 Hey everyone, my name is Daniel Schweger. I want to thank you all for coming to another edition of Anatomy of a Score with our very special awesome cosmic guest, Mr. Tyler Bates. We should just take names because we are friends now. I heard you had a little indie movie open up this weekend, you know, it's playing at the Lemley. You know, I'm just a soldier in the battle. All right, so how many people have seen Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 2? All right, I'm gonna have to avoid spoilers. We're gonna tell you the entire plot. It seems like it would be out there already. There's been like five million images and things that I don't talk about this stuff because I work under an NDA all the time. So I don't like doing any interviews because people ask me about stuff and they might trick me into saying something or this other movie I did that's coming out four months later. It's like, you know, so I'd rather just not talk about any of it. Okay, I think the NDA has been cleared at this point. I think a couple people have seen it, so yeah. Looks that way. You know, so whenever I do these things, I always like to kind of get clips together that show shows the road we're on to to where we get and you know, Charlie, you really caught my attention when you started out doing some really cool unique kind of again Indie scores for stuff like rated X. One of my favorite jazz beat movies the last time I committed suicide and you did such a really cool and usual score for the slow version of Get Carter. But for me, it's kind of like I think you kind of went next level when you scored 300 Which is based on the comic book. It's a graphic novel of Frank Miller And it really just showed this whole kind of epic nature to your sound I mean, what was there any kind of challenge at all in getting to to the point of you know, this massive orchestral score for 300? It's always a challenge to not get fired. No Actually, you know what? I never even heard a 300 when Zach asked me to do it It was after Dawn of the Dead and So he asked if I heard of the book and I'm like, no So I went over to his house and he and the writer or co-writer Kurt Johnstead showed me the book and they were talking about it. And so we spent about a year or more developing a pitch So there was no deal for it. I was doing music for statues and Drawings and whatnot and then we did an animatic for that movie And I was doing a record at the time with Azam Ali and it was kind of like a hybrid rock Sort of say Middle Eastern culture influence to that music So the timing was pretty good because I had done a considerable amount of studying, you know about Various influences that I thought just I guess serendipitously ended up being an excellent influence for What that music sounded like but I mean everything's a challenge no matter what and I just wanted to do something that was cool and I would rather Try to create something that hasn't been done exactly like Like your hearing and fail You know it trying to create something unique or even commercial than just Trying to emulate, you know what's already done So that's what my career is pretty crazy if you look at the all the movies, you know And every couple of years I get pigeonholed into a new genre, you know at one point I was the urban guy And then I did some comedies Which is funny, but now people would think no he doesn't do comedy And then I did some horror films and did a lot of work with Rob Zombie and Zack Snyder and James Gunn So then that's what I did and then you know it started opening up into other things and It was funny because when we were recording the score Matt Walker of Disney happened to be in London and he's head of all their Feed Park music. He's like big guy. So anyway, he came to my session and we're recording a cue I think it was the cue dad. It was one of those very emotional sweeping cues And he just came over to it. I had no idea And I'm like what he says well, it's so emotional and so melodic and I'm like, well, yeah, you know if you pay me to Hurl bricks at the screen. I will do that But you know, this is natural to me, so And it is Now 300 leads you into essentially your first real superhero score, which is the Watchman I think personally one of my favorite superhero film adaptations ever especially the long version of it which incorporates the comic book And again, it's such an amazingly diverse range of styles. You've got like hardcore heavy metal You've got this pink Floyd's second alia and in this little clip We have just really robust incredibly fanatic superhero music. Well, that's really good at all That was that was fun. That's kind of like a Seen like that, you know, we want to give silk specter like a real beautiful but powerful entrance One that definitely underscores her Equality in the entire bunch So I wanted it to be really kind of heavy but also emotionally complex and yet we're really for the most part peddling in one cord It's almost like sculpting in a way But I think of it more as color and Emotion, you know, I don't really sit down at the piano to do that I form it in my head and then I transcribe Something like that. But the motive behind that was to give her that kind of a feeling And make it fun. Obviously at the end because they do go out on a fun mission and thrill seekers Yeah, that was cool. It just took me way back It was like 2009 or something 2008 what does superhero music mean to you? Mmm. See that's not really a I can't give you a great answer for that because I'm not into it I think they're stereotypes that That have been done so well that I'm bored with the idea of Creating something that's traditionally within the paradigm of what we know, I mean, you know, it's Superman All that stuff that was done since we were unborn, you know, I Mean honestly, it's it's so good like that. I can't think of myself as writing on Something the scale of that so I just completely approach it from my own sense of storytelling and emotion related to the director sensibilities and You mentioned watchmen. I didn't read the graphic novel. I have it I read it after the movie because I felt