 Peggy, I think you mentioned you deal with copyright at UCSF. Could you go into that? And Karen, how long does the library tour take? And which floor do we get off on to come take it? I'll answer the short question first. The tour is about 45 minutes, depending on how large the group is, and their level of interest in historical matters. And you start at the third floor. Yeah, about four years ago, they asked me to take on the role of copyright librarian. I knew nothing about copyright. I took a course at University of Maryland University College online on copyright administration and management. And it was about a four month long online course. So I answer questions for faculty mostly. I put resources together for people. We did offer MOOCs for a couple years. And for the MOOCs, I worked with instructional designers and would review faculty slides to make sure that they weren't doing any flagrant copyright violation, discussed issues if there were potential copyright violation. And we have an MS Hale program. We have one program that's completely online. They asked me a lot of copyright questions. So it's just one of those naturally evolving things just because of the digitization of information that copyright is a lot more in the forefront and also open access. So we want to get people to maintain their own copyrights as well before signing their articles away to a publisher. Peggy, I deal a lot with STEM faculty and whatnot at San Francisco State. And can you tell me about the archiving for taxpayer paid research? Oh, NIH. OK, so in 2008, a law was passed that if a scientist gets money from the government for their research and they write an article based on that research, that article has to be made available to the public. And so most of these articles are being deposited into a repository called PubMed Central. It is a process. There's A, B, C, or D. There's four methods to get the publication into the repository. And sometimes the publisher does it. Sometimes the grant person does it. But two years ago, what happened is they noticed that they only had 75% compliant. So what they do now is if you get a grant, you get some of the money. And then when you submit your progress report, if you have non-compliant publications, they get flagged. And they don't send you your money. So this has made the researchers very compliant. Because when they have a $13 million grant and they're not going to get the money because this paper is not in PubMed Central, they move on getting that paper put in PubMed Central. So yeah, it is an issue. We have another librarian who mostly handles it. But I back her up so I know a little bit about this process and dealing with several government agencies at once. And they're all kind of not intuitive. And their websites are not that great. So it's always fun and a challenge. Thank you. Any other questions? OK. I'm Ruth Amronik from San Francisco Public Library. And I wanted to find out, Mark, how we get in touch with you and also that we do have some parallel questions. We have different people who are looking into different kinds of malpractice. And sometimes the organization, like the veterinary organization, is not there to help the consumer but to help the veterinarians keep their licenses. And the other thing was you talked about Gene working on a project for high-tech communities. And we've gotten questions about people who want to escape the high-tech communities. And this would be really important for us to find out more. Well, I don't know if that's a question other than help. I mean, since we rely on the government information center so much, call us. I'll give you my card later. And feel free to call us. We can talk together. There was another question here? My name's Chris Metz and I work at Stanford University. I have a question for Mark. Has a corporation ever been charged with murdering California? Manslaughter, yes. But no, not murder. I was intrigued by that. That's a good question. Hi, Mark Estes. Thanks, Mark. The Mechanics Institute origin as adult continuing education, self-initiated. So we had all these minors figure out that it was an important thing to do in the early 1850s. Yes. Why aren't factory workers doing that themselves now? Good question. There are a lot more educational opportunities open now. There's City College, University of California. None of that existed in Gold Rush, California. So pretty much if you wanted to pick up a new skill of some kind, you went to the Mechanics Institute. And that would be, it was the only place for about 30 years in California for an adult to pick up something new. So they did. We offered all kinds of drawing, so architectural drawing, perspective drawing, line drawing. You could pick up a new language. You could learn advanced mathematics, all sorts of more technical skills that were in demand in order to help build the state by business owners. Business owners were looking for people who had concrete skills. So that's what we attempted to provide. Thank you. Can I chime in on that one? Because I'm a Gold Rush scholar. The Mechanics Institute, she had a picture of Mifflin Gibbs, who is a major African-American figure, businessman, political activist. And there was an African-American library established during the Gold Rush that was called the Athenaeum. And that he was one of the founding members of the Mechanics says a lot, because he was basically the West Coast dealer in fine boots and shoes. That was his business. But the Athenaeum was a major resource for African-Americans