 Should men do yoga? It's a great question. We men, we love to be tough and manly and masculine and lift weights. And yoga seems to be considered a very feminine kind of exercise, doesn't it? I've done a lot of yoga. I mean, I've done... I haven't done a lot of yoga compared to all the other exercise that I've done. But I still do equate it very much with being part of a feminine energy. Whenever I go to a yoga class, I'm only one of, like, a handful of guys and the rest of them are women. As a single guy, that's a pretty cool thing. But nevertheless, you still feel a little bit awkward on occasion, like, oh, I'm hanging out here with the girls, and they'll get me back into the Arnold Schwarzenegger room, you know, where I can lift some heavy weights. So what I'm going to talk about is yoga good for men. And to help us figure that out, I've got a gentleman who is about to join us by the name of Dean Pullman, who has created a company called Manflow Yoga. And he is a yoga expert and helps men do yoga and helps women as well. And today, we're going to talk about the benefits of yoga. How are you, Dean? Great to have you here. Yeah, I'm really excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Nice one. So how did you get into this? Like, what's your story? Where are you from? Where did you grow up? Like, how did you get into fitness and yoga? Sure. Well, I call myself a Midwestern mutt. I've said a lot of history in different states in the Midwest, but I got into yoga as an athlete, as a collegiate lacrosse player, and I literally stumbled into a yoga studio, a complete accident. I was trying to find a tailor, and I found a yoga studio instead. I asked them about the benefits of yoga, and if it would make sense for me to do it, they, of course, said, yes, it will help make you more tone. It will help with flexibility, with core strength. And I said, you know, why not? I'll try anything once. So I went in, tried it, got my ass handed to me by, you know, someone who didn't look that strong, but clearly was stronger than me in many ways. And I kept going back because of the physical challenge and just the demand that the exercise is required of my body. And I kept going back. I started teaching my lacrosse team, and they liked it, and I wanted to get more of my friends to do it, but they wouldn't do it. They were still stuck on this concept of yoga as a feminine form of exercise, as something that didn't really work on fitness, but was more something that was spiritual or meditative. So I slowly, just as a side hobby, started creating a brand of yoga that was focused on the physical and focused on improving physical fitness and focused on the technique involved in yoga rather than some of the other spiritual or meditative aspects that dominated the traditional view of yoga as our society and as most men perceive it. And eventually, the brand got big enough to the point where I started doing it full-time. And now my job is running an online yoga brand, so doing the social media, coming up with products, workout packages, and training people via webcam and writing e-books and creating yoga apps. So that's my story, the short version, and as it applies to you. And so is yoga continuing to grow, or how much is it growing? Because I remember it was considered a bit woo-woo back in the 70s. I remember there was a movie I was watching with Warren Beatty in it, and there were women doing yoga, and he was kind of making... I think it was shampoo or hair style. I think that was the name of the movie. Anyway, it was considered a very niche kind of thing, woo-woo. And now, 40 years later, it just seems like everybody's doing it. What has the growth been, and where is it headed? Well, I can tell you that yoga is growing, certainly. It's growing among men. It's about 25% of people that are doing yoga now are men, which is a pretty big statistic. I can't tell you exactly how much yoga is growing, but I can tell you that there are 40,000 registered yoga teachers by the Yoga Alliance, which is the main governing body, non-profit governing body of yoga. And I think there are about 3,000 teaching... 3,000 schools that teach yoga now. And that number is growing up, one because the demand for yoga is growing, but also because with the increased interest of yoga... By the way, I was just at the dentist, so if it sounds like I'm struggling to speak, it's because the left side of my face is numb. But because of the increased demand and because of that increased interest in the whole lifestyle of yoga, more and more people are becoming instructors and people are paying a lot of money to become a yoga instructor. So it's growing significantly because of that. Now, as far as growing into the spears of, let's say, yoga for physical fitness or yoga, that's outside of the spiritual or the traditionally meditative woo-woo of yoga, which is still in what I see, most of it is still woo-woo and spiritual, and it's hard to find that yoga for athletes or yoga for fitness class. So it's growing, but it's definitely growing a lot. I'll say that. Okay, so let me ask you this. I'll just come out and say it. Why should men do yoga? Yeah, so people, let's say men in particular should be doing yoga because there is no movement, there's no form of physical fitness that covers flexibility, that covers mobility, that covers core strength, that forces you to slow down and examine your body as you're doing isometric exercises like yoga does. It's very common that we go to the weight room and we lift weights, we do bench press, we do squats, but