 Good morning to you and welcome back. It has been such an awesome and educative talk with Val and an interview that they were talking about cardiovascular disease at CDC. It has been affecting quite a number of people. Let's take a shift and change things. Let's talk about youth and politics. Last week we began a topic youth and leadership. It ended up being a heated debate. It has been a request that we take a look into it deeply and intensely. Today we'll be looking at a different angle. We'll be looking at what's the place of youth in Mata's leadership. That's what we'll be focusing on and to join us and try to demystify the mystery behind youth and leadership. I'm joined by three young people and youthful, very young and energetic this morning. Passionate and patriotic too. Great. We began from Mata Kabura who is right next to me. She's the secretary general of Mount Kenya University. She's not the secretary general rather but the Mount Kenya University deputy chair on Nairobi campus. She's also the coordinator of world merit Kenya national programs. Ya. I'm a saint sana. Ya, I'm delighted to talk and handle the issue about youth and leadership in our country. Great. Right next to him is none other than Muthiora Karyarawel. Some of us know him. He has been here several years. He's a former deputy presidential candidate. It's always a pleasure being here. Y254 is a channel for the young people of Kenya. So anytime when you'd like to talk about leadership, I have to show up. I engineer too. Kabisa. Right. You're most welcome. And right next to him we have Andrew Shonko and leader who is the leader of young entrepreneurs. And Haso Yangu Karibusana. Thank you so much. Are you related to Mike Sonko? No, I'm not related actually. But I think he took my name. You never took his name? No, I never took his name. He took my name. And actually when we come to the issue of leadership, it's our business. And we take our business very seriously. Yes. Right. You just hold on the mic at the middle. Thank you. Yes. At the middle. Ya. When we talk about the issue of leadership, it's very important to us. And it's our business and we have to discuss it and try to mystify it as well as we can. So that we can be able to see how we can change what we can do. Alright. I want us to begin not necessarily on the topic of the day. But I want us because all of us young, I want us to talk about the issue of the money charge thing. It has become a talk for over some few months now. And the deputy president just yesterday, he said that he's okay. Let's not be regulated. Let us give this money. And yet the ethics and anti-corruption commission came up. Clearly and said we are ploding the Catholic church and the bishops for coming up with such an idea. So junior, what do you think about that? Should we continue? Are we justified to say that let's not take money to the church? I don't see any issue when money is being contributed to the church. If the people who are going to contribute the money have clear motive. The issue comes when now we have politicians and other people who have no interest of the people. But they're using fundraising as a part of their strategy for campaigning and for publicity. Has this been used, let me just go to Kariera. Has this been used as a way of corruption in Kenya? You see when you steal money, it's difficult if systems work to put it back into circulation to wash it as they say. So giving it to the church is a way of laundering it. And the way that that works is when you give contributions in church, it buys you influence. So you're using illegitimate money to buy influence and political mileage. That cannot be allowed to happen because it's illegal. That's money laundering in itself. So corruption being the cancer that has affected Kenya since independence. If a move to cut on it is given by the church, it should be supported. Let us try and effect it and see how far we can go with it rather than undermine it. Should the church regulate on how it's being given money by politicians? Well, what the church should focus on is the core business, which is winning souls. A community builds a church because they know they need that church. We should not be left to the politicians to do that job. I don't see why we should wait on a politician from Nairobi to come build a church down in the village for us. Let us live within our means. Let us strategize long term. Fund raise in bits till we have enough to build a church that's good enough for us. Let us not wait on politicians to loot so they can come share the loot with us in building the house of the Lord. Let me have Andrew. What's your take on the issue of the church versus the state in terms of politicians? For me, I think it's an issue of give and take. What are you giving me and what am I taking from you? Like what my colleague is saying here, when you give money to the church, of course there is something that they expect in return. Let's say, for example, the congregation that will be there, they'll be able to influence them and may be able to get that platform to speak to them. But then again if you look at the kind of money that maybe the church is getting in return, is it really for the purpose of building the church? Is it really for the purpose of building the body of Christ, for example? Is it really helping the church to be able to reach whatever they want or maybe even that money in itself is coming to the church to help not only the church, but maybe to some few individuals? I think that is the big question that we need to ask to ourselves. Maybe giving is not a problem, but what is the motive behind giving that money and bringing that cash to the house of the Lord? Alright, and of course you as our viewer, we give you the opportunity to share your views and comments through our social media platforms that is on Facebook at Y254. On our Twitter handle it's Y254 channel. Of course my Twitter account handle it's K underscore Alex. You can interact with us on all those social media platforms and of course our SMS line is 20154 setting with the word Y254. Right now I want us to dive into the topic of the day that is youth and leadership and I want us to begin from you. Andrew, what's the place of youth in leadership? For me I think youth ought to play a very important role when it comes to the matters of politics, but if you look at our social political system in our country, does it actually allow or give the youth that chance to be able to be of great importance to the politics of the