 Boom we're on and today's guest we get Jason Mariner. How are we brother? Not too bad, mate, not too bad. Thanks, was that a lawless handshake? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. The way that that bit of it first you? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Thanks for coming on. Pleasure mate, pleasure. So up for the Celtic Rangers game tomorrow as well. Aye, looking forward to this one. I am, I fancy, I fancy Rangers to win. I really do but no- You're gonna fucking say that. No, I do, I do. I fancy listen fucking hell like, you know, they're getting better Rangers. They're getting better, you know what I mean? Anyway, they couldn't get any worse. So I'll go back to the start with my guest, Jason. Just where you grew up and how you get involved in the life you were involved in. So where did you grow up? Well, I went to a school called Whitton School. Well, the three days I went, you know, Whitton School, I went near Twick in a man worth that sort of area. And then, you know, it was a mixed area for people supporting different clubs really, you know what I mean? It was, you know, it was quite a lot of Chelsea around there, but obviously them days, you know, a lot of men in iteds, you know, in the younger years and Arsenal and Liverpool, always the same, you know what I mean? A lot of Tottenham, you know, bit of mixture. So it was absolutely a mixture of everyone, you know what I mean? But I always believe you should support who your dad supports, you know what I mean? And so, you know, is that why he supports Elik? Yeah. There you go. Oh, then I'm a great believer in that. I think that's, I think you should. Oh, my family are mad rangers as well. Fantastic. I'll tell you what, be true, I like your family more than you. But, you know, I do, I do, I think you should support who, you know, but so, you know, and and if you like football, you know, meet my old man like football, you know, listen, it's the biggest fucking sport in the world, isn't it? And it, it was then and it is now and it ain't changed. If anything, it's got bigger than it because of all the PC turnout. You know, we've got, we've got a lot of women's football now, aren't we, you know, and this and that and whatever. But, you know, so started going, started, you know, I was playing, playing and watching, going. And, you know, you sort of get caught up in it, but it's not only you get caught up in it to be truthful. If you have that, if it's in you, first, you know, look, you know, at times I was a cunt at school, weren't I? I said, that's the bottom line or on the street or wherever it is and blah, blah, and then all of a sudden, you sort of, you get it mixed up with your football, you're passionate about your football, you know, you know, look, I've said it before, I've said it a million and one times, if I play marbles, I want to win, you know, look, I'm a dirty, horrible, blue nose tomorrow from your side, you know what I mean? And I said, you know, we all slag each other off, you know, like, it is what it is, I think that's all part of it. And when I was younger, you just get caught up in it. And then we started, like, people would organise a coach, it was a straight runner. I put him down as a straight runner, the coach, really. There's a few of us at Roberts and like, you know, say I took 10 people and now I'd make two quid each out of them, you know, maybe I'll man out a bozer, but I'll take the blight out on that. I'd make 50 pence out of a can of a pose and, you know what I mean? And then, you know, there'd be other bits and pieces on there that people were earning money off of and this sat in the oven. You do the fucking folk machines and you do the cigarette machines and it's, you know, whatever. And all of a sudden you're going home with a monkey in your pocket and you're fucking, and you've had a fucking turn out. You've ended up having a round, you know, and your ex-man, you know, but even before that, you know, I just think, look, if it's in the cat, it's in the kitten. All right, so you, you're born a scallywag, isn't it, so to speak? Is that you start really getting into it seriously? The passion for Chelsea? I would say, really, I reckon about 15, like, passionately. You know what I mean? I was before that, I fucking, I must say, I'm not an old cat, but I've done the milk rounds and before that, I used to get up and I used to go round and I used to fucking lift the mats and fucking nick the milkman's mummy. That's the truth of it, I ain't gonna fucking lie. I used to go over and nick the fucking cherryade bottles and take the bottles back and get the 10 minutes back on the bottles and whatever, you know, whatever, you know, it was a bit of a, you know, schema as well, like wanting a pair of milk, didn't I? You know, and you're talking about, you know, fucking, a bottle used to cost a bottle, like, two quid to get into Chelsea's ground or something silly, so all of a sudden, you've nicked the milkman's fucking money, he ain't being funny, the trickle's left the money under the mat, you've nicked a ching, if you've nicked a fiver, you fucking got your train fare, you're in, you're out. You know what I mean, you know, I mean, fucking, I don't want to sound like I was born in 1942, but it's a fact, you know, it's a shame, the way the game's gone now, like, you've got free-kick children, you know what I mean? You can try and get change out of the fucking monkey now on a day out with them to football, but going back to that, yeah, you know, so, you know, and then I started, I had a milkman's and half become a straight runner, you know, I mean, like, I enjoyed it to be truthful, and the fella who had the milkman's, his brother was an old in Chelsea's, but it was just a bit of a coincidence, so he used to, on an own, you know, he'd let me slip off a bit early, go on, mate, off you go, Chelsea, he'll get me a little bit of weight, and off I went, and I'd 38 scarfs around me wrists and all that turnout, you know, you know, he used to fucking have the laces, took out me Dr. Martin's outside the ground and what have you, and, you know, used to queue up to get outside, get in the grounds, and fuck those wires, only 8,000 getting in there, do you know what I mean, you know? Was your dad passionate towards Chelsea, as you were? Yeah, well, he was, obviously, Chelsea supporter, but I don't think, no, not as passionate as me, you know what I mean, I don't think, but me old man, as I say, as what I was called was a straight runner, do you know what I mean, so he weren't, he didn't have the violent streak in him, so to speak, do you know what I mean, and that's where I think it, you know, it's sort of, that's when I say, if it's in the cat, it's in the kitten, look, if you've been a notions at school, and you know, you have a tear up with a fucking other school, you know, let's have it right, you know, it starts at school, your school's fighting the school down the road, right, and then you get a bit of a name for yourself, and then bum, bum, bum, and it carries on from there, and it's, you know, they make you laugh, they go on about all these fucking, like all this football violence, and this, that, and the other ones, you know, you know, not an ill carnival's just happened, I mean, I couldn't tell you how many people have been fucking stabbed there, but they don't want to tell you about it at all, because, you know, it's not right for them, you know what I mean, but if it was football, it'd be fucking front pages of the paper. It was your first game you ever went to, you remember? No, I couldn't, do you know what, I'd be lying about it, I was that young, I couldn't, I mean, I'd say I got into it strongly passionately when I was 15, but obviously I was fucking, I went when I was, you know, when the old part of the family was taking me and fucking holding his hand and whatever, putting me over the turnstile. So did you, were you getting a buzz from that school fighting and then it just progressed? Yeah, listen, I just think, look, it's naturally in it. Look, if you're a bank robber, you don't wake up one morning and think, I'm gonna rob a bank, right? You're a fucking bank robber, that's what you do. But to me, that's a fact, you know what I mean? You know, like, you don't, you know, you don't want to become a fucking smackhead, but you have a little tickle of it. Next thing you know, you're a boss monkey, you're an absolute raving junkie, isn't you? Because you're fucking whacking the gear up inside you all the time and football and football violence and that passion and that kind of thing or the streak inside you is already in it. You're born with that and it's, that's the bottom line. I don't, you know, look, you know, I mean, the hatred tomorrow is, to me, it's fucking fantastic, you know. And it doesn't matter, it's not because it's Rangers vs Celtic, it doesn't matter what the team is on Sunday, it's Arsenal Tottenham. And if you take that away, what's the point of having this game? What is the point of, you know, people fucking telling you to sit down and all that fucking sit down? What are you talking about? Do you know what I mean? I just don't, listen, I can't stand smoking. I can't bear it. But there should be a stand for people that's allowed to smoke because they just give 70 quid for a brief. They should be allowed to stand on their head if they want to, do you know what I mean? But I just don't... Can you remember your first skin up before choosing? Well, I'll tell you what happened. We went to Wolverham and Wanderers away and it was a fucking Wednesday or Tuesday, whatever it was. Anyway, we've pulled up in the car park and my pal, he's dead now, bless him, Darren Crowe, he had a flag at Chelsea on it. He said, hold that, Chase, he wanted to shake the wife's wedding present. So as he's got in the toilet, I'm holding the flag. There's a mob of this turned out and they went, what's on that flag? Well, of course, the very little cunt on him. What's fucking Chelsea, what do you think? So all of a sudden, he wants to, he's gone with me, right? Big black geyser, by the way, I've fucking shaped up, gone to go with him. I've spat it, but anyway, he's fucking. Chase, we were in a car park, they kicked the fuck out of me, be truthful. But I was quite bruised up and went, not, excuse me, not too bad, but enough. I'd had a kick in, you know what I mean? And there had been quite a lot of altercations