 Alright, we're back with the breakfast right here on Plus TV Africa and indeed the election round the ballot 2023 right here, indeed of course we've been giving you updates and of course analysis and coverage of Nigeria 2023, Nigeria decides 2023 right here on Plus TV Africa, my name is Kofi Bartels. And I am messy above all, it's good to have you here. Yes indeed, yes indeed, messy, it's great to be back. I'm making it monthly as always. Oh well, thank you. Yes indeed, I'm sure our guests who are starting by will agree with that. We have Chris Candy Wando joining us for a discussion as we look at the unfolding announcement of results. Chris, good morning. Good morning Kofi, good morning messy. Alright, Chris Candy Wando of course is a chartered arbitrator, UK certified charter arbitrator and he joins us live on Zoom on the breakfast this morning. We've been having results trickling in. Of course we've been looking at getting the final results so we know who the president will be. I think the picture is becoming clearer as the days go by, mercy you know it's been quite interesting. Yesterday we were awaiting the results of the River State elections for the presidential elections of course not all the local governments had returned their results. We heard that about two local governments were left from River State but it seems like there was a slight tweak. The APC presidential candidate was leading in most of River State but when the political local government era results came in the lead of the APC presidential candidate in River State was chopped and the Labour parties took over established his first lead, first time he was in front in River State after winning most of the votes of the city local government area. Peter B. polled 62,451 votes to win that council leaving PDP Zatiko Bokar with 7,303 votes and the All Progressive Congress Bola Ahmed Tinibu with 5,562 votes that's for that political city local government area, mercy. So these results will be you know got the lead in only five local government areas but he overtook Tinibu who also led River State since the beginning of the collision with the wins in 12 local government areas. I'm reading a report here that says Obi-Wan Hoda-Weson Degama being expert I think Degama may have come in. So as it stands Peter B. has 163,033 votes to lead Tinibu who polled 140,262 votes and Atiko got 82,109 votes. Of course what I hear you hear from a correspondent who I spoke with who was at the River State Collation Center yesterday is that it took a while, mercy. You know Pothakot is a big state but most of the people in River State are concentrated in the Auburn centers. So you have Pothakot and now there are two local government areas in Pothakot, Pothakot city local government area and Obi-Wan Poe local government area which is one of the richest local government areas in Nigeria, I think second richest after I don't know what I'd say one of the local governments in Lagos. So the INEC headquarters you know INEC collision center in River State is in Pothakot where you have Obi-Wan Poe local government area where you have Pothakot city local government area it's called Farga and so you know but people were wondering why you had all the local government areas in River State even those you have to cross water you know to get to its speedboat setting in their results but Pothakot city local government area and Obi-Wan Poe local government area had not sent in their results at the time. And also someone asked on a space I was on, Trader Space a couple of nights ago and why most of the violence in River State, political violence, ballot box snatching, ballot paper tearing you know a lot of the violence we've seen and some of the inability of INEC staff to access the beavers because of password failure and so we're asking why it was concentrated in Obi-Wan Poe and Farga and I asked I think Opponabo and Gotawa yesterday on the program what he said was that it's because of the concentration of a population density you know in that part of the state most of the people the voting population that concentrated in these two local government areas and so probably the politicians will want to focus on those local government areas to be able to get more votes and you can see just one local government area mercy which is a Pothakot city local government area came in last night and Obi-Wan Poe took the lead okay just five local government areas but another interesting thing is that the local government chairman let us start from this point the coalition officer for the local government was had to be brought in by the commissioner of police in River State there was a sort of a distressed call she said she couldn't leave where she was because the politicians were harassing her you know the politicians were harassing her she said supporters of some political parties were harassing her so she had to call for the CP you know the CP had to leave the coalition center to go and bring her himself because she said she was under some sort of detention and when she came in the reports we have is that the local government chairman of course the government of River State had given a directive you know to the local government chairman to deliver their local government area so we told that the local government chairman of Pothakot city local government and his officials who were not accredited to be at the coalition center the state coalition center followed them in and they were frantic they were panicking they were pacing in fact the report told me that the local government chairman was shaking yes so that is what happened and will be a second the leading in River State but just before we talk about you know obese lead in River State you know one of the things that we saw a play out yesterday of course we're going to be sharing the thoughts of Chris Cain in one do as to the protests of you know the opposition party the election results so opposition party yesterday the coalition said that I mean shortly after the independent national electoral commission continued the announcement of result don't forget that one result was announced on Saturday which was a kitty state result and so after that we had I next said that there will be a resumption of the coalition center you know on the around 11 o'clock that was yesterday which was Monday and so shortly after that time party agents