut the head off to get rid of the parasites full of parasites and I have to get rid of them um ditch the caboose right as you said but that's interesting that that's not they don't actually it's a speculation and they don't actually have any data behind that yet none at all they also don't know what you prompts them to cut off their body or how it's done I mean I'm going to go ahead and guess that it's probably a similar mechanism to how lizards chop off their tail at will but yes this is all stuff that needs to be studied now because this unexpected discovery was made yeah yeah I mean going forward that seems like that would be an easy thing to set up experimentally absolutely yeah infect some with parasites don't infect some with parasites did they all lose their head do parasites make sea slugs lose their heads news 11 you got it so that's cool the photosynthesis aspect is really cool that's pretty amazing yeah and so that's probably also why the back end lives as long as it does as well otherwise if you were a predator that eats slugs really got to chew your food can't just swallow it it's going to keep wiggling for a month it'll be those cartoons that show people and animals living inside of a whale's stomach something similar to that the sea slug keeps flopping in there absolutely and then yeah sea slugs are wild they they've provided so much joy to me in the animal corner it's just you know if you're feeling adventurous go to twist.org and type sea slug into the search bar you'll find some amazing stuff but moving from sea slugs to frogs, tree frogs specifically there are frogs that have what appear to be their very own built-in set of noise cancelling headphones let me explain so you know you're a frog you're a boy frog you want to get the attention of a girl frog how do you do that? you sing ribbit, ribbit, ribbit but where do most frogs live in wet places and in wet places especially like a rainforest right there's a huge number of species and other sounds yes the rainforest is the loudest habitat on the planet and so places where you find frogs often not quiet so how do I as a male frog on the prowl how do I get the female frog a hundred yards away to hear me and my song how does she hear me? very selective hearing right but how do you tune into her selective hearing I mean you gotta be louder you have to sing the nicest what is going on so luckily evolution provides a way so the females have a method to be able to cut through all the noise and listen to just the male frogs that have a special call for them so the way that they do that has to do with their lungs they have a special set of lungs that when inflated reduce the eardrum sensitivity to environmental noise in a specific frequency so that they can hear calls of mates wait wait wait wait wait wait so you're saying the females have inflatable ear sacks no lungs ear sacks their lungs they have inflatable breath organs that block their ears up yes yes like putting frequency specific cotton in their ears absolutely yes so they actually it works really similar to noise cancelling headphones actually it's a very similar property now first before I go any further I'm gonna again debunk something that I've seen on the internet related to this story the cover photo is a picture of a frog with their throat engorge right it's expanded it's blown up and based on this headline inflated lungs help females hear it would not be a surprising cognitive leap to look at this and think that's what you're looking at but no the picture is a male frog expanding his throat yes exactly to call it has nothing to do with the noise cancelling features I just wanted to throw that out there yes you're not getting too confused about like are there lungs in their throat no so anyway I just wanted to take care of that but female ear lungs ear lungs in the lead author Norman Lee of St. Olaf College in Minnesota says quote in essence the lungs cancel the eardrums response to noise particularly some of the noise encountered in a cacophonous breeding chorus where the males of multiple other species also call simultaneously so this is what I was talking about with like the wet place basically being the nightclub that's where all of the frog species are calling out and so there's a lot of noise this is spectral contrast enhancement it makes frequencies in the spectrum of males call standout relative to adjacent frequencies this is also analogous besides noise cancelling headphones it's analogous to the signal processing algorithms used in hearing aids and cochlear implants it is basically amplifying or boosting the frequencies present in speech sounds which attend you wait or filter out frequencies between those in speech sounds or both so it's kind of separating those out that's how a cochlear implant or a hearing aid works but so in the frogs the lungs attenuate the frequencies occurring between male mating calls and other noise so the physical mechanism by which it works is similar to how noise cancelling headphones works as well the lung inflation has no effect on directional hearing doesn't make them hear better but there is an impact on sensitivity in the eardrums so with the inflated lungs the eardrum vibrated less in response to sounds within a specific frequency range so it is actually a physical interaction where because they're kind of expanding their cavit I guess like there's pressure against their head so it's reducing the amount of vibration happening in their eardrum so they're dampening vibrations and cancelling out noise so essentially it works like noise cancelling headphones it also confirms that females can hear males of their own species despite other sounds happening in the area but they also did a kind of a control test to make sure that the female could hear the males with or without the lungs inflated so the lungs had no impact on the sound or the interest of the female to male connection but it filtered out the noise which is really what this was about that's fascinating the idea that you just take a breath it's going to affect how you hear it's so interesting and that is a strategy by the females to be able to hear their mates that's adaptation that is specific that's amazing so for the next steps for this group of researchers they want to find out more about the physical interaction between sources of sound, external internal via the ear and internal via the lungs so they want to look at these three different types and they want to determine that your drum's vibration response but they also want to know if this is a widespread phenomenon in frogs they only saw it in the green tree frog so far they want to see if this is more widespread I think that you know it also wouldn't be that far of a jump to foresee this being used in future cochlear implants, hearing aids, noise cancelling headphones, any of those things if we see it perfected in nature there might be something there for us to learn to improve our technology as well really yeah well it's changing the ability of whatever vibratory structure or whatever sound, transduction structure that you have to