to learn about artisan skills and mechanics skills. So it's a very important Gold Rush connection. There's one in the back. Oh, sorry. Terrin, I was wondering, what is the current role of the Mechanics Institute today? And since the topic was a day in the life of a special librarian there, what do you do there specifically? The role of the Mechanics Institute is to carry on its mission, which is to be a library, an educational center, and a chess club. So we carry on. We have 4,700 members from all walks of life, about a third of them live or work in the financial district. But they come from our membership, comes from all the surrounding counties. A day of my working life is I serve on the reference desk. I do talks like this. I host the tours that we have every Wednesday. I and my colleagues lead over 700 people a year through the Institute. Yeah, my official title is Librarian and Strategic Partnerships Manager, which means that I make friends with the community and see how Mechanics Institute and various like organizations can work together to improve both of our futures. Again, on the Mechanics Institute, I was wondering, you mentioned back in the 1800s, the variety of courses, I was wondering where the instructors came from. Was it just a collective pooling of everyone's knowledge, or were they recruited from wherever? The instructors came from the community. And also we had a relationship with the University of California at Berkeley. So a lot of folks who have streets named after them in Berkeley, like Professor Hillgard, Professor Davidson, the Laconte brothers, they would come and offer classes in the sciences, in the evenings, that were open to UC Berkeley students and also to the public. But if we were looking for a drawing teacher, we would just advertise. Terry, could you say a little about the International Conference of Mechanics Institute Libraries that's gonna be happening in November? Of course. So Mechanics Institutes are all over the world and the San Francisco Mechanics is hosting a conference for them. It's called Reinvention. And directors of Mechanics Institutes, independent libraries across the world will be coming in November to converge and talk about ways to thrive in the 21st century. November 4th, 5th, and 6th. Hi, this question's for Peggy. I recall a few years ago, I don't remember exactly which institution this was, but there was a clinical study where they ran into some problems because their literature search had been incomplete and they apparently hadn't used a librarian. This was Hopkins. And they had some problems as a result. Yeah, this was Hopkins and it was quite a while ago, probably over 10 years ago. And they had a clinical, they had a research study and they had not done a thorough literature review. They had not involved a librarian and essentially patients died because they hadn't looked the drug up in the literature and seen some of the effects of it. When it came out that they had missed like this important thing in the literature and patients had died before they closed the study, you know, it was a really bad thing. Hopkins got a lot of their research money pulled. They, I mean, they suffered financially. Now Hopkins, this is interesting though. Hopkins has 13 like clinical librarians who work with every single area. There's not a research study that goes on there that the librarians aren't involved in. So it changed the way they saw their library and they began putting money into actually hiring more librarian positions and getting them active to assist with these kind of tricky searches because sometimes they're tricky, yeah. If it's the same one, it's because the person who did the literature search only did the electronic, never went to paper. Well, it wasn't even that. It was in, they just didn't go back in the literature. They weren't thorough and they only looked at like the last five years of something that actually this drug had been used for a long time for other things and they should have known that it could, that it had these potential effects. So part of my question really was what kind of training or background did you have when you got into this? Because that's a lot of responsibility. Well, I mean, for me, I became a medical librarian and I graduated from UC Berkeley in 1986. And then I spent a year at the National Library of Medicine in a fellowship program, which gave me a pretty strong foundation and all of those resources and databases. And then the rest, I worked in hospital libraries for eight years. I've had a strong systems background. I've been at UCSF since 98. I've taken courses in evidence-based medicine. So I always feel like I love my job. I get paid to learn new things. The job I'm doing now is not, I never would have thought I'd be doing copyright. I mean, I constantly am paid to learn new things. And if you're working in the science, you're gonna be learning new things because there's constant discovery. There's new databases, there's new resources, there's new tools, there's new medical materials. I think you're gonna see the way they treat cancer is gonna change dramatically in the next five to 10 years. Hi, I'm Sarah Hill and I'm a current student at the Information School at San Jose State. And I'm really interested in maybe if each of you could talk about someone who was recently hired at each of your institutions or libraries and what kind of experience or education that they're coming in. Like if they're specializing before they get in or if it's more general. Sort of who goes