that the preconceived notions of perhaps What perhaps what I thought the audience would expect from me would would probably be polarizing so I chose not to do that. Now, obviously when you see a scene like we just saw, you know She needs something fantastical to really support her entrance and it's not the same as if she were wearing a business suit so That's a different movie. So anyway, you know, I mean, I just get I put myself in the moment And I think about what would I want to feel if I'm in the audience and I'm experiencing this personal Chops or something, you know, I don't think like that Now Don the dead your first movie square for Zach Snyder was written by James Gunn and And then it kind of began the collaboration, which is now like to guard into the galaxy balling, too So I want to talk about your collaboration actually by starting with two particularly gooey clips from super and sliver That's funny so the first one super was the second movie I did with James Film scoring has changed so much since that era. It's it's not even the same business or process as it once was It's very interesting. So the first movie super That was duct tape together. Essentially. There is like no money to do anything So we just you know put together what we could for it, but it was fun I mean, that's the sensibility of the movie where it's really DIY and It's rough around the edges. So It worked for that now think about that. That's James's movie just prior to Guardians of the Galaxy that movie made $32,000 at the box office You know guardians will make 150 million just this weekend here. So that's crazy But what's really interesting about super is essentially you're playing again a super powered character But in his own mind, which is psychotic, but isn't that What all of us do It's in our own mind. Whatever we think whatever we you know We think we're seeing all the same colors on the wall, but we're really not so I Don't know. It's fun to play with that idea the first Or the second clip was from from Slyther, which was the first movie I did with James that was cool It was a much more traditional score but really the the The mix of that is is entirely why I do music independent of movies and go out and play music Because I can at least do exactly what I want and haven't heard exactly how I want it to be But that was fun, you know James and I've had a pretty a pretty energetic Collaboration since the beginning and it's been really cool Nowadays I would say since around 2012 Everything has changed with the larger movies with the amount of money they're spending to produce them with the the visual effects process the schedules are so frenetic Even if they're long, it's it's a it's like running several marathons to get through one of them so It's interesting looking back. It was such a different Time in a different way that we work together You know a lot of a lot of collaborating just in my studio and now it's definitely different I think you know for me one thing that really distinguishes James movies You know he's like definitely the biggest success story to ever come out of the trauma may a call actually work there very briefly But and again, he's kind of like in your face There's a kind of really warped hipness to his movies There are a lot of fun and again you could say the same thing about a lot of your crazier scores I mean you think you guys are these two Outsiders who have gelled like you have because of that Yeah, probably so I've been through a lot of my life Since the beginning it's been intense. So I I have a feeling that I don't have And I do but I mean it artistically I always kind of just go For broke and kind of go what's going on and for what's in here And as you know, it's obviously formed by the conversation as I have with my collaborators and understanding their sensibility But I I'm not like thinking wow, how can we be wacky or zany? I'm just into the characters and if you've seen all of James's movies You'll you'll recognize the dialogue and and all of his films are very stylistically him Um, and You notice the voice and super marry her that's rob zombie. So on slither James asked me if I could hook him up with somebody who would be like cool and pop culture to just do some voice work So he's in everyone of James's movies now his voice Oh, you know interesting how worlds collide Um, so it's uh, yeah, I mean it was a different time. It was just James and I there was There was no focus grouping and no battery of of producers and everything and now it's Very very intense and it's cool. The end result is is great, but it's it's thoroughly, uh challenging Now when when james sq. Hey, guess what we're gonna do mark We're gonna do gardeners of the galaxy for marvels another, you know, kind of taking a kind of like b level Characters and you know doing this unexpected massive hit with them But what's your initial reaction like when he says hey, guess what we're going to do gardens of the galaxy Well, there's two things first off I didn't know what it was. I was in london. He called me up. We were recording a score for a god of war ascension video game And uh, he says dude, I think I have this gay guardians of the galaxy and he says I need to know are you in And I'm like, well, yeah, I did pg poor and I'll do whatever this is So So, you know, I gathered, you know, again, I looked it up. I'm like, oh, this is a big deal Um, so that was great and I was really happy for him. I never doubted him at all so I had an agent at the time who I'm still friends with and I'm back with people that I Had begun my career with and I'm very happy But when I first went to these people to represent me, I said I was going over my clients or my directors or whatever you want I'm like, yeah, james gun. I told him about super how awesome it is and they just rolled their eyes They rolled their eyes because it says 322,000 of the box office I said, I assure you this guy's going to make a movie. It's going to make a mark in hollywood like a big one and uh, I like So, um Sure enough, that's his next movie So I never doubted it because I know him well and I know how talented