 So the Monday, May the 7th, meaning of the Motelier Design Review Committee, I will let committee members and staff introduce themselves around the table. Hannah Smith. Mike Miller, staff. Stephen Everett. Benjamin Chee. Unless anybody else has anything to offer for the comments beforehand, we'll go to approval of the agenda. Do I hear a motion to approve the agenda? If you're on favor of the agenda, raise your hand. We'll go straight to the first application for 112 Main Street. Applicant Lee Youngman, come on up and have a seat. So I want to put a darling little sign above my big bright purple awning. I thought the purple awning would be enough to tell people where we are, but clearly it's not. I haven't had a sign for several years and the sign is exactly the same color as the awning and mimics the logo that I had in my mind. Just one of those blade signs that comes out from the building. We just have a comment in terms of mounting the steel bracket. The closer clappers on the building that's in a regular shape, they want to get a pattern cut that fits the clappers. I'm going to have wood do the installation. I'm going to mount that between the bracket and the clappers so that you get a flush mount against the clappers without sort of, you mount the steel directly to the clappers for a cause so that the clappers are shaped and dipped. Gotcha. The clappers and the clappers. So that's always a good way to mount them. Okay. I would pass it on to Wood and Wood for the installation. They do what they're doing. So the actual tape. Yeah. I thought that centered above the awning would be kind of the most visually appealing. Either centered above the awning or centered under the window above the awning, I think it's just going to look better than centered above the window under the awning. Because the nail salon is not obviously centered under the window either. Right. But the only question he has is that those clappers are six inches. Count that one, two, three, four, five. That's 30 inches. Yeah. And your sign is 31 and a half. So from the top of the bracket. Right. And that's not even to the top of the bracket. Right. Yeah. Wood and Wood actually come in pieces. No. They just, they work from that same photo. So I imagine that they can shrink it down. I mean, it's just, I don't know why they couldn't. Shrink your yard and ball. Yeah. That's okay. We can do that. We can do that. Would I need to come back if they determine that we need to shrink it down? Okay. That's about where it's showing right now. Yeah. But if you make the bracket any higher than that, limit it to under the window sill. Yeah. That's our drawer. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I could do that. Well, if it was all the way above the main street sign, if we moved it to over here instead, then it probably wouldn't matter if it was flush with the window sill or a little bit higher. If we moved it to over here instead, then it probably wouldn't matter if it was flush with the window sill or a little bit higher. I would still try to keep the top of the bracket at this line at the bottom of the window sill just for continuity and rhythm of the signs. You know, this one is centered right here. Right. If two things that you could do to make the size fit in, number one, again, you could shrink the yard ball or lower. Yeah. Number two, you could move the sign closer for the bracket itself. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's three inches right there. Right. And then yard ball is a good 16, 18 inches tall. Yeah. I mean, I think I'd rather have it under the window than to the side of it. I mean, really what I want is people driving by to see it. That's really, that's all I care about, but I would also like it to look like it had been thought to be placed. And that's closer to your entry door. Sure. Why don't you right here on the side. Right. I'm not sure that people would be confused that it's down the alley, but this clearly states that it's right there. Yeah. Right over the center of the shop. Okay. All right. Well, luckily it's a pretty simple sign. So if they need to shrink it down to get it to fit in the space, I don't have a problem with that as long as... This is also, I think, the best of my knowledge. Yeah. Audrey reviewed this. And they did have the city specs. So when they did this design, unless they've changed this last year, because I actually did this design last year, but then we weren't sure that our business was going to get rid of it. So it looks no larger than my office. The way the logo is, if I had a more horizontal logo, I think it would be okay. Just because it's so compact, it really just looked like the best way to do a sign. Okay? So what we'll do is just make it an adjustment. Yeah. It can't be higher than one full board below the window. Is that what you said? So it flushes with this. So it's basically showing it's slightly higher than your logo there. Yeah. Okay. So it'll come up to the top of the... the bottom of of course the platform below the window. Yes. Okay. It's a custom steel bracket, really, man. I wanted to sell above the sign. I'd send it over to the office if that were where you were. Right. And so if that means I need to shrink the sign, that's okay with you guys. I don't need to come back for that, right? Just so that I'm clear. Okay, good. Thank you. Again, just size it so that it fits into that space. Sure. Program. Okay. Okay. Very good. Oh, the sign itself is nicely designed. Yes. The criteria that apply. Preservation reconstruction of the appropriate stock style of proposed projects in the historic district involves a historic structure, acceptable, harmony of exterior design below the properties of the district, acceptable, compatibility of the post exterior materials, acceptable, compatibility proposed in landscaping not proposed in this application. Prevention of the use of incompatible designs, fillings, color schemes, or exterior materials, acceptable, location and appearance of all utilities, no lighting proposed for the sign, so not applicable. Recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant vistas, including gateway views of the city and state house, acceptable, conformance with city's gate placement and design recommendations, acceptable, compatibility with subject property and adjacent properties, acceptable, so amount obscure, significant architectural details, acceptable, consistency and uniformity of multiple signs not applicable here, elimination not applicable, penits and banners are prohibited, individual letters are fixed and painted or engraved directly on the building or structure or encouraged. The sign and dislocation is acceptable. All in favor of the application. I was just trying to make notes for a minute, so. We've never made a motion on the vote. Okay. All in favor or approve of this. Yeah. Thank you. Again, since we're advisory, Lee, since we're advisory, you would come to the next event of the review board meeting, which is. No, these are actually now going to administrative. Yeah. Okay. So you don't need this. Audra will be in touch. Okay. Thank you. So good. Streamline. Yes. One of the few things that work as planned. Good. The next application is for 110 Northfield Street. 49 properties. Tell us about your application. So I'm Britt Richardson. This apartment has three entrances. I'm proposing to do some renovating on the interior, which would by creating, eliminate one of the entrances and replacing it with a window, I will be facilitating the renovation interior, as well as closing up one of those windows to make a laundry area. So the other change that I'd like to make is changing the rear door on the south side to a sliding glass door instead of this. This is probably put on one of the door, the door that I'd like to allow north side. Don't have any idea. We inherited this when we purchased the property about 10 years ago. I would like to use simulated divided lights for efficiency. This building is not visible from the street. Is the street side of this? Yeah, you can't even, most people don't even know the house. So standing on the side, there are double hung windows above on the second floor, but this would end up being a smaller window. So I, my hope would be to make it look like the small window on the second floor in that exterior picture. So this one has nine divided lights and either a casement or an awning window that looks that, like that, congruous. And if you look at the rest of the building, none of the windows look like this part of the building. They're all two over two instead of six over six. So it's sort of hard for me to choose which style do I match so I'm trying to match the style of the addition. It's a kitchen. It's currently a kitchen and it will continue to be a kitchen. I'm just giving this place to put a washer dryer behind it without being blocking the window. The washer dryer would be on the south side. Right here is where I'd like to put the stove. Oh, okay. So it wouldn't make sense to have a door. May notice on the front it says, replace door and window with a sliding glass door. Yeah, on the south side, there is a door there and a window next to it. And I would like to put a slider in there to replace this door. To replace that door in the two over two window there. Okay, so you'll take this window out and put a slider in here. I'd like to take the window out on the right. That's where Steve's