 podcasters roundtable round 117 what the heck is up with you Apple? What the heck is up with Apple? That's what we titled it, but let's meet the round table is of course. It's just it's just the round table It's the core tonight the core Daniel. Welcome back Thank you. It's good to be in the starting lineup for once Starting lineup you're you're defect those starting lineup or do you mean you mean starting from the moment we hit? Broadcast yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm you're from the beginning. Yeah Well, thanks to my tardiness Daniel's able to participate from the beginning Because Ray's always in a rush to scramble through this mess of setting up a live stream. Hey Dave. Welcome back Yeah, glad to be here Dave Jackson school of podcasting.com Dot com dot com Was there gonna be an and they're usually so succinct there was and I you know, we're just gonna we're just gonna stop right there That's good. All right. So I was taken off guard man All right. Yeah, we do have a new chat But podcasters round table. No, I'm sorry youtube.com slash podcasters round table You should subscribe there if you ever get a chance to watch there's a chat there as well So we're looking at both of those chats. We had to switch our chat. I'm not sure I think the one we were using made us go premium. We're not going premium or podcasters and I'll pay for stuff Come on ridiculous. They want out of us money. Give me a break Try staying in business that way buddy. All right. Uh, what am I talking about? What the heck is up with Apple? It seems like a lot is up with Apple you potentially You should probably subscribe to your own show because you might not even be an Apple right now Have you checked lately? It's important to check. They are kicking out Shows left and right. I think Todd used the term ban hammer, which I thought was pretty funny They are busting out the ban hammer Smashing shows and you know, I don't think they're going to let you know if they know Yeah, apparently they don't I had a couple today actually by the end of the day. I'd seven Seven that's a lot in a single day and some of them were obvious where they had just it was Insane amounts of keywords stuffed in their author tag And so your author like if it was my author tag, it would say Dave Jackson But there's said something like Dave Jackson Let's just go podcast consultant podcasting Passive income John Lee doom was pat flin zig ziggler So that's cool. Like I don't have much problem with I where I have the problem is that that no warning Even though I guess in theory You could you could argue there's been warnings because they've told you This is not the way to do it. But you know No no warning no notification You're just gone, right and how are how are how are these people finding out? I don't really I just know they're coming to me and saying which was interesting. There was a a weird Glitch today where your episodes would disappear like your show would be there But you had no episodes that has been that's been fixed. Yeah, that's been fixed But and we're talking about it looks inside the catalog not inside your subscriptions, right? So this is when Which again, I always want to say number one less than 20 of people use apple podcasts the itunes I don't know what it looked like an apple podcast But people kept sending me shots of itunes today And their episodes weren't there and again that doesn't matter by the time you hear this that's that's fixed But what was weird is somebody would say I'm not in itunes and I would want to knee jerk reaction say Oh, that's just a glitch But then they'd say no seriously click this link and I would click on it And it would take me to the actual itunes desktop because I was on the computer To which point it would say this show is no longer listed in the us And I was like, oh, you're you're like you've been rejected And so I would go in and it would either be their author tag or the title of their show One of those two would just have An abundance of keywords and in some cases not a ton But nonetheless the name of their show was blah blah blah And then they would just have yada yada yada and yada yada and just you know one it had like I think it was four keywords But they had keywords. It was like it'd be like podcasters round table podcast gear podcast talk Cool stuff whatever it was three little you know keywords No, the name of the show is podcasters round table. That's it And so they got banned So daniel, what is what is apple taking people out for? spam basically trying to gain the system With search and like dave mentioned and there's there are examples out there just for example Search apple podcast for zig ziggler. The guy is dead and find out how many podcasts he's listed as the author of People are putting stuff in their tags knowing that these are particular tags that are searchable and whenever I've taught podcast SEO I've really emphasized now that you know what tags are searchable Do not abuse this because if you do at some point apple might change this or take it away Well, I guess too many people have abused it and apple is now taking it away and I'm I'm still I'm still really questioning how Where this line is and we can't get a definite answer from apple like for example, I have a Podcast I used to do about the tv show once upon a time No, not a good example. Let me take a different example a podcast on our network is called welcome to level seven Now very few people know what that actually means So we expanded the title to say welcome to level seven hyphen Unofficial marvel's agents of shield fan podcast So now it's searchable for agents of shield podcast according to the title because we can't just spam or we can't put Agents of shield in other searchable areas It makes the most sense to be right there in the title like a tagline Not keyword stuffing a tagline very different things keyword stuffing would be like saying agents of shield jessica jones marvel cinematic universe just like comma comma comma comma comma that's keyword stuff Pop culture is happening right now and I don't know what it is so what I'm what I'm really disturbed about and With this just from the search aspect of this if apple is saying they want it to be title only I think I know why they want that which we can get into later, but if they're doing that I'm concerned that a lot of podcasts that have good original names Won't be searchable like welcome to level seven for example No one go very few people go to apple podcast searching for welcome to level seven They're going to search for agents of shield looking for a podcast about agents of shield Or there's like stargate pioneer has a podcast too called legends of shield Well, if he doesn't have that word agents in there somewhere in the title Then it might not be found for agents of shield. So they're breaking search I get that they're wanting to prevent the spamming of the titles But if they're going to break the search like that or require that we break it on our own I think they need to give us something As an alternative that works I feel like they won't so those alternatives could be actually making the subtitle Searchable and appear right there's always been this subtitle itunes subtitle That you could fill in but it doesn't really show up Or the descriptions which are not searchable if you didn't if you weren't aware of that But I don't I don't think they will I don't think they want any opportunities I mean, they're either done with dealing with it or they're just going to make it very Simple by not allowing anyone to have the opportunity because it will happen no matter what I mean Even if they give us those things those will be abused and they'll take them away. So why would they ever give it? I mean, there's just no way they're never going to be abused when you have enough people involved. So Why would they ever give it? I don't I don't think it's going to happen. And I you know what? I don't I don't know if I care like I just don't know if I think that you need to do the optimization in your titles at this point Because we know titles are searchable of episodes You want to be found for any of those topics or keywords? I mean your first 10 episodes need to be like all the keywords you want to cover right like I mean and be careful there too. I mean you you don't want you can't What happens when you start abusing that, you know, but Well, I'm not sure if it still does it but apple podcast The app if if you put podcasters round table, let's name the show if you put podcasters round table the beginning of your title Apple podcast used to remove that because it was like, well, wait a minute. We don't need this If you look it's like a half an inch above on the screen And