as we're doing those reps, very few people know that they should be doing them more slowly than they're actually doing them, and very few people spend the time that they should be spending on mobility or spending time on flexibility. And if they do spend that time on flexibility, it's only going to make them stronger in the weight room. It's only going to make them better athletes. It's only going to make them better lovers and less stressed, improve their breathing, improve their control over themselves, which helps to reduce stress, which helps them look at that extra meal or look at the snack and say, no, I don't need that. So there's so many benefits that go into it. Let's go into five. Flexibility is, I think, top three for sure. Now, flexibility, again, leads to more strength. There's more range of motion. When you have more range of motion, you have more power in your movements. You can reduce the risk of injury. So injuries like ACL injuries, MCL injuries, ankle injuries, hip flexor injuries, and even lower back pain and tightness can be caused by inflexibility in all those other areas of your body. Rotator cuff injuries are caused by a lack of range of motion and just lifting your arms overhead. So if we can address flexibility in those areas, we can help reduce the risk of injury. Number two, core strength. More specifically, core strength in terms of your whole body. So a lot of people go to the gym and they do crunches and they do their ab exercises, hanging from a suspended machine. But very few people go to the gym and do exercises, full body exercises, where they are focusing on using their core in conjunction with everything else going on in their body. So that's the second benefit. Strengthening pretty much from your mid thighs up to your sternum. So increasing your core strength, increasing that range of motion. Number three is a healthy spine. We don't spend a lot of time working on our spinal health. So the range of motion of our spine, how often do you see people going to the gym and doing a lift that involves squatting, standing up, and twisting to their full range of motion? Very seldom. So getting that range of motion of your spine is important for keeping range of motion in your spine into your later years. And also keeping your spine healthy. So if it does go to that extreme range of motion, it's not going to get injured. Your body's used to it and knows what to do in that position. Number four is, well let's say for guys, just because we're talking about guys, we'll actually talk about testosterone. Now there's a few reasons why, and a few theories why about why testosterone is improved when men are doing yoga. Number one is the movements involved. So applying pressure to the area around your pubic bone when you're doing exercises such as a cobra exercise or a back bend or an up dog helps to stimulate that area. It helps to increase testosterone. The other theory, and this is kind of cool and this is what I really like, when your body is in stress mode, when your body is producing cortisol, when it's stress, your body cannot as easily focus on creation or reproduction. So your body kind of shuts down that area because your body is too busy focusing on the stress on that fight or flight reflex. So if you can control your stress levels, you can increase your literally your creative or your reproductive potential. Number five I'd say is definitely the stress relief aspect of it. And the reason for that is because of the emphasis on breath and the emphasis on technique in your body. So when you're focusing on nothing but your breath and when you're focusing on technique which is very important in yoga because there's so many subtle changes in your body to be made in order to do the poses correctly that if you're not focusing on everything you're probably doing something incorrectly but just because that takes so much effort and so much brain power to focus on the technique at hand it takes your body off, it takes your mind off other things that are going on in your life, bills, relationship issues, let's say work issues and it allows you to relax and allows you to de-stress. So flexibility, core strength, range of motion in the spine, and the stress relief. Okay, so they all sound pretty good benefits to be honest with you. So here's my issue with it. Here's why things that I don't like and maybe you can counter it for me. I don't understand all these weird names that people are saying like I don't even know, like what is it? There you go. Whatever it is. I don't understand it. I don't want to understand it. I don't know. And when people are saying that I kind of like, I don't want to listen to this crap. I literally think it sounds like crap. I don't want to hear those words. Even like the upward dog, downward facing dog, I mean I get that, like I can understand that but these kind of like, what are they? Hindu names or something? Yeah, they're Hindu Sanskrit names. Okay, they make no sense to me and the mere fact that I can't recite them back to you even despite the fact that I've probably heard them like a hundred times makes, you know, should tell you everything that it just goes in one ear and out the other. Can you explain to me why this is such a, like what are these words? What do they mean and why are they so important in practicing yoga? Because if I'm feeling that resistance to it because of it, I'm sure there are some of my male listeners who are feeling something similar. Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad that you, there again, there's the anesthesia. I'm glad that you brought it up. So the reason why that Sanskrit terminology exists in yoga is because yoga is, you know, borrowed from, it's an Indian form of physical fitness, it's an Indian lifestyle that was developed, you know, hundreds of years ago. Now here's the cool thing, those actual, the poses, some of them were developed, I think, circa 15th to 19th century but the majority of the poses that we use in yoga classes today were actually not developed until the 20th century. And they were given Indian names, Indian titles, Sanskrit vocabulary to represent whatever they looked like. So for example, there's chair pose, there's upward facing dog, there is downward facing dog, there's awkward pose, there is, let's say, cobra pose. So there are all these poses that are named after... Warrior pose, well isn't it a warrior pose, I think? Warrior, yes. So there's all these pose names named after whatever, animals, historical figures would have you. And the only reason that people use them is because honestly, I think they like feeling special because they know the name. Okay. So it's kind of, it's this culture where people kind of are intrigued by the mysticism of it and so they use those names because they feel cool doing them. Now I for one couldn't care less about the Sanskrit terminology which is why I completely, I don't ban because I don't have anybody to order but I never use Sanskrit terminology in anything that I'm doing because for me that would be like me going to an English class and teaching it in Spanish. Right. It has no merit whatsoever, it makes no sense. So you use things like chair pose, upward facing dog and all those things though, you just don't use the Hindu name that they write. Correct. And I've actually renamed some poses to make them make more sense. So I can handle I guess warrior, cobra, awkward, upward facing dog, chair pose. I mean I can face it. I mean it's not, it's realistic, right? Because if you go to the gym you're lifting weights, it's like bench press, you know, I set the curl. I know what that is. So I guess, you know, cobra, warrior pose, upward facing dog, that makes sense as well. But it's all this chanting and these weird Hindu names that I'm like, ah, I'm just gonna, I'm always like, I'm not really into it. It doesn't inspire me to want to go back and do it a bunch of times. So my next question really is just to challenge this a little bit. Like I want to make sure I ask questions that I think my viewer or listener is thinking. But maybe a too polite to ask. You were talking about how yoga gives you flexibility, core strength, range of motion, testosterone, it relieves stress. But quite frankly, I can go to the gym and feel like I stretch beforehand and I get flexibility. I breathe, the mere fact of doing exercise means that I am relieving my stress because I'm breathing. When I go for a run I breathe through my nose, I breathe out through my mouth. When I'm in the gym I'm doing a high intensity 20, 25 minute workout. At the end of that I am gassed. I mean I'm like, because I've just lifted weights at an intense pace and interspersed cardio with it as well. So how is it any different? How is the stress relief benefits from yoga and the flexibility benefits from yoga and the testosterone benefits from yoga and the range of motion and the core strength any different than if I'm just doing a good array of weights at the gym and doing general exercise anyway. Sure. So the flexibility is really easy to answer because it takes your muscle anywhere from 15 seconds to two minutes to release to the point where it can start to lengthen. So if you're doing stretching beforehand that's not the same as doing flexibility work. You know, you going and doing, alright let me just grab my foot and stretch my quad or let me just arch my back a little bit. Sure, that's going into existing range of motion but that's not actually improving your range of motion. So yoga exercises will force you to improve the range of motion or to deepen your flexibility because you're holding those positions for a longer time. When you're weightlifting, you're not working on flexibility. You are using your existing range of motion but when you're weightlifting, you're not spending 30 seconds on trying to get more flexible in a certain position. Like when you do a curl for example, I'm not improving flexibility anywhere. I'm just contracting my muscles. I'm strengthening my muscles and that's essential to a good workout program either if you're using body weight resistance or weight training but you aren't actively improving the range of motion or the flexibility in your muscles and that's important because if you want to be able to go deeper into a squat, if you want to have a longer stride when you run, if you want to be able to do a deadlift and go all the way to the ground or most importantly and significantly in what I see, if you want to be able to simply lift your arms straight overhead without arching your back, that's something that you need to work on. That's not something that most people have. If you went to the gym and asked most people to stick their arms overhead without arching their back, they'd probably get right about here before their chest started to go like this in order to lift. Right, okay. Alright, so here's another question then. Thank you for explaining that. So just to be clear, when you're doing weights, you're using your existing range of motion but when you've been doing yoga or when you are doing yoga, you're increasing your range of