looking at the very last page. So that window on the right-hand side would no longer be there at all. Right. And on the left-hand side, the window in the door, those two would be replaced by a slider. Okay. Can we keep that roof overhang? Would all fit with it? Well, I could either, I could put the door here under the roof overhang or take the roof overhang off and put the door where the door is. Not attached to it. Is the roof, what is the roof line up here? Or is it pitched the other way? It's not a flat roof. It's pitched toward, pitched on both sides, toward north and south sides. Yeah, pitched north and south. So everything's running off the roof and dropping down on the little patio at that door. Yeah, there's no patio. It's just like a cement. I don't know the name for that. Just a walkway into the... It's not even a walkway. There's like a little piece of cement that takes the rain away from the house. It's not used as an entrance. All of the parking is on the north side. It's really just to access the yard. That's the only thing that is on the other side there. There's the yard. Pretty hard to see what's going on here. I assume this is that spot right there. It's correct. There's a tree in front of it that sort of acts like a staircase. There's a shrub and the emergency exit staircase. Okay. So there's a tree in front of it. Okay. So the window that I'm proposing eliminating on the south side of the house is actually not visible. It's behind the shrub and the stairs. You would have to do... If you were to keep this overhang, would the door fit in there with these knee braces, or would you have to post it? The slider could fit here, or I could eliminate this, and the slider could fit here. This makes it south? That's south facing, yes. Bring this white, bring it out a little further and have a nice little couple of patio out there. That's not in budget. Okay. That's okay. Yeah. Just throw it out there. Yeah. That's a beautiful idea. But I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to do that. The virus gauge is not... It's really hard to tell. Like it's not... Looks like... No. Using this little... No, it is not. Where's the access for these stairs going up from this direction? Here? Are these stairs, or what is that little thing? I think it's just... Do each other there, Jason? Do those stairs are from the other side? No, there's... If you... Hard to tell. It looks like... So they come down. They descend. They come down here to there. They descend right here. The foot of the steps is right there. They come. They turn. Going from right to the left, as you're looking at them. That's correct. Yeah. So they come down from this roof. Okay. And then they turn. Over the slider there's an optional change on the south side of the dwelling. The existing overhang thing. Okay. The evaluation criteria, again for this, preservation and reconstruction of the appropriate historic styles, harmony, the exterior design with other properties of the district, acceptable compatibility of proposed materials, compatibility of proposed landscaping, prevention of the use of incompatible designs, buildings, color schemes, or exterior materials, acceptable location and appearance of all utilities. Is there any lighting next to the doorway? Looks like there's a light coming in the state house. Let's say not applicable. All in favor of the application with the optional changes? So we would like... There's an existing, actually there's some language, at least that was used in the agenda. That isn't quite accurate. It regards to a front porch, but actually it's the rear porch. There's an existing rear porch that we'd like to enclose. We'll be doing some kind of foundational work and some structural work to make that viable. But there's an existing roof line there that we'd simply like to enclose and bring into the the envelope of the building to be incorporated into. Right there, Steve. Yes. He's in the middle of this wall right here. And we'd actually like to spread them out. Same height and width. The sill height's going to be basically the same as what's there. That existing window is just above the existing countertop. Oh, okay. We're proposing to put these existing windows just on the other side. So it'd be roughly the same size, but just spread out. Exactly. Correct. Pretty close to the same dimension. Yes. As far as height goes, yes. Use the wood frame integrities or the exterior integrities. Okay. That's a wood frame integrity. Exactly. Okay. And I'm assuming this window which will now be on the inside will be gone or... Exactly. Okay. Yes. You said originally this was a covered... Originally there's an existing kind of where that single small window is. Mm-hmm. That we're proposing to replace with a double hung. That area there... That basically is the south side. South-south. There's a gable end window. It's right near the corner. Yeah, yeah. So this would actually be the south side. Because this valley is running south this way. No, no, no. This is running north that way. Preservation of reconstruction of the appropriate historic style of the proposed projects in the historic district or involved in the historic structure. Acceptable. Harmony of exterior design with other properties in the district. Acceptable. Compatibility of proposed exterior materials with other properties in the district. Acceptable. Compatibility of proposed landscaping and unproposed in this application. Prevention of the use of incompatible designs, buildings, color schemes or exterior materials. Acceptable. Location of appearance of all utilities. Is there any change in lighting for the outside? I'm going to also bring that up too. Yeah, then we would like to put a... We'd like to put a, you know, a carriage light just to the... I'll just jump in really quick to go and give you guys a little bit of a heads up with the parklet. It's going to be a proposal that is going to city council. So this is a DRC recommendation to city council for the parklet because that appears in the street right away. This is not an application that gets a zoning permit or goes to DRV. This will be a recommendation for council. Okay. Space is to create with our very, very short window of good weather and good, you know, outdoor seating weather here in downtown Montpelier to create an additional space for the community that benefits the entire community in downtown Montpelier and draws people into Langdon Street, down Langdon Street, so that our neighbors on Langdon Street and our surrounding, you know, business owners and those that work there can all sort of just have more. And I would say that the goal is to create a little bit more seating while we're open for business. This seating would be for people that are either buying takeout from the takeout window or the space is open to the community whenever we're not open for business. So anybody can come and sit. And right now, a lot of people enjoy our outdoor seating. We're excited about it. We were concerned about making sure that it's safe for those people that are sitting inside of the space and also vehicles that are turning the corner. And the first edit that I wanted to point out to you is that the trees, which what I'm talking to gardener supply about is our river birches, that they are actually in planters outside of the parklet space. In the, it appears that they're inside the seating space. And the reason why I want to point that out to you is that the intention is that if a vehicle hit something, it would hit the tree in the planter first. And not the people sitting in the parklet. I did speak with Carlo and Ben Draper from PositivePie about this. And, but that would be a separate standalone planter. And what we would like to ask is to place them close to where Benchini's trees were placed before, which is more in the triangular space. Just because it gives a buffer of room between the planter and the beginning of the parklet structure, in case something were hit, there's a little bit of space for it to move. And I believe that you did have your structure hit one time. So it's just for safety purposes. And then the reason why we'd like to have one on each side of the parklet is to create some shade. And I think that's also around the issue of safety, just in terms of people that are elderly or dogs, having some space to be that's out of the sun. And another edit that I just wanted to mention to you in terms of the window application, this is a Marvin window. And what we're asking to do is to bring the double-hung windows from the second story down and mimic that. And in the drawing, it appears to be a more modern, you know, looking window similar to like a fast food drive-thru. That's not the case. What we're asking to do would be two windows of the same dimensions in terms of it would be a smaller version of what you see on the second floor. But I just wanted to be clear about that. And then I also wanted to be clear that the rope is intended to make sure that anyone waiting in line stays off of the sidewalk so that that sidewalk is completely clear and open for wheelchairs and traffic to flow. And that's very important. Something green that's fun that, you know, would... Those are what are growing on top. Right. This is a sweet pea that wouldn't be like a thick, you know, wall of green. You could see through it. It's a little bit transparent. So I'll stop talking and we're very excited and happy to