be able to pass certain frequencies along to the ear yeah cool thanks Blair super interesting now time for torture I was feeling so good it was so great Justin talk about torture torture as much so there's this thing called the department of corrections it's where our criminal justice system places people in a correctional environment to they would suggest rehabilitate people and get them ready to reenter society at some later point however as with a lot of our institutions sometimes the thing it sounds like it does and the thing it does are different we've been talking a lot this past year about the sort of intersection between policing and mental illness this is a study by researchers at Florida State University they published it in Justice Quarterly a publication of the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences they found that having mental illness was associated with a significant and I'd say highly significant increase in the likelihood of being placed in extended solitary confinement when incarcerated so this is quoting our findings provide new information on how mental illness shapes experiences for incarcerated men and more broadly how the criminal justice system responds to people with mental illness this is Sonya Sinek professor of criminology and criminal justice at FSU who led the study bottom line is that incarcerated people with mental illness appear to garner differential responses from the prison system so we've sort of talked a lot about on the police response to citizens whether they should be the ones taking that sort of front line against people who are having mental issues maybe they're getting called even sometimes to the family we've heard all sorts of tragic stories about this about the training and whether they're equipped for it or the right ones to respond regardless that's still not solved people get incarcerated from these scenarios and others who have untreated mental illnesses because our society has of course not taken it upon ourselves to care for one another to any significant degree where we take care of this so anyway solitary confinement if you're not familiar with that's a practice where they will take somebody who's already incarcerated in jail and put them into an isolated cell where they stay anywhere from 22 to 24 hours a day sometimes for months with no other contact we studied 155,018 men who entered prisons in a large state state prison honor after July 1st of 2007 they were released all before honor before December 31st 2015 so these were 8 year or under incarcerations in this state prison the men were assessed within 60 days of their arrival to determine if they met the criteria for psychiatric diagnosis more than 15,000 men were diagnosed with a mental health condition these men were then matched with a control group of the same size and who had equivalent characteristics so they went through a pretty good list of making the type of crimes, the type of criminal history, the race the psychological traits that they had, all these sort of things kind of matched them up with 15,000 who did not, who were not diagnosed with a mental illness study found that 1% of all of these men that they had gotten so 30,000 were ended up at some point in the extended solitary confinement it also found that prisoners with mental illness were 170% more likely to be placed for extended periods in solitary confinement depending on their diagnosis and this is sometimes for months at a time the higher risk was present for people with bipolar disorder major depression schizophrenia, psychotic antisocial personality disorder and some other personality disorders but it wasn't higher for anxiety, impulse control or post-traumatic stress so you can imagine that doesn't sound like that I've heard of by any mental health organization in this century or at least the last half of the last century that seems like a very outdated way of handling somebody with a mental illness, putting them in 23 hour a day isolation and that means you can't use a phone, can't have visitors you don't have any anything absolutely I can put in isolation reasons that they were placing these individuals that they had listed were things like safety concerns problem with institutional adjustment that sort of thing but they had weighted that against the other 15,000 people in the group who weren't diagnosed and they found that well this is the quote here again this is my repecon doctoral student criminology and criminal justice FSU our results suggest that the association between mental illness and solitary confinement is not simply a matter of more violent behavior by this population rather incarcerated men with mental illness may have more difficulty adjusting to prison and its rules resulting in more punitive responses by prison staff this is again police mentality being applied to mental health issues it is showing up as in prison as we have seen it showing up on the streets of our society as an escalation of force as opposed to any real understanding of the underlying issues that they're the patient or prisoner maybe so now we need to do is take this scientific study that has been done and all the others that have been done on corrections facilities and actually do something with that information I think that's that's the tough part right is that there's lots of there's lots of hurdles between this and that but I think it's that's why this conversation is so important is because it's about public perception but it's also about making sure that that data is part of the process when managing these facilities right as long as as long as you have a political system or governing system that cares what numbers are which throughout this pandemic a thing that literally could kill anybody we haven't seen a whole lot of care for the data anyway so I'm a little pessimistic so I'm gonna move on by next story this one's I'd be before you continue with the pessimism the hope is that studies like this will shine a light on problems that people didn't know were prevalent that the majority of people didn't know were prevalent and that change will be made possible as a result because people do care sure well some people care that's my next story some people don't this is a university Washington study it shows an identification with all of humanity as opposed to identification with jid graphic areas such as countries such as nationalism or even a town predicts whether someone will engage in pro-social behaviors and in this case they used it tied it particularly anchored it to the pandemic so whether they would donate their own masks to a hospital where they would come to the aid of a sick person if they were thought more so the questionnaire was a bunch of questions that people could take online I think they had 2500 responses from more than 80 countries so it's an international study so this isn't specifically United States because we only have 50 countries here that we make up researchers say that the findings could have implications for health messaging in the next pandemic because people so they would ask questions like