 Good morning. Good afternoon and good evening. On behalf of the U.S. Institute of Peace, it is a pleasure to welcome you all here today for this important and timely conversation on Islam, peace and women's rights. A conversation with U.S. Special Envoy Rina Amiri and prominent Islamic scholars and leaders. My name is Kathleen Kinest and I direct the gender policy and strategy work of the Institute. U.S. Institute of Peace's mission and commitment is to demonstrate that peace is practical and possible even in the most challenging of circumstances. We know though that sustainable peace, that is really more than the end of conflict, is not possible without the protection of women's rights and girls and their participation in peace-building efforts. We also know that engaging religious actors in peace-building efforts is not only important but critical for sustainable peace. Religious ideas, institutions, practices and leaders play an intrinsic role in both peace and conflict dynamics. On the occasion of Women's History Month, we are pleased to welcome Ahmed Mohammed Ahmed Al-Tayyab, who is the current Grand Imam of Al-Hassar, the Grand Imam of Azhar. He recently wrote a publication on women's rights in Islam clarifying no violence against women is allowed in Islam and that women can be judges, politically participate to the fullest level of even becoming the president of a country, all of which is enabled through education for girls and women. He is among the growing voices of Muslim scholars speaking about the importance of women's rights to participate in society in equitable and meaningful ways. We are pleased to share with you a one-minute video of the Grand Imam. Thank you very much. It is now my pleasure to turn this event over to the capable hands of my colleague, Pawasha Kalkar, who is the Interim Director for Religion and Inclusive Societies at USIP, a program that has over 30 years of experience and knowledge and a key part of our peace-building work. Kalkar brings her own terrific background, including working at the Asia Foundation and the Civil Society Unit in the UN Development Program. We welcome you, Pawasha, and the very interesting panel to ensue here. Thank you so much. Thank you, Kathleen. We really appreciate that. And welcome to this USIP event on Islam, peace, and women's rights in Afghanistan. We would like to thank Dr. Rahim Alayni, the Chairman of the Board of Directors for the Doha International Center for Integrated Dialogue, for giving us this opportunity to hold the panel live in one space on the sidelines of the Doha Forum, where world leaders had the opportunity to dialogue on topics about transforming the world for a new post-COVID era, where in almost every panel they touched upon the closing of world schools in Afghanistan more than the current conflict. It was really amazing to see how much solidarity there was with that Afghanistan in the forum. Today on this panel, we have the opportunity to discuss the significance of coordinating with Muslim leaders and scholars. We know that real positive peace cannot happen without justice towards women, and we know that women are key peace builders in society, which we look forward to discussing more about today. Studies have shown that when women are part of the peace process, that peace process is 35 percent more likely to be successful. Studies have also shown that when women are a significant part of the workforce, the country's GDP also increases up to 32 percent. Women's participation in building peace and sustaining peace, contributing to the growth of the economy, increasing health, preventing disease, reducing corruption, all have been studied and proven. Women participating in society from education to decision making in equitable ways contributes to peace. In fact, higher women's participation is an indicator of peace, and in countries with lower women's participation, they have higher levels of violent conflict. So with the Taliban so far reversing their decision to allow high school girls their basic right to education and public school, this affects peace, this affects growth, this affects health, and this affects the prosperity of Afghanistan and is more likely to give rights to conflict. Today on the sidelines of the government forum, we're pleased to be able to gather a seemed panel of scholars and Muslim women leaders here. I'm pleased to introduce our panelists. We have Fatima Bilani here next to me, the Afghan, an Afghan political leader and Islamic scholar. She was a member of the Afghan government senior negotiation team, during the Afghan peace process after 2018, and she was one of our only four, out of all of them, one of the four women who participated in talks with the Taliban in Doha in 2020. Next to her, we have Special Envoy Rina Miri. She is a U.S. Special Envoy for Afghan Women, Girls and Human Rights. Ms. Miri brings over two decades of political expertise, advising and working with governments in various conflict settings. In West and in one of Africa, Middle East, Central and South Asia and Europe. Her area of focus are peace and security with the specialization and inclusion in mediation processes. We will also be joined later on with her Excellency Sheikh Alira Ahmad Bin Saif Al-Fali, who is the permanent representative of the State of Qatar to the United Nations, and Ambassador Deborah Lyon, the U.N. Secretary General's Special Envoy for Afghanistan and the head of UNAMR. So, I first want to turn to you, respected Ms. Delany. We just heard the statement of one of the most learned scholars in Islam, one of the highest authorities in Egypt, stating clearly the importance of women's participation in society. And we also know that women's participation leads to sustainable peace. So, you're an Islamic scholar and you've negotiated with the Taliban for a long time now. So, where have there been progress on engaging in this issue? Where have you seen the progress? And what does this mean, as a way forward, for engaging with the Taliban on women's rights issues? It's, for me, like any other Arab woman or any Muslim woman, it is not just a disappointing moment. It is a shocking moment. It is very good to start with a voice from Al-Azhar. I remember very well when