 All right, hello and welcome to our ongoing election coverage by town meeting television. This is one of a series of election forums that we're bringing you in advance of the general election in November. My name is Helen Morgan Permet and I'm the Edwin W. Lawrence Forensics Professor of Speech and Associate Professor in the Department of English at the University of Vermont and I'll be tonight's moderator for our election forum for US Congress for months. One and only house seat is up for stake this year and we're hosting two of the candidates that weren't able to zoom in to our live in the studio forum and so I'm glad that we're having an opportunity for them to share their views here with you tonight. So town meeting TV just so you know hosts forums with all candidates everybody's invited and covers all ballot items that you'll see on your November ballot. So town meeting TV election forums introduce you to community decision makers and connect you with the issues that shape your local community and indeed your everyday life. So if you're watching this live we welcome your questions and you can call us here in the studio at 802-862-3966 so again that's 802-862-3966 so please do call in with any questions that you have and you can watch town meeting TV on Comcast channel 1087 Burlington telecom channel 17 and 217 as well as online at youtube.com back slash town meeting TV. All right so we're going to get started tonight with the candidates opening statements so I'll give them a chance to introduce themselves and as well as provide an opening statement. So let's go ahead and get started with Erica. Good evening everyone and thank you again Helen and town meeting TV for helping figure it out and accommodating. It is so important that Vermonters hear all of the voices and all of the options that they have for candidates this year so I applaud you for that. Now our I believe the original question was you know what qualifies us to run for congress and why why do we want to represent Vermont and I have a number of experiences that I think will that Vermonters and Americans can relate to you know whether it's being a small business owner and a housing provider and understanding all of the issues struggles that go along with that but also our state has an incredibly high drug abuse rate and I this year celebrated 13 years sober and I'm incredibly passionate about helping people get and stay sober and so I offer that experience as I go to Washington. I also offer the experience of having dealt with a medical issue that financially devastated our family in addition to having to overcome from one of our businesses basically being destroyed by the COVID shutdowns and so I have the experience necessary to help Vermonters and help Americans overcome the problems that we're facing. All right thanks so much for that Erica now let's hear from you Liam welcome. Good evening hello fellow Vermonters my name is Liam Madden I am a marine veteran who became the leader of the nation's largest anti-war organization of Iraq veterans. I'm a renewable energy professional who co-won MIT's solve award for businesses focused on climate change solutions. I'm an independent because I believe both sides of the political spectrum have values that are needed for a healthy society and I'm offering my service to Vermont because I see challenges and opportunities that our existing political tools are incapable of taking on. Our two-party political system does not represent us or solve our problems well it is controlled by the ultra-rich and it is driving us apart. A system that gives us a choice between Joe Biden and Donald Trump is a system that is not fulfilling our potential. I believe with the right priorities technologies and the right changes to our political process we can build the more thriving just sustainable and beautiful world that our hearts know is possible. And that is what I'll help us do as Vermont's representative in Congress. All right thanks so much for those opening statements. Now I want to turn to just a little bit being a little bit more specific about what are your top three priorities and what committee appointments you might seek in Congress. So why don't we start with you Liam. So my priorities at the top level would be a government that works no matter what other concern we have if that's for you how big tech is controlling all the information the public has access to or if it's reproduction or if it's inflation in the economy. We can't really solve those things well without a political system that brings forth the best in each other. And I would add to that that the economy should be an economy that works for everybody. And I think that's a matter of changing national priorities to focusing on education, health, housing and infrastructure and among that related to where I'm going next the top other priority is energy and the environment which are obviously deeply related things I know and care a bit about as a renewable energy professional. And I think we need a world that treats our natural environments as a sacred responsibility and a part of who we are. And that's I think best served by a committee appointed appointment on the energy and commerce committee to I'll share a fact. We have an economy that depends on energy as all economies do. And if we were to grow it at 3% a year we would be using the same amount of energy in the next 30 years as we have in the last 10,000 and that's impossible. And if we're not prepared for a transition to new kinds of energy because we only have 