Nigerians as well on different social media spaces also online had protested the result of the that was ongoing at the coalition center and that's where we want to share Chris Cain did one those thoughts as to this development now their concerns was that the process of the entire electoral process was not respected as to the fact that the electoral arts of 2022 had chip elated that results will be transmitted via the beavers and would have real-time transmission however if I like a lot of polling units were not you know using that particular mode of operation so results were not in most polling unit transmitted electronically as to what the electric the electorate that said there were also different you know interest to that we also how members of this opposition party worked out of the coalition center the FCT Chris Cain they wonder what do you make of this the opposition party protesting election result at the coalition center personally I think the eye neck has lowered the bar as it were in this election and there seems to be a lot of compromise on these facts because based on the guideline the eye neck has already read that you see that base full transmission of results where the beavers and that transmission is what I make supposed to be looking out at the coalition center but unfortunately the entire man seems to for whatever reason seems to have other ideas and is trying to do manual relational results which led to the protest by most of the political parties yesterday and then some of them worked out including the people's party party and the labor party there were issues that we are raised but if this election is going to be a threat and transparent as the I'm a chairman from Miss Nigeria's then he has to do the needful trying to say oh no there's no problem whatever I'm reading that I'm reading that is already worked out and don't forget as of Sunday most of the result were not in the eye neck a ref I read and a lot of my hearing stress I brought about that I make chairman didn't say anything about it when he neglected me and opened the coalition center it was not until soon more there's so many people started crying out about this that I make later in the night issues the first statement that it was having problem with the server but that they are trying to do something about it so what the I'm a chairman doing for me is compromising this system and making it looks doesn't make it look transparent enough and that in his is an issue as it were but the question we asked ourselves which one do we go for are we going to stop the election collection of the results on to I make the upload most of this result to the server and display as required so that the parties can follow us can follow on or should they go ahead with the coalition as you saw the statement by former president we should go about Sunday yesterday on the issue and the professor solutions to that I think I make sure try to be as transparent as it was so that this election which seems already compromise people will start doubting the Chris but the bottom of contention is not as to you know we know the bone of contention whether the process should continue because those who were protesting we saw the likes of Dino Milai we saw other party agents apart from that you also had several protests outside of the collision center now what they're asking is that you can't continue with the process the elections or the result were to be transmitted at the polling unit but saying that we're waiting for them to upload the result which means after I mean election how many hours after the elections then that election results should be transmitted according to the electoral act of 2022 that the results will be uploaded it will be a real time at the polling units not when you get out of the polling unit to the warden you know get to the state center before all of this is uploaded so I'd like to ask you do you think that the arguments that the opposition and Nigerians are having a valid should the coalition continue some persons have made reference to the fact that INEC has a constitutional obligation to conduct the elections and so the process should continue because there it's within their discretion to continue it and then maybe the people should face the tribunal I said that this process to me is already compromise and what the political parties are saying is the right thing but don't forget that INEC also have the right to either continue they are the one that determines what the INEC chairman has the power to either continue the coalition or listen to them and it's so for me it was even more intriguing that apart from APC that it was urgent INEC to continue with the coalition every other political party that spoke yes we are against it and asking the chairman but the chairman seems to agree with APC and that is why it's important that as I said this election would seem compromise if INEC will follow its own goal of making sure that those trans people because if you check if you check through those results and the political process are saying as you are reading that we are taking online to see what you are reading that whether it's the same thing that our own agents at the police station are at the local government coalition centers and rest of them but don't forget what the INEC chairman through the various races is giving is just a random figure of voting in the states they just call the results in the states party by party and sign off on it but the political parties said that as they are calling out they want to make sure that they are following today and I'm finding I wonder why I think it's funny difficult to do this because they already did it a number they did it in there or shown equity so why is it that INEC is finding difficult to do that nationally don't forget what happened that most Nigerians today most of those police stations also have issue having this problem of transmitting these results through the beavers guys INEC officials people feel voting as less artists were and we are waiting for this resource to be transmitted via beavers to the central server and most of time the INEC official will tell you that the server is down the rest of us is where they transmitted that of national assembly when it comes to the presidential resource they say there is no problem I was in another station yesterday my village is a classical