do you care what goes on in other countries do you think we should be involved in what goes on in other countries so sort of a whole bunch of these and then they would ask one of those big surveys where they were asking you sideways questions about your philosophy people who were more nationalistic were less likely to call an ambulance and wait with a sick person for it to arrive less likely to go to a grocery store and buy food for a neighboring family or have a person exhibiting obvious symptoms of COVID-19 to a hospital less likely to donate masks to their families to a hospital that ran short and less likely to follow World Health Organization guidelines people who thought more generally about humanity not tied to who those people were, what town they were, what country they were in any of that would were more likely to help out in all of those instances which is sort of interesting if you think about it if that correlation holds true beyond this study it means the more nationalistic you are the more you're like I love my country the less you will care for your neighbors then what's your country well isn't that the whole thing about nationalism though is that like nationalism when pushed to the extreme is essentially an us versus them mentality yeah but it's weird that you think that when you're talking about your neighbor's family that's running low on food you're very nationalistic but you don't care if your neighbors go hungry at all like there's something there's like a disconnect between being it sort of reminded me in a weird way of all the USA USA USA chanting that happened in this capital insurgency thing that took place and then the guy who's trying to like shame text his ex-girlfriend send out how he ends up getting caught but he doesn't even get along with his ex-girlfriend he doesn't even get along with the people closest to him in the world but he's very pro nationalistic and chanting USA as he's you know there's like a weird disconnect that happens when you get people thinking nationalistically that has nothing to do with caring for their fellow country person but kind of what I was saying before though is that it's a similar mentality so nation versus other nation house versus other house all the way down exactly yes it is a similar pitting that can create similar thinking within your brain yeah it's fear and it's us versus them and yeah yeah so so one of the things they're talking about doing is taking this data and applying it to messaging for future emergency health campaigns and that sort of thing although I think it's sort of interesting you would have to I guess then then you would be phrasing it for for the good of your nation for good of our nation hey our nation is doing worse than the pandemic than these other nations so we've got to beat that nation by wearing that that's to be something you have to get a little more convoluted in it I guess well you have to steer away from them that right because you're saying that the people who are nationalists are worse neighbors so you want to not use nationalist imagery you want to do something else see I think that we're coming to different conclusions then because I think that my takeaway was that you have to attack it as tribalism you have to attack it at the next town over is getting monorail and that's why we need to do it in this town too because they're not going to have a better like you have to somehow tribalize it for those people who will think tribally and you can message it for the good of all humanity for the people who respond to that they will respond that way that's working but that messaging is failing on the people who are against us versus them you know I guess you have to fear monger to them right you'd have to say like hey there's people trying to get you covid under this conspiracy thing so wear your mask because they're all around us like you almost have to do something so I'm going to push back here because the title of your article is helpful behavior during pandemic tied to recognizing common humanity so that to me reads as getting away from nationalism is what creates helpful behavior correct right so maybe you can maybe you can start talking about school now you're talking about getting people to have that sort of thinking in the first place you're absolutely right but what they found was those people who already are not thinking that way were the ones who didn't respond not that they couldn't get met weren't getting messaged that way it wasn't saying this but yes yeah so okay so people who are more likely to help are those who are they're not thinking nationally they're thinking in a more connective manner maybe country or maybe town or town and country but but you're right in terms of being able to start how do you approach somebody you meet somebody where they are so perhaps you start a conversation talking in an us versus them perspective and then you bring it around to another perspective that connects them with somebody else and you start bringing the conversation you you manage the conversation on a personal level to be able to bring them around to a different way of thinking that is less combative or less personally oriented it's something that is a long it's a long-term strategy not short-term messaging for sure well and you can also try to identify who exhibits those behaviors who could be a leader in a group so this is a big part of it too right is if you identify the people who who think about humanity instead of nation first and they have connections to this tribalist group then they can help bring people along who are thinking in a tribal way but I think they have to do that if you're bringing those people along I think you have to find a strategy other than it's for the good of others I think that's the point because I think they're hard-wired in their this is why we need to talk with somebody like George Lakoff or some of the other researchers who are doing this the research looking into political identities and the messaging that works there's a lot of research that is actually that you bring occasionally Justin that has to do with why and how people respond to things in particular ways and there's we can postulate and speculate and be like I think it's this and wouldn't it be great if it's this but there's actually science that people study the messages that work for different groups of people and so there is research out there and this is one of them yeah this is why I brought this one I thought it was very like it I love it don't bark at me Blair I can have a different opinion in you barky Blair if you're interested in a twist shirt or other item of our merchandise head over to twist.org and click on that Zazzle link and browse our store there are a lot of fun items for you that will help us all right I have a story let's take some psychedelics man all right yeah we should save that for the after show save that for the after show I really want to talk about psychedelics right now in a micro dose it's a micro dose of psychedelics and that's how I'm leading into my story micro dosing it has really