 Jimmy K here, Metal Voice. Look at this. The Metal Voice shirts are now on sale. Just go to the video description to find out on how you can purchase one. Metal! Welcome to the Metal Voice today. Great guest. You've never been on the show, the Metal Voice. It's Richie Cotson. Am I pronouncing your name right Cotson? Cotson, yeah, there you go. Cotson, K-O-T-Z-E-M. Richie with no T-R-I-C-H-I-E. All right, good stuff. March 26th, the debut album by Smith and Cotson on BMG. Very exciting stuff. Right off the bat, I'm sure you've been asked this question like, you know, so many times now, but for the people who watch this show, tell me about how you and Adrian met and whose idea was it to put together this, this great new album. Well, we met years ago. Now, actually, I met Natalie, his wife, first, and that's how I met Adrian. We were out one night, me and a friend, and... Just to interrupt you one sec, just so you know, Natalie's actually from Montreal. I'm from Montreal, so she's local here. That's right. So yeah, so my friend was talking to her and then said, you know, I play the guitar, this and that, and then she said that her husband played the guitar in a band, and then she said it was Adrian Smith from Iron Maiden. So I, you know, I got all excited because I'm a huge Maiden fan. I mean, that was one of my first concerts when I was a kid was Iron Maiden. Just saw them in the Allentown, Pennsylvania, on the peace of mind tour. And so I saw a man, I said, I got to meet Adrian. And she said, well, he's coming to town. You know, when he gets here, we'll set something up. And so I ended up, you know, they would have these like holiday parties. You know, they have a house out in the LA, not too far from where I live. And so we get to have these get-togethers and there's a room there where all the guitars are and the amps. And it would turn into a jam session. And my wife Julia would be there playing the bass and, you know, we'd switch instruments and just play covers. And it was always just a great time. And in more recent times, one of these times, Nally said that, you know, you and Adrian should try and try and write something together. We're both sitting around. I wasn't touring. He was here. And so yeah, it's a great idea. So we got together and thought, well, this might be interesting. And then one thing led to another. And we thought, well, let's go, let's go make a record. And now here we got this album that for me, I'm really excited about this. It reminds me of one of those classic rock albums that I would have had back in the day. You know, I would have been playing my Ozzy record or my Scorpions record and then just pop this one on. And it just kind of brings me back to an era when people made records, you know, like actually playing real instruments and guitar forward, you know, guitar driven rock albums. So I'm really happy with what we did. If you were to describe the musical direction, okay, rock, hard rock, I mean, what would you say the musical direction for the people out there who've never heard anything? You know, I think this record goes down that kind of, it's like a classic rock record, but you know, or a harder rock thing, you know, I mean, I hate kind of comparing music and bands because I think when you listen to music, you know, music's meant to be listened to not described with words. But I just think it falls into a, you know, a classic rock vein, maybe a little heavier, you know, a little on the heavier side, definitely blues driven. You know, I think that's kind of a common ground with Adrian and I that we, you know, Adrian loves the blues and knows a lot about blues. I grew up outside of Philadelphia. And so I was exposed to a lot of traditional R&B and soul music, like the first concert I ever saw with Stevie Wonder. And then right after that was George Benson. So I have that kind of influence, you know, from when I was a young boy, you know, but at the same time, I like the hard rock stuff like the who and, and all those bands from that era, which, you know, Adrian and I always talk about Paul Rogers being one of our favorite singers. So we have a lot in common musically. And then there's a little bit of an outside thing where he has the experience of being in a band with multiple guitar players. That changes things a little bit. You know, I kind of come from a little bit of a fusion background from when I was playing with Stanley Clark and some other guys like that. So, you know, I just think we kind of have a nice blend, you know, there's enough common ground there. And then there's enough uniqueness there to make something really cool. Yeah, I agree. Did you ever like come up to him saying, look, listen to this maiden riff I came up with and try to deviate that way? No, no, I don't know. No, no, you know, basically, we are just two guys in a room just kind of, you know, playing ideas and riffs. And, you know, Adrian would come in with something and I've got this idea and then I'd immediately, you know, set up a template, put a click track