 It's just about five o'clock, and we're going to get started here shortly. My name is Tim Braylund, and I'm the chair of the House Energy and Technology Committee, all of which you have here. We have one member, sorry, who's missing tonight, but so there are eight of us. We usually have nine. So I want to thank you all for showing up on what is probably the nicest day of the year. I had asked the Sergeant and Arms if we could hold this on the front lawn and just hold them down. So it's never in the darkest room in the capital today. So as you know, what we're here to discuss today and to hear from you about is our three bills that are before the House of Representatives right now. H51, H175, and H214, which generally how I would describe them are different flavors of how we might address or restrict fossil fuel infrastructure development in the state of Vermont. Our committee has taken testimony from about a dozen witnesses in recent weeks. Some attorneys who have been involved in the Vermont gas case. The attorneys who had drafted these bills in the legislature. We've heard from folks who represented the fossil fuel industry from the climate action activists. And as I said, about a dozen people so far. Very specifically, I want to state that we're holding today's hearing to get members of the public and essentially a forum to speak to this committee. Understanding that you might not be able to get to the State House. Most of the work we do in the State House is between the hours of 9 and 5. And knowing that most people and most students particularly can't get to the State House then is why we're doing this hearing in the evening. The most important part about this hearing for me and to my committee is to hear from members of the public about this issue. To that, in that regard, I wanted to mention we're probably going to have time for about 60 people to test the bug over the next two hours. We've had, at last, about 2,000 people offer written testimony, which you can do by emailing our committee clerk. Or I'll give you the email address right now. You can send written testimony at leg.state.btw s. And that is something that we will post to our committee website. And so whether you're not interested in testifying today or because you only have two minutes and you have more to say, if you'd like to offer testimony, I would encourage you to offer that. That is something that members of our committee will read. And then finally, in order to ensure that we are able to hear from as many witnesses as possible in the next two hours, we have rules for kind of procedure for public hearings in the State House. How we're going to operate over the next couple hours is Representative Sebelia has the list of names for people who signed in and want to testify. We have two lists, those who are interested in speaking in favor of the legislation that is before the House right now and a list of people who are, who are opposed to that legislation. We will go back and forth between those two lists until we've run out of names on one list and then just continue with the other list. And as I said, we're hopeful to get to, you know, up to 60 people over the next two hours. What we're going to do is Representative Sebelia will call two names, the person who is going to testify for two minutes and then the person who's on deck. We can come up and sit in the chair here and we'll rotate on that through the two hours. We have a time keeper, I don't know where Sarah is, but we have a time keeper. So our time keeper is on this screen right here. And Sarah Tewsbury, who's our committee assistant, will be keeping time. I don't know how loud the bell is. It went two minutes lapses, but you'll know when your time is up. And I appreciate that people could stick to their time. There are no signs or banners loud in the room that I know people were asked to leave those in the hall. So I appreciate you abiding with that. We'd also ask that there be no disruptions in the hearing and to respect the people who are offering testimony. No cheering, no clapping, no kissing, no bowing, whether you agree with or disagree with people who are testifying. The point is that we want people to feel safe here and not intimidated by folks who might not agree with them. So we appreciate your complying with that. So I think those are the rules of the road. Representative Sebelia, if you want to call that. The other thing I just want to mention briefly. Orca media is televising this live. If there are folks who are not able to fit in this room and there's a live streaming going on right now in the cafeteria, or if someone feels they need to leave and it gets too stuffy in here for you, whatever, you're welcome to go up in the cafeteria and watch it here in the live. Thank you. Okay, first up we will have Julie Musuga from Burlington and On Deck is Jordan Angra from Johnson Vermont. My name is Julie Musuga and I support the bills before you. I organize fossil fuel resistance with 350 Vermont, a job which like the fossil fuel industry should have been obsolete decades ago. I'll start with a happy belated birthday to Vermont Gas' pipeline extension which just turned two last week. A lot has happened in this project's lifetime as it forced its way through the state with threats of eminent domain. 41 miles of haphazard construction that is now subject to an expanding construction investigation which may cause it to shut down entirely. The price tag has nearly doubled to $165 million, which adjusted for the rate payer cap comes to around $50,000 per customer. Good thing it wasn't federally regulated or the funding scheme would have been deemed illegal. But let's go beyond the federal. Let's talk global. I constantly hear how Vermont has such a small footprint compared to the rest of the country. True, but does that recuse us from taking action? Fracking is banned in Vermont. We ethically know the implications. The lives cut short or never brought into this world at all. But importing fracked gas seems to be okay with us. How many miles in degrees of separation does it take before we forget what we're doing? Why should it matter if it comes from eight miles away or 8,700 as it currently does? Still, the industry promises to save us with minuscule amounts of so-called renewable natural gas. I sat down with the CEO of Vermont Gas and Representative Cordis, who said, I want to be able to tell my grandchildren and yours that we did everything we could to stop greenhouse gases from ruining their future. Do you feel the same? The CEO's demeanor shifted. I believe he knows fracked gas is not a solution to the climate crisis that we're in. If you're here, Vermont Gas, I invite you for a second time to join us in this movement. We welcome you. Thank you, legislators, for having the courage to seek elected office. And please use the power that you wield to take up these bills immediately next session. Andrew and... Hi, my name is Will. I'm from Johnson, Vermont. I'll try to be good with my time here. It's terribly manned out, but many would argue that social responsibility for the environment needs to be represented by policy put forth by our state's legislature. Our state takes tremendous pride in our environment, natural resources, and track records for sustainability initiatives. While we have the lowest carbon emissions per capita out of any state in the nation, one can make the argument that this isn't an excuse to become complacent. Carbon emissions in our state are rising, and we need to recognize that efforts should be put into lowering emissions and that fossil fuels are inevitably finite. Other concerns include the potential consequences of gas leaks, contaminated waterways, and abuses related to eminent domain. These concerns are valid, and they need to be paid attention to. However, Vermont is already one of the most environmental and progressive states in the nation. Why is there so much emphasis on such a radical proposal that would restrict new infrastructure? There are many concerns and criticisms about natural gas, but one cannot deny that it's an affordable and innovative source of energy. Let's not forget that H51 allowed for existing natural gas infrastructure to exist, which is solely developed in the western border of our state and primarily in Chippin County. If Chippin County is reaping the rewards of natural gas, why propones that H51 is so eager to deny our rural communities of that privilege, especially when they would benefit the most from the affordable energy, economic growth, and job development that it would likely bring? The people are right to be skeptical about any legislation that has a profound effect on the state and the people who live here, and some of these people are right to be concerned with climate change and environmental issues. Regardless of intent, each new piece of legislation adds another layer of complexity and its own set of challenges. A bill that restricts new fossil fuel infrastructure is no exception. If we acknowledge that Vermont isn't pursuing nuclear, that we aren't open to new fossil fuel infrastructure, all the while recognizing that we still need energy, what is the alternative? This would leave us with renewables such as wind, solar, hydro, biomass, geothermal, and a few others that have certainly missed. While that sounds appealing to me, I'm not convinced that going 100% renewable would physically replace fossil fuels. All renewables combined, it would still be challenging and perhaps impossible to match the efficiency or power output of nuclear, petroleum, or natural gas. I'll try to finish up quickly. So I'll ask the question. Propones of the measure wish to move away from fossil fuels, why not first develop a sufficient renewables infrastructure before prohibiting new fossil fuel infrastructure? Hello, I'm Elizabeth Champagne, a writer from St. John'sbury. Hello, I'm Elizabeth Champagne, a writer from St. John'sbury. Nature is not, as the economists record it, any part of the calculation of profit and loss. It's an externality. Yet, at this moment, we must consider that going on battering and impoverishing this earth is a tremendous mistake. It's time that we drop our human performance as not sees. That's a hyphenated word. Not seeing ourselves as belonging to this earth, not loving it, not recognizing as all our relations, each and every presencing nature, as did the people from whom the Europeans seize this land. As not sees, and I thank author Daniel Aceros for coining the term, we divorce ourselves from the natural world at our peril. C.S. Lewis called modern people men without chests, divorced by tenants of modernity that cut off an honor of place, of loving one's own place. And this will not serve us. We need to know our lives especially in relationship to our land and water, air and sunshine. It's time to see that our presence on earth is only made possible by these. And, most of all, we need to remember, as Antoine de Saint-Exupéry pointed out, that what is essential we see only with the heart? I'm Gilbert from Berrytown, and I'm Justice Lucie Gluckman Brown. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for letting me have the opportunity to speak. My name is Ed Gilbert Jr. I am from Berrytown, just outside of Berry. I would like to change the narrative in the extent of offering the private sector solutions that are out there to presently address this climate change initiative, or this future reaching on a climate change goal. Presently, Vermont is the smallest carbon footprint state in the country. Since they shut down Vermont Yankee, they have seen an increase in emissions. But rather than cutting the private sector out of the solution process, I feel there should be more brought to the table and more awareness of the technologies and companies that are out there. I'm just going to use one example. Renewalogy is reverse engineering plastics into either diesel fuels, natural gas, methane gas, even petrol fuels. And I realize that there just seems to be a labeling or a false narrative of this being dirty fuels and it's not offering a solution. I just feel basing everything or trying to bend an infrastructure costing jobs that Vermont cannot lose at this present time off of a future projection of a possibility would be a big mistake. Especially when you're cutting out the private sector solutions that are out there presently. They're actually providing actual solutions. They're actually removing these plastics out of landfills, out of our waters. The seeping process that pollute our waters, they're causing some of the blue toxic algae plumes up in Lake Champlain. Versus trying to cut people out of the conversation, you should be definitely allowing people that are providing solutions, providing jobs while addressing this actual climate change apocalypse that everybody's kind of generating fear off of. Rather than generating fear, I feel there should be more opportunity to be brought to the conversation. Thank you ladies and gentlemen for giving me that opportunity. Next up is Lucy Gluck. And I'll be back with Brian from the Forest from Lewis and Vermont. Hi, I'm Lucy Gluck from Burlington. I grew up in Vermont. It's my life here in this gorgeous state. I'm really proud and grateful to live in such a beautiful place. I love our snow, our maple syrup, our lakes and rivers, our birds and bears, and our lilacs, which are coming soon. This is a critical moment in time where we all need to ask ourselves a very serious question. What can I do right now to protect our environment and to make sure we leave a livable planet for future generations? There's no time to waste. Everywhere I look, there are signs of intense climate change. The waters are rising and we can do something about it. I work for a local solar company and talk to Vermonters every day who are ready to invest in clean energy. It's a fantastic job. They're choosing to buy solar panels that we install on their roof or near their house on the ground. These Vermonters end up saving money on their electric bills and saving the planet at the same time. It's a win-win situation. There are huge opportunities to expand renewable energy in Vermont so that we can be a part of the solution and meet our Vermont clean energy and carbon emission goals. Doing this work helps me sleep better at night knowing I'm part of the solution. It's time to stop putting money into expanding pipelines that carry fracked natural gas. These have no place in Vermont. Instead, we need to increase our investments in clean renewable energy and energy efficiency. We must stop investing in fossil fuel infrastructure if Vermont is to meet its commitments to clean energy and reduced climate emissions. Although natural gas has been marketed as the clean fossil fuel, recent studies have proven that it has a warming impact that is many times higher, pound for pound, than CO2. In addition, the fracking used to extract natural gas can help devastating environmental impacts. We need to be moving towards climate solutions by investing in advanced renewable energy infrastructure not continuing the status quo. It takes courage to move in this new direction to get a cleaner and safer planet. I believe you have the courage and commitment to protect Vermont, so please support all the bills H51, H175, and H214. Thank you so much. Next up is mine for us. The next object is Lisa. Good afternoon. I'm Brian Farrs, I live in Williston. I'd like to thank the committee for all those here and the opportunity to speak this afternoon. I'm here to urge you to pass H51, a ban on new fossil fuel infrastructure in Vermont. The Comprehensive Energy Plan was passed in 2016. It's only had 34 years to accomplish the goal of switching from fossil fuels to renewables. Just last fall, the IPCC reported cut that time to 12 years. It kept the can of the climate change down and over 50 years, and that way it had only 12 left. You no longer have an option. You no longer fabricate on this issue. You no longer let fossil fuel come and spread the pollution and heat up our planet. Even when disguised as, quote, natural gas, a, quote, transition fuel, passing H51 will signal that we as a state are seriously about climate change while no one will let fossil fuel come and exclude our health, threaten our future and profit our expense. It will protect our children and grandchildren. Lisa Snedner and object is J.P.P.Dog. Hi, I'm Lisa Skidner. I've spent my whole life in Vermont in a group of mobiliars. I'm a student at Middlebury College and I guess I'm just going to start being blunt with this. Most of the people here, most of your colleagues, most of the people in the room are probably going to be dead before. We feel the worst of this. We know we have 11 years to combat this. ICC has told us this. It's completely unacceptable for Vermont to continue down a road where they're encouraging new natural gas and cracking fossil fuel infrastructure. So for the state to do the only responsible things, I just support H51, H75, no-new fossil fuel infrastructure and absolutely no habitat demand. That's just unacceptable that the state would allow people's land to be stolen by corporations who want to pollute our land, our atmosphere, and reduce the lives and livelihood of myself, my children, people down the line. I mean, on the front steps of the state house, we've got statue of Ethan Allen. He has started because his land was stolen. It's absolutely hypocritical for the state to be holding up that idea while also allowing my land to be potentially stolen in a time when Vermont is rapidly losing young people. This is not going to encourage new growth in the state. It's taking short-term gains for corporations, the fossil fuel economy, the richest office in the world, completely irresponsibly ruining our planet, and Vermont can move forward seeing this with civil unions. We've made the right choice in the past. Do it again. Thank you. My name is JT Dodge. I stood up the No Carbon Tax Vermont Group. I'm here. So as far as imminent domain goes, I'm going to say that if no imminent domain for one thing, no imminent domain for anything, that's where I stand. So H51 proposes to prohibit Vermont from constructing fossil fuel infrastructure. We can't afford to ban fuels based on the existence of greenhouse gases. Vermont produces 0.01% of the overall country's greenhouse gas emissions. Sure, our carbon emissions have gone up since 2013 when we shut down Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant in Vernon. What did we expect? However, we remain at 0.01% gradually increasing. But it's still very low when we look at the respective to the rest of the states. These types of proposals that ban Vermont's fuel choices are aggressive and extreme. They present false urgency. Some legislatures have suggested human extinction is on the near horizon. We hear about weatherization as a solution to converting to less common, less tested fuel and service scenarios. The legislative climate caucus will say the very poor will receive tax and fee subsidies. This false urgency can be increased by simply ramping up the climate catastrophe rhetoric. Meanwhile, the middle and lower classes will pay more and more for transportation to drive to work and heating fuel, which are costs they already struggle to control. I sense a very little care and concern for Vermont's citizens in this discussion. The legislative proposers of these carbon tax scheme bills spend more time concerned with the world's welfare than the welfare of the 600,000-plus individuals counting on them in Vermont right here right now. Yes, this is a concern, but this is not a Vermont emergency and Vermont cannot change the environment. Thank you. Hi, my name is Sophie, I'm an ardent student in Vermont Law School in the Vermont Pealier, and I'm here to speak in favor of H51 and the other bills for both bills and fossil fuel infrastructure. So I agree with the three stated purposes of the bill, and I'm not going to address the need to reduce our consumption and emission of fossil fuels. I think that's a given. Vermont already has these things in statute. So I want to specifically address the testimony that you and I heard in your committee last week from the fuel dealers. Their testimony moved me. My family runs a third generation, small business, and I have no doubt that these businesses are providing good jobs and contributing to the economy and providing any good service to any of their customers, their hard-working people. We're the same. I get that. So 15 years ago, our businesses in the ag and aquafuel sector we sell farm seed. We sell a lot of the small dealers around us. We've eaten up by ag and chemical giants like Monsanto, Syngenta. We also saw this emerging trend of organic farm seed. So we diversified our business. We transitioned our business. We built an organic warehouse. We hired organic agronomists. We could carry that product line. We started selling cover crops and our CS mixes. We are doing better than ever. And I just want to say I don't think it's the legislature's job to save industries from having to adapt to changing markets. I think that's what markets are about. And Vermont has climate goals. You know, we're not reaching them, but we have greenhouse gas reduction targets. In statute, they require action. These bills are part of that action. These actions are going to have market effects. No doubt. And I just hope that these businesses that I believe, I know they are pillars of their communities and I don't think they're the bad guys. I don't think we should have that in their narrative going on in the discussion. But I hope that they can continue to provide a useful service and diversify so they can continue operating in a clean energy economy. Except as Patrick Flood, Good afternoon. Thanks for the opportunity to speak to the committee. My name is Patrick. I'm here to communicate several thoughts. The first is that I support these bills. If we can't even draw a line in the sand and say enough is enough and not expand what is actually destroying our world then I think all is lost. The idea of limiting fossil fuel when research means a no-brainer. But I think we're having the wrong conversation, honestly. Vermont has really not made that much progress on addressing its carbon emissions problem. In spite of all the talk, all the controversy, all the plans, all the money, we are still at the same carbon level that we were at in 1990. We are not, I think, meeting our responsibility to our kids and our grandchildren. I'd like to second the notion of the unperson that spoke just a few minutes ago. A lot of us are going to be gone. We're not going to live through this. We are not going to have to deal with the traumatic things that are coming their way. They're going to have to deal with it. They're going to have to pay for it. It's going to be extremely expensive. And so I don't believe that we are meeting our responsibility as parents and as adults more and doing it quickly. So what I think we should be having is a comprehensive discussion and a comprehensive plan to address climate change and carbon emissions. That's what we should be talking about. And I'd like to suggest that it's not impossible to pay for it. Most of the people in the room may or may not know, but the Trump tax bill resulted in the top 20% of Vermont taxpayers getting a total of $350 million tax break. $350 million that they're not paying any longer. So we have a choice. We can either continue to do very little and leave the mess to our children for them to pay and for them to deal with, which I think is immoral. Or we can do what's right and we can act now. My name is Jason Kaiser. I have a master's degree in meteorology. I support the bills before you. It is immoral imperative. I'd even define it as a common good to strive for policies and actions that lower our collective greenhouse gas emissions. Building any new fossil fuel infrastructure by definition instead increases the state's emissions of greenhouse gases. As it is a fact that methane, 86 times more potent to trap and heat over 20 years than carbon dioxide, leaks from natural gas infrastructure. The following from the Union of Concerned Scientists speaks to one of the reasons in the bill for banning new fossil fuel infrastructure. If natural gas use continues to grow, greater investment in fossil fuel infrastructure, including pipeline, processing, and storage facilities will be required. Pipelines typically have a physically useful life of 50 to 100 years and are financed for as long as 40 years. Investing in large amounts of infrastructure carries risk. As increasing public awareness of the dangers of climate change lead to increasing political pressure to cut carbon emissions, much of this costly infrastructure may have to be abandoned long before it ends its useful life. In the parlance of Wall Street, these pipelines and other facilities will become stranded assets. When sources of heating, like cold climate heat pumps, are powered by renewable energy, consumers are not subjected to fuel price volatility. In contrast, natural gas prices are difficult to lock in for any significant duration. For example, during the January 2014 polar vortex, average delivered natural gas prices spiked from $35 to $40 million per British thermal units in the northeast. 