it would just remove it and people would would email me and freak out and they're like Hey, what what happened? It's not it's messing up my title and the thing is the thing about that is it's not like It's not like they can do that in terms of It's not a person doing that they're not removing not checking every title of your episode So if you have a colon a dash any kind of separator which would be your tagline separator Right in this case, it's you're separating the title of your show from the title of the episode Then it's just stripping based on that, right? I mean, I think that's how people are getting caught and caught and banned from the podcast app because It's picking up on these colons dashes or something. I mean, otherwise it's not like that. They're not digging through all these titles There's no Well, we just now talked about two different things episode titles where they're cleaning up automatically cleaning up The episode titles like for an example here and I'm wanting to check her feed while we're talking about this By emily procops podcast by the way Congratulations to emily for receiving her first copies of her book But um her podcast is called the story behind And it's at the story behind podcast.com I'm quickly trying to look at her episodes to see believe every episode of her podcast starts with the story behind But that's because it is actually part of the title So what does it does it have a separator the story behind hairspray the story behind matches the story Those are titles. They don't have separators right in her case. They don't have a colon after the story behind So what should be What I think is happening there is oh, no, you know, I I am wrong. Sorry her episodes are actually titled Without the story behind at the beginning but at one point they were they wouldn't be stripped out though Because I don't think she was putting a separator, right? Well, it's a separator thing That is unconfirmed. It's unconfirmed But just because you have a separator that that's going to flag something or it's going to be removed or something that I think they might be searching for separators, but Let me address the episode title thing first. Um, some apps like overcast would just see Oh the first So many characters of every episode title is the same. Let's just truncate this and so that affected her show And hers is one of the rare cases where you're eating it, right? It's probably a good Hers show that actually it's probably good that she made the adjustment It's probably not good that she had it like that I get that it plays on the title and stuff But it's probably better for her show ultimately because you are still seeing in a limited Character space you're still seeing the same thing all the way down, right? So it is great that everyone knows You know, hopefully that is that is a tough one, but it probably actually is ultimately better for her show Inside an app, right? But some apps you might see the story behind me No, it's interesting. So, okay, so what do we know if you're stuffing and stuffing So here's like Dave the example you gave is is easy. It's it's an easy. It's not even a judgment call, right? It's just clearly keyword stuffing, but what like Daniel was talking about with the tagline I mean this this show has had a tagline all my shows. This used to be a great Recommendation for independent podcasters meaning they're building a show from almost zero Or maybe zero audience and they want to use a creative name Gotta put on and gotta put on a tagline so that people know what the heck the show is actually about There's only so many Podcasts titles in each niche that can have the same descriptive name, right? You can't You can't just keep naming it the same thing, but I was working on my presentation today for I'm speaking in Australia and I found Five different podcasts with the name outside the box Which I find somewhat Silly that nobody thought outside the box when it came to naming their show Outside the box. So that's the whole thing is if if you can't I mean some shows should only be named Something, you know, you can't Yeah, I don't know then everybody's gonna start going to synonyms or something To come up with a name of their show Yeah, you're gonna have to have a unique name. So I guess I mean like I'm saying I think Right now if you're gonna optimize It's gonna have to be through the titles of your episodes and then those titles episodes better be relevant to The actual episode you make right don't just make a title of an episode to get found for it And that's where you might have to get creative and have some kind of episode Where you're still presenting value always look at presenting value not trying to game the system But you might need to do an episode that allows you to create content with that title You want to be searched for like going back to that tv show example It doesn't make sense If you're doing an episode of your podcast for every episode of the tv show It really doesn't make sense to have any one of those episodes named after the tv show itself But maybe you could do an episode that does use the tv show title like Favorite moments from tv show title Or something like that. Yeah, yeah, that's why I mean that's your first 10 episodes At this point for someone getting started probably needs to be strategic I mean it kind of already almost should be you should be thinking about that first whatever 5 10 whatever you want to be 25 You know ideally you want those to really bring people into the story of your podcast But every podcast is different and you know at some level like how much Do we want to tell people to go out of their way to cater to apple? Like do what they want create good show and like Don't worry about it. I mean it's this is ultimately not going to stop you from growing like if you if you have a good show All right, it's not apple's not going to be the thing that's in your way of it being a popular show Right, that's not how most people are going to find your podcast if it's good Does it suck? Maybe like will less people potentially but if you if this show You know, I'm not relying on people finding us in itunes to find my audience It's I'm just not That's not going to happen. I mean don't we see most people are not searching inside these apps To find new podcasts not from what I know But it breaks the whole ecosystem so like if One of my great favorite things to do when I'm trying to introduce someone new to podcasts is ask them What's your favorite tv show? So then I show them where the podcast app is on their phone And then ask them to search for the name of their favorite tv show And if good podcasts don't turn up in the results for the name of their tv show That does break the system. Now. I don't think podcasters round table. Yeah, I don't think Podcasters are going to go to apple podcasts necessarily searching for this They've most likely they've heard about podcasters round table from one of us as co-host one of our previous guests Or from someone else who talked about the show Depends on the the industry John Buchanis is is it time to think about not using apple podcast? Why do we need these rules? Good luck. I mean, yeah, the beauty of podcasting you can do what you want, right? You don't have to use apple podcasts I don't know what that really means. That means not putting your show on apple podcast. I mean I don't know why you do that. Like like I don't care if they're if their limits are just Blank fields like you can only have blank fields. I'm still gonna put my show up there Like if someone finds it cool if they don't I don't care Um, but I mean, yeah, you could get mad at an apple or whatever, but I don't know. I don't Well, what how this also breaks the ecosystem and this is something that todd has brought up before on the new media show is that Many other podcast apps feed their search from the itunes search api and if apple removes a podcast from their catalog because it doesn't Meet some kind of unwritten rule about titles or author tags or whatever then it is theoretically Removed from all of these other apps searching these other apps now. I say theoretically because I haven't actually tested this to prove it yet. It's it's Possible that even if apple removes it from apple podcast catalog that it's still searchable in the search api just for example, although descriptions aren't searchable in itunes or apple podcasts the The actual itunes search api does allow you to search descriptions. So that ability is there So that's just an example of one thing that's available available in their api. That's not available elsewhere However, it's possible that They remove something from their catalog and it affects Many other podcast apps and that's concerning