 The next item of business is the debate on motion 4580 in the name of Tom Arthur on community wealth building, delivering transformation in Scotland's local and regional economies. I'd be grateful if members who wish to speak in the debate were to press their request to speak buttons now. I call on Tom Arthur to speak to and move the motion up to 13 minutes, minister. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I'm delighted to begin the first debate on community wealth building held in the Scottish Parliament. Last week I had the pleasure of meeting Ted Howard at an event hosted by the Economic Development Association Scotland in Edinburgh. Ted is the co-founder and president of the Democracy Collaborative, an economic think tank based in the United States. The Democracy Collaborative created the community wealth building approach with much of the model's early application and learning in the city of Cleveland, Ohio. That city's challenge with the impact of deindustrialisation, warrantied radical and creative thinking. In developing community wealth building, a way was devised to harness the power of public spend and assets to grow new co-operative businesses and create new jobs. In turn, that helped to empower and revitalise people and communities. Let me be clear that community wealth building is not just for cities. It is an integrated approach to local and regional economic development, suitable for implementation across Scotland. Scotland is at the forefront of advancing the model, with interests growing rapidly across the world. In fact, last week Ted Howard said, and I quote, Your country is fast becoming a global leader in the movement of community wealth building. I have noted its origins. I want to go on to set out how the model works and why the Scottish Government and a growing number of Scotland's local authorities and their partners have adopted it. Before I do that, it is worth reflecting that our new national strategy for economic transformation highlights Scotland's extraordinary economic potential. Crucially, NSET recognises the challenges that we face as a society by setting out a decade-long plan to develop a well-being economy where prosperity and equality share equal billing. I will be happy to. Willie Rennie. I have sat in the chamber for about 10 years now and I have heard speeches like this being repeatedly delivered. I love as a liberal discussing all that kind of stuff. At some point, we need to deliver. If you look back over the past 15 years, the record is pretty woeful. Surely we should be discussing actually making things work rather than those lofty kind of debates? Minister. I suggest that Willie Rennie buckles up and listens to the rest of his speech. We need to take a broader view of what a prosperous economy, society and country are. Moving beyond traditional measures of growth and avoiding the pitfalls associated with reliance on trickle-down economic benefits reaching communities. Collectively and as consensually as possible, we all need to ensure that our economy functions to help businesses thrive with the ultimate aim of enabling a society that puts people and the environment at the heart of its highest ambitions. A 2021 programme for government commits the Scottish Government to introduction of a community wealth building bill during this session of Parliament. I want to work with colleagues from across the chamber to ensure that legislative change can help to simplify the economic development landscape and enable community wealth building to advance. Daniel Johnson. I'm very grateful to the Minister for Giving Way. I'm grateful for his commitment to that, but he would have to acknowledge that, despite the seven references and insets to community wealth building, there's little there about what is meant or the resources that will be applied, will establishing meanings and identifying resources be a core part of the work that he's discussing here? Minister. I'm going to come on to some of that as my remarks progress. As the word spreads about community wealth building, some partners have expressed a view that Scotland is good at this sort of activity. Many successful programmes and initiatives in, for example, regeneration and procurement have enabled and continue to enable revitalisation of communities, creation of new jobs and land and property assets being placed in the hands of communities. Community wealth building is not intended as a replacement for current efforts to grow or regenerate our local and regional economies. What it is is a refinement of current practice that can help the public, private, third and community sectors to act in concert on the economy of a place by taking a full system approach. Combine the resources of all anchor partners. I'm sorry, I need to make some progress. What community wealth building can do is combine the resources of all anchor partners, be that project resources or mainstream budgets, and it can provide a joined up and streamlined prism for jointly co-ordinating economic planning and delivery. The model represents a practical focus on economic development in real communities with potential to deliver a progressive wellbeing economy for Scotland, more and better fair work opportunities, business growth and the emergence of new co-operative and employee-owned models, more community-owned assets, more stable local populations enabled by new economic opportunities and shorter supply chains supporting net zero ambitions. The Scottish Government wants to use community wealth building as a means of rewiring how we foster local and regional economies. The model is a relatively new one but it is not a rebranding of previous approaches or a high level mission statement. Community wealth building is a new organising principle that is also a hard headed, practical and operable economic development model. It relies on five pillars of activity. The first is spending. This is about how the public sector procures with the private and third sectors and uses its wider investment power. The workforce pillar is all about ensuring that conditions attached to current and future jobs adhere to what in Scotland is called fair work first principles. With the inclusive ownership pillar, the model seeks to grow employee-owned and co-operative businesses, offering employees a deep stake in the place that they work. With the land and property pillar, the objective here is to identify new opportunities for community ownership of assets, of at least a clear focus on providing local communities with a material economic benefit from the use of land. Finally, the model has a pillar focused on flows of finance or borrowing, with the emphasis on attracting more ethical lending to help local and regional businesses grow. I would like to turn now to some examples of progress made with the model. I will embark on a whistlestop tour from the north-east United States via the north-west of England before returning home to Scotland. In Cleveland, six anchor institutions, including Case Western University and the Cleveland Clinic, with the support of the city government, helped incubate a network of three employee-owned co-operatives employing residents from low-income communities. Those evergreen co-ops grow food, are engaged in community energy projects and provide laundry services to a range of anchor organisations. Employees benefit from a living wage and a profit share scheme. Inspired by what they have seen in the US, Preston in England took up the mantle, creating 1,600 additional jobs and additional £70 million of net investment to the city economy by anchor institutions and £200 million for the regional economy. These examples have inspired local authorities and their partners in Scotland over the past few years to advance community wealth building. We are supporting the work of five pilot areas in Cluckmanshire, south of Scotland, Western Isles, Tay City's Fife and Glasgow City region, all of which have developed and began implementing their community wealth building action plans. Our Covid recovery strategy commits the Scottish Government to working with all local authorities to develop action plans. Through the Ayrshire growth deal, we are investing £3 million in community wealth building to support businesses and communities across the region to enhance local supply chains, ensure fair work and maximise local assets. The region has benefited from North Ayrshire Council's trailblazing work as the first council in Scotland to adopt community wealth building. During a recent visit to the Western Isles, I spoke with people in the village of North Tolstah to explain how the revenue from a community-owned wind turbine was being used to support a number of local jobs and important community organisations within the village. I met with the Glasgow City region to hear about progress in vacant and derbyg land and procurement practices. I was heartened to hear that individual local authorities are driving community wealth building in their localities as well as through a collaborative regional approach. By establishing a pipeline of planned construction work, the Glasgow City region has been able to generate employment opportunities, including quality apprenticeships for local people. The South of Scotland Enterprise Agency recently updated me in their work with local registered social landlords to develop local supply chains for green retrofitting of housing stock. In meetings with Cluckmanusure Council and Fife Council, I have heard about rare respective work focusing on employability in developing supply chains, which will create more local employment opportunities. Finally, I recently attended a community land Scotland parliamentary reception, which has highlighted the fantastic work that is under way across Scotland to promote community ownership of land and the benefits that can be derived from local economies and communities. I thank the minister for giving way. He is quite right about some of the really good things that are happening across some of the areas that he has just mentioned. Does he accept, however, that Audit Scotland has made some very strong points recently about the importance of the transparency of where that money is being spent and the extent of the delivery of those projects that have to be very clearly measured so that the public can actually see what benefits have been accruing to it? I take the point that Liz Smith makes. I think that as well with community wealth building, our commitment to developing a well-being economy metric is going to be important because this community wealth building is a model that can deliver on the aspirations and ideals of a well-being economy. I just wanted to touch as I move towards closing my remarks on the work of the Scottish Land Commission, which has launched community wealth building guidance setting out practical actions that public bodies can take to use and manage land productively and in the public interest. Our local authorities are driving the agenda, but we are also seeing different sectors and anchor public bodies look to embed this approach into their practice and engagement with local partners, including NHS Scotland, police and fire service, as well as our further and higher education institutions. My proposition is that there is little to disagree with on this exciting new approach. It is basically about making our existing spend work harder to create fairer and more resilient local and regional economies. Community wealth building is about making all the money work for local communities. The principle is underpinning the model will increasingly influence the way in which the Scottish Government itself invests. Turning to the development of legislation, during my discussion with the pilot areas and other key stakeholders, a number of potential barriers and impediments to advancement of community wealth building have been discussed. I chaired the first meeting of a new community wealth building, Bill Steering Group, earlier this month. A broad cross-section of public, private and first sector partners have been invited to help develop and refine our legislative proposition. I also want to work with colleagues in the chamber and where relevant the UK Government in as consensual a way as possible to ensure the continued success of community wealth building. I am keen that the development of the legislation is influenced by those who have experienced on the ground building on that knowledge and enthusiasm. That extends to ensuring that we measure progress. The model's operation results in outputs such as business growth, new job creation and more land and community ownership. We also need to focus on gathering evidence about the beneficial long-term impacts of community wealth building. Community wealth building can help to transform local and regional economies across Scotland. It can protect and create good jobs. It can revive underutilised assets in our town centres and rural and island economies, unleasing the dynamism of community ownership and ensuring that local communities have a greater stake in their local economy. As Ted Howard says, Scotland is becoming a global leader in this field. We must be ambitious, bold and innovative in developing legislation to ensure that we realise the opportunity to unlock the potential of businesses and communities across Scotland, creating a stronger, fairer and greener economy. I was struck with a quote that was referenced by the originator, Albert Einstein. We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking that we used when we created them. Rethinking our economy over the next decade, I think that community wealth building can make a pivotal contribution. Perhaps not as erudite as an Einstein quote, but I was informed recently that an album released by the American band R.E.M. one year after I was born, there was a song called Coyahoga. The song's themes include repairing a damaged environment and the importance of community. The first line goes, let's put our heads together and start a new country up. I like the radical sentiment. The interesting connection is that the Coyahoga River runs right through the centre of Cleveland, Ohio, the home of community wealth building. Creating Scotland's future economy needs all of us to be radical and creative, and I think that community wealth building has a key role to play in creating that future. I move the motion in my name. I now call on Douglas Lumsden to speak to and move amendment 4580.3 up to nine minutes. I start by moving the amendment in my name. This is a hugely important debate for communities right across Scotland. Community wealth building provides opportunities for living in a prosperous society for all our citizens, and I'm pleased to be opening on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives today. Reaffirming our support as a party and the ambitions that community wealth building seeks to achieve. Whilst those ambitions are laudable, the Government must ensure that where public money is to be allocated, it represents value to the public purse and substantial outcomes