10 to 12 times higher than average prices for the prior solar years. Finally, increasing our alliance on natural gas as a source of heating could delay the deployment and I would also say jobs found in renewable energy like cold climate heat pumps powered by hydro solar and wind, putting us at greater risk of failing to meet the level of emissions needed to avoid the worst consequences of climate change. Thank you. My name is Beth Thompson and I live in Dandy, way down in Rutland County. I've been here before at other public hearings and rallies and protests trying to make the case for what I believe are the only rational steps and possible solutions to our human-made climate crisis. Namely, to do the radical thing, the hard thing, the not-business-as-usual thing. I've been doing this for the past eight years. You might think a person would be wary of it and you would be right. But I'm here again today with renewed hope because you, our Vermont legislators, appear to be waking up, paying attention and becoming willing to do the radical thing, the hard thing, and the no-longer-business-as-usual thing. I'll let others give you all the facts about methane emissions, about fracking, about how natural gas is not a bridge fuel, about potential damages to Vermont's natural resources and safety violations in the installation of the most recent natural gas buildout here, and about Vermont's citizens who have already suffered the duress and indignity of having to give up their homes to a pushy, obfuscating private company which managed to gain the right and privilege to threaten them with eminent domain proceedings. I'll let others address those things and I will simply say this. We are almost out of time. We can no longer afford to think inside the box and calculate cost benefits in the usual way. The bottom line is no longer simply an economic one. The bottom line now involves embracing the horrible reality of the science and doing a complete about face in our thinking and our behavior in order to change the predictable outcomes or at least stem the tide. It means not exceeding to fossil fuel companies' advocacy for what they say we need. Believe me, theirs is not an altruistic mission. It's all about profit. What we do here in Vermont does matter, not just in actual emissions reductions we might and must achieve, but also in the effect we can have on the global shift in behavior and economic systems that need to take place to save our species. We must embrace 21st century technology and practices and let go of 21st century technology and practices and let go of 20th century status club logic. Please ban new fossil fuel infrastructure. I was Katie Conkannon and on debt is Isaac Danilov from Middlebury. A couple weeks ago the salamanders started migrating. On a Friday night we went out and helped them cross a busy road. The different species have different personalities. The redbacks are fast and squirmy and the more toes let you pick them up by their bellies. The salamanders later eggs in vernal pools that are dependent on a delicate balance of snow, precipitation and evaporation for conditions that allow them to survive each year. They and the salamanders are in increasing danger from the warming effects of climate change. Later that week out of panel with Bill McKibbin and a room full of students who were told that a quarter of us would probably die because of famines caused by climate change. I hear things and read things like this all the time. I didn't cry. But that night I texted my dad a picture of a salamander trying to crawl up my sleeve and he texted back he's trying to hitch a safe ride and I put my head in my hands and sobbed because I thought about what I would be doing in 40 years if I was still alive and I imagined there would be a moment when all the salamanders had quietly gone away. And I'm telling you this because there are people dying right now for rising seas and air quality violations and pollution and fire and no one seems to care so I'm talking about salamanders. When it comes to fossil fuel infrastructure there is no reason that is valid anymore. No single excuse that hasn't already been made. In his essay about dying Scott Russell Sanders asked the question how can our hearts be large enough for heaven if they are not large enough for earth? I support those age 51, age 175, age 224 and I beg you to do the same. Hello, my name is Isaac Danieloff and I'm a student at Middlebury College. I grew up in rural Pennsylvania where my family and neighbors were always environmentally minded. This rubbed off on me and I went about much of my life thinking that having this mindset of doing occasional trash pickups would make the world stay as beautiful as the bubbling streams and bribery forests around my house. But in the past couple of years especially coming here to Middlebury hasn't been exposed to a more global perspective. I've seen how these anthropological systems are having negative effects on the environment and I've realized that everything isn't just sunshine and rainbows, it's quite the opposite. So from experience at home I know how it feels to have pipelines for beloved local natural wonders. I know what it feels like to have our land and water quality threatened by proposed pipelines. It's terrifying. Now living in Middlebury and in Vermont as a whole I don't want to see this happen to my new home. I want large scale fossil fuel infrastructure to be banned through bill age 51. I want the ability of companies to strip my neighbor's lands in order to build this infrastructure banned through 175. And I want everyone to be able to rest easy knowing that they have a safe reliable source of drinking water through bill age 245. Thank you. Good evening. My name is Daniel Batten. I live in Bristol with my wife and 12 year old daughter. I wish to acknowledge that my testimony is occurring at occupied Indigenous land. Last year my family moved to Vermont from the Commonwealth of Virginia. Scientific reports and our own observations convinced us that the rural Virginia lifestyle we loved was rapidly disappearing due to climate change. We felt that shifting to a northern state in this decade would give us and particularly our daughter the opportunity to establish ourselves as residents and get ahead of the others who will not have as much luxury in future decades in choosing the terms of their migration. We chose Vermont because we sight and see this state as a beacon of hope for progressive leadership and environmental stewardship. When we first visited in 2017 we saw oceans of solar panels and we heard about how the state was doing things that seem almost impossible in Virginia. We sold our home, left our jobs, our friends and our family and have happily established a new life here. We are climate refugees. Many more of us are coming to Vermont in the years to come. I also come to you today as a local coordinator of Extinction Rebellion, the nonviolent climate movement that has captured the world's imagination and attention in the past week. I've never been much of an activist or a regular person who has come to see that those who are shaping public discourse cannot be trusted with the preservation of life on earth. In my role as XR coordinator I have traveled around the state and met many other regular people who are tired with leaders who do not act with urgency about the climate. These regular people understand that we must heed the calls to come together and save ourselves. I'm testifying today to urge you to support environmental leadership by supporting age 51, 175 and 214, not because I think your support will save us but because the time for excuses is over. The struggle to overthrow our life-denying systems has begun. Are you with us? Thank you. Hello, my name is Carrie Wader and I'm an environmental study student from the University of Vermont. I grew up in Holland, Massachusetts and just beyond the cheese of my childhood home runs the Tennessee Gas Pipeline. As a child the pipeline was a hiking trail through the woods. It was a place where my siblings and I would go to collect raspberries and explore the natural world. We didn't know that this hiking trail was a clearing made for the tiny fraction of an 11,000 mile plus pipeline standing from the Gulf Coast all the way to Massachusetts and beyond. The picture I had painted of the perfect hiking trail with soft grass lined with plump raspberries was a false superficial image of what really laid below our feet. Massachusetts retrieves more than half of its electricity from natural gas yet methane may be just as harmful if not worse for the environment as CO2. Fract gas produces large quantities of methane which has 84 times the warming potential of CO2 over a 20 year period. So why is it being presented as renewable and a bridge fuel? How can natural gas possibly be seen as a good investment when methane is the second highest contributor to climate change? Why not skip this so-called bridge fuel and invest in energy sources which actually have considerably lower or almost no warming potential? By utilizing natural gas we are simply replacing one dirty fuel with another. I fear that Vermont's energy fate will move in the same direction as Massachusetts if we don't act quickly. Presenting natural gas as a bridge fuel has blinded the world to the true effects it is having on the planet. Vermont has so much potential to bolster all years of renewable energy and serve as a model for the rest of the country. Additional redistribution of natural gas is an obvious step in the wrong direction. Don't leave this issue on the table for our children to deal with. I am here today to encourage you to please take up bills H51, H175 and H214 at the immediate start of your next session. Thank you. My name is Julie Kep and I'm a 20-year-old sophomore at the University of Vermont. I'm out of my home state of New Jersey which is becoming known as the pipeline capital of the Northeast. Shows a maze of 10 pipelines zigzagging through the state. One being less than two miles from my house, flowing directly below Carnegie Lake where some of my best friends in high schools spend hours rowing on every week. Every time I drive to my grandmother's house outside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania I pass some of the hundreds of fracking wells in the state. Every time I get a glass of water I am reminded of the 271 water supplies of the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection deemed contaminated by fracking activities. Any time I go back home I worry about my grandmother's health knowing the dangers of living so close to fracking wells. Two years ago I came to Vermont for the first time. It has since become my second home and I was eager to escape all the worries I had about drinking clean water and being free of the health effects I fear for my friends and family at home. Today I am here in support of bills H-51, H-175 and H-214 to protect the things I love about the state but more importantly the well-being of its people and its neighbors. These bills all need to be addressed with urgency and efficiency. Any infrastructure that is built to bring fracked gas into the state thereby supporting the fracking industry is a large injustice to the future of our state. The new pipeline that has already have nine categories of alleged safety and construction violations and the possible expansion of it is a clear threat to Vermont