too. Yeah, I mean and I think todd would say that's a limitation of those companies big building on top of someone else's stuff like You're going to hurt your users when you don't build it. I mean because you know Blueberry has its own directory. It's all completely maintained by blueberry. It's not affected by what apple does so Well, we've we've just I've just I don't know if it's going to play Can you check this out Dave because you know we're doing it live Okay, so yeah this um This show Are we allowed to say the word porn? Is that going to get us in trouble? Um, the name of the show was porn reboot And they were banned today for some minor keyword stuffing. I believe in their author tag um when I go to good old, uh What's the tool for um, I can't find the guy's name reagan star and I say what's the rss feed for porn reboot It goes what porn reboot? If I go to overcast it's still searchable Overcast. Yeah, marco Maintains his own database base. So what would be pocketcast? Maybe or something or? um The thing is I don't know what other apps Pull from the Pocketcast does I think we don't know if they have their own database Yeah, and it's possible that what many of these other apps do is kind of like what the old google listen There's a blast from the past But if someone searches for the podcast Through the api then it's added to their own database instead of their so they're they're crowd Um sourcing building their own database basically based on what people search for that could be what many other apps do It you'd have to talk to the developers are really to find out seems like a smart idea in this case, especially as we're going down the road where apples is making more and more decisions About what's in there and not in there and I don't think there'd be a way because they use so many of the fields You can't it's not like you could set up apple Like in libsen with its own destination Because you'd have to have Like almost every field would be duplicated. They already have an iTunes title and an episode number you'd have to have Like itunes name of your show it'd be almost like having a separate show just for itunes. So that's not an option either Unless you start getting into using feed burner for that or podcast error or something like that. It's just duplicating your feeds so that you can have separate feeds The I think a lot of people are also wondering why My apple want to be even if they're just wanting to remove tag lines from titles Which we don't know for sure most of the cases or I think maybe all of the cases that people have talked about There's been clear spamming of the titles. Is that correct dave? I have the seven that you Grant into today. Were they all spamming the titles or the tags? Yeah, I mean it was in in some case like I saw some that were just blatant But I had one that was just like a couple, you know, I won I think um Inner author tags you just put comma podcaster Yeah, I was gonna say technically we've been I've been spamming with this show I mean I changed I changed it all when I saw apple starting to do this Just like I stopped using napster when they started suing grandmas, but I never used napster. I just I heard about it and so You know Not a violation in terms of what they maybe was has this always been Here's the problem and here's why I think a lot of people are upset. I mean, there's a lot of reasons to be upset By the way, john says he's not actually mad. He just doesn't want to worry about being taken down to pay the rules But um Is the lack of information right again apple not telling us that either going to do something It just all of a sudden it starts happening and not telling us when it happens that you being individual podcaster And they don't they're not we don't have guidelines like here. We all we're you know Daniel's being very cautious to say we do not know that's right. We don't know We're just seeing this happen like right like a purge every day like it's just the day like he said he found seven today And sometimes it's obvious sometimes it's not and in fact would not really be considered I don't think a violation so much as a descriptor. I mean heck take the um Take the take the divider out take the colon out and just make it part of your name and and would that get you know I mean like fine I changed my name to be a little longer podcasters round table podcasters who love podcasting like that's the name of the show Now buds I changed it like you know what I mean like what are you gonna do about that? so Maybe I do maybe I do an itunes title of my show only it's very different. It's a longer title for itunes Here's the practical reason why I think they're doing this Hey siri subscribe to the audacity to podcast Just to confirm would you like to subscribe to the podcast the audacity to podcast? How to launch and improve your podcast by daniel j lewis podcasting industry expert and how to podcast teacher No, yes So she reads the entire title and the author tag And looking at what apple has already released. They've got siri siri is now on max siri is on apple tv Siri is obviously on your iphone. There's more spoken interfaces interaction with siri now and It looks like there have been rumors about airpods version 2 having an always on siri Just like your iphone has and they even kind of showed that off in their intro video for their iphone 10 s announcement But they didn't talk about their product but so so many things are going towards spoken words So I think that's what they want to do is prevent The response from being this really long thing and instead siri simply responding just to confirm Do you want to subscribe to the podcast the audacity to podcast by daniel j lewis? And keeping it simple like that. That's why I think they're really Trying to do this is to fix that user experience. Hey, come on. She's ai. She was just learned like figure it out siri What is the problem here? I mean ai is gonna kill us all in like 10 years anyways and it but it can't get a podcast title, right? I'm not worried about you ai. I bring it on. Yeah, it's recorded on google. Oh, man. I'm never mind I take it back. I love the robots. I'll help you in any way you need Just doomed myself live on my own show. I for one welcome our mechanical overlords. Yeah, they don't believe me It's not sincere at all They're all toast Uh So we don't I know We have a good show if we can lose if we can make dave mute his microphone I think it's twice now because there was something else Um, oh, yeah, we started singing a culture club culture club. Is that right dave's culture club? That is Uh boy, george. George, of course. Yeah, come on All right, we're gonna just let's just stop this and play 80s trivial pursuit I'll take ham radio for 200 alex. I mean dave on your shirt Uh, is that a podcast on your shirt dave ham radio ham radio 360? Uh, I can't see the whole shirt. So kyle melson Quit the show Silly ready for this He quit the show to spend more time with his family and he actually started podcast with his kids There you go. What the heck? It's not called ham radio 360. I guess Now he's got new ones and from understanding having more fun than he did before when he was dealing with sponsors and all sorts of other stuff and All around good guy more fun, but broke Yeah All right, so What do we know based on just the very impromptu title I drew up here with what the heck is up with apple It might be where we spend most of our time tonight We know that anything but the title of your show. So your show level title, right is Anything but that is has the potential to get you kicked out Especially if you are actually spamming it with it just to list right to be honest with you. I don't care about those people like Right, you deserved it. Like if if that is your plan Goodbye, like I don't even I I they're not even watching this. They're not listening or watching to us That's for sure. Why would they stick around with us now all these years? Be like, yeah, but I'm just going to go ahead and do that anyways If you are hey, you know the risk you're taking so that's cool It's it's the border. It's the real podcaster. It's you know, the real podcaster It's the one who is a good faith effort to do things, right? And they're just trying to get their show found in a legitimate way a way that has three words that explains their show so If you don't if that's you go ahead and just I would update your title to be just the title of your podcast At least for now, like I have changed so many of these things over the years like to adjust, right? We've adjusted these these rules have changed on seven separate different tags throughout the years, but anyways um Your author tag needs to be just your name, right Dave just your