the School of Girls closed many years ago, more than 20 years ago. I turned to Al-Azhar. I had a word from Sheikh Tatawi, then the head of the Al-Azhar University in Mosque, to say something about it. And my question was that if this is a right thing, then why other Muslim countries are not stopped, women going to school, working, or being in politics, or anything. If this should be stopped, and if it is right what they are doing, then why the whole Muslim world is silent? And why you, the figure that we all respect in Al-Azhar, why are you silent? At that time it was era of facts. So, meters and meters of facts came and I was on my way to BBC World Service and I read some of the important messages that he had sent me. And this message was totally in line that we turn now. Peace is something that we start our conversation with. This is the first word that we say when we face each other every morning. When we face each other every morning, the first thing we say is salamu alaykum, peace be upon you. But have we forgotten what we are saying? Are we a parrot just to reveal something which we don't mean it? I mean it. And I expect every single person who uttered this word should mean it. Women being in politics, women being the learned, women being leaders is nothing new for the Muslim women. Today, majority of Hadiths of the Prophet, peace be upon him, we learned from Aisha the first leader of a political or military after the death of the Prophet, peace be upon him, was Aisha. We put aside regardless that we agree on this political side of it. We agree or disagree. But the fact is that person who has transmitted all of these Hadiths to us from our religious Prophet, the Prophet, peace be upon him, she was a warrior. She was in the German war. So she was a political leader as well as a military leader. Do you think that she didn't know what was right and what was wrong when she was doing it? A person whom we make our laws and regulations on the word that she has given to us? Was it Hadithia, a person that our Prophet, peace be upon him, was working for her? Was it the biggest decisions made by him, was taken from, consulted and negotiated with his wife before the last congregation that he had, the Prophet, peace be upon him, had told the Muslim world something that was conveyed to him by his wife? Have we forgotten that some of the wars was financed by the tax that his wife was a commander, was a shoemaker during the war, made money and gave it for the political and military causes? We forgot all this. I will refuse and I want every woman in Afghanistan to refuse to stop are my religious obligations being performed. I simply refuse that traditions, wrong traditions in my country take the place of my religion. I refuse that my religion cannot conquer bad, I mean services that has been in the hand of people who were against women that continue. I refuse to be conquered by traditions and I will feel that my religion failed in front of tradition. I refuse. I repeat again, education is not just my right. This is my duty. If it wasn't important, it wouldn't have been the first order of God. The first order of God shows the importance of that act, which is read as simple as that. Read, you Muslim, read, you Muslim learn the art of writing. There is no mass and it's in this. This is simply yes or no. Is it or isn't it? I say it is because I saw it in my holy book, in my holy book. Thank you. Thank you so much, so in terms of when you were interacting with the people of our people, there were kinds of messages that you were giving them. How did they receive these kinds of messages? Frankly, we never even had this question of school being closed for women. This was taken for granted. The question was that co-education or not co-education, the quality of education that we were talking about, but that a girl would go to school, it was taken for granted. It was never an issue. This is a shocking moment, not just for me, not just for women. This is a shocking moment for whom ever we used that the first order of God was. So this was never ever discussed. I mean, it was not an issue to discuss because it was taken for granted that we would go to school. What about other issues like women trying to work, women's political participation? What are some of the things that you've seen in terms of your conversations from a religious perspective with the title on how, what things have you been able to discuss with them and how they interacted with them? First of all, the formal negotiation would never, never did go to a point that we would talk the do's and don'ts, which usually comes in a constitution. It never did go that far. But what happened that usually when they were talking was not so much working or not working, but the environment of the work has to be a respectable and Islamic environment. And or if we go to university, what should we wear? I'm not that kind of thing. It never came to that that women should be allowed or not allowed to work. Work is a normal thing. If the wife of the Prophet, we see upon him was a cobbler and she was making shoes, then working is fine. If the wife of the Prophet was a merchant, I renounced the merchants that men were working for him. This is taken for granted that this is fine. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. So, Special Employee, I'm going to turn to you. You've really done a lot of outreach to the Muslim world on these issues. It's made, you've made a priority work to do this. You've traveled to Jeddah. You spoke to the OIC. You've traveled to Indonesia. You've traveled, you've talked to the Khazmir government here. You've also just recently come back from Turkey. What are you hoping to engage, achieve through these engagements? Thank you very much. I haven't traveled to Indonesia yet. It's not my agenda. But you know, I also said no to you that I've been in my position now for two months. And I started out by saying that my priority is not to speak on behalf of Afghan women, not to set the agenda for them, but to turn to them and ask them what they wanted my priority to be. I'm one of the points that I heard from many Afghan women, thank you Dr. Gerani, is make sure that you that you don't let our religion be weaponized against