become a popular trend among many people people purport that it makes them feel better about life makes them optimistic treats depression any number gets rid of anxiety any number of positive benefits from micro dosing psychedelics like mushrooms or LSD are used right now by people privately this is not anything that is prescribed or clinical yes that isn't it's not there yet but researchers are looking into the benefits and that's where this particular study got its start researchers in the UK because the United States is a bit more prudish about doing these kinds of studies researchers got they advertised they went through a big rigmarole to get permission to do this study rigmarole yes I said I said rigmarole so they were able to get their human study approved to get it allowed they had to find volunteers they got 1600 people by going on to reddit and other micro dosing websites to be able to find people who were micro dosing to volunteer for their study this great article in science in their news section says eventually garnered more than 1600 signups but once potential participants realized they'd have to procure their own psychedelics interest ed that's very funny so they ended up with 246 people in the experiment oh jeez that's quite a cut huge cut in the number of people the interesting aspect can you just tell me the names who hooked me up with two or three of the people who stayed in the experiment then I might be able to join I'm just like one person away maybe two from being able to join this study that's right if you're curious about what micro dosing is I did gloss over that micro dosing is taking a micro dose a very small supposed to be subcognitively active dose it's supposed to be a dose that's small enough that you don't notice it people might say why would I take hallucinogens, psychedelics if they're not going to do anything but the idea is that it has beneficial effects to attention homeopathy it's not homeopathy they're not that small but they're not that big either however some people in this study do take doses that they're able to feel things so there's definite diversity and variance in the sizes of the doses that people take that they call micro so a few caveats to the study people had to go find their own psychedelics which means that they were not standardized a dose of mushrooms for one person isn't necessarily going to be the same dose of mushrooms for another person all the things so no standardization has been yet Justin and then for the approach that they used they had the volunteers in the study take capsules, gel caps and put active dose of whatever their drug of choice was versus an inactive dose of something say sugar just giving themselves a sugar pill then they were supposed to make the gel caps way approximately the same these were opaque gel caps so that the person taking them even though they filled them themselves could not tell what was inside the gel caps and in the process at one point they realized that people were having mushroom burps from their mushroom micro doses and so they said well maybe you should put some dried shiitakes in that other gel cap instead of sugar so they did figure out how to control for some of the issues in the study but not all of them so they had self controlled gel caps that basically self blinding procedure in which they had people put their gel caps that had been filled of active and inactive doses in envelopes and then they had them tag these envelopes with QR codes that they got from the study website and then they would shuffle the envelopes and take different envelopes take a picture of the QR code and then they would do an app on the data collection side for the scientists so the scientists knew which doses people were getting whether they were active or inactive but people volunteering did not necessarily know whether they were taking an active dose except in some cases because people's doses are bigger than micro apparently and the bottom line is through all of this 56 odd people that they were working with on their self blinding procedure of mushroom burps and whatnot they discovered that micro dosing leads to the exact same reported feelings of well-being as placebo so the conclusion of this study is that micro dosing doesn't work but giving yourself something does because across the board the people in the trial who were micro dosing they all reported improvement in their sense of well-being that sounds like self care to me you took a moment you took your multivitamin you put on your exfoliating mask it's creating a mindfulness like exercise for yourself like you're doing something good for your emotional mental well-being and there have been studies that have shown that even if people know they are taking a placebo in this case people did not know they were taking a placebo or not but there are studies that show that if you know you're taking a placebo it can still have a beneficial effect similar to the drug so I'm thinking now I need to go make myself a whole bunch of gel caps of nothing and just take one every day and tell myself I'm micro dosing and I'm gonna feel great well it says something else though that I think is important and maybe a little bit alarming in that we had all these people basically hand raise and say I would like to be part of a psychedelic study but found acquiring psychedelics not to be cheap and readily accessible so something has changed since I was a teenager and that that might be the real thing that this study is revealing is that we have a psychedelic shortage in this country well I think to really truly know you know I mean to state the obvious you have to standardize right to do this study or it's on the same dose of the same thing and you can't use it in the same way like Kiki was saying the experiences and the biochemistry and the brain chemistry that takes place and the way they affect people are so different that even trying to have a generalized like attempting to give a dose that has some type of effect is going to be very different than a lot of other pharmaceutical interactions that people go through because it's psychedelic you're talking about jumping into the brain frames of human being and make it all wobbly wobbly some people can ride that wave man and some people just come crashing down or just sink to the bottom right away it's like there's a whole lot of variety that takes place there is a whole lot of variety that takes place and when it's something that changes the way people interact with the world around them with reality in a way that it substantially shifts it it's not the same as oh my liver metabolism is faster than somebody else's an NSAID or an aspirin doesn't work as long on me as somebody else it's a completely yeah it makes the study harder it makes being like justin said the homogenized dose standardized dose it makes it harder to give that out and to know what that dose is going to do yeah but I found it very interesting primarily that not that oh micro dosing doesn't work but that it was a placebo effect and they're going to look at this further they're going