example where people voted in four polling centers and they voted till about 9 p.m. three of those police centers couldn't have their results uploaded through the beavers and transmitted to the central server so and that is the same thing that happened but so I personally asked me I would I just believe and I would have just asked INEC to just sit back and find out where the problem is coming from it's better that we solve this issue once and for all that's continue to go this same route that at the end of it all they bring to question the credibility of the result that has been telling the Nigerians which is what our politicians have led to if you make any complaint they say let the result be related and announced many agree for the persons who put to the court because they know they will get their way caught we cannot contribute it for the court every time I say it is wrong for you to say people should wait let the system be if you agree most often than not we realize that they don't even get justice at this court so it's better we get it right rather than we spend over 300 billion for this election that was the tasker's money that INEC was given to conduct it what are we talking about how they're not getting it right very back to me all right Chris very interesting I mean we all were witness to now I don't know if we can roll the tape but we all witnessed to the actions of Dino Melaye the man that some like to call the dinosaur who refused to be called refused to sit down and vehemently continue to protest the kitty election results which came in and if it was clear for everyone to see that the number of those who voted were more than the number of those who are credited in other words there was overvoting and the INEC chamber had a simple logic was his logic his logic was that the process for collision was in four stages or is in four stages at the world level where all the polling unit you know results are brought in the collate all of them at the local government level where they collate all the world results at the state level where they collate all the local government results and then at the national level where all the state results are collated now he said every objection every protest for the results ought to have been done at the polling unit before the result was sent back to the state to look to the world and then if they have problems at the world because they're collating the polling unit results there they can the party agents can can lodge their protest there you know and so so once those are signed it may be difficult for the state's you know collision officer to start going back to unit by unit by unit and if it's signed in the state it may be difficult for the national collision officer which who is the INEC chairman or the national returning officer rather who is the INEC chairman to to agree that they will start going you know to the results unit by unit you know for all the units in the country so he says if they start that they won't leave there so what what do you say to this you know that they protest should be at the unit level world level even maybe state level we have to let it yes I agree with him but even at that if you protest at the world level and local government and state level and there is no listen to you you also have opportunity of also expressing yourself at the national level the INEC chairman is the national the coordinating officer for the national election which is the presidential election don't forget and we also had some other election on Saturday that of the House of Representative and Senate which were dead with at the senatorial level but if there are discrepancies that were raised then the national chairman of INEC also to look at it but he says something yesterday after this complaint that he has gone through the result and the result that is period that was exactly what the the agent signed that every agent signed that a result and that there is no single voting in the result so is between him and the political parties in political parties have evidence that there was a voting and the result and it is for them to be able to bring it to before for Nigerians to see they're talking about Dilo Mellias the protest every Nigerian have a right to protest in as much as it's not violent it was protesting that his party was being undermined in the process of the collation of the result he has the right the only issue there is that if he's not doing it in a manner that we bring some kind of disrepute or bring some kind of in security challenges to those that protested but it's the right that he has under the law that is rightly given under the position of political party. So about Chris if you look at you know some of the consent of Nigerians not just those who are the coalition center these are party agents the major crux for the conversation is the mode of transmission of results results were to be transmitted electronically but they were asking how were these results transmitted because there were several reports as well which were very evident that results were not transmitted at the polling unit which prior to this time was the reason for the introduction of the beavers so when you allow the space from the polling unit there were several complaints that why this polling unit couldn't update or upload this results and then so within all of that gap and the space that you have anything could have happened and we have seen pictures of results being doctored and mutilation however on the papers so there also you know queries as to elections not happening in several places due to violence in some places the elections didn't really happen because of insecurity issues should INEC not pay attention is it not within the powers of INEC to decide that these issues should be paid attention to rather than continuing with the coalition of the results. Without repeating myself I think this issue has been a case that most of the thing I said earlier I even gave the instance of my village where results would not be transmitted so and I've said it that INEC the national chairman of INEC to be able to see power and able to look at most of these challenges which he himself and his commission have agreed they have when they talked about the issue of the server and that they're having some clashes here and there which as of today I have not gone there I was