up and basically what would happen is, I'll give you a really good story. Adrian came in the studio one day with that riff to take in my chances with that opening riff. And I said, well, that's a hot riff. We need something like that on the album. So I put up a click track and I said, let's try and experiment. I'm going to get behind the drum set. And you're going to play play with me like we were kids, you know, in a garage, we're just going to jam that riff. I'll record everything we do. And then we'll play that riff for a few rounds. And then I'll go off into a different thing. And just follow me. You follow where I go. And then I'll always come back to that riff, you know, and then we'll just do it again and see what happens. So I hit record, I'm going to count it off and we start jamming it. And I recorded everything. And so in the end, some of that very first recording ended up as part of the song, like part of that groove and part of that guitar riff. And then from there, you know, we were able to come back and listen to it. So, okay, cool. That sounds like that could be a chorus, what we just did there. And then, you know, we wrote, you know, that way. So that was a different approach to writing a song. And then in some instances, you know, I'd have a concept for a lyric or a melody and we build chords around it. So it was just a real open kind of session, almost like a friendly tennis mask where you bounce, you know, try to get a volley going, you don't want to defeat anybody, but just kind of, you know, keep the ball in the air, so to speak. What about the lyrics? Did you go 50-50, or is it who was in more weight on you or more weight on him? Or how did that come out? No, I think it was pretty much an equal collaboration. I mean, it wasn't planned any one way or the other. But, you know, in general, there was certainly a small element involved of whoever thought of it would probably sing it. So for example, you know, Scars, you know, he's got that verse that he comes in with. And I remember he did that vocal. He initially did a rough pass. And then I said, well, let me try something for the pre-chorus. And I remember coming in just kind of freestyling, you know, that section. And then that led me to the chorus melody. And I know the lyric, you know, somehow that came out when I kind of started singing stuff. And suddenly, you know, the lyrics are there. And then other times, you know, I remember Adrian had Glory Road was a song that he had a concept for and had a chorus. I remember he left one night, and I was messing around. We had assembled the lyrics. And there was a melody that he had an idea for that I was trying to... There? I think I lost you. It really was a collaboration. I can say this. There was never a point where someone brought a song and they said, oh, I had this thing for years. Didn't know what to do with it. You know, everything, at least to my knowledge, that we did was a true collaboration. I know I didn't bring anything in that I had worked on previously. It was all stuff that we kind of worked on together. Cool. What was the most unexpected thing working with Adrian Smith? Or a surprise, or oh, wow, I didn't realize this. Well, I guess one of the things that I noticed that was a cool thing was that his ear for a harmony counterpoint and melody as a guitar player. And so there were a couple instances of some of these songs where I remember thinking, okay, we're done. Let's move on. And I said, oh, that sounds good. We're done with that. And he goes, wait a minute, I've got an idea here. Let me try something. And then he'd come up with these kind of counterpoint guitar parts that were very melodic, almost like a hook within themselves. And he's got one that he put in Taking My Chances and Scars has this cool call and answer thing. So his ability to hear that sort of secondary part, something that really struck me as something very special, which probably stems from years of being in a band with another guitar player. So I've always been in my endeavors, the only guitar player. So it's a different approach. So that was pretty cool. Did you have to like pinch yourself? Man, I'm doing an album with Adrian Smith. Wow, I can't believe this. Yeah, it hits me from time to time. When I look at this album, I got sitting here in my office and I look at the cover and his name and my name. And it's something real special for me, like I said, growing up. What tour did you see? What tour did you see Iron Maiden on? I saw them on Piece of Mind. Yeah, me too. Do you remember who opened up? Was it Coney Hatch or I can't remember who it was in the US? Fastway. Fastway, that's it. Yeah, it was a great tour. I saw that. It was amazing. Yeah. And there he is. What about Nico? So Nico plays on Solar Fire. What was your experience like with Nico? Well, that involved very interesting. At the point that that decision was made, we had a bunch of tracks that I had played drums on. And on that track, I had done like a basic loop. So we had something to write. And so we