us. They have taken away our rights. They cannot take our religion and use it against us. That's what the Taliban are doing. They said you need to bring our sisters, our Muslim sisters to mobilize as a force around us when we get hurt by our religion. Every woman in this world gets hurt. When the Taliban say that taking away, stripping women's of their rights is based on Sharia, it is not only hurting us, it is hurting Islam all over the world. And one of your responsibilities and one of your priorities is to do the South Legion towards the Muslim majority countries. You are a U.S. representative. You have to use whatever leverage there is to support the rights of Afghan women. But on a social level, on a cultural level, on a religious level, that responsibility lays with also the Islamic world to stand up and say, this is not right. This is that Islam is a religion and many have said this and when I went to, you know, when I was, when I see there was such a priority saying, you know, Islam was the first religion that granted rights to women. When other religions, it wasn't even on the table. It was the prophet that one of his first acts, the prophet, that outlawed and fantasized of girls, which was prevalent. And the fact that, you know, that there was such progressives and that was the foundation of Islam. Now for those that use politics to strip women's rights away and use religion is to mask their politics. There's just this crime on so many levels, but it's stripping people of the faith that that they have such great pride in. And I've taken that message. I've taken it and I've taken that message to say to the Islamic world that, you know, it is the responsibility of the Islamic world to take the key, to take the issue of the Taliban and to say, look at us, we are Islamic and look at what we are doing to, you know, and every one of these countries, I should know it has its own challenges and problems. But they, there's a spectrum and no one falls on the spectrum where the Taliban stand on the issue on taking away women's rights and the way that they leave prisoners in their own house and using religion as that basis. And when I've taken that message to the OIC, it was a race. And they made a commitment to continue engaging on this issue. If I wanted that national effect, instead, if you can, if you have a delegation to Al-Qaeda, include women in your leadership, engage women and engage religious women, engage civil society, make sure that the Taliban sit with the religious community, then see that women are also Islamic scholars. I took this message to, you know, and I had great engagement with Qatar and have received a great deal of support. Hopefully, that ambassador will be able to speak to that when she comes. And then I just came back from Turkey, where the message I also think is a very pragmatic message. You know, the issue of women's rights is not something that it has not been on island dance and to itself. It's integral to stabilizing women's rights. And if women are struck over the right to education, the right to work, families will leave. It will cause a massive migration, which will first touch the borders, the bordering countries, and it will have an impact on many countries in the region that are Muslim majority countries. It will create instability and that instability will once again become a breeding ground for greater radicalism. So women's rights is not just something that can be put aside and then we can talk to the Taliban about politics and about, you know, humanitarian first. It's integral. And as you have said, and I keep on repeating this to everyone, that if you can't put women's rights in a political situation and humanitarian situation and to separate silos, you have to address all of these. We have to do many different difficult things at the same time. And there's a leadership role in the Muslim world, not in this regard. It's vital. So if I can just add to that, you know, we have several examples of Muslim women public service around the world. We have women ambassadors, like Michelle, here she is. Thank you for joining us. I'm so glad that you're here. We have heads of state as well, such as a senior work resident, and I believe me. I wonder if you could tell us a little bit more about how you see their role and their messages and where is the answer point? You know, what is the significance of their messages and their roles? You can make that to in solidarity with Afghanistan, but also to them. I think it's really important to reflect the diversity and the diversity of one of the Muslim world, the Muslim majority countries, as well as places where Islam is practiced, and just the consistency of the messaging, the consistency in terms of the, regardless of where, which part of the world you're looking at, where Islam is placed in, whether it's the majority or minority religion. Nonetheless, nothing, there's nothing that aligns with the view that the Taliban are putting forth. You know, and some people would say, well, it's Islam according to the culture of Afghanistan. I say, no, it has nothing to do. This is Taliban culture. It's not the way that Islam was ever practiced in Afghanistan. And it's a radicalized Taliban culture that is being projected as Islam and Afghanistan. And we need the Muslim world and all of us diversity to make that case, to echo that message. And for the Taliban to hear, to hear that, you know, to the West, they constantly say, well, you don't understand our religion. You don't understand our culture. And it's really important for, you know, the West sometimes has a harder time responding to that. This is where the Muslim world takes that issue up with them. And there's a lot that we need to do. There's a call to action right now. If this is not a call to action, what the Taliban are doing, then I don't know what we're waiting for. And that call to action is every country in the Muslim world should be saying, no, this is not in our hate, not in our faith. And Muslim women leaders, you know, we see there are so many wonderful messages from women foreign ministers, from the Western world, women civil society actors. We need that even more from the Muslim world. We need women leaders, women civil society