nation? If you look at the number of youths that are, let's say for example in the National Assembly or in the Senate, you'll be able to see like there are very very little number of youths that are there and those who are actually there, are they actually pioneering or are they actually pushing the agendas of the youth or they are just there to push the agendas of those who brought them into politics because if you see how our politics has been put for you to be able to get actually be able to reach to that state of being able to be in politics in our country, it has to take you someone else for you to be able to be there. So for me I think the youth actually have a lot on their table and on their court to be able to push the agenda of the youth but systems have to have to be altered and be able to see how even the motions that are put in place, they support the agendas of the youth, the youths are supported, not that whatever motion they bring is only good on paper, where are the action? Alright Andrew, what's the place of youth because you have talked generally about the place, the open space that is there and the ones that are currently there, but what's the place? I think the place of the youth in our society is actually to be able to push for the agenda that actually affects the youths. The youths for example if those who are already in leadership they need to come up with motions that actually and builds that support the youths, those youths that are in business, a good number of youths are in sports, are they coming up with motions and also with issues that will actually be able to support their fellow youths to see that they have risen to the position and to the standard that they actually belong. Alright, I want to begin. What he is trying to say is the place for the youth is at the table, not to be the menu but as to be the partakers of the dinner that's been served. Everything rises and falls on leadership. The youth are the majority in Kenya. That means we deserve to be at every platform where decisions are made. We've arrived at a point where we must come out very strongly and tell those in authority that if they do not respect our existence then they should expect our resistance and we are coming for them. They've taken us for granted and we've had it. We need value, we need service delivery, we need for our voices, not just be heard but also to count for something. Alright, Muthira, last week we had the same topic about youths being recipients instead of being partakers and partners in matters national leadership. Where do we lie as young people? Currently we are at the very bottom of the pyramid. They step on our shoulders to get to their selfish interests and that must now come to a stop. We are organizing. We already have information. Our level of education is at a point where we are able to make the important decisions that we need to make. What we need to do as the young people is to keep coming forward and educating those of us who are still a little ignorant that this nation belongs to us. We must make deliberate actions that will move us forward. Kenya can be great and the only way that it will be great is if it harnesses its youth. They are a potential that should be harnessed. They are not a problem to be solved as we see those in power today try to do. I want you to respond to the first question about what is the place of youth in leadership and also join it together with how young people express the opportunities that are there. To start with, I am delighted by the youth who have taken challenging positions in leadership but also as youth, once we get the position, we should utilize them so that maybe we can help even the upcoming generation because we have seen the decision making process we are not involved. Recently we had the BBI and in the whole commission we didn't see any youthful person in the commission. When it come to decision making we are not involved. And also after now we are being involved in some issues but not all. Our place is usually in the kitchen but not in the dining when they are dining. And to resist being used by politicians for their selfish gains because we have seen the issues of the youth being not addressed. Simply because we are used by politicians we are being given handouts and after they get what they wanted to get and they get into power they forget about us. Mata, have we as young people discovered our value because we have talked about being given some handouts. I think the youths are failing because mostly we are being enticed by what we see by the short term gains and we forget about the long term implications of the decision that we make today. So you find that the youths mainly they lack education they lack there is not enough creation of awareness of the implications that may come in the future if we make the wrong decision today. So I think also the youths are failing and we should step up as youths of this country. Alright, Andrew. I think also if you look at the countries that have reasonable democracy you'll be able to notice that they are reasonable representation of the youths when they come to the matter of decision making and if you look at our country for example most of the youths have become what we call decision takers the decision is made up there and the only thing the youths will be able to do is only to be able to implement what they have decided so if they have decided maybe something that does not favor the agenda of the youth then that is what they will be implemented and they will need impact and now we need actually to change that and be able to see youths actually being able to be represented in all avenues look at the commissions that we have in Kenya if you look at the number of youths that are there look at the youth ministry for example who are leading the affairs of the youths people who are actually so old I don't know what's wrong we need actually to a point give this youth these chances when will they grow if they are not given chances you say that like we give you chances and you don't perform but give someone a chance let them perform, let them grow give them avenues to grow let them be able to air their views let them be able to follow up let's see action being done let's be able to see things moving from one point to the other look at our politics right now we are in that stage whereby we are transitioning from the old guys let's say from 1992 what democracy up to now we have those people who entered into leadership then if you look right now we are trying