 If everybody would be vegan, I would be too. Can't you make moral decisions for yourself? Why do you have to look for the crowd? Well, first, does an apple want to be eaten? An apple doesn't know what it wants. It's an apple. How do you know that? Why would you try to find the right way to cut an animal's head off when you can just be vegan? What do you think the cow would say to you if they could speak? Do you agree with the sign or do you disagree with the sign? I actually disagree. You disagree? Because I think it's all about chain food. I mean, other animals can eat other animals, but why can't we just do like them? So you mean like a food chain? Yes, food chain. OK. So if other animals can eat other animals, why can't we? Yes. OK. Because other animals are in a survival situation, aren't they? Yes, but I mean, we are kind of animals too. Yeah. So if we don't eat animals anymore, we will just eat vegetables. And I think it's not enough for the human body. So do you think that we eat animals because we need to? Yes, of course. Like a lion needs to? Yes, but of course I disagree with the way we kill them because we kill them in a very inappropriate way and we have to change it. But I think nowadays we could imagine other solutions to kill them in a nicer way, I would say. A nicer way to kill them? Because now it's. Wait a second. Why do you care? Because in nature, they're not nice to animals. And you said other animals, let me say this first. Other animals are cruel to other animals in nature. So why can't we be cruel to animals? Because we have the possibility to think. We have a brain. We have a different soul. And I think we have the power to not be cruel and animals don't have that power. OK. You just answered your first question. Yes. Do you know that, don't you? Do you see what happened just then? Let me explain to you. Explain to me. You said why can't we eat animals? Other animals eat animals in nature. And then you said we should be nicer to animals. I said why do you care? Other animals are cruel to other animals in nature. And I said why shouldn't we be cruel to animals? And then you said one second, let me finish. And then you can talk. And then you said, well, because we can think rationally. We've got other animals can't. So we can think about morality and other animals and in the situation too. But I didn't say like morality is to not eat animals. I said morality is about to eat them but in a more appropriate way, not by killing them by hundreds. I mean, nowadays we kill them in a very, very hard. A hundred, do you think? Hundreds? Yes. It's more like trillions. It's more like, do you know the number trillion? Yes. It's like there's a million. There's a billion. Then there's a trillion. Yes, that was... We kill trillions of animals every year. Of course. And I mean, even if we don't kill them, animals will do it. So it's not possible. I mean, it's not true. That's not actually true. Why? Do you think animals will not eat other animals? Well, you said that the animals that we are killing right now, other animals would eat them. Of course. How do you think? Well, they wouldn't exist. They just, we breed them into existence, these animals. Sure, but... How would other animals eat them if they didn't exist? I mean, you say, okay, imagine now every human stop eating animals. You think other animals will also stop eating other animals? Well, I'm not having a conversation with another animal. I'm having a conversation with a rational thinking human, like you said at the start. Of course. So you can choose, because you're saying, you can choose not to eat animals. And you will survive. You will actually thrive. I will survive, but I mean, since the dawn of time, we are eating animals, and I don't... Okay. I don't understand why nowadays we will have to stop it. Because it's, you said, well, for the same reason, you think we shouldn't be cruel to animals? Of course, because now we eat them, like they are not even, naturally, like they are not even, how do we say why? They are not living. Like we consider them like objects. But they are not. Of course, they are animals. I have a cat, and it will destroy me to eat my cat, for example. Wait a second. If your cat was in nature, another animal would eat them. So why can't I eat your cat? Because, I mean, you could, like in other countries, in China, for example. In this country, where do you live? I live in France. Okay, I'll come to France. Can I come to France tomorrow and kill your cat and eat them? No. You could, but it's... Animals eat other animals? Yes, but it's my pet, but if it was not my pet... Okay, so does your neighbour have any animals? What? Does your neighbour have any animals? No. Okay, what about these pigeons here? I could eat them. Can I kill those pigeons? If you want. Do you care? Of course I care, but