motion and flexibility. So presumably once you've done yoga for long enough, when you then go back in and do weights you're going to have a larger range of motion and flexibility which will help you lift more weights which if you're a man at least wanting to put on size will help you put on more size. Okay, that makes sense. So the other hesitancy I have when it comes to yoga is well, I work out in the gym. I like to lift weights. I like to feel strong and, you know, I like the look of my muscles. There's a vanity part of it as well. I like to look good. I like the way that t-shirts fit on my body. And so I've always been concerned that if I start doing yoga and scale back the weights, then I'm going to lose size. Then I'm going to lose definition that all of a sudden I'm going to go back to being a little puny kind of person with tiny little muscles. So can you allay any of those fears? Well, let me ask, how often are you lifting? I lift weights probably four times a week. I'll do two days a week will be heavy and then the other two I incorporate the weights into an all-round, you know, high intensity. So for example, I'll do a chest and back day where I'm lifting as heavy as I can, it's a five, you know, very heavy. And then on the other days I will do, you know, just 35-pound dumbbells and I'm doing like a set of 15 and then I'm throwing some burpees in between and like I'm really getting a cross-training. Yeah, cross-training. And then I'll walk, I'll run once a week and I'll walk once a week and then I just take one day off where I do nothing at all, really just whatever, you know, just walking around doing my thing. Well, here's the thing. Just because you're not using weights doesn't mean that you're not contributing to building muscle mass. So physical therapists use isometric exercises to help patients recover from injuries. It's one of the best ways to building muscle, actually. And what yoga is, is essentially composed of isometric exercises and the movements from one isometric exercise to the other. So when you're doing yoga, it's not just working on flexibility. You're going to your full range of motion and then you're holding that position and you're using your core strength, you're using your leg strength in some cases, you're using your arm strength to hold your body weight up. So think of a wall sit, think of a plank. Think of, let's say, doing, going to the bottom of a squat and just holding it. Your muscles are under tension there. It's not like you're just working on flexibility and that's relaxing. It's tough. You know, you've been to a yoga class. You know that a lot of those things are hard to do. So as long as you're doing a yoga class that focuses on holding the poses for a long time, you have no reason to think that as long as you're doing weights in conjunction with yoga, that you would lose any muscle mass at all. In fact, I would bet that you would gain more muscle mass just because you're doing more to increase your flexibility, you're doing more to increase your range of motion and the overall attentiveness to your body to perform movements slowly and with more control, which is ultimately how you build muscle by build size. If your concern is with building muscle size, the best way to build size is not by going to the gym and doing bench press like this, but taking a lighter weight and going like this. Just slowly pushing back up. Yeah, my mate Mark Dahmer, who I've had on the show before, taught me, you know, like when you're lifting up, like push up explosively, but then when you bring it down, like count to five, like one, two, three, four, five. And that tension, that time where your muscles are under tension is where you get the most growth and then you kind of explode up powerfully really quickly. And then bring it down two, three, four, five. Bring it down like that. Yeah. Rather than... Right. So it depends on your goals. So if your goal is to gain muscle mass, it's slowly. If your goal, if you're an athlete and you want to build explosive power, then it's doing the movements quickly. It's doing box jumps. It's doing quick lifts or quick squats, which doesn't necessarily grow mass, but if your goal isn't to build muscle mass, then you're not going to do it slowly all the time. So how many times a week then? Let's just... I've given you my workout at the moment, right? It's two times heavy, two times high intensity, one run, one walk, one day of nothing, right? One rest. What should I do then if my goal really is to... I mean, I do want to increase my flexibility certainly, but I also want to keep my size. I'm not looking necessary to put on more weight, although I'm happy to put on a little bit more muscle, but I certainly don't want to lose any more muscle. What would you suggest would be a new weekly routine that incorporated yoga? Here's my questions. How much time do you have for each workout? And, well, that's the first question. How much time do you have for each workout? Well, I give myself an hour. It's always an hour. Okay. Do you think that you can finish your hour-long workout in 40 minutes? You mean my weight's workout? Your weight's workout. I can, yeah. Okay. So I recommend, and this is what I wrote a blog on this, but I recommend doing 15 to 20 minutes of yoga before you go lifting. So if you can put 15 to 20 minutes of yoga before you go lifting, and if we do one longer yoga session per week that focuses more on balance, that focuses on holding poses till failure, that lasts anywhere from 30 to 60 minutes, that's what I recommend, and that's