environment as well as its citizens. The University of Pennsylvania and Columbia University have both found higher risk of heart conditions, neurological illnesses and low birth rates and people living close to fracking sites. While there is no fracking in Vermont we are responsible for any health effects or deaths because of the demand that any new pipelines would cause. I don't want a map of Vermont to look like a zigzag of pipelines but until something is done to prevent new pipelines the fear of toxic lakes and air would be carried with the citizens of the state. My name is Arthur Blackhawk I am a state employee and served the state for over 20 years. I'm here not to speak to your heads I'm here to speak to your hearts. We live on an occupied land in Dogeville which is the land of the Unackie. Life is precious life is a gift life is a miracle everything we see we hear, we smell, we feel all the senses around us are a miracle Mother Earth gives us life feeds us glimpses us shelters us she nurtures us she and she alone has born all of us. There is no planet beyond here we are drawn upon this beautiful blue marble of goddess flying through space at approximately 67,000 miles an hour everything we experience we perceive is a miracle we humans are traveling in space now seeking life in all forms of life due to its priority how do we treat that which gives us life what relationship do we have to Mother Earth Mother Earth who has provided life to countless generations of our ancestors and what about the life of our children and our grandchildren and those still to come we do not inherit this earth from our grandparents this is loaned to us by our grandchildren what will future generations and histories say about you and I and what we have done in our time that will impact their future their life life is precious life is a gift and I'll close in words of Chief Seattle this we know the earth does not belong to man man belongs to the earth all things are connected like the blood that unites us all man did not weave the web of life he is merely a strand in it whatever he does to the web he does to himself support this bill I'm a 21 year old environmental study student at the University of Vermont I'm here to talk about the importance of passing the H51 bill which would put a ban on any new large scale of fossil fuel infrastructure in Vermont I'm also here because I'm angry I'm frustrated and I'm confused day after day I sit in my environmental studies classes and learn about what's wrong with the world whether it's about the ecological disaster of algae blooms in Lake Champlain or that former oil and coal lobbyists are now the ones protecting our environment in public lands I've grown tired of learning about why the health of our planet is in a critical state I know why it's because people are afraid of change but we need change it's in my seat 20 years from now to learn not about what's wrong with the world but about how we are taking action to make this change fossil fuel infrastructure is not safe Vermont has a two year old pipeline that was heavily investigated after a report was released on the natural gas pipeline explosion in Massachusetts last year this explosion destroyed five homes injured 21 people and killed one person the pipeline in Vermont was discovered to have violations ranging from a lack of documentation to missing parts of the infrastructure itself this infrastructure also has a huge impact on the warming of our planet some fossil fuel companies say that fracked gas is better for the environment than oil or coal because it has less of a carbon footprint this may be true but this argument is like saying your house being destroyed by a flood is better than it being destroyed by a fire the damage done may be different but either way you're left without a home Vermont is my home and I want my home to be safe and healthy passing the H51 bill will not only help us reach Vermont's goal of being 90% renewable by 2050 but it will also push us into a new way of thinking about where our energy comes from some day we need to drastically change the way we live if we want our planet to survive although some day is no longer years from now months from now or tomorrow some day is today thank you my name is Rebekah Peretzky I'm 19 years old from Massachusetts I'm passionate about the environment mainly the wildlife that inhabits it and I've always dreamt of being a photojournalist so I can travel to places seemingly untouched by man to document the stories of the wildlife there but that would probably remain a dream to me in a fantasy to my children this is because climate change has no boundaries it reaches everyone everywhere the pressures people are putting on our planet have led us into the sixth mass extinction human-induced climate change is at the forefront of this crisis and it scares me that people do not understand the reality of this threat this is why I moved to Vermont I wanted to be in a place that recognizes the threats that our planet faces and makes efforts to mitigate human pressures on the environment when my fears for our planet grew and after moving to Vermont our planet is still a lab even though it is one of the largest contributing factors to climate change it may supply jobs but that will matter in 50 years when life is struggling to survive according to Vermont Digger the state's latest greenhouse gas data shows that emissions have gone up each year for the past four years even though by law Vermont is required by 2028 to reduce greenhouse gas emissions to 50% of what emissions were in 1990 this means that Vermont vowed to reduce the release of emissions contributing to the deaths of innocent animals and people who are disproportionately affected by climate change but they are failing to do so if you don't want to feel responsible for the deaths of millions then passing bill H51 would put a ban on any new large-scale fossil fuel infrastructure in Vermont and bill H175 would put a ban on the use of eminent domain to condemn land to construct fossil fuel infrastructure this would also decrease natural gas usage which releases methane in the times more than global warming potential of carbon dioxide don't be the reason why the only way my children would be able to see a polar bear is in their history textbooks don't be the reason why they won't know what it's like to breathe fresh air without a mask don't be the reason why I'm scared for the future curbing or banning the construction of any new fossil fuel infrastructure in Vermont is the best thing that could be done right now to sustain life for the future thank you my name is Rick Barstow I'm from the Little Village of Ataman and I appreciate this opportunity I'd like to start by saying that you know I really love living in this state I've been a sugar maker from the early 70's so I've seen the results of climate change in that time period and how the season has changed shifted from late March and mostly in April to often in February anyway I think it's also easy to see in this state that it's a small state what difference can be made in terms of the magnitude of the problem that we face and I think we have been fortunate that we have been able to lead in other issues in the past that make a difference in other states to move on this issue the IPCC report which others have referenced that came out this last fall is really way behind it's based on information that's several years old already so that's not even current to what's happening things are happening at a much faster pace than we realize in terms of glaciers melting at a rapid rate and they feed rivers that feed water for people and irrigation for agriculture it's going to cause huge disruption when these start to go down we have as indigenous folks pointed out obligations to not only past generations future generations in the planet itself to do the best we can in terms of mitigating these things climate change so I would urge if the time is now to draw a line in the sand to say no more positive olympic structure we need to shift away from that as rapidly as possible thank you thank you can I attempt this Rachel Smoother can you hear me thank you for listening to my best one I've come to Montpelier today to support H51 H175 and H214 H175 is the bill my husband Nate Palmer suggested to Barry Cortis thank you for that representative from Madison County I have been at the heart of the eminent domain issue since January 18th 2013 when we got a phone call from a neighbor telling us we had better pay attention because there was a gas pipeline proposed through the heart of our farm eminent domain is a powerful weapon that the gas company uses and even though they say they won't use it unless they have to the threat is always there it is like the gas company comes into your house and puts a loaded gun on your kitchen table and tells you they won't use it unless they have to meaning of course that you can't walk away from the so-called negotiation you can't say no my husband and I fought the Addison natural gas project for many reasons not just because it was going to destroy the place we live and grow food and feel safe once we heard about the project we did our research and learned about all the ill effects methane has on our planet's climate and the environmental nightmare that is caused by fracking we also learned about the sketchy economics of the project and watched as Vermont gas lied its way into getting a certificate of public good and then eventually build a flood and dangerous pipeline our climate cannot wait there is no reason to allow a merchant of a fossil fuel to take land or threaten to take land from private citizens when the ultimate public good would be if they don't build the project at all please listen to the people here who speak such wisdom thank you David hi I'm Rachel smoker I am the co-director of an organization by a fuel watch that works internationally on climate change and land use issues and I've also been I have a PhD in biology and I have been a reviewer for the IPCC reports for the last few years I think you all know well that the problem of climate change is very very dire and we don't need to go into that but I'm going to talk more as a resident of Heinsberg having been at the front of opposition to the pipeline for the last several years and as you know there's now an independent investigation into the pipeline due to revelations that indicated multiple systemic violations lack of compliance with even the minimum federal standards for safety regulations and not to mention lack of compliance with the promises that were made about construction that were agreed under the certificate of public good that was granted for this pipeline in light of what we know now about climate change, about methane leakage from fossil fuel infrastructure and fossil and fracking it is really incorrect to consider fossil fuel infrastructure of any sort to be a public good we simply have to acknowledge that's the case others have already pointed out that methane leakage problems from fossil fuel and from fracking imminent domain is something that I think about a lot and because I have friends one who spoke before me and one who's speaking after me who have faced that and I have been friends with them and watched what that has meant to them personally to deal with that place they love imagine you have your beautiful home you have your beautiful gardens you have history there and the gas company or somebody comes along and says I'm sorry but you're going to have to have this piece of fossil fuel infrastructure go through the place that you love and you really don't have any choice about it unless you have tons and tons of money to hire a lawyer this infrastructure is not safe the pipeline hazardous material safety administration reports between 1999 and 2018 11,991 incidents 318 fatalities 1,304 injuries and resulted cost over 8 billion dollars from pipeline incidents that's money that could be very well used for making the essential transition to clean energy thank you next step is Nathan Palmer my name is Nathan Palmer I'm a land and a home in Moncton I'm a chairman of my town energy committee and I came up with the idea for H175 when I was at the last weekend conference because I