to try and do pharmaceutical grade psychedelics if they can get approval for that at some point to be able to standardize doses and try with cannabidiol and other substances that people use for various things they're going to move this study along and see what happens but in the meantime it's not good news for micro dosing as micro dosing but in terms of as you said Blair self care a possible way to placebo dose yourself into I'm in a micro placebo dose myself into a general sense of well-being that might work yeah I don't really know how those drugs work anyway like it's more about making you do a lot of work fun fun terror interest terror fun terror like there's like a roller coaster the proper well the not micro dosing is different micro dosing is not supposed to be any of that micro dosing is supposed to be sub active you got to do some like serious mental therapy on destroying the universe and rebuilding it every like 45 minutes or so to really get the beneficial afterglow effects of one of these hardcore psychedelics you can't tiptoe it doesn't work that way can't tiptoe can't tiptoe I had other stories that I wanted to talk about tonight but hey this show is going on so we are not going to talk about these stories you're just going to have to wonder what other science was there and then come back again next week because I think have we come to the end of the show I think we may have I think we may have come to the end of the show I really want to say thank you all for joining us tonight I need to say thank you specifically to the people who help with the show Fada thank you so much for your help with show notes and social media Rachel thank you for your assistance Gord thank you for chat room help and identity for thank you for recording the show and I can share this screen as fast as the internet will work da da da da thank you to our patreon sponsors thank you too thank you thank you just search for this weekend science where podcasts are found if you enjoy the show get your friends to subscribe as well for more information on anything you've heard here today show notes and links to stories will be available on our website www.twist.org and you can also sign up for our newsletter you can also contact us directly email Kirsten at kirsten at thisweekandscience.com Justin at twistmeaning at gmail.com or me Blair at BlairBaz at twist.org just be sure to put twist T-W-I-S in the subject line or your email will be spam filtered in the live volcano you can also hit us up on the twitter where we are at twist science twist science it's not 2S is in the middle that's all you gotta know at twist science Jackson Fly and at Blair's Menagerie we love your feedback if there's a topic you would like us to cover or address a suggestion for an interview a haiku that comes to you tonight please let us know we'll be back here next week and we hope you'll join us again for more great science news and if you've learned anything from the show remember it's all in your head this weekend science this weekend science it's the end of the world so I'm setting up shop got my banner unfurled it says the scientist is in I'm gonna sell my advice show them how to stop the robots with a simple device I'll reverse global warming with a wave of my hand and all it'll cost you is a couple of grand this week science is coming your way so everybody listen to what I say I use the scientific method and I'll broadcast my opinion all alliance this weekend science this weekend science science this weekend science this weekend science science I've got one disclaimer and it shouldn't be news that what I say may not represent your views but I've done calculations and I've got a plan if you listen to the science you may just get understand that we're not trying to threaten your philosophy we're just trying to sting we say and if you use our methods that are a weekend science this weekend science this weekend science science this weekend science this weekend science this weekend science science a laundry list of items I want to address from stopping global hunger to dredging Loch Ness I'm trying to promote more rational thought and I'll try to answer any question you've got so how can I ever see the changes I seek when I can only set up shop one hour of weekend science is coming your way so listen to what we say and this weekend science science science this weekend science this weekend science science science this weekend science this weekend science this weekend science Blair what is that? It's a virtual lava lamp Yeah I was like it's 2021 I feel like this might exist but it does it's a thing and it is good love it love the lava it's very cool hey you're yawning it's late and we kept going and going and editing is going to be fun I wanted to talk to Justin he used to get back I wanted to talk to him about the color contact lens what was the situation from last week? oh yes it was gold nanoparticles that were coating the surface of contact lenses sounds like it hurts that was my question I was like well does it affect the surface of the contact lenses so that it changes the way the contacts wear because contacts used to be really hard people's eyes a lot and they would be bad at the start of the pandemic I tried to use hard contact lenses and my eyes completely rejected them he was like no I spent like 6 months trying to make the hard contacts work and it just my eyes could not handle it I could only make it a couple hours before it was like all I could think about was how painful they were wait what did we talk about? the the color vision contact lenses that you brought last week that I made they're not the ones that you tried that was the problem with those ones and it was widely reported and widely rejected those contact lenses these ones they're infusing the galed nanoparticles into the already used materials goodbye Steven so it is contact lenses? it's the contact lens material they're actually contact lenses that have been infused as opposed to a whole new material we're gonna make contact lenses out of and maybe that'll work so that's actually why they engaged in that research because they're like hey we can make a better thing than what was tried so this is the thing too I know you asked too why don't I just wear them all the time the color blindness sunglasses? I know it makes sense because they totally obliviated over the fact that you might need corrected vision that's why I don't wear sunglasses on the show so first of all you have to be able to read I wear contacts right so I could wear the sunglasses all the time and I do wear them a lot but there's two things so one of course is that they're sunglasses so it has to be bright out even the ones that are for indoors it turns everything kind of reddish and it's still darker it still makes it darker right so that's what's cool about these contacts is I guess that would mean like it doesn't actually impact how bright things are it was a very interesting strategy because it attacked the overlap frequencies of I think it was red and green so it'll just eliminates the intersections where they