answer any questions that you might have. And also we would love suggestions from you in terms of your thoughts and we can answer questions about the structure of the window, whatever. It's an existing window. Oh, okay. And it's just highlighted in that drawing to call attention that this is where it's really much more of a... That window really doesn't fit the downtown as much. The ones that are coming in are much more... Right. So that window looks directly into the kitchen. So this is really exciting for us because people on the sidewalk are going to be able to look directly like a food truck in and see our line cooking. So thanks to my wonderful manager, Maggie, a really great creamy machine so we can do maple creamies right there at the window and all the maple syrup will be coming from my farm and my kids uncle's farm in Calis. So having maple creamies right there and having an existing window that's fixed that can't open, just changing that so that it can open. So the one on the right would be the order window and the one on the left probably chowhound where you can order your food and drinks and pay for it through your cell phone and that way you just come and pick it up. So if you want to order you know barbecue for dinner fried chicken for lunch but you don't have time to eat in and dine in and the intention is just to speed up service for the community for all those people that are really busy. That would be up to you guys. I mean we you know don't really have a peer just like the bike blocks to you know it looks like they would be able to be pulled but whatever you guys tell us to do. So currently on the side of the building there are only two parking spaces. There are three and the reason why we're asking for all three I just want to be really clear about this because I understand that the ordinance allows for three more spaces for this season. Tom from public works told me that the parking space would be structured and then space for that additional tree and I think it's more than just safety it's also aesthetics having a really balanced building because of the amount of traffic that pulls into the new and the back side for deliveries and so what we need it's a balanced aesthetic when we put this in is very important so to the eye you're not really looking at a structure you're looking at the greenery you're looking at the trees you're looking at the historic building and your eyes drawn to the people the activity but I really prefer in terms of design to not draw attention to the actual structure just because I think downtown Montpelier is pretty enough as it is we don't need anything there so we just need that third space just because I also think it's a little unsafe to have one of those spaces be for parking just because I've watched so many people out the window at the restaurant over the last three years try to parallel park and not everyone is very good at it so I think in terms of safety it would be better not to have someone trying to parallel park right next to all this meeting but again we're open to what you guys think it's also very narrow I just want to be clear about that this drawing can sort of give you the illusion that you're getting a lot of space Talia did a great job with it but it's very very narrow so you're literally walking into your table right away and there's not a lot of room in there to walk around so it's kind of like you're mostly it's got to be the space has to be sort of long and along the lines and we're posing using the same beer garden style tables we have in the front just because their community style and we feel like it'll encourage community people to get to know each other and talk and you know make new friends and all that fun stuff so this rendering makes it looks as though it's built out of pallets and then it mentions something about pallets is that the intention that this is all no I'll let Talia speak to that partly with kind of like our tractor seats in the restaurant we want to nod to our concepts to being down home and being America's smallest capital and agricultural center and the idea of pallets with sweet peas growing out of them to me that's the planter that's not the actual structure and the idea is to create something that's fun and whimsical light-hearted and we have an alcohol license and as long as the variance is okay like the positive pilot you know people can have a beer and sit outside and it's just it's country without looking you know it's homey without looking to the trees currently because like I mentioned they're outside the structure and what we're proposing but it would wrap around we would have your garden stakes but painted probably green and then have some string lights that are underneath going from stake to stake and throughout the trees and so just creating almost like that backyard lights to help light it at night and then when we we will most likely try to apply to add some very tasteful and limited lighting directed towards our signs and signs later and what just so that you know what we're thinking about because Talia just sort of added something but it's not and you can see that on the first page on the corner there is an existing structure that comes out of the corner where a blade sign did use to hang so we'll apply for that yes there is and then we'll be applying for a smaller sighted yet but my hope is that we would do something that could be brought out every morning inside because I don't really to the right of that there is that doorway unfilled now it is functional at the present that was the door to the old basement and we shuttered it so either one of those spots they're shuttered right now would be great for you know signage but again I lean towards something that would be hung it wouldn't take up much you said that's a functional doorway yeah you have the door on the right and you have two windows we do have one functional that is another thing these windows along Langdon in that side door provide really good visibility for our staff inside not just to make sure the area stays clean which would be our responsibility but also to keep an eye on that sidewalk really closely and make sure that people aren't blocking the sidewalk and it's just managed better one other quick question are these or are you proposing it just looks like there's a pole down into the sidewalk yeah but it's just a freestanding standard it would be broad end every night yeah okay I like your rendering here are you proposing to build the palace or would I like about this the inside of planters set inside the part because there's a very you know the root system is a wheelchairs can pull right up to the ends of these tables and same thing with like I watched it a lot over the last few years not really badly but like if it's raining you don't want to it's not going to be like the awning we currently have which I kept the old frame and we just added new fabric because I was on a budget and it just dropped straight down this awning more about the importance of tree planting and I watched how many people responded to the picture but so many people gravitated to know why they were doing the existing window trim around the window there will that be retained is there any lighting on the side of this part of the building now that's there is there are a few light bulbs that are very strangely like sticking out of the trim they're very odd they don't function they don't work and other than that the only lighting on that egress that we had to put in we have specific recommendations two separate decisions on this this is just just the part years which is from 1800 and did an incredible job with a historic preservation of my home and if we ever do anything we spend too much money on it and are too careful about the historic intensive direction so the other advantage of building them is that you can make them lighter weight and put together and take apart since you're putting this up and taking I can't tell you guys how many people love the tomatoes that we've grown out front in the restaurant Senator Lakey's wife even had him come and get tomatoes one time and I kids and older folks and so just think a lot of people live in town and some people live in apartments and they just don't have garden space so and also just an appearance I think when you're showing this and there's a uniformity to it closely addresses the criteria as far as Langdon Street being the one you want to make it as classy as possible and I think that looks really sharp we do we work about this building it's not a lot far after I've gone to the structure in the basement and making sure it doesn't fall the construction of the appropriate historic style of the proposed projects and the historic district are being separate I would say was not applicable harmony of exterior design with other properties compatibility proposed exterior materials acceptable compatibility proposed landscaping prevention of use of incompatible designs buildings color schemes exterior materials acceptable location appearance and all you recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant vistas including we will send the recommendation up to Jamie who process and the other recommendation we will get to Audra and I think that's to attend the city council meeting on we would really appreciate it if everybody would either call me email us or stop by the restaurant when you think of anything you know