for our people. The Scottish Conservative amendment before us today recognises the importance of community wealth building and seeks to ensure that constitutional differences are put aside and focus is given to work collaboratively with the UK Government. To ensure that our collective ambitions are realised for the whole of Scotland. I do find it strange, however, that this devolved Government has brought this debate forward at this time. Yes, it's important, but this is only one part of our growing economy. Without a proper, coherent strategy and economic growth, then this debate, I'm afraid, is not going to bring the changes required. When we look at the SNP's report card on the economy, it makes for some grim reading. We have Alex Salmond's green job promise of 28,000 jobs by 2020 failed miserably. Another broken promise by this SNP Government, with much public money pumped into BiFab, for example, with little or nothing to show for it when communities have been failed. We have the smelter at Lochaber. Millions of pounds of taxpayer's cash put at risk may be illegally. Thousands of jobs promised, but once again very little to show for it. Once again, communities have been failed. And then we have the ferry fiasco. Millions of pounds pumped into purchase to ferries, with no guarantee, no design, no windows, no end date, no LPG storage and no proper procurement trail. And years late, once again, communities have been failed. And now we have the SNP's latest pet project, ScotRail. So when we discuss transforming local and regional economies, let's think about the damage being caused by having no transport system at certain times of the day. The rail dispute has caused an habit right across Scotland and having a huge impact on the events and hospitality industry just at the time that they are trying to recover from over two years of disruption. This will cause businesses to fail and jobs to be lost. How will that help our local communities? The Scottish hospitality group has today called for an urgent review of the temporary timetable. I say temporary but nobody in the Government can seem to define what temporary actually means. The group says that there is a threat to public safety as customers and staff struggle to get home at night. Presiding Officer, there is little use in creating good, well-paid jobs if people can't get to those jobs because of poor or now dependent on the time of the day, nonexistent public transport to those jobs. We're now in a society that people are being forced to drive to work and if you can't drive or can't afford a car, then I'm not sure what people are meant to do. The rail dispute has caused jobs and the devolved Government needs to act. How ironic that we now have greens in government at a time when rail fares are increasing and services are being slashed? No wonder the green MSPs don't want to comment on the mess that they are complicit in. Of course, in my area we have oil and gas industry. We weren't seen as the cornerstone of the independence argument but now being thrown under the bus by the SNP Green Coalition. How will this attitude help those communities in the north-east of Scotland who are seeing their opportunities being swept away by the hostility demonstrated by this devolved Government? So maybe the minister will focus on this list of economic failures when he's summing up, because this list is damaging our communities but no doubt this will be glossed over as they try to congratulate themselves. They need to get their heads out of the sand and see the damage they are making to their economy as a whole. The principles of community wealth building have the potential to be transformational for many communities up and down the country. It's strange, however, that the Government motion has no mention of a huge elephant in the room and that is funding of local government. The briefing note from the improvement service states that local government has a huge role to play as an anchor institution, as a strategic partner of other anchor institutions who may already be a part of local community plan and structures, as a partner of Scottish Government developing policies and enabling measures. So as we can see local authorities have a huge role to play when it comes to economic growth and community wealth building, but they are the ones closest to our communities and they are the ones who understand the local needs best of all. This year's local government had a real-terms cut of £251 million to its core budget. Of course, economic development is not a statutory service for councils, so as the statutory services are protected, it is vital functions like economic development that have to shoulder the bulk of the cuts. However, that seems to be the way of this centralised and devolved Government, short-sightedness that will have a detrimental effect on all our communities and will have a negative impact on our long-term economic prosperity. The Scottish Government talked about partnership with local government, but it's not a partnership, it's a dictatorship. I welcome the member taking an intervention. In my area of Carrot Cymru in Dynvalu, you will recognise that Ayrshire was definitely not afforded a just transition over the years. Would the member welcome the fact that the Scottish Government has committed £3 million as part of the Ayrshire growth deal to community wealth building fund in that area that is going to build on the work that is being done? If you look at Ayrshire Council, over a decade they have put all of their money into making sure that local producers are supported in terms of the procurement for school meals. I absolutely agree. That's one of the reasons why local government needs to be funded correctly. Without that funding, it's harder for local government to play the vital role that they can play. The devolved government dictates to local authorities what they want and local government just to have to fall in line. That's why the Scottish Government is so against the levelling up funds. Those funds allow local government to bid in directly without the controlling centralising hand of the Scottish Government. Our citizens don't care where the money has come from to provide investment and jobs into our communities. They just want the investment to happen. As we've seen with truly ambitious plans and historic funding from the UK Government throughout the pandemic, but more importantly, as we move from our response into recovery, the importance of ensuring communities can rebuild following the economic and social devastation left behind by the pandemic is vital. That investment from the UK Government is levelling up communities right across the whole of the UK, a set-out in the £4.8 billion levelling up fund. While the focus on that additional investment has been strategically significant projects, the UK Government has rightly recognised that more targeted funding that empowers local communities is also required. The Community Ownership Fund, unveiled by the UK Government, provides an additional £150 million for communities across the UK, allowing them to own and manage community assets that face risk of closure. That investment will place significant decision making powers at the very heart of our communities. In summary, we are not miles apart on this vital issue today. Indeed, as I acknowledge in my opening remarks, we are agreed on the ambitions of securing long-term economic security and prosperity across our communities. We are agreed that we want to implement policies that improve outcomes for individuals and families, but where we seem to disagree with the Government is that we want the Scottish Government and the UK Government to work collaboratively and constructively in achieving those results. We all know that the SNP likes nothing better than spin and grievance, but they cannot cover up the economic incompetence and recklessness that they have demonstrated. All our indicators are shown that we are falling behind the rest of the UK, but this devolved Government tries to take no responsibility. We have seen them pass the buck so many times, often to local government. We have to recognise that local government has a huge role to play in this agenda, and to play a full role in this local government needs to be funded correctly. The way that this devolved Government treats our local government partners is a disgrace. Let's get behind our local government colleagues and give them the tools and the autonomy that they require to do their jobs. That will benefit our communities right across Scotland. Thank you. I now call on Daniel Johnson to speak to in movement 4580.1 up to seven minutes, please. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I think that if we are being frank and honest, if we went round the room and asked everyone to take what they meant by community wealth building, I think that we would probably find a lot of very different answers. I think that if we went outside this room to the street, I think that we might find that people didn't know what we were talking about at all. I think that perhaps the biggest challenge is to establish that consensus and that common understanding, because without that, we certainly can't make community wealth building successful. But let's be clear. In the coming years, we face huge economic challenges. We still don't understand the full costs of Covid, let alone have begun to address recovery. We are in the midst of a cost of living emergency, with many Scots facing spiralling costs for both their heating, travel and to feed themselves. Before those new unexpected challenges, we have the challenge of meeting our climate change targets, which create an imperative to overhaul our economy. That need is urgent. Frankly, I am not clear that either the investment nor the plans are in place to meet our 2030 targets. We need big ideas, and community wealth building could be one of those big ideas, because let's be clear. Beyond the challenges that I have set out, there are communities up and down Scotland that have never recovered from the loss of once-proud industries such as steel, shipbuilding, mining and manufacturing. We need answers that can address both the more recent issues but also those enduring ones that we know only too well in Scotland. We need big and bold ideas to rebuild and remake our economy. Community wealth building can and should be at the heart of that change, but that is also why we need greater clarity from the Scottish Government, both in terms of what its intentions are but also the resources that it will bring to bear. As I mentioned in my intervention, there are seven mentions in the national economic transformation plan, but very little clarity about what is meant. That is what we need if we are going to make progress. When I was listening carefully to the minister's speech, we didn't hear any detail about how community wealth building will proceed. What it means in a Scottish context as opposed to those broader examples, and indeed what the first steps will truly be beyond the discussion. I would be very grateful for more detail. I am very grateful to Mr Johnston for giving way. The key approach is to recognise that this is bottom-up. Local communities are the driver. Local authorities are clearly a key anchor institution that saw our health boards, FE and HE. We have the established five pillar model. We have the work that is going on in Ayrshire. Starting in North Ayrshire, we are now involving all the local authorities there plus the health board, the TSI and the college as well. We have the pilot areas. We have other local authorities pursuing their own areas. The action that we are taking in the short term is to support all local authorities to develop community wealth building action plans. They are understandably focusing on different pillars in different areas. From that learning and through consultation, the objective will be that the legislation that we introduce in Parliament later in this session will seek to remove barriers and impediments that those on the front line have themselves identified and to consolidate against. I hope that that helps to clarify some of the points, but the key aspect of the model is the five pillar model that has been in place in North Ayrshire and the wider Ayrshire region for some time now. I am grateful for that lengthy intervention. It does provide some clarity, but I think that we need to go further. If we look at both the examples here in Scotland and North Ayrshire and elsewhere, I think that a firm commitment that actually needs investment as well as intent, I think that it goes more beyond simply removing barriers, but it also looks at changing the institutional frameworks. Because community wealth building done properly does have the capacity change, but it has to have that focus. We have good examples even closer to them that perhaps we do not consider as community wealth building currently such as the Edinburgh Solar Cooperative, even Lothian Buses, a great example of municipal ownership. We must learn the lessons both recent and in the past. I would just take a small issue with saying that community wealth building is a brand new concept, because I firmly believe that the values at the heart of this are ensuring that assets and economic means serve and are accountable to those who depend upon them as absolutely vital. Those are enduring labour values, ensuring that the means of production are as widely held as possible for the benefit of the many, not the few. We will support the Government's motion tonight, but our amendment, and I will move the amendment in my name, seeks to ensure that it has meaning and purpose. We will not be supporting the Conservative amendment, however, because for two reasons. First of all, I think that its focus on local authority funding is somewhat dangerous. That cannot be viewed as a substitute for local authority funding. It must be additional to it. What is more, I do not think that the levelling up funding, which is a poor substitute for the funding that is a replacement, is really something worth supporting at all. Ultimately, it does ring somewhat hollow to hear arguments about local authority funding from a party who has cut funding to local authorities by half in England. We must go further. We have a cluttered landscape of agencies and disconnected initiatives when it comes to regional economic development. To be truly successful, it must be embedded at that scale. At the moment, city regional deals have little accountability and little joined up action with local authorities that are with them. If we are going to be successful, we must have that regional lens, because Scotland's regional economic inequalities are gross and unjust. To just a short distance of 30 miles between Dundee and Edinburgh, we see huge inequalities as much as 30 per cent in terms of the early output per worker. That may be a narrow, cold, economic measure, but it results in real differences in wages, life opportunities and the ability of people to feed themselves and their families. Going further, we must also