name in this case. It's all three of us So we know we have episode tags and we have show level tags, right? So In both cases, we're probably talking about the same thing. So author tag For this show is both it would be both all of us and for the episode I'd have all of us Well, and if we a good thing to do is if When we have a guest co-host, especially on the round table since you don't put the guest co-host name in the title They're always in there to add their name also in the author tag Anyone on the show for that episode should be couldn't can be in that author tag Um that episode is what I said anyone on that episode can be in the author tag. Yes for that episode Um our show author tag. It just says me daniel and dave Uh, it actually says me daniel and dave. So probably get kicked out for me Yeah, I I would say that if you have a company behind the podcast It would probably be okay to include that company in the tag too or network or something like that But the point is don't get spammy. Yeah No, this gets get spammy with it. So Show title author tag for both and then what else wasn't there? Is there a third? Get you just get you dave. What else is that the two things you're seeing people get kicked out for? That's what I've seen today And then there was a post on facebook from Todd Cochran from blueberry that said With the episode description again, no keyword stuffing The episode title needs to oh no, that's He's talking about the title again. He said episode description But then in the post he says the title but I think again that one for the description would be just blatant Just zig-ziggler zig-ziggler zig-ziggler over and over and over I think for the description And then I think other things too. Just don't forget if you're explicit market explicit because obviously somehow they're I don't know how they're I'm with you. I we can't verify that they're looking for dashes or colons or what but Somehow they're being a little more They're they're scrutinizing things a little. Yeah, so if something's explicit, I would want a market explicit I don't want to give them any reason to Say, all right, you're out. How about the new enthusiast over enthusiastic employee the new hire an apple over zealous Derek the new employee Derek He's stoked. He's stoked to be at apple and he's going to show everybody, huh You won't get your show past me It would be horrible if Derek is actually at the new employee That'd be fantastic. We just came up with a pseudonym just to be sure It's an acronym actually it stands for Oh, no, I'll go there. Okay. All characters are fictitious Jason Bryant said he was told to put matt talk podcast network in his author tag to make sure it matches With his provider page. So it sounds like apple told him to do that So I I've wondered about that on provider pages. I was going to apply for one But then if somebody searches for Dave Jackson I'm not in the author tag. So you're in the author tag for your individual episodes. So that would make your oh show up Yeah, that's true Okay, maybe we'll do that Uh, what else anything else on this topic with what what's going on with apple these days? Because it seems like we don't know and things are definitely happening I just say Don't panic when you hear certain things because already we've seen where a couple companies in the podcasting space Have put out misinformation that then went viral And then the companies had to backtrack and say oops, we communicated that wrong or we misunderstood that so Be cautious That's why you come to this show because that's always going to happen But hopefully like and that's that's what we pull our knowledge like one of us should have the actual information right like So tell your friends if they have a podcast. They're not here. They're going to get the wrong info You're just going to be steered wrong It's going to be the new tagline We steer you right colon we steer you right Steers you right in the direction of podcasting podcasting information and podcasting tools in the spirit of zigzagler Yes All right, we should probably look for another story How about authoring best practices from apple since we're on this apple Oh, yeah, let's just stick with apple because what the heck is up with apple? So What what we got daniel So they released along with the thing that we talked about in the last round table about the podcaster dot apple dot com They also released these podcast authoring best practices and the introduction says apple wants to create a better experience in apple podcast Not only for you podcast providers But also for your listeners and subscribers in addition to general podcast authoring guidelines this best practices Guide elaborates on compression formats bit rates and optimal signal levels You can use these guidelines to create the best quality and file size tradeoffs while ensuring a pleasant and distortion free listening experience So this then links to those three different pages about formats bit rates optimal signal levels Most of this is stuff that's been already pretty standard in the industry Like the loudness levels saying negative 16 now they said would you really would you really call it standard? I don't know that this has been standardized We talk about all the time and I and I would say that We have said we've said for a long time that this is probably coming as a standard But I don't know if it's widely applied. I mean no one's enforcing it Well, apple part of the reason why we got Negative 16 loves and just for clarification lkfs and lufs are essentially the same They are now especially since they apparently used to have be Lkfs used to not gate the silent part so we could throw off your actual target It does now from what I from from paul at produce new media Who's the authority if you want if you have a question about loudness and loves and any of this stuff Hit up at produce new media on twitter, but um, he says essentially those are the same now And part of where we got the negative 16 is looking at what apple podcasts or itunes at that point Was already doing with an optional feature buried inside that can bring your loudness levels over just like that on Yeah, that now that's just on paper. That's not for creators, right? Then so they got a lot of things wrong so daniel linked me to the spec page because I hadn't seen this yet So it's a spec page for creators For loudness and what else is on that page besides loudness? recommendations they talk about bit rates which Our recommendations, you know 64 to 128 kilobits per second for mono or 128 to 256 kilobits per second for stereo That's at 44.1 kilohertz or 48 kilohertz either of those just so that's that's pretty normal That's about what everyone's doing But the weird thing the controversial thing This is from the top of their formats page They say for efficient use of networking bandwidth when distributing podcasts The audio content is typically encoded or compressed in a lossy format like aac or mp3 Next paragraph actually is that the kicker although mp3 is the most commonly used format for audio podcasts We strongly recommend using aac over mp3 A lot of people are gonna there's there's a lot of nerds are gonna like that Like the nerdy people dive into some of this stuff because it can you can directly do more with it But now ios 12 supports markers That's one thing you do. Yeah But I mean, we're just not going to see people Making mp4s Like it's like Is it you're not going to amass adoption on this one important not for a long time, huh? In for a is the audio file format. That's the extension for a right It's it's weird. I know No, I know it's m4 Yeah, is that apple it'd make too much sense to have the aac file actually end in aac that would make No thought involved in that Because now you got to go m for A v wait, which one is it? Yeah, so it's m4a. I believe if I remember right Yeah, so the the strange thing well first of all apple Basically created aac and I know they're all sorts of other aspects to that but they're I think isn't that what the a is for? Uh, yeah, apple audio codec. I think that's what it stands for. I could be wrong though I think that's right. Um Yes, aac No, look, see I was well mp. I was right. They did list they say mp4 on here. We recommend you use mp4 That's for you though. No, that's not what they're saying They're they were that thing that you just read says when choosing aac we recommend the use of mp4 formats Over adts formats. Oh, okay. Okay That's because mp4 stands for impeg 4 Aac is an audio codec inside of impeg 4 right if you're if you're familiar with video You're used to aac. It's inside mp4s but So the reason why we have the file extension m4a is it's impeg 4 Audio, they don't list that though. They don't tell