he is and how driven he is to to expand on his His talent hence the term expansion that is uh, elaborated on in the movie um But uh, there's a lot of him in that movie for sure But uh, the one thing that I really do enjoy about working with james is you come out of the experience stronger and better for it and you know, there are times where You want to kill yourself or kill him or something because he pushes really hard, but At the end of the day, you end up a stronger and better collaborator for it. So Uh, you have to put yourself in that situation if you want to If you want to grow as an artist You know one thing that I think you know a charm of the guardians is that you know, well the adventures You know, you've got a playboy, you know Patriotic hero, you know characters who are for the most part pretty self-assured about who they are and who their mission is The guardians are essentially these misfits who are thrown together who become Inadvertent heroes and have to learn how to you know get along. I mean, what was your reaction? You know once you found out uh, who these characters were Oh when I saw the first image that was released, you know when it was announced james was doing the movie I'm like wow that is awesome as a picture of the five from the first film That was that was really cool. The thing that I really liked about it was they were not They were not all pristine and you know incredible Superheroes with superpowers. They were all completely, you know Fucked out so So I can relate to that broken people Um, you know tend to interest me more as far as my inspiration to write, you know Not looking to paint monuments. I would rather you know kind of work in a more dystopian You know the environment and these characters and the dynamics between them I knew once once I familiarized myself with the property that it would it would challenge me to write in every Pretty much every style or emotion in the film and of course james wants us to relate emotionally to these characters completely In reality not writing raccoon music or treat music, you know, so You know, we want to root all of our emotions and in a reality And that was something that I really was excited about because it was the first chance. I think I got to Really blow up an emotional score Now what's again one thing That's great about your score for both of these films is that you've just got such a wonderful superhero theme You know just like what makes a great superhero theme for you You're the one who should tell me that because you know way more about this stuff than I do You know, I think it's sense of no, you know every soundtrack that's ever been made People who hear who know more than I do but but I mean no for me It's a sense of here look the thing is music The music has to be careful not to to slip away from It's an association or attachment to The heart of the characters and that's their Inner dialogue there's something there's a humility inside them regardless of what their behavior is on the exterior that is important to In view of the music with and I think sometimes, you know It's very easy to get caught up only with the visual side of it in the fanfare of How the characters are presented to to lose touch with that intimacy and I think that's something that I value a lot when I write music for Anything, you know, I mean it's it's really about understanding the sensibilities of the characters. It's about understanding the sensibilities of directors and producers, you know I'm not one to to judge people Clearly if you're aware of everything that I do I want to understand people so that I can become you know more informed artist But one thing is is concurrent and all the music that I do is that it's all attached to some sort of inner dialogue with the characters That's never spoken Well, I have two clips from Guardians of the Galaxy that I really show off the wonderful theme towards the end of the film Oh, yeah, there's a story behind that There's a reason you can hold that infinity stone Okay, so All right, hey, oh group cocoon was the first one. That's what that's called So and james asked me to write a sequence for him to film to and that was written from the script and then he shot to it and The music stayed almost exactly the same which is remarkable considering the picture changes so much when we're doing one of these movies for a 90 minute score We deliver about on the first one 1100 minutes of fully Mocked up orchestral cues. It would probably be fine to sing in any movie You wouldn't know but That's how intense it is But anyway, that was cool that he shot to that and so that stayed intact and You know, there's so much noise going on in this the picture. I wanted to Develop a slower moving theme so that it didn't get completely canceled out by all that the noises Again, you know, once in a while you just have to do some standalone music to say you can hear all the details I get the very end there after they grab the stone. There's so much detail in the music that you don't hear that You would feel it if it were not there, but but you don't really hear it So the story about that there are two two themes that are playing on that That sequence where they all join hands The first one was the Guardians of the Galaxy theme which was later Named Black Tears and so it was also written for the first movie and we thought that was our main theme And it's beautiful, you know, and it was inspired by Quill's mother passing away and You know, I I can relate to that Personally, so that's really what that was Inspired by for me was was my own experience, but in In the process of writing the score for the set the the actual movie when we're in post-production James calls me up one day I'm already like doing myself and my crew. We're all doing the 18 hour days seven days a week So he calls me up is like dude, this is a it was a Saturday. I remember I don't think we have the actual Guardians theme and so My response inside my brain was not oh, that's great. It was just, you know, one word So I'm like, okay, this is look man Black Tears is incredible, but we need something