 Welcome to James Randy, Randy's million dollar challenge. Thank you, Randy Now I want to point out that we had two claimants because last year we had a claimant that Backed out at the very last minute. We had two claimants this year one of them backed out at the very last minute Luckily, we had a backup claimant for this now I also want to point out something else that we get all kinds of different claims You tend to probably think that the majority of our claims happen to be just people who claim to have psychic phenomena But sometimes we work with physical things like perpetual motion machines certain specific fuel savers maybe certain audio cables and Tonight we are going to be testing something along those lines It's not going to be your your typical challenge that you are used to before we get into that though There's a few things that I need you to do and I really really need you to do this Please because normally these type of challenges are not in front of a group of people The first thing I want you to do is to have respect for our claimant You can have respect for our claimant, please Please whatever you do have respect for the claimant. That's really really important to me You know keep your opinions to yourself right now In other words if there's something you want to laugh or you might think it's silly, please don't laugh Don't think it's silly. Okay, please. I ask you to do that from the bottom of my heart I'm asking you that the other most important thing is this please put your cell phones on Vibrant check it if you're not sure if you think you've already done it check it make sure that it's on vibrate We do not want any interferences in here if you have to leave the room for any particular reason I will ask you to do it towards the back and I will ask you to do it very very Quietly our claimant is a gentleman by the name of Andrew needles now. Um chip could you get Andrew to come in please if you wouldn't mind. I want to point out. This is Chip Denman chip is going to be on stage Yeah, that's fine chip is going to be on stage as well chip handles all of our statistics whenever it comes to a claim So thank you chip chips. We could not do this without chips input on these things as well I'm going to point out Jamie Ian Swiss Jamie in sister Swiss is sort of like my other half Really when it comes to these things could not do it without Jamie as well and Jamie is going to be on stage as an observer Chip is also going to be on stage as an observer. I have Matthew Baxter over here Matthew has been invaluable for this particular claimant and Matthew is going to be working on the board right there Just keeping track of how well we do I have Richard Saunders Who brought this claimant to me originally so and Richard's going to be involved I'm going to be sitting off to the side sort of observing and running the test but not touching anything if anything has to get Touched it will be Richard Saunders It will be doing that Brian Bonner who brought out 12 volunteers actually 11 volunteers up on stage on this claimant Claims and if you would read the first line for me, please Andrews me and Andrew needles this claim in his own words is as follows. I have created a form of micro chip Which he calls the dynastic sR chip that works with and enhances a person's natural energy field Resulting in significantly increased core strength and balance and is easily demonstrated through the standard kinesiology balance test he also states Yes, and he adds this chip requires no external power source other than a person's own energy field And there's also his belief that it quote emits no frequency other than its own natural capacitive Resonance reactants, which is different for each person Yeah, so basically this is one of the balanced bracelets And this is Andrew needles who's coming up on stage right now if you'll bring them up, please You have a baggie there and it has been in your site the entire time your bracelet in there There is a placebo bracelet. There's also two boxes that we're going to be using for this test I'm not going to go through the entire protocol because you will see it as it comes alive on stage for you So there's no point in me actually doing that I will point out and I want to ask you you have checked over the protocol You agree with the protocol correct and you have signed the protocol you absolutely you can step up to the mic if you'd like to and This has not been out of your site the entire time you've been watching it We've kept you in a room so to sequestered over there. Yes Yes, and Brian you've watched him and he hasn't gone out of the room hasn't been anywhere without you watching okay, all right I appreciate that I am now going to step off to the side because we always this Randy came up with this years ago And I think it's very very fair to all of our claimants They get to do an open test in other words They get to make sure that their product or their claim is actually working under the conditions that they normally try that particular claim So I will step off to the site over here if you would hand those to Richard, please Richard if you would remove the boxes and if you would remove both bands and thank you very much The darker band is the dynastic band. That is Andrews and the reddish pinkish band. That is the placebo band We have one individual that's number 11 and you've to what with every single one of these people You've made sure that there are no issues that they can work for this for you. Yes for your claim to perfect Can I get number 11 to come over and just stand inside of this box right here? Thank you And if you would just face me Good and which band would you like to work with first Andrew? Let's see Boban first. All right, so if you'll place that in the box And Andrews examined both of these boxes and in this case you can actually take it over to the claimant I mean to the the volunteer and Which hand do you want it in? He's going to turn around of course facing you in a second And then I just want to point out that there is a small line on the side And that's exactly where the chip falls inside of that box. Would you