following we are supposed to have about the total pooling units it's supposed to be about 176,000 they are about 176,000 I dealt with that INEC has computed up to 66,000 they're about the last time I checked into the server the first thing remains that if INEC said that the result will be transmitted and that the result will be distributed to the servers and it will be displaced for political party and Indians to see as a result they cannot go back I saw the press it don't don't also forget that there have been series of press conferences and counter press conferences the PDP had a press conference yesterday which is a communication head of communications and spokespersons nearby then a module after that the APC also quickly came and they also had us I was also headed by De La Lacque where there are acquisition and counter positions that of the APC we are saying that is not compulsory that the INEC must display those results that we have translated to the server that is nothing that is a circuit I'm actually was saying that really conference but from all internal purposes we are holding I like to his words that this result will be transmitted electronically and that's everybody will be able to put in order and see what so if it's fairly in his premises then there is to Ross as Nigerians there's a lot of compromising going on and that in this committee international observers have already started issuing statement on the legend I'm sure you must have seen that of people was we have seen that of EU you have seen that of NDI and IRA which is observers from the United States and you see some of the things that they have quoted the largest in the credibility of INEC and what it did on Saturday that in this way all right is it very good the table one but I make a student and make sure that those they write it okay Chris can you wonder of course everything has to be done you know according to law and then the black and white time you are very ways are very important and we'll look at some of these before moving to look at them at the next test focus on this discussion I'm glad to say we're joined by a legal practitioner and Paulie Jimé is also on June on Zoom he is the joint's life in Lagos Paulie Jimé good morning to you thank you very much for your time thank you very much little correction I'm not a legal practitioner I'm a global affairs analyst all right thank you for having me apologies I'm working with what we are told hey hey all right and no problem yes so before we get into the shift of in balance of power in legal state what it seems to be happening and what are your thoughts on I mean the the legal angle we look at the the electoral act 2020 as amended and the guidelines or regulations and guidelines for the collective elections which is was a documentary released by INEC and in in June 2022 which which was for this election and from subsequent election elections the parties are saying that the political the electoral empire INEC must look into their complaints the issues matters arising issues they have with results coming in from different states and I mean one plus one is equal to two that's very clear but when and one plus one it becomes three and then you accept it then the I mean it could be questioned but the INEC chairman is saying this is not the place for that you had four different stages there are three stages before now the world-level coalition where the RA slash you know world coalition officer could have been you know shown those issues and then the local government coalition and then the the state coalition centers we cannot go into individual itinerant results from units here at the national coalition center is what the INEC chairman has been saying I'd like to draw your attention very quickly to to such certain provisions of of the electoral act and then you tell me what do you think about it and it's sub section 60 subsection one of the electoral activity to as a minute says that a presiding officer after counting the votes of the poll at a polling unit shall enter the votes scored by each candidate in form in a form to be described by the commission of course you know what that form is by now I says the form shall be stamped and signed by the presiding officer and counter signed by the candidates or their polling agents were available at polling unit sub three says the president of such I give the polling agents and the police officer were available to copy each of the completed forms which after it has been newly signed you know and all that it says that the presenting officer shall count and announce the result at the polling unit and five says the present officer shall transfer the results including total number of accredited voters and results of the ballot in a manner as prescribed by the commission okay so so it also has prescription of penalty for any presenting officer that refuse to do this and when when the result is announced or not announced at a polling unit for for certain reasons or announced and then what comes out later is is different what remedies to the parties have okay before we go into those remedies let me here say that I'm going to fall back on my experience and then skill as a communication expert and somebody a consultant on them elections have observed them many elections in in in Africa and can tell you that you have all this is what I'm mentioning now it's one of what they call illegal you know normative framework the legal framework for the election it has the constitution it has the electoral laws and then the guidelines and then when well if anyone that if all the two electoral law and then guidelines when they are in consistent with the constitution of course the constitution will have precedence but here what we are talking let me say that what has happened and I'm breaking it down for the ordinary folks because that is what the managing expectation the point is that it I make and it to be fair to them they have them you know made some progress on the technological development by bringing these evers you know by model and the voter accreditation remember it used to be the third reader and then it used to be other things but here it is introduction of technology and then what they love they amended the acts electoral acts 20 22 said about electoral you know transmission of electronic transmission of the result I think that is where the