40 years of oil and gas left and renewables would take up to 72% of our land according to Harvard Professor David Keats. So I think these kinds of questions need to be at the heart of mainstream politics. Also I'd be interested in oversight and foreign relations. Cheers. Yeah, thanks so much for that. Sorry, we're trying to limit the responses to about a minute and a half. Can you just give us like a 10 second warning? Yeah, yeah, I was going to use the chat function. But if you want me to do a visual learn it visual. Yeah, yeah, that would be good. All right. So Erica, let's hear from you your top three priorities at any committee appointments you'd seek. Yes, my top three priorities are restoring accountability, transparency, and integrity to Washington. So that's why I support bills or I will submit my first year bills for turn limits for single issue bills. So no more of these 10,000 page omnibus spending packages where nobody reads it, nobody has any idea what's in it. Nope, every bill should have just one topic and one appropriation. And so on that, I'll say the committees I want to get be assigned to would be anything to do with appropriations and budgeting as an accountant by trade. I think that's one of the biggest things that's missing from Washington is is these folks don't really seem to understand how to balance budgets. We're running a deficit in our budget. So basically, we take in trillions of dollars less than we need for the budget that's being passed by our elected officials. They're literally spending your great grandchildren's future earnings. And I can't tell you how irresponsible I think that is. One area in particular I would love to be assigned to would be military appropriations. I would push to remove the National Defense Authorization Act and the Patriot Act and a number of these other military authorizations that just keep us at war in perpetuity without a real act of Congress. All right, thank you. Yeah, let's turn to another question that I know is on the forefront of a lot of folks minds today and that's one of constitutional rights. So given that the Supreme Court has recently overturned what was thought to be settled law. So in other words, the question of reproductive rights and the Dobbs decision, are you concerned about other rights that might be taken for granted kind of coming under threat also? And what role should Congress play, if any at all, in protecting these rights? So Erica, how about we get started with you? This is a this is a great question. I love it because it is an opportunity for us to talk about separation of powers and constitutional constructs. The Supreme Court of the United States is job is strictly to identify whether or not a bill or act of Congress is constitutional. And and so I think it's I think it's very important that the Supreme Court remember that that is what its job they are not to legislate from the bench. And I think that it's a really good opportunity to remind our our elected officials that we send them to Washington to to pass bills and to make law on our behalf. And if they think that, you know, abortion, whether it's abortion, gay marriage or any of these other things are so important that they that they we make sure we protect them. The way to do that is to pass it through legislation, not legislating from the bench, where it can just be overturned with future precedent and other court cases. So as a person who who benefited from loving versus Virginia in a interracial marriage, I would like to see that protected. But I also understand that as an example, marriage is a state institution. And we need to make sure that our states have the power and authority to protect their rights against the federal government. All right, well, thanks so much for that. Liam, what are your thoughts here on constitutional rights? Well, on the issue of the Supreme Court's overturning of Roe v Wade, I would be concerned that other settled law could be overturned by the Supreme Court, given that at least three of the justices, if not four, that voted to overturn Roe v Wade said that it was settled law and that they would not do that. So that that's, to me, a perjury. They perjured themselves in their oath to in their their committee hearings there. And so yeah, who knows what else they might consider overturning that they wouldn't be forthcoming about on their testimonies. So on the issue of abortion and how that's affected by what the Supreme Court recently did, I'd like to say that I agree with Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who said that access to abortion is central to a woman's dignity and that it is better decided by legislation than by courts. And also that the constitutional grounds for protecting abortion is probably better rooted in the Equal Protection Clause rather than privacy rights, which was argued in Roe v Wade. I think constitutional rights are extremely important and none more important to me than free speech. And that has come under scrutiny by how the big tech companies have colluded with the government to basically be the arbiters of what is truth and what is not. And so that is where my largest concern is at the moment in terms of constitutional rights. Yeah, right. Well, thanks to both of you for weighing in there. And I just want to remind those of you who are watching at home to please call in with your questions. We want to hear from you. You can call us at 802-862-3966. 