related to this before we start building because let us know your thoughts and thank you very much for your time thank you good luck it was too much for an hour and a half but we got pretty close we will try to speed it up as much as we can I'll go check with you because it should be a fairly simple thing we're not re-litigating the entire proposal it's just for the retaining walls we were unsure this is still kind of in our working with the Christ church to get everything kind of worked out we weren't sure which application to illustrate some of these retaining walls so we didn't talk about it in previous meetings because we were I think in the end the church is going to come to you with a separate application for any improvements on there in the meantime we were asked by the development review board to at least show how this could work so we're showing stuff on the church lamp just to illustrate that this all comes together if that makes sense to you before it acknowledges that so the proposal before you is for retaining walls there are four distinct retaining walls two at the western end of the site one attached to the proposed hotel building the other one attached to the original Capitol Plaza building and then there's a retaining wall down in this corner here that is a result of the micamath project and this rotating wall set up here to separate the Christ in the short-term relief when this project gets built we'll be raising grade floodplain regulations and so we need to be here so we're proposing two different ways of doing it on the west end of the site where these retaining walls are attached to the major structures we're proposing casting place concrete we'll pop through a page of 101.2 what you see on the top of the page relates to the east end of the hotel here that's simply to allow us to there's a change of grade as we ramp up to them well it's you know so it's going to take a little bit of effort to get that out of the contractor but if it needs to be filled the idea is that it's a continuation of the foundation we all know what kind of concrete you normally get around here and it's just for something like that we'll babysit it together in the case of the L-shaped retaining wall that's attached to the original capital plaza building this will be this is using yeah okay I'm sorry I stand corrected and then and then on page 101 you see the retaining wall at the top of the page which is we don't need to do this but because the bike path comes in the bike path is raising gray because they're coming from over the river and so this retaining wall is basically meant to to elevate the balance of the site up to match up with the bike path between the garage and with that wall we've been able to create a little rest area for the bikers and a little mini of the pocket park there if you look at the plan and in coordinating with stand tech and the city everyone is very excited about it and this is this is a block wall yeah that'll be it's a block wall that's again yeah the idea is unit block walls for all but the west wing we actually have a product here we've been sort of working through pricing and coming up with it the idea is that we would do one of the pitched phase and then the steel mountain is the color that we've chosen so far and this will be sort of the what it looks like we wanted to use a modular system especially in here because there's the possibility that if that ever gets rearranged we might have to we could just lift them apart there's nylon pins that hold them together generally so can they batter back some we have very on the larger walls there'll be a slight batter to them on the smaller walls we don't think so so on the 6th wall we think there will be a batter yeah a lot of structural will have to that would be here before we go ahead and install that yeah it's especially important to pay attention to this elevation looking west from the church parking lot that's been an ongoing concern I think it's why we're still talking to you but it shows that there's a basically a maximum exchange of greater 2.5 feet so we've worked hard internally on the grading of the project so that that transition from hotel property to the church has been mitigated down to a maximum of 2.5 and like I said you know as the church plans for their apartment project evolve and stuff that'll be a separate application what we wanted to do was just show what we would do today to make things right with the church as they stand really in the end only involved about 34 yards of fill which was about three truck loads and a little bit of pavement change none of the fill section will come anywhere near the historic structures this has been designed to make sure that an ADA accessible route will remain from State Street to the back door of the church it respects existing accessible ramp to the back of the church hall and it also has well away from any underground storage tanks so it's fairly modest this proposal it's creating a far safer access to that church so we just that's that's the long and short of it here are the materials which you know that surround James Iron who they are questions does everybody understand the extent of the walls it's really not it's a little clear I have my record it's not it's not highlighted that you know that's where it is it starts they're easier to read a 24 by 36 but I wanted everybody to have one essentially there's a bend in the fence right now that goes around the Memorial Garden there's a big kink and that would stockade fence and the retaining wall would start here next to nothing and that has great thumbs up so at this point will that retaining wall affect any of the existing vegetation that's on the church lot now well not the notable things are those big white arborbites those big white cedars that are sort of between the fence and the Capitol Plaza wall starts after all of that so we're building now in an area where existing the parking surface comes right up to that fence in this proposal we're pulling that curb line back onto our property ok so the fence remains and the wall would be on the parking left side of the fence up against the fence or no it'd be on our property on property except for where it needs to turn there's existing fence so they're going to it's currently up to the fence so they're going to pull it back onto their property and open up an area that's known so there'd be a couple of three feet or two and then at the top we'll have some prickly plants so that we don't have to put a rail in there so we can screen the view to the parking lot a little bit one of the other choices for the masonry wall the unit block wall is that it would require less of a toe footing so we will be approaching in that vegetation far less than if it was cast in place or further so the civil drawings show a plan to prevent any water from infiltrating into the memorial garden so there'd be drainage in there that diverts it off to any one direction or the other anyway it will tie into the storm water system that's being built we have a fairly large catch basin right here where all these loads come together it'll just drain into that catch basin which has this was this was selected in part because public works reached out to us we've been coordinating with stamp tech james has been coordinating with them on the bike path part of it and that's what they've already spec'd for the retaining wall that's going to be happening on the city's parking lot it's a unit block wall yeah we're working with them to get that work but it's just concrete it's 10,000 psi it's very very strong has the church given any feedback on any of the proposed retaining walls we can you know we continue to dialogue with the church we are their team and the capital plaza's legal team are working out at mou now mostly the sticking points are around shared costs and some other things but no ongoing conversation between ourselves and the church I just was wondering if you've gotten mainly serious pushback from them about any of the proposed retaining wall and salamation I think it's obviously they hired they hired engineering ventured to conduct an independent review of the proposed changes we modified the work to address the concerns raised by EV so like I said I think the church will be coming in with some kind of application for the portions of this that need to happen on their land the drainage and some things like that but hopefully that'll be a fairly minor at this point we're down to cross guys dotted T's with comments questions suggestions for many one about the proposed retaining walls okay we'll run through the criteria for this preservation reconstruction of the appropriate historic style of the proposed projects acceptable harmony of exterior design with other properties in the district acceptable compatibility proposed exterior materials with other properties in the district acceptable compatibility proposed landscaping with the district acceptable prevention of the use of incompatible designs building colors schemes or exterior materials acceptable location of what was with the original no other changes other than these walls okay recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant VISTAs including gay reviews of the city and state house acceptable all in favor of the application is proposed reach your hand get you to sign that again I'm gonna get Mr. Bouchard to sign that okay I need that back for one minute