problem lies and then each party depending on where you are they are now taking sides and then I make has also come to do the chairman said he was going ahead what has happened is that technology has failed and then we need to be clear on that but the other thing is that they have also not covered themselves in glory in the way they have communicated the challenges they are having they only came out with the statement that I think almost 24 hours after but for a commission that in Anambra in Osho and I think where is it and they were able to upload this this said iris iris refers to them the and I make them you know a result viewing portal and that is for the common man to show real time that as soon as this is completed from the polling units you know it will everybody you have voted the voters will see the what has happened you hear parties telling their followers or supporters to remain there make sure that their votes count and then when they remain there the party agents will also now see what the election agents are doing and then it will be very open and transparent then the sign when as soon as they signed up to this it will now be uploaded to the INEC server I think that is where the challenge comes and then post pasted on the wall of polling units so this is what you know this was introduced to avoid the previous experience where in hand carrying some of these results something might happen between the polling units and the world and then from the world to the states and then the collating center and then from the state before you now get to the national coalition if it is you were talking about the presidential but for the other ones I think they have settled at the state level so but it is the issue the problem of not communicating they have done so but I think they have come out rather late in the day and when you leave that kind of them delay it creates suspicion it creates anxiety and then everybody begins to talk about here perception remember remember the background to that you had so you saw some voter intimidation you saw some vandalism you saw voter suppression you show some violence all over in some places but Matthew these were the things that were played up by the media I think the social media play the part here by actually showcasing the negative otherwise I think there were areas where the elections were held peacefully but what bad news travels that is the one that everybody's concentrating on this could have been avoided these are parties working out could have been avoided if for instance before announcements and knowing that they had this challenge I would have called the political parties they have so many platforms that they use to say listen it's a team of them and all the social and also get social and civil society all the state major stakeholders the security everybody say listen this is the challenge we have and we could not upload this because of what so the the statement they issued the 24 hours could have come in much earlier maybe by 6 because what happened in the previous time was that by 10 o'clock after Pauline had ended in those states that I mentioned by 10 o'clock you know resources started coming up on that the portal but technology has you know it can fail and so if it failed the index they should also come out and be very frank okay very sincere and transparent with with Nigerians to say this is what instead of you know the way it has turned out and this way people now make all sorts of permutations and allegations yes please go ahead well just before I delving to you know the issue at hand which is the shift of balance of power in Lagos right here is that I mean just maybe at what point should this polling unit agents or the people make complaints a lot of persons took to social media to put out the results from the polling units because I had a right to take these pictures and then we see the results some of them were mutilated you could see the t-packs that were being used all of the mutilations cancelling and all of that and you know what that means if you are writing as a student in an examination hall when you getting to all of that then it means that you made a mistake or you know there's something wrong there's something you're trying to correct and that's why there's a lot of cancellation on your paper we have seen that already so at what point should they have protested don't you think that this people protested because they knew they were on national television and they could say that the several reports where people were intimidated at gunpoint agents you know to sign this result so I mean could you have been at that point where you had a gun to your head would you be saying a yes or a no it depends on the individual who wants to die but just before you answer that because I probably don't have time to go through all of that let's look at what has happened power has shifted from what it used to be the APC has been very dominant of legal state over time I mean you almost want to look at it from 1999 now from 2015 look at the presidential election the president Muhammad Abouhari at the time pulled 792 votes 460 700,000 792,000 460 votes to emerge the winner in that election where Jonathan had contested and then you move fast forward to 2019 his reelection bid he had 3 million votes you know to win his closely rival or his close rival which is Atikua Bubaka and that's a different story in 2023 so I like you to speak to the fact that there seem to be a shift from what it used to be the dominance of the APC over the years in legal state you know to Labour Party who would have thought about that well that is the dynamics of politics and then this is good for Nigeria and then the fact that okay let's say that perhaps it was not expected that an outside party were considered an outside app will show make such a strong showing in legal state that you like you said is the dominant term the stronghold of the APC what happened if you go back to the campaign you know not the campaign registration era that the youths have woken up and also the fact that they are challenging the establishment and I will tell you and I think everybody knows is very clear unless who are those who are trying to pretend that Nigeria's are now asking for change they are looking for a new you know breath of life freshness newness because many people are tired this