look towards infrastructure and transport. It is not appointed in some ways that the Liberal Democrat amendment was not taken. Ultimately, we can do all of these things. We can create these jobs, but if people do not have the ability to travel to those jobs that have been created, they will serve little point at all. Infrastructure and transport are absolutely key. I believe that it is a point that my colleague Pauline McNeill will elaborate on further. The track record from the current Scottish Government is not a good one. We see the current public transport crisis and meltdown because of their failure to plan, their failure to invest. It is not just about the two ferries that they cannot build. Many other ferries should have been building over the last decade, which, quite frankly, failed to do so. In summary, we are cautiously welcoming of the Government's enthusiasm for community wealth building, but there has to be a huge amount more detail. There must be commitment to both resource but also long-term commitment, rather than just being just another fad and another tick box exercise. Ultimately, we must embed community wealth building at local, regional and national levels. Quite simply, community wealth building is not ambitious enough. We need to have ambition for national wealth building. Thank you. I am trying not to be grumpy. SNP ministers love those kind of debates. They craftily entice us to daydream about the future, to think big, out of the box, look at the stars, think about other things other than what is going on in our country right now, all in a desperate attempt to distract us. Today, we get the promise of pilots, of action plans and now all we need is a working group and another consultation, and we will have the full set. If you look at the reality, take loch abar, we were promised... Yes, I will take an intervention. Minister. Just in case Mr Rennie misheard me, it is not promises of pilots. These pilots are already in existence. This is happening. It has been happening for years. £3 million of investment into Ayrshire for the Ayrshire growth deal. I just want to reassure the member that there is abuse of any notion that this is simply a mission statement or rhetoric. It is happening on the ground and we are deepening and accelerating that work. Willie Rennie. That excites me greatly. I am ecstatic that he has got these pilots working. What about doing stuff up in loch abar? We were promised 2,000 jobs on the back of the £586 million financial guarantee provided to GFG Alliance for the aluminium spelter. What have we got? A handful of jobs. No where near the 2,000 that were promised. Also, the First Minister went to Fort William and she promised there would be a community land transaction exactly what the minister was talking about today. It is known as the Jamhama Highland estate. It was supposed to benefit the people who live on or near the estate. What we have got so far is the transfer of a quarter of an acre car park. A quarter of an acre car park. That is not community wealth building. Take offshore renewables. The Scottish Government has sold Scotland on the cheap. The value of the successful business in Scotland is far below what we are managing to get elsewhere in the United Kingdom. In this country, £100,000 per square kilometre. Around four in England and Wales achieved £879 million, which is £361,000 per square kilometre. Let me finish this point. That is almost four times as much as what we have got here. It is sold off on the cheap and will take an intervention. Daniel Johnson. I thank Willie Wehring for taking the intervention. My understanding is that the value, we sold off for just 5 per cent of the total revenues that we generated. Do you agree with me that we have had little more than platitudes in terms of securing supply chains? Is that not a failure of national wealth building right there? Absolutely. What is worse is that they have lumped all the contracts together on a massive big licence round. What does that do? It means that the work is going to go abroad, because we are not going to be able to ramp up the capacity or the workforce to be able to meet that demand. There is going to be a massive glut of work all at the same time. That is hardly community wealth building. We cannot even build the 54 jackets for the NNG wind farm of the fourth. We are not even managing to do that. We are getting eight jackets. You know what is even worse? Those jackets are getting shipped in from the other side of the planet. We are having to ship in workers from Portugal to build those eight jackets here in Fife. That is a disgrace, and it is not community wealth building. Workers in methyl and leaven are paying for those wind farms to be built through their electricity bills. The work is getting shipped in from abroad and so are the workers. That is not community wealth building. Look at what Reform Scotland said this week about the big grand promise for it felt like decades of the Scottish National Investment Bank. He says that Ross Brown from St Andrews University says that the Government is going to have to make up its mind whether it is a green infrastructure development bank or whether it is going to be investing in communities and small businesses in communities. The two are very different objectives and using the same instrument to achieve both is at best ill-advised and at worst full-hardy. That is not investing in our communities and it is certainly not community wealth building. I tell you also what is not community wealth building is depriving our island communities of the first chance of a decent summer tourism season because of the calamity of the ferry services. There will be bookings that are cancelled because people cannot be sure to get out to our islands. Just when they wanted some kind of opportunity to build some wealth in their community, it snatched away from them by this incompetent Government who cannot build two ferries. As a result, people are losing out in the islands. If you look at the rail services across Scotland, 700 rail services cancelled by this Government within weeks of taking control of the train service. Communities right across Scotland will have community wealth building opportunities snatched away from them because this Government cannot even run a train service. That all sounds negative but this is the reality for people in our communities. While we have lofty debates and look to the stars about community wealth building with a great grand plan and wonderful pilots, people are suffering and this Parliament needs to keep its feet on the ground and understand what is happening in our communities because if it does not, it will quickly get out of touch and I am afraid that this Government is already out of touch if it thinks that this debate is a substitute for the delivery of services in our communities. Let's have a proper debate about real things. We now move to the open debate. Fiona Hyslop is followed by Brian Whittle. I will speak to the Government's motion on community wealth building, which is very real for many people and is absolutely insulted by what we have just heard there from Mr Rennie. Community wealth building is an idea whose time has come as part of developing a new economic growth model of wellbeing where we take a more rounded approach to what success looks like. It embraces the strength, the ingenuity, the enterprise and creativity of local people to shape and develop locally sustainable economies and must be a way forward. SNP Government has been supporting the development of that wellbeing approach as founding members of the wellbeing economy governments and by piloting those six community wealth building projects. We must rethink our models of growth and delivery. The pandemic and the recognition of the role local people play in our communities, the importance of local secure supply chains, economic growth which she is raising and spending wealth locally all provides further impetus to the agenda. The Apsi report into new entrepreneurial municipalism is a real challenge and an opportunity for local councils and sits well with community wealth building. The pioneering, creative and community-led approach of SNP-run East Ayrshire Council is an example of that. The Government motion agrees with the shorter supply chain supporting net zero ambitions. The Scottish Government's place-based investment fund has supported whistled in college to develop a local skills supply chain for net zero with a passive house and a retrofit house to help in the expansion of locally sourced trained skilled workers in this field with almost half a million pounds to construct that training centre. The benefits of sustainability and resilience are critical to the agenda and if the minister has not done so, I suggest that he and other MSPs read the economy committee's report into sustainability and reliance with supply chains and our commitment on measuring carbon miles in public procurement. Anchor public institutions can support sustainable and resilient local sources of wealth from food to importantly energy and it is the asset ownership of community-focused buildings and energy sources which already are and can lend themselves to further community wealth building development. The minister has invited us to consider what elements we can consider in developing policy and law. My first advice is only legislate if you need to. Smart, nimble and enthusiastic policymaking by inspired local leadership can often produce quicker, faster results. On procurement, this is an area where legislation may be required to give confidence to local partners to procure locally where value for money has often led to now globally vulnerable supply chain choices not well suited to community wealth building. I am going to proceed. I want to address the motion unlike the main spokesperson for the Conservative. We need leadership with partnership. The community wealth building model involves local authorities and their community planning partners ensuring collective investment decisions focusing on how local economies can be helped to grow and flourish but that means genuine partnership and not a centralised council command and control model repackage or indeed from government. We have to share risk equitably and we need to think differently about risk. Martin Avila, the chief executive of community enterprise Scotland told the economy committee last week that some of the previous Scottish Government's rental guarantee schemes were there for developers to be able to take risks in order to develop new housing stock but they were not necessarily open to community owners. We were therefore telling the private sector that its risk could be underwritten by the state because the rental income guarantee scheme guaranteed that it would receive an income but that was not open to socially focused organisations. Often as a state he went on to state we say that we understand that private enterprise is risky so we will incentivise and de-risk it and they will get to privatise the value that is captured. However, when it comes to community organisations that want to socialise the economic value that they create we say that we are not really sure that they can carry their plan out without failing so we have to end that false equivalence. On funding we warned of place funding spread thinly across individual projects councils already wanted to support rather than generate growth and leverage partners and private funding and build a local customer base. Challenges anchor projects in district heating and energy and solar generation and electric vehicle charging are being developed and local energy companies are an example of asset building as a way forward but that comes back to what is statutory and what is not and what the capacity and capability of local councils are to resource them with people and expertise. Town centres matter but each and every one is different and the leadership and skills may be found in different places. If the Government has explicitly said business improvement districts need to be consulted on place-based funding and the evidence that they haven't been then he should be concerned. I have said in this chamber when we discussed our immediate recovery from the early part of the pandemic in the summer of 2020 that we needed a revolution in our economic thinking not just evolution and I think community wealth building as part of the wellbeing economy drive is a revolution which is happening in plain sight but not often held as such so I hope this debate can act as a clarion call to herald in this new era for Scotland. The difference is this Government and this party trust the people of Scotland we trust our communities we put faith in them and we respect them by driving forward this agenda which respects Mr Rennie the communities of our country. Thank you I call Brian Whittle to be followed by Collette Stevenson Thank you, Presiding Officer I'm delighted to get the opportunity to speak in today's debate and as the chamber is aware it's my belief and the belief in my party that the development of community is essential for the prosperity of Scotland and we can call it community wealth building but I think it's important to define what we mean by that. To me it's creating an environment of wealth, work and play where the essence of community and community interaction that intangible feeling of belonging can grow and in doing so a community wellbeing and therefore wealth is developed. In recent decades, as I've said many times it's my belief that the heart of so many communities has been ripped out as a policy of centralisation from the Scottish Government has been pursued to the detriment of said communities. What we're talking about here is communities to come together in a shared interest and I've said before this can be sport, art, music, drama I've mentioned it so many times and I think it's been paid lip service. It's the ability for communities to all turn up to watch their children participator Saturday morning for parents and friends to be part of that be that in an official capacity otherwise. However, Presiding Officer community assets have been systematically ripped out and allowed to fall into disrepair The ability of communities to engage has been eroded Too often these days for people to participate in any kind of activity they must come home from work or school and then go somewhere else This of course impacts the less well off to a much greater degree Presiding Officer we must look to schools and their facilities much more these days to become the community hub. Open up the school estate and use it for community activity That surely is more important now than ever Open spaces to play and learn should all be in our communities and that is something that my colleague Liz Smith has long championed These opportunities are becoming rarer and rarer Connecting communities is another issue that has been allowed to drift which has such an impact on a community's ability to grow and prosper Ever since I've entered this place we in these benches have been crying