if you don't do it... Why do you care? This is nature. Yes, of course I care. When I eat meat, of course, I think about the fact that they were killed, and this fact makes me sad. So why? It's nature. Of course it's nature, but... Do you think animals get sad when they kill in nature? Yes. You think they get sad when they have to kill an antelope? I mean, if they don't eat animals, they will die, so... Okay, yeah. But what I'm trying to say to you is you're not like an animal in nature. You're a human being in civilisation who... Yes, of course. And I don't think that you're the same as a carnivore. No, we are not the same. You have no claws and teeth, and you see a pigeon fly past like that. So you didn't want to chase them and eat them? No. So it's not even in your nature to kill animals? It's not in my nature, because we live with all of this globalisation. We have supermarkets, we have a lot of industrial food, but I mean... One day we will... So, wait a second. Do you think it's in humans' nature to want to kill animals? Of course. I mean... So children, let's just talk about children. Okay. Do you think it's in a child's nature, so they're less conditioned by society? Nowadays... Do you think it's in a child and an animal? Do you think it's in their nature to want to kill that animal or to play with them? Okay. I think nowadays it's not, because children have enough food, because I mean, there is supermarket, they have a lot of different kind of food, but if you take like 200 years ago, people... 200 years ago, a child would want to kill an animal just by looking... Of course. So they would just jump on a pigeon, like, I will kill... Yes. But how do you want to eat if you don't kill animals? Okay. Imagine now there is no supermarket. How will you eat? Oh, yeah. No. In a survival situation, things change. Of course. But... Yeah. Things change. Maybe I eat you. Yes. In a survival... We are about to die. Maybe I... Maybe I go crazy. Yes. Who knows? But why do I care about that? I care about right now here with you. Yes. Do you... Right now here with you, do you think killing an animal so you can eat them is wrong if you've got other food to eat? I mean, I think it's a very hard choice to do. I actually considered this choice. I wanted to be vegan before, but I just think that, you know, it's natural and... Why do you care about... Wait, why don't you keep saying natural? Because... Why do you care about what's natural? Because it's... It's food. You know, like, there's horrible things that happen in nature all the time. Yes. And if... Okay. If tomorrow I want to eat a rabbit and you tell me, no, don't eat this rabbit, just eat vegetables. I will, but maybe a wolf will eat this rabbit, so... I don't care what the wolf does. I'm not going to eat you because a wolf eats another wolf. Yes, but... No matter what, every animal is going to die. Should we copy what animals do in nature is what I'm asking you. We don't... We don't actually copy that. No, no, you are. You're saying we should act as a wolf axe in nature? No. No, because you're saying if you want to eat a rabbit... Yes. Why shouldn't you be able to if a wolf is going to eat the rabbit? Yes. So what you're essentially saying is we should copy the behavior of animals in a survival situation in society. Yes, copy. Yes, but not exactly in the same way because... So, wait a second. I don't want to hurt the rabbit. So you're now changing the rules a little bit of nature? No. Yes. You are changing the rules? You choose. So if you've got the power, of course. Yes. I don't think... I don't care about what's natural. Okay. I care about what's... You don't care about the food chain. No. I don't care about the food chain. Food chain, sorry. I care about morality and ethics. It's totally okay to do. Just... But because animals kill each other in nature, I'm not going to kill you and then say, well, animals kill each other. I think that's crazy. But I mean, okay. So now... I don't care what happens in nature. That's my point. But if you don't care what's happening in nature, you know deep inside you that animals are dying every day and even if you don't eat them, there will always be someone that will eat... Okay. And just because I don't murder people, there's always going to be someone who will murder people. But I don't do it. It's not the same thing because... It is the same thing. You're saying that because... Not really. Yeah. You're basically saying that even if I don't eat animals, animals are still going to die? Yes. But... If I don't kill people, people are still going to be murdered. Of course. Just because I'm not a murderer. Of course. So should I just go murder now? Who cares? No, because murder is not what the human body needs. Human body needs animal meat. No, no, no. It's good for... No, no, no. You're changing