turn around and face the claimant place? Now the dynastic band Are you satisfied that it's working? Absolutely, we can move on with the actual test itself. Good, and you may be dismissed You may go back to and have a seat and watch for the rest. Thank you very very much for helping us Before we continue As part of the protocol I do want to point out that Andrew has agreed that he has to get 17 out to 20 trials And we 20 trials and there will be 17 out to 20 trials that he has to get correct However, we will be going through all 20 trials no matter what the result is in other words He can once he get three wrong, but once he gets the fourth one wrong He understands and he agrees don't you Andrew that at that point you have failed the test Well, your band has failed the test at that point, but you will continue all the way through after that, right? Yes, okay. Good. So can we get Andrew if you'll step up to the mic right there for now if I can get no Yes It is expected just so that you know that he will get 10 by chance because each trial is a 50-50 as you will see So what I would like you to do now Richard is I want you to take both bands out of the boxes, please and close the boxes And what we need to do is randomize those boxes up So I want you to place one on top of the other and place them inside of the bag Good and just give them a good mix and if you'll take one box out put it in front of a And the other box out place it in front of B And would you place a dynastic band in a place and then close the box? Make sure that the chip is against the line and place the placebo in B Place one on top of the other in any order Put them in the bag give them a mix take one out place it in front of a place Take the other out and place it in front of B Good well as volunteer number one if you'll come over here and just stand right there Good, I'd like to take both boxes again and place them back in the bag if you will Just want to make sure they really makes give another mix If you step over the volunteer Like it reach in with your right hand and take one box out, please And place it in your hand with the line against your palm Okay, put your arms out turn around face Andrew There we go Good if you'll turn around and face me please if you'll step over to 2b and just drop that inside 2b that's on the table, please Sideways like that Either way is fine. Yeah Good step over into the box Reaching the bag again, please Exact same thing place it on the inside turn around face Andrew step in the box Thank you place that in B And are you satisfied at this point? You can try a one more time. Yep. Thank you step up in the box face Andrew All right place that please back in a and you may have a seat. Thank you very much And at this point you're going to speak into the microphone once you've made your decision. It is final on this round a was the last one that you did Box a box a box a is a target if you'll remove the tubes, please Then would you open a I said down, please? Would you open B? The dynastic bracelet is in B. The placebo is in a back stores that a password fail That is a fail. Okay, would you do me a favor take both bands out of the boxes? You can do it fairly quickly close both boxes One on top of the other back inside of the bag give them a good mix Well The one in front of a one in front of B if you're a straight and a out for me, please. Thank you All right place the dynastic band in either box And with a chip against the line Yep And the placebo in the other box Both boxes on top of each other Back in the band bag Give them a good mix and if I get number two to come over and stand over here, please Thank you Great Richard take the bag over to If you would reach in and take one of the boxes out Place it with the line in your palm turn around face Andrew, please Andrew all right turn around please if you'll place that in to babe. Thank you And step over the box Reach back in the bag to the remaining box Again line against the inside of the form and turn around facing But then in put that in B, please. Thank you Andrew. You satisfied Which one repeat a B. Okay, if you'll take a please With a line against your form step back over there. Thank you if you'll put that back in a please And then take the In the line on the inside. Thank you Once the switch sides, okay, do me a favor to stand back by the mic for a second, please If you'll turn around and face me would you put the box in your other hand again the line on the inside? Thank you turn back around You switch switch sides or switch Switch bands. All right. If you'll step back over here, please and if you'll put that back in B Take a out in the same hand that you were just yeah Make sure that's on the inside the line. Thank you and step back in box All right, if you step back and put a back in its box, please Take B back out. That's box B. Put it back in B, please Andrew, you ready? Yeah, I'm gonna ask the volunteer to step back and have a seat if you will and Which one do you believe has the dynastic bracelet B B and Richard if you would open up a please Put it down, please and if you open up B Dynastic bracelet is in B. Would you mark that as a password failure, please? Here Can I have spectator number three step into the box, please? And if you would be so kind as to take the two boxes to stay right there close the boxes There's one on top of the other in the bag give them a good mix Take them back out place one in front of a one in front of B and if you'll place the bracelet inside, please Again the chip against the line That's good And the placebo bracelet in Thank you One on top of the other in the bag give you a good mix And if I get you to take your right hand just reach inside take one of the boxes out Take the line put it on the inside of your palm Good turn around face Andrew. Thank you. You're okay place that in a place Go back to the square reach in the bag Again, put it with the line towards the palm turn around and so thank you put it in B, please You didn't change bands again. Is that it? You wish oh back to a so if you'll take a bow, please. Thank you Place that back in a place You ready Andrew? And