to come together as a coalition of non-women's rights are strictly, it will be a precedent for radicals to do that in other societies. Thank you so much. Let me now turn to your SONC Ambassador. Special honor for you mainly just that she has engaged, yes, she has engaged with your respective government planning to engage opposition. Thank you so much again for the opportunity to be together with you. We are, of course, I mean, it's well known for everyone. Qatar has played an important role in the last couple of months in terms of trying to ease the suffering of the brothers and sisters in Afghanistan since the situation occurred last summer. There are so many dimensions for the situation, the humanitarian dimension, the rise dimension, economic dimension. I know that, of course, now we are more focused on how to deal with the human rights dimension of the situation in Afghanistan. We've recently actually spoken earlier, we have wanted, we've all recently dealt with the unfortunate decision by the gift of the government. Today we tell them to suspend the acts for the education for wealth and what I mean. Qatar has been very walking about this unlawful decision and unlawful decision. We've clearly said that this is unacceptable. This is an unlawful decision, has nothing to do with Islam, has nothing to do with the teaching of Islam. I mean, Qatar is an example for a country that women are flourishing because of education, education factors of development, right to walk. We said, for example, of course, in the wider region, also women enjoy, you know, the rights for the, and especially when it comes to education. And it's a basic point, even in Islam. I mean, I'm sure we don't have a lot of time to do, but the Quran has many verses that discusses the sensibility of education for both men and women. So I think that's for us, it's a basic, the baseline for our conversations for the time being. I have a pleasure in studying to join, to accompany the Foreign Minister and many meetings, and of course, this should be done in many meetings, especially with the UN agencies as well, I did very well. Exactly, I've come to myself, I've come to Russia, and you know, my Foreign Minister at that meeting was very fair. He said, that's for us, when it came to education, it's a must, and we will definitely raise the ball up in our conversations with the Taliban and the upcoming meetings that it might be facilitating and conveniently under. But again, I think going back to one of my dear friends, so we need to do it, we need to do it as was in the past. I see women in the Arab world, and the most should be women, and I think we need to really invest more time doing that. So basically, we're working closely with Turkey to issue a joint statement, of course, I'm showing you where the Security Council issued a joint statement two days ago, strong, very, very, to the point when it comes to this wonderful decision by Canada, we are planning to do something similar. The idea is to start building up a process where we bring together Muslim countries and come up with a joint statement, and then we, you know, engage with the Taliban based on the statement, and of course, work at the OIC level, the military level, and the summit level. I think there was a sense of urgency that we need to do it now. We have to, and I think this is what we plan to do, is to focus on raising the bar in our conversation with them immediately, and this is something the Foreign Minister has tried to do. He plans to cover it soon, and that would be one of the key discussion points that he would raise during that visit, and we'll take it from there, I think. What do we need now? Again, what I am saying, it's our responsibility, it's our responsibility, as Muslim countries, to raise the bar and to, towards the bar, to find out what the position is. Thank you so much. I have one more question for you. I heard also that the government was trying to see for the education aspect, and that is something that is a priority, setting up an education center, we work on education, girls' education as well. Can you speak a little bit more to the vision and the plans that you have to have in terms of education? So, yes, as our case, we have started the conversation for the guitar department of development, and also our education institutions, including the guitar institution and education department, which is chair of the department of education. So, basically, there are a lot of initiatives to invest in education. So, we are working at different levels, by the end of the year. So, I mean, we want to use our leverage. I think it's important to use every country that has leverage, like us, Turkey, and Indonesia, like Pakistan, we need to use our leverage to make sure, even in our humanitarian assistance, we need to prioritize those education, and this is socially what we are doing now, for the partnership with the government, and for the development of education. Thank you so much, and I'm happy to be here, but I don't have any plans. But if you'd like to talk a little bit about those things, yes. Welcome to the masterminds. Thank you so much for joining us. It's wonderful to be here, like I tell you, but first of all, it's wonderful to be here for the company and for the subject, and it's wonderful to be here because I finally found the place. And it's my pleasure to say that. I have a very mature don't mind. Everyone must try to do it. Thank you so much. So, my first interview and mastermind is that next week, there's a tribe meeting in Thailand. This week, or this week, I'm ready. Okay, I'll have the time. And sooner. And there's a role for the international community to play for regional organizations. I wonder if you could speak to that, but specifically to the role of the UN as a competing part of bringing all of this together. What's your idea for that and your ambition for that? And how do you think some countries have been into that in terms of engaging on women's rights, I guess? Okay, well, let me just start off with what you were saying about this week in China. Really important. I mean, in addition to the all important humanitarian pledging conference that is happening on the 31st, which is hosted by, I think, the UK, Germany, and