more triumphant. Is it okay? He said something that a four-year-old could see I said, okay, let's see what I can do and so I I tapped out two themes just quickly because if I You know just kind of ruminate on it for a while. I'd spend a week I just so before I could think about it. I just did two I sent them to him. They were really crappy mock-ups and it sounded like You know They're just very basic And so he called me back and he's like dude the second one is it I mean really you like that one better in the first one. He says, yeah, that's it So actually the good thing about that is let's still have the first one And it's pretty good. So He he liked that and at that point I was just happy that he was into it and Then we started, you know blowing that up into a full orchestral bliss and It's obviously stated very prominently many times in the second movie It's written into the script So it's not just completely an arbitrary choice for me and believe me all the choices are made by many people So it's a real challenge to emerge through this process and maintain your artistic voice throughout But it's a it's cool. You know everybody I deal with in these marvel movies is very Very insightful intelligent and Actually very pleasant to work with regardless of how much stress there is on the situation but I was happy that we came up with a theme that james liked and has been developed into David Hasselhoff's new single So You know didn't see that coming You know and it is funny like the story of my life is literally like, you know It's two o'clock on a Thursday night or what Friday morning and I'm telling My friend Marilyn Manson like you had to get out of here. I got to get up at seven in the morning Yeah, just we work together and and so uh, then the next morning, you know Hasselhoff's coming over like a 10 And that's Every day of my life is like that. So well, it's it's extremely Challenging and exhausting. It's really fun like this last few years of my life and it's just pretty Incredible, you know, I mean I couldn't even have written a script like this Yeah, so it's nuts You know one thing that really hit me about eGuardians 2 is just how emotional the the film It's actually for me one of the most emotional of the the marvel movies And what how do you want how do you want to capture this film's overriding theme of fatherhood and family? Well, I think it's You know, I mean James has a great relationship with his folks. So I'm guessing that this is not This is not directly derived from his personal experience, although he's a very Sensitive and aware Person when it comes to the myriad dynamics of life And I'm good with my dad, but you know, there are definitely there is definitely an absence in my life That I wish that I had experienced, you know, I wish I had David Hasselhoff as my dad But I think again it it comes it comes with knowing what absence or loss is in your life and Yearning for that to be Answered or quelled in some way so For me, I I'm very Comfortable and familiar with that and it was nice to be able to stay in a very epic way as well as a more intimate way on Guardians 2 so That was cool, you know, I welcome that and don't get me wrong Like Belco experiment was absolutely disturbing, but you know, I enjoy doing that as well as a completely different animal Yeah, I really love the character of mantis in guardians to Empath the character trying to find her own way. How do you do I hit her? um She's cool, and you know, of course, I didn't know what character that was until I read the script and I didn't know if james created mantis or what, you know, I I know it sounds Almost aloof, but it's just better for me not to know So that I have a true first impression of these These characters and they don't just Fall into the line of everything that we come to we've come to expect I'm not surprised by the emotional depth of the movie. I mean james is very very comfortable With every emotional dynamic and he's very comfortable experiencing too simultaneously, even if they're very disparate So that makes the writing of music for his films A challenging and complex endeavor because there is while there's beauty As part of a statement, there's also Sometimes violence there's you know sadness Adjust opposed with a very hopeful feeling and you know, you find several situations in the film that are clearly you know They enview with that duality Now I mean now who would have ever thought that one of kurt russell's best performances would be his ego the living planet And he's just wonderful in the film and there's again some such emotional resonance to this character Tell me about handling ego In relation to kurt russell Again, you know, it's it's hard to think too much about it because you know, I'm writing for this character or i can go Holy shit, it's kurt russell I mean you kind of have to You just have to divorce yourself from Thinking that way at this point, you know, I've been around a lot of large personalities in my life, so I look at it as his work although I was thrilled just like doing the way with martin chain and that movie was it was such a An important experience for me personally especially because that movie means so much to their entire family To be part of that Was really cool, you know But again this with kurt russell like I don't think if I were you if you're met him said I think this might be your best or one of your best performances ever because no one really wants to hear that Like wait, what about this or this or this so You know, I'm cool with it because I know that I haven't written my best music yet and Challenge to write the best thing, you know today or tomorrow because you know it gives a damn what you did 10 years ago When you're in the business, so I'm cool with it, but You know, I don't know about actors Now, you know they they have you know movies I have what they call Irving the explainer and the guardians to you've got ego the explainer Which is one of my favorite sequences in the film, which is this really kind of great tricky Pink Floyd's guitar vibe and you you actually did that live that's a That was the