before the game, you know what I mean? I mean, you're talking like mid-80s and whatever, or early 80s, 80s, whatever it was, something like that. So, you know, it was lively, it was good, you know what I mean? It was fucking, it was, you know, it was on top. But Chelsea had a good firm there to be fair, to be fair to Wolves, they, you know, they was up for it. And, of course, it's all kicked off and boomerum and then Chelsea got a nice firm together but I think, because it's gone round that, you know, a few liberties have been taken outside the ground and they sat in the other, and I think they're doing it for me because I've been ironed out, really, you know what I mean? But they're not, they're doing it for the name of Chelsea, they're doing it for the name of the club, for the name of the, you know, what we love and believe in. And that's the snowball, you know what I mean? Do you know what I mean? That's when it, like, that's when it sort of kicks in a bit older than a minute. Fucking hell, they fucking love me here, do you know what I mean? You know, constantly, they've known me, don't they love me? You know, that's the fact. How did Chelsea come through the ranks so fast from that side of things? How did they get the name that they did, WorldWeed? I personally think down to organisation, that's a personal opinion. Because many years ago, there's no organisation, right? There's no, you know what I mean? There's, you know, there's no mobile phones, there's none of this internet, there's none of this grass book. You know what I mean? There's none of this social media, none of this fucking keyboard warrior bollocks. You know, it's, you know, you would, this is where we're meeting, this is where we're meeting. This is a time, don't be late. People weren't late, it was 10 minutes before, do you know what I mean? They want to get there, they want to fucking be there. You know, many people, you're fucking turned up to get on a coach and you couldn't get on a coach. You know what I mean? People was, you know, you had to be there early or you had to pay your deposit the week before. You know what I mean? And everyone wanted to be on certain people's coaches or they sat there and all of a sudden you organised. And yeah, when you've got a bit of organisation, you can take it to a different level. Many people did Chelsea have enough fun at their strongest? Look, everyone can talk about like mad numbers and all that, but we have been to certain places when we've been like five, six out of 600 ended. But I am going back in the day. I mean, if a firm fucking goes and pulls 150 nowadays, that's a big mob. Don't care what anyone tells you. Forget all the bollocks. It's a big mob nowadays, do you know what I mean? You know, but listen, I don't care. Look, the bottom line is you can have five, six hundred. It's always the same 30 or 40 at the front. Who give you the best clap? Do you know what, that's, we've had some good ones. It's a big truth. So you can't, you know what I mean? You know, we've had some good ones. That's, you know, we really have. And I think it'd be unfair for me to say that, you know, I've been to Millwall when we've done really well, but I've also been to Millwall and the only way he's fucking out is to fight. You know, because it's been on top. You know, you shet will unite, you fucking, you know, we've had some good turnouts with them. The Wolves, as I say, and things like that. Do you know what I mean? You know, obviously we've had turnouts with Leeds and Leicester. We've had some great times with Leicester. Not quite sure why our big rival is with Leicester. I'll never know that, but we always have done, you know. I've become quite pales with a few, you know, quite a lot of them all up and down the country all over the, you know. Yeah, why is that? Then all this crap, he's did with each other and then he's became, is that more respect for each other? Possibly a bit more respect, but do you know what I tell you? The bottom line of it is, right? The bottom line of it is this. We all support, we all support a different team, but we're all the fucking same. We're all the same. We're like-minded. We wear the same sort of clothes we drink. We go to the same sort of bars, but in the different side of town, we're fucking, you know, we're all up for the same thing. We've got the same sort of personality, you know. I mean, listen, everyone's got good and bad. Everyone's got lunatics. Everyone's got fucking dressers and non-dressers. Everyone's got people that like certain music and don't like certain music. Everyone's got the same mixture in the same fucking thing. Do you know what I mean? You know. What is it? Do you start rising up the ranks then? Do you know what I tell you? You don't even realize you're going up the ranks if the trophy's to be fucking tall. Because you've got one of the biggest things between that and Fox. Well, I think fucking, but when you get an absolute chunk of burden, people know that you're a million and 1%, that goes a long way as well. Do you know what I mean? You know what I mean? Listen, the old bill, I'm one dog in the old bill station. I've got the right to remain silent. So when I, I don't even say no comment to him. You'll be sitting there interviewing me and I'll just look at you or I'll just put me in. I'll just look away and just then. The old bill even sat at me. Do you know how degrading that is? And I said, I don't give a fuck, mate. Do you think I'm fucking here to do your job? I don't even talk to him. I will not even talk to him. It's as simple as that. Because I've got the right to remain silent. And if I go no comment, I ain't fucking silent, am I? Do you think it's changed? There's now too many pussies, too many people videoing things. They're fucking great. There's all that fucking people going, it's not being in the shovel. People go, oh, you know, sweet grass, you know, he's this sweet grass, he's sweet grass. No, no, no, no, they're grassing cunts. They're grassing. That's the bottom line. There ain't no sweet about it. It's fucking, it's too many people. You know what I mean? But when did you start getting a lot of from fighting? When did the police start being heavy on it? To be honest, Maggie Thatcher was the one about that. Do you know what I mean? You know, she put the hammer down quite heavy. You know what I mean? You know, just wanted to stamp it out. You know what I mean? And she didn't do a bad job. You know, like my power, Icky, for argument's sake. You know, Icky, Vince and Terry, you know, they all, anyway, Icky, Steve got, you know, he's still a good power of mine now. I spend a lot of time, you know, he ran up getting a cock or he got a 10. He got a 10 stretch, but they fabricated evidence. The old Bill greedy-eyed chavies, they couldn't help themselves. They fabricated evidence. So, trying to make an example of them. So he got a 10, but he'd done three on, I think, one is a pill and got a £100,000 compensation. So he moved to, he's funny, he's so funny. You know, if me and him are together in the old Bill City, he says, I've flown back into England on taxpayers' money. Thank you for that slag Maggie Thatcher. You know what I mean, and you know, that's just the way. But, you know, it started and then, you know, they, you know, it's a game, really. It's a game, isn't it? It's them and us. Like, it doesn't matter if it's fucking, it doesn't matter if it's football violence or fucking, you know, whatever it is. Or, look, if it's cool, if it, you know, it's, if it's cool, it's prosecution against fucking, against prosecution against us defending, you know what I mean? Fucking hell, I'm fucking hell. The prosecution against us, yeah. Right, and then in prison, you know, your convicts in their eyes. So it's the screws against them. It's us against the old Bill. It's a game, it's a game of chess. Who moves first? Do you know what I mean? You just got to be, my mate actually calls me, he calls me the chess player, someone, he says I'm five moves in front, do you know what I mean? I ain't no good at chess, obviously. When did you get your first sentence from it? Well, the first everyone to be true, I mean, I've done a little bit before thing, but for me first sentence for that was the box of bricks when I got the six stretch for the turnout with the programme. Yeah, was that the back and tyre thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, what was the story with that then? Er, a fucking lot more. Well, do you know what? I probably met him 25 times in 18 months. It's the most to this day that they've ever spent on a documentary, right? They spent £300,000. So of your money, of your taxpayers' money, because that's where it come from, right? Your television licence, right? BBC, we don't need to go any further about that turnout with a BBC. I mean, they're all bacons, aren't they? Right? You know, but it's quite plain and simple. What they done, right? There was an informant, right? There was an informant. Not a grass, because a grass is someone who points at someone and says he done it. There was an informant, a paid informant, right? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. There was an informant, a paid informant, right? And, you know, anyway, but the truth of it is, well, we still to this day don't believe that they wanted, you know, obviously they said that I was, you know, big with the underworld and I had all these feelings around me and blow up, blow on when I was this, that and the other. So, they put their persona, it was big time drug importers. That was their persona. They've never denied it, they've admitted it freely, they've admitted it in court. They says that to you? No, then, that's how they get in, that's how they set their persona to get in. So, they went to the flat next door to me for 18 months. But they were saying they were important drugs? Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, but I have to go back a little bit first because they didn't just flop on that straight away. What they done is I've always been a market trader, that's what I'm a market trader, right? But I also had a tire shop, yeah, with two recovery trucks, you know, and they just, you know, I like to try and get a few reddits, you know what I mean? So, I had that as well. So, what they would do, so what they'd done is they lived next door to me for 18 months, but for three months, I never even spoke to them. Didn't even acknowledge them, but when you watch the documentary, you ain't gonna say that, no one else is gonna say that. It's only the idiots that think, oh, he got fell, he fell for that, and this, that and the other. Let me tell you, there was 344 hours worth of video footage, right? Now, if you watch 344 hours worth of video footage, that's seven days a week, your television on at two and a half weeks, 24 hours a day, 24 hours a day for two and a half weeks, fucking lot of footage, right? And that's the best they could pull up. But anyway, that's neither in order. You're not gonna say, you're not, when you're watching that documentary, you're not gonna, to the naked eye, is not gonna notice that, when I come back from some, when I went to somewhere, let's say fucking Ranger Selic, and I'm wearing this fucking terrorist cult t-shirt, right? Let's say I'm wearing that. They're not gonna notice that when I come back, I've got a boss on them, but they've clipped it, edited, enhanced it, filmed it, boom and boom, that's their job. It's no sound milk with me, I don't give a fuck. But what they done, what they done, right? I'll tell you what he's saw, I'll tell you what he's very saw, and I thought I might've had the jury on this one, if I'm being honest with you. Right, I started living in a little gaff called a little town called Ampton Hill, nice little gaff, you know what I mean? Sweet, right, cut a few little light ale shops, nice pubs, nice people, it was all right, it was cushy, you know, and my mate's ex-girlfriend, she's a girlfriend of mine, just a girlfriend, right? My mate's ex-girlfriend, work behind the jump. Well, he's tried to slip into her macking tire, right? Macking lice, right? He's tried to slip into her, well, she thought he was quite a good looking cunt, oh, but I blow him, she said, listen, France going out with a fucking drink and this sat in the other, boom, boom, boom. She's gone with it, and she's a single girl, well, she's up with it, you know what I mean? But I don't, it's unbeknown to me, I'm not interested in this mongrel, am I? So, then he cancels, then he cancels, and he keeps going missing, right? But there was another kid called Paul Atkinson, right? It was ex-old Bill coming out of my side. So he had a bit more of a walk, bit more of a talk. Listen, they're puffing, still having a puff for the fucking local, they got slipped into the locals. Let me tell you, there's a lot more other people and it was more worried than what I was, because obviously they've got to make pills, right, isn't it? But I don't need many more friends, do you know what I mean? So it was never, they never fucking slipped, do you know what I mean? It's just made it look it, so. So he's followed you about for 18 months, he's a documentary maker. Yeah, yeah, but hold on, might as well. Does entrapment no, can I put it? No, no, because there's no agent provocateur in this country. If it was America, it'd be phoned out, it wouldn't even go past the first hurdle. But hold on, this is where I think it gets a little bit sore for Heather, for the girl, right, and this is where I think I might, the jury might sympathise with me a little bit, right? We know the outcome, so they didn't, right, but anybody can do it, right? But he ends up taking her out, right? And they go to the Blue Henley Frontide restaurant in Chelsea, nice gaff, if I ever want some brownie points, that's where he's gone now as it happens, the gaff, but you walk in there, you go over a little bridge, all koi carp swimming about, and boom, boom, boom, it's a right nice gaff. Wined and dined on his champagne. On your money, by the way, right? Champagne, all the things, nothing's, nothing's bad. Anyway, never put noodle later on, they have a canoodle, don't they? Little kiss and cuddle, boom, boom, boom, right? She thinks sweet. Anyway, he makes his excuses and goes, but she thinks he's married, that's why he's gelled, that's why he's done the slips. Obviously, he's an undercover reporter, that's why he's done the slips. He can't tap down to her belt, I suppose, or he can't march on, not saying she would, you know, I mean, I don't know what has happened, but anyway. But she fucking, like, then I've gone out a few months, but when he started coming out, she went, he didn't stop asking about you that night when he was out, she went, and I, because I had the tire shop, he said, oh, I need some new tires, this sat in the other way, it's Jason's tire shop. He didn't even know, three fucking months and living next door to me, he didn't know. That's how good they were at the job, but she's told him, she ain't got nothing to watch, she ain't, do you know what I mean? She ain't got assing me up, she didn't know, but she's fell for the man, that's the truth of it, she fell for him, which is strong, do you know what I mean? So anyway, comes down, blah, blah, blah. Then offers me a contract, right? Now he talks to me, right? Blah, blah, blah, do you want to, of course I want to fucking do your tires, I've got a tire shop, I ain't going to send you to fucking McDonald's, am I, right? So yeah, sweet mate, blah, blah, just start, yeah, whatever mate, after, but never know conversation really, but very shrewd in what they're doing, then I'll be in a light hour shop with a few of me pals having a booze, boom, boom, be the other way, send a drink over, I'm one of them and I ain't a fucking, probably they'll send one back and, you know, I don't know the guys, they're the guys that live in the same bottle, you know what I mean, sweet, every drink, you'd always make, come past, always say hello to me pals and you know, don't think everyone, they don't understand the scenario. So anyway, when it becomes a lot more down the line, what he says to me, because they pretend that they're big in the importation of gear, what he says to me is, right, we, you know, we're in the other job, you know, I wanted to try and talk all gangsters to me in this scenario, I said, oh yeah mate, I've done what you're telling me, well, I ain't interested. Anyway, they offered me the gear, right, some fucking, it's absolute Queen's evidence, we got back up, there's no, there's no, so me, if it's any other way, so me, it's all bollocks, can't, so they offered me the gear, which I'll obviously turn down, I'll say, listen mate, I'll do my own thing, I'll get my own money, and I don't need to be involved in all that bollocks. And they said, look, we have top of the range vans all the time coming in and out of Europe, do you want the contract to change our tyres all the time, because they've got to be pristine all the time. So obviously I'll give them a price, don't I? For fucking a fleet of vans, because they've got a courier company, they pretend that they have a courier company, but they're blending the other job in, there is no other job, obviously we know that, right, but whatever. So, that's how they got into me, if you like, that's how they cracked the ice and I started talking to them more, if you want to know the truth. But I trust started bollocks. Yeah, but yeah, we'll do, I'll say a bit of trust, not really, it comes to me later, I'm just like, I'm sweet, you know what I mean? Was there any alarm bells ringing then? No, right, I must say this, because this is what annoys me with people on the outside. See, what happened to me? It happens every single day of the week to somebody else, but it ain't the BBC, it's the old bill. It happens every single day of the week. I've been away with a man in the shovel, and he was a boss monkey, and he said to me, look, I didn't buy it, because he admitted that he was a junkie, and he said, look, he said, do you know what happened to you? He said, and I said, listen mate, I know, I said, because I know someone that was a prolific faith, him and his brother, prolific. So the old bill opened the shop, and they bought all the gilfam, and then they just went and fucking raided everyone's gaffes. But it was the old bill that opened the shop, and it was the old bill that was working behind a counter. And he said to me, he was in there for serving the old bill up smack, right? And he said to me, he said, in the death, he said, I didn't feel comfortable with this, Giza. He said, no, I'm a junkie. He said, I made no bones about it. He said, and in the death, I said to him, listen, you never have a boot with me, mate. You're having a boot, and they fucking shut up. They made him have a boot. Do you know what I mean? I started laughing, I went, no way, and all that. And he went, I'm fucking telling you, he said, I've got no reason to lie to you. So I'm telling you, and whatever happened to me, happens every single time. Yeah, there's surveillance on everybody. But it's the old bill, it's not the BBC. Yeah, how did the BBC choose you, the bastard? I just told you, the informer down there. How can they use that in court? How can that even be law for them to be, but did they have wires and shit over there? Were they wired up? Yeah, yeah, yeah, fully, fully, but like, back in, there are more cameras than down here. Yeah. You know what I mean, yeah, fucking butt. But look, adversity brings you great strength, doesn't it? Do you know what I mean? I mean, you know, look, you know, I've used it to, people say to me, I don't use it to my advantage as much as I should do. And they're probably right, because I'm just a kid off the fucking street, you know. But I do know a lot of people that would have buckled a lot, you know, you just got to be a little bit mentally strong, and you're not pretending to anything that you ain't just been fucking real to yourself. Yeah. Be, you know, whatever, yourself, it can't fucking make you so fucking what, you know what I mean? But that program was viewed nearly 10 million times or something, it was one of the most viewed, it was one of them that was bigger than East End, or something. I tell you what they'd done, they'd done, they'd done it in, when it come, because it was fucking prime time, when it was seven and a half million years. Where did you find Duke? Well, that's how I know he's the informer as well. Well, not only that, I've been told. But, right, Darren Wells, who I've known for a long time, right, who come out, has come out and said, I am an informer, more to do with the right wing, which is, let's not get this twisted, right? Because you're fucking Chelsea. Don't mean you're fucking neo-Nazi, because for whatever reason, they