not going to eat into your training schedule too much. So all I'm saying is put in 15 minutes of yoga at the beginning of your weights, throw in some restorative yoga, so that deep stretching that I didn't really touch on, but deep stretching and restorative yoga after you do your running or your cardio, and then one workout per week where you're just focusing on yoga, focusing on building more flexibility, focused on holding your poses for a longer time. Okay. So if I, let's just say that I ignored the first part about doing the 15 minutes before I do the weights. I'm not saying that I will, let's just say I did for time's sake, right? But I was willing to do one yoga workout per week. Is that going to make considerable difference in my life if I'm just doing one solid hour, hour and a half yoga session per week? Is that going to change things for me dramatically? It will make your body feel better, but it will not significantly increase anything. I think it will make your body feel better, but it's not going to do much for increasing your flexibility or increasing your core strength. I think that at a minimum, you need to be doing it twice per week. Okay. So a minimum of twice per week, and you're saying that if you do 15 minutes of yoga stretching before a workout, rather than what I do at the moment, which is I do about eight to 10 minutes of stretching, which is not really yoga, but I do like, you know, Spider-Man lunges and I've got my back up against the wall and I'm moving my hands up and opening my spine. I'm doing all those kinds of, I mean, I don't know if they're considered yoga poses. A guy called Eric Cressy told me how to do this. Eric Cressy helps rehabilitate major league baseball pitches in his place in the side of Boston, very famous. Is that, I mean, are those kind of stretches that I just described, are they sufficient or are you saying that, and are they considered yoga or are they not considered yoga? Well, here's the thing, a lot of those exercises are considered yoga. They're just not called yoga. Movement is movement. So whether I call a push-up, a push-up, or a Chaturanga doesn't make it any different. In terms of, again, so what you're doing is warm-up. What you're doing now is warm-up. It's getting you into your range of motion and it's helping prepare you for the workouts so that you don't injure yourself so that your muscles are warmed up. But it's not, I don't think it's significantly improving your flexibility or allowing you to check in with your body. And I've said that a couple of times, but let me just say what that means. It means checking in with your body and noticing where your shoulders are when you're doing a plank. It means what are your arms and your shoulders doing when they're out at the sides? What is your knee doing in relation to your hip or your foot? So just doing those slow movements allows you to check in with your body more and be more tentative to form which is going to help you become stronger, more flexible, and less prone to injury. So doing the yoga exercises beforehand is going to help you increase your flexibility and increase your range of motion. Whereas it sounds like what you're doing now is good for preventing the risk of, or lessening the risk of injury in your workouts. But it's not, you know, it's getting you to hear and you're just staying there. It's not really improving, at least from my interpretation. Okay. Okay, we're talking to Dean Pullman who's a creator of Manflow Yoga. What are some other benefits besides what you just talked about? A range of motion, flexibility, testosterone, stress relief. I can tell you, one of them is that if you're a single guy, it gets you around women. There's a lot more women. And even if you're a woman or a man, it is very relaxing, isn't it? Like there's a social component to it as well. You're all doing it in a group kind of setting. At the end of it, you can talk about it. Whereas if you go to the gym by yourself, you kind of just get in, get your business done and then you sort of get out again. Whereas yoga, it seems to be more like a community and more like a sharing, being more social. Is that fair to say, Dean? Well, it depends on how you're doing it. If you're going to a class, absolutely. If you're joining it along to one of my apps or my videos, no. There's not the social component involved. But what I will say is it's a different kind of high. You finish your weightlifting workout and you're exhausted. You feel great. I think my bicep looks right now. But you're exhausted and you want to eat a ton of food. You're like, all right, I need your food. Give me a protein shake right now. When you finish a yoga workout, you feel more relaxed. I've heard one friend say, ready to slay a dragon? You finish and you still have some energy. It can help to elevate your mood. Whereas I think weightlifting is kind of draining at times. So there's different highs. I'll say that. Anything else besides those benefits? There's a lot of really interesting benefits. People talk, I've read multiple studies and a lot of these studies have come out of a book called The Science of Yoga by William Broad. In studies done, they've done studies on yoga in terms of your VO2 max or in terms of your lung capacity or your rubber capacity. They've also asked, well, what else do you feel? The response, the unflinching or the dominant response from everyone that responded was that they feel better and they feel more content with themselves. So they're happier because they're doing yoga. I guess there's many