could see a conflict between the state's goals beginning to 90% renewable energy by 2050 while at the same time our government allows utilities to seize private land for the build out of fossil fuel infrastructure any progress towards our state 9050 goal the town energy committee can possibly produce is wiped out when a fossil fuel project comes to town this is exactly what happened in Moncton and many other towns by supporting the use of eminent domain the state is essentially dropping up the fossil fuel industry which takes us in exactly the wrong direction to reach our state goal of 90% renewable by 2050 the Addison natural gas project was built with a 100 year life span we can't afford to be investing for infrastructure that won't be useful once we get to our 90% goal by 2050 at this time in our climate situation we don't have time to switch from one fossil fuel to another there is no time for bridge fuels the fossil fuel era has to end now at a time when the state has acknowledged that it is in the public good to get the 90% renewable by 2050 the state can't also say it is in the public good to build out more new fossil fuel infrastructure I am not against the practice of eminent domain I understand the good for the many it may be bad for a few but when the public good is at the state if we build out more fossil fuel infrastructure and the use of eminent domain for building it out there is absolutely no sense it's contrary to our goals thank you very much my name is Theora Ward and I support bills 51, 175 and 214 we are facing the biggest challenge of our lives I think we all know that and I find it kind of helpful when I'm dealing with something too enormous to really wrap my head around it comes back to some very basic principles of dealing with things so I'm going to ask you all to imagine that there's a two year old in the room who's running the scissors what would we do we would jump up, we would grab the two year old we would grab the scissors right we wouldn't say maybe I could get some scissors that aren't going to shock and we wouldn't say maybe I could teach that kid not to run quite so fast we definitely wouldn't say you know if the kid falls you know I don't think he will but if he does you know we've got to end going to some doctors and we could fix it and we wouldn't say you know the company that made the scissors said that they're not going to hurt him and we're going to furrow his life and we'd leave them and they're going to take care of the kid forever we wouldn't say it ain't that stuff we wouldn't say it ain't fossil fuel we've got to wake up and be the room-ups in the room and get rid of the scissors we're the room-ups we all know people who are going to be alive 30, 40, 50 years from now and we have to make the environment safer then we have to give them the beautiful world we have that's our responsibility they're almost done they take care of the kids someone mentioned earlier the big blue marble we don't want to give them the big brown marble we want to do the hard thing and the right thing and we need to do it right now Susan Mahoney and our deck is Tika Drew I'm going to interrupt you Susan because we've been in here for an hour and we don't need to take a lot of noise doing it we don't need to stand up for about 15 seconds just to stretch your energy out have to chat we're going to sit right back down again I don't want to give as much testimony as you have but people want to stand up okay that's enough if I can get everybody's attention again we can thank you thank you I'm Susan Mahoney I'm from up in Vermont the United States of America Earth, third rock out from the sun a medium sized star of the Milky Way we come weeping to honor this treasured one on her deathbed we thought she would never die thought this great survivor who cared for us fed us gave us home gave us everything we needed full of generosity and forgiveness how could we have missed that she was dying before our eyes we crawl numbly toward her deathbed the signs have been there the very air is suffocating her too hot and humid to breathe her fruitful fields are barren dust the oceans are flooding over her land to her very door the air is choking her lungs with smoke the rain is streaming down the wild wind is dashing to her two pieces and we ignored the signs blinded by our hubris this great being our only source of life is dying slipping away forever it is coming only known had known if only we had known our hearts hello my name is T. as a young person I am terrified of the imminent climate catastrophe the infamous IPCC report states that we have 12 years to act on climate change 12 years to wean ourselves off of fossil fuels 12 years before irreversible feedback loops kick in propelling us into what scientists have dubbed hot house earth in Vermont hot house earth will look like snowless winters increased flooding higher rates of Lyme disease and repeats of super storms like sandy and ivory it will look like the loss of billions of dollars the loss of livelihoods and the loss of life in Vermont as we know it while the changes seem gradual climate change is already affecting Vermonters as informed and educated state representatives it is your job to recognize these trends and pass laws to protect your constituents from the imminent climate catastrophe the passing of these 3 bills helped to set a precedent and show that Vermont is committed to combating climate change and to making space for sustainable energy alternatives all of these people came here today to urge you to pass these bills because we all have different things that we would lose to climate change and to these pipelines in 12 years I will be 31 years old the age that I would normally plan on having kids however the threat of climate change has taken this away from me if we keep going about business as usual the climate catastrophe will continue to unfold rendering it immoral and unethical to bring children into this world so for your own grandchildren for youth all over Vermont and for me I ask you to stand on the right side of history and to please support H-51, H-175 and H-214 thank you this is Clarissa Sprague and our deaf is Jim and his name is Clarissa Sprague I'm a student at UVM a coordinator for Burlington Center and a marcher from two weeks ago feet like drum beats on pavement are song filled 65 miles with hope for change and remembrance for what is already lost at UVM as I flip through environmental studies textbooks it is easy to feel hopeless despair for a planet that is on fire and drowning at the same time I had forgotten how many people still care I moved to Vermont with the hope of studying environmental policy and learning from a progressive state known for bold climate action however I find a sad irony that here we are politically spinning our wheels delaying discussion on many transformative climate bills this session in my home state Portland, Oregon has already passed a city ordinance banning new fossil fuel infrastructure I hope by now you realize the urgency of this crisis as young people are rising up across the globe we feel this urgency because we can see it as ash piles up on my windowsill each summer as Oregon air is no longer safe to breathe I come to realize that we are not talking about predictions I've come to realize that we are the grandchildren they were talking about that we are facing these repercussions now for my generation we have been told all our lives that we didn't create this problem but it's our job to fix it but we must scream and shout to let our voices be heard in a system where many of those who will be most affected cannot even vote our futures depend on your support of H51, H214 and H175 the world has already begun its transition to renewable energy right now 78 cents of every dollar we spend on fossil fuels leaves the Vermont economy instead we should be investing in renewable energies and creating jobs in state as a college student I want Vermont to be a place to live and stay after I graduate passing this bill would prove that you care about my generation more than those profiting from a broken and dying industry that the polluted political atmosphere that suffocates the rest of our country will no longer stand in Vermont that promoting fossil fuels and suffering through their consequences is not the life we want to live this community is here standing up singing and shouting crying and marching and we need you to hear us thank you thank you that is Jim Dumont and on debt to George Gross for Shora good afternoon thank you I will now be to testify again on these three bills I will not repeat the discussion I had with the committee two weeks ago about the last sighted unfair and a delayed process used in Vermont I will know for them that law school professors who are experts in the subject of this bill reached the same conclusion that Nathan Palmer reached I don't think Nathan has a law school degree and he's not a law school professor but leading experts on this very field have urged states to adopt bills that tailor eminent domain so that it carries out state energy policies specifically by prohibiting use of that end domain for fossil fuel projects while allowing use of eminent domain property power projects the second point I want to reiterate from my last appearance is that H51 is a great bill and has a drafting error it omits electric and other generating stations the bill is currently drafted only prohibits construction of infrastructure that transports fossil fuel does not include infrastructure that uses fossil fuel such as renewable generating station in my written testimony I submitted a sentence or two that would fix that finally I would like to discuss our president in section 401 the state of Vermont possesses unpreempted legal authority right now under section 401 of the Clean Water Act to reject interstate natural gas pipelines and all other energy projects that require federal permits because of their impacts on Vermont rivers, streams, and islands that's right in the federal statutes where it's not preempted it is federal law President Trump does not like section 401 exactly because state authority cannot be overridden by his administration therefore he issued an executive order just a week or two ago that seeks to try to weaken section 401 he will not succeed unless Congress changes the federal Clean Water Act which is very unlikely because it will take a majority of both houses to do that so my point is that while we're adjusting 401 procedures issued by ANR do need some updating they do need some clarification I don't think the committee should worry that President Trump's recent rant or temporary rant took tantrum will have any effect on Vermont section 401 of 30 or on these bills Next up is George Gross and Octavius Stewart-Ludd from Bedford Good evening thank you for having us I'm going to speak to my little my original notes sounds quite covered to my name it's already been heard multiple times by other speakers more eloquently than I have and so with that in mind I'll speak to you more in my role as a past I've been a professional as a scientist and the things that I see from reading the IPC report in depth principally as I've come I'm having the phase 2 pipeline proposed in front of our farm and as a basis of that I started to do litigation pro se in the docket and discover what the IPC reports actually stand out in such as methane and greenhouse gases and more recently as you've heard on multiple occasions the special report 15 in October this past year a key takeaway from that one that has not been quite in public science is that we as a civilization need to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions by 45% per year for at least 20 years maybe even zero emissions that's a remarkable transformation of our society I support these bills as a shot across the valve tactically to start that process we need to cap any additional investment in gas pipelines and in fact gases emissions that are coming through the fields of those pipelines I further would like to encourage you to confront those factions in your political leadership who have put the soft pile to this issue that in fact we do not have the benefit of time anymore in 45% per year reductions in gases we