you that on this page They make a lot if you export an aac file you get a dot m4a. It's just that's what happens in the apps But they make a lot of mistakes here and they use a lot of even in their loudness stuff um, they use db often when they should be using lufs or lu They or lu. Yeah, they make a lot of A lot of basic errors and this so there's a lot of things that need to be updated here um Even the minus one db tolerance is not for true peak is probably not a good recommendation Well, and what's weird with this with aac is you might think oh well aac Makes a smaller file No, it doesn't because you're still encoding at 64 kilobits per second, but what's really weird I took a wave file No id 3 tags no images nothing extra. I used itunes I converted it to mp3 And I converted it to aac using the exact same formats for both and the aac The resulting file for mp3 was 14 megabytes and the aac was 14 and a half megabytes So I don't think that's going to be um proportional It might always be only one mega half a megabyte bigger look Apple wants you to tell everyone to subscribe to your show in apple podcasts make sense, right? They want you to use aac. It's theirs I mean it seems like a bias recommendation. I don't know. I don't worry about this This isn't going to affect anything and you can do what you want here It is interesting that they put that in there, but i'm sure it's just a bias slant I don't know that there's a I mean there will be some arguments for a technical that there's other stuff I think you can do with it, but Whatever, I mean And this is just their recommendation or their strong recommendation. It's not a requirement You recommend you use our stuff and they even acknowledged that mp3 is the most commonly used format And I think it was castro Did a study that james cridlin just um shared on pod news that um castro found that only 10 percent Of the podcast episodes released within the last I think one or two weeks Only 10 of them were aac Yeah, people putting in chapter markers what you can now do with mp3 which apple now supports Using aac doesn't mean that you're using chapter markers. I know what i'm saying. What are most of those people? Why are they using it? They're probably the people who want to use chapter markers Or they don't know that their app is export exporting as aac Yes, a blend of itunes default anything that's apple defaults to aac I like that they put minus 16 db because this is still up for debate and some people are saying. Oh, hey, um, you know the uh Like amazon's using minus 14 or spotify you think use that that's music It's more that's not a spoken words Recommended spec and so I like that apple's putting minus 16 what they exclude or don't include Is the fact that hey if you do choose the mono option. It's minus 19 They don't put that in so they are missing stuff that are is very important here. You do minus 16 mono It's louder Then then it's going to be for if you don't make that that that compensation um, I also found interesting that they Say you can include You can kind of define this in metadata So they say stuff that is exported out of what do they call it like itunes? exporter I'm not sure what that is Um, you can include this information which would then be cool. I mean then at that point the app could Read that and then it it knows exactly where to set the audio if it's using this so this this, um If it's using this for playback I mean it could be cool if you can include that in metadata and other podcast apps begin to to use that As well, um, it could be more of an easier way to implement instead of forcing someone's audio Soundcheck sort of I think sort of does that I think it does the sort of correction for you as opposed to on playback No on playback. Yeah Where was it that they oh There was some other page right not on this best practices section It was some other page right that they talked about. Oh, no here. It is loudness Metadata. Yeah, right. Yeah, you so modify the id three tags of an mp3 file. Why not an ac file? More in the header of an import mp4 Um Because that sounds easy for people that aren't geeks Yeah, so they didn't say what that goes into and I even looked in itunes today at what id three tags were available And I didn't see anything like loudness level or anything. They don't have it there There's something that well, I think tells you like if you look at the last tab I use it all the time and it sort of tells you like file information and I think it Maybe shows something in there, but you it's not something you can put in there Um, but it says it is important to note that mp3 files created with the itunes Export function will have soundcheck metadata. What the heck's the itunes export function? I export with itunes all the time Huh garage band maybe Can you as garage band has an itunes export option Weird so this is incomplete like all of this stuff that is on here What they have here is currently incomplete and obviously this will get updated I imagine another thing that just dawned on me is Like if I pull up like I'm a big overcast guy I have a a back button for 15 seconds and a forward for 60 If I put chapter markers because I know overcast uses chapter markers, but I'm like Where like you know what I mean like how do I I think you're supposed to put are you supposed to So Marco So Marco he has it's called what forecast And it that'll create it'll do this for you essentially So if you want to use if you want to put chapter markers into an mp3 file You actually use the thing that Marco created for overcast, which is that's that's one cast And um because I know you can make chapters in an mp3 file I've yet to do this in hindenburg I just heard one of the guys from hindenburg interviewed on another podcast and he said yeah, you can do it in an mp3 and I was like Hmm, it's only only now that only now that apple podcast supports this Does it make it interesting to me by the way because it's like well Now it's really prevalent. They might want to think about using it So the way that overcast does it now as of overcast version five Now this is at least with overcast some of the other apps that read mp3 chapters might be a little bit different, but um, I took What podcast is this? This is a podcast Marco's own podcast accidental tech podcast The playback screen looks This episode does have chapters the playback screen looks like it normally does you have to skip forward So many seconds and the skip back so many seconds If you swipe right to left you can see the show notes as usual now in a smaller space Which bugs me but um, then if you swipe one more time Then you see the list of the chapters Displayed differently in his app. You know, I want to play And then each of these chapters You can tap on or you can see your progression actually through one of these chapters and um some of them Some of them ones are that are underlined are actually hyperlink chapters where if you tap on it, it takes you somewhere Um, but any of these chapters if you tap on it takes it jumps you to that spot Now that's how overcast is implementing it other apps might be completely different. Let me actually check I know in overcast it's always been nice if you just put a timestamp if you just typed like eight colon three six It jumped eight minutes and 36 seconds Which is great And um, I know also since we're kind of on that subject power press just came out with a new version And they have a a similar jump to place Feature I've yet to play with that yet, but I know that's that's brand new I find it I find it interesting That this is a thing like it's been like this didn't really work When it was a thing when we were all Using like garage band to put in like pictures and I think even um with a power press one or forecast I think there's a even option to like include Like little pictures or something anyways, we know this I used to watch these listen to a painting podcast where different paintings will pop up and they talk about them But people abandoned this because it was more work Yeah, I'm wondering why this is why this is making a resurgence in the in the sort of from the app developers or podcast For me, I like the idea because I do like multiple segments in a podcast I like the idea. It's just uptake on this idea has never been that big. It's it's great I mean elsey does a fantastic job of always giving you even if it doesn't jump to it Just having a timestamp so I know where something begins I I love that and it's wonderful, but creating it is not as wonderful That's a lot of work And you know an aside there the only time I use those timestamps to jump in an episode Are when I want to skip content. I don't want to listen to yeah for me That's every time though. Like I mean even