that was the beginning of that idea Sometimes I get completely stupid and decided to put myself in a situation that could be Good like the outcome could be good or it could be disastrous So I do this oftentimes to create a conversation about music that makes the music itself the idea of the music very tangible to everyone Around even if they don't understand how to talk about music, but they're there when a music moment happens They now feel part of the process and I think that you know, genuinely, that's what I Aim to do if people are part of the collaboration. We want everybody to feel Emotionally invested in it and then and obviously included respected everything you want to Adjective you want to say that would go along with that But I felt that with guardians because James is usually so busy. He doesn't come to my studio Which used to be entirely on his way to work But every 10 minutes of his day scheduled on a movie like guardians because of visual effects and adr and everything else that's going on with it So my music is presented to both him and all the executives in my music editor's Room, which is you know, probably a quarter of the size since dark room and he he arbitrarily determines where The music will sit in the mix and it's with sound effects and dialogue and after a while It's like the music just appears in the computer, you know, there's not this This disgusting an idea and then me being able to do something like they are on the spot like in super James and I were talking and I just picked up a guitar and started developing a piece of music while he was there And he's like, yes, that's totally it. You know, so there's a lot of power that the A collaboration that derives from that experience. And so, you know, while we know each other very well Sometimes it's easy to think. Yeah, well, we know each other so well, you know, blah, blah, blah But I really felt like we needed to reconnect musically as a group So there was a sequence that they had been working on in real five And it had been kind of editorially Developing a little more slowly than the rest of the movie. So they said just hold off on this for a while And it was when it was time to address it Um, I decided okay, I'm I'm gonna have a music moment here. Okay, we're gonna do something Different so I brought My guitar violas and apps and pedals and all kinds of stuff into the music editorials office and I asked that we said one extra 10 or 15 minutes with James for this particular meeting so, um We were done with the meeting and I said, oh hang on a second I have something for you, you know, because we're playing back music that he was anticipating hearing But we weren't really focusing on this segment. It was four and a half minutes So I said look, um, I want to play live to the picture just so that we can really, you know You know get an idea for what we want to do how we want to approach this segment So it was really interesting because I I did a dry run like I I knew the movie But I hadn't worked out the music. I was just gonna go So, uh, I started playing and then I used the loop station to take phrases and repeat them Which obviously if you don't hit that just right, um, that's really bad So anyway, uh, it was going pretty good And and it was it was neat because James just he blew up. He's just like that's not fair This is it's not fair. I love this and I'm like, well good, then let's do this and I'm still playing the picture And uh, that's how that worked out. We recorded that meeting and I took that four and a half minutes and transcribed it And that's really what's in the movie. But it's it's expanded the orchestra and proper recordings That was cool. And it was it was a powerful moment because it really re-centered our Our collaborative energy and put the focus back into that and we were, you know, not long after that going into orchestration mode. So it's a very sort of Technical mode that doesn't involve the director a great deal Now after guardians, you're moving on to a another marvel character who's going to be a netflix. He's called the punisher Uh, what can you any sneak peeks you can give us about your approach to that show? I know that I have to write 10 minutes of punisher music today Oh boy Holy hell That is really cool. I you know, again, I didn't know anything about the punisher, which is I guess blasphemous because anytime someone hears about the punisher like they say, oh, yeah, I'm working on this thing punisher. They're like, what? And it always comes at the hand just or what? so I'm like, awesome First off the people I'm working with are fantastic Steve Lightfoot the writer and showrunner is Is great a person as you could ever work with so I'm thrilled about the opportunity to do it and I think we're taking a Not surprising approach musically to addressing this character as opposed to how Uh, the punisher appears in daredevil It's really great. I can't talk about anything You have to literally kill me Well, you know, it's like Yeah, I can't you know, like I'm super excited for atomic blonde But I can't really tell you anything but I can tell you that you've seen the trailer And I promise you some movies you see the trailer and you're like, yeah, I saw the trailer No, that movie is awesome It's it's so so good. So from first beat to the last it's really great Does anyone have any questions for Tyler? Saturday Well, thanks, uh, gendi is a close friend for a number of years And we did a show years ago called symbionic titan and there were only 20 episodes unfortunately, but I really loved that show and he's a genius in a way that um Is so not hollywood and gendi has a very blue collar attitude, but he's a very very smart guy and awesome once you get to know him So with samurai jack the interesting thing is we didn't realize until there we there was a premiere party after we'd done a few episodes And so he asked if you know, I'd put together some kind of a performance for it And so we did a 10 minute thing at the ace theater prior to the The first three episodes being screened Back to back And he was completely blown away at the time because he had