will blur together which creates more contrast yeah and so then the other reason of course that I don't wear the color blindness sunglasses all the time is that they're really valuable so I just I try to not wear them if I'm like going to do yard work or going on a hike or something bad's going to happen to them potentially don't take them camping but yeah but that's when you could see all the beautiful colors of nature maybe I'll bring them camping but I won't wear them the whole time just bring like a oh I don't have one handy I've got like a couple I can give you a little it's a little hard box that you can put glasses in that you can get them anywhere probably but these ones are specifically they're not just like the little leather bound containers but it's like a reinforced cardboard box the whole thing slides into the issue is my face I always lose glasses not on my face I tend to lose them everywhere else they get crushed squished smashed leave them in a jacket pocket forget that they're there stuff like that happens all the time yeah anyway it's awful when they're just on top of your head and you're like where are they or what happens to me because I have the curly hairs is they always get caught in my hair but yeah no I would be so excited to try some color blindness context would be very cool I doubt I doubt I doubt it'll be soon that not only would they make prescription context that have that but also for an astigmatism hello did you guys catch Barba Sharma's comment in the chat room which I wiped my hands dry just the type that I was actually doing dishes how many people listen to twists while doing dishes I mean it would be pretty funny if we did twist while doing dishes I always wanted to do I have the I might have the ability to do this right now players just enjoying I've always wanted to do the bathtub show where I'm like oh hey is it showtime I totally forgot and there's like big bubbles up to like right I could have done that when I had my bat remember when there was the bathtub in my office yes I just I just saw that memory recently when I stood in the bathtub that's probably where I got the idea I think that's probably where I got the idea for wanting to do that someday we should just do it poolside once coronavirus is over then we can just poolside I'll be like I don't care about science just give me this pool yeah I could do I could do a poolside I could do poolside cabana podcast rent the cabana the cabana cast yeah but that's right the science cabana cast I love this kaleidoscope I'm into it I like kaleidoscopes I love it bath time with twist says thunder beaver yep we need to have geology stories huh noodles is usually washing dishes in the first 20 minutes of twist finishing up in the kitchen I wash dishes to podcasts I walk my dog to podcasts the last two days I have gone into my kitchen to make dinner and I'm like I should put on a podcast but instead of putting on a podcast because that would take effort of me going into my phone and finding the app and then finding a podcast and listen to it it's just too much stuff I have just I've started making up improv musicals that are snark about my family oh good it's like yeah it's my my dinner time snark musical theater timid tenor is asking for fractals please I think you're in it there with this kaleidoscope it's getting on there more fractals yeah more fractales science with a pineapple that was as long as if that pineapple has to do with a fruity drink in that cabana then we're talking at some point apparently ooh big news in Oregon there is chatter that there may be enough vaccine doses for adults 18 over by April 21st oh wow that's soon which is really soon and I am I've got my fingers crossed that that's when they will start calling a broader distribution of age groups and people to get vaccines I think they're going to be getting a lot of the johnson and johnson which one dose part of me would kind of like the big protection of the maderna or the Pfizer but I don't know the last protection early trial and emergency authorization everything was looking good and what we found from the other ones actually is that with time they all improved there's even some question about whether the second shot for those are even really necessary because it does seem so I'll say I'll say it is better with the second shot you get there faster yeah however if you didn't get there faster you might still get there eventually because your body is still over over time yeah I am excited the reason I bring it up though is that that means potentially faster ability to hang out with other vaccinated people go visit my dad go come to california where the twist team will hopefully be vaccinated by then maybe there will be maybe there will be a california twist meetup for us jg asks when do you think they can start vaccinating school children you know what they still need to do the the trials on that the part of that too is that there is something really awful about this generation what it's like kids last kids that you have last put you last what's all this talking about oh but for the children stop it you know I really think we got the order backwards and I say this I say this as somebody way further towards the 65 an overgroup then I would the 5 an overgroup or whatever you also don't you have a pre-existing condition yeah but it's still like everybody else is going to have it before anybody with pre-existing condition in california you can get it right now no you can't that's not true that's not true it's a week away still that's what I mean though you can sign up for a slot right now no you can't not everywhere you can call later is what I've heard okay there are some sites where you can right now by the time they open that up everybody else will be on the list too but then kids will still not be on the list like start with the people who have the most to lose and then go up work your way up well so I mean and I think that's like the big debate right is that the decision was made the decision was made to attack the or to like to provide for those who are most likely to die yeah versus your which is the most to lose right so they're just different factors to look at but I can tell you from anecdotal evidence that's not how it's really rolled out yeah of course not it hasn't at all well especially because people of color are more likely to die and they are the least vaccinated I think right now yeah there's some states where it has actually been distributed along political lines there are places where not just political lines but financial donation lines yeah not to mention for some reason in California famous people are interestingly getting an early there's the Hollywood perspective which I think we talked about at one point which is the maybe if famous people show themselves getting this is the the public relations part of it which is if famous people aren't afraid to get vaccinated maybe they can help convince other people to get vaccinated I really believe that more so it would be appropriate for some like a podcast that is constantly talking about science