the feed the lips and show That's me. I hit play. I swipe right look for robin elsey talk and press Yeah, but but but never is promo I skipped but i'm here for but on top of that on top of that A lot of a lot of the times I will actually go to a feed episode Because elsey does such a good job in social That I only I want to hear that thing and shit and it's time stamped right so Yeah, what are you showing us daniel? No in apple podcast So I use the same podcast for example accidental tech podcast and an apple podcast the way that the chapter's display is of course completely different Um when you press play on an episode You have to then tap down at the bottom of the screen where the thin episode player is And then you see the cover art you see your play button your skip buttons and such if you then swipe from the bottom up Then you see expandable sections one of those is the description That's where the show notes are and then the other is the chapters And similar to overcast the chapters are listed there by name With their time codes and you can tap on it and it will jump the playback to that section There are no hyperlinks here, but um there might be images that change Um remember when apple podcast was easy to use Then you know what that makes me think of the other as I'm listening to you discover A very experienced podcast to discover how the heck this is implemented. That's the other problem with this It's not just there for the user like you have to be a power user and I have to you know I mean like so if you go through trouble to create it. It's also hard for people You know like it's right there, but just to find hyperlinks in apple podcast. I think I'm I'm about 60% sure on this but I think there was actually a time where if you were subscribed You saw one thing and if you weren't subscribed you saw another was but it was always like oh, I found them And that was like wait, how did I get to the screen? Yeah, wait, hold let me go back if I go to show episodes Blub, but then you'd find it it was it's the takeaway is friendly takeaways If you want to do this you're just going to really need to coach your audience Like it's going to be a thing for you and your audience and the people who listen They'll know it over time like you like putting a call to action link in your show notes. It's hyperlinked. You really got to tell people Hey Yeah, it's in there So yeah with my audience is I've said You can get them in the when I'm talking about links and such I can say you can get that At the show notes at the audacity to podcast comm slash whatever or a type or swap type or swipe Oh type tap Tap or swipe try and say that fast 10 times A tap or swipe away inside of your podcast app and then yeah, I know I'm not telling them specifically how to get to the notes But I am just reminding them if they're familiar with that then they know. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's just a tap or swipe away by the way, I navigating Right now to the audacity to podcast comm slash whatever and I think you should put something funny there because there's just a 404 Our listening audience It's going to be in the show notes of this episode swipe left up down a bba Left right left right and you'll find it I just finish anyways. Oh, okay won't go down the video game rattle. All right I don't know What to take away from there, you know the good thing about all of this and we talk about loudness And we say a lot of crazy words Like if you're just this is something as a it's a good producer is someone who listens to this show Um, hopefully you're already doing it's not really a concern You don't have to worry about like apple justing for you or another app implementing Specs like if you're doing general loudness normalization Um, which is you know, you're hitting this minus 16 lufs, which is going to give your show a consistent You know loudness level volume level from show to show um If you're doing this as a producer, then then you're good. Um I think if you just deliver that way, you don't have to worry about what what the platform is doing itself Um, but you know gotta know a few things, but if you don't, you know, I love using our phonic um, you still need to Balance your levels from person to person that really helps and then a pass through a phonic and they can make you hit these weird lettered names like lufs lefts lkfs and all this stuff, right? So anyways the takeaway for me is if you don't know about this find out about it We have episodes on this um, the podcaster studio did plenty of stuff on this um, I get told you again paul is uh app producing media is a great resource so If you're a producer look into loudness levels for your show and then just bring your show up to spec your episodes up to spec and Carry on don't worry too much Yeah for me, I I think the the takeaway is There are always things changing in the podcasting space I think that's something we've all learned over the last whatever 10 years or so Is that things always change and you just look at it and go okay. Here's this new thing Do I need to do this in my show? Does is my audience going to benefit from this? And if so How much time does it take to implement this new thing? What's the what's the good news? What's the bad news thing decide whether or not you're going to use it or not? and then Move on. I mean, I was just thinking it just in doing that just in in going to the movies Over the last five years. We've gone from you know, a pretty crappy sound system to surround sound to um, now there's xd, which they have this extra widescreen Um, when I lived up in cleven, they they revamped this one theater to where they had like leather Seats that reclined with a cup holder and from what understood They were eventually going to have a thing where people would actually bring you stuff So I think every industry has its share of things just changing. So you kind of have to be Open to maybe possibly change don't get too comfy with what you're doing because things are probably going to change in a A few years. Yeah, you always said that you should grow as a producer Like you're always looking to improve your show, right? And I mean if you're listening to this Show you're the type that that is interested in staying on top of like What's new? What should I be doing? How can I grow? Um, so congrats? I think you you're pretty ahead of the game if you're listening to a podcast about podcasting, but you're a small group We have what do we have to 125 downloads per chef? No, I'm kidding But uh, so we have a handful of people doing it, right? You know, the other people freak out There are the people who don't stay on top of this stuff and they just don't know, right? I mean Dave gets an email every day Someone uploads their show to lips and and then they're like my show's not on itunes two minutes later Where's my show on itunes? I was not showing up and they just don't know. They don't know what's going on I was keeping track of that today. I had five of those. Yeah, I Published it. I just I published it and then you go in you you published it 27 minutes ago Yeah, all your subscribers who wanted have it. Yeah, if you subscribe to your own show, please You'll see where it's there again another benefit Is that you have listened to one of our shows before and you know should be subscribed to your own show Um, because you'll know when apple kicks you out I'm waiting Can't wait. It's like a badge of honor Do it. I was banned. Do it um, what else we have Spotify opening up the floodgates Finally Finally, that's what some people are saying. Yes, and no, um, I'm not sure Dave's saying Well, the thing that I found out today Is people went over and submitted and I was really surprised either a They're submitting a different feed or what they hold on What Dave is saying is that now anyone can go to like their submission portal and they had this But now it actually will work whereas before you kind of need to be on a host that had a connection to spotify Like lips and blueberry I don't know if pot, but you know all those not sound glad Um, that was your way to get on spotify now anyone can submit and so now Dave Right and so what's fun is in some cases people have gone through blueberry and Lipson and who is spreeker whoever to get on soundcloud. They see this new fun towing to go. Oh To get on get on spotify. No one wants to get on soundcloud. Yeah, so thank you So they've you know, they've they've used your their media host to get on soundcloud. Cheese spotify too many s's and um And now they see this and they're like, oh cool and they're resubmitting a show That's already on spotify And then they go to spotify they search for their show and holy cow. There's two of me And so they