cannot achieve that goal we cannot move in the next year or two so I recommend that you get a strategic plan something that can be durable and executed for multiple decades to achieve just that goal zero emissions by 2050 thank you next up is Stuart Glutt that deck is selling morale from Bristol good evening I'm Stuart Glutt from Vetford Centre if more fossil fuel is built it will be impossible to meet the greenhouse gas reduction goals but industry reps from Vermont Gas and NG Advantage told you otherwise when they testified here a couple of weeks ago they told you that switching to natural gas from oil or propane reduces net greenhouse gas emissions that's not true they told you that UN climate scientists and the EPA say methane leaks don't cause global warming that's not true they told you that fracking is safe that's not true the gas industry didn't substantiate any of those things because they can't I submitted some written comments and I have substantiated these observations UN climate scientists and the EPA actually say that leaked methane is more than 80 times worse than CO2 the EPA actually found that drinking water supplies were contaminated by fracking there are almost 700 peer reviewed articles that provide overwhelming evidence that fracking actually damages people's health that's all substantiated by the citations in my written comments but even if you choose to ignore the methane leaks and the polluted water supplies and the sick adults and the low earth weight babies that are born near fracking sites even if you ignore all of that there's still no honest way to conclude that more oil and gas infrastructure can be part of the climate emergency response the pipeline is a 50 year investment UN climate scientists say we have about 1,000 years to cut global emissions almost in half in this emergency building out new fossil fuel infrastructure is insanity Sally Burrell and on deck is Brian Tocar from East Markville thanks for letting me share today my name is Sally Burrell and I'm the Bristol Energy, I'm the chair of the Bristol Energy Center three years ago I visited my sister and her husband in Seattle one night we abruptly woke to a huge explosion by an hour of silence coming from all directions we learned that the blast happened in the heart of the Greenwood business district three miles from us and it was a natural gas explosion in the morning we rode our bikes over to check out the scene and found the entire main street shattered glass everywhere two buildings were completely rubble and many others damaged the fire was finally doused by a big morning later we learned that the fire department had sent 67 personnel to the scene nine had minor injuries nine firefighters and 36 businesses had been damaged Greenwood used to be a vibrant scene with restaurants, bars coffee shops, a bike shop and a small theater and were enjoyed by the local residents and professionals I recall being there at Borditos with my family enjoying authentic Mexican food where we could make our own burritos but since the explosion the area has not been able to recover the economic and social vibrancy and enjoyed before the blast Greenwood suffered terribly with businesses leaving losing their jobs stressful litigation, repeated sound energy dragged out for years some received too little compensation for their damages the owner of Gorditos was homeless for a year due to his losses to this day there's still a vacant lot where the improperly abandoned gas pipeline leaked and blew up this story describes one way fossil fuel infrastructure is detrimental to society in our economy there are many other ways I won't finish thank you sir thanks for grappling with these incredibly difficult decisions next up is Ryan Tolgar and then just Katherine Bach from Charlotte thank you for inviting us I'm a lecturer in environmental studies at UVM and the author of several books on environmental topics I'd like to cite three reasons for the committee to pass all three of these bills the climate crisis the climate hazards of continuing natural gas use and the likely very short life span of any future fossil fuel investments first with climate disruptions increasing worldwide it is simply immoral to allow any further increases in fossil fuels US for capital use is still the highest in the world and the months emissions are rising it's time to say no second you've heard about the heightened climate impacts of methane leases in the early 2010s the Environmental Defense Fund the methane leaks from natural gas infrastructure with the hope of advising the gas industry on how to be more sustainable instead they found that methane leakage from fracking sites to local distribution networks was a far more systemic problem than previously imagined numerous papers have documented that methane leakage from gas infrastructure is leading contributor to climate disruption you've already heard about that the figure that in the near term which is what matters most methane has around 85 times the climate impact of CO2 so it doesn't matter so much that emissions from burning natural gas are somewhat lower the expansion of fossil fuel infrastructure has to stop including the prohibition on new power plants is recommended by Jim Dumont in his testimony third this is much newer research renewable energy is now trending cheaper than fossil fuels including gas at such a fast rate that a rapidly growing number of facilities are likely to become stranded assets in the not too distant future this is documented in a recent report that I'll gladly share with the committee the best way to assure that we don't have Vermont gas and other companies coming to us in a few years seeking bailouts for infrastructure that can no longer use is to stop their expansion now we can secure enough sources of genuinely renewable energy locally and from neighboring states to keep energy costs down electrify more of our transportation system and renewable energy system hope you'll pass these bills thank you Katherine Bach I'm here to urge you to support the bills before you legislation that would help reduce continued use of fossil fuels in a time when we must transition to renewable energy to survive Vermont is a small state but our actions still affect the big picture everyone is affected by climate change everyone benefits from taking action to a renewable climate change we all do know people who have their lives ruined by the effects of extreme weather events I have a close friend Kate who I've known since I was in elementary school we even went to the same college and one summer we spent a month riding our bikes home after spring semester we've kept in touch for over 45 years so I was sad to learn that her husband of 40 years died in May of 2018 his family in Paradise, California and Kate was still living there with her dog grieving the loss of her husband when the campfire hit on November 11th 2018 14,000 homes were burned and 85 people killed it was the worst fire in California's history Kate's house was one of the homes destroyed she was at work when her dog was locked into the house when she came home she found he'd been inciterated along with the house and a lifetime of memories she was overcome with grief I joined many of Kate's friends and started a GoFundMe campaign to help her to afford a new house but I can't help the millions of people in the world who are affected by climate change as much as I'd like to every drop of fossil fuel we burn contributes to climate chaos we are experiencing so why would we need new fossil fuel infrastructure in Vermont Kate can build a new house but the fires fueled by drought extreme heat and stronger winds caused by our burning of fossil fuels will continue investing in renewable energy is the only way to ensure a future for the next generations please support these bills to ban construction of new fossil fuels thank you next up is Gregory Dennis and on deck is Dee Gish Gregory Dennis Cornwall Vermont I thank the committee members for your service to Vermont and Vermonters I know being in the legislature involves long hours of low pay I support the proposed restrictions on eminent domain and ban on most new fossil fuel infrastructure in Vermont I think we need both it's not enough to restrict eminent domain as good an idea as that is we need to act further to ban fossil fuel infrastructure for the past 28 years I've run a business consulting firm so I tend to think in terms of business and it's clear to me that climate change and burning the amount of fossil fuel we burn is very bad for business especially for Vermont businesses most of which operate on narrow margins and are increasingly subject to are unpredictable and vulnerable increasingly subject to our unpredictable weather patterns through the climate change smart businesses and smart governments plan for the future you look 5 to 10 years out how can we meet the challenges that we face how can we take advantage of our opportunities they don't build dangerous and outdated infrastructure they don't rely on outdated and dangerous technology we really need to start now to decarbonize the technology it really exists there is a lot of job opportunity for Vermonters in decarbonizing and electrifying that's how we will heat our homes and run our appliances we don't need gas from business perspective it's very clear that climate change threatens our maple sugar industry our ski industry I'm a skier and I love to be out there and I know that in a few years there's not going to be enough snow switching gears for a moment and lastly I want to say that I want to stress to you that there's a lot of impatience building in Vermont about the legislature's role in climate change we hear a lot from legislators about climate change we haven't seen substantial action these bills give you the opportunity to take that action thank you again D. Gish on deck is Laura Simon my name is D. Gish and I'm from Sharon thank you Chairman Briglin and members of the committee and happy Earth Day yesterday Don Rendahl the CEO of Vermont Gas was exactly wrong when he testified recently that natural gas infrastructure can and will play an important role in Vermont achieving its clean energy goals Vermont's comprehensive energy plan goals include meeting 90% of our total energy needs with renewables by 2050 so there's no room for fossil fuels in this equation by prohibiting the build out of new fossil fuel infrastructure Vermont can focus on building the renewable energy infrastructure that's urgently needed to reach our goals the science is clear the recent IPCC report says we only have 12 years to make dramatic productions in greenhouse gas emissions or face apocalyptic consequences of climate change that's here and now but during last week's heavy rain events that flooded roadways homes and businesses across the state climate change is expensive town budgets such as in sharing where I live cannot cover the costs of the extra road repairs and culvert replacements that are required from these increasingly frequent flood events I work at the two rivers regional commission where we recently completed round one of tropical storm and rain matching grant bioprogram this effort took nearly eight years and cost just the matching grant portion $4 million to purchase 150 homes and businesses keeping those lots free from development and further flood risk there's an increasing likelihood that Vermont will face another Irene due to climate change what world do we want to leave our children my son a junior UVM has sadly resigned himself to a climate changed world in a recent column he wrote for UVM's headwaters magazine climate change is quote a plateau of consistent elevated tension and intensity entangled with everything from ancient geological deposits to consumer capitalism and the day-to-day reproduction of culture let's work to change our culture from the reliance on fossil fuels into one of community and hope thank you I am Laura Simon I've been a social worker for 30 years and a teacher for 10 in a few areas in Vermont I'll focus a little bit on safety effect gas and moving this legislation on the explosions and large large mass remind us that gas pipelines are aging they're dangerous and sometimes cause fatal accidents in November 