information the public should have been the first right yeah but yeah everybody's making their case for it we're going to get past it and then everybody's going to forget that there is a massive injustice in the way this whole thing happened which is why they aren't having any qualms about doing it that way right well and we're not going to like take time to reflect and learn from this either which this is not going to be the last pandemic of any of our lives probably you're right although there is that I don't like that story put that story away Blair you know it might not be this drag though it's true I know it's true but there's also something interesting that somebody was going back and looking at post Spanish flu which was was it Kentucky Kansas flu it was really where the word originated Nebraska something like that Burnside did a chicken farm or something like this is where it actually but once that thing had rolled through and kind of ebbed away nobody talked about it nobody wanted to remember it nobody wanted to discuss it everybody had experienced so much loss and so much grief over it that it like disappeared from there's not songs and remembrance there's not stories during the pandemic this is the just like we're just going to move on and forget this ever happened I hope that doesn't happen I think that that would be a major disservice to human the human population of the entire planet that we need to take this as a learning experience and I think the people who are pushing for changes in our manufacturing and procurement pathways are that's going to be very important where are we going to get masks made where are we going to get things from like make sure that shortages don't happen in the same way what about essential personnel how do we make sure to bolster the systems that are important so that they don't go offline during during the next pandemic I mean there are so many points at which the complex system can fail but yeah if we if we continue to to tell the stories but we continue to tell the stories hold on I think my headphones so okay so picture any release from netflix any movie that's been out that's happened during this pandemic where everybody wore masks yeah that didn't happen but you know what we're not going to tell the story because it's nobody's comfortable with it nobody likes to see it I don't know a documentary about 2020 that was on netflix that was a big thing that everybody watched there have been there are documentaries there are movies there are there's an entire history from this past year of people writing youtube song parodies related to the pandemic and to covid there are you know there are plays that people have put on the you know the social media aspect the online aspect it is people have done so much to entertain and maintain ourselves that it's there and that history is there and I I definitely can understand the that was hard let's get past that right now that meant that mental break but I I think the one one of the things that we're learning there are some diseases that are having a huge downturn because people are not mixing as much the flu is not is not being seen just about anywhere you know like the cases deaths from the flu are way way down not just because people are wearing masks and the flu is droplet based and not airborne like covid which is a big aspect but also people are not traveling on airplanes as much people are not traveling around the world as much we're not the people that would bring it from southeast Asia to Europe or North America you know or from Australia from the northern hem from the southern hemisphere to the northern hemisphere aren't doing the same amount of travel so the probability is lower of any virus making it anywhere and so which I did predict would be the silver lining of this whole thing we have a drop off of so many of these other diseases and when there was some like what was it there was like a polio like thing that was starting to break out and now there's like it's gone don't worry about it like there was a bunch of like up next coming like oh the thing forget it it's gone so one of the things that that defines what a millennial is or oh no it's what an old millennial versus a young millennial is is whether you remember 9-11 and I think that you know there's lots of conversations when you talk about what defines generations about this is going to be a corona generation yes so that's what I'm saying is that this is going to be like think about kids think about how kids spent a year inside this is not it's not going to be forgotten easily I really don't think I think it's going to be a watermark that exists in all of us because also think about the giant farm of memes that were created this year in social media right this is going to be a parameter this is going to be a parameter that people are going to hold things to in the future like this is bad but it's not 2020 bad you know like I think that in terms of policy Justin I think there is a real possibility for the powers that be to kind of push this under a rug and talk about the next big thing but I think societally I think it's going to stick around I think so and like I was saying I hope so because if people continue to wear masks because they see that not year round but when they're sick when they have a sniffle and they go out to the grocery store to help prevent spreading disease and if it's not looked on as a weird thing to have a mask on because we're so used to it that perhaps that can help reduce the spread of a lot of colds and flus and and viruses in general I mean I think that would be great I mean I don't think we have to get used to wearing them all the time forever I don't think that's the way it's going to be at all we'll go back to normal but there are situations I bet you there are people who adopt it who are like that was good great idea in winter I feel like especially like when it's really cold I'm going to cover my face because that felt really nice it felt nice for your teeth to not get super cold when it was really cold out it's nice to have that little windshield it is nice it also is really there also is something to like I'm running to the store I'm not wearing makeup I haven't showered I'm going to put on sunglasses and a mask and no one will know who I am that's so good that was so good I will I think miss that just the anonymity of it pretty cool but yeah everybody has these fun masks now might as well use them when you're not feeling well exactly and when you're having another anarchist uprising you can always wear them to avoid facial recognition software also also next time you're going to have an insurrection not only is it advised not to publish on social media while you're doing it but also leave your phone to home and wear a mask fun tips no no no live stream the whole time please we want to see we want to see what you're up to will you do so many likes I love the likes I have to live stream everything I'm going to turn this off because I'm going to I'm going to fall asleep it was really good it was good thank you for sharing those