 Yes, and then you can share it with me afterwards. Okay, that sounds great. All right. Very good. Wonderful. Let me go back to my notes just to quickly see what I've prepared. Wonderful. So I typically start with the role of the person that I'm talking to. So I'd love to better understand what, I know what your role is. I know where you work and what you do, but it would also help me understand what your goals are and what is it that you try to achieve to see if there's anything we can do for you basically and better support you. Can you hear me? I think I've lost you. Very interestingly, soon as you started recording I lost your voice. Oh, can you, can you hear me now? Yeah, I can hear you now. It seems... No, no, I can't hear you. No, not anymore. Right, it seems that it just mutes me randomly. So I'll just have to keep pressing space from time to time, but I think it's okay. Oh, sorry about that. Yeah, I can hear you now. Yeah, good. So let's get started. Sorry, so please. Yes. So my first question is what your role is basically. I'd love to learn more about what you do and how you do it and perhaps what your goals are. What is it that you're trying to achieve in general? Can you press space now? Yes, so yeah, I'm the Digital Minister of the Taiwan's Cabinet and my main role is three things. I work on open government, which means that people can start a petition. And in the petition, they can summon me anywhere with 5000 signatures. And when we do that, we always use Slido to make sure that people joining in the upstream, which we always have a Slido QR code that they can dial in to have a conversation or people in the same room, but because of asymmetry of power would prefer to speak pseudonymously. These are the two main constituents using Slido in our open government work. So that's my first portfolio. My second portfolio is called Social Innovation. And in this role, I tour around Taiwan. For example, today, I just returned from the Xinzhu County and I lived there for a entire day or even for a day before or two days before to learn about the local issues. And then I connect with five municipalities and 12 central government section chiefs or higher using Zoom. And so in the Zoom, it's like a fishbowl. I'm in the one meeting room where the people are already used to mid in their local town hall and different municipalities just join through Zoom so they can solve the issue together and brainstorm and absorb the risk because if people there are upset, you know, you can't hit people over Zoom, I'm the only one in the vicinity and share the credit because they can see the central government people solving their problems in real time. And it's not broadcasted, meaning that whenever people have an input, it must be from somebody in the same room. But on the other hand, because these are people with less digital savanness, sometimes they need people's assistance. For example, someone will turn their handwriting into input from Zoom and it's used that way. And the other way is because there's five different municipalities and there really is no way for people to raise their hand and for me to notice. And so they usually use Slido as a way to kind of flag their concerns. And we always say that people's responses through Slido, especially URLs, which is very difficult to say and be heard correctly across five different places, they basically replace the Zoom chattering. And so we add the recent question part of Zoom, of Slido, to make sure that the newest ideas are always read in real time. And so that is as opposed to the open government role where we sometimes just don't show the latest questions. So that's the second one. It's not live streamed. And it's basically used as a alternative to Zoom chattering. I understand. Interesting. And finally, on the third role, which is use innovation, we also use Slido for internal meetings. I just said there's no external constituents, but because there is still power imbalance in the room between the minister and their young reverse mentors, we still use Slido. And we sometimes also use it for voting. And the voting part I understand is not today's idea. And so I would just say that I also have some future requests on voting that I would table. Of course, of course. Surely we'll get to them. I'm sure of that. Very good. Thank you so much for walking me through the different types of sessions where Slido is utilized. In regards to those public sessions where people attend, it's a public meeting, I assume, who are these people exactly? Are these the constituents, I believe? So because we're at a national level, we answer to the collaborative meetings that the agenda is set by anybody that can collect more than 5,000 signatures. And so there is a like the We the People platform, the E-Petition platforms. And I include here the website that described enough about one particular social or environmental issue that they petitioned online and on the preset time dial in to the livestream or come to the face-to-face meeting. Right. Thank you. I've just opened the link just to make sure it's saved. Understand, I noticed that the format of the session is typically the same for these meetings that you actually have the iPad in front of you and you switch between Slido and other materials that you've prepared for the