enchanted with the system APC government that promised a lot in 8 years has actually been shot on the delivery of what they promised its security is still there economic hardship is still there unemployment is there inflation is rising and then to top it all up you saw the problem of a pressure crunch and you are all you know just on the eve of the election because of the policy the APC policy APC is in government no matter how any one of them would try to disaster dissent themselves from it it is an APC government that is empowered and brought that policy that put Nigeria's into difficulty for all the good intentions it didn't help matters and then the fact that ransom kidnapping for ransom still going on dealings by Boko Haram for instance during the election Boko Haram still has struck you know said they are throwing mortar in Boronu in Boronu state and then on gunmen we are all over the place in the east and everywhere and then headers who are the headers and agriculture is the farmers and prices so it's been I think the what happened in Lagos which for many people is actually in in sports you call it an upset is what you call a referendum on the establishment on the party in power that they are saying now we cannot continue to do this it can't be business and I keep I know in some places where I have talked I used to you know they may say well is Labor Party is their candidate but I'm saying that it is a protest can the combination a protest against the establishment about what is happening and then the fact that people are saying I saw for instance a voter who was in Jordan Lagos a lady and then had a coach and you know on her face and with blood dripping she got treated and decided also went back to go and cast her boat and once she asked I said is she said even if they can't preferred candidate didn't win but she wanted to exercise them have you know a civic responsibility I think that is why this passion is what has you know now moving to the fact that they have not seen the results for which most of them stood in the rain most of them sacrifice okay thank you very much yeah yeah thank you Chris what I thought so on this you know seaming shift in the balance of pine Lagos me the cage is the home local government area of the APC presidential caddy I mean APC's held Lagos on lockdown for for many years though if you take a look at the results when Obasan Joe was president and maybe after that an election or two after that it wasn't always the case that the AD then or the AC was dominating Lagos so do you think that maybe this is just the way it has been it's just that people weren't confident to come out to to oppose the APC or the AD AC and at the time but it's been the case that for instance PDP had some good votes in Lagos in in 99 in 2003 in 2003 sorry it's not for me yes Chris can you want to please yes yes let's let's get some parts right this wasn't the first time that the ruling party Lagos lost the presidential election as I said at a point I think the PDP also won the presidential election Lagos did and although they lost the ruling party Lagos won the governorship so this is not the first time it's probably the second time but the difference is that you are looking at an outside party that's always been the PDP APC AC and AT since 1999 so you now have what to put a third it became a three-horse race or four-horse race Lagos but it became more of three-horse race and then people came out and voted and that's not I feel that even for the disruption and intimidation that went into that probably the magic would have been much but it's just about 9,000 but it is what it was and the level party that was not expected to make any in-roads into the leg politics in Lagos and how you look at strategy some of the local government that won by the party you will see the level of dominance for instance and you know sure is the biggest local government in the United States and that is where APC has put most of the time but what comes up and you know sure is about three local government put together when you look at their votes everything but the level party won and you know sure I think it was about seven to one thousand percent but there are about which was heavy there level party also won in the state capital of Ikeja the one in Ikeja the one in Shumulu, Kushofe or Joe and some other places that ordinarily you have expected it so what we are saying is that that's a paradigm shift sort of the perception of the politics in Lagos states and I was attributed this to the youth the youth came out massive you see what had been going on social media prior to this election and we had a said that I want to come out and put but I guess our prediction the level party won so it is only a warning to most of the major parties PDP and the APC that we are seeing some shift you see what is the level party is also doing well in the sadist the property has won in a state like Mibu Southside crossover from report that we have seen traditional areas was a do-state sort is out we know of that as announced by the Reich in a do-state level party won in a do-state and so some other state so it is a reshift now but even if they don't win the presidential election this year the fact is that they'll be able to make some statements and they may be that on to the next election but going back to a shift of power because I'm still looking at I'm still waiting to see what will happen at the governor's she has of assembling a lesson next week and on the 11th of March what do you think what do you think will happen now now we've taken us there what do you expect will happen and some people feel that yes some people feel that especially supporters of opposition parties in Lagos state that time the election was rigged and that it was simply a case of lose the battle but win the war in other words I give a little party a bit of you know the win but by slim margin so you can make up the numbers get a 25% in Lagos state and get a good number enough to to win the national vote you know fulfilling section 137 subsection 2a of a concession of Republican ideas so so we saw widespread reports of widespread and voter intimidation voter suppression battleboxes but boxes were snatched burnt torn thrown on roofs people were chased beaten I know that topology mill say social media frenzy but this is a real situation we didn't even see it we'd