because there are only two of us here any other discussion to adjourn so moved are there a second all in favor of adjourn raise your hand meeting is adjourned the city of Montpellier Development Review Board meeting for this Monday May 7th 2018 we're starting a little bit late this evening because of scheduling difficulties with the prior board hearing however I'm calling the meeting to order now my name is Dan Richardson I am the vice chair and acting chair this evening Jack Lindley James Lamanda Sarah McShane staff Roger Kranz Kate McCarthy okay and the five members that you see here are the five voting members for this evening the first order of business is the approval of the agenda so who motion second motion by Jack second by James any further discussion none all those in favor please raise your hand have an agenda no comments from the chair this evening other than to note my understanding is that the sole application before us which is the capital plaza project has now fully passed out of the DRC that's correct that we have the full application before us for the first time in this project sister is that correct I'm not sure what you mean by that last comment I just mean that we have there's nothing further that we'll be waiting on we can complete our review tonight we're ready to there's nothing further outstanding that's correct simply all I meant the approval of the minutes from April 16th those present were myself Jack Roger and Kate so we have a form will they be accepted as motion by Jack second second by Kate all those in favor please raise your hand that are eligible both the minutes are approved so first order of business is 100 State Street why don't you why don't you well you were sworn in last meeting is that correct I was yeah okay why don't we do this all over again and then I'll have you introduce yourselves anyone who thinks they may be testifying this evening please raise your right hand do you solemnly swear affirm that the testimony they're about to give for the matter the whole truth and nothing but the truth under the pains and penalties I will so if you'll just introduce yourself for the record and I think probably the best way to start is to have you give us a recap of what's new okay thank you my name is Greg Ravido from Ravido Architects I'm joined here at the table with Fred Bishara of the capital of NASA corporation and in the on-deck circle tonight is James Wayne King our project civil engineer when we last met with this board we were mostly through the approval of the project when it came to light that that we needed to come back in the matter of retaining walls this evening's presentation is all about retaining walls so far as I know the conditional use and other aspects of the application were dealt with at the prior hearing what is new in this this evening in this package that I handed out should mirror the same package that you got from the staff but we have identified four retaining walls that needed approval by the design advisory committee and as you noted earlier they took action just moments ago so that has happened the four retaining walls there are two on the west end of the site one attached to the end of the Hampton Inn building and a second that is sort of enveloping the the work yard dumpster area attached to the Capitol Plaza building and there are two retaining walls shown on the eastern end of the site one that's been of particular public interest which is a transition from the project site to the Christ Church Episcopal and a second retaining wall down in this corner is to be the tallest of the retaining walls and that is predicated by the installation of the bike path which the deck elevation on the bridge kind of sets the geometry for that old bike path across the Haney lot through Capitol Plaza Plaza property over the train tracks sent to the Taylor Street project the retaining walls are illustrated on the next two sheets which are labeled L101.1 and L101.2 and starting at the top of L101.1 you can see that the retaining wall on the top of the page is the one that relates to the bike path location we could build the garage without it but we raised that elevation up to the bike path so that we could create that little pocket part that sits in the back of the garage we spoke of previously and this this will this will integrate with the retaining wall being proposed as part of the bike path project and we have coordinated with STAMTEC on the geometries of those and we have also coordinated with STAMTEC and the city proposed material it's it's a rock faced concrete product three of the retaining walls are modular systems built ones this one on the Haney lot is one of those it's built out of individual units the other two are the one adjacent to the church and then there's the only cast in place concrete wall I was corrected earlier the only cast in place wall is the one attached to the afternoon also on that page L101 you see down at the bottom the elevation looking west from church parking lot that's that's been an important part of our dialogue with the church and I think the important things to point out there is that we've worked on the grading around the entrance to the garage and everything to allow this wall and that is that's a big improvement I think what we were talking about last time so it's knee height now instead of being more substantial and I think that's a big improvement the retaining walls that show on page L101.2 the one on the west end of the hotel that I mentioned is attached to the hotel building that's simply there to facilitate the rising grade from Taylor street up to the front entrance of the hotel that's been elevated because of the flood playgrounds and then the last one that shows here on the bottom of L101.2 is the retaining wall that sort of wraps around where we're planning I believe the dumpsters and there's a few parking lots but it's it's doing a couple of things James you had cut sheets of those materials just pass those out or pass them around and will that steel mountain facade be the same for all the retaining walls? Cast in place just so I understand fully when you say cast in place that's just essentially the cement wall will have the facing on it it'll be poured at the same time we pour the building foundation and it'll have you know a smooth concrete face you'll see the form tight knockouts and you know we'll rub it down and fill any voids and make sure it's uniform in color but it's it's a cast concrete wall and Sarah the DRC approved yeah Mike can probably give an overview I didn't attend the DRC meetings prior to this but hey Mike hey Mike yeah do you have the DRC approval for this or okay great I know we signed it so why they're going through that did the board have any questions about these retaining walls? I guess I do have a question it's mostly out of curiosity on the east retaining wall that you said will align with the bike path retaining wall yes is the bike path retaining wall going to be here on this upper yes edge of the bike path okay so that'll be kind of create those plans as well as plans for any improvement on the church property will be subject to separate applications logically but those have been sort of there's been discussion about making them look the same I think is what you've said oh yeah yeah with the exception of the dumpster retaining wall all of the other retaining walls sit sort of at the edge of the property facing out they do yeah the bike path retaining wall would face the Haney parking lot the only visible portion of the retaining wall adjacent to the church would be visible from the church parking lot side of things you'll see James has planted a series of shrubs along the top of that so that there's no need for a handrail or yeah and I think the big improvement in this plan since we saw you last was the manipulation of those grates to get that great exchange down to the minimum you have the ERC approval was it conditioned in any way it was not conditioned in any way you only know that there were no additional utilities proposed in this I think just the general comments were just the reflection there was a reflection of the fact that Tom McCartle had asked that the materials match the bike path and the applicant had proposed to do that in particular along the Haney lot and then there was some discussion about the the port in place probably one that was talked about more just to make sure that had the appropriate finish on it due to its location and the fact that's the only one that's not matching the block that was proposed although I mean its location there at the back of the hotel puts it in a slightly different visual field than either it's not as if it's going to be next to you'll see it as you drive in from Taylor Street oh no no I mean you'll see it okay so but I guess my point was and I'll turn this into a question does it sit adjacent to any of the other retaining walls no they wouldn't be a side-by-side comparison as if that's what you're leading on right that's where I'm headed with that because I think that might be more of a concern no it'll be tied into the building and we'll make it look as such you know for us it's a prominent entry corridor into the hotel so we're going to want that to look pretty nice and this application doesn't have anything to say about signs but that might not be a bad place for a sign sure as to the utility I do want to know just to put