first up there? You were talking about a new librarian. Okay, many of our librarians have worked at the Mechanics Institute as library assistants when they were getting their master's degree. But I would say that of the most recent hire. And her background was she'd worked in bookstores and libraries as a library assistant, SFPL and was curious to know more. So she started going to library school concurrently with her employment with us. Yeah, so she was already groomed. Well, I work with most of the library school students that I work with directly are archive students. And one of the things that I've noticed that would be a real strength is to work and there was a theme in my talk is relationship building because so much of the San Jose State program is online. You don't get that connection with the public, whatever your specialty is. So I would advise that whatever your interest, you immerse yourself in experiences related to what you wanna do. It's that old thing, follow your bliss because you wanna get into a job. And I say this from my own experience, a job that you can grow with and have longevity with and love. I mean, there are people who become librarians and they're not happy. And the one thing that I can say is I'm happy. I love what I do and I just talked about one aspect of what I do. You may end up getting one job and then you end up having three jobs which is what happened with me. So whatever your area of interest is, immerse yourself in the community of that interest. It chess. You know, whatever it is, follow your own interest and develop your skills. The skills that will make you happy over a career because you may not stay in libraries or you may go into a corporate library where you're like me doing institutional work. So just really immerse yourself in the community that you wanna go into. That would be my advice. At UCSF, the most recent hire in my area actually is a person who was a family practice physician for 25 years and he got tired of dealing with insurance companies and family practice, kind of seeing the same things all over. The person with the cold and just the same stuff, right? So he kind of burned out and he decided to become a medical physician. Decided to become a medical librarian. So he is my colleague and he's the latest person we hired. We have, in UCS, they have assistant librarian, associate librarian and librarian in the librarian series. We have people in the library who have librarian degrees but they work in the programmer analyst series like they're a web librarian or they work with the CLE which is our content management system for classes, the online portion of it. So we have librarians who don't have a librarian title but they have the degree. In the librarian series, historically, the entire time I have ever, I've been there since 98, we've never hired an assistant librarian. We only have hired usually middle to high associate and librarian because for the kinds of questions we get, they're not entry level. We are a graduate study campus. We don't have undergraduate populations. So you have to kind of be already at a certain level of knowledge to work at UCSF. I would also agree that study what you wanna study, go to the area you wanna go to and then network with people. All of these library world is made up of a lot of little villages and the little villages are networked and meeting people and knowing people opens doors. And a lot of it's very difficult if you're just going online and submitting your resume through a HR online system. So I do encourage you to like join associations, network with people, go to events and find out what, cause there's so many different things we do. There's so many different niches you can end up in library world. At our place, it's specialized, it's small. We have two professionals in San Francisco for 250 attorneys and the same holds true essentially for Los Angeles and Sacramento and so on and so on. So there isn't a huge hierarchy of positions and levels of authority. But the one thing that I can share with you is it helps to know the language. So if you're interested in law, for example, to be able to succeed at a job interview, if you know the language and the questions about law and things of that nature are being tossed around, you understand what the person's talking about, I would assume it's the same with the medical profession to have some sort of foundation in the specialized vernacular of what's going on. Any more questions? I have a quick one for Mark. What are your three favorite reference sources, reference or research sources and why? You, you and you. Mark, I'm stumped, how do I do this? Three favorites, let me get back to you. At the top of my head, I really couldn't tell you. Lexus had something recent up that they closed down recently. There was a law librarian who for many years had done an online question and answer kind of thing. You call it the research guide. And for whatever reason, he or Lexus or both of them agreed to close it down about a year ago. And this was something that evolved from a little metal box of index cards. And that's sort of how I learned when I started here in San Francisco. The librarian who I was learning from had this box and it was, you know, it was all indexed by subject matter and you find, I don't know about medicine or anything else, but sometimes in law, the same kinds of questions will come up over and over and over again. It's still, law is funny, it stays the same but it also evolves. Any other questions? Cause I have one