to transit from them not to the youth and we have a couple of youth that are there and our hope is that youths will be able to rise the resistance is there and only those who will overcome the resistance are the ones who will be able to make it to the next level of leadership you didn't mention about an open space that has not been given to young people do you think we have an open space for young people it doesn't exist but one thing we must embrace is the fact that power is never given it's taken so the young people must continue to organize and organizing doesn't have to be national start at that very low level where you have influence talk to your neighbors talk to your friends how you hang out with how best can we do this in terms of organizing ourselves how best is young people can they come out and say we don't want this but we want us to be having this how best we know what our biggest problem is is young people and that is an employment which means if things do not change then we are staring at a lifetime of poverty so let us mobilize around the issue of creating jobs for the young people if I am a mason let me hang out with my fellow masons let's form groups that will eventually translate into cooperatives and circles and then let us lobby government institutions to make policies that are friendly for us so we can thrive that's how we need to proceed we need to be very selfish we need to tackle the politicians when they come to us and demand that they have something that's going to further our interests economically our main problem today has to be just one and that is fighting poverty alright I want to come back to you Maafa you mentioned about building bridges initiative and it's a nine point agenda that was the part of inclusivity and my question is is this a song that we keep on singing about inclusivity or how far has the government gone in implementation inclusivity especially for the youths it's just a talk that we keep on talking but we don't see action implemented being implemented because you see during the BBI process and other forums that have been in yes we are saying that we want to include the youths in decision making youths in ABCD issues but now it is so clear everyone can see in the national television the commissioners were all over we didn't see any youth even the women representation was not you know we are supposed to have the 50-50 women representation but now to that but now we want to push it to be 50-50 because I believe what a man can do we can also do it we'll discuss that next time so according to you we have not even gone even a minor implementation is really failing Muthiro or rather let me just ask Andrew I know that you are relating with young people and he mentions something about unemployment in Kenya and you have begun an initiative what do you think about this whole issue I think that is the elephant in the house and for you to be able to tackle and bring down any elephant you have to break it down and into small pieces so that you can be able to be able to swallow it and when you talk the issues of unemployment that is something that is in a house in everywhere let's say even for example if you look at the rallies that we normally have how many people will you see at those rallies if those guys are employed will they actually be there just look for example the other day we had at Resambo the youths were running imagine if those people were employed they wouldn't be there they would be somewhere else working and be able to build this country so for me for example for me I think we need to put in policy that actually supports youth in terms of even businesses we need to be able to give youths let's say for example if it's loans and be able to do a follow up and to see they have started their businesses how will these businesses be able to thrive how will their businesses be able to go for and even come up with something that I'm drafting right now and be able to see can we be having youth entrepreneurship summits even in our county level is this something that the county government can be able to buy into and be able to support these youths no matter how small it is let them form small groups and be able to support them and do a follow up on what they are doing in the resources that you have provided for them alright let me ask you this question because I don't want to ask it at the tail end of the show let me ask you mentioned about policies what are some of these policies that according to you believe if they were tabled they'd really be effective if they were really even implemented we can have business policies that give a conducive environment in which the business will be conducted for example if the government is let's say in the county level for example if they come up with a kitty or we can have for example the one we normally have for CDF we can have an entrepreneurial kitty that can be able to support the youth when it comes to the matters of business and then maybe they can be able to get channels in which they have ready markets that are provided right now agribusiness is doing so well but you find the biggest challenge that is there it's the market you do a very good business you have the product but the market is there can we have avenues whereby these people form groups they have a good leadership whereby after they do their harvest they have a ready market somewhere that has already been sorted out and their products can be sold and from there they can grow themselves from one point to the other alright I'm loving your opinion Muthiora the issue of unemployment we always imagine when we talk about youth and matters leadership let's deviate for just a minute and not only constitute on politics but look at leadership in general do you think companies value youthful leadership I know of a lot of companies that value youth leadership because they realize that to move forward you need the passion and enthusiasm that comes with youth and the most successful companies even just here in Kenya are youth led they are youth propelled so what we need to do is to translate the same to government these are beautiful entities the government needs to borrow what the private sector is doing because the private sector keeps making profits because they adopt the right structures and procedures can we say that could be the reason to why most people believe that the government is failing well that is part of the reason so they are quite a number of reasons they keep recycling people who have proved from time