session. Is this always how it works or do alternate with some other style? So in venues with two projectors, sometimes we project one with Slido and one with the live slides, but that is rare. I would say in 90% of cases, it's switching. Right. And do you always drive the conversation by using Slido? Is it always like that, that you simply start off with questions from whoever is in the audience? And then as you go through the questions, you also kind of pull in different content. And I'm assuming you're explaining or providing answers also through the content that you've prepared as you're responding to different questions. That was my assumption. Maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong. Okay. Right. So you're talking about actually not the public meetings by my lectures, which is in my really non-ministrial facility, because I'm bringing only myself to the table and I'm only answering like this, ask me anything for it. So if you see, I show a slide at a very beginning without any informative material, that's one of those ask me anything, lectures. So and for that, you are correct that I usually just explain how Slido works, maybe begin with a five-minute introduction, but then it's all Slido driven. Right. Then I have to admit, I think I saw the lecture this afternoon. It wasn't one of the public meetings. Okay. So can you, cool. So can you perhaps also explain how exactly or what your set up is for those public meetings? That would be helpful. Right. So for the public meetings, I think it will be really good if we can look at a actual live stream meeting. So we have some understanding of what's going on for the public meetings. I'm going to share one of the more recent ones just a second. Right. This one. So it's the most recent one. There's many. You will see the title says the 50 A is one. Yes. And from the very beginning, you can see that part of the live stream is Slido. I can see that on the left-hand side. Right. Yes. Yes. Okay. So it's, yeah. So it's live stream. So there are people physically in the audience, but also people joining online. And they can see this, what I'm looking at right now, basically. So they can see Slido questions on the left-hand side. Yes. So what I was describing is that people in the room sees only one projector and they necessarily flip over the presentation and Slido. As you can see on the bottom left side, but if you see the live stream, then you'll always have the view of both Slido and the presentation because of how open broadcast is being set up. Yes. Now, if you compare your public lectures and these public meetings, where do you feel Slido is working better? Or maybe it's working well in both scenarios. I'm just wondering what your kind of impression is and how it's utilized. So I'm beginning to think if I can dial in too soon using my other laptop, I will have less voice problems, but please don't disconnect. I will see if I can have voice coming in from one, but the screen coming in from the other. Okay. This should work. Thank you. Thank you for your flexibility. I appreciate it. No problem. And so, okay. I believe this is working. Yes. Okay. Very good. So let me just continue then. Okay. Right. So the point here is two-fold. One is that my public lecture literally only existed because of Slido. I had no other public lecture styles before. And so that was entirely structured around Slido. So it's kind of meaningless to ask whether it works well or not because for each of your new feature, I changed my public lecture style. It used to be that I handcrafted those artisanal QR codes, but now you've made it into a core feature. And so I don't have to do that anymore and so on. And so I would say that my public lecture will evolve with Slido. It's a little bit meaningless to ask whether it makes it good or not because without Slido, I wouldn't accept those public lectures. Interesting. And for the open meetings, I think Slido worked okay. It's certainly better than the YouTube chat rooms for obvious reasons because you can highlight and you can upvote and there's no paid advertisements or something like that that you can pay a few dollars to have your comments put on top. We really don't need that feature and things like that. Yeah. And so it's a much more pure relationship. And it also gives people in the same room something to do because otherwise they just flip their phones. But now we use their phones as part of the open meeting. And because open meetings are really long, they're five hours. And so people get distracted quite easily. And Slido certainly moves away one of the main sources of distraction. And I thank you for that. No, thank you for using it so well. That's really nice to hear. Now that you've mentioned questions a couple times, I do have a few there that I'd like to ask you about. So regardless of maybe we can focus on those public meetings because those take four hours. So the number of questions might be higher and also the nature of the questions might be different. Yes. When you receive those questions, how do you prioritize which questions you take first, second and third? I know we have the popularity order. So I guess that's the default state. What I'm maybe suggesting is that it's not the ideal way of prioritization. And I'm wondering if you have any