were overdubbing parts and figuring out choruses. Actually, it's very funny how that chorus happened. I was singing that melody. I do this all the time. A lot of guys do it when they write. And I was singing like phonetics, like not real words, but it sounded like it could have been words. But I was singing it with a proper tone in my voice. To get that melody going. Yeah, exactly. And then so Adrian heard it and said, oh, wow, it sounds like you're saying Solar Fire. I'm like, really? Well, what does that mean? And so we started talking about it. We came up with some lyrics, came up with a story. And we wrote those lyrics together. And so he said, you know, I could really hear Nico on this track. And then, of course, I said, well, that'd be great. That'd be excellent. So Nico came in and played on it. And just really, to me, just took it to another level. He has a style, you know, that identity and personality on the drums where he does a certain kind of fills that they're kind of like these machine gun fills that go right around the kit. And it's something that I don't, I can't really do it. And so, you know, he just kind of set it off. You know, that is what I'd say, just brought it to another level. So I was real happy and honored to have, you know, to be in a position to have him on the album. Did you meet him before? No, no, I didn't. Well, actually, casually, I met him when made and played Los Angeles. I was backstage and, you know, I met some of the guys, but no, no, not like a nothing really. Not like this. Hello. Was it file sharing where you put it together with Nico? Or did he actually come in and, you know, you work with him in the studio? No, in that instance, that was a sharing situation because he's got a spot down in Florida somewhere. And so that was a file situation. But all the other stuff, you know, Adrian and I were together for that. Yeah. Is he a funny guy, Nico? I was saying that again. Is he humorous? Is he funny? You know, he seems to be like a funny guy. Like I said, I wouldn't really know his personality because we sent him files, you know, I sent files to Florida or wherever he is. And then he sent them back. But the only time I met him was real brief backstage. So I don't really know. Okay. I thought maybe you talked on the phone, you're talking about the songs, but it's okay. How do you compare this album? Well, I don't know. How do you compare this music that you're doing with agent right now to sort of like the previous work you've done in the past? I know you said this is a hard rock, blues oriented, and it does sound a lot like that. Absolutely. But I mean, do you think you're sort of evolved into this direction? How does it compare to everything you've done in the past? Or maybe everything you've done in the past has led to this moment? Well, you know, there's definitely an argument to make that your past leads you to where you are now. I mean, obviously, you make decisions and you end up in a spot. Now, I'm lucky that I have a long history of working, you know, with great people. And obviously the bulk of my work, I'm working alone. But I have those spots where I've been able to do some collaborations here and there with people and pick up things, you know, learn stuff or whatever it is. So I think one of the things that makes this even work is the previous experience of, you know, it's like you get a certain kind of confidence. At the same time, you feel like you have less to really prove. So if you were coming into something like this, and you didn't have the experience, you might get caught up in how you're represented and worried about, you know, this guy did more solos than me or I'm not getting to show what I can really do. So all that stuff, that bullshit is not there because, you know, we've both done this long enough and been represented well. So, you know, for me, at no point did I think of any of that other than the song. That's the only thing that I really, really concerned myself with was is the song working? Does it make sense? Does it sound like a song? Is there a story there? Are we being represented artistically, you know, with the lyric? Does it make sense? You know, it was all about the song. And then once we knew and agreed that the components for the song were there and that they were working, that's when we get into the, you know, the fun stuff deciding, oh, we're going to play the strat here. I'm going to do something with the telecaster or, you know, whatever, all that other stuff. But, you know, I think the fact that we've made enough records in the past, you know, I personally feel like I've been well represented as far as who I am, as an artist, and what I do, especially after making 50 for 50. I mean, at that point, you know, I probably never make another record again, and not really worry about it. But, you know, I always have new ideas, so I'll probably always make records. But, you know, it was just really easy, real simple to make. Like you said, probably because of all that stuff that we've already done