 This is So Tech Hawaii, the Trinity Matters here. Pingo. We're back. I'm Jay Fiedel. This is Think Tech if you hadn't noticed. And of course at 4 p.m. or a little after 4 p.m. on a every given Wednesday, we have Hawaii the State of Clean Energy, which is the longest running show in our entire array of shows. Because it's good. Because it's really good. And then Sharon Moriwaki makes this all happen. She's the co-chair of the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum. Welcome, my co-chair. Oh, thank you. And Aloha. Aloha. And a special guest. We have Lee Steinmetz from the County of Kauai. He's the transportation planner of the County of Kauai. We have a guy who works with him, Alex Wong. He's the historical planner. Say hi, you guys. Aloha. Aloha. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, from Kauai. Good way to say hi. From Kauai. Yeah. Thank you for being with us here today. Thank you for having us. Because they don't come here very often if they can't help it. So why are you here in Honolulu? Well, thanks for asking that. So yeah, we came to attend the Hawaii Clean Energy Day on Monday. And I got to give a small presentation as part of that. And that was really fun. And then for the past two days, we've been participating in a statewide performance measures workshop looking at how are we actually going to measure our progress in transportation? What are the things that we want to measure? What are the goals that we want to set? And how do we want to evaluate projects? So we spent two days working with all the counties, with the State of Hawaii Department of Transportation. That's a government meeting then. Yes. The metrics meeting. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it's good that we get together like that and that you find common denominators and common standards and expectations and metrics, you know, that's valuable. Did that second part, the one with the government meeting, would that work out, do you think? I think it was really successful, yeah. I think there was a lot of consensus across the counties that we weren't really sure whether that was there. And common ideas about what the goals are going to be and a lot of sharing of information with our State Department of Transportation that was super positive. I don't know, Alex, do you want to add anything to that? I think the outcome was very positive because when you work in a county on an island, you're kind of isolated. And oftentimes the conversation kind of goes in a circle between all of the participants within, you know, the agencies. And it was really refreshing to see that the conversations happening on the other islands are very similar and their goals are very similar. Yeah. You know Sharon, you might comment on that. The need to collaborate, the need to get together, the need to talk together, to rub shoulders, have a beer, whatever it is, have a conference. That's right, beer helps. How does that play now? Because, you know, in the past we haven't done that as much perhaps since we're doing it now. I think in the past we were trying to develop the momentum. Now we have a lot of people, in fact a lot more people than we had ever expected. So collaboration is harder, it's more challenging. And yet it's more important because we can go 20 different ways and we won't get to what we all think we're trying to get to is clean transportation, clean energy, and it's a tough nut to crack. So we really need everybody's resources and if we have similar goals and really this time around at the Clean Energy Day we focused on goals and actions so that we could get some synergy and we could get the alignment so that we're all not working across purposes but everybody can stay in their lane but still can integrate where they're going so everybody has a part to play. And I think that was successful in the Clean Energy Day and Lee can say more but it was to bring together this disparate everybody doing their own thing pieces and have people share what they're doing and have others listen to what they're doing and finding out, hey, you know, it's not too different than what I'm doing and I can see where we can build on what they're doing and share. So I think that was the purpose primarily but it was also the conversation. This is the first time we actually had an hour of talking to each other and not listening to other people talking to us and that was really, it was very much the center of what we tried to do at Clean Energy Day and we were very pleasant, at least surprised as well that there were commonalities, there was common interest and maybe then we can take it forward and do more because now we're all aligned to some similar mutual, real interest together. So I mean, that's what we're trying to do and I don't know, you can respond to this, ah, you're all wet char now, it didn't happen, but what might we do to improve that because it's all about us working for us and doing it better. Well, I would, I'd like to say something. Okay. You know, what I noticed was, A, we had some very good speakers, including Lee. Really good, good job, Lee. Thank you. Prepared, really well prepared, thoughtful. I got the bell, I went a little bit over my five minutes. Because it was important information, it was important information that shared a bowl and should be shared and we let it go. And I think the presentations were, for the most part, really excellent. Then of course, you know, the charrette kind of thing that happened with all the people talking to each other, that was valuable. And the closing conversation where our two special guests from the mainland, Craig Dirksen from Portland and Eric Sunquist from the University of Wisconsin, where they, you know, answered questions and expressed themselves, that was pretty valuable. But