other way of picking questions that you want to answer first, if that makes sense. Yes. So we tried quite a few ways. We tried doing timestamp order, which is disaster. And I mean, it's a real chat room, of course, but then people get distracted too easily. Meaning that it's almost impossible to stop the influx of comments. So that's it. We tried the idea of holding everything in moderation, but then the moderator is very busy then. And people will actually stop using their phones for a slide though, if they have to wait for too long for it to be approved for obvious reasons. Yeah. Right. So we are settling on the upvote for now. But we also use the built-in features such as highlighting, starring and so on as a kind of internal order. But I would certainly say that it's not ideal. And people figure out very quickly they can use private browsing to push whatever to the top, just by opening a lot of side windows. I don't know whether that's still the case, but we consistently did it. Sorry, can you repeat the last three words that you said? I broke up, sorry. We consistently get people who gain the system using private browsing and arbitrary number of likes. Maybe something only they care about as an individual. That's very strong. Yeah. What made you consider not using the default ordering by popularity? As I said, three reasons. The first one is that sometimes it's being gained. Oh, okay. Sorry, I didn't connect the dots. Sorry. So like using private browsing, you can gain it. So that's the first reason. I think that's the main reason. And the second is that sometimes the volume is so much that people cannot easily using like in a constructive fashion. And so it become less predictable than time stamp order, but don't have the same moderation power anyway. So that's the second reason sometimes. And the third reason is that sometimes because of the volume, we thought pre-moderation would be a good idea, but it turns out it's not. And for English lectures that I give, I found that the question only is a really good compromise. I don't have to moderate that much. And the people who are simply dropping in to share an image URL is discouraged to do so, which is excellent. But at the moment, it's not for Chinese traditional, not for memory. And so all our open meetings are in memory. So we haven't used that for that. Okay. Okay. I understand. This is quite interesting. So to better understand what you, what happens there, have you ever been in a situation that you looked at the screen or on your iPad and you thought like, these four questions are great, but I wish we had better questions? Meaning that you were hoping that the questions could be, could have much higher quality, if that makes sense. Yeah, I see what you're saying. But in open collaboration meetings, what concerns me is not the quality of the top questions, but rather the volume. Inevitably, when the volume is moderate, like people are watching live stream, 5,000 people are watching, but they understand that this is for agenda setting. And so they only input unique points that are not already raised by other people. If they do that, then there really is no low quality, even though people ask questions that are very basic, we're happy to answer them. The problem is flood control, as people making the same points, just in different ways. I understand. And how, and interesting, how are you, how are you solving this problem right now, apart from popularity? Because you can allow upvotes, so you get the best ones on top. So I guess that's the way of approaching the problem, that this is the way. Yes, so currently it's a combination of disabling the recent question, allowing for 240 instead of 180 comments. So we reward longer comments this way. And sometimes just do manual highlighting or even manual upvoting to get the quality ones on top. So that's what we're coping with, but it's not ideal. Okay, so if you want to highlight a good question that is not in the top four, you have to kind of scroll down and find the question. That makes sense. Is that? No, currently, what we will do is to use another device, and just either arbitrarily upvoted, which is what I sometimes do. Or if I just don't have the time to do that, then we just arbitrarily press highlight in the admin interface from another device, saying that we want to surface this one. Oh, right. Okay, interesting. Very interesting. And what is typical the reason for you to look for that question? I'm trying to understand that if someone's presenting, and you want to take questions, that presenter is probably not going to know. I'm trying to understand how do you get to that question that you've been highlighting? The idea here is not what you're... So there's no single speaker in a open collaboration meeting. People can raise their hand and become speakers, essentially. So think of a more deliberative meeting. And what we're saying is that people in the live stream, obviously, they cannot raise their hand. Yes, but they can raise their point. And we want the points to be taken as post-it notes. If you see the YouTube live stream, you will see a lot of post-it notes around the later half. Like if you scroll to, I don't know, two hours or later, you will see a lot of post-it notes being posted on three groups. Oh, yes. I can see that. And