last done samurai jack 13 years ago So all of a sudden he becomes aware that there's a massive following for it now And it was kind of a little boutique thing back in the day So he was really excited about it and I'm kind of glad I didn't know that it was super popular or anything because again, there's a certain Pressure or like a preconceived idea of what it already is because I think they did like four seasons But this one's different because it's on adult swim So, you know, he's able to hit a little harder and be a little bit edgier with some of the The graphics and the topics and the language and whatnot He didn't ask for any reference to any previous music For samurai jack and obviously when we were getting into this, you know, when he asked me to do it I had the punisher going on and guardians So He's said look, I know you I know you can't like do The show but I want you to be Involved and oversee everything if you're you know, a couple of your collaborators will work on it And I said well joe, she works with me every day. She's She's a young composer who's really growing rapidly with her Her talent and deeter hartman who works with me who worked on guardians and many movies with me. He's a great great composer There's something to be said for that alone that you know, I don't think a lot of the people who contribute to Making scores what they are In the end are really acknowledged and recognized for their talent And not everybody is truly capable of actually being in the driver's seat and Navigating that or ever getting to the point where you get hired or being able to You know, we work on packages. So sometimes I'm carrying a lot of money out of my own bank account to get things done until I get paid someday, you know, and um So deeter has been with me a long time and Tim Williams who also has worked with me forever. He was he was a little busy He said no, I'm gonna do this other thing and plus he was working with me on guardians, too and So joe, you know, she wanted to give it a shot. So Gendy was very comfortable with deeter and joe an As long as I was involved So he comes in for a spotting session and that's where we'll watch the show and discuss music and where it's going to be placed and You know the dynamics and emotions and gendi is the ultimate when it comes to storytelling and emotion and When we first when I first met him on Symbionic titan I went to his office a cartoon network. He's busy doing hotel Transylvania 3 right now. So He's just at his house, which is near my house or he comes to my studio or is it sony? Anyway, so how come, you know, I learned that he worked this particular way years ago But it took me by surprise again when we started working on samurai jack. We're ready to spot the first episode And I told joe an I'm like record this So we're small talking, you know, because you know, we hang out and do stuff when we have time And so after 15 20 minutes of you know, how's the kids all that stuff like you ready? Okay, I'm ready like Here we go. Boom hit the space bar the show starts playing and then he's like He beatboxes the entire sound design. This is some music. I'm thinking right Here So he'll do it like he's a six year old in his backyard You know, but it's It's not pretentious at all. It is really really insightful and helpful And it's a clear expression of how he's feeling about the storytelling and the show itself And he's very clear that this is sound design And then this is music and they very rarely other than the practical sounds You need to hear like dialogue and maybe the dropping of an object or something I mean, they very rarely overlap So it's great that the power of the music of that show has been able to speak to people I'm really happy that Joanne and Dieter get a composing credit for doing the show because they both deserve it very much And you know, I I help Distill what gendy's looking for in these meetings and I assist to make sure the process is going well, but Dieter and joe have it and they've done a great job and we just finished the final episode today So, um, it's really exciting. It just feels good to be involved with something where you know that That the people behind it are very artful and they challenge themselves and they're humble and they're really Excited about it. So it's a privilege to be part of of it in on any level Any other questions for time Obviously This is funny, so Obviously, if you know much about me, I've been working with Marilyn Manson So I go out on tour with him to support them musically work on together and I'll play some of the other stuff too We're just finishing a new record this weekend and it's really powerful. So I love the fact that I've gotten back to my first love in life, which is guitar Even though my musical Training began before then So I do collect some guitars My favorite guitar is it gives an es 347 and when I play On tour and for most things I play Schecter guitars, which my friend is the president of that company and designs all their guitars But my es 347 was his guitar that I got from him many many years ago and so he designed a model that I play with Manson after that guitar and I love it and you know, it's not the end of the world if I break the ones he gives me Because you know trust me. I mean I nothing is lost to me. I'm so fortunate to have opportunities to work and that actually somebody is asking me to a dance But sometimes the stress of it all and the pent up Anxiety from getting so many notes and adjusting to picture changes and trying to do a great job And everybody in your business knowing you're doing a gig like guardians of the galaxy if I fail at that Everybody knows it. So the pressure is so high So to go out on tour Sometimes at the end of a show just to take a guitar and throw it across the stage Fucking awesome I'm kind of curious about like, you know your process with You know the higher ups and the backseat driving and the bad notes About you know in regards to how how big to go because theater is different On the big screen then like later viewings on on tv like blu-ray or whatever um As opposed to when you're just