802-862-3966. Right. So let's move to the next question while we wait for hopefully some callers to call in as well. The question about healthcare, which I know a lot of Vermonters are really concerned about because healthcare costs are nearly 20% of the US gross domestic product. And there seems to be no end to these costs increases. So what does Congress need to do to curb these costs and also assure us that we have quality healthcare? Liam, let's let you start this one. People are right to be concerned about costs of healthcare going up. Not only are the costs going up, but in my lifetime costs have doubled or perhaps tripled and we have worse care. We have epidemics of autism and obesity and chronic diseases of every kind. Allergies, asthma, everything is going up. That is a reflection of the health of the population. And Americans pay twice what Europeans pay. So what can we do? I think it depends on how large we set our sights. There's the more practical things like trying to work to pass the prescription drug price relief act so Americans don't pay twice as much as other countries like Canada. If we were to be bolder and have a more robust holistic vision, I think we could think universal healthcare seems to work for all these European countries and it doesn't bankrupt them as the right here in the United States is constantly saying universal care would destroy our economy. I don't think so. I think what we need is a healthcare system that is federally funded but locally controlled and democratically managed and that is what I would work to help create as Vermont's representative of Congress. Thanks for that. Erica, your thoughts on healthcare? Well, as I mentioned in my opener, I suffered from an illness that no one could identify for years. My husband and I did every single treatment and procedure that was recommended to us and we had to pay out of pocket because we lost our affordable healthcare when Obamacare was passed because prices just skyrocketed out of control. And so just as I found out I'm allergic to meat, which who knew that there was a tick you could get bit by that would do that, just as we were starting to financially recover from my illness, the government shut down for COVID and my husband's business was all but closed down. And so I understand the pain that people are feeling because I have been there. But what I do know is that one of the attributes of government-run healthcare is that they, it attempts to beat everything to everyone and it just can't. All that happens is we see this massive increase in costs and worse results. And so I think that we really need to have a serious conversation about the role of health insurance when it's not really insurance anymore. It is a third-party administrator for healthcare. And it's one of the reasons why as an example my doctor is actually moving to an all-subscription-based program because he can no longer treat and care for all of the patients that the insurance companies require him to see. And so we just, we need to have a real conversation about what's feasible and what's reasonable. All right. Thanks so much for those answers to the questions on healthcare. Now let's turn to criminal justice reform. What can realistically be achieved by Congress to curb gun violence in U.S. communities? Let's start with you, Erica. The question is what can Congress do to curb gun violence? Yeah, what can reasonably and realistically be achieved to curb gun violence by what does Congress do? Yeah, I think the first thing is the federal government needs to stay out of the lives of the American people as much as possible. We already were having a mental health crisis here in this country before COVID. And then the federal government came in and said, you're not essential, forced people to be vaccinated against their will to keep their jobs. And then that was continued by the state of Vermont. And I think this idea and what we've seen is that we've had a massive increase in deaths of despair, overdoses, suicides, and gun violence because people are now desperate and afraid and they're even more stuck and entrenched in what they're suffering with. And so this idea that a government created problem should then have a government created solution is unreasonable. What we need are communities that care about communities. We need organizations like Catalyst Collective across the country to be helping young people find their purpose. We need everyone to take responsibility for their neighborhoods and for their families. That is the only thing that is going to help the violence and despairer that we see in this country today. Right, thanks for that. Alia, what are your thoughts here on gun violence and if Congress has a role? Yeah, it is such a deeply interconnected issue with so many things. I would say I agree with Erica that mental health and the degradation of our communities is a part of why we're seeing this because there's been access to guns for decades and it's only as our economy has begun to dramatically shift with globalization and optimization and monopolization that we've started to see this breakdown where a person like an Adam Lanza or a Dylan Clybold can fly under the radar of their communities until it erupts into a tragedy. On the other hand, I believe most liberals don't really put enough value on the Second Amendment's role in allowing citizens not just to the right to self-defense but the right to defend against the government itself. That is the primary value of the Second Amendment to me because I've been a Marine who has seen firsthand people lie to put our country to war, destroying the lives of hundreds of