 Well, as the, I think they're Air Force strolling strings, in any case they seem in blue uniforms. They started in and Snowden put his head in his hands. He said, oh she'll hate this, meaning Princess Margaret. And indeed there was a sort of masked expression on her face I could see across the room at this stage. But nonetheless it turned out that he had been at Cambridge when we were there and had been the photographer for the student paper and had taken pictures of a picture of Walt at that time. So I'm not much of a dancer. That didn't appeal to me very much. But the various forms of entertainment that occurred once Walt sat next to Mrs. Loose, Claire Booth Loose. And it must have been the man of La Mancha because Mrs. Loose said that was Henry. The notion that she thought that Henry Loose was Don Quixote was to me an eye-opener and that she reached out for Walt's hand and she had very sharp fingernails. And even later on there were little marks on Walt's hand from her as she was emotionally involved in hearing Henry come back to life as Don Quixote. So yes, there were lots of very nice moments. And for me it was always a complication because I was teaching throughout all this time first at a mixture of Georgetown and American University. I taught in the Graduate History Faculty at Georgetown and this was sort of five to seven deal. I taught at American University during the day and I had kids and carpools. And so sometimes getting ready in the evening was a bit of a rush. And sometimes Walt couldn't leave the office and got twenty-five cents for laying out his dinner jacket, putting the studs in, getting everything, getting it on a hanger. This one time at the very end Henry Kissinger was talking to Walt when I turned up with his dinner jacket and explained, I don't know what evening it was, whatever it was that Walt was going to change, and Henry said, why don't you have two? But we didn't. So for one very good reason that Kennedy had gotten really angry at the fact that the astronauts signed a very juicy contract with Life magazine for their stories. And the reason it exacerbated Kennedy was that he said these were all people educated out of the public by the tax dollars that they got, in this sense, they were not independent operators, they were public servants. So we couldn't take any money for speeches or for anything. Walt couldn't. I could. But it meant that we got a disproportionate reputation for philanthropy because he could accept an honorarium only if he gave it instantly to someone. So once we came back to Texas, our contributions lost various decimal points instantly. And also that we lived on a government salary and we didn't have an entertainment budget. Henry rapidly changed that when he took over from Walt as security advisor. So I could go out to the, I went to all the war colleges to lecture, and for example the Air War College, they hadn't barely figured out about checks. I was paid a hundred bucks and the pay master, Mistress, would come in and literally give me five twenties and bring it home and who took our daughter, took an interest in these matters and she would say, mommy is this a hundred dollar talk? Then I went out to the Foreign Service Institute, I got fifty bucks, but once I went to speak to the National Conference of the League of Women Voters in West Coast someplace, and I think I got a thousand dollars, and Anne said, for how many minutes? And she was in this good math group at Beauvoir, and she figured out what I had. She just said, mommy, that's the way to go, forget the Foreign Service Institute. It was a good period in terms of the fact that we had not enough time for family, but we had some time, that we had things, we did things that interested us. I stopped teaching at Georgetown just because it was too complicated, five to seven at night was a time when too many receptions occurred, and I think the time when it ended in my mind was I shared an office with a priest and a lay member of the history faculty, and it was an office that had sort of chin-high partitions, and we had three different bits of a triangle for our desks, and I would go in and take my dinner jacket, take my long sheath, this was the sixties, and zip into it, and I was always grateful that I didn't ever find the priest there when I had to do a quick change, but one night I got into, I remember it was appalling, I got into a long sheath, high heels, went out only to find I had a flat tire. This was at Georgetown in dark night, there was something, I don't know, Jimmy's all night, something or other was nearby, and I called the White House Board and said I'm in trouble, I have to get to the Australians, I'm dressed, my car has a flat tire, and very nice, the women on the White House Board to me were all heroes. A nice boy said, oh don't you worry, we'll send someone around, and in the interval I said would you tell the Australians my situation, because I'm late, I said yes indeed, so when I arrived yes the White House sent a car, yes I got to the Australians, Howard Beale the ambassador was there with a martini in his hand as I turned up, but I decided this was too much, so I gave up Catholicism for Methodism, because American was very Methodist in the beginning of the 60s, in fact a very nice president, Hearst Anderson, had issued an edict that campus cops should check on parties off campus where beer was served, and this was regarded as an abridgment of civil liberties by some, but that was the beginning of the 60s, at the end of the 60s in the faculty dining room at American University. Girls came around with tiny bottles of red and white in their fingers, and you take your choice, this was in the middle of a working day, but I moved from having a doctoral examination at Georgetown, where we sent someone off to be, I don't know what, but we protocol dictated that we take a glass of sherry, raise it to the successful candidate, and then drown it. The problem was it was very sweet sherry, and I remember being nearly choked by doing the toast for