wonderful kaleidoscopes lava lamps that was fun I think we had a great conversation this was a lot of fun we had a wonderful interview and it's getting a little bit late right now we've had some good after show conversation right is there anything else we need darn it I didn't tell people to remember April 17 oh yeah what happens April 17 daily tech news show and this weekend science crossover so question that's right aren't we supposed to ask our audience to provide us a subject a question a suggestion from the audience suggestions from the audience a science a genre audience you who are watching this now I see you by the way where's Carol where's Carol Ann she hasn't been here for a couple of weeks but where what should we talk about what should we talk about not right now TNS times twist times DTNS this daily we can news science tech show yes that did do we need a subject we're supposed to bring a subject from our audience who's like we really want you to talk about this subject more than anything else it could be anything it could be anything it could be Neanderthals it could be I mean either of those would be fine so just pick one and let us know April 17th 4 p.m. pacific time mRNA testing CRISPR applications great sexual orientation science remote control cockroaches what remote control cockroaches actually you know what would be kind of actually Gaurav Sharma says sexual orientation science there is an intersection of that that I find really intriguing that does need to get talked about more than it has which was Turing who essentially helped win World War II by cracking the codes it's the subject of I think Russell Crow played him in beautiful mind and the story has been he was suffered from mental illness and bipolar disorder and that's what led to his eventual demise that's how it's been portrayed largely over years but as we were talking about I was talking about a week or two ago or disclaimer there was bipolar disorder is where you put people with gender dysmorphia the thing that one of the greatest scientists we could have had the dot-com boom in the 60s if this man had stayed alive he was there inventing the computer he was doing it then and everyone who computer science always looks back to Turing and goes wow here's the underpinnings of everything that we're doing now and he was working for the government and he was was it Ben did a cover match he's been in a lot of things he's also a dragon who can keep track penguin hanglings geniuses and an American hero and an American war hero in that sense that he helped turn the tide broke the code and we could eavesdrop on the enemy and was persecuted somewhat internally because of the great sin of perhaps being a homosexual being a gay man in the 40s was enough for him to the pressures of that were enough for him to commit suicide and we lost one of the greatest minds and patriots this nation's ever had and who we had at a pivotal moment in history which may have turned the balance in the outcome of world war 2 and the reason he's dead is because the 40s was ignorant of the actual orientation science so I would love to we could absolutely I got the wrong one that was Nash was the beautiful mind so I got the wrong one okay but there are other movies about touring but now I'm wondering did I mess up completely your whole story yeah I might have well we'll figure it out in post for the after show beautiful mind touring I have a whole book about touring around here somewhere yeah well he could yes suicide touring okay so it is a touring story yes yes Nash was also very but he was not that was the beautiful mind story combining the two I combined the two narratives into one in my misremembering because I don't I guess I still don't know who Nash is properly I didn't see the movie it's okay it's point being just let people be people but touring there was diagnosing him as being bipolar which is where they put the category of everybody who was gender dysmorphia or just gay at the time because it was unacceptable come on where would you want love who you love use whatever pronouns you need alright you're slurring Blair I think it's time for you to say good night Blair I think it's time for you to say good night Blair say good night Blair say good night Blair good night Blair say good night Justin good night Justin good good night Kiki no oh yeah I was supposed to say the words too alright we're trying again on a count of three one two three good night Kiki good night everyone thank you for joining us for another episode of this week in science it is always a joy to have you here with us and we get to talk about science which makes me feel better every week I know that I'm gonna come have a fun conversation and have fun with friends so thank you very much and I look forward to seeing you again next week and the week after that and the week after that and the week after that except I don't know maybe I'll take a vacation someday I don't know I don't know but it's time for us to go to bed because we're yawning and it's sleepy time um this weekend save a spider and eat some pie oh yeah did I put that in the notes you did I did and I totally forgot to read it because I put it behind something and I didn't read everything thank you for bringing that up Blair corn yes don't forget I'm gonna scroll down to the bottom nope wrong page scroll down to the bottom as we say good night and remind you all that yes in my notes pie day is this weekend eat pie not spider pie save a spider because it's save a spider day and it's daylight savings time so next week is it really oh man we're gonna be super tired next week is it the spring forward spring forward that's good for some acts are bad I don't know you lose an hour sleep yeah spring forward makes everyone tired it's like jet lag no yeah it's bad okay it's the jet it's the jet lag one um but if you are going to celebrate pie day daylight savings and save a spider day send us a picture have you celebrating all three at the same time that would be fun eat a pie with a spider it's a challenge yeah I challenge you do a triple threat holiday weekend okay I need to go now I might start singing snarky musicals pretty soon we're not careful I'm still annoyed by the fact that it's not spring back because if you compresses spring it springs back you can also fall forward though it's the problem you can fall forward just as easily yeah you could but I like thinking that it's like oh it's my trust fall yeah like you're falling backwards into a pile of leaves if you're in the united states it's not for everyone if you're over in Europe you're still not going to be on daylight savings time for like two more weeks but anyway anyway it's all fake it's all fake and wouldn't it be great if we could just stay on standard time can we all just be on just one time can we all just be on GMT whatever it is yeah we have a global economy now like why why not do this and then I could just say that my whatever time it is in GMT I'd be like I'm awake from 1400 to 1700 I'm only awake for three hours alright alright goodnight everyone thanks for joining us