 what the HEDOS says to do and the former HEDOS says to do. Let's get to obviously the huge topic, Mr. Akachinda, political democratic space. You as opposition political parties have had a press briefing. You organized yourselves and you had a press briefing. Why are you alleged that the democratic space is shrinking and that the European government? Is this something that you still stand by and why do you think this democratic space is shrinking? First of all, it's a must that we have a problem in this country in that regard and it needs to be solved. The UPND have found a way to put a machinery that is working and collaborating with UPND cadres. The patriotic front cadres were irritating in the sense that they were all over on the streets making noise and so on and sometimes making noise and so on at bus stations. But the UPND cadres brutalizing and memeing people in a well orchestrated criminal man, you understand? And I am for example an example of how several times there has been an attempt on my life. The other private engagements have highlighted before but let me give you classical examples. I was appearing before court, the magistrate court here and UPND cadres led by provincial officials here in Osaka came to the court premises, crowded the court. At the time that we were getting into the court, I was harassed and the police were helpless. No harassed by cadres. UPND cadres. And the other colleagues that escorted me were equally brutalized and harassed in the courts, the magistrate courts. I had to escape through other means, rescued through other means, tunnels that led to the cells and then moved. When they saw that they couldn't lynch me in court, they went outside there and started making pronouncements that no, we came here to give solidarity to the president. And solidarity to the president is to come and assort if not lynch people in court. It has never happened to another private fund, neither has it ever happened to another MND that people would even threaten the courts. And then on top of that they make pronouncements and say we want all measures to be transferred. What followed? Two, three days later all measures were transferred from Rosaka to other parts of the country. Then Mr. Akai in the Zaman people, those are fantastic lines. We went to a bi-lecture in Petahuket to each of us campaign manager in Losangas. Our candidate who was supposed to file in nomination because the UPND were threatened and they had attempted to compromise this individual in many ways from state house. And these are matters that have been presented to court from state house. Then they decided to use the police. The police working together with UPND caders, the videos are there. I was almost being killed in Losangas. Mr. Akai in the Hremai saying the capitalism has ended. Look at what happened to Fred Menbenimukusi. Look at what happened to Pathotic Front when we were filing in nominations during the Kansuchia Person Inimukusi. Look at what was happening in Chilabomba during that local government bi-lecture. Look at what almost, I mean we almost killed the Inikabushi that they on Obolusambu was filing in nominations. Caders laid by ministers, some ministers following us up to a phoenix station wanting to niche us. So this story of suggesting that caders have stopped under UPND. The only things that the caders of PF, which we actually are working on in the branding, they were the Boston wearing, if you mind, the Garia Fiat, and so on. And it was irritating people because you find that you're driving into town and you find a huge crowd of caders. They are peaceful, they are not beating anyone. But just starting convenience of delaying traffic, people got fed up. But these people are not... And also reports of harassing the Zambians. You know, several reports of... The harassment in the PF of the caders, that kind. But the UPND caders, they are operating like criminals, beating people, abducting people in the name of politics. Yesterday we escorted the honorable GBM at the SEC. Within a short period of us being there to give solidarity to a colleague, you understand? I had to be whisked out of that place. If some police officers were near, did not act swiftly, today you would have possibly not had a guest here. And they came clearly to eliminate. And these are not playing. And I'm telling you that we're going, if you don't pay attention, because I'm going to tell you that you're going to lose colleagues in terms of losing their lives. This is the first time I've had the political party in opposition at the time that was even willing to engage with the police in terms of violent engagements. You understand what I'm saying? And at some point where people have forgotten, the narrative was suggested that under President Lungu, the police were brutal. People have not examined the conduct of the opposition at the time. But as we're being brutalized, without even when we're willing to cooperate, imagine Ambassador Mahamba, one of the senior diplomats we have in this country. Instead of just sending a call out to have him appear before the police, the police with him, some caders, follow him at a car once, and go and brutalize him there. You understand what I mean? So do you think that that is something? Yeah, but then also some of these are questions that I'm making are very serious. Have you had time maybe to report to the police, especially when Ambassador Mahamba? Issues to threaten your life? I mean, I've reported. I've written to the IG several times. I've even named individuals that have been brutalized in that manner, and they attempted to do that to, you know, not only my life, the lives of other people. They are people like Liswan, who was abducted from Benauke, brought here, brutalized by the police, of course, operating with some caders. Today we're having caders who are masquerading as the police officers, and they are aided to do some of these things. Then they take him to go and they start threatening that they're going to kill him. They start firing gunshots, you know, over his head, unless they have covered him with a head sock. What kind of a country are we in? You understand what I'm saying? The young boy, Andy, and the other one, Thompson Peary, these are boys that could have possibly just sent a call out to appear. And patriotic front, because of the fact that you are confident to have not committed any crime, we are willing, and we've always been willing to cooperate with the police. While the police has decided to start being brutal, it's this. Whenever they arrest