I think it's online, so of course it's kind of universal around the world. That will be a very important thing on the 31st, but equally on the 30th in China, the border country foreign ministers will be meeting on the 30th in China, along with the Russian foreign minister for the third meeting of this group, which formed last fall, a very important all of the neighboring countries, border countries, foreign minister, and now Russia's now a part of that group. That will be meeting on the 30th and then on the 31st, it will be joined, I believe, by Qatar and as well by Indonesia. And I told that also there will be a Taliban delegation, delegation going to meet with them. That set of meetings, in addition to, I believe, possibly a Troika, which just to remind everyone, is Russia, China, US, and as well the extended Troika Pakistan. And I'm not sure if others may join that group, but at least those four will also be meeting during those two days. So keep your eyes on the pledging conference and keep your eyes on those two days in China, because the messages that will be coming out of those two days in terms of the concerns, the support, the issues that the various countries will be identifying in the statements, I think will be incredibly important for all of us here, particularly in light of the recent decision on girls' education, because of course these are border countries that are very concerned about the stability and have them stand as they should and also in many cases a number of very important Muslim countries, but also want to see reflected the appropriate recognition of how magnificent Islam is as a as a religion of knowledge of wisdom of understanding. And that is reflected in so many of these important decisions and perhaps most importantly, in the area of human rights and knowledge, which the Quran speaks so well about. So I think we've got very important meetings, very important few days ahead of us. So what is the what is the role of the different countries? All right, let's begin with the neighboring countries as I have just said. We have heard many times and my good friend Fatima would reflect on this as well. We have heard from the neighborhood from the region that no matter what happens with the international donors of the native countries that have been in Afghanistan these last many years, the neighborhood stays. They continue their intense relationship with Afghanistan as neighbors and frankly, next to family as we all know, neighbors are very important. So I would say that the regional countries have a huge role to play here. And I think what we are all expecting is that these neighboring countries will stand up and engage even more in supporting the Afghan people to move forward in a peaceful and stable way. That's why these needs coming up are so important. And that's why we as you now on the ground in Afghanistan day after day, we are working very closely with the regional country ambassadors who are of course still there. And we meet with them regularly on all of these various issues. And so I'm I particularly pleased to see the regional countries engage even more. I'm very impressed with the leadership that's come from Qatar and from other countries. We're seeing the UAE very involved of course to the presidency of the UN Security Council and they've been very active this past month since we have gone through a number of hearings on Afghanistan and particularly the Inama, Madi, we know Turkey as well of course and the work that is doing along with Qatar on trying to work through the situation to the all important airport. We're learning that every country needs a strong banking sector and they need a good international airport. These are critical infrastructure. So I think it's really impressive to see how a number of the regional countries have moved in to try to support those important elements and we're working very closely with them. And then let me go to the donors, the international, I call them nearby countries, but most particularly the donors. I think the donors and keep in mind that many of the regional countries are also considered to be donors, but many others are obviously active donors both in terms of financial contributions, but also in terms of materials, health products, etc. that have been sent and also working with Afghanistan and scholarship programs, it's on the other areas. But in terms of the donors, I think it's overall a very interesting time because we're going to go into the humanitarian conference that is a non-conditioned support. So humanitarian cannot be conditioned. What happens at that pledging conference on the 31st has nothing to do with, we'll give you money if you do this or if you don't. But then the question becomes, no one wants Afghanistan to remain as a humanitarian case year after year, winter after winter. So we have to move very quickly after the 31st on the humanitarian funding, which I hope will be substantial, we have to move very quickly to a deep discussion about basic human needs and how we provide an additional funding that needs to be there to support the Afghan people so that they can help themselves. Let's not find ourselves next winter giving food to a desperate farmer's family. Let's now in April, after Ramadan maybe, but let's soon give that farmer the seeds that he or she needs to plant in the grounds so that they can produce the food, the wheat, the flour for the village around there. There are many, many aspects to basic human needs that has to be deeply considered. I think that's going to be a tough conversation though because some of the decisions, most particularly the one related to girls' education, how can you ask politicians anywhere in the world to provide funding from their taxpayers to support education when in fact not all of your population is getting access to education? Very challenging. So I think we've got a tough period ahead of us to work through many of these issues with the Taliban de facto authorities, with our donors, and unanimous role is to make somehow all of this work because what is the bottom line? The bottom line is very simple. We do not leave the Afghan people behind, and we most certainly do not leave Afghan young girls fighting their education