the argument. No, no, no. You're changing the argument. I'm not changing my... You are. It's what the human needs. You're saying that if I don't eat animals, animals are going to get killed anyway. So what's the point? Yes. So maybe I should just eat animals anyway. Okay. But it's one of my... One sec, one sec. Okay. So my counter to you, just so you're clear, is that people are still going to murder other people. So why don't I go out and murder people? Because I mean, why would you kill other people? Because people are going to get killed anyway. Yes, of course. But you don't need them. I don't need to kill them. Exactly. Yes. Okay. So I don't need to kill them, but they're going to get killed anyway. So why can't I? No. They will not get killed. They're going to get killed anyway. Why? So what I care about, right, is my personal contribution. Okay. Yeah. I understand. So you, like if you don't go and kick that pigeon, you're not going to stop everyone from kicking pigeons in the world. Yes. But you're not going to kick that pigeon. That's what morality... Your morality is. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But I think morality can be different for... Different people. Yeah. But I think morality is... Subjective. Yes, of course. Subjective. I mean, to you maybe, it's horrible what I'm doing, but I mean, I have a question. You have already met... It's... Meet before... For 26 years. I didn't know. I didn't really know. But why did you become vegan? Can I show you? Yes. Okay. I'm going to show you what happens to animals. This is, um... Okay. I understand. And this is what I was talking about. This is a gas chamber. Okay. This is suffering in the CO2 gas. It burns them and they suffocate together. Okay. I have already seen a thousand of videos like this. You don't care about this? It's horrible. Of course I care. And I cry every... But why do you... Every time I'm seeing it... But why do you care this is natural? No, this is not natural. This is not natural. To kill them in that way, it's not natural. Okay. So why do you pay for this then? Why do you eat this? I'm trying to not eat those kind of things. But you do though. Let's be fair. Let's be fair. When you go out... Yes, of course. So let's just say you're out and about right now, right? You're travelling. You go when you buy a bacon sandwich? Would you eat a bacon sandwich? Yes. Okay. You're eating this. You're paying for this to happen. I know. I know. And this is why I'm trying to eat less meat. So you eat some of this though. Just a little less. Yes, of course. So how much of this is okay? But there is some companies that kill animals in a more appropriate way. Who? You tell me. I don't have names right now. But for example... They don't exist. No. For example in... In front? In Muslim countries. In Muslim countries. In Muslim countries. There is a religion. It's called halal. Islam maker. Yes. And it says that you can't kill animals but you can't hurt them. And you have to do it in a very appropriate way. And what is the way? Tell me. I mean, you can't like... Do you eat halal meat? What? Do you eat Muslim animals? Yes. Muslim meat? Yes. Okay. So... So when you go out, you say, is this halal? No, not every time. Okay. So you don't... Before it was... You don't. So why do we care about this? You're saying hypothetically... Yes. You go from eating this to eating halal, that's better. Yes. Okay. But I'm trying. So how do they kill halal animals? Tell me. Actually, I think it's all about belief. What you believe in... How do they kill them? They actually pray to God before killing them. And that makes it... Okay. And it's supposed, if you believe in God, to make them less suffer. Do you believe that? I actually believe that. But I mean, I think... So if I pray to God before I kill you, then you will suffer less? No. Would that make it okay? Maybe. Who knows? Who knows? Who knows? I'll care about what you can prove, not like... No, of course. But what I can prove right now that... So what they do in halal, is they cut the animal's throat while they're fully conscious. And the blood sprays out of their neck, and they try to breathe through the hole in their neck. And they vomit out of there. And they suffer for a minute before they die. Yes, it's horrible. It's horrible. Wait a second. You just said it's good. No. This is halal. What you are saying right now, it's horrible. This is what halal is. But when you believe in God, but it's all about what you believe. And what you have faith in. If I believe in God, and I cut an animal's throat while they're fully conscious, that animal will suffer less. Maybe. I don't know, but... Well, how come the footage, when I watch halal slaughter footage, they don't suffer less. They suffer more. I mean, don't you think it's better to do that than just, like, the video