this, and the same day at American University we were sending off a missionary, Methodist missionary to Brazil, and there they served sweet cider in paper cups at room temperature, so it was a draw in both of them, but nonetheless I gave up Georgetown and stuck to American University for eight years, all of which simply says that my life was on various planes. In fact, the day Kennedy was killed, Burke Marshall, who was civil rights under Bob Kennedy and justice, his daughter was having a birthday party, and at the end of that terrible day I went around to collect the, we had the party anyway. Among other people there was Queen Noor to be, because her younger sister was a part of this, and she'd come with her mother to pick up, I think her name's Alexi or something like that, and the shattered faces of Doris Hallaby, Vi Marshall, various other mothers, and these, I think five, six year olds at a birthday party, I collected my flock to take as a carpool mother, and in the front seat Annie climbed in, and as we started off she said, Mummy, did you know they killed the president? She said that the children all knew it, but they were playing a role, and they knew they were supposed to pin a tail in the donkey and do all these things, which they did. I taped for the Kennedy Library on national security matters afterwards, I taped Max Taylor, Doug Dillon, one-third of Doug was still in this national security part, Barbara Ward, Joe Alson, great Friday people, including two sessions at Hickory Hill with Bob Kennedy, and that was another toting around a web, a webcore recorder with great roles, two-hour roles, this was the state of technology in the 60s. The first time I taped Max Taylor, General Taylor, he asked to have the questions ahead of time and a colonel was there and I had nothing really, they didn't need a questionnaire because it was all done by rote. Second time he changed the timing, it was to have been on a Sunday morning, quarters one out at Fort McNair, which is where he was at that stage, and it was the time when he'd agreed to go to Vietnam and he was quite emotional about it, and this time we were alone, no colonel, no questions, and something went wrong with the tape recorder, and instead of going at its majestic rate, it was speeding, and we could easily see that it was not going to something was seriously wrong, but neither of us was skillful enough to do anything about it. Well, I could change the tape, I put another one on, and we chewed up two two-hour tapes, maybe in an hour, and I said, do you want me to take this sick machine with me afterwards? And he said, no, no, sort of the majesty of the Pentagon, we can take care of it, so I was in my office at American University when a call came from a colonel, and I said, this is colonel so and so, Sir Rostow, about General Taylor's tapes, and I said, yes, what's wrong? And the colonel's voice broke, he said, he sounds like Donald Duck, so I had to reclaim it and take it back because they'd just taken the tapes, I still had the sick machine, which was the only way you could adjust it so that the nice tones of Max Taylor could come through, but at Hickory Hill, a child came in in the midst of taping, Bob Kennedy, saying, daddy, daddy, Mary hit me, and Kennedy said, did you hit her back? And Brumus, the dog, came in and knocked roses over, all of this, I wonder whether the tapes still capture this, who knows, but it was a problem because sometimes the published reports of an event were in contrast to what I had heard my people I interviewed say, but our rules, it was early days of oral history, really early, but there were some ground rules, never ask a question that could be covered in a minute, in a memo, in some other published form. So you and if the person you're talking to makes a mistake, gets the date wrong, says he was at a meeting that he didn't attend, never correct him, because this will be a trigger for future historians, that if the mind vacillated to this extent, maybe you should be a bit suspicious about the entire interview. But beyond that, we winged it largely, though, we did homework ahead of time and went around and had no idea what would happen to the tapes, still don't know. Elsevier, are you going to ever write your memoirs? No. This has been a very productive session for this, but before we end, I want to see if you have anything else that occurs to you that we haven't covered that you'd like to include in this. Well, one thing, the relations between the library and the school are, they're confused in the public mind. Very few people realize the distinction between a federal institution and a state institution. Very few people understood in my life people still, there's still some people that I bump into in town who think that Walt was dean of the LBJ school. But it's important, I think, for the future to emphasize how supportive in my tenure as dean, how supportive the library was of ventures that we had in mind and the fact that even though we both tended to, I was going to say, feed off the same trough, Johnson Foundation, there was, I was never aware of any degree of competition. And I just like the record to show that to me, when I was dean across the way, the fact that Harry Middleton was director of the library meant a great deal. And it meant not only it gave me a sense of confidence and support, but I think it's a highly significant tie because the library as a living institution is, yes, it's a repository for scholarship, it's a repository for various adventures, but it has its own special destiny, the school too, but they complement one another. And it was, I was dean for what, six and a half years, I think, something like that. And I don't think that it would have been in any way as valuable an experience if you, out of sight in this camera, but you, into whose eyes I'm looking, had not been in your position as director. James, I'll treat this particular part of the tape with special care, will you? Thank you very much. That's a great, very, very good interview.