what I get out of this is that Clean Energy Day is more than the sum of its parts. It's more than just, you know, hearing out people and talking to them. It's that, it's familiarity. You know, one of the comments that I made yesterday was Monday, rather. Monday. Monday. Seems. Today's Wednesday. It's a continuum this week. It has been. Is that we're all getting old together. What I mean by that. I know. Except you. Alex might take a shoot with that. Except you, Alex. You're not getting it. Can we do bring in new blood? That's true. We have to have that. But the point is that we are familiar with each other. We know each other. We can pick up the phone. We can share. We can think of the other guy, one or girl as we are moving forward on a given path. And so we can be inclusive and collaborative all the way. And that's what Clean Energy does, really. It's relentless. Every year, Clean Energy Day. And every year, people get together and break bread and talk to each other and compare notes. I think that sort of bonds up a community which is all invested in trying to move Clean Energy and Clean Transportation ahead. So I found that remarkable and touching, actually, on Monday. And the other thing, too, is we're all going old together. It's true. And it is a community. But it's not an exclusive community. It really is inclusive. We like to bring new people in, new blood, new ideas. And so when we have the camaraderie, it really is shoulder to shoulder. And new people have good ideas. And it gets incorporated. And I think Craig said something about, you know, it's really when we look at transportation. In fact, for anything, for that matter, it has to be inclusive. So he says, you know, they have the, it's not just the bicycles. It's not just the cars and fighting each other. It's how do you make room for everybody to use the streets, to use our public facilities? And I think that's the challenge that all of us need to bring everybody along. It's very complicated. And that's why it's been kind of behind the curve. And I applaud you, Sharon, for you're on it. You're on transportation. You're never going to let it go. She makes so many programs over transportation. We need to talk about it. And we're all the same. No, we were further along this year. We are much further along. But I think, you know, I think that is a challenge. And it is, it's much more complicated than some of the other sectors. Like if you're going to talk about electricity, you can talk about conservation and you can talk about fuel. And a lot of the other sectors are the same. But when you get into transportation, it's so many moving parts as it were moving parts that you really have to think about. And it's, and it's, it is more complicated. Yeah, it was brought home to me when, what's his name? Erica Sunquist brought out those GPS maps to show that they had analyzed the different access time between each point on the map in a given community. And there's a lot of points on the map. So we evaluated the connection point between each point and all other points. This is pretty complicated to see what the flow was, what the accessibility was. And I think with technology today, you can do that, but I also think you have to do that if you're going to be efficient about it. And you're able to do it more because of technology. Because, you know, all of the software that's being developed that enables you to do that. But it's using that to a good purpose. So I think it's the connection between what are our goals and why are we doing it and is it really helping people. And then putting that technology to work for us. So Lee, give us a handle on what is going on in planning in Kauai and how far you've gotten down the path and what we can learn from you. That's called a multiple compound question. But he needs to tell us from whence he's come because they got the transformation awards last year for the plan. I remember. And Mayor Carvalho was there last year. It was a great speech. That was a wonderful honor to address. Thank you for the work you've done. And so we don't want to hear the plan. We want to know what's happened since the plan. So just to back up for a minute on the issue of transportation and clean energy and some of the things that we're working on in Kauai is... And this was something that was really different this year at Clean Energy Day. And again, I think it was the number that different people who came and the group that was there. But a lot of times like other sectors, the conversation has been about fuel type. And in the transportation case, like shifting to electrical, electric vehicles or hydrogen or some type of clean fuel. And that is very important in one component that when you look at our transportation picture as a whole, we have a lot of other issues to deal with like congestion and the issue of access of how do people get around? And is it equitable for everyone to be able to get around? Like those are other key transportation issues. And the issue of just looking at fuel type doesn't get us there. It doesn't resolve those other issues. So on Kauai, we're really looking at multiple things in addition to that. And I'm not going to talk about those because those are already talked about quite a bit. But we're also looking at things like how can we make sure that everybody has access to transportation and what choices do they have? So sometimes we talk about this as mode shift or thinking about getting people to have the choice if they don't want to drive, to be able to walk or ride a bike or take transit. So developing our transportation system to think about all these different modes of transportation and how they work together. As well as doing a slice and dice on the whole community is the whole society is at issue because we're