you show me? No. I mean... Absolutely not. I don't know what's worse, going into a gas chamber or having my throat slashed open and being laid out trying to breathe that through the hole in my neck. Okay, I understand what you're saying. You know the RSPCA? They don't even approve halal slaughter. Okay. I understand. Yeah. But what I'm trying to say is, why would you try to find the right way to cut an animal's head off when you can just be vegan? Because, I mean, now you're telling me to not eat animals anymore. I'm saying that. But don't you think my body will miss something? No. Do I look unhealthy to you? Do I look like I'm going to die? No, you will not die, but you will be weak. Do I look like I'm not eating? You maybe will be... You think I'm going to be weak? Yes. You think I'm weaker than you? No. No. Not yet, maybe. Not yet. How long do you think I'll be vegan? I mean, I... How long do you think I'll have been a vegan for? I mean, is there a lot of scientists that say that human body needs... I get what you're saying. You're concerned about there being some nutrients missing? Yes. Exactly. So, let me just ask you this. If you find out you can be healthy and vegan, do you think it would be wrong to kill animals for food? What? Can you repeat it? If you found out that you can be a healthy vegan, that you wouldn't miss anything, would you then think it is wrong to kill animals for food? I don't know. I don't know, but I see that... You don't know. Tell me. If you think it's okay to kill them because we need to for health, if you found out you can be healthy as a vegan, you don't need to do it anymore. Okay, yes. Of course. Then it's bad. Then it's bad if we don't need to do it. I mean... Is it bad to kill animals if we don't need to for our health? Yes. Okay, okay. So if you found out that we had information that showed that you can be healthy, eating plant-based, no animals, no animal product, if you found that out, you would agree it's very bad. But it's not possible. It's not possible. Prove me that I can be vegan and be in perfect health. I mean, there's a massive peer-reviewed study by the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, and this is the biggest group of nutrition professionals on earth who brought out a peer-reviewed statement saying that vegan diets can be healthy for all stages of the life cycle, pregnancy, infancy, athletes, the elderly, and it can reduce certain diseases and it's better for the environment. Vegan, I can show you this data. And if I want to grow my muscles... Yeah, and you can get protein. How? I mean, my muscles are probably bigger than yours. Yes. Fill them. Go on. Yes. Right, but I need... They're not that big. I'm just joking. God, I settled it out of my mind. I'm only joking. But I'm just saying my arms are bigger than yours. I should be disintegrating right now. Okay, so I have a question. Do you think animals can be vegan too? Like, you mean carnivorous animals? I mean, for example, a wolf. Do you think a wolf can be vegan? Good. I mean, no, veganism is a philosophy that you... Yes, it's a philosophy. You believe animals should not be exploited and killed for an unjustifiable reason. Yes. A wolf cannot hold that philosophy. A wolf cannot say... But how do you know that? Are you in the marine? Okay, let me say this. A dog, if you teach a dog not to harm other animals, you can do that. Yes. And then you can give them a plant-based diet that is formulated. So they take the fiber out of plants and they formulate the protein out of plants and put all the supplements in there. And you can give them that, right? In a domesticated household, you can do that. But can I go out into nature and turn a lion vegan? No, I can't tell a lion to stop raping other lions either. No, you can't. They're going to do that. So just because a lion won't be a rapist... Because it's not natural. No, no, no, wait a second. Are animals... Rape is natural. It's nature. Rape happens in nature all the time. I mean... Think about it. No, wait a minute. Stay here at natural. Lions rape each other. They don't ask for consent. This is what? If I said, you know, excuse me, your honour, I know that this horrible crime happened, but lions rape each other all the time. It is, but... It's natural. It's natural. And I just don't understand. It has been 2,000 years, maybe more. I'm going to help you out here for a second, because if you get stuck on this nature thing, it's called something called a logical fallacy. And it's called an appeal... What you're doing is you're appealing to nature to justify something in ethics. And you can't justify something by saying it's natural because, and this is why, because in nature there are good things, like delicious fruits, and bad things like raping and killing. So you can't say something is ethical by virtue of it