behind. Thanks so much, Ambassador. And we saw in social media some of the most heartbreaking images of the girls crying at the doors of the gates of their schools. They were so disappointed and not being able to go. And also, can I just add, the incredible picture of the father consoling West Germany. Exactly. Exactly. So with that in mind in terms of what's happening in Afghanistan, if you're on the ground day to day, and you hear those voices on the ground, you're also on the ground interacting with the de facto authority there, and you have the donors, what type of convenient spaces do you oversee? Can you give us some interesting insight into how that happens? So maybe I was a little late in running here tonight because I just had a human space. I was just with all of the ambassadors here this afternoon who are based now in Doha until hopefully one day we seek their return to Kabul. So I was meeting with all of the ambassadors who are here, about 20, 25 countries, talking about how challenging the environment is now, but how we have to work our way through that, how we have to make our way through that. And we actually developed a list of about 15 pieces of work that needs to be done to move us forward. As soon as I go back to Afghanistan, and I will be meeting with the regional ambassadors on the ground, as I said earlier, we meet with them on a weekly basis on a regular basis to talk about the different issues that the country might be facing, how we're working together, how we're resolving some of the issues on banking and so forth. So we have a regular meeting with all of the regional ambassadors in person. I don't allow online, if we're all in Kabul, we come and meet together face to face. But then as well, we have on a weekly basis, an online meeting with all of the other ambassadors who are based either in the capital or here in Doha. We also organize a number of meetings. For instance, there's a meeting coming up with all of the special representatives or special envoys. That's actually being organized by Europeans that will happen the first week of April. So we'll have everybody together for that. We have a weekly meeting with all of the major donors that are development and humanitarian people sitting on now. So many things are done, of course, online. But we bring all of those people together. The World Bank, the Asia Development Bank, and I will speak with them together along with the donors to talk again about how we move forward from humanitarian to the all important development. And I'm hoping that we will have a very serious retreat in the next couple of months to work through how we move forward on the kind of pathway or roadmap that would be important for dealing with these issues that have come up recently with regard to education, with regard to inclusivity, with regard to counter products. There's some passage there, passage, all of that with the donors. And also, I think convening as well with the Italian de facto avoiding on how they get respond to these, let me also say that it's not just a matter of convening people outside of Afghanistan. For us, it's even more important to convene the way that I can. And so we do a lot with the women's groups. We do a lot with women business owners who are still very active. We're doing a lot with the business sector overall. We are also working with the U.S. and the Central Bank in Afghanistan. I'm trying to address the many issues that the banking sector are facing. We can be meetings with the Afghanistan Bankers Association, of course, with media, with media associations. So, yes, I think that's our most important role, is bringing people together. But again, I go back to my objective, the objective of continuing to work through these issues with the Afghan people. And right now, that means also working with the governments. Thank you so much. And that's my, in terms of clarifying that, you know, it is the people inside of Afghanistan, those voices that you bring forward in a lot of these meetings, including them in these conversations. Well, I just want to add to that again, we almost remember this phrase, domestic legitimacy, right? It is important whatever the government is, whatever the administration is, when they first inform us of legitimacy from their home first, then that house is international. Yes, I wanted to bring one more voice then, you know, but I am really heartened that we have fantastic women's leadership that has been consistent speaking in support of Afghan women's rights. One great ally is here, well before the issue of that, you know, the really devastating decision of the Taliban rescinding their commitment. Another incredible ally is the foreign minister of Indonesia and foreign minister right now. She very much wanted to be here, could not, but has sent a message that I'd like us to send a message. Thank you so much. Colleagues, distinguished participants, greetings from Jakarta, Indonesia. I'm very proud to speak today as the first female foreign minister from a country with the world's largest Muslim population. Indonesia is a living proof that Islam and women empowerment can walk hand in hand. And this is something I would like to share with the rest of the world, including with our brothers and sisters in Afghanistan. After all, Indonesia and Afghanistan share similarities. Just like Afghanistan, Indonesia is also a very heterogeneous country. In Indonesia, we strive for unity, but we also embrace diversity. Democracy, tolerance and respect for human rights help us to use our diversity as a source of strength to build our country upon. Of course, we are not here to lecture anybody. That is not the tradition of Indonesia. But we are fully committed to supporting Afghan-owned, Afghan-led pathway towards peace, stability and prosperity. But there is one issue where Indonesia can contribute. That is women's empowerment. We firmly believe Afghan women can be powerful agents of changes and will drive progress toward a new Afghanistan. The Taliban has promised to respect women's rights and we want to help so that this promise can be delivered. We stand ready to provide scholarship for Afghan women, explore potential collaboration to empower Afghan women and facilitate