go to listeners, right? So then they come to us and go. Can you remove it? To which we go. Well, you put the second one there Why don't you remove it and they go? Well, I talked to spotify and spotify said you remove it To which we then go to spotify and go remove it It's this whole weird, you know, so that's what we keep saying And what's interesting is number one. They say daily stats Well, all I can say is they've said that same thing To all the other media hosts and you talked to rob greenlee you talked to rob walch Daily is when things are working great But sometimes daily means every other other other day So i'll be really interested to see because they're promising things that i'm like, wait a minute Why didn't you give this to the media host like they I saw somewhere where they're promising demographic data And so i'm like well hold on Because somehow they're getting you know some sort of api that the other media hosts didn't get They're also saying at the same time But it's because they're calling it beta and they're telling you they're calling it beta because they're like That stuff's coming. We're not sure when what stuff we want to what stuff we want to do So they're making they're making it real sexy from the start So that you submit and there was an article in rain news which seemed to to indicate that I don't know if it's coming from whoever wrote it in rain news But they said that at one point there was a There was talk of a submission portal for musicians where you can upload your music to spotify That's that is definitely not already existing Very close. I've read that in a couple different music Well, I know the end of that article said the people at blueberry and lives and better be watching this with an Eagle's eye as if like spotify is going to become A host that they're going to get in a hosting game and be direct competition But so the address we're talking about is podcasters dot spotify dot com whereas apple. It's podcaster dot apple dot com and podcasts connect Dot com on spotify. It's podcasters Dot spotify dot com. They got that everyone many s's and s Good luck confusion. But um, so I'm looking at my stats. I submitted my podcasts my own feeds To spotify a couple days ago And so now I see stats some very limited stats on my podcast and surprisingly one of my podcasts my once upon a time podcast Which if you're listening to the audio right now You might want to go look at the youtube video for whatever amount of time you're listening through here because i'm sharing my screen But um, so for my once upon a time podcast which has ended It's actually the most popular of the podcast. I submitted to spotify And so I do see um some stats on the audience on uh starts and streams What that means? I don't know listener stats This is by day followers That's basically subscribers. I believe because I think that's the language that you use on spotify Follow and get And here's that demographic information now. They're getting this from their user accounts, right? It's not like What um podcast hosting companies don't have access to well I mean they don't have access to demographic data The app developers might in the case of spotify they require you to create an account So they have some of this information on um some of their users who opt into this so I can see That this once upon a time podcast 75 female 25 male audience that I knew that about our audience. I'm the age range And this is very limited I have 16 listeners On spotify with this over three days. I think two or three days of data So it's extremely limited data But then it shows me the age breakdown zero to 17 years old 18 to 22 23 to 27 20 34 35 to 44 45 to 59 60 to 150 Wow And I know and then I'll move the country breakdown. My big question is why why did you submit this? Why wasn't this already in you you you use hosting? So what's going on you have I'll ask the podcast went through one of the hosts or no No, I never used you never submitted to spotify submit to spotify. You've just been waiting for this, right? Yes, okay So I know what you might be thinking but I wanted to wait for it. No, no Well, that's I was hoping you've never used blueberry to submit to spotify because that's one thing I haven't done People are freaking the heck out about being on spotify. Well, not only that but now with that democratic data Yeah, that stuff at the bottom Because you can get that from spreeker Because spreeker not only is a media host, but they're also a community so I can get my demographic Data from people listening on spreeker, which again is going to be a very small portion But nonetheless, it's it's more data. So now that I can see demographic stuff. I can get that from no I can't get that from apple well I can say Through the as dave puts it big. What was it big fat smarty pants? So we've had that from apple through their Special invitation only network program called site manager, which is going away. It's very very old And demographic information inside of I thought we had it in the new podcast connect Maybe not. I'm looking I see so consumption So Dave should be talking about that So Dave should we leave Our host fed spotify show and go so I will be talking to the folks. I talked to my boss about this And he said if they had that information he goes that means You know, we need to go over them and go. Hello. Excuse me. Remember us. We were the people that were helping you do this You're in a half Where's our demographic data? So I'm a sure I Again, I have I can't speak for a lipson, but I would assume if that data is there All the other me to host speaker blueberry lipson pod bean Pinecast I saw a couple lists other hosts in there listed when I was playing with the The back end that daniel was showing because so far my show the history of the Six shooter band is it has been in spotify for about 10 hours and so far Not not shocking at all. I have zero listens Even though I listened to like five episodes today and that's why I did that to see To probably make it about a music genre that people on spotify might actually be looking right That should be the history of the country band six shooter something something. Yeah Exactly and so I'll be interested to see now that it's not that's not a beta thing that exists That's not santa claus. That's not a unicorn. I've seen it and it exists So I'll be So don't like have some patience. It is in beta. They say meet spotify for podcasters beta beta beta He patient like I'm not gonna run like I don't even care about being in spotify to be honest with you But I'm there because I'm gonna be everywhere, but I'm not I I think you guys at lips. You've seen some crazy stuff people like People just seemed to I just a lot of buzz. I think you spotify is so big worldwide People just want to be on it to the point where I think people are just want to be just on spotify. I'm like, what? Well, I've seriously I saw somebody one day now realize when you start a podcast You don't need to put in a lot of info. You need a graphic You need a description You need to pick some categories and you need one live episode And I've had people sign up and they will go over they will delete all the other destinations Don't need a feed. They'll delete their feed. Don't need a player. Don't need nothing I'll delete and the only thing left is spotify and they don't upload an image They put in One episode and go why am I not in spotify and you're like Well, in that case spotify comes over when they see no image. They reject you because They're like, wait, that's not gonna work So, yeah, I don't know what the deal is. There's but there is a definite I wouldn't say mania, but there's a lot of people Really really like it's just a buzz. It's like a what's new. Yeah, and rob will tell you. Hey, it's the number two space but you know that number two is a number two like I mean It's it's a fraction of the market still what is like 2% or something and that's fine There are shows that are doing very well on spotify, but freaking out about Getting on spotify now. There are two ways now to be on spotify. So Congrats you can easily get on Probably the reason so many people are so Eager overly eager about getting on spotify. I mean, it's good to be on spotify Yes, be on spot. Be everywhere everywhere with your podcast because it's rss. It's syndication. It's really simple syndication Whoa, are you sure that's what they call it? Let's call it aac. That makes total What I think is causing people to be excited is for a while spotify have been bringing in top name podcasters into spotify podcasters that attract a particular demographic the same demographic that Is I would guess represents the majority of the spotify user base millennials or Somewhere around that