in a transformative mode. P.S., your remarks in detail, we have it on tape and we're making an OC16 show which we'll play next week. So you'll see yourself again and again and again. But we're also putting it on our website so we'll have the whole video of your presentation so that if you want anybody from Kauai to see what you did or beyond, it's going to be there for austerity. So Alex, you were there yesterday and before we go to the break, I'd like to get your take on how it went and what impressed you and what is important about Kauai's experience. Because after all, Kauai is Honolulu's laboratory. What you guys do over there is sort of a smaller market. Maybe a more pure market. What you learn we need to know about because we can use those lessons back. I mean, there are advantages of being small and being able to, it's easier to test things. There's less bureaucratic things that have to happen. And I think we're going to hear from our mayor later, but we're also really blessed to have a mayor who has really strong leadership and really believes in a lot of these things. Yeah, we want to talk to him. So Alex, what are your impressions then? I really appreciated the technology that was utilized yesterday. The SIFT. That was very cool. And I think, especially when we have things in that forum, or even with the public, something like that can really facilitate the conversation. And just the ability to throw ideas up there anonymously, I think that was a big thing too, is to just do it on your mobile phone and throw it up there without your name being attacked. Say anything you want. I could say anything you want. And, you know, it's up there on the big screen. And I think that was, for me, it was encouraging to actually participate and to put my two cents in. Yeah, good. So what role is your role as a historical planner in the planning for Kauai? Well, I'm actually a utility player. Historical planning. County of Kauai is a very small planning department, especially compared to the other counties. So as a historical planner, whenever anything comes through where the structure is potentially, can be deemed historic on either the state or the national register, it has to be reviewed by the KHPRC, our Historic Planning Review Commission. And that's unique to the county of Kauai? It's unique to the county of Kauai. But other counties are allowed to have their own historic review commissions. If you are a part of a certified local government that works with the Feds and National Park Service, you are required to have one of those. And basically it's a commission of volunteers from the community who have some sort of specialty or background knowledge on architectural, historical architecture, or architecture in general, or even just the history of the area, the community. So you're not going to build a condominium on top of the Russian fort? No, sir. I just want to be clear about that. So an example is historic bridge. We have a lot of bridges on Kauai. We have a fort, little one-lane bridges, large bridges that are on federal registers. And if it's historic and say DOT wants to replace it or fix it, that project first has to be reviewed by this commission. Good, but you don't hold them up, do you? No, that is not our goal at all. Our goal is to help provide guidelines and aesthetic guidelines and also architectural guidelines to maintain the character because culture is a big part of not just Kauai, but the whole state. And we want to keep that identity. Yeah, that's beautiful. And that's one of those elements that are so special in Kauai. You've got your head screwed on right. It's wonderful to see that. Okay, let's take a short break during which we will call Mayor Kavaho and get him on the line and we'll come back and he will be here with us. And you guys can say hello, hi, boss. We'll be right back. Excellent. This is think tech Hawaii raising public awareness. Imagine the possibilities in their lives. Good. He is good. Okay. We're back. We're live. We're here. And some things do, in fact, come true. So we have my co-host Sharon Moriwaki. We have Lee Steinmetz and Alex Wong from the planning guys over in Kauai. And guess what? Some things do come true. We have the mayor, our hero, Mayor Bernard Carvalho on the telephone. And we can talk to him and say hi. Hi, Mayor. Hi, Mayor. Hello to everybody. That's great. So can you talk to us about your thoughts on transportation and clean transportation in Kauai? Well, yes, sure. I mean, you know, we're transforming, right? I just hear that. And Lee knows that we continue to look forward to transforming the walkable, micable, complete street, safe route to school, line-in crosswalk, connected kind of community. And giving our people a way of choice to really get out of the car and walk safely from Keiki to Kupuna. But what about people who still have cars? What about people who still want to keep their cars? Yeah, no, no. People have a choice dog. You have a car. We're trying to look at a more multimodal transportation. We have a multimodal planning place. We're trying to encourage more shuttle on our island. We're trying to encourage more opportunities in that kind of discussions we've been having. And of course, in the green, where our bus services are looking at now, the next step in our new buses, electric buses, we're trying to look at converting our methane from the, from the, uh, natural. Ah, ah. And the energy, say, we're going down that road. And I say, come on, you guys, let's look at it. And that's still on the table, but we're kind of looking now at electric buses as well. To me, we have an opportunity not only of course, but I'll provide you to really look at how we manage our resources, our energy consumption and some of the great things that are coming our