seem to think that you're mad Nazi, you know what I mean? Because it's all bullocks, right? Absolute bullocks, right? And it annoys me about it, right? I mean, you know, because if your views are more right wing than left, you're extreme right. But if your views are more left than right, you're just left wing. You're not extreme left, so it's all bullocks. But he was working for a mob called Searchlight. But he was also against fucking, I think, combat A and what have you at the time, which is nothing to do with Chelsea, nothing to do with the Mac, it's like, no, we're doing this, no, but he was on the payroll. So anyway, but he said to me, he said, oh, he said, I was working in the BBC, changing the light things and this and that, and there was a trailer coming on. Because your voice is distinctive, I heard your voice. So I turned around, looked at it and went, oh, no, no, yeah, don't send, you know, there's a documentary coming out of there. And he told me two days before, right? So then I'll get hold of my brief and then go, right, listen, there's, and he went, there's nothing on. And I sat there and I watched it with my solicitor, with a fucking pillow over his face, and like that, and I thought, oh my good, good, but I've got seven and a half million viewers that night and I fucking, I know EastEnders only got six million. So I'll beat their tongues, all right? When did it start going, a quarter of a shot then? When did you do that? Oh, then listen, I'll tell you what, I've done the slips, didn't I? Well, I didn't know, I hang about with it, and then I thought, do you know what? I thought I'm past the post. I thought I was less to pig it, didn't I? I thought, fuck me, I'm sweet here. I fuck off and then, thing. And then he come in in November, I got chored in the March. I got nicked in the March. I got nicked to... Is that not a schoolboy era from those parts to release that before a trial? Is that not giving evidence, are we? No, because they, listen, do you know what it was? You know saying, me and my QC, Michael Wolkine, little Jewish fella, barn it's a baller, right? Me and him are still pals to this day, he's a good man, he's a good man. He's in the top 10 in the country, he's known for his sharpness, and men didn't really get on well to this day. And he said, look, you just got to roll with it and see what evidence they've got and see what she is and see what that, but we're still, we don't really think that they was that bothered about a conviction. They were wanting to make a documentary. They wanted fucking bums on seats, because they sold that worldwide. It's all about reddies, isn't it? Everything's about Pound Oats. And that, you know, all right, they got, but going, he's got to fucking, the mongrel, when I do get chored, I mean, there's some great stories behind it to be truthful with me, because of the way I am, but I'll give you a prime example. When I get chored, right, they nick me and they go, anyway, they come to me yard and I've got a trailer in the yard as well and the boy who fucking, who I've brought up as well has come up the same site and whatever, and he says, anyway, I'll speak to him in Romney, so they can't understand. And they say, oh, don't start your pikey bollocks around us and this and that. And I said, yeah, whatever, mate, whatever. Tell me anyway, they went, listen, you'll be out in a few hours. You'll be able to clean your trailer up and this and that. And I said, yeah, sure. They said, well, you think I'm getting out? Right, because they've only come to nick me, isn't they? They're only doing what they've been told to do. When I walk in the gather station, when I walk in there, the Desage, I went, oh, here he is, the famous Jason Mariner. So I went, I don't think I'm famous, do you? I said, fucking, let's have it right, mate. All of a sudden, this skinny-eyed chicken neck comes and sits next to me and he says, all right, mate. I says, well, I ain't your mate, am I, mate? I don't fucking ever seen you before in all my life. And he had, well, I ain't joking, yeah, this cunt had a Mr. Bivite suit on. It was shocking. Honestly, he's fucking, he's around the houses. His trousers was that much off of his fucking shoes. I said, I'll tell you what, you've got to do, mate. You've got to put some jam on your shoes, you've got your trousers down for tea. I said, I've never seen nothing like it, mate. I said, don't you earn any fucking money in this job? So anyway, I've looked at him like that. So he went, I'm saying, saying, saying so, and I'm placing intelligence. I said, well, don't put them two words together. Placing intelligence, you know what I mean? I said, I said, oh, yeah. He said, I'm leading this investigation. I said, good luck there, mate. All right, so he said, well, you know, he said, so we will be having a long chat later. I said, let me tell you one thing, goat's mouth. You'll be talking to yourself. Do yourself a favor, bang me up and fuck off. All right, I said, I'm not interested in your little games. So anyway, they took me, anyway, oh, that was, hey, it's another little, so they bang me up, yeah. So he said, well, to be fair, the death soldier, he went, everything all right, mate. I said, yeah, not too bad, my old cousin. I said, I'll tell you what, though. She also got let's out and I said, you couldn't let me know what the result is, could ya? No problem, mate. You know, it was all right, the guys, I'm nicked and I'm sweet. So anyway, I'll get spanked up. Later on, like that evening, there's a, it was new to me, fucking hell, I've been nicked a million times, it was new. They had to, people come round to fucking make sure you're writing the cells now. So I say to watch. I don't know if it's suicide, watch or fucking, whatever it is, it's like, to be fair, they're just, you know, it's out of their own time. They're only like, you know, not all zealots, but fucking just Joe public, do you know what I mean? But ain't being funny, this company's 387 years old, this one, and maybe he's having a turnout with the old bird that he was with, and that's why it's excuse to get out of the house from his old woman, because anyway, he's coming and he's like, he said, is everything all right, mate? So I said, no, not really, mate. And the cousin's looked at me like that and he ain't seen me, he ain't spoke to me, this other cousin is there, so he's thinking, what's he gonna say? So he went, what's the matter? And he's got his old pen and paper out and he's sitting there like, I said, I've been trouble, mate, I've got the fucking waving up. He said, well, why is that then? I said, well, I've asked the customer up there to tell me what the result is about Chelsea. That's how I said, I ain't even told me. So he's looked at me like that, he said, oh, you're worried about us, that's all I'm worried about. Anyway, the cousin went, I'll get you the result, mate, I said, you do that, mate. Anyway, I said, get us another pillow and another blanket, mate. I said, don't be late the call in the morning, right? So that was that, when I'll get the call, blah, blah, blah, they oppose, pal, right? No brown out with me, right? So he says, all right. So the prosecution stands up and one of his biggest opposement was, yeah, when we called Mr. Mariner, he had Mr. McIntire's name and address in his pocket on a bit of paper. So I started laughing, the old chocolate fudge went, he said, can you keep quiet? I said, no, not really, mate, no, I can't. Because I know I'm going to the warehouse. I said, no, not really, mate. So he said, I'm not, you know, how dare you and his, I said, how dare I? I said, live next door, mate, he mumps, mate. I think I know where he lived. Right? You know what I mean, right? And so, I did fuck it, I'll go out then, after being sued and I said, just for interest. So then they said, can you go through your brief? So I was getting on my brief, I said, can you ask him where the bit of paper is? Well, I've lost it. I said, what, in 24 hours? My fucking case come up 30 months later, and I never lost the evidence to cancer. I tell you, but I lost that one bit of paper in the 24 hours. So for him to make that documentary, he made that for the BBC and went 18 months undercover to make a documentary. No realising the extent it was going to go. Did, was he? Well, we think, right, we think that they, because they went down the, I need to go add this sort of thing, but because they've always said that I'm with gangsters and villains and this sat and I'd rather do that another way, put that in. But because they've always said that, you know, Freddy Formsman, my pal since the 80s, I'd rather you'd ask me that, do you know what I mean? And all these kind of people, they think, maybe they thought I was active in the drug world, but I ain't. I ain't, and I still ain't, and I'm not. And, you know, fucking whatever. So I think, see, I don't know if you remember, but they actually done, they actually done four, they done one on fraudsters, one on models, more one, one on stock brokers, and one on care homes, right? But the stock brokers never made it, never made it on television. Money, do you think? Money behind it, do you think? Well, I'll tell you why, because the stock brokers had too much money to take them. So little old me, thank you, little old me, can't, I can't, you know, I ain't been rude. I don't, yeah, well, I might say I do a lot for myself and I've, one thing's doing all right for yourself, it's having a BBC to call. Yeah, you're fucked. It's the most, they are the most powerful organisation. Don't be fucking funny. You got your Jimmy Savals, your Max Clifford, your fucking thing, you can get the list goes on with them fucking slags, right? They all want to talk about them when they're dead. They're fucking nonsense, you know what I mean? No, let's not say anything about them. Bollocks, Bollocks, you know what I mean? We've all got kids. We talk about them. Yeah, cover it all up. So they are the most powerful organisation there is. Do you know what I mean? You know, and, you know, please God, in years to come, YouTube gets bigger and bigger and bigger and wipes them fucking nonsense out, you know what I mean? You know, because, you know, it's disgusting, they're their behaviour, it's disgusting, you know what I mean? But unless you are in the public eye a little bit or whatever, I mean, that's why when, you know, you phone me up and ask me to come on