us, and of course, in the process, they refuse to give us bond, we have to go to the high court, apply for abas, copas, and all these applications for us to get out, to enjoy our rights and freedoms as provided for in the law. The Mr. Haka in the ITRMA begins to, you know, instruct the police where you allow them to be released. But in the public, he says, I want them to be given bond. Anyone who's arrested, give them bond within 48 hours. But he's given a different instruction to the police. And that is what has given the police the impetus to start brutalizing, particularly patriotic front members. All right. Now, this, you know, you've also strongly linked this to the what you have alleged as a patriotic front, alleged prosecution of the first of the former first family of the former first family. You have linked that there's you've linked these allegations that there's been so much persecution in as far as the family of the former head of state is concerned. But why do you think that is the case? Because these investigative links have been very, very clear to say, if we suspect that those, you know, that those corruption involved, if we do suspect that there are links to maybe proceeds of crime, it does not matter who the person is, but we'll go for that person. But in a situation of maybe just to take you to two days ago when Dali Solung was arrested, the former head of state son, the allegations of proceeds of crime there. How have you linked that to prosecution to, you know, the former head of state? Listen, when you hear the kind of talk that is coming from the police and IG today, when we have a police service to be saying we're going to use minimum force, that language is only a language in the police state. To this business of saying, if we suspect that there's an allegation, we're going to go for that person. What do they mean? Regardless of who it is. What do they mean when they say we're going to go for that person? Is it going to get at the former president's residence? Is that going after those people? Is there no way in a civilized democracy and the government system where, you know, those who the suspect could have committed an offense, because we operate under the principle of being innocent and being proven guilty. The police have no right to take away my freedom. They have no right to abuse me and to abuse my family. What the police are doing nowadays to get into people's homes in the name of wanting to go and search and so on without any inquiry on what they're looking for is an abuse. You know, inquiries must be undertaken in a manner that does not violate people's rights and people's freedom. So my brother, can you justify the sending of constables and all these police officers to the residence of the former president? Before, for example, the first rate is even given an opportunity to, you know, interface with the law enforcement agencies on the issues that they are looking for by simply sending a call out. You understand? You send a battalion at the residence of the former president with instructions that if you are not permitted to get in, break the law, grind down what you call the gates. And some of us can justify in the name of saying they suspect something wrong that has been, may have been committed. I remember what you could, I think it was in the book of Ndere who said that at some point he had said something which, you know, got the attention or attacked the attention of the police. But when they were sending and taking a call out to him and Anderson Mazoka, by virtue of their status, Anderson Mazoka was basically an opposition leader. And Mr. Hon. Kapindere was actually former vice president. When they were taking a call out, the current IG was a senior police officer is the one who the center asked to go and take a call out. Why? Because under the government then, they also acknowledged that these are senior citizens who have served the country at a certain level. There must be some respect and the protocol because after all, you are just investigating. You respectfully, you know, ask somebody to come and appear. What would have been wrong to go to the former president to the call out by senior, you know, police officer and say, respectfully, we need the, you know, former first time, first lady to come and, you know, we're doing an inquiry and so on. Without even attracting any yellow ball and answers would have been provided. But that whole drama is meant to, you know, push a narrative that the president must have done certain things wrong when he was in status. The harassment of his son, that is, so that you referred to. That is, so the father was president. This young man was working for ZDRAE. When the father became president, he said, no, I don't think I can continue working. Obviously circumstances, you know, former president's son and so on. So it put him in an awkward position and looked like if he doesn't perform well, he's commended for promotion or anything of that sort. No, it's because the father is president. So he opted to leave that post he had at ZDRAE and just leave away from all that controversy and do business. And the father, of course, supported him. I was even joking yesterday, telling the former president and other colleagues to say, I think when I joined into the, I limited the president. Because maybe that's what people expected. The main fact that this young man went, the main fact, the union is saying, look, it's not any prosecution, but if you have been to SEC, go there and answer the questions and that's it. So there's no any form of prosecution. This is what the UPND are saying. But I'm elaborating to you because we live in the same environment. The local statements which are coming out that, for example, Tassila and the husband were to go to Fishpond or Fishpond. Fishpond, they were to send a man to pick up the money while he was in Bira, but it became a plastic, fat brown, and it became a survey at costing valued at 13 million. He said, go there, I should write it, and I said, this is what I'm saying. I'm going to talk to my survey, you know, soon. It doesn't even take more than, you know, 1,500 to 2,000 quarts to just put up a reasonable Fishpond. People manually can be done, even if they participate or cool. You put, you know, the necessary, whatever. Necessarily we were asked to be 3,000 quarts a week. Within a 10,000 quarts, we can actually have a reasonable Fishpond. But because it involves the family of the former president, it is exhilarated to try and create alarm in the minds of Zambians that these