out for an investment in transport infrastructure First on the south west in my case speak to the communities along the A77 and the A75, not to mention the 76 the 72, the 71, the 70 and ask how easy it is to get to work and to access basic service amenities How on earth do the Scottish Government expect to be taking seriously the discussion community wealth building when huge swathes of the country remain ignored with infrastructure that hasn't been invested in for decades We have a Scottish Government that will ensure that they will not engage with the UK Government on their desire for extra investment into our community infrastructure a point that was made by my colleague Douglas Lumsden Then there is the train link in the south west which I was going to suggest needs significant investment to bring it up to the standard required along with investment in train services generally opening up stations and rail links encouraging public transport usage at the moment getting there so few trains now running There's two trains a day from Stranraer to Glasgow and in some places the last trains to busy Ayrshire stations will be cut by hours with some final journeys leaving Glasgow as early as 20 past 6 Instead of community wealth building communities are being cut off So when the Scottish Government has the audacity to mention net zero in its motion we are left with wondering how far out of touch from communities they really are The only way for communities to reach out now is by car and it won't be electric cars as rural communities are the very last places to get electric charging points I also want to mention public procurement I recognise that was an element in Daniel Johnson's motion and I agree with him completely invest monies in local economy wherever possible Surely that goes without saying but again presenting officer not for this government for as long as I've been in this Parliament encouraging, cajoling and the Scottish Government to revise public procurement policy but to no avail Specifically in public procurement surely must be an easy win support our local food producers, our rural economy and the health of our children in schools, patients in hospitals and all of public office staff I listened to Fiona Hyslop mention East Ayrshire and that to me is the frustration because East Ayrshire council have shown us for years that this can be done and the way to do it and yet this country is not following suit what a frustration but no, here we are still importing the majority of our food often at the standards far lower than that of local produce I will take an invention Thank you very much for taking the intervention does the member not recognise that that's exactly what the good food nation bill is all about and that already we have 90% of the beef or the red meat that's going into schools is already from Scottish suppliers thank you for the intervention that's what the good food nation should be about it's an absolute shell and the fact of the matter if you look at the excel public procurement policy it's something like 16% of the food that we use in schools comes from Scotland I think that's an absolute shame on the Scottish Government community wealth building is about so much more than pounds and pens it's about engendering a sense of community pride building that environment where people want to live work and play of allowing communities the opportunity to come together as a community and connecting them to other like-minded communities do that and the financial wealth will follow sadly the Scottish Government has shown that it is unable to grasp the meaning of community wealth building I call Collette Stevenson to be followed by Richard Leonard thank you community wealth building will help build resilience in local economies to create a fairer and more secure economic future it will also support the development of land for community benefit and as has been said it relies on five pillars progressive procurement and I'll speak a bit about that later shared ownership of the local economy socially just use of land and property making financial power work financial places and fair employment and just labour markets in terms of the last point the Scottish Government's fair work first approach is very welcome and there's many real living wage accredited employers across the country Scotland has been described as a global leader in the community wealth building movement I'm biased but I believe East Kilbride is doing well too we have good foundations in place to push forward and make the most of new opportunities including the many enterprises that follow the community wealth building pillars for example East Kilbride credit union offers a very ethical and safe way to save and they exist to serve the local community we have fantastic social enterprises as well such as the furnishing service led by Randall Wilson they have won many awards from Scotland Excel over the years they have created many employment opportunities for young and disabled people and have diverted more than 1,000 tonnes of product from landfill there are many other companies in the town who are committed to employee wellbeing and fair employment practices and there are also several employee owned businesses including NovoGraph Grosart Associates and Klansman Dynamics we are also lucky to have some excellent public spaces such as Langlands Moss Calder Glen Country Park and the James Hamilton Heritage Lock in East Kilbride as well as the Glen Esk Pocket Park in St Leonard's and the newly designated local nature reserve in Mossnuke between them these areas offer amazing benefits to locals including great walking routes bike trails, water sports outdoor classrooms, sports facilities and cafes we understand that a variety of flora and fauna enjoys those areas too there are many community groups helping to protect enhance these spaces including the Friends of Langlands Moss and the East Kilbride Development Trust as well as community minded organisations like them the role of the public sector will be crucial going forward from local authorities to the NHS the large budgets available to the public sector can be used to unlock wider benefits this includes pension funds when I sat on the pension board for the Strathclyde pension fund we were very keen working alongside trade unions to make sure that the direct investment portfolio was used at a local level to boost local economies and support ethical businesses so we followed many of the principles of community wealth building another way these public sector organisations can affect change is through procurement I believe there is a big opportunity by applying progressive procurement practices to create local well paid jobs and maximise community benefit supply chain visibility is an important part of this when large companies win contracts we should be able to see where their subcontract goes these processes should be open and transparent so that we can easily identify the community benefit of big contracts I've spoken before about the supplier development programme they do great work with small businesses to help them understand procurement processes and highlight the opportunities available in subcontracting this shortening of the supply chain by using local enterprises delivers a clear benefit in local communities through employment opportunities and business growth but it also supports us in reaching our climate targets by reducing the carbon footprint of our products the proposed community wealth build and bill could help here by developing procurement practices to support local economies including small businesses and encouraging school can teams no I'd like to make progress thanks and encouraging school can teams in hospitals to use more locally produced food in conclusion community wealth building offers us great opportunities to improve our local communities support fair employment take a place based approach to the economy and to deliver on our climate targets one of the big things for me is the use of progressive procurement in the public sector so that big contracts support local and ethical businesses and create a protect good quality jobs if we take anything from the experience of the pandemic it should be the belief that we can effect real change that we should protect and enhance our local spaces and that we must build a fairer and more secure economic future by putting the emphasis on local community wealth building to that there is a climate emergency people are working for the economy but the economy is not working for the people we've got massive inequalities of income of wealth of power that are growing ever wider in one of the wealthiest nations in the history of the world life expectancy is not going up it's going down one in four of all children in Scotland are living in griding poverty and yet two out of three of those children are being brought up in households where at least one adult is in work what a shocking indictment of our low pay economy what a shocking indictment of capitalism what an indictment of the SNP Green Government Minister for Just Transition Employment and Fair Work who on £98,000 a year takes to the BBC at the weekend to let your working people of Scotland to be sensible and to exercise pay restraint shame on you I've long argued that building an economic strategy around foreign direct investment is a catastrophic error according to the Scottish Government's own latest annual business statistics 82% of all large businesses in Scotland accounting for 65% of employment and three quarters of all turnover now have their ultimate base their headquarters, their ownership outside Scotland this is not a mark of economic strength but a sign of a careless economic weakness we have a branch plant economy with far too much of the wealth that is generated, extracted and then exported and this is precisely why a community wealth building approach to economic development is now more critical than ever it's why it needs to move from the fringe to the mainstream it is not a refinement as the minister said it is a revolution and why simply trying to create a pro-growth pro-business post-Brexit environment is to fundamentally misunderstand the both the scale of the challenge we face and the direction the economy now needs to go in let me be as plain to Government ministers as I can be yes I'll take an intervention I'm so confused by what you just said are you actually against business bettered? No, I'm in favour of business building from the bottom up the problem with your party's Government policy is that for too long it's been reliant on foreign direct investment as the only engine of growth we should be looking to the people we should be looking to local businesses and we should be looking to the wealth that's in our communities as the basis for economic development because traditional solutions will not work we need an economic plan as investment led people centred net zero and manufacturing driven and we need a new economic strategy of state intervention to secure popular control rather than simply popular intervention to secure state control let me give a practical example of community wealth building for nearly two decades we've had a land reform act giving communities a statutory right to buy the land they live on so the time is long overdue for an industrial reform act giving working people a statutory right to buy the business the enterprise that they work in because why shouldn't the people who create the wealth own the wealth that they create and it's my intention to bring a bill to parliament which will seek to deliver this in due course because I firmly believe that the time has come where we need to be radical in our thinking transformative in our vision and resolute in our action and that means using the financial fire power that we've already got like our pension fund the Strathclyde local government pension fund is the second biggest local government fund in the UK with assets worth £26 billion and yet it could undertake so much more primary investment activity locally instead of relying so much on public procurement activity the buying and selling of stocks and shares which benefit economies on the other side of the world and we should use the financial fire power of public procurement where we spend £13 billion a year in Scotland but we know again that far too much of it ends up in the hands of large global corporations too many of them registered in tax havens so we need a new path based on the principles of economic social and environmental justice because we know and the people we represent know that the rigged way our economy is run and the unequal share out of the fruits of their labour is not the natural order we know and they know that there is an alternative way of organising the economic system and we have caught a glimpse of the possibilities of community wealth building in North Asia we know what has worked in Preston we have seen the benefits internationally in Cleveland, Ohio so let's make community and worker ownership climate and social justice equality and democracy decentralisation and diversity central to the kind of economy that we want to build after the pandemic so that every job is a green job the whole economy is a social economy so let's not just merely debate it let's go out there and do it thank you I call Alasdair Allan to be followed by Maggie Chapman thank you, Presiding Officer this afternoon's debate is a very timely one for many decades wage stagnation, low productivity sometimes and huge wealth inequalities have often seemed like entrenched features of the Scottish economy and as we emerge from the Covid-19 pandemic there has never been a more important time approach to local economic development but contrary to some of what we've heard this afternoon what's been outlined by the minister around community wealth building is a people-centred approach to local economic development which redirects wealth back into the local economy and places control and benefits into the hands of local people the Scottish Government is working with five areas including my constituency of Nihilan and the Nair to produce the spoke community wealth building action plans community wealth building is underpinned by five central principles progressive procurement, fair employment and just labour markets shared ownership with the local economy socially just use of land and property and making financial power work for local places in many ways it's difficult to think of a part of the country more suited to the ideas behind community wealth building than my own part of the world the western Isles has the highest rate of living wage employers anywhere in Scotland its strong tradition of crofting encourages durable links between communities and the land and it is a place which has been a trailblazer for community land ownership with a significant 70% of people now living on community owned states and community land ownership has to be an essential aspect of any community wealth building strategy that we want to talk about there are people perhaps even