 Ableton On Air is sponsored by Green Mountain Support Services, empowering people with disabilities to be home in the community. Washington County Mental Health, where hope and support comes together. Media sponsors for Ableton On Air include Park Chester Times, Muslim Community Report, WWW, This Is The Bronx.info, Associated Press Media Editors, New York Parrot Online Newspaper, U.S. Press Corps, Domestic and International, Anchor FM, and Spotify. Partners for Ableton On Air include Jihad, New York, and New England, where everyone belongs, the Orthodox Union, the Vermont Division for the Blind and Visually Impaired, the Vermont Association for the Blind and Visually Impaired, the Montpelier Sustainable Coalition. Ableton On Air has been seen in the following publications, Park Chester Times, New York Parrot Online Newspaper, Muslim Community Report, WWW, This Is The Bronx.info, and www.h.com. Ableton On Air is a member of the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences Boston, New England Chapter. Welcome to this edition of Ableton On Air, the one and only program that focuses on the needs, concerns, and achievements that are definitely able. I've always been your host, Lauren Silan. All in Silan. Okay. Before we get to our wonderful program today, we would like to thank our wonderful sponsors, Washington County Mental Health, Green Mountain Support Services, and many others, including the partnership of the Association for the Blind and Visually Impaired, and the Division for the Blind and Visually Impaired of Vermont, along with other sponsors, such as the Muslim Media Corporation, Park Chester Times, the Muslim Community Report, and the New York Parrot Online Newspaper, and many, many, many, many others. We would like to thank Washington County Mental Health for our wonderful guest today, Zachary Hughes, who is going to discuss his recent train trip to California, and do's and don'ts of accessible train travel. Welcome, Zachary, to our show, Ableton On Air. So can you explain a little bit about what you do at Washington County Mental Health? I am the assistant team leader at Maple House, and I do different peer projects that they want me to do. Okay. What exactly is Maple Health? Maple House is a peer crisis bed for our CSP population. They come in when they need a rest or a break, or we sometimes also take people who are in between housing. Okay. So what happened on your recent trip to California, and you said it was a mixed bag of problems or pros and cons. So let's talk about that. So the trip was meant to be a vacation for me. I haven't done it in six years, and I just chose to take Amtrak out to California, took it right out of here out of Montpelier, went down the Springfield Mass, stayed the night there, and then took Lakeshore Limited, and then the California Zephyr. But why three trains? One train doesn't go? One train does not go across country right now. They don't have that ability. It all goes out of. My understanding is the two hubs that goes out of are Chicago and New Orleans. So you're going to stop at one of those hubs before you proceed across country. Okay. The sunset limited down in the South used to run from California to Florida, but they had a few issues with tracks and stuff, so they're dealing with that. But I took the Lakeshore Limited, or the Vermonter, the Lakeshore Limited, and the California Zephyr. And this took a total of what, five days? Yeah, around there, three. I'd like to say around four days somewhere in there. Yeah, because the longest part of it was the California Zephyr, which was two days, just over two days. Okay. Anything you want to ask, Arlie? How is it traveling on a train with a wheelchair? You said it was a mixed bag, so what happened? So it is kind of a mixed bag, but the wheelchair gets, what happens is I can use the wheelchair, or I can sit in a seat for the seated portion of the train. When I'm in business, I took business for that portion between Springfield and Chicago, Vermont and Springfield. And then when I got to Chicago, I had a room, and I still had the ability to have the wheelchair. Now, when I got to Chicago, the room is on the lower level of the train. So explain the train map. So the train map is something like this. It's several cars, and it consists of coach, and coach cars, and sleeper cars, and a dining car, and a cafe car, and all that jazz. And basically it's two levels. And so you enter through the lower level, and you go upstairs to the upper level if your seats are up in there. That's where you go. My accommodations were on the lower level in one of the cars. And the issue was is that that was frustrating was that I wasn't able to actually access the upper level if I wanted to, where the activities were, if you will. Like for instance, the dining car was up there, the cafe car was up there, the observation car was up there. So I was kind of down in the lower level all the time I was there. And of course my attendant, the passengers are assigned attendants who are in the sleeper accommodations. There's an attendant who sees to their needs. And the needs I had were just, you know, they had to bring down my meals or drink that I needed. And so that was kind of, you know, I don't act like I'm just gonna ask this question. The attendant doesn't, they're not nursing staff. No, no. If you need that, then you need to bring your own person with you, which Amtrak offers a discount for that. So if you have a companion that needs to come along, they'll discount it. Okay. Now, one question I'm going to ask is important. This is, there's a website that I pulled up and, you know, it's at www.wheelchairtravel.org forward slash railway travel. So it says that train networks across the world, including Amtrak in the United States, can accommodate both manual wheelchairs and power scooters. But the issue