dialogue, including with the Afghan ulemas on women's rights and their potential contribution to the societies. Colleagues, Afghan women are indispensable assets for the present and future of their country. Without their involvement, there can be no lasting peace in Afghanistan. I am hopeful this event may better shape perspective regarding interligages between Islam, women and peace. I thank you very much. What will the international community's response be if the Taliban continue with their current production and save lives? This is the question. It's just in general, so I'm wondering if maybe for the red line question, Jan, would you like to start us off with the red lines community? I think they're asking what should be the red lines community. I don't know if it was communicated or not, but in my opinion, for me, the red line is when wrong traditions is confused with Islam and it is implemented on women as men or women in Afghanistan or any other Muslim country. This has always been something for me was really the red line. And if you have your tradition, say this is a tradition and don't put the name of a scar on it because my religion is not like that. This is a religion of peace. This is a religion of knowledge. This is a religion with world class and it is openly says that we don't want to impose anything on people. We have to accept it themselves. So this is for me, this is the red line. So the second part of the question is what's the international community's response and will there be any kind of response? So let me turn to Ambassador Bani or Ambassador Bani. No, absolutely. I think we're seeing at the time of responses after the decision to suspend the aspect of education problems. So you see that the time has changed. I mean, I don't know if you read between the lines in our statement. We were very much, we were very clear that this is something we do not accept. We will not tolerate. We will deal with it. And we will work on other aspects of such a decision. So I think this time will continue. We'll go on to that in the same direction. So and this is what we will do for now. I've seen this yesterday. I know probably for sure we will not. Why? Because we will come to it that knows this time as well. We know it's not very well, you're conservative because we're also conservative as well. And we know that we follow the teachings of Islam. The teachings of Islam as my sister said. This is something that is unusual to say. There are different categories, different age groups around to go to schools. This is something unusual, unheard of in Islam. So I think from now on, I think this is the time you will hear from the official and from member states and member states from within the OIC. But again, we need to do more. I think we need to just try to organize ourselves in a way to have results, see results and see how we can reverse such decisions or similar decisions in the future. I want to add something to it here because when I want to clarify to those that think that, I'll tell you that there has been just a profound shock. Many people say we're wiring shocks. But we have had conversations with the Taliban for four months. We have talked about each one of these details in terms of logistics. Taliban usually do not say that, you know, give us these concrete yes. On this one, they did. And they also said, this is an Islam principle. So they took away the Islamic arguments away from themselves. This is the reason that we actually had some level, we didn't, we thought there would be problems. And no one expected them to just put you in the name on their commitment. But I just want to note that this is just not posturing on the part of the international community. We say that unacceptable. There are consequences. There are things that the Taliban want. And we are at an inflection point. This is an inflection point. The Taliban remaining on girls education, it could really be that turning point where the international community takes a very solid step back from some, you know, there will be engagement because engagement is necessary. The Taliban is the reality on the ground, but they want a number of steps that would enable them to be seen as a more legitimate factor to be able to get some support in terms of capacity and otherwise. And all of that, they have a decision to make. But beyond our engagement, our support, they need to look at and send to the carrots and their sticks are inside the country, not to the outside. They will lose the trust of the people, whatever trust remains. They will lose any level of confidence with the population that just been traumatized. But they have said we are willing to work with you, but we need our basic and fundamental advice. If they remain on that with the population, they will lose that window for the population to work with them for this piece that they claim that they are brought up by some. And it will be a real squandered opportunity and that's what they should bear in mind much more than the role of the international community. So I guess here I want to make a distinction between red lines of the Afghan people themselves. These are our red lines. This is what we want, and what the red lines are actually going to be. That's why I first started talking about it now, because one of the red lines of the Afghan women have communicated inside of Afghanistan in terms of these are our red lines. I remember just a couple of years ago, there was this huge project for our red lines. This is what women have in mind in terms of our rights inside of Afghanistan. And so we have both, like you were saying, the internal pressure and the internal red lines and the external red lines of the international community. So thank you for the distinction, Beverly. But can I turn to your last of the lines? I think what I would just add to what Ms. Morgan said is that we would rather talk about what are the obstacles, be they policy, be they philosophical, be they practical, and how to work through those obstacles. But I think if you want to talk about red lines pretty quickly in education, you would have to be ready out there. And I think that we have said this many times and will continue to say men's rights are non-negotiable. Women's rights are