people, how in the Ramashansi Shalif maqwis, exhilarating things. Which basically were a product of an agreement between the first aid and the people who misappropriated our funds. That's all that drama, to just go and collect, that's how come we generally don't say, let's get some interventions starting with Facebook, Sam Tembo says, good morning, you want to come back and do what honestly, you are blaming the people who came out to celebrate the debt restructuring, yet it is you the PM who got us where we are with this huge debt. This comes through from Sam Tembo, thank you so much. Peter Mawanga says, good morning, so what can you say, you developed the country while you've left billions of debts, if your borrowing was reasonable, why did we default? This is coming through from Peter Mawanga. Thank you so much, Peter. Smart says, good morning. The reason why people are no longer listening to such guests is because they come to contradict everything the government in power is doing to them. Everything is a mistake and they compare with the PF. This is coming through from a smart, let me just get some text messages that we do have before we officially open the phone lines. Okay, just having a better challenge. Okay, this one says, good morning. Why did we remove PF in power? Who are telling HHH to get a police when visiting the same churches? Even the campaigning, he was blocked, yet the PF is dreaming that we are rebranding with the same people who made the party to lose power. This is coming through from Saqqala. Then this one says, good morning Mr. Nakachinda, are you among those who are aspiring to take the leadership of the patriotic front? This is a handful. Let's just check with our WhatsApp. This one says, good morning Mr. Nakachinda. The PF will never bounce back in power, not under this life. We haven't forgotten what the PF did to us as ambiance that we shall never forget. Okay, then this one says, this comes through from Andres, says, so has President ECL returned from active politics or is doing politics? Why do you think the UPND are scared of ECL, who lost to them by one million votes? This is coming through from Andres. Thank you so much, Andres. I think you can respond to this before we get close. So somebody talked about blaming those who were celebrating. First of all, those who were celebrating were arranged and organized by UPND. And after being organized and arranged by UPND, they didn't mean for few part of their bargain for getting them to the airport to go and celebrate. You saw, you know, cadres of UPND fighting at the party secretary at over 50 quarters, they were promised to be paid to go and celebrate a president to create an impression that people are very happy about something that hasn't even been actualized and quantified in terms of what benefit to bring to the Zambian people. For the first time in 30 years, we had the civil servants being bussed to go and do like it used to be, and no one but the state, Chokane to present Aga in the itself. This man is living in ancient times, where in a multi-party democracy, where the party and the government are separated, the activities at the airport were, you know, political activities. You don't expect civil servants now to start lining up, pupils being bussed to go and line up. If you fear to take it, I don't know how old you are, but those who were happening during Kaunda's time. You hear the master first of all, he is a part of the political party. He is the secretary or chairman of a branch or what or something like that. So, and the traditional leaders were members of, you know, central committee, MCCs and all that. It was a government, you know, the party and its government. But that we resisted and fought for the introduction of multi-party democracy. And we separated government from political parties. And therefore, a politician in the HLM, who is privileged to be president, when he wants to undertake political activities, he should not involve civil servants. Today we're having an association of head teachers going to the airport to go and receive the president. What more sense is that? Mr. Nagashinda, you have to be very quick in your responses because you have to get calls. So, civil servant, you're talking about the church. Someone mentioned about church. I mean, patriotic front, we respected the church. And there is no record, you know, during the time that we're in government, for any of the officers ridicule church leaders. Today under UPND, the secretary general of patriotic front on behalf of the president addressed the nation, started calling bishops and art bishops, lucifers, priests, lucifers, something that is abominable to do. I mean, obviously, being Christian voice, the constituents that and the audience that you have mainly are those who profess our faith as Christians. I don't think such practices must be encouraged. I mean, there's need for us to reverence and respect sacred, you know, things. Expected those also are divinely privileged to save in the sacred office of a minister of the gospel, whether it is a priest, bishop or art bishop or whatever, but the attitude that the government of the day is exhibiting towards the church is actually eroding the fear of God. And the moment the fear of God, you know, erodes in a society, what you introduce is actually wickedness, barbaric. For the first time in the history of this country, we're having those who are practicing homosexuality and the gayism and so on, you know, protesting, protected by the police. And we have asked this government what their stance is and they have been elusive. We need to have our eyes opened. There is an advancement that would want to have our society perverse and begin to practice abominable practices and we should say no to those things. Our respects and reverence to the church is very clear. Okay, let's get some calls. Good morning and through to the program. Your name and where you calling us from? Dr. Proud under 30 seconds. You can go ahead with the contribution. Thank you so much, Dr. Proud. All right. Thank you so much for coming through. Let's keep our submissions very, very short within 30 seconds. If you're able to have your submission within those seconds, I think so that we allow people to come through. Good morning and through to the program. Very well. Your name and where you calling us from? All right. Under 30 seconds. You can go ahead with the contribution. Thank you very much. Good morning, Ms. Andrew. All right. Thanks so much. Thank you so much, Andrew, for coming through this morning.