from, ah, we got one. Hi, this question is from Meredith. Can you talk a little bit about your projects with folk dancing? Did you, I thought I read something that you had done some work on folk dance. I'm a folklorist. So I've done projects related to music of the gold rush and I like to look, I have a favorite troubadour that went through the camps, Mark Taylor, who gave a lot of crabtree, her start as a child performer. And I analyze the lyrics cause they're very, they're a chronicle of the politics of the gold rush. And he had a, he was kind of the multiculturalists of the performers. He would actually take the sides of Native Americans or African Americans or anybody in the mining camps that was not a favorite. And the folklore has helped me quite a bit with, I'm also the curator of the Frank V DeBellis collection, which is an Italian culture collection that goes back to Etruscan. We've got lots of music artifacts from the Etruscan era, medieval manuscripts. It's a fantastic collection. And I've used some of my folklore skills to research the donor. And oh, one of the things I wanted to do today was to thank the special librarians in particular, the special librarians at San Francisco Public and the San Francisco History Room because I could not do my job researching San Francisco people without this resource and the staff, they were so knowledgeable. So I actually really, I wanted to dedicate my program to these people. And I've also used the folklore to do research on local television broadcasters because we have a TV archive that's one of our special collections. So in particular, for San Francisco Public's History Room, I got photographs of the early broadcasters that were used for publications. So the special libraries are really my home away from home. The performing arts, the newest name doesn't stick to me but that's where I did a lot of my research for Vernon Alley. So there's a real interconnection of all of the special libraries, especially if you're an archivist doing institutional work. Yeah. Goodness. Peggy, in mentioning about Johns Hopkins, and I don't know if this is because of the lawsuit, but librarians like Doug Warner had gone to Hopkins and he was actually put into a program where he was either part of or following a lot of the pre-med students in their first year. And I'm wondering if there are other institutions doing a similar thing for their librarians. Do you remember? You know, I don't know the details of the kind of program Doug went into. I know he went back there and was in like a two-year, you know, they had gotten, I think it was a grant funded program that they were trying but I don't know exactly what he did. So I don't know. Yeah, they are. I'm sure people are. I just don't know of them. Yeah, it's grown quite a bit and it is becoming not necessarily Derriguer, but the idea that information is our content and medicine is theirs is the idea that is bringing librarians to rounds. It's growing. I mean, when I started, I started my first, after my fellowship at the National Library of Medicine, I worked at Children's Hospital in San Francisco and then we merged and became CPMC. So I had eight years where I was actually a hospital librarian. I used to go to Morning Report. I was very involved clinically with the residency training programs because we had five standalone training programs plus we got a lot of UC students who rotated through and some of the UC residents also rotated through. So I worked a lot when I was in the hospital setting years ago doing very clinical librarian work before it was really written about so much in the literature. It just was happening organically in places. I was wondering how you actually find special libraries and what different kinds are there and how would you go about finding where the special libraries are? Well, that's an interesting question. We actually have an editor of the local Bay Area SLA newsletter here and do you know, is there, she needs to contact the SLA here? So what, so you want to contact the SLA, the local chapter, the SLA directly or were you asking them how to find special, you're asking them how to find special libraries, all right? She wants to know where, how to, yeah. Where and how to? Yeah, so. I don't know yet but give me your means of contact and I'll look it up and send it back to you. Is there a directory? An online directory? Yeah, I mean, certainly like special libraries association, medical library association and its local chapters, California Association of Law Librarians, like all of these sort of specialty fields have groups, California Archivist or. CSU Archivist. Yeah, I mean there's, because we're all in these little different niches, we gather together with our own like librarians and I would say contact those different special library associations and they would have membership lists and they would have, you would see where people were working. Yeah and many of us, many of the various organizations have listservs and if you sign up for a listserv, you'll get notices of the meetings for many of the special places and that organizations and meetings and it works really well. Here we go. So there's a third floor and that's where the special library directories are. Yeah. There's a third floor, there's a third floor. Not answered. Okay, well we're running up to 1130 and if there are any more questions, I'd like to close this portion and invite you all to partake of what we have still in the lobby and I'd like to thank these four people for being great. Thank you.