immemorial that they cannot deliver well he has been added another three years I would say Muthiora if we look at his track record when he served in Kibaki's government Kenya experienced tremendous growth economically so looking at his track record we can say he fits the bill but the question is isn't there someone else who can do what Muthiora has been doing or do it even better especially if they are younger cause younger people are known to have more energy they are known to be more passionate mother let's hear mother is there anyone who can come in and fit in the place that Muthiora is right now I think we have a lot of youth who are capable but it's only that they are not being given the platform the opportunity cause most of these decisions are made in the bedroom and I'm sorry to say because you never know the procedure or maybe the the qualification but they want to find in a person it is who knows who it is a culture if your father was a prime minister is your father was a minister then you are going to be put in the position but it is not a matter of merits it's an issue of dynasty of politics is emerging here but I know Andrew you want to respond to that I wanted to jump into that I think if it was my opinion I would say if you are above 60 just leave it to them give the youth a platform these guys can do something if given a chance they just need a chance to show what they can do just give them a chance people believe in you that's why you're here today believe in them, nurture them the time like let's say for example when let's say Muthiora we have nurtured someone else when getting out at least there is someone who can pick up on them but recycling recycling all the time times are changing we are moving so fast even in a digital world things are changing so fast and if you don't change with time time will tell let me just add something and please take this very seriously it's a radical move radical measures to be taken I want every young person who will be attending any meeting or rally or whatever gathering should any old government official come and tell you to employ yourself boot them out of stage do whatever it takes to make sure that they will not continue to address that gathering this is a message from Muthiora Kareyara to all the young people in Kenya anyone who has served for more than 10 years has no moral authority to tell the young people to employ themselves why do you think so they should show us by example they have circled from the teats funded by the taxpayers so they should let us figure our way out of this they should not come to pontificate on us I hope you are getting the message yes I am just because it's given to us it doesn't mean it's palatable all the time some of the prescriptions they give they cannot take them themselves so right now let us say no to BS when it's given to us mother what's your take it is so saddening that sometimes bank I was in a forum and we were with one of the CS and she was asked to go and get papers to get education but after we've gotten education and papers we don't get employed she told the youth you should be self employed then we were asking if we were supposed to be self employed why don't we just get the technical skills that we need to set up businesses and the CS shamingly said education is for the sake of education alright where are we heading as a nation and the CS is at 60 or maybe above 60 and she is saying on national television that education is for the sake of education as youth where are we heading alright Andrew where are we heading because with what she has raised it's quite a point of concern education seems to be taking preeminence in the country where everyone believes especially with the new introduction of CBC where do you think we are going is education really relevant yes how to say so education is good it's good to be informed and it's good to have it but if you have it and it can't actually play any role when it comes maybe to the matters to the matter of appointment I don't see how relevant it will be because let's say if it's not on the basis of qualification it's on the basis of who is who the relationship you have with the person who is on the throne then it will not be relevant in anything that you are saying we are saying in this matter alright unfortunately time is not on our side but I want to give each and every one of us a minute just to do the parting shot or actually 30 seconds because of time okay well about education the value has never been in question what we should blame is corruption because corruption makes a mockery of quality and standards it makes merity relevant please if you are young and out there and in school get a book sometimes get even two books read improve on your skills get better that education will open doors for you and for the others who are in Nairobi and along the path from Nairobi to Mombasa will be cycling towards Mombasa for the Moshu Jadis celebrations starting from tomorrow we are adding Kenyans to be patriotic to value their lives and hold their leaders to account that's what the young people must do let's love Kenya as would love our own families alright Andrew briefly because of time the parting shot I think for me I can say like those youths who are already in leadership they need to stand out they need to do it because they are already there and they need to pioneer the issues of the youths those who are not already in leadership let them rise no matter the waves no matter what come through them they will get there trust the process and things are changing and we need to change with times I will add the government to create a fair ground when it comes to national politics because we find the youths when they want to get into leadership the nomination fee at the party the IBC fee is too high for the youths so let the government do something about it and also youths we should take a challenge to get into leadership start from where you are no matter how small it is no matter maybe the institution maybe university at your workplace that is where we start heading towards thank you very much for making time for us we really appreciate your coming they say that let young people rise and take their place but this is my thing it is just something that I am thinking of a fish well performs well in the water how best can young people perform and yet they are not inside my name is Karanja Alex join me these on every Monday as we discuss matters youth and politics well value is coming up next don't go anywhere these is 1254