some members in this place who would argue that the way in which land is used is far more important than how it is owned however community wealth building recognises the intertwined nature of land ownership and land use different forms of ownership come with different forms of management which in turn determine how land is used and I can think of countless examples to illustrate that if we look at West Harass the West Harass Trust has done some fantastic work since the community bought the land from the Scottish Government in 2010 at this time the population of the area was unsustainable with a very low proportion of residents of working age and 35% of the housing stock was self catering cottages or holiday homes the trust wanted to attract young families into the area and focused on creating employment and housing prospects for them now while those problems of fragility have certainly not gone away since 2010 the trust has created opportunities for small local businesses to flourish sold housing plots, enabled the construction of new housing units for rented social housing and this partnership equity scheme created jobs within the trust itself and the further 20 jobs at the trust's purpose built arts food and entertainment centre now these numbers may sound small but in a community the size of West Harass they do have a disproportionate impact and of course as a major employer it provides a range of opportunities for local suppliers and ensures all income derived from their facilities crucially and this is where the relevance is is reinvested back into the community for local projects this has had a real impact with a 20% increase in populations since the trust was established in contrast with this comes back to my point about the relevance to this debate of community ownership of estates in contrast to West Harass another community in my constituency Great Burner faces similar demographic challenges to Harass and its people have no less of a sense of community and no less a wealth of talent to draw upon however unlike West Harass the island remains in absentee private ownership despite the best efforts of the Great Burner community development trust while the community of landlord in West Harass is a driver of development in Burner I have heard complaints from constituents there of demands for large sums of money before the landlord will allow legitimate transactions around tenancies to proceed raising objections as he does to planning permission for new housing and refusing to engage with crofter seeking to exercise their legal right to buy their crofts I do not say that these actions are prohibiting the island's development and hastening its depopulation The island has already lost its local shop and school in recent years while the community has been unsuccessfully trying to persuade the absentee landlord to cooperate with their buy-out efforts so that is why land ownership matters in the context of the debate that we are having today about investing in communities the best people to decide the future of our communities across Scotland are the people who live in those communities I thank the member for taking an intervention what do you say to those communities who have strongly opposed planning applications which have subsequently been overturned by the SNP Scottish Government and we are talking about 400 in the last few years and that number has increased year on year what do you say to those communities which their voices have not heard I would have thought that the voices within communities are heard through the planning application process and the planning application process has always given a role to ministers but the point that I want to end on is that as an MSP representing part of the Highlands and Islands I am heartily sick I must say of one or two people with little or no connection with the region who try to impose their notions on communities about what land should be used for with the expected growth of natural capital markets and the increasing number of businesses and organisations perhaps seeking to become green layers it will be more important than ever for us to do as the minister is setting out today to guard against models of ownership that do not have local communities at their heart thank you I call Maggie Chapman to be called by Emma Harper thank you the UK is one of the most unequal countries in the world according to the OECD vast amounts of wealth and assets are held by a small number of people indeed the Sunday Times rich list shows that the number of billionaires in the UK is at an all time high 177 billionaires people who saw their wealth rise by 9.4% over the last year Scotland's top 10 billionaires had a combined wealth of over 23 billion pounds at a time when so many people are way beyond facing the choice between heating their homes and eating they can afford neither it is clear that our economic system is broken current models of economic development have failed to redistribute wealth to provide adequately for all people in all of our communities our economy is far from well so today's debate is welcome and it is important community wealth building won't fix all of our economy's ills but it is an attempt to roll back one of the most damaging thatch right initiatives of the 1980s that of moving public spending from something that should benefit the public to something that benefited the big corporations invited in to tender for public services compulsory competitive tendering has resulted in the funneling of money out of our communities for too long we've heard that bundling contracts create sufficiency that the cheapest bid is the best and that the public pound should be used to increase private profits not public good enough we know that we need to be more resilient that strong resourceful and innovative communities are better able to organise and work together to look out for each other and improve the lives of all their members community wealth building offers a way to support this work in a meaningful way and we are not starting from scratch we can build on the social solidarity that developed in many places during the pandemic and put community organising and wealth building at the heart of our plans for a green recovery we must do this as we continue to deal with the pandemic and of course tackle climate breakdown we must do it in a way that builds the foundations of a new economy one focused on community wealth in other words we want to re-establish a community-based way of life one that sees value in and of society one that increases economic self-reliance and local control over people's environments and their decision making structures one that sees the connections and interdependencies between the economy our environment and our society this approach means that people and their labour must matter more than capital our local and regional economies must recognise that people matter more than corporate bottom lines we cannot let the market and capital call if we want to build community wealth thriving local and regional economies require local ownership whether control and economic advantages of that ownership are spread more broadly such as through cooperative community or employee ownership models this guards against the extraction of wealth on behalf of those at the top the minister earlier highlighted the importance of grassroots engagement and participation to community wealth building we need active participation in strong and robust democratic structures because despite what neoliberalism tells us communities are not isolated individuals engaged in civic life only as passive consumers and localising investment and capital circulation matters too when goods and services are produced and purchased locally that money stays in the community longer because local businesses are more likely this translates into greater local prosperity greater community stability a tighter network of local people and businesses all key to building community wealth imagine if we used our collective community wealth for good rather than fueling the casino economy that does little to provide for all but building community is much more is about much more than just having money circulating locally it's about the power that comes from building lasting relationships of mutual support fostering effective collaboration between anchor organisations, local government and neighbourhood residents isn't just a matter of convenience or capacity it is utterly intrinsic to the project of community wealth building and place really matters but place making does not happen by accident places need coherent strategies to ensure local assets work and as others have mentioned they need to be coherent connections to transport and other infrastructure that are vital to community survival in closing I'd like to record my thanks to organisations including Community Land Scotland the Development Trust Association Scotland and Community Enterprise in Scotland for highlighting the vital work of anchor organisations and I'd like to thank them too for highlighting what we can learn from other community focus legislation this Parliament has enacted and for pointing out the need to now make things happen at a timescale that does not lead to drift and disinterest as Pauline Smith from Development Trust Association Scotland told the Economy and Fair Work Committee just last week we are not reinventing the wheel here different terminology is used Development Trusts, Community Enterprise in Scotland and other agencies have supported these organisations to build community wealth and make things happen in their communities to be honest I think we just need to work together and we all have a part to play let's just get on with it thank you I now call on Emma Harper to be followed by Finlay Carson for around six minutes I welcome the opportunity to speak this afternoon when I looked into the work of the democracy collaborative I realised the huge potential of community wealth building there is no one-size-fits-all approach but the bottom-up approach centres around democratic ownership of the economy and community self-determination and I'm saying it isn't just a one-size-fits-all approach as what happens in the central belt and in Glasgow will be different to what happens in rural areas like the south-west of Scotland having lived in California for many years I've witnessed wealth inequalities and the consequences of that what is outlined by the democracy collaborative is what I want to see in Scotland it's about wealth redistribution and benefiting our communities it's also in sharp contrast to what the UK Government are doing with their hard-right individualist policies by its fundamental design today's corporate capitalist system takes wealth that would otherwise reside in local communities and concentrates it at the hands of a small elite the ONS reported that there are an estimated 27.8 million households in the UK and 263,000 control 45% of our country's wealth and in Ted Howard's model community wealth building proposes an economic model with more local good quality jobs improved access to public contracts for local businesses particularly important for our agricultural community more land should be placed in community ownership and support being offered to new businesses exploring employee ownership CWB supports renewable energy development with the wealth generated being distributed back to the community for me this means the potential for the development of renewable offshore energy in the south-west potentially in the sawy Firth I'd be interested in exploring this potential in the next round of Scotland licences when I visited iMouth harbour last year it was evident that millions of pounds in high value jobs had and will be brought to the community through renewable energy investment when it comes to how money is spent and services commissioned by our institutions cost us off in dominant it's the dominant determining factor in who gets the contract environmental credentials social value decent employment conditions tend to be weaker considerations to see this change with community wealth building we can create legal change in our procurement processes and others have talked about this already this can ensure that small local and medium sized enterprises and employee owned businesses support local jobs and have a greater tendency to recirculate wealth directly to our communities for example it can allow our agricultural community to provide local projects to our schools, hospitals social care settings, prisons institutions, something I have been pursuing locally but have faced local bureaucratic barriers and I therefore welcome the Government's commitment to reform procurement processes and ask for a commitment that this will be taken forward at pace Presiding Officer ahead of this debate I spoke with Rob Davidson community wealth building manager with the South Scotland Enterprise Agency and the minister has described some of the saucy work that's already taken place with registered social landlords saucy hit the ground running at the beginning of the pandemic supporting businesses practically and financially to promote community wealth principles saucy yes I will thank you for taking the intervention we remember welcome the UK Government's community ownership fund which has seen £175,000 being spent in Yw Galloway town hall and £300,000 towards Wigtown rebuild Emma Harper I do welcome some of the funding but what I don't like is the fact that the money is coming to places in areas which are devolved to the Scottish Government what I would respond to the member is are you happy that this place is being trumped upon in devolved areas by the UK Government that's what I would respond by saying that saucy are working with Stranraer project as part of the community reuse shop led by project manager Paul Smith to support this social enterprise to grow and expand and they're also incorporating fair work practices and from a phone call this morning the Stranraer furniture project now has 22 employees and it's working to the wider benefit of the community and I would encourage members to look at the wide range of activities Paul and his team are undertaking and in Castle Douglas Stuart Recare providers of home care with almost 100 employees are beginning a democracy collaborative model of employee ownership so it's already happening out there members are saying this is looking at the stars pying the sky it's not it's happening on the ground right now with saucy supports Stuart Recare are encouraging employees to take leadership and ownership roles in the company one final example of a D&G CWB trailblazer is Jaspy Wilson they're a forestry equipment manufacturer and distributor in Dolbyty and Jaspy Wilson have donated a car to the local first responders so that they don't have to use their own car if necessary and they've financed premises for a local play group they've supported the local Birchvale players theatre in their move to new premises and all of these companies demonstrate how community wealth building is already working