even see everything people died and so are you are you confident and that the will of the people it will prevail in the governorship election your first question I don't know but I can tell you it's just too close to call as the same politics if you express of violence due to presidential express that expected I'll be more in the governorship election in Lagos state because more would be a state on on the 11th which is why calling on security agencies to really up there and they can be able to make sure that everywhere every news and crannies of of Lagos state is where protected I saw a lot of skimishes here and there and the police will not be able to do any job pets you have to ask yourself what would have police after don't forget only one policeman was stationed at each of the cleaning unit and they were not armed it was it was I say that we don't have about four rings the first rings it had was that the was that carry arms and the move around the area local government a second ring also but the last ring which is the first ring no single security operating is expected to carry a gun even the what they can do what's the scenario is a party so when you have a policeman who listen about let's say there's a situation where we have about 100 people that the police station which is me was very very well let us even put it at 200 I have is a woman that is there standing and their crisis what do you expect to what I mean just please you know I probably take you on that but you know let's leave you know let's let's leave that part whether it's a woman because I don't understand the rationale behind having four hundred thousand police officers to please 87 million persons who probably turn out even if you don't have 87 80 million 60 million yes I mean so he has nothing to do my point here is that's why I said I won't take him on that it has nothing to do whether it's a woman or not the thing is if you look at the calculation it doesn't suit how do you have four hundred thousand security personnel that have been deployed to please 87 million please I mean voters so let's even say 87 will not turn out you have 80 or 60 do the statistics how many persons or how many police officers would you have their reports a sampling unit really didn't have a presence of a single officer and so the people who had to take it upon themselves to defend the territory and defend them both but please please remember I say I can't take you on that because of time I mean I'm sure we can have this conversation you know some other time quickly because let's let's let's wrap up with that whether a policeman or a woman they are policemen just as you say in journalism there's no there's no man or woman in journalism we are oppressed men the same thing with the police what I'm telling you is there are situations where even we are just gender sensitive and what I would like or not I'm leaning on what what the statement I'm giving what I'm saying is the statement that I saw from the spokesperson of legal state police command in other words it's like because a woman was posted no he was using an example not an example I mean you need to say in a case where coffee I'm not trying to be no he was saying he could have said police man he said in a case where you have a woman being posted now it's already looking like it's a police woman that's what it is looking like it's because it's a police woman and so because it's a woman then nothing can be done I think he said he said police woman no that's what he said in a case where you have a police woman it could be a policeman or police woman the point here is it's not how many officers do we have do we have enough officers to just like the state it's the same thing that happened with the election a lot of people were excited that you have four hundred thousand police security personnel who were deployed but if you look at the ratio of number the number of registered voters who will be turning out I mean how do you do I agree with you I think what you're saying and to to Chris can you wonder is that a police woman can equally stand their ground and do a good job like the policemen and their criminal discrimination in terms of facing political thugs facing armed thugs you know facing bad bad boys between police women and policemen they're both equally equipped to to to fight the number that's what you're saying one police mad yes so even if you have police a female police officer at a particular polling unit or polling center that she has the capacity the capability to to to stand her ground you know in the face of Thugry she can take them on is what you're trying to tell Chris and Chris I think you you can understand that he's already said he's gender sensitive let's leave it at that let's leave it at that but I always want to just ask a quick question and to a gmail apology man then to Chris to to round off what we're talking about Lego State had seven point zero six million registered voters at the end of the continuous voter registration excites a total number of voters to lead the country to lead the country in terms of registered voters ahead of Cano in second place River State in third place and Katzina State in fourth place this are a part of the eight sorry a king maker states I call them because they have over three million vote voters registered voters and we see that in keeping to recent you know patterns only one point three four seven million registered voters came out to vote now I ask legosians last week why do we have Lego State lagging behind Cano and Katzina State let's talk about River State because if I talk about River State now I may not be a good journalist and and what what's love respondents told me was that because of voter intimidation and suppression they didn't come out to vote but that this year will be different sir people came into the country from outside I know them California London and Florida different parts of the country and when they came they didn't come to vote alone some even come to vote they came to mobilize hundreds of people they had hundreds to mobilize to go vote for and one political party or the other you know what do you think happened from 7.06 we seen legos lagging behind other states with the number of people came out to vote is this a reflection in your in your in your analysis or your opinion of the fact that people didn't come out