some people easy we weren't proposing any additional lighting or anything as part of this but as prior testimony we've talked about we have made provision for utility connections for the future project next door in our utility planning that's not a change or anything I just I understood the DRC just simply to say that as their specific sort of sphere of review that any additional utility is a very limited review of the retaining walls I think we all understand each other I just know that they're represented as a church here and I just wanted to set them at ease so so given that that's probably the primary thing we're going to be talking about was there anyone in the audience that wished to comment on the retaining walls or any of the issues associated with them if you can come up the microphone and just introduce yourself thank you my name's Nate I'm from the church and I just want to say that we appreciate how much Capital Plaza has worked with us over the course of the last month to address all the church's concerns and the plans that you can see in front of you tonight have on them essentially what we've worked out with with Capital Plaza to address the impacts on the church property Capital Plaza has been great about representing to us if they want to make changes to the status quo on the church property and in light of that the plans that appear to the church has no objections we would like to see the project go forward any other comments okay oh sorry any other comments before I want to go too slowly or too fast through this there were a couple questions that Tom McCartle raised in email yes have you gotten that opportunity to review that you had a long list of comments that I think the only one germane to the nights here was that he wanted us to coordinate the material choices between ourselves and the bike path project it's been my understanding as we go along that the details and the utility connections that Tom mentions in his memo we're not a prerequisite for board approval I think it's our understanding that public works will have another bite at this apple when we get to 100% CDs and so like his comment about the final detailing at the connection of the water line at the street is probably a conversation that will continue as we go through construction documentation right well I mean one of his points is that the design now indicates retaining wall will be constructed above both existing and proposed mains or staff to provide a sketch of the desired interconnection alignment of a stub for future extension so I mean that I understand that that's not really in our purview but I just want to make you aware of that obviously going forward right that's something you're going to have to interact with the department of public works for that but the one above that about the drainage that was certainly a concern I'm going to invite my civil engineer to talk about his stuff yes we had talked to Tom a couple times we walked through some of the details especially the coordination of the retaining walls and the drainage and the water mains I think that most of Tom's comments all the Tom's comments tend to be related to the moving forward on detail design and the project must be coordinated with you know the retaining wall stand-tech for example I think there was a question on as we go forward if the bike path a shared use path goes before the hotel goes there may be some requirements to coordinate on how do you support that bike path with some kind of a temporary wall a temporary fill situation to be sure a bike path that goes forward as opposed to being held up by the project and so that was just something his concern he says that's the type of thing he says we've got Taylor Street going forward we've got the transit center going forward we've got the bike path going forward and the hotel going forward on this small area and it's common it really was just that it was a neutral benefit to be sure they all fit together so we talked about drainage quite a bit he is the church back there in the church there may be some minor adjustments to that as we go into detail design and we deal with the city and there may be some adjustments to the water main because they don't really understand quite what that water main is going on the church property yet so that's quite honestly very normal at this stage things will shift a few feet here and there and work with DPW so there's nothing I don't think there's any real serious concerns about working with the city DPW on that I think the other things that he mentioned was came up with the last conversation on the Green Mountain Power utility pole at Taylor Street and looking at the solution on that which they were looking at so I'm kind of puzzled and I don't think that's something that's been totally resolved as such but there's something that won't be coordinated with DPW or in Green Mountain Power that's a Green Mountain Power project by the way it's predicated by the Taylor Street project and it really isn't really an integral part of the hotel application other than it happens to sit on the hotel property so it's I understand I think at least my specific question really came from the point about the drainage that there's three additional lawn drains that are on the church property yes and invited DRB scrutiny and I think that's proper for you know how that was being managed as far as future maintenance ownership I presume that that will remain church property is there going to be an easement or some type of relationship as to future as far as that drainage system who will maintain that I think there's that is important to have an agreement because it's going to be a church property we talked to Paul Boisler from Engineering Ventures and the placement and the number of these and how it would work best for the church property in the Memorial Garden we did talk about just guess it's something if you're putting utility anything on someone else's property it would be something to work out much to the same as in the water main extension through the church property through the capital plaza property and so that was kind of a limited discussion was limited to say yes we understand but that's a requirement it's in the memorandum of the church to have that and it has to be a memorandum to have a discharge but that's why I wanted to make sure that so it sounds as if there's a conversation going on it's going to as part of being a larger memorandum of Mr. Stern we have a lot of shared interactions to get these two projects built and so yeah there is a memorandum of understanding that's being formed between the parties the extension of the waterline through our property and then across church property is a public works project to replace an aging loop so this waterline across this church property is there to charge or provide backup charge to the waterlines on main street and so it's not really a specific benefit to this project it is part of our global coordination utilities through this corridor and those yard drains were there principally to just keep water from ponding on the memorial garden which you know is a delicate area and needs to be preserved so I guess our expectation is that those those facilities that are constructed on the church property will belong to the church if there's a need for cross easements to connect to the mains then we can those were cited based on the survey that the church didn't put a geographical survey to show that we can get the drainage in that area I think that the church their engineer is very comfortable with these drains with the bike and yeah and I you know part of our job is not to sort out the easement relationship we're not asking you to no no I understand that but just to make clear for fun that I think it's our understanding we just wanted to raise it I wanted to raise it simply so that and I think the testimony that you gave is sufficient which is that you've started to talk with the church with a memorandum of understanding that's for these rights and I think that's what Tom McCartle's main point is is that you know part of your drainage system lies on another property you're going to need you know rights to maintain that those drainage systems both in the installation and then going forward so it sounds like it's part of a larger universal agreement that you're coming together where is correct you're letting water mains go through your property for them for certain easements I mean it sounds as part of this larger construction who knows and that if that won't shift a little bit over time either yeah the community based utilities are definitely something we'll have to work out with all parties involved you know the utility extensions we're talking about on a church property are for the benefit of the church that should be understood the art drains and the parking lot drainage those were and a water line extension those were things done on behalf of the church to make their side of this work the chair Phil Talinger has arrived he added the role but you're going to let me go please keep it so I think at this point are there any questions from the board I have a general question not related to the walls but that I think it comes up now because we're talking about the sort of the big plan and the question about how that works the first thing I'll say is that it's really clear that everyone's working very hard to communicate with adjacent parties