way. Whether it be vehicular, whether it be a multimodal, whether it be, like I said, shuttle services, whatever it takes to, uh, really transform. Yeah. So Mayor, Mayor, tell us, tell us, is it just because Kauai is small that you can get past all the bureaucratic, uh, you know, we're rascals. Most of us have to go through. Sometimes it offers more opportunity for discussion and details and all fine tuning of a multimodal plan, if you will, a smaller footprint. And so we're so ready to take it to the next level. That's what I believe. So it's always good to look collectively overall and then target the smaller communities on the wrong way, the different parts of the wrong way, different parts of the state and do the same thing. But people got it. It's an emotional part that is also a big part of this everybody. So we're going to encourage our people, our residents to get on board and try it out and test it. It's okay to have a roundabout and a peanut about it and a walking and biking lane. It's okay because that's transforming and connecting community now. So even a housing plan and stuff like this, what we're doing in the future, all involved connecting pathways, walkways, bikeways. And it's important, I believe, that we continue to think that way. And energy savings, of course, is another big part that we're going into as well. And I'm sure to be covered that. But anyway, from resource management, national resource management, clean energy projects, we're all of our street lights, our LEDs now. So we work closely with KJC, our co-op. And so that's a big, big transition already, of course. Our food sustainability, our ag parts. And if I make our ag parts, better people grow what they want to grow. So we'll help them and support them with infrastructure and all the other things they need. And let them take the lead in growing what they feel they should grow. And it creates these sunshine markets all over the place. I mean, I can go on and on, everybody. Yeah, well, you know what? It strikes me, Mayor, that leadership, yes. We've been looking at Kauai for a long time. We've seen kind of a great attitude, a great sense of moving forward under you, I think. And that's about electrical energy generation. You know, now, when the Steinmetz came and spoke on Monday at Clean Energy Day, it became clear that not only was Kauai a leader in electrical generation, but in planning and transforming its society to a better multimodal place where people live their lives differently and better. And, you know, what strikes me is that we looked at one thing, electrical generation, and then a little while later we look at energy planning or rather, transportation planning, we find the same kind of success. So my question to you is, what is it in Kauai? Is it the water? What makes this happen in both of those separate initiatives? I'll say all of you, Bob, what it really is and what I've learned a lot coming from internally and working our way up is really truly pulling the right people, the right heart, the right soul, the right attitude to the table and having a bigger vision. And then everybody working together to get to the vision, internal. Internal government, I have planning, working with parts. Engineers working with transportation and everybody working together. And we all rally along each project instead of having everybody separate. So to me it's an internal overview and overhauling too well and just bridging everybody and bringing everybody to the table. And then having a leadership understanding to let our guys do what they need to do, report back into guys, let me know what I have to do, let's go. And then providing the support that they need. So that to me is a big, big part of transitioning and where we need to be, not only here but overall. You know, before we, before I got in the phone with you, Mayor, we were talking about Kauai as a laboratory for the state because of its small size and the, you know, the vitality that it has to approach these problems. So I think, you know, my own view is that Oahu and the other islands actually, but pretty principally Oahu should be watching Kauai on this and should be learning. And that's why we want to hear from Lee and Alex here. That's why we always want to have you guys at our table so we can talk statewide policy. So my question to you on that is, you know, what should we be looking for? In other words, you know, talk to the people of Oahu for a minute. What should they be watching in Kauai to be most instructive in our efforts in Oahu to go forward? I think it's important to take away the thinking of Oahuai just this month, first of all. Like I said, we're able to really pull the right lead parties together. And I'm talking not only on Kauai, we've thrown our net out to the federal government. We went to Washington, D.C. We talked, we showed things, we explained ourselves, we showed the teamwork effort that it took, and then bringing it back home. And so that to me is the big, big umbrella that has helped us to continue to do what we do. But we move it to the next level, Oahu and the different parts of Oahu. I will target some of the smaller communities where I have built it and work it and have people understand, hey, this is great. It is okay to have this opportunity for the community. And they kind of take it from there. That to me is the magic that is happening here on Kauai. And you've been pulling in all the different from PMRF and looking at the core community college and the health system. All the CEOs, we meet together. All of us. So Mayor, Mayor, at least I'm going to have a question for you. Well, no, I just wanted to add something. I wanted to add something, Mayor, to what you're saying. And that's another part of what you've been really successful at. And that is