 You're welcome back to The Breakfast on Plus TV Africa. The Progressives Governors Forum held a meeting on Sunday and that's to discuss matters arising regarding the All Progressives Congress and the legality of the main Malabuni-led caretaker committee in the All Progressives Congress. Now this issue has generated lots of controversy in recent time and that's because of that Supreme Court judgment that seemed to just tip the scales. And we've invited a lawyer, Mr Abhayami Alagbada, to shed more light on this. Good morning, Mr Alagbada. So this particular issue remains a highly controversial one and when that Progressives Governors Forum met on Sunday, the results of their discussion was that they were going to wait for the President who's currently in the UK to come back before they make any decision. But before the President returns, talking about this matter, I want us to consider the legality of Bhuni being the chairman of the APC Caretaker Committee because I remember quoting the APC constitution as well as a constitution of Nigeria to APC members who seem to debate that issue about the legality of Bhuni's chairmanship. It's article 17 of the APC constitution which says that no officer in any organ of the party shall hold any executive position in government. And section 183 of the Nigerian constitution also went on to say that a governor shall not, within the period where he holds office, go ahead to hold any other executive position. But it seemed that the challenge here was to determine if the position of a chairman caretaker committee is an executive position. Is there a way for you to help us unbundle that and to determine if, when it should in fact, under the law, be a chairman of that caretaker committee as a sitting governor? Well, thank you for having me. I think the proper way to start is to look at the decision of the Supreme Court, which will seem to have made a big... Go put the kind of wall. Yes, yes. The law, as I know it, is that the majority decision of the Supreme Court, or a court, for instance, in the Court of Appeal, you have three justices. If two decides on a position and one dissents, it is the majority that is the decision. Now, in this case, you had a several-man panel, and then you have the position of the four. Now, people are discussing the minority position. The position as we have it today, the law as it relates to Akiri Dulu and Jege De, today, is the position of the four-man panel. Sorry, the four men in the majority side. And that decision is very simple. They are saying that Akiri Dulu was properly presented as the representative of the HPC. Buni, who is, I agree, is sitting governor, has not done anything in contradiction to what the provisions of Section 182 of the Constitution, or 183 of the Constitution says. Now, look at a governor, Fahemi. Governor Fahemi is a sitting governor in Akiti State. Governor Fahemi is the leader or is the chairman of the governor's forum in Nigeria, actually. If Fahemi can hold those two positions together, what makes Buni different from Fahemi? Well, I'm coming somewhere. I'm coming somewhere. The reason I'm saying this is it is a catechic committee. It is doing that in an acting capacity. Now, look at your family, for instance. There's zero in on the family. You have your family routine on a daily basis. That's a particular way you do your thing. And then all of a sudden you decide to change in a different direction. Can you stranger to your family question what you have done? That is the argument for me. Because for me, this is an arrangement within the HPC. There is a situation on the ground. The former chairman had to leave. And you know, even nature itself doesn't allow for vacuum. Somebody has to step in, even if it is an acting company. This is what Buni is not receiving payment. I think the extension of that section 183 is that is Buni being remunerated for what he's doing? The answer is no. But we do not know that. The answer is no. I can tell you from where I sit. Now, you see, internal decisions of a political party remains their problem. A member of that party can challenge it because it's a member of the party. When a total stranger, and then don't forget, this is, we're looking at an election petition. Election petition is very narrow. Very, very narrow. All we are looking for is what the election conducted. The parties who contested the election where they properly presented, and the party who was declared winner, properly declared. Those are the issues. But when we look at the judgment, do you realize that one of the issues that is raised is the fact that Jagadar failed to join Buni in that suit? No, the other could not have even joined Buni. Buni is a sitting governor. He has humility. The reason why I mention that is that when you look at the fact of a career to lose candidate chair of the All Progressive Congress, it was May Malabuni that actually signed his nomination form. So that's why the PDP said that's something they should have done. Join Buni as one of the, in the suit. But it's just that these four men panel, or rather the four to three gentlemen said that, well, the APC was joined, so that really covers Buni. Section, I think it's clause 17e of the Supplementary Regulation and Guidelines for the Conduct of Election. It's a regulation by the INEC. It says that only the national chairman of the party and the national secretary can submit names of their contestant or candidates. Now that is a regulation. But if you read section 188, 1, or 2 of the Electoral Act as amended, 2010, it says that regulations, even though they are, they are not abided by, even though they are contradicted against, cannot on their own invalidate an election. See, these are, these are legal issues that have already been taken care of by the relevant laws. Now, if JGD has a problem with the election, that problem has to be within the confines of that election, not the process of APC. I think we should be focused on what we are arguing here. The process within which APC operated is their problem. Yeah, well, so the, the challenge, you know, and I think the reason this is coming up is, yes, Zachary Doulou's case brought it to limelight and, you know, raised these questions, you know, but the, the, the ideas, you know, and the conversation started to be of, because of future elections, 2020 elections should be Boni's presence as chairman of that committee, be, you know, should it remain that way so that they don't continue with these legal battles, you know. That is the only sense of these