theories on why, but in my research, what I've seen is that it's just because of the movements involved in yoga that make you feel better. So that allows you to be a happier person with whatever you have. So if you're an entrepreneur and you're struggling to make yourself known and to impress your parents or impress your family or impress your friends, you feel more content with what you've been able to do. So it makes you ultimately happier overall. So that's just one benefit. But a couple of other benefits that are of note. One was that it helped musical performers be more confident when performing. So just the stress relief aspect, maybe it's the movements that are involved in yoga. But in a, I think they did a, I forgot what school they did the study at, but nine out of 10 musicians are naturally, here's how it went. Every musician reported that they were more confident or more relaxed when they were performing solo. And nine out of 10 students said that they would continue with their yoga practice after the study was done. So there's another kind of just random benefit or random reason because you'll be a better performer. So if you're a speaker, that's a really good thing to have, being able to relax more. Number three, what's another interesting benefit of yoga? We talked about the physical, we talked about the mental. Creativity is actually a huge one. So when your body is, when you're stressed, it's very hard for you to be creative. Your mind doesn't relax enough to the point where you can use the creative side of your brain. So what yoga does, and I just saw an article, Christina Aguera is using yoga to help inspire her new album, or something came out like that, like last week. And there's documented cases and musicians. I just saw Sony Rollins. The jazz legend has been doing yoga since the 1950s to help with his creative abilities. So yoga helps to take away stress that allows you to feed your creative mind. So that's another really cool benefit. Okay. All right, so there you have it. There are some, some reasons for you. If you are skeptical about yoga to dive right in, you've got flexibility, your core strength improves, it increases your range of motion, especially in the spine. It raises your testosterone if you're a man. That's very good for stress relief. Apparently you can gain more muscle mass because you're able to, because you've been able to increase your flexibility and your range of motion. It's good from a social point of view when you're going and doing it in a class. And it improves your overall creativity. So certainly when I recently came back from my trip overseas, I said, you know what, when I come back to my place in LA, I'm going to make sure I increase the yoga that I do to one a week. So I'm certainly going to do that. I'm going to do that at the Equinox gym there on Sunset Boulevard. I actually saw David Beckham there the other day. It's a bit of a celebrity star sighting place at Equinox gym and I worked out next to the rock about six weeks ago. So some pretty famous people there. And so I'm going to do one of those a week for sure. And what I might do is I might look at a few more of those yoga poses and start incorporating them as an experiment, as a test into the beginning of my workouts. I like to test things. So I will test it. I'm also a little stubborn. So when I get set in my ways, I'm kind of like... Most men are. Yeah. But I will certainly test it out and give that a try. And if you are on the fence, make sure you check out manflowyoga.com. You can get Dean on Instagram as well. His Instagram account is manflowyoga. His Twitter account is manflowyoga. So send a tweet right now if you're listening to this, wherever you are, or watching this. And send him a tweet out now. Dean, thank you so much, man. I appreciate your time. James, thank you for having me. Is there anywhere else besides those places where our viewer and listener can reach you, besides manflowyoga.com? Sure. Oh, I have the Manflow Yoga app available. So if you're on Apple or if you're on Droid, that's a free download. And that actually has a pose guide and a routine section. So if you're looking to learn the poses, it teaches you, I think, about over 100. I think there's about 105 poses. Just list the technique step-by-step instructions to doing the poses correctly. What are targets? Why would you want to do it? Practical benefits. And I would also look at my website and take a closer look at my Yoga Basics for Men starter's package, which involves six highly targeted workouts, 20 to 25 minutes. The Yoga Basics for Men ebook, which was the number one bestseller in four categories on Amazon. And a bonus 18-minute core workout. So those are my number one resources for getting started with Yoga and what I recommend to everybody who comes my way. Okay. I'm looking on the Manflow Yoga app right now. Let's have a look here, man. Cool. I'm putting it in my phone. Let's see what comes up here. There we go. Get install. There you go. I'll show you right there. I'm installing it right now, Dean. Boom. Nice. All right. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate your time, Dean. This has been very educational. You've inspired me to get up off my ass and go and do a little bit more yoga. Thank you very much. Fantastic. And to you, the viewer and the listener, thank you so much for watching and listening. Get into some yoga. It'll get you to increase your flexibility and build your muscles a little bit more as well. Relieve your stress. And I'll catch you on the next one. See you later.