non-negotiable. The rights of a citizen are not negotiated away. And also that applies to, again, coming back to domestic legitimacy, that also applies to ethnic rights, minority rights. And so all of this has everything to do with representative government, with people's voices being heard, being able to see themselves in their governments, whatever ethnicity they might be, whatever gender they might be, that they can see that the governance that is there to guide their people reflects that. This is all about stability. This is all about the country being able to move forward. And so I would just highlight very quickly, again, because I like to talk about possibility and potential. I'm very happy to get tough on red lines when we have to. But all we have to do is look at the research now, which is so self-evident. So 174 countries were obsessed by a large group of university researchers from around the world, 174 countries. And they were trying to identify what is the key indicator for stability in a country. And what they concluded was it was not the prosperity of your economy. It is not even your ethno-cultural profile. And, surprise, surprise, it is not even the form of government that you might have. The single greatest indicator of the stability of a country was how that country, in 174 cases, treated and engaged women in their society. Having women be fully able to contribute to their society brings about greater stability. And we all know that ethnic, as well, and the warranty representation in forms of government also brings about stability, which is why the regional countries in particular have spoken out so much about infusivity, because they understand that if you don't have it, you undermine your stability, and that could cause an impact not just to the extent of the numbers. So we have just conversations with the de facto authorities. It's going to take more discussing. It's going to take bringing the Afghan women most certainly into the ring with us, which is what the Afghan women we've been meeting with regularly are now saying, I look forward to those discussions. I think we've hit a very difficult spot in the moment with this decision, which I hope is a temporary decision on girls' education. We have to now work with everyone to make our way to a better place. So we're at the end of our time and our panel. Thank you for everything. But I wanted to jump to each one of you to make a final statement. I know that some of you have calls to action that you'd like to communicate, and we heard also the importance of engaging Muslim also. I was wondering if you would like to make a final statement? Really, for me, the final statement is that as Deborah said, I hope it's a temporary thing, and I hope that very soon our girls will go to school as well as our boys, really. Thank you. I want to work with that line as well. But they've said it's a technical setback. Let's work on this. There's been too much time wasted. Girls need to go back to school. Boys need to go back to school. We need to work towards getting to some semblance of normality in Afghanistan. That is absolutely key. That is what will really bring about that, and then to the foundation of Afghanistan. And I would just make a appeal for everyone who's listening, please let your governments know. Particularly those with governments are going to be in China. Let your governments know. Speak up, tweet about this, that they have to support Afghan women and just fundamental rights for both men and women in Afghanistan. And women, I would just note, they are the entry points for inclusivity. If you bring women in, there is going to be broader negativity, and that is the lynchment for the work of peace in Afghanistan. Thank you. Well, I completely agree with both my sisters. I think they've received those points. They've got the message that this is not acceptable. And it's unacceptable, I assume, that I'm including those who are engaging in that want to get their business done first. So I think what we need to do now, again, hopefully is temporarily, and they will back to their senses. And we need to focus now on how to apply those applications and how to engage with them on a daily basis. But this has to happen. Well, I'm just going to add to the course here, but also point out that Afghan women represent all women. And access to education is the universal right. Afghan young women deserve to have all those educational opportunities that we've never necessarily contributed to their country. I would, my message to people would be, please, you know, spend a little time if you need to, being shocked, spend a little time being disappointed, spend a little time being dismayed, maybe shed a few tears as a young girl who's on the way to school and has turned back. But we all need to come together as we have tonight. And most certainly we need to let the various governments of the world know that they need to stand up on this, not just for Afghan women, but for women all over the world on this issue. Because this is about all of us. And this is about all of them as responsible governments. And most particularly the group who gather in China on Thursday, Wednesday or Thursday, I think it is, really must demonstrate that Afghan women will be supported as will all Afghans. And that complete conference I do hope that donors will equally connect to a huge humanitarian support. And then we will move on from there. Thank you so much, Ambassador Lanz. That was a wonderful way to end this. I just wanted to thank you all for being on this panel, for taking us through how important education and nurse education is not only a right, it is a duty, that centrality of education is so important in building peace in our countries and around the world, that it's not just looking at one lens on the political lens, pressure or the religious lens, but it's religious, economic, and political, it's really important. There's not much on this issue. And that we all need to take a step to engage our governments, no matter what stage we are, no matter what level we're in, that we can all do something by engaging them. So thank you so much for bringing us to the end of this. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Bye, so much.