to vote or that we're not seeing the real result in front of us a combination of factors one is the fact that many perhaps were afraid you know given the security you know underpinning the other is also that technology has played a huge part you know in those days it was easy for somebody to walk through towards the answer once you know that this is a number of people that were registered then there could be tongue printing you know at random to make up the number but here we have now a gatekeeper in Beaver's that will only record those who have been accredited so that period of massive you know it's not going to happen again and that is one of the takeaways from them the incremental improvement in the in our electoral system so it's a combination and also let me when we're talking about power shifts let us all talk about the fact that it is not unlikely that many people were they took things for granted the ruling party for instance their supporters thought that it was going to be just a roll over but leaving the initiative to those so-called outsiders who mobilized and use came out so one the low turnout is across I think is everywhere in some places you have two million registered but not up to five hundred thousand voted in some states that have been declared so it is one because of insecurity is one of them and the fact that people were afraid you know violence and all that but mainly mainly it is down to the fact that you could no longer come and just vote or use what they used to call it an incident form if you didn't if you didn't they couldn't capture you and them the card reader whatever they gave you from to reduce that kind of massive okay okay thank you very quickly because of time yes yeah I will take a final thought on this from Chris the the wide gap in number of registered voters versus those who came out to to vote Chris very briefly your thoughts on this well we talk about Kano when you talk about Kano and the nuts there are a lot of underage voting and I'm sure you must have noticed that recently we are kids of about seven years five years we are voting that is where you have as we are having that black on that in some part of not that even a commission of police came out when it was asked what is the alarm is when you cannot tell the age of a person by his frame and so that is that for me especially when you are comparing place like Kano Lagos then there is also some level of portal apart because of challenges this year we thought that it would be so much but don't forget that few weeks and few days some ninjas have been having serious challenges on the issue of Naira and the rest of them so there's a lot of this excitement on part of people and to come and exercise they are that in this case I thought that can improve them to to come out and vote but there's some level of apart then also this period of security they saw what happened the last time when they voted in Degos and some people were wounded, injured, but Chris Chris Chris I'm sorry to interrupt you Chris people went out to vote a lot of people I don't know what you two are talking about you're looking for reasons to this year from all parties APC they were I work on radio I also do work I talked to people every night APC supporters were rallying themselves the night before the election PDB supporters were rallying themselves and now we have more parties that that seem to have a hundred people thousands sorry who pranked out all about the state APC PDP, LP to go register they wanted this this PVC tell me all of a sudden they woke up because of Nirra on that day they had that struggling all this while to go and register I won't go out to vote Chris it doesn't add up tell me another story I mean the challenges Chris, we went out to vote in their numbers, a lot of first time voters, their reports, they stopped taking shots of themselves. I've never voted before, it's my first time. Chris, that's what they said. Chris, I mean, just before you add in, I mean, just to add to that, really, to be very honest, we need to, because every other time we talk about people, voter apathy, we understand that that has been one thing that has been ongoing. But you see, prior to 2023, it's a good thing that we're here. And before the elections that have passed, there's been a lot of introduction, innovation, campaign awareness that has gone up. And we can say that the number of persons who turned out to vote was quite impressive. And for a lot of persons who didn't vote was not because they were not willing. Now, I know a lot of people, including block-related, very close, who went to their polling unit, but because of the, you know, thawgrey activity that went on, where people walked into the polling unit, started shooting randomly. People had to, you know, think about their lifestyles. We don't have too much time. So I know a lot of people who didn't vote. There are a lot of persons who even went every other time to the INEC office to get their PVCs. They were told that they couldn't get it. But people have PVCs. So, you know, a lot of people who didn't vote, not because they didn't want to vote. Now, Kofi, can I say this? Chris is under attack. Let me say that. You don't mean gender sensitive. No, I'm not saying, my point is, there were a lot of people, so as much as we want to say there were a lot of people who didn't want to vote, there are also other issues. So maybe we need to declassify the issue of voter apathy. Maybe we need to break it down and put it in a different style. We have to go, we have to go. Honestly, because... We have to go, Mercy. It's something we are here, and we have to get our guests back, talk about it again. But she said it, that she hasn't experienced somebody who has chased that way. But Chris Kennewando and Paul Ijime, we're glad to have had you. And of course, we look forward to more conversations and engagement as the results keep trickling in. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for your time. Paul Ijime and Chris Kennewando Esquire. Thank you. Appreciate your time. We'll take a break now. When we come back, we'll look at some of the reports about observers. We have two of them joining us. One from Podhakur, one from Ambuja. Of election 2023, what they observe. Because I mean, our observer has been to observe, right? So we'll look at that when we come back. Please stay with us.