you or so, I'm more than happy to do it because I've got nothing to hide. Go and ask them, go and ask them. Let's see what they've got to hide. Are they all fucking saying nothing but... Telling you, listen, he tried to get older me, he tried to get older me to do a 10-year anniversary. Well, we're married, old mothers come, right? Like a 10-year anniversary about the documentary about, right, it's over a pulse, as though I'm going to forget it because obviously I've seen... That's a fucking joke. I've seen him, I've seen him. You know he's had his wife, Nick, don't you? You're joking. He's had his wife, Nick. So he's got you a sexy year in the jail and now he's asked for a 10-year anniversary. Yeah, they've got it out on the Tuesday. He got you a sexy year in the jail and then he's asked you to do a 10-year anniversary. Well, he didn't know what happened, was, right, I'll refrase that a little bit. Otherwise, I'll talk as much bullocks as him. He, an agent, got older me, right? And said, he would lie down and I said, let me tell you one thing. Said, I'll do it. But the odds are in my favour this time, not in it. You know what I mean? And I won't be in the same room as him because I'd want to stick that straight in his face. Scabby-eyed cunt. Do you know what I mean? You know, to this day, I didn't... Although, let me tell you, everyone else thinks about him, I don't think about him. He can't live in my head, Brentfrey. All the time he lives in my head for nothing, I ain't getting a pound. No, not a chance, mate. I don't care if he gets cares when he's folk tomorrow. I do not care, right? Now, don't care if he lives 287. It doesn't bother me. I don't think about him. Other people want to talk to me about him, right? I don't care. You know, I just hope he gets locked door so he can't keep lying about people. But... But we don't go over an agent, this, that and the other. So I went in with a strong figure. Strong, right? And... And to be honest, this sounds a bit fain, but the agent even said to me, your name will be stronger than his to people who want to... Do you know what I mean? So I went lovely, so anyway, I went in with a strong figure in this and the other. He's come back and offered me a figure, right? Won't, won't, you know, right? And I said, who's he? You're fucking off of me. Who is he? Right? And then when I delved into it more, it was his own production company. I said, tell him again, lay with my grandmother about Bucking. I said, you're off, you're in, aren't you? How did he get his weave charged? They've had a turnout. They've had a turnout, whatever, whatever thing, yeah? And she, you ain't gonna, you jar, this is fucking fantastic. She, I think you can do, I mean, I ain't no good on them turnouts, but you can have a little look up and all that. She fucking, was fucking spy camber as a hook. You know, like you hang your coat on and all that. I was taping him. Tapping him to come back. The warfare was just as fucking bad as it should have. You lay with dogs, you get fleas. Fucking hell. What the fuck? Yeah, my life. Yeah, but who the fuck? He's got her chores. He's got her nicked. And he's got the children now and this and that. And he's fucking doing all this criminology, fucking gear and this and that. It's funny how she's recording him. He gets on that, but you can fucking get him net for doing the exact same. Do you know what? I'll fucking, I wouldn't get him next. Cause I ain't a dog like that. I listen on the, cause he'll have his, he got me, mate. But both the two, I mean, every time he's fucking, he's been, he's been, he's been done a couple of times and then the old bill always said to me, well, you know, we know you're behind it. We know this out in the oven. I mean, one time he got done. It was a bit of a coincidence. They said to me it was a bit of a coincidence cause he got done and I was on a football ban at the time. And I was handing my passport in at the police station. So when they pressured me and said, you've been, you know, and this is down to you and so I was in the police station and they passed me away. I'm on camera or more than that. I don't know what you're talking about. And I went, yeah, we know you're, we know, dammit. And I was like, who the fuck is he though? Thank you, who is he? Yeah, one of you mob lads, I'm not mad at him. So after your life, how did that change your life then? That getting that six and being exposed to? Maybe a lot thinner, a little shovel. I was running a lot. To have that exposure because then everybody knew who you were. Yeah. See, I don't, I don't look at it like, do you know what I mean? Like it's mental, isn't it? I don't, well, it's just, just mad, isn't it? I can be fucking, I've been at mental airpulse and people are like, oh, mate, can I have a photograph of you and all that? And it's mad and all that. But look, not everyone's gonna love you. Not everyone's, you know, look, you could be fucking, you know, Dave the fucking corner shop owner and know someone's gonna dislike you. You know, you can't help it. But I think what happens with me is, you know, I don't try and give it the fucking pig and I'll just road with it and took it on the chin and got me head down and done this sat in the oven. Cause people sat me, cause I'm a bit of a character and have a laugh and a joke and what am I gonna do? Fucking cry about that kind of all my life. I ain't worried about him, do you know what I mean? I've got absolutely no, no, I mean fucking, you know. But so, I mean, it is mad, it is mad. It's like, James to be truthful, mate, how fucking, you know, how it's changed a bit because, you know, it's just mad. It's even hard to explain, like, sounds a bit embarrassing. But, you know, someone's people think you're fucking a bit famous, you know what I mean? But, you know, I suppose, I think what helped me as well but, you know, I've done a DVD and I've, you know, my books have been very honest, very honest. If I've been done, I've been done. If I'm a fat cunt, I'm a fat cunt. I mean, I ain't no point lying about it. I mean, it's all the world's at stake. But you've been encountering documentaries, films. Yeah. You have been everywhere, do you know what I mean? You have got a strong name and a strong reputation and everybody who I speak to. But, look, you've got to be, it's nice to be nice, isn't it? Yeah. Whatever, look, I had good people around me, even when I was younger, and all the proper names and faces and what have you. If you actually, none of them are bullies, none of them are fucking finger, you know, they're strong people and, you know, you've interviewed some fucking, you know, some notorious, proper people. And I bet you'd say they've been gentlemen. Yeah. But because they got morals. Look, I like five things in life, you know, morals, dignity, respect, trust and law way. Them five things. I'm strong about them five things. And I'm about all of them. And that's the way it is. And look, if I like someone, I like someone. And you can't help who they support or whatever background they come from or whatever. I'm an old market trader. I fucking, I used to deal with a million and one seeks. I mean, I like the seeks, they fought for us. You know what I mean? I fucking like the seeks. But hold on a minute, you're Chelsea, you're racist, don't you? No, fuck off. It's boring, mate, it's boring. Do you know what I mean? Yes, we've all said racist comments in our life. Yes, you know, can anyone put their hand on their arm and say they've never made a racist comment? Because if you fucking say you haven't, you're a lying cunt. And that's the truth, right? So, you know, I think... How was it when you came out then, go to the games? Was there more heat on you then? Did you stop the thing? Going to games, I don't know. The old chocolate fudgy game. This is funny. Well, I think it's funny. When I got weighed off, when I got weighed off, I got the six, yeah, I walked down the apples and I let on me thing, yeah. I let on me, me fucking blue mat that you could read your nose paper for, all right? And I got a 20-year ban, but the maximum is 10 years in this country, yeah? Sorry, I'm in Scotland at the moment, because at the time, there's a little story behind it. It wasn't in Scotland at the time, it was England and Wales. So anyway, the old jailer and the jailer's got to know me because I used to ask where it fucking gets and have a toast at lunchtime, you know what I mean? Right, so, and he was sweet to me, you know, he couldn't believe it. Fucking hell, Jase, you've got fucking six years. You know, there's a cunt down there, he's just got seven years for fucking raping a fucking child. And that's the truth of it, it's just seven years for fucking raping a child. Cunt's going to do six months more than me. Six months? I've done longer than I can, ain't you? Fucking six months longer, you know what I mean? But so he's come to me, he said, Jase, they want you back up, they need to rectify your ban. You've got, you know, your QC stood up, looked it all up in the archives and he said, the maximum's 10 years. I went, leave, off travel, I said, you know, I've a long walk up there, map balls again, I'm fucking tired, I've been on 12 or six months, I'll just take me back home, I said, I want to get my head down, I said, I'm fucking out a long week, you know what I mean? He looked at me, sugar is any, but you're fucking nuts, you know what I mean? Come on, drop me out, I said, look, tell him I'm fucking going late with my grandmother. I said, listen, I said, I ain't going fucking back up there, I'm going to rectify Poxy fucking football ban. I said, it ain't not, I'm going to go Saturday, is it? Do you know what I mean? Right, so he went, so anyway, the judge sent another thing down saying, if you don't come back in a cult, you'll get done for contempt of cult. So I said, because I got done for conspiracy as well, right? And which may obviously to conspire, I've got to speak to you and I. So when the phone call was made to the Leicester supporters to organise, they're not going to deny that, they never answered the phone. So to this day, I want to know who we conspired with, right? So I went, I think the old chocolate fudge has got his conspiracy and his fucking, and his thing mixed up again. I said, because he wants, I said, contempt of cult. So he went, yeah. I said, well, if I ain't in the cult room, how can I be done for contempt of cult? I said, it