being natural. Because you know what else is natural? Cyanide. Tsunamis. And you can't say, well, tsunamis are good because they happen in nature. Sure, but... So you see how you're contradicting yourself by saying it's natural? So you're picking meat eating as natural and saying that's good. Are tornadoes that kill a bunch of people good? Yes, but... I mean, it's nature. It's nature. It's nature, so it's good. Is malaria good? What do you think? If malaria kills millions of people, is malaria good? So it's all about... You can answer the question. No, no, no. What is the question? Is malaria that kills millions of people from mosquitoes that's naturally occurring, is that good? No, it's not good, of course. But it happens in nature. But you're comparing two different things. No, no, I'm just talking about... Now we're not talking about animals. I'm just talking about... Is it because it happens in nature mean that it's good? No, of course not. So now we've got the nature thing off the table. You can't say that because meat eating happens in nature, it's good. Yes, but we already say that there is good thing and bad thing. Exactly, so you can't say that because it's natural, meat eating is ethical. Okay, but you can't also say that eating other animals is a bad thing. Of course it's bad. It's horrible to be eaten. Okay, so... Do you want to be eaten? Of course not. But does an apple want to be eaten? An apple doesn't know what it wants. It's an apple. How do you know that? Maybe it has a conscious... How do you know this chair doesn't want to not be sat on? How do you know that? You sat on this chair without asking the chair. Yes, but it's not the same thing. Apple is like... When you pick an apple from a tree, you think an apple is like feeling that? Maybe, we don't know. Well, if you don't know, are you sure? Do you need evidence to prove that? Of course, but... Do you have evidence to prove that an apple feels something? Of course. You do? Show me. Okay, not exactly an apple, but... No, no, no. Show me that an apple feels something. Is this your mum? Is this your mum? There she is. She's giving you information. She's... Oh, you've got a teamwork happening. So anyway, we want to talk about if apples feel pain. No, for example... No, no, no. That's apple for example. But for example, scientists proved that... Proved to me. Show me the study. Proved that... I've got out something up for you. I don't really know what was the article. Departure or pain? But it's about water. Water is... For example, when you put music... I know the thing and you freeze the water and it's got the... I know the study. Yes, so... And they think good things about the water. That doesn't mean the water is a conscious being. How do you know that? Well, because you can't prove me that. Water. I can't prove you that, too. No, because the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. That's how the burden of proof works. Do you know what the burden of proof is? No. If you're going to make a claim, you have to back it up with evidence. I don't have to prove that plants don't feel pain. You have to prove they do. You're making a positive claim. Of course, but... I didn't say that they feel something. I just said... You say you don't know. And just say, yes, we don't know. Well, it doesn't matter, because anything that you assert within no evidence, I can dismiss with no evidence, because you haven't provided any evidence. Um... So unless you've got evidence to show me that tree feels something, then we can just throw that argument away. I don't have evidence, but... I mean, it's all about beliefs. We don't have to talk about that. It's all about beliefs. We've got evidence... Animals feel pain, because they've got a brain, nervous system, and they... Yes, but I mean, I think being vegan, it's more about... It's a philosophy. Let's wait a second. Wait a second. No, because it's rooted in facts and science as well, because we know that animals don't want to be eaten. Of course. Yeah. And if I put you in nature with a lion, would you want to be eaten? No, but... What would you want me to do to that lion if they tried to eat you? To start with? Let's just say how to gun. All right? You're in nature with a lion? Okay. A lion's going to eat you? Why just kick back and go, it's nature, bro? Nature's ethical. And you're screaming, help me! Help me, and I say, you know what? You know how you said that about the pigs and about the cows? It's nature. They deserve to die, because it's nature. Well, you know, you're in a cow's position now. It's nature. Or I could shoot the lion and protect you and drag you out of nature, because nature's horrible, often. But how can you explain that? Can you answer that? What? Would you want to be dragged away from the lion and saved? Of course, but it's not possible. It's