across Dumfries and Galloway for example across the south of Scotland and I would invite the minister to come and visit any of these diary allows presiding officer in closing community wealth building is a practical place-based focus model that can play a central role in growing Scotland's wellbeing economy a community wealth building approach puts an emphasis on local people and on ownership with a view to growing the number of people that have a genuine ownership stake in the economy I want more people and local communities to have a bigger stake in our economy share the ownership and build resilience to create a fairer and more secure economic future Thank you presiding officer Thank you very much Miss Harper before calling the next speaker just a gentle reminder to all members that you should remain in the chamber for at least two speeches after your own I'm not going to name and shame but just these reminders I think periodically are useful to be followed by Pauline McNeill for around six minutes Mr Carson He goes without saying that anything that helps Scotland's economy has to be warmly welcomed particularly if support is being provided at a local level community wealth building is a step towards achieving this goal the principles of community wealth building include procurement whereby people are encouraged to buy and spend locally in order to support businesses in their area where possible create new employment opportunities community wealth building can bring positive moves towards improved use of land and assets to ensure our communities and businesses make better use of land and properties to support regeneration opportunities then there is plural ownership where wealth generating in a specific area will remain there to support new and existing businesses including social and community enterprises cooperatives and employee ownership this is particularly important in rural areas far too often projects may be create short term employment and benefit but the wealth generated for example with wind farms and forestry soon leaves the region on this side of the chamber we welcome schemes supporting community wealth building many of which are supported through the UK Government's local support schemes such as the shared prosperity fund and levelling up funds and these schemes provide local communities with a greater say in where funds should be spent and projects that need to be supported and this is of great importance on local funding compared to the SNP cuts to local budgets and centralising decisions because it effectively gives local communities their voice back and rightly so and the local community needs their voices listen to because the SNP Government is ignoring them by overturning nearly 400 local planning decisions since 2017 certainly well Minister on an intervention around the planning appeals process I have to ask my own sincerity and this is not a loaded question I genuinely want to know does he think there should be an appeals process within the planning system Billy Carson absolutely do but the problem is there is a disproportionate number of local made decisions have then been subsequently been overturned by the Scottish Government 400 since 2017 and more last year than ever before so increasingly we are witnessing the SNP Government ring ffencing more Scottish council budgets more than half a billion pounds now that's hardly local democracy local council budgets are being continually squeezed in the case of Dumfries and Galloway it faces an estimated £12.8 million funding gap for the coming year so it's little wonder that councils of all political persuasion have welcomed a variety of schemes being introduced by the UK Government such as the levelling up scheme a £1.5 billion of support to city and growth deals in every part of this country including the borderlands inclusive growth deal a unique cross-border collaboration which will deliver a multi million pound investment into Dumfries and Galloway over the next 10 years and this aims to provide a long term proportionate that certainly will Emma Harper does the member not think it's a bit disproportionate when the Scottish Government has invested in the UK Government do you think that's levelling up or is that just losing out Finlay Carson I can give you the time back I think the member must be confused because the Scottish Government spend on devolved issues and the UK Government spend on reserved issues so that's why there's a difference in the funding gap I thought you would maybe have known that Ms Harper however it provides £1.5 billion across the country and it aims to improve the long term prosperity of our communities while enhancing the environment aspects of the deal worth £425 million sorry I've taken enough interventions I'm sorry the £425 million projects are still being developed but amongst them and I'm sure Emma Harper will welcome them is the Strunrar marina redevelopment the redevelopment of the former nuclear power station at Chapelcross the creation of the dairy nexus by the Scottish Rural University College and the Barney College to develop long term innovative solutions for forage based dairy farming and money will also be spent on the seven stains network of mountain bike trails in addition the Borderlands will improve connectivity deliver skills and innovation it will ultimately support the longer term resilience of towns and communities in my region as you can appreciate there is great excitement surrounding the potential of this growth deal and rightly so in an area repeatedly starved of any proper investment the borderlands will deliver an additional 5500 jobs and attracting more than 4 million extra tourists unlocking investment and boosting the region's economy by £1.1 billion both the UK community renewal fund and the UK community ownership fund are other prime examples that have worked in Dumfries and Galloway plans to create a 21st century village a development that promises to become a world class visitor attraction in Dumfries moved to a closer with securing £1.4 million funding the project will result in nearly 500 new carbon neutral and age friendly homes being built in the Crichton site projects in New Galloway Wittorn have been successful in bidding in the first round of the community ownership fund and I've already said 175 for New Galloway town hall and 300,000 towards Wittorn rebuild both projects supported by the social wellbeing of a community which are vital to the fabric of my constituency through protecting facilities that would otherwise have been at risk furthermore it's estimated Dumfries and Galloway will receive more than 6.7 million to support a range of projects from supporting adults who lack basic numeracy skills helping young people into jobs and allowing residents to fulfil their potential the UK and the Scottish Government are working together on these projects and the Ayrshire gross deal that the UK Government contributed equally in 103 million with, we've heard already £3 million going to implement community wealth building but sadly that co-operation isn't universal and it's very disappointing that despite a funding commitment from the UK Government as a result of the union connectivity review that the Scottish Government still has failed to meet the UK Government to bring much needed funding to improve the A75 which is absolutely critical in connecting communities and businesses so Deputy Presiding Officer in conclusion positive steps are being taken to drive local and regional economies forward directly delivering to local communities by the UK Government and this S&P Government should follow their example Thank you Mr Carson and I call Pauline McNeill who will be followed by the last speaker in the open debate Audrey Nicholl for around 6 minutes Thank you Presiding Officer community wealth building risks being a meaningless phrase linked to it do nothing to alleviate the suffering caused by the cost of living crisis Currently the economy isn't working for a significant number of people other members have said this in this debate that it has to change I wonder what happened to the rhetoric at the beginning of the pandemic about building back better we don't hear that much about that now and I don't believe that we've even started down the path of changing the things that do need to change First I see the potential of Howard's Cleveland model I fail in all honesty to see how Scotland is leading this I just make that point I genuinely do not see it because one of the sharp reminders that we need to radically alter the way the economy is structured is that of course it's a UK issue that we're 9 per cent of inflation with soaring energy bills and there doesn't seem to be disproportionately impacting lower income people as Maggie Chapman and Richard Leonard have talked about the UK with the highest levels of inflation the highest energy prices in Europe and other countries in the G7 doing a lot more to protect people from these price increases so there is a context there must be a context of this debate and it's right to say so any Government with this local or national to me I do acknowledge that there's pockets of success around the country and I want to acknowledge that but generally I just see a lot of failures the fact that the Scottish Government so easily abandoned their plans for public own energy tells me that a community well built building strategy as this completely lacks ambition we really haven't heard a good enough rationale for why the alternative plans haven't really been discussed or well developed so I think the Scottish Government I've got to step up to the plate then if they want to match a well building strategy with the actual problems on the ground that people face today because we're heading for another staggering so-called energy price cap this October of 2800 I know people be familiar with these figures with 12 million households in fuel poverty across the UK and the big energy companies that made profits of £1 billion in 2020 are all in denial about these profits being available even in short term to help people who need it I believe the regulator needs to toughen up and force energy companies to spend some of their profits and directly cutting bills but I also believe in Scotland we could do a lot more in the context of this debate not enough time to talk about it today but a bigger role for energy action Scotland seems to me that there are some devolved aspects that we could bring into play here but the government must urgently give support I believe for community-owned renewable co-operatives theoretically there is support so I don't think there's an ideological divide on this point but it must have this at its very heart co-operative models I believe are vital I declare my interest in this as a member of the co-operative party so that communities which host renewable energy projects must really benefit from those schemes and this is what the Scottish co-operative party are calling for which I support to give preferential treatment to genuine community-owned renewables for example by giving planning exemptions or tax-based seems to me to fit with e-wealth at building community-wealth building strategy you've heard from other members that press and adopt to the community-wealth building approaching 2011 and it appears to have been highly successful between 2012 13 and 2016-17 the amount specifically spent and pressed and locally tripled from there to 8 million to 112 million so you do see that these policies can have success and that city also managed to have its unemployment rate and that's of interest to me and I know it's of interest to the minister too and I'm going to talk about Glasgow and I thank him in advance for a meeting we're going to have on this and I wanted to use this opportunity to say something about that this is the kind of renewal that Glasgow needs because Glasgow and the motion does say this city regions are critical for economic development and for building back if we believe that's what we're doing so that's why I've been calling for an economic development agency for Glasgow for some time because I think for Scotland's biggest city I do not think it will recover out of the many problems it's had without something overarching I'm sure I do not need to spell out some of Glasgow's problems but the answers are simply not there at the moment the announcement on the Clyde metro is a non-existent transport project that we're not likely to see for 25 years there's been huge damage done to the taxi trade which I believe is an integral part of public transport and no one is listening to taxi drivers we've lost huge numbers of jobs in hospitality and government ministers in other departments don't even seem to be interested in the Glasgow airport and of course without an airport that has connectivity a city region cannot be economically viable so I don't really understand why the Scottish Government are not joining the dots on this I wanted to conclude going back to the question of young people who've been at the sharp end of this pandemic in Glasgow and across the country it's young adults probably from the ages of probably 19 that research shows that they had lasting consequences for this group and I would ask the minister to consider carefully if this is a strategy which is central to the Scottish Government's overarching view of what we do in this Parliament you really must link this very closely to what needs to be done to have young people to get back on track with careers that actually have quality jobs that are protected for the work that they do thank you thank you very much, Ms McNeill we now move to the final speaker and open debate, Audrey Neill after which we'll move to closing speeches Audrey Neill for around six minutes please thank you very much I welcome the opportunity to speak in support of the Government motion in today's debate and for anyone here today are watching this debate used familiar with the north-east of Scotland between south and north concordinas located you're very likely to have friends or family members who have a relationship with the oil and gas sector that has been the mainstay of the north-east economy for many decades now and you may also know that well in excess of £300 billion in tax revenue has flowed from the North Sea oil and gas sector to the UK treasury over its lifetime and counting the sector has and continues to be a lifeline for the north-east and beyond and while there were unintended consequences of the energy sector such as high house prices and of course recruitment challenges for the likes of nurses teachers and police officers the economic benefit has been vast today the sector retains a modified footprint and we await with anticipation the north-east playing its part in our just transition that will harness the skills talent and experience of the oil and gas workforce underpinning our national journey to net zero and I can hear many people asking well what does all this have to do with community wealth building and in my view quite a lot Earlier this week I listened to a bairing