is the gaps between the train, you know, when the train opens, you see that gap there between the station platform. And what they do is, according to the website, they put bridge plates or they put ramps so you can put it on your chair. But I mean, on the thing so you can roll, right? Did you have any major problems with your chair? No problems. I had no problems. Getting, okay. No, okay. No. And as a general rule, I usually take my manual chair on trips. It's just easier if I need to get into a car. Okay. I could do that if I had my scooter. My options are limited, almost immediately. But no one on the train gave you issues with the chair? Nope. Okay. No problems with that. But how was the mixed bag? I think what's just really interesting is just the, you might expect something different than what happens once you get on the train. Also, well, it felt very alone down there during the day. I made the best of it. I took pictures from different angles down in the down there. I didn't just stick in my room. But there was nothing, it just was like everybody was upstairs during the day and nobody hardly was down in that area. So it felt kind of like I had a little place to myself, but it felt really alone down there. Because no one was really helping you? No, not really. I'd have to push a call button to get help if I needed to. Oh, wow. So it's one of those things where if you're expecting to be able to access these things, you might not be able to access these activities. So you couldn't ask the, I'm just serious, you couldn't ask the attendant. I would like to go upstairs, please. Can you take me? They won't do that. They can't do that. No. Nope, they can't do that because. So what they did tell me, because I asked, was they told me they are coming out with new trains. And I do believe that there are new cars. I just happened to be on an older car. By the way, that car was built right here in Berry, Vermont at the Bombardier plant. There's a nice plaque in the car that tells us that. So I showed that off to people up here. And I have to say they were wonderful people. Amtrak was very good people. But there's room for improvement. There is always room for improvement. Did you encounter now your trip? Did you encounter any issues? Because, you know, you were telling everybody, you know, that you're having a good time, but you're disappointed. You were disappointed in certain things. When you got off the train, did you have any issues? Well, traveling. You know, a little bit. I did because I ended up getting into a, well, I was smart about it. I actually took their subway system in San Francisco out to the airport. That was fine. I did that because I had a hotel out there. And well, they had a courtesy shuttle that never showed up for me. So I took what I thought was a taxi. That's a problem. That can be a problem. Well, it can be a problem because people actually pose at the airport as taxis. And they have, you know, they charge ridiculous rates to go two miles. Okay, so be careful with that. Always check. Do they give special rates for people with disabilities with traveling to large cities, do you think? Well, I think Amtrak did discount me very well on my rates for travel. And, you know, so I mean, sometimes you fund good rates. Sometimes you don't. It depends on, also, if you're a membership, if you're members of different places like AAA, or like ARP, which I'm not. And like, I was a member of a hotel chain. So their rewards program. So they tend to give you more boost for that. I became a member of the American Airlines Advantage Program. So you took a train back? No, I took a plane back. An American was wonderful. I've heard mixed stories about American. I think they need to make trains more accessible for people with disabilities. Well, I hope they come out with new cars. So it wasn't just being down there. So the other problem was that there was no, like, I thought I would be in an accessible room with a shower. That's what I thought, based on what I'd seen on their promotions on YouTube. But don't you have to request that? What's that? No, I don't. Example, my wife and I have been traveling to old towns. When you call for reservations, can we have an accessible room, please? Right, which I did have, but it didn't, right. So what is your definition of accessible in this case? Accessible in this case? Okay, so accessible in this case would have been so that I could enjoy the same activities as the other people enjoy. That's my issue. It's not about, it's not about being picky. It's about being... So it made you angry that you... I was down there alone. There was no way to get up there without getting hurt. I don't, you know... But they don't have a... So what is it, a wheelchair lift that brings you up there or...? There's nothing that'll bring me up there right now. You enter through the lower part of the train, the superliner, okay? And that's the way it is. It's a design limitation and I understand that, but it doesn't mean it didn't make me angry. It made me angry. I had to talk to a bunch of friends to calm me down because I wasn't happy. I made the best of it. So what you're going to see in the next few days and maybe, you know, I said, you're on my Facebook, you're going to see a bunch of pictures that I took of the trip and it was a few of them that I provided you today, showed you where I was and where I spent most of my time. And that was, you know, people say, oh, you should have been alone. Well, you know, as the conductor said, being on the train was about making friends. So maybe I wanted to make friends and I couldn't really do that from my angle. Well, yeah, you had a couple of difficulties because you didn't want... Was it because of... I'm going to ask you, was it because of coronavirus that you didn't want people to sit next to you or...? No, no, I don't