2018 USA Today investigation of gas pipelines told us about showed that there's body oversight and lack of transparency methane as you've heard many times is definitely more seriously issued than carbon dioxide I attended the stockholders meeting for the parent company for Vermont gas and the CEO repeatedly told us that fracked gas is safe I walked here with over 300 folks last week I helped get town referendums on no new fossil fuel pass yet legislators say we have to wait we don't have the votes to pass this bill so what if we find yourself in the same place next year we need to act on this immediately the climate is not getting better and there are high stakes for Vermont as you heard of skiing, maple syrup and the whole thing legislators argued there were other bills that were voted on before there was enough support and those bills were held back for years while I just talked to staff of someone in this building a reliable source that said there was a bill death with dignity that wasn't passed the first year but the next year it was because constituents had a chance to talk to those legislators we need to know where our legislators stand to either vote these bills out or do a non binding public straw vote so we have that transparency so we know where our legislators stand and we want to know where they stand on climate thank you next up is Barbara Burnett and our deck is Sage Berber since I know that none of the three bills have made it out of the committee I'm assuming that they won't be voted on in this session while I can't say I'm surprised I'm heartbroken that the state has apparently had a crucial opportunity to begin the immense task of responding to the climate crisis slowly through your fingers is that because few legislators have yet to fully grasp the seriousness and the urgency of climate change have even those who say they're aware of the scientists warning after thinking their words into their hearts folks were facing a climate emergency it's basic physics the natural laws that govern our universe physics doesn't care if you believe in climate change or not physics doesn't care about your budget votes and most importantly physics does not negotiate if you ignore the rules of the physical universe you will suffer the consequences of doing so according to the IBC report that was issued in October we have now only 11 years left to dramatically reduce our carbon emissions worldwide unfortunately that's what you conservative Jamie Hine who's co-founder and program director for 350.org has said it's the watered down consensus version the latest science is much much much more terrifying even in the last few months there's new scientific studies so we really saw it was very late documenting that our planet is heating up even more rapidly and it was projected last fall we have even less time we have no time the time for the political posturing is over we need to pass these bills and frankly if we really wanted to take tackle the seriousness of what we're facing we need to declare a climate emergency like some cities have already and we need another session of the language lecture to be convened to deal with bills that will affect some other people I said transportation and agriculture and everything like that we're out I'm Sage Barber deafness resident taken from Burlington hey I'm Sage and this is my son Jamie I have a daughter in the cafeteria Lily and I'm here because I'm worried for my children and my grandchildren I can't imagine the world and my great-grandchildren if they exist that they're going to have we just can't imagine what it would be like I was thinking the other day like are my great-grandchildren going to chime in full syrup that's like the best food Vermont has and that's like a small thing it could be very scary for them you know people might die with the changes in the environment we don't even know what it could look like I just worry for them before I was a mother I wasn't as involved in this but it's helped me understand the seven generations sort of thing we hear of thinking forward and I think I don't know I really support H51 and H175 and the other one but I don't remember what I don't remember what the number was I don't know what it is I think these are small steps and it's something to say and I'd like to I'd like to see that small step but we're going to have to deal with a lot more of the society or leave it for them to do so in the last part if not for me do it for Vermont's future generations and like little people Jamie that's why I brought him sorry if you're a little noisy thank you thank you for listening and some is Brenna Regan and on the back is Alan Alves messenger Hi my name is Brenna Regan I'm an environmental student at UVM I'm also a part of a family supported directly by the fossil fuel industry and I'm also here to strongly support the three bills before you H51, H175 and H214 when my father lost his job in the 2008 economic recession my mother has supported my family in the plastics and crude oil industry most of my college education as well however three things have become clear to my family first we have to listen to our generation about what we need for our future second the volatility of the fossil fuel industry is clear and third the transition away from fossil fuels is necessary right now I live in the queen city of Burlington a place prized for being electrified by 100% renewables yet this is not the case for our heat our cars or our rural communities the comprehensive energy plan required by law writes that we need to source 90% of our energy need with renewables by 2050 yet we continue to devote our resources to million dollar pipelines which are meant to last at least 50 years into the future with the CEP's goals in mind this would be a waste of money and stun the transition to renewables that Vermont is looking toward the energy action network also reported that Vermont's air pollution has risen since 2013 due to fossil fuels falling short of the Paris climate agreement a commitment made by our governor while the pipelines that we currently have carry natural gas to many homeowners and local businesses the so-called clean fossil fuel fails Vermont's climate goals for example by 2014 methane was causing about 25% of global warming on the planet again I'm here to strongly support the passing of the proposed legislation that fuels age 51 age 175 and age 214 I'm here today because I'm scared I have a vision in my head of a moment 30 years from now my daughter is now 14 and 19 years old have grown up and had children of their own I have more gray hair than I have now my grandchildren asked me about what Vermont was like when I was young and after I told them about sneaking in a ski run before work in November or going to the Mon soccer game during the people's snow flurries they asked me why it hardly ever snows anymore and then I break into a cold sweat because then they asked why did everyone keep burning fossil fuels when they knew it was heating up the planet inaction on climate is rewarded by our legislative process because choosing climate means taking the long view longer than your term in office longer than your life longer than my life I want to be able to look at my grandchildren in the eye and tell them a different story I want to tell them that 30 years ago we got scared and that then we made a change it was a change that took courage and leadership and started right here in Vermont you may be thinking that you're already making changes perhaps around weatherization or other important aspects of the climate crisis but why I support H51, H175 and H214 is that every dollar we invest in pipeline infrastructure delays our transition to renewable energy some of you will have a similar conversation with your grandchildren in 30 years what do you want to tell them when you knew you had the chance to act Ms. Smith in our deck is Thomas Cuneo from St. George My name is Douglas Smith I live in Sharon I left my grandson in the eye a couple of weeks ago and they said yet you think I'm getting too worked up to like crazy climate chaos you think I'm in my mind you think I'm like off the wall you say, Grandfather no you can't be too worked up about climate chaos he's a high school student high school senior he said we're all in high school one way or the other we're so depressed about it we're so angry about it teaching about greenhouse gases and their effects 50 years ago in a course at a well known college to undergraduate students in which we talked about greenhouse gases and climate change and at least some of the students got quite upset and actually set out on a career that we never forgot about it we didn't know all of the science we knew the science but we didn't know the details and I went in in the 1970s that was 50 years ago so in the 1970s I became an international energy consultant on the renewable world and renewable energy and we had a lot of possibilities for actually turning things down and we knew what the culprit was and we knew it was the fossil fuel industry and in 1980 there was a political change in this country and all of the good work that had been done all of the new policies that were in place in Japan and the United States were suddenly turned around the fossil fuel industry won and the whole renewable energy industry went into the doldrums and now here we are again the same argument and we can't even pass such simple bills as these three bills before you so yes Jeff we did get awfully worked up CUNYO and on deck is Doug Grant CUNYO the Marshall Professor of Moral Philosophy at the University of Vermont I want to support the bills that before you can offer a bit of a different perspective my family is among affected landowners and a few that entered into eminent domain proceedings I'm in favor of these bills because I don't want other landowners to go through what we did but as experience a bewilderment to stress opening a mailbox one day you're told that a pipeline is going to be running through your property and you can either accept it a small amount of money or you're going to go into eminent domain it's one of the questions what are legal rights what are moral responsibilities what's our land worth with a pipeline through it are we putting our family into harm's way it didn't take an extraordinary amount of foresight to see that this is going to consume our lives in the next few years and it did and hence the duress we gradually learned that the agencies who wished to take our land and who were going to profit from it had nearly limitless amounts of money legal resources would empower to get what they wanted we had none of those things and as a consequence to have something that Gene Palmer said the negotiations felt like doing with a pistol to your head you're going to be rolled over and I just want to assure you that this is not an accidental by-product of fossil fuel infrastructure build-out it's built into the very process Greetings I'm Doug Grant from Putney I recognize many of your faces from the Climate Caucus Mike and Ricky mentioned this to me I didn't know this was going to be here but I loaned up just yesterday I came to your committee a year ago when Mary proposed this so it's very special to me I've been there three years basically I'm a climate refugee from California I have a cousin who had to evacuate from the car fire I have a other family member who has lost everything in paradise When I left California I went to Lincoln, Nebraska for several years to fight the Keystone Pipeline I went to Texas I went to Wisconsin, Minnesota Michigan, North Dakota, South Dakota the Athabasca Tarsans and other places fighting pipelines I've realized it's not going to get us anywhere but this I think is important this bill I think is a very good start but I don't support it the way it's written and what I've given you is three specific changes we need to eliminate the exclusion for FERC certified projects FERC is an arm of Congress and they do what Congress tells them to do in 2014 I met with FERC and I learned where they get their marching orders it is from Congress and I think Vermont, the brave little state needs to take a stand for us specifically without having any encroaches from the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission so you'll see in this package I'm suggesting that we not exclude FERC in two instances on page one and three and then also on page three there's a reference to allowing maintenance and repair but we should not allow any rebuilding or replacement or twinning of any pipeline thank you Next up is Jeffrey Gardner and on deck is Karen Bixler I'm Jeffrey Gardner from Bradford earlier today I posted by email to the committee this petition is signed by nearly 1,500 Vermonters from across the state opposing any new fossil fuel infrastructure and I'll leave it with the committee to circulate from everything that's been said so far it's clear that we in Vermont have made you a little more than ten years and we can to keep it bay the worst consequences the most dire consequences of climate change so I think it's important for you to imagine what will the next ten years be like in Vermont if we don't pass these three bills and if we do pass these three bills if you don't I think what you can look forward to is once the VGS recovers for all the flaws that the pipeline had built it will build more pipelines that will mean more painful costly hearings at the PUC it will mean more disruption at work sites as we've seen with the ANGP and it will mean more people like Terrence and others will be living under the threat of imminent domain to move them from their homes and many people will be living in proximity to dangers like those of the ANGP so badly constructed there also is the possibility that if these bills don't pass especially given the increase of interest in EVs and other and in heat pumps there will be greater demand for electricity being produced by gas here in Vermont that is very much what ISO New England has been pressing for for a long time bills do pass all of that pain all of that suffering goes away and at that point we Vermonters and I mean concerned and thoughtful citizens at large and not just legislators and officials will be able to turn instead to the really hard necessary work of planning and building renewable sources of energy to be used in state with funds that will be kept in the state's economy and not moved away from the local level on up to make careful decisions about energy efficiency and conservation and about land use and the sighting of new renewable infrastructure as well as net metering renewable energy credits and what could count genuinely as renewable and sustainable energy in short it's we who should get to work on these real problems without quibbling about goals or gimmicks to meet them and without leaving the decisions of the big nationwide or international interests who know only how to go on pressing on us the extractive and polluting technologies we know are obsolete and dangerous I urge you to pass these bills thank you next up is Karen Bixler and on deck is old Ricky old gang close hello I'm Karen Bixler from East Bethel most of what I'm going to say wanted to say has already been said it's been a long hearing you've heard it all I'll try to be really concise these bills are not radical these bills are baby steps they're a very beginning of saying maybe we could change our minds about the road we're on which is obviously going the wrong way and do something else step these bills have no financial impact on the state these bills are not going to raise anybody's taxes they're not going to cost anything so the biggest reasons to worry about bills are gone because we collect signatures on this bill and I can tell you I've never seen Vermont are so eager to sign things as they are for these bills to think that whose time it's come we're living in a changing world and we're starting just starting to barely comprehend what those changes are Vermont is finally going to recognize Indigenous people's day well maybe we should think a little bit deeper about that and think about people's relationship to the earth and what that means and that the earth is not just something to extract for our use and our comfort and our luxuries it is what sustains us if we will let her I'm not even sitting down I don't think I have very much to add after all these very important and interesting testimonies I'm getting old and I want to have someone from the younger people who was prepared to speak and didn't get a ticket to take my space I think we need to hear more of them so if someone can come up and take my place next person here's a young person I'm Hayley I'm 20 years old I'm from Middlebury and I'm here to support as a young person in this world I've been appalled and disappointed time and again by the inaction of generations who came before me and the people in power now to limit global emissions of greenhouse gases the failure of my representatives to take real action against climate change and the fossil fuel industry is a failure to protect my rights the rights of my family my friends and my future in continuing to support fossil fuels in Vermont you would ensure that in just 11 years probably less according to the report we've all talked about we would be living in a world torn apart and destabilized by climate disasters this is not the world I want to live the rest of my life in nor is it the clean, stable and just world all citizens of this earth deserve to live in by passing these bills and limiting Vermont's emissions from fossil fuels that version of the future and work towards a society based on renewable energy, equality and respect for the planet and I want to thank you for choosing to grapple these issues and I know you will take this tiny step baby step to fight climate change and protect all of our futures thank you very much thank you next up is Laurel Stevenson and on deck is Ariel Arwen from Hartley I'm Laurel Stevenson from Hartland Vermont if I can yield my time to that person I'd be happy to do that I think most of what I would like to say has been said I certainly think that Vermont has made good corrections to the new fossil fuel infrastructure bill my story is I came here as not a climate refugee but as a petroleum refugee from the effects of front gas basically I needed to be fresh air of Vermont to heal and I got off petroleum as much as is possible in this modern world process for that reason I'm not as afraid I guess of the transition that we have to make it gives a different perspective to it I've also been keeping track of the scientific literature which actually is making the 11 year time period look like longer than we really have nothing release from permafrost is happening now apparently so why would we build infrastructure and make repairs pay for it that we are not going to be able to use if we want to save civilization thank you hi my name is Olivia Summers I'm 19 I'm from Middlebury and I used to dream about having a family and having children raising them in the green mountains maybe having a spouse who hopefully knows how to garden because that's something I want to do again and now I try my best not to dream about the future this bill is about more than fossil fuel infrastructure This feels about whether the Vermont state legislation cares about the state's future This feels about whether the state Legislature cares about my future of my family's future If we can't look to the government to protect us, who do we go to? Who do we look at? Where am I supposed to find hope? Manning fossil fuel infrastructure is the least that you can do You don't know the science You know about how little time we have I Want to live in a state that prioritizes people over profit? I'm asking you to support bills H 51 H 175 H 214 For my future for the future of my little sister who dreams about being a teacher For the future of my friends who have tons of beautiful dreams I'm asking you to support these bills to stand for the young people of the world everywhere and For the future of the earth itself Thanks for letting me speak. I'm also a refugee There's a lot of us here I came from Northeast Ohio and Western Pennsylvania Fracking with everywhere It was ruthless. I saw what eminento made to people how the oil people went in there and intentionally broke up towns neighbors friends Pitted them against each other and it took their land They waged a little money in front of their face who were poor They leased their land thinking off. I'll get a little money out of this They got dead farm animals The organic gardeners and farms were devastated They had to abandon their land and move There was a fracking well a mile from my house. I Got to go down there every night after work. I'd see the ground oz out from the fracking well base That stuff will kill you in a second My cousin lived right across the street She has two kids Her husband worked for the frackers He made the pipe and installed the compressors His kids were sick They're still there and they're still sick behind me and the rest of the refugees in this room There's a few others coming our way My mother on her deathbed told me Valerie leave Go to Vermont. I Did my research. I had to find a place to go Vermont was the cleanest place I could find in this country I'm here. I live in Bristol Village co-housing We have heat pumps We have solar It's what I believe in and I'm proud to live there and it's the way of the future for Vermont Thank you I Want to make more space for My name is Charlie MacGaiso For a lot of eloquent things here in this room today Many people think and believe that there is another extinction happening right now Half the bee population in New England has gone And to a lot of farmers and a lot of people that means a lot of things have changed The thing I want to talk about really is eminent domain You know, it's legal concept in the beginning was about the protection of public peril When things were out of whack and the state needed to take a step forward in order to protect its citizens And the last time I saw that happen in this state was in Irene When certain regulations had to be put aside so that they could get the stone and gravel that they needed So that town's cities and stuff can reattach itself And we can move forward again as a people All of us in Vermont in the Dakina, which is everyone's home land All of ours. We all live here today In terms of the fracking that's going on And the emissions that are coming from it You know Vermont gas this product isn't a natural product that comes from the lot Why the state would abdicate its authority to utility companies or energy companies to begin with Without thinking of such peril that is going on And you hold the protection for all of us The problem is that this is happening on first-nation original people's lands where this natural gas is coming from And is Vermont Gas company going to be held responsible in some ways for the circle of cancers that are that are starting up with this original people's lands To what are you going to do to hold those responsible? In future as things change and energy changes You know if your responsibility to think of the long-term economic effects as well as the social cultural Life that goes on here. I know you take that seriously. I know you believe that these bills have come to McWitch, I appreciate your time I'm from Ryegate. I migrated to Vermont 1970 murder some renewable fuel And the environmental movement had started by that time and so we had some hope we Demonstrated against seabrook In work, but we did learn that there was technology coming that was going to make Energy renewable for more people than those of the wood would burn wood Well, I'm very upset You know, I went to visit my nephew in California. You had to vacate his home I went to Alaska to visit my daughter who's building houses in Alaska And they can only build but there was no permit for us anymore. You could fix houses that were built on permit for us and So I'm still upset after all these years. We knew in the 70s Like one gentleman told us before we knew that there was an answer to this kind of energy production that we had But we didn't do anything about it then So I have now five children and I have eight grandchildren and that's why I'm still upset Seems to be the condition in our country So in Vermont, we always have a chance to do a little bit better, and I'm sure you will Thank you Thank you everybody for your patience