with other projects with the city and that's just always really excellent to hear so thank you I know that will continue I'm still very curious though and perhaps also for our listeners at home to know who is the one who's air traffic control on this who is the one person that says okay you get to start digging today this way retaining well goes in now is there someone who who's the puppet master here or is it who maybe that's not the right term air traffic control you're talking are you expanding your scope to consider Taylor street as well I'm thinking yes I'm thinking of the numerous projects that are taking place and I wonder again just for the interest of the public is it whoever gets their permit first can start digging and everyone else coordinates accordingly are quite going to work like that one thing we did in assembling our team or which capital plus did in assembling our team was to make sure that there was some continuity between team members so we have the same landscape architect the same civil engineer for our project as well as Taylor street that was a big consideration in our determination I would pick the right now we've been talking to the same general project and hopefully that will continue in that direction so I think it's I don't think there's one person who can claim to be king of the hill I think the same level of coordination that's gone between ourselves and the church to get to this point with them will happen to a lesser degree with Taylor street which is adjacent but not abutting and the bike path project which I think has the potential so it's mostly between the private parties is what I'm hearing you say as opposed to someone stand on top of the hill saying go, go, go as project architect I'll coordinate the efforts of our team direct a very constructive dialogue with the architects from Taylor street and from and Stan Tech who's handling the bike path part of it I also had to address the city's part of this general so we're going to have very close coordination with the city project manager or the city party line has been assigned to look at all those pieces and he's already doing that now on several projects in that area that might have been the point person answer that I was anticipating nice because it really is you've got that go to the person saying our project we're coming together in these pieces so pretty comfortable with that okay like I said I've heard that the coordination between parties is very good very positive the way you've explained it Greg but I was sort of wondering if there was that one person at the city who was it's going to be tough it's going to be tough there could be some real benefits though there are certain contractors mobilized to the site and if they're stripping concrete forms off of one project and moving next door with them I think that's going to for us we anticipate a November start depending on the tax income and financing portion of this and one of the reasons why we needed to get wrapped up while we've been pushing to conclude this part of it is we think we're going to need all of that four or five months to to get this nailed down cool well thank you for answering that question particularly since it doesn't pertain thank you I think there's a few small items of business that we need to address one is the snow storage apparently there was a bit of a typo in some of the earlier ones putting snow storage in different locations and I just wanted to confirm my understanding is now is the temporary snow storage located to the next door of the hotel yes it was determined to the earlier hearings that we had more parking than is required by your zoning ordinance although we want to need all that parking I think it was determined that we could take some of those out of service so long as we were staying with him so yeah and it's the practice now and it will continue to be a practice that snow will be removed from the site the city doesn't know it would be the plan to continue the other comment that the staff had raised in this main I don't know if you've had an opportunity to review some of the staff comments for this tonight's meeting was about the loading and siding of parking and loading spaces these are under the old zoning bylaws in particular sections 706 and 707 requiring for buildings containing hotels one off street loading space for every 10,000 square feet of gross floor area and by our calculations that would be about five my understanding is there's really only one off-space loading and so haven't necessarily requested a waiver but one might be implied from this too late I would ask you to consider that I think a loading space for every 10,000 square feet of hotel is probably excessive it might be because this is not a full-service hotel in the sense that it doesn't have a restaurant or which would be a big generator or waste or or any significant other spaces that would require a lot of delivery materials right now as people as trucks come in behind the parking lot they park essentially adjacent to where we're showing our trash and recycling and they just unload there we've made sure that they can pull in and turn and get back out but we just don't have the real estate to create a huge loading dock area and it seems to be working now the real heavy traffic is servicing so there's a lot of way to ask for that waiver I would ask for it Do we have any questions? So just so I understand your expectation is that the new women are not going to require the same type of loading as let's say the capital plaza but what type of what type of employee loads are you anticipating I mean you're expecting I mean obviously there are some food and we have a society of minimum self-service breakfast which is cereals and you pour your own waffles and juice that's about it and it's standardized throughout the whole we're told by Hampton exactly what we have to have where it's supposed to be who does it and everything else so but I mean that is that delivered then on a weekly basis depending on usage if it's not if you have the architecture that we're submitted with the application you can see that the amount of food preparation area in here is a room that's about 11 feet wide about 14 feet long most of you probably have bigger kitchens in your homes and yeah you're going to have hot eggs bagels fresh fruit yogurts that kind of stuff generally I mean we've worked with this stuff that kind of stuff is getting picked up in Costco you're not going to see the big shadow cross farms or on the province there's black river produce or anything else they're coming to the site they're going next door to the Capitol Plaza room yeah other than that I mean the big event for loading here will be when the furniture shows up and that will be part of construction operations obviously not permanent like cleaning supplies and then normal other items that go to the running of the hotel that's not just trying to understand is that a tractor trailer it's not a tractor trailer it's a small box truck we get it at the theaters we get it all in locations they drop it off and run in would the plan for that box truck be to park in that loading zone or would it be to park in front of so small they can park right well I'm just just so I understand because it's part of what we have to do and I think the board I haven't heard any statement contrary to we will entertain the idea of waiver but I think it's helpful for us to understand what we're waiving and so if there's the box truck coming with these supplies you know would it be reasonable for us to say that they would park under the the awning and the entrance to unload these type of materials or would there be another location that's now we probably we probably I mean just as a social thing wouldn't want to go through the lobby with that stuff generally speaking we kind of want to go to the east end door or the west end door and come in that way because that's where the food traffic food storage stuff is about the employee base storage type areas and wandering for this hotel will be done next door at the Capitol Plaza so there's some hard traffic going back and forth but yeah I mean when we came up in the work yard I mean I was intended to sort of do a lot of things you know a lot of the stuff the dumpsters and the red racks and stuff out of sight and in a controlled contained area yes I was going to just confirm you said all the won't be any laundry deliveries for laundry it's all going to be done on elsewhere on the site it's going to be done in the Capitol Plaza linens and towels yes so that wouldn't be a loading facility no that's that's going to be a house with a cart going back and forth between the two buildings I think tough road in January well it is thought about a tunnel another variance yeah it was it makes sense to have that equipment busy all the time and not have two sets of it so I think just reviewing the packet I think we've covered all the additional items and understanding that this is end of a very long process because do any board members have any either overarching questions or issues that have previously if you see testimony on you wish to elicit further two questions yes Greg I was wondering if you could provide just a brief overview so the plans were I reviewed the plans last week prior to Thursday and I was just wondering if you could provide a brief overview of the revisions made to the plans that were