doing your own thing and you're in your zone You know, well, there are different types of collaboration, right? Obviously. This is a monster I guess this movie is going to make a billion dollars first not for me, but for someone So we you know, you know the nature of the beast and While you never really enjoy notes that are diametrically opposed to what your Original idea is or your instincts and believe me we go through Every possibility for every sequence and usually end up back at the first idea It's exhausting, but you know, it's sometimes people have a great note and I agree with it sometimes, you know, of course So we want to examine Every note and if the score gets better for it if the movie becomes stronger for it, then it's good You know, I don't have like an ego problem about my music This is commission and my heart and soul is in it, but it's owned by marvel and then when I work on records Like in with manson, it's the two of us. So whatever we like is what happens And so that's it's up to me to do stuff like that so that I can be effective In a collaboration of a larger sort So I'm not trying to hold on to this this You know myopic vision of myself or my own music in the context of a massive blockbuster movie With manson, it's just him and I he and I having a conversation and I Literally write the music on the spot with him there and that's how we do it It's just us. There's no notes. There's no nothing So that too is great I would say that this type of work on these larger films has helped me in every facet of my My creative life because it makes you stronger It makes you get to the focus of your ideas quicker to be able to write songs on the spot To know no matter what three hours from now, we're gonna have a song And we're gonna have a good one like manson and I have never thrown away a song Everything's been on a record or in a movie. So I just you know, you don't like you can't miss the point when you present music to everybody On a movie like this if you miss the point twice, then there's might be someone else who who can get the point if you get what I mean so Now that said the marvel executives are great They know what they're making. I mean guardians of the galaxy is like this big deal But it's also a pixel and a massive Marvel universe and kevin feige knows where this is going as does lu and victoria so Their perspective is valuable to me So that I don't you know that I satisfy what it is that they That common denominator that is going to work in the marvel universe And they still allow Me to be myself So their their requirements are Pretty general and just you know, sometimes kevin'll say hey, you know, I would really love to feel the guardians theme here I think this is the moment And oftentimes, you know, it's already been done and we just bring up another version of what we're listening to, you know another q and it's there so I'm just trying to get out in front of everything But if somebody has a great idea, it doesn't make me a less lesser composer. It doesn't bruise my ego or anything like that it's like It's not that I don't care. I do care and that's why I'm open to hearing You know, I'd want to learn more about what I'm doing and Learn more about the craft and learn more about people's sensibilities and storytelling and you know, hopefully I'll do something that's really Really good at some point, you know, so That's it. I mean He he gives me all sorts of notes In my dreams and he uh He said you were really connected with the character for 40 minutes Was there a particular character as being a guardian that is connected to music? well the first one I just can't help it because you know, this kid's losing his mom You know, I wasn't as quite as young as him when my mother died, but she died in an accident So it was the sense of loss and tragedy Is it rang very familiar with me, especially because my mother was such a music enthusiast and is probably Why I have a career in music because She didn't see me as a freak like my father saw me as a freak when I was a kid. So um And I probably am but uh, she just you know, we just had this this culture of music In our lives and you know, she bought like 10 records a week So music was happening all the time and sometimes I'd get into something like kiss, you know I'd be like he's really awesome And she'd be like, yeah, come here. Let me show you something, you know She'd play me some something relatable like Jeff Beck or something. I'm like, all right. I understand So she kept kept my head in the musical side of music and never made me feel that it was a senseless endeavor to see my life as that so I've never ever made the choice to be a musician That related to that scene strangely enough My wife and I were dating and she was in New York and I was out there for a few weeks with my band We're doing the residency and shows all over the place and when we left to go for the rest of the tour She made me two cassettes And one was awesome mix volume one and one was awesome mix volume two and it looks exactly like those cassettes And I'm gonna find them I'm gonna find them because they were from a long time ago, but when I saw that I was like, what? So That was kind of a cool relatable thing, but as far as characters, I mean I really I really love the group character because you know We're feeling group, but you know, we're obviously not led by Clear dialogue obviously if they need to clarify a beat of the story then rocket will interpret what he said for us but I thought that it that was an opportunity to really open up emotionally and write for that and then of course The black tears theme is based on peter quill losing his mother and so that you know that Has always stayed with me and then on the first movie Um my eldest daughter played all the piano parts used 12 when she did that so that was a big deal for For me because it's not because she's my kid. It's because I've done a lot of movies where they're light piano parts and they sound ham-fisted sometimes on the scores and I'm like, huh, but she plays a beautiful You know sense of grace and emotion So she actually went out