is conspiracy and contempt of cult. He's got it all twisted this time. I said, he's thinking about his old boy on his knee and knee, fucking with his stockings of suspenders on us. I said, tell him not to forget it. I said, I'm gonna, I said, I said, I'm all right here. Anyway, but it's comical because they give me a ban. So it obviously went down to 10 years, yeah? And I wasn't allowed within a, I don't know, I can't remember it was that long ago, because I've had 21 years of bans, but it's like a three or five mile radius of Chelsea football grounds, yeah? When the game's on? Yeah, right. So when I'm away, I think I'll be comical, don't I, old Joe the champ? I've watered the old chocolate fudge, right? I've watered them. And I said, every other Saturday, I'm breaking the ban, because I'm within the fucking perimeter. So is there any chance you'll get me out of this shit or I'll move me to another beautiful establishment? Well, mate, it's been, oh, you're crazy, but it's just, what I'm saying is it's a game, you know what I mean, it's just a game. Bit of a ban, it was a bit of a laugh and this and the other. I've done it to one of my mates in the nick one time when I fucking, it was another time when I went to fucking Rose West, sent it to me, mate, from my mates, I think, sent it from my mates. What's your address? Yeah, sent it from, he was two sales away from me, you know, that and said he wanted to be a pen pal and all that fucking, he'd fallen in love with her and he'd written over me, he went, oh, you fucking mess. But people don't do all that, don't they? Yeah, yeah, get married and shit. But I sent it from him, obviously not from me, I sent it, do you know what I mean? To her? Yeah, to her, yeah, to her and all that, I got shipped out, so I'll never know to this day. But, you know, it's just sending little things on that that make you much of it. Let's try to keep you occupied, huh? Look, you've got to have a bit of ban and you've got to have a bit of, you know, every day, look, you can have eight fucking, eight fights a day. I mean, in Wandsworth, at that present time, to be totally honest with you, it's an absolute bang up. It's an absolute behind the fucking door, look. You know, fucking hell of stories. I remember coming down once, I never forget, Mr. Stewart, everyone hated him, I got in the light of him, he was in the light, and no one else, you know what I mean? Don't ask for anything in there, because you ain't getting it. So I went for the hot plate one day, Mr. Stewart, saying you have your shirt tucked in, everything in there. Let me tell you, in Wandsworth. I had my fucking rage, man. And I'll listen, but I've done a DVD, we're pretty well sure, many years ago, or many of us asked, because, you know, we all was in the thinker. And my question to Roy was, you've done every single, Nick, what is the hardest prison? And he said, Wandsworth, 1 million and 1% Wandsworth. And so when you walk one way, you're only allowed to walk one way. So when I come through the hot plate and I come out, I went, hello, Mr. Stewart, how are you? He went, all right, marrying up. And he's up on his old Bromley's, he's up on his old Bromley bar bows, like an ex-old bill, you know what I mean? Like that. So I said, Mr. Stewart, I said, I haven't actually seen daylight for three days. Is there any chance of a bit of exercise? Do you think we'll see exercise in the next Falknight? You know, we see the exercise yards, and I'm having a bit of bearing up, but really deep down, I fucking want it. Come on, mate, I'm fucking, do you know what I mean? It's enough now. You know, people are starting to get the zig and all get right agitated and this, that and the other. And he went, come, come here, come here. And I'd already walked past him, but I'm not allowed to walk back. I went, no, no, no, no, no, he went, no, no, no, come here, come here, he said, I'll tell you. So I walked back, what's the matter? And he went, he said, exercise, and I went, yeah. And I went, yeah, any chance, Mr. Stewart? I said, because I reckon it stopped raining in China three days ago. And he went, no chance. And I went, well, that's the end of that. And he went, do you want to know why? And I went, not really, but you're going to tell me. And he went, yeah, he said, I'll tell you. He said, you know why you're not getting exercise? I went, no, he went, because you're a cunt. And I had to know, as much as he said. But other people got the ump about it. You know what, other people were fucking raging, right? And I fucking, I've walked away. I've actually chuckled to myself a fault. Silly bastard. Come to me, come to me Christmas Eve one night. And I heard him coming and I've got me paper up like that. And I'm in a single, Peter, I'm in a single cell and he's fucking open the flat, bang, he's Christy. He went, Mariner! I went, what, Mr. Stewart? And I've got me paper up and I won't look at him. He went, look at me. I went, fuck off. Because he, you know what I mean? He's like, he was fucking lagging. I mean, lagging. He went, you'd like to be as strong as you, coming up. And I've gone like that and as I put my paper down, he's got a big red boat, you know, he's got dreadlocks. He went, you can't have any Christmas and slept a thing and fucked off. There's a mind getter. But he was funny, it was funny. He's a bit funny at a thing because I've got a booze in front of me. I'm having a nice conversation. But let me tell you, weaker people would buckle. Waker people would buckle. I'm going to kill that bastard when I'm out here listening to that. Yeah, he's in their minds. How did it break you then not able to go to see Chelsea? They're getting so many bands. You've had one of the biggest longest bands ever in British history. Do you know what, I tell you what did make it easier if I'm being really honest with you. There's fucking so much on the television nowadays. Do you know what I mean? It actually does make it a bit fucking easier. Obviously, I can go to football now and whatever. But you end up thinking, look, if I go and keep performing anyway, I'm just going to, it's just a revolving door. I'm just going to keep coming to the warehouse. What's the fucking point? You got another sentence, did you know after? Yeah, I've got a two stretch. I've got a two, yeah. What was that for? Cardiff, fuck all, really. It makes me feel like I've been at the front of the mud. But, you know, and I knew because I heard. I heard, you know, the cause of the gavel at the camera when it's Jason Mourner, it's Jason Mourner, it's so and so and so and so and so and so. And it was going through names. And I thought, if I would just stand here and I ain't doing anything. So I put my hands behind my back, just started fucking thinking to like, and I thought, if one of them steam's in there mate, then I can fucking. Self-defence? Yeah. All right. So, I'm in the fucking, I'm in the outcome, in the kangaroo cult and I, all right. And it always makes me laugh about that as well. Cause you know what, in 1987, I've got two not guilders at this Isle of Crown cult. Where it was, I've got two not guilders. I'm back there fucking 20 odd years later, fucking however long it was, more than that. 25 years later, however long it was. Anyway, prosecution starts walking up and down. Says you're famous, ain't ya? Said famous, saying famous. Ways. Written books, you've been in films, done documentaries, you're fucking, you've done this and he's walking up and down this set and the other. So, yeah. So when, that don't make me famous, does it? Signing books, you're signing DVDs. You said you've been seen outside. People stopped me, you have photographs. So I went right. So he went, and he mentioned about my book again. I said, would you like to buy it? So he went, no, he said I wouldn't read a book like that. I said, we might find it interesting. I said, maybe you'll see a different walk of life. So he went to me, he said, anyway, forget that. So there you are again at the front. Now I don't forget, I've just mentioned that camera. I think that camera's on me. Let me tell you, there was one up there, there was two counsel, one hand held, one up in the fucking flats and then the helicopter. Five, five dolly mixtures, so five smudges on me, right? But fucking, now we've got every angle. And then helicopters say what you're fucking like. Let me tell you, if you've got a little lapel and the fucking which I had on a coat, it can zoom in on the camera's fucking. Yeah, it's camera's top of the notch and you know, you ain't getting out anyway. But you know, I don't think I'm doing anything, do I? Listen, I said, we're always at the front. I said, well, someone's gotta be at the front, someone's gotta be at the back. So he said, well, why did you go down that road? So I said, the police pushed us down that road. So he said, so you're blaming the police. I said, that's exactly what I'm doing. He thought I was gonna backpedal. He thought I was gonna melt or something. I went, that's exactly what I'm doing. Blaming the police. I said, as a matter of fact, so I think it's a bigger stitch up since fucking, since last breath. But it's your BBC documentary. Yeah. So, you know, I mean, so he went, he went, and why'd you think that then? I said, well, is a category C like the top, you know, the top volatile, could be like, there could be plenty of clashes and this and that. And also, let's have it right before the game. There was fucking untold, you know what I mean? Right, there was untold going on, right? I mean, plenty of rollabouts before the fucking. So I said, so, so what are you saying? I said, well, when the game finished, you let everyone else out together. I said, I watched Liverpool Man United the other week at Old Trafford. I said, there was fucking 1,800, or more than many mickeys in the corner. I said, well, he kept the Scousers in the fucking 40 minutes. I said, till they cleared the streets. I said, didn't do that there, did ya? I said, you let, because it was a cup game. I said, you let 6,000 Cardiff out at the same time as us. I said, with an history, they both got history. I said, so, what do you expect? I said, did you expect everyone to go to the tea parties? Do you know what I mean? I don't understand it. He said, that's irrelevant. He said, I said, well, that ain't irrelevant, because I won't buckle in cold. I'm still the same man. I'm entitled to fucking have my say, do