governors coming together. Yeah. You know, to address the issue. The main thing, you know, like you said, is that he's not receiving salary, you know, he's head of the committee and is not, you know, under any paying, which I believe we'll still have to look deeper into. But now they have mentioned that they're waiting for President Mahmoud Abouyari to, of course, give a decision concerning this. Why do you think that is? If the law already states what exactly is right and what is wrong, do we still need to wait for the president? It goes back to what I said earlier. I said, this is a family issue. Look at your own family. You have your wife, you have your children. You direct the affairs of your family in the manner you didn't fit. Now, a total stranger cannot come in and tell you, this is what you do. Well, including Faisal Skoyamou in this. Well, I don't want to go into Faisal Skoyamou's position. Well, we would raise it because it's important. The issue for me, the issue for me is that the president is the leader of the APC. Decisions that has to do with the APC. Of course, the leader has to know about it. So if they're saying they're waiting for the president, they are only saying our leader has to be on ground. Let's address it as a family issue, do you understand? I am sure that if Koyamou sits down with the leaders of the party and the president, there will be an arrangement that will be put in place to checkmate all of this in the future. That is what I think. But I don't see why this argument is stretching and the manner is stretching. Because these are issues that generally can be dealt with within the APC. But how do you respond to Faisal Skoyamou's statement that the Supreme Court judgment has just weaponized those who might be aggrieved by the APC to go ahead and challenge, you know, any congresses that might be conducted in the future? I don't know who would do that because, you see, the position that most people are taking is the minority position, it's not even the law. It's not the law. The decision of the majority is the law. So if my Lord Egyembe Aiko has gone to town to incorporate principles of employment, because my Lord said because APC is represented, then Buni doesn't have to be sued. The principle of vicarious liability applies with the greatest respect to my Lord. I don't agree. This is election petition we are talking about. It's very narrow. You cannot incorporate all of those principles into this position. I don't agree. So my position remains that the position anybody should take in respect of this matter is the majority position, not the minority. That is the law. You see, dissenting views are for future. The Supreme Court can come tomorrow and say, oh, we are reversing ourselves. We want to take a look at the dissenting position. That is the Supreme Court. Isn't that a huge enough risk to consider if the Supreme Court takes that decision back? The question you asked me is, how many times has the Supreme Court? Yeah, well, if there is that possibility at all, isn't that too much of a risk to take going into elections? You see, like I said earlier, the political environment as we have it today is already charged. People on the other side of the APC are looking for weaknesses to hold on to. The court is supposed to be a neutral body. Look at the law as it is. State the law as they are and move forward. Now, there is no reason why judges should not dissent. Of course, if you disagree with your learned brother, you dissent. But you see, in dissenting, we have to be very careful. What I have seen in the minority position of that court is not something that should have come up. What do you expect when the president returns? Well, I expect that he will tidy up things. If after the taking steps, the governor's are meeting, I'm sure this issue will be addressed. See, in nature abode's vacuum, we need has to come in because there are substantive chairman to leave. What the mistake here for me was that, oh, maybe some people did not sit down properly to think, oh, this man is a sitting governor that may be an issue. But again, it's perfect. Things happen every day. Even in our individual lives, we take decisions sometimes that we have to look at again and review. So let's not over-label or belabel this issue. So just finally, right? There's the contrary opinion about the morality. If we've done our checks and balances and says, I said, okay, maybe the law says it's legal. But when we look at the moral angle, and analysts say it is politically suicidal for the APC to allow Boonee to continue to be chairman of the caretaker committee, with all this controversy, would you advise that Boonee steps down? No, Boonee doesn't have to step down. The party should take a decision. Or should the party go ahead and constitute a national working committee? Of course, but the party will do that. I think that's the direction they're taking. That will be the solution to this crisis. In my mind, yes, because, you see, most of the people are agitating against this structure, this present structure. Are people just looking out for weaknesses to bring down the APC, and particularly to attack the person of the president? You don't have to agree with the president on every issue. He's the president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria today. Things happen every day. Our responsibilities as citizens is to ensure that things work in Nigeria. So leave individual party problems for the party, even the PDPs having their own issues. I didn't resolve it when we were the other. So why are we making the APC issue a national discourse? Is a political party anyway? They will make mistakes, and they will convene to correct themselves. Let us stick to the law. The law is that Akira Dole was properly elected as governor. Let nobody bring in extraneous arguments to kill the law. Okay, so let's wait and see how that national working committee will be constituted. Remember the whole crisis that occurred in 2020, regarding that to the NWC and its dissolution. But Mr Abayomi Alagbada lawyer, thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with us on this issue. I'm grateful. Thank you for having me. All right, and that's where we will be wrapping up our discussions this morning on the breakfast. So if you want to catch up, remember to go to our social media platforms and simply at Plos TV Africa on Facebook and Instagram. And same with our YouTube channel at Plos TV Africa and Plos TV Africa Lifestyle. I am Osauge Ogbanwan. And I am Annetta Felix. Bye bye.