thousands of people and I think it would be naive to think that those kinds of psychopaths hold that much respect for domestic civilians and that can only happen to foreign civilians. I believe on the other hand the right does underappreciate that the Second Amendment clearly connects the right to bear arms with being part of something that is well-regulated so I think there is a middle ground that honors the values of both sides but also illuminates their blind spots and if we're talking about standard policies I would support background checks and red flag laws as long as there's due process very promptly. I just don't think that those things can do that much without also looking at how our culture glorifies violence and the isolation and over-medicalization of a lot of individuals. Alright thanks for that thoughtful response so just a reminder for those of you watching at home again call in 802-862-3966 with your questions for the candidates and while we're waiting for your calls let's turn to foreign policy. So is there a limit to U.S. involvement in the Ukraine war with Russia and if so what is that limit Liam you want to take a stab at that one? I stand firmly against military involvement in Ukraine I think the United States needs to put all of its leverage economically diplomatically and with all of our soft power our cultural power on bringing both parties to the negotiating table as quickly as possible this is a situation that can escalate wildly out of control very rapidly by either nuclear weapons being the result of U.S. involvement shooting down Russian planes over arming over supporting the Ukrainian military or just a long protracted war both our total nightmares that need to be avoided and the only way to do that is to put all of our efforts towards negotiations and that means not just arming the Ukrainians as a given but maybe only arming the Ukrainians if the Russians refuse to negotiate and I think we also can't have this conversation about what's happening in Ukraine without acknowledging that the U.S. played a bear some responsibility for the support of the coup in Ukraine for decades of foreign policy that drove NATO to Russia's border which everyone who knows about foreign policy in Eastern Europe knows that was a red line not to be crossed and that's why George H.W. Bush promised Mikhail Gorbachev that they would not expand NATO to the east so there's important context to consider when we are thinking about Ukraine and no I do not support military involvement. Great thanks so much for that Erica let's turn to your thoughts on the war with Ukraine Russia's war with Ukraine. This is an area that Liam and I have a lot of agreement you know as a veteran himself and as a person you know every male member of my family basically was in the military and I've seen firsthand the devastation that people deal with when they're put in the war theater. We cannot ask to send our boys and girls to defend another country when we don't even fully understand the consequences of that decision. The United States has spent years and years and years operating these regime change wars trying to control and manipulate and choose pick winners and losers oh my gosh I sound like a broken record whenever our federal government picks winners and losers we often have bigger consequences to pay later and I think that we should be very careful about that. I think that with China you know our our F-35s were over in Europe ready to go we've got our navy headed to the to the sea around Taiwan because of China's aggressions what we see right now is a major move of our enemies for lack of a better word toward our allies some of whom are allies and some of whom are not but we cannot save everyone and the United States does not have an endless pot of gold to pay for all of these wars we need to protect our own shores. Alright thanks for those thoughts I'm really interested in your answers to the next question which at the earlier forum that we had with the candidates seemed to be the sort of most contested question that I asked during that forum so it's about the future of democracy so I'm interested to know what what do the two of you think about the future of democracy do you share the concern that our democracy is in jeopardy and if so what measures do you recommend be taken in Vermont Erica let's get started with you. I am worried about the future of our representative republic because we don't live in a democracy we live in a representative republic and I am concerned about it because the democrats in power are pledging to destroy all of our institutions as much as they want to say that it's republicans doing it republicans aren't the one saying we need to pack the court get rid of the filibuster add states you know etc and so forth so I am deeply concerned that the party in power right because let's be very clear the democrats control the house senate and the executive branch so the legislative branch and executive branch are both controlled by democrats and they are pledging to destroy all of our institutions they're saying that to protect our democracy we need to destroy all of the institutions I'm not okay with that I'm not okay with packing the court I'm not okay with getting rid of the filibuster which by the way the democrats use far more often than anybody else and so so this idea that there is a threat when again the democrats are trying to federalize our elections they are saying we're going to federalize and nationalize this that and the other thing you're trying to take states rights