nature, though. Because it's nature. I would rescue you from nature. Yes, I would ask you to save me, of course. But the lion needs to eat me? Yes. But what would he... The lion needs to eat you? Yes, but if he doesn't... You wouldn't want to be a participant? Yes, but if he doesn't eat me, he will die. Would you want to be a participant in that food chain? Of course not. Okay, well, nobody wants it. You said food chain, that's the food chain. A lion wants to eat you. But the lion is going to die. Even if we don't eat him, if you don't... So should the lion be able to kill you? I mean, if he can't eat me because you save me, he will die. Okay, what I'm trying to show you is that a food chain and nature, these aren't ethical things. These are horrible things and we shouldn't copy them or mirror them because they're horrible. But I mean... So we can't say, hey, you know what, I kill torture, kill chickens because it's the food chain or I kill cows because it's nature. I care about what is ethical. Do you understand the separation? I understand. But it's your point of view and I think everybody can make... Well, you don't agree with what I just said because you haven't provided like a counterpoint. I mean, to me, in my opinion, I think it's all about the fact that since the dawn of time we are doing it and why should we follow your opinion that... It's not an opinion. Your philosophy. You haven't debunked it. What does that mean? You haven't proved me wrong. How do you want me to... So let's just say let's go dawn of time. You want to go use dawn of time as a justification? Yes. Okay, let's do that. So this is the same... I'm teaching you how to think logically here as well because I think that you're using justifications out of logical fallacies. So dawn of time, we've been doing eating animals from the dawn of time so we should keep doing it. I mean, it depends on everything. So let's just say are there other things that have happened since the dawn of time that we should not do? Okay, you said before that in nature there is bad thing and good thing. There is good thing we must keep doing and bad thing we must stop. And what about the dawn of time? Is there good and bad things in the dawn of time? I think it depends on your point of view. Well, we've raped and killed and pillaged and, you know, tortured and done all these things since probably the dawn of time. Okay, I just... No, no, no, don't change your subject until we stay on the dawn of time. Okay. I want to get dawn of time off the table. Okay. So you agree that bad things have happened since the dawn of time? Yes. So does that mean that we can justify something because it's always happened? No. Okay. But... So then you can't justify eating animals because it's happened? I mean, right now you're saying that killing animals to eat them is a bad thing, but I don't think so. I think... No, from your perspective, from the animal's perspective is it bad? Of course. Of course it's bad to be an animal. But the chicken... But animals want to eat me too. I mean, if tomorrow I'm in the front, like you say, and you are not here to save me from the lion, he will eat me, but that's life. And I think that's bad. But that's life, you can say to every animal, stop eating other animals, they will all die. I'm talking to you in England right now, who lives in France, who's a human being who can rationalize. I'm not talking to a lion. But like I said, I can't stop a lion from raping other lions. No. But human beings shouldn't do it. And I wouldn't say, hey, you're not going to stop all the lions from raping other lions. But human beings shouldn't act like that. And you shouldn't say, well, you know what? I'm going to keep doing it because lions do it, bro. It's natural. It's been happening since the dawn of time. And what was the other one? It's some type of chain or something. I don't know. OK. I understand, but I actually consider your point of view. And you just have to know that I already think about being vegan. And I'm trying to reduce my... You're killing other beings. Yes. You won't say that. But I mean, OK. When you kill by mistake, a butterfly. OK. Is this your mom's butterfly argument? No. OK. So what about accidentally killing another one? She just said to me that God created us like that. God created us to eat meat. Yes. If God created us to eat meat, why do we get heart disease from eating too much meat? Why can't you watch an animal be slaughtered inside that? I mean, because what you show me is torture, but I don't want to torture animals. Have you seen an animal just be... without being tortured, being killed, and have their head cut off and their guts pulled out? I mean... It's not nice. No. But if you were made to eat meat, you wouldn't think anything of it. But I don't know how to explain it, but... You know why? Because