so what we want to do is that we want to raise the unique points that's not raised by the people in the room as post-it notes to those physical boards so that people can collectively think about those key questions. And so this is not a question to a speaker in the usual sense, but rather an issue to be talked about in a group dynamic. Oh, I understand that. Yes. I also noticed that you kind of included a link to one of the collaboration applications, Myro.com. That's right. That's right. Yes. Yes. But people cannot write on Myro, obviously. It's not designed for crowd input. So we take crowd input from Slido and hand carry the pertinent questions by reading them aloud and moving them to Myro. All right. Interesting. Oh, this is fascinating. Yeah. And it's a bit of between question and ideation. Yeah. And so but it's not really ideas because they are in its format questions, but we want to treat them as kind of opening questions with no fixed answer for people to brainstorm. And in that sense, it's a little bit ideas. Yes. Do you feel like the questions feature is serving this purpose well? No, as I said, but it's better than the ideas or pose feature. And so that's what we're working with, obviously. Yeah, I understand. I understand. Have you used one of our features which is called labels? I'm just curious if you've heard of that one. I've seen labels, and I really haven't tried it. Okay, fair enough. That was just one of my ideas that I had. I saw it only because it was translating it. But I haven't had the occasion to use it for sorting. It would be nice if just by labeling it, it automatically, you know, you can switch between labels in a question view or it's labeled questions become Myro cards automatically using an API. Those are obviously things that would help, but I haven't really used labels. It's useful. Yeah, no, it's all right. So the API thing is not available, but you can definitely label questions and then display only those labeled questions, let's say for the participants, whoever is in the collaboration, so that you can achieve with labels. Yeah. Okay, but it's a language agnostic, right? I mean, I can use it now. Yes. Okay, cool. Wonderful. Let me go back to my notes real quick. Thank you for explaining the session. Thank you for a patience. I wasn't, I didn't always understand. So thank you for explaining. No problem. No problem. And labels look interesting. Can I multi label a question? Sorry, can you repeat the question? Can I assign a question multiple labels? Yes, you can do that. Yeah. Oh, excellent. So, so maybe I'll try it next time. Wonderful. So I'm wondering which kind of which session we should talk about now in regards to this question I have, but maybe you can choose. What happens to the questions after the meeting? My assumption is again that maybe during the four hour, five hour meeting, you're able to answer the questions and also categorize them properly and do everything that you're supposed to do with the questions. But I can imagine that in some sessions, there's not enough time for all the questions. But again, I might be wrong. So what happens to the questions that you either don't manage to answer, or even to those questions that you managed to answer? Is there any post processing to the questions? I'm just curious about the post event part. Yes. So at the moment, we do two things. First, if we're using Myro in those Myro-moderated meetings, we manually go over the Slido questions and unify them and move them into an area assorted Slido questions on Myro, whether they're answered or not. And it's just for bookkeeping, but also important because people will know later when they get this beautifully printed PDF or they don't, they just look it online. They will see that their Slido questions are there after all. And so it's mostly just for accountability. Or I do an Excel export. And I just write a small program that translates those spreadsheets into markdown so that it can be appended to the end of the transcript. And then the end of transcript because we allow for 10 working days for everybody to edit over it. Something that can be answered asynchronously can then be taken care of just by editing and moving to that part of the transcript. And I understand this is very abstract. So I'm going to paste you an example because even I myself wouldn't understand what I'm saying without an example. Right. And so here is how it looks like. Right here. Can you see the Zoom questions? I can see the latest link that I can see. Oh no, it's arrived. Sorry, I've got it. Right. So as you can see, this is a huge transcript with huge amount of meeting. And if you scroll up a little bit, you will see that I declare the end of the meeting, which is here. But then after that, you will see a few speakers with the name Slido comment. Yes. Right. So whatever has transpired before is an open meeting in social innovation portfolio. And what's after this line is the Slido question initially unanswered. But then various ministries may after the fact take 10 working days to get a written answer and we publish it together with the transcript. So that's the other way of handling this. This is fascinating. So when I click on link in context, that takes me to the original question or the comment that was