presentation by Ted Howard President of the Democracy Collaborative and like Emma Harper I was drawn to the philosophy of community wealth building transforming local and regional economies to deliver a truly wellbeing economy and in his presentation Ted Howard spoke about the challenges of traditional strategies supporting economic development in urban areas that are often simply as he put it a zero sum game predicated on the concept that markets reign supreme that rooting jobs locally is irrelevant in a global economy and that the benefits of economic growth will eventually trickle down he outlined how we need to move beyond economies that are shaped and driven by the needs of investors where working people are simply considered a cost on a balance sheet towards an option that centres the economy around people and their needs and the communities in which they live community wealth building and as the daughter of a local greengrocer I really didn't made that much persuasion I would caveat the observations made by Ted Howard related to the US economy started to resonate with me in the context of the northeast and listening to his perspective I started to think about the legacy of oil and gas through a different lens and I realised that as we stand in the brink of an energy transition this is also an opportunity to transform our places in a way that is putting the emphasis on local people and ownership growing the number of people that have a genuine stake in the local economy As a constituency MSP I have spoken to many local organisations groups and charities that have benefited from corporate support as energy sector businesses fulfilled their social responsibility role in the region arts and creative culture food banks, apprenticeships all supported by the oil and gas sector contributing to community wealth building we perhaps just didn't call it that and I refer to Daniel Johnson's point that he made on this in his opening remarks Last year Aberdeen City benefitted from a £1 million award through the Scottish Government Place Based Investment Fund that supported a range of projects including in my constituency the fabulous Greyhawk Bay Visitors Centre awarded £50,000 offering the best views and often watching over the city an off-grid cafe using hybrid energy and circular rainwater treatment technology and contemporary outdoor creative and educational programs Ingegarth community centre awarded the Queens award for voluntary service and now benefiting from a £400,000 award to expand the centre living examples of a community wealth building approach that seeks to help local businesses and communities have a bigger steak and say in how their local economy functions My constituency also hosts a wide range of small to medium-sized businesses that have been an integral part of the oil and gas supply chain including a local timber merchants making pallets for the offshore sector and a wholesaler supplying the corporate hospitality sector to main but two both businesses that want to diversify into new markets thereby supporting local green jobs retaining wealth in the community and shortening the supply chain Presiding Officer the Robert Gordon University report making the switch published just last week states that the north-east of Scotland hosting the largest energy skills cluster in the UK the region has a critical role to play in our energy transition however it's vital that our energy transition has at its heart a commitment to energy justice where we seek to restructure our local economies in a way that tackles social economic and environmental injustices while building wealth in our communities Last week, last year I spoke in a member's debate about plans to transform a local green space in my constituency into an energy transition zone Economic growth is essential however much of the debate at this point was industry focused so there is now a need for a community orientated perspective where areas are developed in a consensual way meeting both community and industry needs so in conclusion I very much look forward to being part of the delivery of the community wealth building model being developed by the Scottish Government in the north-east context bringing industry, local authorities and others together thinking out of the box enabling an approach to energy transition that has truly building community wealth at its heart Thank you very much indeed, Ms Nicoll we now move to closing speeches and I call Katie Clark for around six minutes Ms Clark I welcome that the Scottish Government has brought forward this motion today and the wide-ranging debate as Daniel Johnson said at the beginning of the debate most people probably don't know what community wealth building is across the country and I think this debate hopefully has spread some information about what it's about and a number of speakers spoke about the core principles of community wealth building of progressive procurement employment chaired ownership the just use of land and making financial decisions that benefit the local community this debate is not a new one in that it's fundamentally about power and wealth and how decisions are made and as a number of speakers have said these are not new issues but for community wealth building to work and to be real it is going to mean fundamental changes to how government at all level make decisions and policy and that's one of the reasons that Labour has put in our amendment that we call on the Scottish Government to look at all public procurement policies to ensure that the community wealth building agenda is embedded at every level because much of the debate today is about local initiatives and about local government but actually the Scottish Government really needs to look at its own practices as part of this agenda also and a number of speakers have spoken about that the challenges we face obviously are not all by any means within the Scottish Government's control and Pauline McNeill is correct to point out the backdrop of a financial crisis that is going to help is going to hurt every community and most individuals in this country and the cost of living crisis and energy crisis that we face but as a number of speakers I was now going to move on to wealth but I'll take an intervention Criacoy, thank the member for giving way will she join me in welcoming the UK Government's levelling up funding which is delivering £100 million in pay easily £20 million in Aberdeen and £38 million in Glasgow in relation to investing in Scotland's communities Katie Clarke I welcome any investment in communities that helps to put money and power in the hands of ordinary people and I welcome that from whichever part of Government it comes from so any initiative at any part of Government which is a positive policy I think all of us should welcome but I don't think this is the place if you don't mind for those kind of party political points and the point that I would make to the gentlemen is that many of the criticism he puts to the Scottish Government are also criticisms that can fairly put to the UK Government but what I was going to move on I'd spoken a bit about the huge challenges our communities face and the challenges of poverty but as a number of speakers have pointed out the pandemic has also been a period where we've seen the wealth of the richest increase and a number of speakers including Maggie Chapman who spoke about the Sunday Times rich list have spoken about that and of course the reality is that the inequality in Scotland has increased over the last 10 years the life expectancy according to public health Scotland between the poorest areas and the richest areas is 26 years for men and 22 years for women and that is the backdrop that we're going to discuss this debate in and I think we are right to say that the community wealth building agenda is an agenda that helps to address some of those issues because this is a debate about wealth and power and globalisation which in many ways is the opposite of some of the principles that we've been discussing here today about community wealth building is an agenda often life out of our economies importing all our plastic toys from China is the complete opposite of community wealth building so I think a number of speakers including Fiona Hyslop have been right to point out some of the local initiatives Audrey Nicholl spoke about a number of initiatives in her community we've heard a number of speakers talk about some of the energy initiatives that are about building the capacity locally whether that's municipal ownership and production of energy whether that is the Edinburgh solar co-op whether that is in North Ayrshire the building of solar farms and wind turbine farms that actually are about trying to generate power locally and keep wealth local because fundamentally what this debate is about is about how we organise ourselves as an economy and I think Collette Stevenson was correct to point out in particular the supply chain issues round about transparency in procurement processes and the need for ethical procurement prioritising local jobs we need a people centered approach to economic development in Scotland we need a people centered approach for local economic development which redirects wealth back into local economies and places control and benefit in the hands of local people we need a local first approach to all procurement that's at a local level at a Scottish Government level and I look forward to this debate and to the minister's response thank you very much thank you very much despite a handful of fairly robust exchanges this afternoon I think that we can all agree that there are some basic principles which are required to make this policy work well firstly community engagement has to be strong it has to be based upon an inclusive approach towards the views of local people and upon establishing local mutual trust now both of these matter in tandem because how often have we seen difficulties encountered by local communities when their views have been undermined in fact my colleague Finlay Carson pointed out that when developers are putting their claim on various community aspects we've often seen that the Scottish Government comes in to support the developer and overturns a lot of community projects for example since I think 2017 we know that of 824 planning applications and that the Scottish Government has overturned 383 so there is a real need to build trust in a level playing field and in appreciation of the vast wealth of local knowledge which can often go a very long way to ensuring local communities make the very best use of their potential secondly in terms of employment investment and growth the community wealth ambitions can complement those of levelling up I think Daniel Johnson said it was about substituting no it's not it's about complementing them and indeed I would argue that they are the essential components together of exactly the same policy ambitions and I think it's also important to stress that the general public especially at a time of very considerable financial stringency desperately wants to see governments whether that's Westminster, Holyrood and local government working together they are tired of the endless bickering and sniping and they just want to see that things get done to benefit their local community and they also want to know that they are getting value for money and that's a point that Audit Scotland has come back to many times in recent months because as yet there isn't sufficient transparency and accountability when it comes to the way that the money is being spent and the scrutiny of that money yes of course Daniel Johnson, big grateful to the Smith for giving way I particularly agree with her point about transparency but one of my problems is that actually it doesn't feel like there's any money that's been committed to this at all let alone there being the opportunity for transparency for it, I wonder if you'd agree with that point I don't entirely agree with that because I think there is some money I think various members have given examples of where there has been some commitment on money but you're right in terms of not having enough detail you mentioned that in your own introduction we do need much more detail but the point that Audit Scotland is making is that we don't have enough ability to scrutinise exactly where that money is being spent and Daniel Johnson sits on the same finance committee that I do and that's a big point which I think the Scottish Government has to address and I also want to say something about some of the evidence that we've been taking in recent weeks at the finance committee with references to the national performance framework now that's very different in scope from the community wealth initiative the performance framework also has at its heart is the improvement of the wellbeing in our local communities and herein lies a big challenge the principles of the framework are all agreed but the practice of the delivery is a very different matter and one of the most interesting points that's been mentioned by a lot of stakeholders giving evidence to our committee is this, how can a national framework function effectively at the same time as ensuring a dilemma about how we manage state objectives alongside those of local priorities and on two occasions at the committee we have been told that this is more a debate about how far the state should intervene and not countermand local individual initiatives and I think that's a dilemma that really has to be addressed we have very senior people in local government telling us that there are already some very good lines of communication across different local authorities about sharing good practice across different local communities but also an understanding of what works well in one community might also not be very successful in another community and that's again something which I think means that we have to have flexibility and diversity within this and that's a very strong message because if you want to drive success then you have to promote the devolution of power down to local communities and to people who are interfering in what local communities want to do and know how to do it best and we can agree that providing a very supportive framework for government policy which supports the creation of jobs, local investment and economic growth and yes the infrastructure which Brian Whittle spoke about so eloquently because if that infrastructure is not there if you don't have your sports communities you don't have your local infrastructure of getting people to specific places then you can forget your community empowerment and of course much of this is based on the increasing willingness of communities to be part of their local communities to shop locally to procure basic provisions and also to use local services and that happened out of necessity during the pandemic but we now need to ensure that that shift is permanent not only is it a considerable benefit to those running local businesses but also in terms of the demographic movements because we know at first hand