and played with the London Orchestra on this one at Abbey Road. So that was pretty cool 15 years old I hadn't done anything but shovel horse shit at that point I grew up on a ranch. That's a whole other story Was there a cue that was unused from the first one Oh, they they definitely put some music of mine from other movies. They are very good about it I just I'd say I'm not going to listen to any Anyone else's music It's it shuts me down So some people don't react Well to that but when they understand and I'm willing to create something right then in there Then they are comfortable. James knows me well enough. So he is comfortable with it It's kind of interesting. There was one cue like like I said the business has changed. So when I did movies like Donna the dead even though that happened quickly They're no notes. I did 69 minutes and 59 second score. There was not one note. It was just love notes. It was like It's great. I went a decade with no notes Now it's all notes. But in about 2010 or 11 things really started changing. So Just because of the digital media that the tempo at which films can Change and and and they can you know examine new ideas It's not always Is organic and I that's why I write music in advance because as soon as you're in the post-production everything's like a speeding Train what did I say to victoria at marvel? I said, you know what writing music for this movie Is like painting a mural on the side of a speeding bullet train and she's like that is great You're so right. I'm like, yeah, because you know, it's changing every day It's like by the time I show a piece of music the picture's already changed And you just can't chop chop chop all the time because the voice leading between chords and here I'm getting very tangential but um I remember there was a cue or two that was tempt from one of my other films And and I spent so much time especially watchmen like I was just in it for like a year you know That I couldn't divorce myself from that piece of music And so tim who is my orchestrator who's an awesome composer in his own right? Uh, you know very close friend of mine is the tim Can you rewrite my temp the temp of my cue because I can't see it any differently And uh, I said, you know, they wanted imbued with that feeling but I I can't do it And do a better version of that And so he did and um, then from there then we go back and forth and You know a lot of the times there's there's many phases of music development But when we get into the orchestration part of it tim Handled he's the orchestration later and he has like eight orchestrators who work with him That's how many notes there are in the score just for the choir if you can fathom this there are 7200 pages of music just for the choir parts For this movie So the the orchestra itself is way more because there's it's really complex Underneath the melodies, you know, so there's a lot of notes in there But anyway, so in orchestration, I'll go to To tim studio and we'll go through each cue and we'll discuss. Okay. Maybe we really want this to sing Let's add a couple trumpets at the top of this french horn line And then sometimes, you know We'll get to a cue and I'll be like hang on a second. He has two pianos in the studio So I'll sit at a piano and I'm a shitty piano player, but I get my ideas across and I'll come up with you know Counter melodies and different voicings for chords and stuff and we make all the adjustments there So the music is is curated over time It begins with my themes and my initial Ideas and then we all work away But when I'm writing forward and then there are 10 adjustments that need to be made in reels two and three And well, it's friday afternoon and we like them for the money night screening. So You know, I have to have a team of of people that I know and trust and who know me and understand my sensibilities But uh, I'm fortunate enough to have people that I really admire who I think are great And I think there's more of like the record producer's mind set of myself is looking at everyone's unique talents and voice and finding a way to To enlist them to to be who they are in the context of what we're doing like who I am is who I am But in the context of guardians of the galaxy, it's James Gunn's score, you know, so I call That together and we all are very enthused by music and still, you know continue to enjoy Finding new music and exploring different ideas. And so there's a lot of conversation Uh, and then I'm writing and you know, but it's fun, you know, I try and make it Create an environment where everyone feels really Really happy and and like they're very much part of something and not stuffed under the cover Now uh, in summation that James's analysis back on board for guardians, uh volume three, uh Where where do you personally hope these films go? Just as movies musically are themes for adam warlock bubbling around your head right now It's interesting. Yeah, he He did ask me to do the next one at the premiere um I would like to just I'd like to be a little harder with it musically I'd like to Hit some drums and play more guitar in it Not diminish the the emotional impact But um, I would like the score to take on a more dominant role I mean the songs are always going to be there, but there are moments sometimes where I just wish it was a score moment You know, and maybe it's because I love the song. I don't know like the chain. I love that song it's my favorite fleetwood max hog, so I would love to have scored that because I probably am feeling the Emotion of seeing the movie with that in it. I don't know. I just I really don't Pontificate as to what I hope the next one is. I know it's going to be great because I'm sure james is already looking at the choices he Feels he could have made for this And the depth of character that he'd like to explore and express and another one So I don't really have an opinion about it. I know he's going to come up with something that's great And I guarantee you if he's doing volume three it will It'll be it'll be the best of the three I'm sure of it. I'm sure it will be Let's give it up for tyler baits