made. Right. Yes, exactly. Yes. Okay. Okay. And then it's right. So it's also tracked from the transcript because we're first we're working on the technology to generate my row ish, my map from the transcript itself. But something else is this one. If you open it, I think it's bilingual in this interface, you can switch on the right top corner. It's not going to help you a lot because the question themselves are in Chinese, but I guess you can Google translate that. But then all the Slido question that are answered will be moved into the solved category here as well. And so people who have asked those questions can track it afterwards. Yes. And you built this yourself. Is that right? No, it was a contractor by us. Okay. Oh, this is so good. This is Slido really using it in a cross-ministerial governance context. Yes. I think you build better reporting features than we offer to be honest with you. This is much better than we have currently. Okay. I'm happy to clarify. I'm afraid we will have to do that. This is very good. Thank you for sharing this with me. This is really interesting. Just to summarize, there are two primary reasons why we do this. It's accountability, but it's also making sure that people who attend the meeting, or even those who didn't attend the meeting, can actually read through the questions and comments to understand what decisions were made, perhaps, like this is in a nutshell. Is this helping you make decisions too? Yes, on a certain level. Yeah, because I can always use full-text search to find out whether some question is frequently asked, and not only myself, but people can proactively find it, because say it and the SI platform are very discoverable, certainly more so in an SEO sense than individual Slido questions. And so people can just use their engine and find their questions previously asked, and ask a deeper question next time instead of studying from scratch. So that's the main game. The other game is that because we make sure that all the relevant ministries go through the transcript, because they don't want to publish anything untoward, so they have to check it anyway. And so it makes sure that anything is read twice, both by the people sent by the ministry to the open meeting. But also by the people working at desk or even higher level officials, when they go through the transcript, which include a Slido question, that they may want to answer publicly. And so it's not only accountability, but it's also getting the ministries in the same page, so to speak, about what each ministry think of the same question, so that they don't fight with themselves or even if they do in a more efficient way. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Excellent. It's a lot to process because this is so good. But that's a good thing. So thank you for sharing these insights with me. Cool. So we have 10 minutes left, but I'm happy to stay on the call even longer. I would love to hear. You did mention you have a feature request very briefly. I'm sure there's more of it. So if you can please share with me. I'm really very intently to what we have to say. It's a simple feature request is just to make sure that a poll feature has a minimum vote. And that's it. Can you maybe elaborate, please? Right. So for example, if we have five candidates to select from, sometimes we want to say that each person who votes must vote three or more votes. And currently in the poll feature, you can set a maximum, but not the minimum. The minimum is by default one. And so there really is no way to dial it up. And so we resorted to pretty creative ways. For example, when we have to ask people to vote for two votes out of three options, we will set up four options, single choice. That's A plus B, A plus D, B plus D, and A plus B plus D. And that's actually kind of confusing. So that would be, it would be nice to add it back. Yeah. Do you see who'd show me in your account? Would that be okay? Of course, not a problem. So let me just open one recent example where I did that and do a share screen if that's okay with you. Yes, thank you. So we have a lot of monthly meetings. I think the latest one is this one. It's the same anyway. And let me share my Slido management screen. I think it's this one. Can you see it? No, not yet. It's going to come through. Oh, no, it's coming. Okay. It's on now. Okay. Yes. So we have three options and we call them three, four and five for weird reasons. Just bear with me. And then we want, actually, it's a kind of rule for each participating ministry to vote for at least two out of three. But because there is no minimum vote feature, at least not far as I can see. For example, here is multiple choice, right? And here is allow attendee and this is limit max. But we don't have a limit minimum. Yeah, I understand now. Right. And so we'll have to work around it by saying you vote one out of four, but these are a combination and voting rate we have to manually add like this, this and this together to get the voting rate for the option three. Yes, I understand what you mean now. Okay. Okay. This makes sense. You simply don't want people to not select one if they are supposed to select two in other words. Exactly. And yes, right. So it paves the way for more advanced voting methods. But that's the gist of it. Yes. Right. I apologize if you've mentioned this already, but what's the, what, what do you guys vote on typically? What's the topic? What's the decision? The topic from the petition is due for a collaboration meeting. Because collaboration meeting, open meetings take time to prepare. Every month we can only select two out of potentially three or four or five or six candidates. But if it's selecting two, we really want people to vote the two that they want to be scheduled in instead of just one, because that creates a kind of perverse voting pattern. But we found that voting two is the right thing to do. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, okay, that makes sense. Very interesting. Okay. It's an English use case. I'm not saying this is universally useful. Yeah. I personally haven't heard this before, but that doesn't mean it's not common. Not everyone raises feature requests to us. So I think this, but what you're explaining and how you think about it, it makes sense. And I agree that that could be one of the features. I think that could be quite helpful. Is there anything else that you can think of that would kind of make your life easier in spite of maybe just having the question only feature somehow portable to Mandarin? That would be super helpful. I'm happy to help with the algorithm, actually. Okay. Okay. Actually have the API encoded myself. I bet you can. Is that do you mean the translation of the questions from English to Mandarin? Is that what you mean? No. The translation would be useful, but not super useful. What I'm referring to is the Slido Labs comments filter. This one. Oh, right. Okay. Okay. I know what you mean. So the question written in Mandarin, I actually also filtered and stopped before they're, if they're comments only. Well, it says English only, right? So, I simply don't turn it the option on for Mandarin meanings. Yeah. Yes. I don't think it would work anyway, to be honest with you. So, yeah. But it's pretty useful in English only settings. Did you, when you say useful, can you perhaps explain what happened? I understand that it's supposed to stop questions, which are not questions, rather comments. Yes. Yeah. And that's precisely what it did. So, when I'm like moderating a panel discussion or things like that, and especially when it's live streamed, there are a lot of people who take advantage of Slido being anonymous and they being behind the screen, watching live stream. So, there really is no accountability, so to speak of. And sometimes there are just one single person that we don't know from where they really like to paste a lot of emoji and things like that. But they usually go away when they see that they're blocked by the non-question filter. And, but most of the people, they post questions and we don't want to manually moderate each one, because as I said, it reduced the incentives. So, I think that's the best thing for such settings. And if it's available in Mandarin, that's very useful. I understand. Wonderful. Anything else? That's all from me. Okay. Okay. Thank you for your time. I kind of ran out of questions. I think this is all I wanted to cover. Better understand your setup also, the use case and how you utilize Slido. So, this has been very helpful. So, thank you very much for your time. I think, I think I have one more question, because we have three minutes if that's okay. Yes, of course. So, I know you mentioned that you have no other feature request, but I'm more interested in your role as a solo presenter. So, one person on stage at the lecture, giving the lecture and presenting content with the questions. Yeah. It's perfect. Yeah. Oh, it's perfect. Okay. Because I wanted to ask you about that. If there's anything we can do from the perspective of a solo presenter that would make your life easier and the management and everything around that? As a solo presenter, if I'm away from my iPad, then the switcher, of course, very useful. But because I'm almost exclusively using my iPad, using Apple Pencil, a lot of your desktop oriented feature, a lab or not, is simply not very pertinent to my use case, because I'm always controlling directly under present mode. Yes. So, any control I can have on present mode is sufficient, and I only have two views, which is present mode, Slido, and if I swipe the good notes, which is my presentation, and another swipe, I'm back to Slido. So, I really don't need a switcher, so to speak. And I don't usually use my phone, except maybe as a alternate view to Slido, but that's it. And I don't really don't use the phone for control. And so, because of that, I think I can't really access the moderation interface easily without distracting the audience, because I have to check my phone then. And as a solo presenter, I think having the common filter filtering out non-questions is perfect. And I really don't have anything to ask when it's English only. When it's Mandarin, of course, I have to manually kind of play, I don't know what's the English name of that, hitting some hedgehog or whatever, groundhog thing, based on the kind of recent questions, but that's okay. Yeah. Okay, okay, I understand. Okay, that makes sense. Okay, wonderful. Audrey, thank you so much for your time. So, if that's okay, I'm going to stop the recording now. I took all the links from the, so I'm going to stop it now.