from the Scottish Fiscal Commission statistics that Scotland has major challenges with demographic imbalance in anything we can do to help local communities to become much more vibrant and to help our more deprived and remote areas is good news if local businesses flourish so too does the local population who will be encouraged to stay yesterday at the finance committee we also took evidence from local government just as we had done in Glasgow effectively a few weeks ago and the very strong message which is emanating from local government is the need to let local people decide on their own future that ring fencing should be used less so that there is more flexibility and more autonomy for local authorities to spend money in line with their own priorities and what they know works best Douglas Lumsden set out in his introduction why local government funding is absolutely critical to the area of policy making because if we can stream that funding then local government and its autonomy becomes a very serious issue Finally, Deputy Presiding Officer Fiona Hyslop seemed very surprised at Willie Rennie's intervention on this issue and he's right there are so many important things that we really need to be spending time in this chamber debating on whether it was Railways he mentioned by Fab and Ferries and I absolutely agree with him but this is important too I won't I think I'm just about to finish on my Yes, you do need to be winding up Sorry, Ms Hyslop We do need to be debating this but I think it would benefit greatly from some of the greater detail that the Scottish Government has promised that we will have we're content to support the motion but it's contingent on making sure that there is an infrastructure around it to make it work well so that it can complement so many of the other policies whether that comes from Westminster or Holyrood or local government I don't think that the public cares about that they just want it to work Thank you, Ms Smith I now call on the minister to respond to the debate I'd be grateful if he could take us up to just before decision time Minister Thank you very much, Presiding Officer I want to begin by thanking colleagues across the chamber for their contributions We have come some way in our journey in community wealth building we've got a long way to go and we've got an opportunity to really accelerate and intensify that process The first debate on community wealth building we've had in the Scottish Parliament also offered an opportunity for a collective brainstorming session for people to bring forward their ideas about what they would potentially like to see in legislation and about what they think that community wealth building can do for their constituencies and regions beyond that, what it can do for Scotland as a whole Yeah, certainly He'll be aware that in our amendment we're calling on the Scottish Government to look at all public procurement policies to ensure that community wealth building is embedded at every level Is there work going on by the Scottish Government itself to look at its own contracts and its own procurement policies to ensure that this agenda is fully recognised and embedded? Minister Yes, I'd be happy to confirm that I'll be supporting the Labour amendment at decision time I think it was Katie Clark touched upon the fundamental point in this debate She said that this debate is fundamentally about how we organise our economy and there were many contributions which turned on it a wide array of different areas around community empowerment asset transfers all related and deeply connected to the community wealth building agenda but fundamentally this is something that is quite radical indeed as Fiona Hyslop characterised it revolutionary about how we organise our economy moving from a failed model of having to redistribute to predistribute now that's not going to be easy but that is a prize that is worth pursuing I'll give way to the member Mr Arthur for giving me when he talks about the organisation of the economy isn't it a properly running rail service vital to the proper running of the economy to create employment, wealth and growth and can he tell the people of Dunbar how they will build their economy when they have no ScotRail services Minister I recognise that this is a hugely significant issue and it has been a subject of much debate and questions in Parliament I have approximately 8 minutes left to go and talk about the community wealth building agenda not that I don't recognise the importance of my member's points but I want to use the opportunity that I have afforded to main this debate to address points that members have raised on community wealth building the point that Daniel Johnson made around the need for clarity and further information is one that I take seriously I recognise having been immersed in this agenda that it can be easy to perhaps assume a level of familiarity and knowledge of the concept that is currently being undertaken to achieve that but I think what's also important is that a lot of what constitutes community wealth building is already taking place I did speak at user term around refinement of approach but that was in recognition of a lot of the work that is already underway and I think it's important that in having engagement and dialogue we help a lot of businesses public bodies and first sector organisations to recognise to self-identify so to speak and there is work that we are doing in partnership with others to help to articulate more clearly in practical terms what community wealth building means so again I take that point very seriously that the member has raised with regards to Mr Rennie's contribution not that he doesn't raise a lot of important issues but I was genuinely very disappointed when he suggested that we should be discussing real issues with the implication that this is not a real issue I actually came across some quite inspiring words our community focus will decentralise power, build wealth help communities to be involved in decisions at an early stage and respect the choices they make for their neighbourhoods we support the people-centred wealth building agenda that's from page rate of a Liberal Democrats manifesto at the local government elections a few weeks ago, I'm sorry Mr Rennie this afternoon he had his opportunity and he chose to pursue an agenda that was not really related to substance of emotion I thought the contribution from Fiona Hyslop was excellent and it provided exactly the kind of constructive challenge that government requires on this agenda and I think that key point about not legislating for the sake of legislating but to make sure what we put forward is nimbo and at genuine value and that is why we are taking a collaborative approach to developing this legislation to have an opportunity to have a debate this afternoon the bill steering route which involves a wide range of partners, direct engagement for local authorities and with COSLA and eventually through a public consultation as well all before we introduce a bill into Parliament so we have an opportunity to identify exactly what the key priorities and issues are that require a legislative remedy I think there was also a really important point that Fiona Hyslop touched on and that is the need around equity around risk, the risk that we are threshold for risk or tolerance for risk with private enterprise but less so with community enterprise and this is something that I have been reflecting upon we perhaps have a culture in Scotland where we are can be very quick to jump down each other's throat to go and point out what is perceived as failure but failure or mistakes is also a learning process and for many community organisations have taken on ownership of assets that has been learned process they have had perhaps false starts and difficulties in barriers but through that process they have accumulated knowledge, expertise and wisdom which not only have allowed them to succeed but ultimately to pass that information on and share it with their peer groups and their communities and that is something that we have to be in mind we have to be tolerant that for an entrepreneurial culture a community entrepreneurial culture that we have to make sure we are giving people the space to have that vision and to make mistakes but ultimately support to continue to take things forward I will give way to the member Douglas Longstone, I thank the minister for giving way if you are part of a government that really wants to learn from mistakes why don't we have a proper inquiry over the ferry fiasco minister the member raises important points but again I am going to focus on the substance of the motion that we are debating here today about the role of land ownership and that is certainly we have forthcoming legislation minister if you could address your remarks through your microphone that way we do have legislation forthcoming in this session a new land reform bill so issues that will obviously be relevant to that but clearly with land and property but one of the five pillars of the community well-building model that is something that we have to consider how we can further support and again will be that opportunity through the consultation and engagement for ideas on that Maggie Chapman spoke very powerfully around our broken economic model as did Richard Leonard about wealth inequality about the need for community resilience and that the community well-building model can deliver community resilience and a number of members touched upon the experience of the pandemic when we saw a level of perhaps solidarity and communitarism that had perhaps been absent for some time and I think as we pick up on the points that Pauline McNeill made we have to not lose track of that vision that we had at the start of the pandemic where we committed ourselves to learning from mis-experience and addressing the fundamental inequality in society community well-building is not going to be a silver bill that will provide all the answers in itself which can play a significant part and fundamentally by driving change at the local and regional level that can have an aggregate effect nationally in transforming the economy of Scotland overall there was a sort of tangent issues raised around planning but it's an important matter because the point that Liz Smith made about the need for this to be done in partnership with communities not to communities that with communities is important and the ordinary operation of the planning system the reality is that the vast number, the vast majority of planning applications are considered at the local level and those for that is an appeal are considered by independent reporters now if there are ideas for reform that members want to bring forward I am happy to listen to them but where I think that the key issue is is to have a more community engagement earlier on within the planning process in the development of local development plans through using the measures that are in place through local place plans which regulations were laid for earlier this year so that is a part of the community well-building agenda as well Audrey Nicholl touched very powerfully as have the others on the history of the just transition and as the constituency MSP for Rent-A-Fishers South which includes Linwood I know very much as my constituents do the legacy of the unjust transition so community well-building principles are very important because ultimately for a successful just transition we have to take people with us and recognising the points where if there is not ownership centred locally rooted in a community then it can be very easy for that money to disappear when other incentives with more community control of assets, with more community control of the economy that becomes rooted the wealth is circulated locally and it is more resilient so that is in turn to the link of what we are seeking to do around a just transition very briefly very very briefly Mr Whittle very grateful for the minister for taking intervention but he recognised that the increasing ring fencing in council budget is strangling council's ability to make decisions locally Minister and if you could wind up now please The vast majority of money that local authorities have is under their control but on the specific issue of ring fencing that is something that has been considered as part of the resource spending review there is much that I would like to say in addition to what I have already but I do just want to conclude by thanking members across the chamber for what has been a very stimulating and informative debate the first of many we are going to have ideas and principles which inform the model so I want to just close by saying my door is open and I'm very keen to meet and discuss how we can take forward this share the gender together because I believe that it has the potential to be absolutely transformative for the people we are elected to serve thank you thank you very much minister that concludes the debate on community wealth building, delivering transformation in Scotland's local and regional economies it's now time to move on to the next point of order thank you very much minister in questions earlier today to Ben Macpherson in his answer he stated that the fact that I had quoted was actually wrong the information came from Social Security Scotland report of February this year how do I correct the record to show that these facts are actually correct and can you encourage ministers and cabinet secretary to read reports rather than make up facts thank you Mr Balfour I think as you and probably everyone now knows that is not a point of order there are ways for members who need to I wish to correct the record to do so but I am very grateful it's now time to move on to the next item of business it's consideration of business motion 4614 in the name of George Adam on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau setting out a business programme I call on George Adam to move the motion thank you Presiding Officer and moved thank you we have a better quiet there please the question is that nobody is asked to speak against the motion the question therefore is that motion 4614 be agreed are we all agreed thank you the motion is therefore agreed the next item of business is consideration of two Parliamentary Bureau motions and I ask again George Adam on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau to move motions 4615 on approval of SSIs and 4616 on Parliamentary recess dates what you said Presiding Officer all moved thank you very much the question on these motions will be put at decision time which we now seamlessly move there are four questions to be put as a result of today's business the first question is that amendment 4580.3 in the name of Douglas Lumsden which seeks to amend motion 4580 in the name of Tom Arthur on community wealth building delivering transformation in Scotland's local and regional economies be agreed are we all agreed Parliament is not agreed we will need to move to a vote and I suspend the meeting to allow members to get on to the voting system