in the past. Yeah, that's good to know. Is it, and just on the last question, in regards to the Winery Dogs, is there any album you'll be working on in the future? Or is that, is that pretty much it? Well, that has kind of been left in a little bit of a limbo stage because a lot to do with the pandemic coming. We had done a tour in 2019, and I remember wanting to do that because, you know, we hadn't worked together in a while. There was, you know, talk of a new record, but we didn't have the timing together to really get in the room. So, we did do that tour, which was really fun, and we really did get along great. Not that we never did. We always do. But it was, I walked away from that tour with a really good feeling about the future of the band. And, you know, I knew they had plans with their other group that they have and tour dates. So, you know, pursued my 50 for 50 record and also knowing that Adrian and I were going to do something. So, in the back of my mind, with all that stuff going on, I figured at some point in 2020 that the three of us, the Winery Dogs, would get together and maybe throw some ideas around and do some writing. Because the reality is with that band, we have to be in the same room at the same time. Otherwise, it's not really the Winery Dog record. It becomes something else. So, you know, the pandemic kind of just messed everything up for us. And especially now, you've got, Mike is in Pennsylvania, Billy's in Nashville, I'm in California. So, you know, it makes it a little difficult. I'm not really ready to jump on an airplane just yet. But at some point, what I've been saying is that, you know, we did the first record at my house in California. We've done pre-production for tours and written a couple songs at Mike's house in Pennsylvania. So, maybe this time when the schedules line up, we can go down to Nashville and take over Billy's house and do some work down there. Did you get your vaccine ready to go? Well, I'm not ready yet. You got to let the people that really need it get it first. But as soon as I can get that, I'm going to do it. And, you know, I have a feeling that in order to do what we do, pretty soon, you know, they're going to make it that you have to have it. So, I have no objection to getting it. You know, we had a bout with COVID here. My wife tested positive, and then I ran out five, six days later and got a test, and I was negative. But then, no sooner than I got the test, I got sick with all the same symptoms. So, I can only assume that I had it as well. So, you know, I've been way sicker in my life, but it's not like that for everybody. See, this thing affects everybody differently, and that's why it's so fucking dangerous, you know. So, you know, I think people got to be responsible, and now that we know how serious it is, obviously, you know, got to do what you got to do to stay safe. I heard that one of these companies, though, has a pill that they're working on that, like if you get, if you, when you first get sick, I think it's Merck, they're one of these medical companies, if you take this pill, it'll knock it out of you. So, that would be great if that happens. Yeah, I haven't heard that, but who knows? Yeah. Yeah, Google it. It's there, yeah. It's a company called Merck, and that's a story that they're developing this pill. That's amazing. But, you know, I just want to get out there and play again. You know, I will say this, I found a way to enjoy the year off. I really did, you know, embrace it, and I liked being home and spending time at home. But now at this point, I'd like to get out there and play some shows. Actually, this is my last, last question. You can make it quick. If you play live, are you going to play in the Iron Maiden tunes, or is there maybe one song you go, I love this song I'd like to play? Yeah, you know, that's a good question. And that's something that we have to think about, because we only have nine songs on the album. And so, I would imagine probably what we'd do is play the entire album, maybe add in one or two covers, maybe just for fun, put in one or two covers that we would play at the jam sessions at Adrian's house, just to kind of tie it together. You know, here's where it started. And then, you know, maybe we do one of Adrian's songs from Maiden and maybe pick one of my songs for one of my records and put a set together. You know, it's something we've got to think about. I mean, you need time, right? You need to perform. You need performance time. I would think wasted years would be a good one for you and your voice. Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be the one. Write it down, take notes. All right. Yeah, I know. Well, hey, if we're out there and we're good, if we're out there and you hear us doing that, then you can take credit for that. I told him to do that. March 26. I've heard it. Sounds great. If you love hard rock and blues, classic rock, this is the album, Smith Cotsen. Thank you so much for being on the show and we will talk soon. All right, thank you. Bye.