age range So like you would see a lot of comedy top comedy podcasts or like retin link from youtube and such popular YouTubers getting on spotify and so you would hear these big name podcasters saying things like listen to our podcasts on spotify And then they're let's just call the millennial audience just for a label Then their millennial audience podcasters Are thinking oh, man this top podcasters in spotify I want to be in spotify too because that's where all the cool things are And spotify is so cool because i'm a hip cool rad millennial. I'm dugular and and whatever And you're stoked And so I think It's It's a self. What would you call that self selecting demographic? I'm not sure the actual term for it, but I think it's it's a little bit of a bubble And I think the enthusiasm is because of that bubble and again, this is all theory or maybe it's even only a hypothesis Really, it's a gold rush. It's a gold rush. We were like that's where it's at right now. That's where i'm going to get popular Yeah, really cool things are there. Um, that's where I listen to my music I mean, yeah, I mean You should be there like there are a couple like I said now there are ways to do that for everyone to make it easier You know to pay for hosting to get in um But you know Just slow your roll Don't freak out. Um There'll be something new, you know, wait until pandora puts podcasts on dave. That'll be fun for you Then they'll be opening pandora's box We can only pray that ammonium We can only pray that if and when that ever happens that they're doing pass through and not Hosting the files because the fun thing with spotify and I get this a lot is Hey, I uploaded a file um, it's not showing an itunes yet just to go back to that one and I have a mistake in it So now you have this weird thing is if you up you can upload a file that's repaired and itunes Apple podcast because it's the same file name when people click on that link it still works because nothing's changed Spotify sees that same file name and goes oh, well, there's nothing's changed over here And for whatever reason oh because they've made a copy of it So they don't grab the new they don't grab the new file because it looks like the old file So now for to get this to work you have to upload a file with a new file name which now temporarily Breaks all the other apps that are looking for file name a But now spotify will grab the new copy so It's sort of sort of okay. All right. It's um There's this technical thing that's buried inside your rss feed called the GUID the globally unique identifier And it changes for every Post you make in your rss feed So you could change theoretically if you already published an episode you could change Everything about that episode all the text the file name the title Everything but as long as it's the same post it has that same GUID And most podcast apps would not see that as a new episode No matter what information you change as long as that GUID is the same If you change the GUID on the flip side of this if you change that GUID And you leave everything else the same most podcast apps would see it as a new episode and apple tells you Do not change the GUID because that can hurt so We don't really know which way spotify is looking at it if they're working like a proper podcast app They would be looking at the GUID. So changing your file name Should not even affect spotify, but maybe spotify isn't maybe They could be different. So the the best thing is if If you have a horrible mistake Just create a new post delete your old one Um And that should work, but then again since spotify is basically copying your rss feed to their platform What might end up happening is that then it looks like Your episode is listed twice. Yeah, that's what I said It's a hassle when when they make a copy of it. You're like, uh And then I mean there's a weird thing in in lips And if you wanted to you could make a new post just for spotify So it doesn't go so the since the first time it went since since apple is updated fine with the the same file name You can actually remove it from spotify in that episode create a new episode Only for spotify and already most people start to roll their eyes in the back of their head and Does it all sound familiar? Did anyone learn their lesson on this one fairly recently? I don't know Right with itcher. Yeah, I'm gonna say well, that's me I so I don't know when the pandora thing is gonna happen. I just pray that when they come out it's passed through because Uh and then well, Todd, I don't know if it's true or not Todd and Rob. We're talking about on the new media show that uh That some of the bigger networks appear On spotify to be having passed through they're not making copies right again Stitcher went through all these things right they they first they made copies cash everything then you could selectively say Hey, don't do that dude and they wouldn't do it and then they just stopped doing Right took a few years That that happens to the big name podcasters on spotify will eventually become available to the smaller podcasters This just in for my boss They're they're adding the features that we just saw To their api at some point Yeah, so so you were talking I went and took my show off ellipse in I submitted through the portal Dave Can you just fix that for me please see? I did them all I did a c and for I everything I could do I put I submit it and Dave's just gonna fix it Dave I'm gonna put a ticket in right Yeah, so whoever your media host is blueberry lips and spreeker whatever It's coming. We don't have any ta from uh spotify on that yet, but it's they they have said yes We will give you the toys just hang tight Thanks. Thanks a lot. We've done nothing. We want to let us let the beta testers, you know Beat the crap out of the stuff first I'm not sure I'm not sure they know what they're doing per se They're throwing they're throwing that's a lot. They're throwing pasta at the wall spaghetti at the wall whatever that is Yeah Uh, they're letting you figure it out as it goes along. I mean, I don't know I happen to see the fun thing is it's more stats to obsess over Yeah, because like, you know, you know last week I I had 68 percent male and this week It's like 65 and a half. Do you think I should go to bi-weekly? Should I should I name the show podcasts and not podcast or anything else? I can obsess over that has nothing to do with my download numbers Oh, you just wait. I'll give you something to assess Right on well New toys though. We've attacked a couple different companies tonight. So I think we're good. Thank you so much We love you apple and spotify. We do actually if we no seriously though if we view we hate the robots Oh, we're all dead If we didn't love and respect what these companies were doing or or Appreciate them. We probably wouldn't talk about them all that exactly. We wouldn't care. Yeah See real real slippery slope argument going, you know It's like spanking your kid. It hurts me more and it hurts you It's like I do love you more than this feels though promise Uh, no, but it's true. Obviously we care about the medium We care about the platforms that support the medium and so I mean, that's just what we do here using the medium Oh, yeah, the listeners those those guys too. Yeah But oh, I care they're not listening. Anyways, apparently my download stats Say no one's listening All right. Hey guys, that was fun. I mean just the core. We got literally just the hosts um but Sometimes that's what we do and this was we kind of just had a few things to I feel like some of this was PSA type stuff. It was, you know, public service announcements Go go go subscribe to your show. Go make sure your show's not Violating the new thing that you can violate in itunes apple podcast fix it. Um And just overall always be, uh Paying attention to what's going on with your show, but again, we'll do that for you So just subscribe listen to the next episode and by episode. I mean round. All right That'll be around 118 podcasters round table dot com Daniel j. Lewis. Thanks again. Thank you from the audacity to podcast.com and Something very new a couple very new things coming very soon. I have a question about that. Can you answer it? Maybe not now. Not now. Okay. All right. Nevermind. That was me Inside joke Dave Thanks for joining us Dave Jackson from the school of podcasting.com Very nice. All right. Hey, if you want to see what we actually look like youtube.com slash podcasters round table But your eyes are better off if you don't so we appreciate you listening in the feed Hey, are you listening on spotify? Let us know because i'm not going to check the stats Maybe i'm not even there. Who knows it's casual here People at a campfire. Dave. Goodbye