away I am deeply concerned about it and that's why my greatest goal is to help get moderates uh right of center camp I'm a libertarian moderates libertarians republicans we need to get as many right of center candidates elected to office as possible all right what about you Liam what are your thoughts here am I concerned about the future of democracy uh the name of my campaign the title of my website is rebirth democracy.com it's not Liam Madden for congress that is that is the central concern because I don't think we can solve any of our problems about a healthy democracy and we do live in a democracy a democracy means ruled by the people and a republic is a branch of that tree the roots are self-government democracy is like the name of the band and sometimes you can have an album called democracy and um and sometimes you know the the name of the band and the name of the album can be the same thing and that doesn't mean that they're referring to the same exact object um so when I hear a republicans say we don't live in a democracy we live in a republic that's like someone saying I'm not eating a fruit I'm eating a banana but anyway yes I'm concerned about um democracy Princeton University did a 2015 study finding that there is a zero percent correlation between the majority of the population likes policy and whether or not the congress passes zero percent that is a atrocious record we have Joe Biden and Donald Trump being the two contestants for the most powerful man in the world that is not the sign of a healthy democracy we have um when I probably politically awakened as a teenager George Bush was handed the presidency by a uh supreme court that didn't bother to count the votes in Florida we've we've have a long-standing problem with democracy and it's rooted ultimately in oligarchy and aristocracy and we need things like term limits I agree with Erica there we need things like election finance reform and we need some deeper understandings that technology can be applied to give people more access to the policymaking process and to allow us to bring forth the best in each other to not just have mob rule but to make sure that the ideas coming forth from the people are really the best ideas available to us okay thanks for that and I see us some some similarities but some differences there as well so we're just about out of time so uh I think that we've got we've given the voters a lot to think about um and I'm gonna give each of you an opportunity to talk for about you know 30 seconds or so to give a closing statement and just kind of leave the voters with what you want them what you want them to hear as they go into voting and we'll start with Liam Hey fellow Vermonters, Senator Patrick Leahy was speaking of me when he said I wish the officials in the White House and Pentagon had a fraction of Liam's honesty and courage my life experience shows that when a sacred value must be upheld that I am willing to sacrifice my own self-interest and the only way we can trust that a leader will have the courage to do what is right in the face of whatever the current bandwagon is is if they have demonstrated that living in truth and upholding our ideals is more important to them than even their life I have demonstrated this and I will continue to as Vermont's Representative in Congress all right thanks so much for your closing statement Liam Erica let's finish up with you um excellent I appreciate that first uh please everyone go to reddickforcongress.com redicforcongress.com and check out my podcast Generally Irritable we've got tons of videos talking about all of these topics you'll get a great idea about me and and where I stand and how I will represent Vermont as as your next congresswoman I will say that I am the candidate that is the most differentiated from all of the others I'm I'm not spout I'm not touting Bernie Sanders I'm not saying Patrick Leahy is is great I am the one candidate I am a third party candidate libertarian uh the the third largest party in in the nation and our whole goal and focus is liberty it's making sure that you have the government enough out of the way so that you can live and thrive and I believe that Vermonters are in the best position to make decisions for themselves and for their families not the government all right well thanks to both of you I'm so glad that we were able to get this election forum and get the two of you to be part of this conversation so thanks for sticking around and dealing with our technical difficulties earlier and thank you to those of you at home who have joined us um unfortunately we didn't have any callers tonight but you know I'm sure that the candidates would love to hear from you um and the questions that you can remain in questions that you have so thank you so much for tuning in to town meeting tv and our ongoing coverage of statewide and regional candidates and ballot items you can find this particular forum as well as many many more at www.ch17.tv so don't forget to vote on or before November 8th and remember that this year ballots will be mailed to all registered voters in the state and if you want to confirm if you're registered and we'll be receiving your ballot at home you can just visit the secretary of state's online portal at mvp.vermont.gov so thank you for watching and for sharing town meeting tv and if you're not already please subscribe to our youtube channel which is town meeting tv all right so thanks again thanks to the candidates for joining me and thank you to everybody at home and don't forget to vote