you're an animal too, right? We're both human animals. Yes. Non-human animals we're human animals. Yeah. And when you see another being who are like us get their head cut off, we automatically feel compassion because we're not murderous. Yes, it breaks my heart. Okay. So, but if God made you, like your mum said, God made us to be killers to eat meat. Yes. Do you think a lion's heart broken when they're ripping an antelope to shreds and they're still alive? No, it's horrible. Do you think a lion since the end goes on heartbroken? But we have to kill him in a good way, not by torturing them. You have to kill them, yes. But I don't... I don't want to torture you and kill you or kill you without any suffering. I'm always going to choose killing you without any suffering. Okay. Now, so you've got animals here. We can torture them in factory farms and kill them. We can try to find a more humane way to kill them or we can not kill them. Which is the most ethical? Of course. No, honestly, if everybody was... Can you answer the question before we move on? Which is the most ethical? Torturing kill them? Kill them humanely or not kill them? Not kill them. Okay. But honestly, if everybody would be vegan, I would be too. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yes. So you will only act in a moral way until everyone else does? Yes, because I act this way because I know that... I mean, if everybody was vegan, I would definitely... But why? Because... Imagine... No one's going to be vegan if you have that attitude. But if tomorrow I would be vegan, I know that there is a lot of people that would keep eating meat and it will not change. Okay, let me just... Remember how before I told you people are always going to kill each other. People are always going to be cruel to dogs. But I don't. It's the same thing. Okay. Just because everyone else is going to do something, you've chosen not to. So you've stopped putting your demand, your money to kill animals. That's your decision. You know, you can't control what everyone does, but you can be part of the change. And if you're against it, like if you think it's bad, most of the time you're eating stuff like this. I guarantee you. Because statistically it's factory farms and slaughterhouses. But can't you make moral decisions for yourself? Why do you have to look for the crowd? Of course, I think I can be the change that I want to see in the world. And I would prefer to be vegan, of course. You know, it's not... You would prefer? Of course I would. Okay. I mean, it breaks my heart to eat meat, you know? These animals, what do you think the animals feel? I don't think they... Because we're always talking about how you feel about it, how humans feel about it. But they can't actually feel anymore because they're like... But before... There's a cow right here. What do you think they would feel? If you said I'm going to have to kill you humanely to eat your body. What do you think the cow would say if they could speak to you? It's horrible. They don't want to be eaten. They would say what do you think the cow would say to you? Don't... Be out of guns to their head. If they could speak. Don't kill me? Yeah? Yes. Okay, so I have to go. But I think, of course, vegan are right. But in our world nowadays, I don't think it's possible that everybody changes their uses. Because we... The power is in your hands. I'm asking you to make a decision through your heart. Of course. And you don't... I can already tell you really, I was questioning what type of person you were, but now I know that you are compassionate. Yes, of course. Because if a cow doesn't want to die, you wouldn't kill them. Yes. But I promise you, I will try to be vegan. Okay, well, that was really nice talking to you. Okay. And I really... This is your vegan challenge. It's called Challenge 22. Okay. And they help you what to eat and things like this. Okay. But you should follow your heart. Yes. Stop thinking up here. Follow your heart. Your rights. Because there's a lot of excuses for what we do. Yeah. But I think the best way to reduce harm to animals is to be vegan. I agree. Yeah, of course. Nice talking to you. Thanks. What was your name again? Marianne. Marianne. Thank you for the debate. Thank you. It was very passionate. Thank you for you. I appreciate it. Fire. Like to be so... That was a great debate. That was a good discussion. I have to thank her, really, because that was a good discussion. And at the end, when I asked her, what would the cow say to you? And she said, that would say, don't kill me. And that's where I think the penny dropped. And that was when I've got to go now. Got her to think, you know? And that if you can get someone away from that logical mind into their heart, I think that's what happened then. And then she started to feel it for the animals. Really good.