you know what I mean? And I said, well, that ain't irrelevant. I said, you know what you're doing, do you know what I mean? You was looking for a fight. I said, I was, Chelsea played at home, and I was walking towards my car, which was down that road. I said, but the police pushed me down that road anyway. He said, well, why didn't you, why didn't, when you got to the top of the road, when all this commotion was going on, why didn't you turn right? He thinks he's got me, doesn't he? Oh, silly old slippery bollocks here. I said, listen, I said, I'm a nosy bastard. I said, you know, if I'm going northbound on the M25, I said, and there's a crash southbound. I said, I look. I said, I look. I said, because I'm nosy. I said, so that's what I was doing then. He said, you was at the fun. He said, are you going to write another book? He said, because I never saw you with your pen and paper out. I said, it's funny, you should say that, which might have done kicking the habit, right? So I have done, right? But that's not, you know, and so I took the person. I said, well, I might do, and he said, but I never saw you with your pen and paper. So I don't need it. I said, it's all up there. So I've got many, many stories, all up there. So don't need it. And he kept going on about the fun. I said, look, I said, if you go to the fishing chip shop, some's got to be in the front. Some's got to be back. Someone runs out of chips at the end. You know what I mean? I said, there's nothing you can do. So that's the way it is. He said, but you're always at the front. I said, and so am I on the fishing chip shop. I'll just back to Miss Derby, you know what I mean? And I can't think that it's just. And you got a tour? You got a diss? Yeah, I've got a bottle. Yeah, I've got a bottle. Yeah, I've got a tour back. How is it? So out of all the London clubs, how the fuck is Chelsea and Mulwall, so riffles towards each other? How is the hatred so strong? It's funny, actually, because I've got some very good pals over there. And so some of our other lads, oh, look, it's a bit like, if you're a good football team and you keep winning things, people hate them. And when we was fucking at the top of our game as notorious footballerians, and they all come out of South London, they had a fucking tourist, you know, they're good at fucking having a turnout. You're both doing the right thing, aren't you? Do you know what I mean? So, in a way, there's sort of mutual respect, but you hate each other because, because I think because you're doing it right. Do you know what I mean? You know, we're working now. You're not gonna hate Kingstonians, are you? Because fucking. Did you ever come up to Glasgow and have a tear up with anybody with angels, and they go down to Chelsea also? Well, we had murders with Celtic, didn't we? With Celtic, you can't come down to Chelsea at fucking for a friendly. No, sorry, it wasn't a friendly. It was, we won the league and they won the league. Oh, did I say that? And do you know what the old Bill even fucking, he caught for me. He went, who will win this? And I went, do you mean, well, what a fixture, do you know what I mean? I mean, we was on the streets at two o'clock in the afternoon. Fucking hell, Chelsea and Glasgow Rangers have had a fucking affiliation since, I mean, my first ever game, I think, was fucking 84, I'll tell you when it was. Rangers played Aberdeen, right? Graeme Soomley scored the win at the Rangers. We had too many bus loads and we left Chelsea on a Friday night. Fucking hell. That's how it is mental. We left Chelsea on the Friday, too many bus loads, come down, walked in at the district bar, Paisley Road West, probably eight o'clock in the morning, nine o'clock in the morning. None of us got tickets, right? It is fucking mobbed, mobbed in there. I mean, it's mental, isn't it? Cause, you know, I mean, obviously people are, you know, they're straight, you know what I mean? They've been at work or wherever they work, you know, you don't get that where we come from, you know? I mean, we come from different suburbs. That was another thing with Chelsea. We come from different suburbs. You don't live in fucking Chelsea, all them cunts, you know what I mean? Although there's some, there's lots of, you know, flex. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And ours in the States and what have you. But you don't get it as a home. That's why Chelsea also had a good contingence as well, because they all come from different suburbs. They'll meet up, it's a different family. Every other Saturday or whatever it is. But anyway, we go to the district, never forget it. Fucking thing, you know. Ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch. Fucking. How fucking are John Wayne looking for me? I always thought I was fucking 12, but I've been boosin' on the fucking thing, and this sat in the up-arm. So we're down at, we're down at Chelsea. We was early, early at two o'clock. They was coming, I was getting phone calls. So they're coming in at King's Cross and this sat in the oven, blah, blah, blah. And I didn't have a drink, didn't have a drink at all. John got there early and fucking all, oh, I was banned. I was banned at the time. And, but I wasn't on a, I wasn't on a radius. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, so I was just bound from the ground. And fucking hell, honestly, we had, we had everyone and their grandmother was out. Because we've had a strong allegiance with, you know. How did their allegiance become so strong between Rangers and Chelsea? Just the blip, well, the likes of us early, started before us, but see, so that Rangers Aberdeen came that weekend, Chelsea had man United, Kerry Dixon scored the winner, we beat Aberdeen 2-0, went down, Kerry Dick, I'm fucking what a weekend, but that night we wound up in the lodge. Not that you're allowed to wear an act, but anyone with acts, make sure they're on the table, stand up in the national anthem at two minutes to 12, put your, you're allowed to smoke, then obviously put your cigarettes in the ashtray, stand up, boom, God save the, fucking awful, this is a bit of me. God save the Queen, the netball's like, Grilla's fun, I'm fucking, this is fucking me. So, you know, horses for courses, everyone's, you know, so boom, boom, all of a sudden, and no, you go back, didn't you? And you go, listen, you ain't gonna believe this, boom, boom, boom. I've got older as a trigger, I think she's about 87, don't worry about that, but I didn't mind, I was only about 70, I don't know how old I was, I can't remember, but I've even been 80, I can't remember what year it was. I know someone's gonna get to watch this and go, I'll tell you what year that was, because they would do, we was in the bare pit and it was all fucking, and it was just a whole experience, and it was just all of a sudden, you know, these are for us, it's mob up edge, you know what I mean? And, you know, you start learning, I think I'm not being rude, I've done it in Scotland, I've done it in England, blah, blah, blah, and we don't need to go into all of that, we know the score, don't we? But, you know, so that's how in, you know what I mean, James, and then, you know, look, let's have it right, there's a lot of sheep in life in there, you know what I mean? You're a fucking follower of all your sheep. There's a lot of sheep in life, but you start telling people when they start, and they don't, obviously, they don't, you know, and you say, you ain't gonna believe this, blah, blah, blah, and you tell people, you know, and I would imagine it's the same for the other sides, you know, if the fucking, your mum and dad have come from Irish heritage or whatever it is, or blah, blah, blah, and you ain't gonna believe this, and fucking, fuck them bloody bosses, and blah, blah, blah, and fucking whatever, whatever, I ain't gonna cry about it, it's so fucking what? Do you know what I mean? I'm called a fat orange cat no more, I don't care. See that every week he's were fighting, was that a buzz for you, you were just buzzing constantly? The other thing was, right, as much as I'll go back on myself a little bit, I said about the organisation. The organisation took it to a different level, but it was the element of surprise. I'll give you a prime example. I mean, Watford Gap is in fucking Birmingham, so why it's ever called Watford Gap, I will never know, but if we're playing, let's just say we're playing, man, it's just a fucking no car, salt, fucking others, wherever you want, so we're going up north, yeah? You're going up north, and you're on the fucking motorway, and you stop at Watford Gap, you know, back in the day, right? And yeah, fucking, you've got 52 earbuds, they've had, you know, the four cans in, and they, boom, boom, boom, all show the champ, walking the toilet like Liberian, walk out like a gangster, boom, boom, boom, all of a sudden, they've come out, didada, then, all of a sudden, whoever it is, whoever it may be, are fucking traveling the opposite of the other way. You're bumped into them at the fucking, you've had a rail before you've even got some fucking, because you can't help yourself. You like fucking your, you know, you're out with a dozen cans in, and you know, boom, boom, boom, and you get the so and so, and they go, fucking hell, did you, yeah, it was us. Do you know what I mean? You've had a rail at the motorway station, I mean, they're fucking poor. Why do these people ever want to work at service stations? Did you just get a buzz with that, or was that just, we're just buzzing? Look, do you know what it is to me? Football is a small part of the day. You know, back in the day, starts on a Thursday, starts on a Thursday, finishes on a Sunday. Fucking hell, you're out, you're going to buy yourself a no-t-shirt or a shirt, I mean, it's a clever company, you can't buy yourself a nice t-shirt, 120 bucks a week, and fucking all the buttons, and you're crying, you're crying like a baby out of a spilled milk, I bet you're fucking buttons being torn off a fucking t-shirt, and you've got a big black eye, you're more worried about your t-shirt, you know what I mean? So you're going to get that, you're talking to your mates about what time you're meeting, where you're going, what you're doing, who you're with, who's coming, who will be there, this, that and the other, bum-um-um, and you're fucking, it's the build-up, the build-up, the build-up, then on the day, and