have a problem with people sitting next to me. I had to sit next to people on several legs of my trip. So it's not, you know, when I flew, I had to sit next to people. So I don't have a problem with that. I, the other thing about Amtrak, which is a positive, is they require you to wear a mask the entire time. Okay, so... What about eating? You don't have to wear a mask. Just eat and drink, actively eating and drinking, then back up on your... like that, you know. And that's what they did. And they were very cool about it. They were like, well, you know, they'd tell people on the intercom what was expected. And they'd say, well, we don't want to have to throw you out the window. So I thought that was, you know, a nice way of putting it. But, you know, they were very good about it. I think for me, if you want to ask about accessibility, it's about enjoying the activities. And it's about... and, you know, that aside, everybody was very good with me. It wasn't like I was left there to suffer at all because I... No one does, but I'm thinking, because you said that you had to stick down there. But I'm sure staff was checking on you, right? They didn't check on me. Correct. Okay. So it wasn't like they abandoned me. And I didn't... Yeah, yeah. Today's topic, we don't want to go off on that tangent. Right. No, I'm not going... I wasn't planning to go up on a tangent. My take is about enjoying activities and being able to do the best of the ability. And unfortunately, in this case, the design of the superliner did not provide for that. It didn't ruin my trip. I had had very poor sleep in 24 hours prior to boarding, calculating a zapper. So that actually didn't help that I didn't have sleep. And when I boarded and realized that I was going to be down in this, you know, spot, I was disappointed. That's how I described it, you know. And then the next morning, I made the best of it. And that's really important. And in mental health, we call this radical acceptance. What's part of California? San Francisco. San Francisco. But go ahead. But I was trying to... I was trying to point out radical acceptance, which is a form of mental health treatment called DBT. And that's when we radically accept our surroundings, our trip, our needs to deal with the situation in the moment. You know, and that's what I did. And what I ended up doing that first night out was asking the attendant to turn down my bed. And... Which means what? Turn down the bed. Yeah. Means they opened the... They changed the seat over to a bed. And I do that at night. And during the day, they fold it back up into a seat. And you sit in your seat. Or whatever you want to do. Now, I should point out real quick here that the cabins come with... The one I stayed in had a bathroom. Yeah. And had a curtain to divide it. Had two seats facing each other. And had temperature controls and capable of two beds. Bunk bed style, but I didn't need the two beds. So what? The bathroom fit in one... Yeah. Bathrooms on one side. The seating is on the other side. And then there is, you know, there's a hallway. Sorry. There's a hallway that, you know, goes to the stairs to go upstairs. And there's some bathrooms. Because some of the rooms don't have... You know, may have bathrooms. But people don't want to use their bathrooms in their rooms. So they may go into these bathrooms. You know, but that's basically what it is. And it's very nice, generally speaking. You know, I think if I had been on a view liner, which is one level train, I would have seen the accessibility. Okay. I think being on the superliner, it limits it right now. Okay. But it's interesting having those feelings, just being very frustrated with it. I'm just telling you, like, I mean, spend a thousand dollars here. So we're not talking about, you know, that was part of my frustration. It was sort of like, I spent a thousand in my mind. And then I radically accept the situation, take a bunch of pictures, kind of talk to people as we stop. You know, because they stopped along the way. And we didn't have very much time to get off the train. You only have like five minutes here and there. And they will leave you. So the, so I didn't bother unloading off the train because it takes time to do that. They have to bring the ramp out and off the train. Instead I stayed on the edge near the door to take in air. So it was a good trip. Bless you. It was a great trip. It's better than Greyhound. Yeah. No, you wouldn't recommend. Would you recommend a person in a wheelchair going on Greyhound a long trip like that? Absolutely not. Okay. Why? So sorry to the pros and cons of Greyhound. That's fine. Absolutely not. The pros and cons to the difficulties. There are pros and cons to that. You know, it's a long ride. It's long rides. You don't really, you have to, you know, in your seat most of that time. Whereas on Amtrak, you can get up and walk around. And you transferred, so you transferred from your chair. Mangle. Yeah. To the train seat. Yes, that's right. And back. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And it was really good on the first leg of the trip. First leg was on a view liner. So I mean, it was a lot easier, simpler, you know. And so, you know, view liners are on one level. So there's none of this, you know, and you can go interchangeably between what I was impressed with is that they've made the cafe car and my area accessible. What kind of food? You had, you had good food. All right. So, so the first night out, I had to have caffeine car food, cafe car food out of Springfield when I went to Springfield, Chicago. And that, and I had a couple hot dogs and a sprite. I remember that. Beverage were complimentary in business. So I could have as many beverages as I wanted in business. Now if I had taken a room in that site, you know, like I did in Chicago, they give you meals and beverages. So it's actually very cost effective. People like, oh, it's $1,000, but actually it's cost effective because it's, you're in the train. It's self-contained. And you don't have to pay. Now if you take coach on the train, you have to pay for everything. And I, but I like Amtrak. I, and I, I'm still giving them feedback on my experience. It wasn't bad. I mean, as you point out, as I point out, the staff did not abandon me. So, you know, they were very helpful. In fact, I had to change cabins because we had a plumbing issue in the car sometime in Nevada. So I had to change cabins and they were very, he was helpful about that. So what is some before, before, because we only have a couple minutes left. Of course. What, what, what are some tips that you can offer? So people who are traveling different types of travel for people with disabilities. So tips are to use the help that's offered. There's help services that are offered. You can request them on the website or by calling 800 numbers, which I don't have here in front of me right now, but they're different 800 numbers. And when you're making the reservations, make it clear whether you want help or not so that they can help you. Even at the, you know, at the station or at the airport, they offer different things. Don't say, oh, I can't, I can do it because if, if anything, it's a lot easier to ask for help. Yeah, never be prideful, basically. Because I used to be and it was a pain in the ass for me. Excuse my language. And the same, yeah. But yeah, I mean, they do offer help. Use it. And also make sure to ask what kind of accommodations you can expect so that it kind of prepares you. And do they, what type of discount? Right. Do they give a person with a disability, a person with a special need in a chair like yourself? Well, the, you know, it varies. So the train does do that. The bus does not. Okay. Okay, just so you're aware of that. The same thing with the airlines. Generally speaking, they don't discount it, but they offer the services. So they offer the special services that are required to get you on the aircraft to enjoy the activity to the extent possible. They also obviously accept service animals. Just, yeah, which I won't get to do right now, but they do. I got, I got to see, see a couple of service animals in my transit. All right. Okay. Anything else you want to say in reference to? Did you survive the hills of San Francisco? Yeah, I was traveling within San Francisco. Um, it was. With your chair. Still learning experience and was okay because I didn't experience the hills. Very hilly, I know. But, but it's hard to get around. It can be hard getting around the city. It's just the way it's designed. You think you can get right over to the Golden Gate, but it takes a lot to do it. Right, right. Did you end up going in the cable car? No. What's that? No, no, I stayed very short. And I tell you why I stayed short this time was because of them. There was wildfires. So smoke was spewing into the city. Oh, wow. And so it actually caused my asthma to act up. And I decided to get home as soon as possible. I know, I know. And I'm glad to be back. Yeah. So, um, so. So you didn't get the Fisherman's Law? No, I didn't get that this time, but I hope to next time. So get, so basically get the help you need. Get the help you need. They do. Get us? Yeah. Get the help that you need. Ask about the accommodations you're going to get so that you don't get in there and be like, oh, shit. I can't access the upstairs. At least they'll be able to tell you so you know, before you get on the train in Chicago and be like, huh? So the whole trip was a week, pretty much. Pretty much the entire trip. Yes, it was a week. Yeah. So for more information, um, do you want to give the website and the phone number to Washington County? I will do that. So, so for Washington County, you can call us at 2290591 if you're interested in services or whatever you need there. Mental Health Watch, thanks. And for more information on Washington County Mental Health's website, you can go to www.wcmhs.org. That website again is www.wcmhs.org or 802-225-229. Sorry, 2290591. That's 802-2290591. We would like to thank Zachary Hughes of Washington County Mental Health. Coming on to the show, we talk about train travel and accessible travel. We would like to thank our guests, Washington County Mental Health, Green Mountain Support Services, and also the partnership with the Division for the Blind, Visually Impaired, and the Association for the Blind and Visually Impaired, and many, many, many others, including the also the sponsorship of Muslim Media Corporation, the protest at times, Muslim Community Report, and the New York Private online newspaper. Tune in next time for another exciting edition of Ableton on Air. I'm Lauren Seiler. I'm Lauren Seiler. See you next time. Ableton on Air is sponsored by Green Mountain Support Services, empowering people with disabilities to be home in the community. Washington County Mental Health, where hope and support comes together. Media sponsors for Ableton on Air include Park Chester Times, Muslim Community Report, WWW, this is the Bronx.info, Associated Press Media Editors, New York Parrot Online Newspaper, US Press Corps, Domestic and International, Anchor FM, and Spotify. Partners for Ableton on Air include Yehad New York and New England, where everyone belongs, the Orthodox Union, the Vermont Division for the Blind and Visually Impaired, the Vermont Association for the Blind and Visually Impaired, the Montpelier Sustainable Coalition. Ableton on Air has been seen in the following publications, Park Chester Times, New York Parrot Online Newspaper, Muslim Community Report, WWW, this is the Bronx.info, and www.h.com. Ableton on Air is a member of the National Academy for Television Arts and Sciences, Boston, New England Chapter.