sometimes what you call action with Aloha. And getting the emotional issues on the table first and working those out. But the other part of that is you've been, you talked about bringing the different groups together within our county, within the government. But you've also been, like you were just saying, really successful at bringing different community groups together that may have different interests, but they work together. So bringing the health piece in, bringing the education piece in. This is the community. Yeah. Bringing economic development. So we're not just preaching to the choir, but we're always expanding the choir. And I think you've been really good at developing how to do that. Mayor, we're about to close the show. We're almost out of time. But I only want to say that it's been rumored that once in a while you actually get to Honolulu. And if that's so, Mayor, I want you to notice a place at our table for you. And I hope we can connect up with you and have you come to our studio and talk to us directly in person. Can you do that? Can you do that? I would not do that. We'll schedule that. We'll get it going. Let's do it. We're going to share it. But I can't. Done. Consider it done. Thank you so much, Mayor. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Hello. Hello. Hello. What a great guy. No kidding. He's always liked that. He's such a great guy. I know. Enthusiastic. So Alex, what's your impression of the Mayor's comments here today? I always appreciate his enthusiasm and just the positivity that he exudes. He's a character that the entire island can get behind. And he's good at rallying people. He does that for me. Yeah. I follow him everywhere. I've been telling people I want to move to Kauai just because he's the Mayor. And as a political leader, you need somebody like that with the positivity and the optimism. Yeah. Great. Okay, Lee, we're almost out of time. I wasn't kidding. But I'd like to ask you the same question we asked the Mayor. What should the people of the law who be looking for, looking at in the laboratory that you're conducting in Kauai? So, gosh, that's a very good question. I think, first of all, I want to say we're all learning together. That we're learning, I mean, we're learning on Kauai, but we're learning as a state. We have a lot to learn from the other counties as well. So, I think, first of all, just being in a spirit of learning is a really good place to be that we can all learn and advance. I think this issue that I kind of brought up of how do we not just preach to the choir, but expand the choir is really important. That's something, honestly, that we're working on and that I hope we can share more with you in the next year or two because we're really worth rethinking how we do our community engagement. We're, as I mentioned, we're really trying to work on partnerships with people who maybe, you know, don't want to talk about bikes or walking, but they care about economic development or they care about the safety of their children walking to school, or they have concerns that are, you know, really good basic concerns of a community. So, how do we look, how do we leverage transportation to try to address these other concerns that are really important? And so, I'm hoping that we can generate more learning in that area. So, Sharon, he said that, you know, there's more to come and he's going to share that with us and we're going to follow him. You know what this means? We're watching you. And Alex, we'll be watching you. You can run, but you can't run. Can I just add one more thing to look at is the relationship of land use to transportation that was talked about, I think, for the first time at the Clean Energy Day. And that's something else we're working on in Kauai. And other islands are working on this as well. It's not just Kauai. It's really become a statewide issue. It's about time, yeah. And it's a really important one. And again, I think we're all going to be generating learning. There's a lot of learning going on in Oahu on that with transit-oriented development and the impact of the rail on how we build our communities. And finally, we're finding ourselves. We're redefining. We're finding new identity, better identity through the process of this initiative, both in generation of electricity and also now in transportation. That's our future. You're at the center of a challenge. That's why you should tell the people what they should kick. Sharon's going to summarize this whole show. Not to put any pressure on it or anything. It's complex. No pressure. It's complex. But I think Jay's right. I think what we've heard today and what the mayor is talking about, it's all about people. And we forget that in the process of all of these, whether it's the plans on the shelf or the goals on the shelf. We're regenerating ourselves because we're finding people are changing. People have needs. But it's not just all for one. It's got to be the whole community together. And I think we're going to really want to hear from you on how you get the expanding the choir, so to speak, as you're talking. Because that is what was happening at Clean Energy, happening today, happening during your workshop, is how do we align ourselves, but align ourselves with the right goals. And I think you're doing it and you're helping us do it. And I'm looking forward to going forward. Something Alex said about optimism. You know, what we have now through this, because of this involved, and married to this is a sense of optimism, that tomorrow will be better than today. It will be. That's what's coming up. It will be. Thank you, Sharon Moriwaki. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Alex Swine. Thank you. Great to talk to you guys. Aloha. Thanks for coming by. Aloha. Aloha, Mayor.