then you get pissed easy, because you're fucking, you're a bit man-in-ighted, aren't you, you get all excited, so you get fucking thin, you get carried away with emotion, and then, you know, I'm sure people will watch this and go, do you know what, you're fucking, that's happened to me, it's the truth, it's the fact. Football's a small part of the day, and whatever I'm about, I love the game. I love the game. If I'm on a Sunday doing fuck all, it doesn't matter if it's Sunday, it'd be Monday, be a Tuesday, whatever, and there's a bit of football, I'll watch you come. I don't care if it's, well, I won't watch you, it's that bad, you know what I mean? I'll get the Texas, wherever you come, so winning or losing anyway, I don't need them, but you know what I mean, I will watch, you know what I mean? Just love football for you. Yeah, I'll watch football, so what I'm saying is, it's a small part of the game, a small part of the day, sorry, and I'll tell you something now, and I'll mean this, there's a lot of people that's gone to football that have done very well for theirself, but it's in them, as I said earlier, if it's in the cats in the kitten, they ain't skinned members, there's some people there that's got fucking some strong money, they've done well for theirself, well, not that it's all about money or this and the others, there's other people that, bless them, have been fucking boxing crisps all fucking in a factory for 12 hours and fucking day, and they want their bit of release. I can't say that about me, because I ain't never done, you know what I mean? I have to work with myself because I fucking, I can't be told what to do. Who was the gameist bastard you ever came up against? Who was one that stands out, Yingo? He was a game, game bastard. As a person, you may or may not, because I couldn't say a thing about him. No, I'm not a person like that. Well, I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what, and it's the best northern firm I've ever seen in my life, Middlesbrough. Yeah. But 100%. Best, good law of this, by the way, but I'm sure there's, no, no, no, all joking aside, I'll tell you something, don't, good firm Middlesbrough, we've had some fucking great turnouts from him. And let me tell you, one of the top boys is a fucking very close mate of mine, very close mate of mine. But, yeah, my mate JB, but I'm telling you, it's fucking, we've had some great turnouts. I'll tell you, we had them in a cup final, didn't we? I mean, we've had murders before that, but we've had them, it was on the platform, mate. I mean, you've got to start thinking about, fucking, I might wind up on a track stage, you know what I mean? I mean, even Sunderland, to be fair, we've had some good turnouts with fucking... So, see if you know these people when you've got a respect, do you still go toe-to-toe? I'm not interested in the Bullocks anymore, to be truthful. You know, I do a lot for myself, I crack on 52 years old, you know what I mean? If you've already had the respect, she's knew each other, but on the day of the game... You just body-swerve each other a little bit, do you know what I mean? You know, you can't... Fucking hell, I ain't there to paint a wall, am I? Do you know what I mean? You're not there to fucking, you know, as I say, as I say, you can have 500, you can have 150, you know, you can have... But do you know something, we're all joking aside? Like, back in the day, that's how you meet a lot of them. Because obviously, like with England, do you know what I mean? Back in the day, fucking, they were good, you know, they were good. England were good, England were fucking, you know, because, oh, we invented football, but we also invented football violence, do you know what I mean? So there was, there was, you know, I mean, look, times have changed, James, you know what I mean? All this, look, if I could stop all these chavies now, going out, fucking pulling knives on people and stabbing people in the satin, you know what I mean? Listen, I've been bold, I've been, you know, chipped, I've been fucking fingered this satin every night, saying I ain't done nothing wrong like that, but, you know, people are losing their life every day, mate, every fucking day, you know what I mean? So the kid dies, for argument's sake, who gets chipped, the kid loses his life, he's behind the door, he's behind the jigger, his family is suffering, his family is suffering, everyone's suffering, no one's a winner, have a fucking turnout. And if it don't go and have a light hour afterwards and fucking thing, or don't even have the turnout anymore, do you know what I mean? I ain't gonna fucking have the halo around my head and all that turnout, but it's all bollocks now. You know, people, look, it's a bit like, if you like the fucking religion, and boom, boom, boom, but it's all about, it's all about, like you have these postcode wars now, do you have them in Scotland, postcode? Yeah, well, it's getting different people feeding each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all to us there, yeah, yeah. Of course, right? And what I'm getting at is, it's like football violence, right, is a culture. I mean, let's not get it twisted, right? This has been going for fucking 40, 50, 30, 40 years. It's a culture. It ain't a fly-by-night thing. They're punks and rockers and skinheads and mods and fucking whatever you have. Now, that's all, that's all a culture. To me, that's all a culture. Now, all of that, right, is, that's all still happening. So is the football violence, it's all still happening. I'm not saying the mods and the punks and the skinheads are going out and having to turn out. But it's still about. But all it is, is the numbers are dwindled. And it's just a smaller fucking, it's a smaller thing. And, you know, look, it's the fucking little wheels that make the big wheels go round. Do you know what I mean? I don't miss it, because, and I'll tell you why I don't miss it, because I feel sorry for these young guns as well. I mean, what chance have they got? They've got grass book, they've got to set it up. You know, I mean, one day they're posting their fucking food on there. Who gives a fuck when I'm running a bath? Well, good luck, yeah, run a bath if you can. Okay, so I can't have it. I won't have it, mate. I'm not interested. What's the plans then for the future for you, Jason? Well. What's the plans? Because I know you'll try to start out on your podcast for yourself, which will be massive. Well, I'm doing a, I've got a YouTube channel coming out. Yeah, I've got a YouTube channel coming out very shortly. I've got a film premiere on Thursday, but by the time this comes out, I'd have been at that. I've done a thing with, you know, the likes of Jamie O'Holls and It Ways of Ruddock, the first transgender fucking referees in it. Dapper. Dapper laughs, yeah, damn, my pal, Dan O'Reilly's, it's all about him, because he's not in the football, is he? Do you know what I mean? So what do you mean? You ain't in the football. He's one of the lads, do you know what I mean? And all his pals are in the football, you know what I'm saying? Would you? So I'll wind him up, or something, he's Chelsea, come. That's who you are, you know what I'm saying? He's all right, Danny's sweet. So I'm going, yeah, I've got a YouTube channel coming out, and so I'll go on the podcast on the back of it, I suppose, and, you know. And I'm doing a documentary at the moment, because we've been in talks about fucking this film about me for 20 years now, it's boring, I can't even be bothered to talk, but, see, they only think it's all about football violence, when it ain't about football violence, as I've told you the scenario, there's so much more behind the scenes of what happens with the, you know, but the program, I mean, they had fucking a yellow postbox that a seven-series BMW, a fucking Merck Chrysler. Oh, the list goes on, you know. But anyway, it's your money, we've mentioned that before, but, you know, so I'm doing a documentary, because they reckon the directors, the two directors and the producers, Terry Stone and Richard Turner, what they're saying is the documentary they can sell to Netflix, and then Netflix, then on the back of that, they can try and get some funding to make the film. I'm a bit like that, listen, Freddy Forman's been my pal since fucking the 80s, you know what I mean? They ain't made a film about him, so, look, look, if I wanna go and say, it is a thing, and I never managed to, I got phoned up last week by an Irish television company, an Irish one. No, I did, I did, so I got phoned up, yeah. And so the man said to me, it was all right to be fair to him, the old T. Caddy, he said to me, look, he said, it's 25 years in February, when the lands down roads, the game got abandoned, it's the anniversary, another anniversary, right, of lands down road. I said, oh, right, okay. So I said, what's that got to do with me? He said, but you was there, weren't you? I said, oh yeah, I was there, yeah. So he said, so what we'd like to do, we'd like to have a, you know, talk to you, and I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, let me stop you there, mate. He said, he said, cool, I said, how much? So what does it mean how much? So I said, I don't fucking do nothing for nothing, mate, do you know what I mean? So he said, see, he said, well, I don't think, I said, hold on a minute, mate, ain't you like, it's the mainstream television. He said, oh yeah, 100%, yeah. I said, what, you're a skit member, what, you got no Nilsons back there, you got no money? He went, oh no, he said, he said, well, what do I have to do? He said, what sort of money is it? Anyway, I spoke, he said, well, what we'll do is if we have a little chat first, I said, nah, nah, mate, so you can jot down and pick my brains and get 25 years of fucking knowledge out of me and this and that and fucking thing. And I refused to do it. I said, listen, mate, if I want to go on television, I'll go on Cracker Jack, what do you know what I mean? I said, I ain't fucking, I said, ain't for me, mate. I said, I'm not desperate to go on anything, mate. I said, trust me, I'll do my own thing. I said, nah, I don't need to be a thing anyway. I know from them, since I've fucking hanged out. Jase, it's always a pleasure, brother. Your stories are always up there, but thanks for coming on today. Top man. Hope we just get pumped tomorrow. Fuck you. We are the people.