submitted on Thursday and then just for clarification what improvements are you guys seeking approval for that are offsite okay I think there were some spot elevations that a few minor changes to the retaining walls adjacent to the church that came up Monday we got staff comments from Tom and so we took some of Tom's into account as well and so the changes between Monday and Thursday were not substantial but it was really just I think at one point if you look at the planting bed around the this sort of planting bed that at one point had a wall that was two feet high all around we've let that just turn into a curve now as far as the as far as offsite improvements go I don't know that the board can't approve offsite improvements it's our understanding that what will have to happen ultimately is that Christchurch Episcopal will come in with an application for some of these little detail things on their property which will come at which will there may be things that Capital Plaza is donating or constructing for them but our understanding is that they need to have a separate permit for on their land we've illustrated this in a way that shows you it all comes together but I think the permit for us will stop at the property line that said there are some site utilities that are definitely part of this project do go offsite the most notable which is our storm drainage facility which will more or less parallel the bike path and discharge to the north branch of the Waduski River through the head wall on the bike path bridge so that's an offsite utility that's illustrated in the civil engineering plans that we would want approved and expect that public work says review that and understand it and think it's okay and then of course we'll have some utility improvements in State Street which will be part of the project not strictly on our property but I think most of the drainage from the bike path is part of the bike path project by the city already so I believe that's all approved as part of the city does own that bike path area we don't right I think Sarah's question would work I just want to make sure I fully understand what the permit covers that's why understanding of the law that's been our position right along we've gone beyond that and illustrated what we think is a workable solution for the church so that we can put the church at ease and we can put UEDs that when they are on vacation these two things can't work together so we've essentially provided them a curb cut and a curb stop for water and a plug-in for storm water at the property boundary there will be improvements on church land and whether it's us or engineering ventures or somebody who comes forward and completes that for them they still have some thinking about how they really want this to be finished on their end and we don't want to get in the way of that at the same time but we've done this in a way that that it's shown that it works and the impact on the church if we have to help them get over that we will but I don't see a way for them to approve these improvements on another piece on a private property owner's land without them making an application well and I just want to understand are there any of these I understand the improvements that while you're trying to show that the physical church will be able to do what they can do and obviously it's been an important part of your negotiations with them I think part of what Sarah's question is going towards and I know are there any improvements apart from utilities such as power lines or issues that are relying upon for the way in which your project's going to function that may be located on site we were talking earlier about the storm drains it's different if the storm drains are part of how the church is going to develop its property and ensure that it meets its obligations it's different if these storm drains have been installed or being sought so you can meet your storm drain obligations they're not no let me make that emphatically clear the issue is that we have a storm water regulation that says as we build up this fill section to meet that requirement we're sort of essentially damming off the southwest corner of the church's property so that so that their existing parking in their memorial garden there's an expressed concern that water couldn't impound there and so we're providing method for it to get off of their property but the storm water is generated on church property and the facilities are there to deal with that so yeah, there are there are improvements that we will provide as part of our agreement with them or whatever but you know, I can take that retaining wall and run it straight from State Street back to the garage and not impact the church at all with a driveway or anything it's just that we've had this agreement this working arrangement to maintain access to that from the church in the way that we've illustrated so does that make it plus you know it's in part what you're describing is because you're altering the way in which water flows yeah yes but ultimately once that's all done and those utility improvements are made there'll be church property and the church will maintain them as they maintain the rest of their property yeah would it be fair to say that that whatever changes may be made to the church's property aren't necessarily improvements as much as they are reactions to mitigate the impact of what your development is going to do on your property I think that's fair characterization yeah number one number two do you have a license from the church to enter onto its property to take these to take these mitigating steps it's not fully consummated but we are working towards that goal and I expect a part of that will be that they'll come in with an application under their authorship you know signed by them saying we're making these improvements on church property if it's in some part a reaction to us so be it but there'll be another step in this process for that the actual response to my question about whether there's licenses for taking steps to be taken they should give you permission to enter yeah and maybe Nate could speak to that but I mean we're coordinating on last time I looked at the list there was probably 20 bullet points any further questions from the board? let's board which to proceed Chair I'll recommend that we close the hearing and that we go into deliberative session motion by Jack second second by Roger any further discussion anything further would deliberative session be after this session or are you going to do it at a date for it in the future? we'll do it we'll probably start after this session and then usually what happens when we do a deliberative session is we end up issuing a written permit and especially given the scope and size of this project is going to have a number of different findings written out the only other thing I wanted to mention is I wanted to thank Sarah and Shane for sticking in past her employment date to help us get through this we've enjoyed our working relationship with city staff I think it's been really good and just wanted to make note of that because Sarah has moved down to Stowe but I thank you all for your time and your patience thank you thank you thanks to other participants as well hearing no further discussion all those in favor of taking going to move into deliberative session we close the record thank you very much thank you all for your time appreciate it take care of the other business okay sorry everyone sorry everyone just if you can be a little quiet we have to finish our nominal amount of business before we move into deliberative session this is a note other business looks as if one the four spring streets have been drawn by the applicant and then the 213 Main Street sketch plan was tabled by the applicant did you make a motion to tabled? yeah to continue it to continue it so 213 Main Street has asked to be tabled to our May 21st meeting can we make a motion to table the 213 Main Street application until you mean continue yeah continue okay motion by Roger do I have a second? I'll second second by James all those in favor please raise your right hand and it is continued our next regularly scheduled meeting is for Monday May 21st 2018 and James is this your last meeting with the hotel looks like it's being done yes I think this will be the last application I'm going to be a part of well I personally and I'm sure the board as well thank you very much for the years of service I'm sure I'll see everybody around I'm just doing different things exactly how many years of service do we give you credit for James? oh I don't keep that close to six or seven something like that you're then a bread box yeah we've been in Montpel you're nine so it's been most of that great thank you so I'll take a if I could just make one comment about our chairman who deserves an incredible thank you for the people of Montpelier for shepherding what I consider to be a massive revitalization of downtown and I'll feel in the chair and being here we could have never gotten it done I just applaud his efforts and I think the people of Montpelier when you see them on the street thank you thanks Jack we'll take a they just try to run me over we'll take a motion to adjourn and move into deliberative session so moved motion by James second second by Jack all those in favor of adjourning and moving into deliberative session please raise your hand adjourned