if you'll step back all the way over hold on if you'll step back to your seat, please Oh, you want to be again. Sorry about that It's understanding and be please run, please. You'll have a seat. Wait, wait, wait back to All right, which one do you believe is a dynastic bracelet be be Richard if you were to remove the tubes may please and be thank you Dynastic bracelets it is in a The C-bow is in B when you mark that as a pass or fail, please Thank you remove both bracelets from the boxes Close both boxes one on top of the other and both in the bag To move both place one in front of a one in front of B Dynastic bracelet in there, please and make sure it's up against the line. Thank you One on top of the other place them in the bag Next one can I get subject number four to step on over please all right step on up Take your right hand place it in there take one out Line against the palm turn around face Andrew. All right take that put it in a place Thank you, can I get you to straighten that out just a little bit so it faces you Thank you All right, and if you step back over there reach in Against the palm turn around please. Thank you Pop sides. All right Yeah Place that in B, please You ready to commit and run not yet. You want a Opposite side. Yep. Thank you which sides Switch sides, please All right, if you place that it back in a place Take be out which hand would you like it to be in? Put it with the line against your palm, please Thank you Right a one more time. Yep, and if you put it in your hand before you turn around, please. Thank you Yep, thank you, and then step back over there. Thank you. All right, if you'll put that back in there a please Thank you. You ready to commit Andrew. Yeah, thank you. You'll go back over there. Hold on one second, please So which one do you believe is a dynastic bracelet? Hey, you believe it's a it is a target And if you remove the tubes, please as you down. Thank you And be a dynastic bracelet is in a would you mark that as a pass or failure, please? Thank you remove the bands from the boxes Close both boxes One on top of the other Place them in the bag Randomize it, please remove both Place one in front of a one in front of B and place the bracelets in the boxes, please making sure That the chip does go against the line one on top of the other Back in the bag Randomize them again, please And place one in front of a and one in front of B if I can get number five to come on over place And just stand in the box right there Sorry, no, no, no. Oh, no, no, no, sorry. Yeah, he's got a reach. Yeah, put him in make some again, please Yep, and if you'll step over there, please I'd stay in the square. Yeah, thank you. It's a side take one out We're doing the line against your palm. Thank you and turn around. All right, if you'll put that back in a please in the tube Thank you step over to your box over there, please Face me reach inside the bag and remove the rainy one Against the palm, please the line turn around. Thank you All right, if you place that in B, please. Oh You want to do it again? Okay They said in B, please Take a same hand from Put that back in a please and if you'll take B place against your palm Step back over there, please Which side's pleased to face me, please? Put it in the other hand That's the palm turn back around. Thank you. If you'll pass it place it back in B, please take a And as you're facing this way, please put it against your palm Step back over there. Thank you Andrew from the box, please. Yeah. Yeah, thank you Which sites are right if All right, if you turn around face me, please. I just put it in the other hand And then turn back around. Thank you. Make sure it's on the lines on the inside Put it back in a please and then take B Same hand, Andrew Same hander Make sure the line goes against the farm. Thank you. Step back over there. Thanks. All right If you all bring that back over, please place it in B And if you would have a seat Thank you very much And the dynastic bracelet is in A or B. B. B is the target and would you remove the tubes from A and B, please? Let's see. The SIBO is in A. Dynastic is in B Walk with that to pass or fail, please. Thank you very much. Move both bands Those both boxes One on top of the other when you're done, please And then in the bag just randomize the boxes up in front of A one in front of B And place the bands in respective boxes Dip in the correct place and I would like number six if you would please step on Okay, step back please if you will take them both out One of the boxes is not closed properly. Thank you Yep, randomize the boxes, please Give them a mix Take them both out Correct place Number six if you'll step to the square please and I'd like you to reach in the bag Take out one box Line against the farm Turn around face to hander, please. All right, if you place that in A, please Reach in the bag Line against the farm turn around, please. If you'll put that back in B, please What does he want to do Richard switch hands or switch boxes? Thank you If you'll put that back in A, please take LB What are you doing? Yeah Yeah, we look from this end and Richard's looking at the same time to yeah, we're double checking I place that back in B, please Are you ready to commit Andrew? Yes, sir. All right, if you'll have a seat. Thank you And is a dynastic bracelet in A or B? B. It's in B And if you would remove the tubes Dynastic bracelet is in A The c-bow is in B. If you'll mark that please there's a pencil fail Thank you close both boxes One on top of the other and just randomizing please. Thank you One in front of A one in front of B Make sure it chips against the line One on top of the other In the bag and give a mix Everybody get number seven to step on into the box, please Good And if you'll take your right hand reach in the bag Take out the box Again, make sure it's against the palm of the line Turn around face Andrew, please. Thank you Place that in A, please Change hands Yeah, not yet Place it in A Thank you Step back over there Face us reach in Make sure the line goes against the palm turn around, please Place it in B, please. Are we switching hands or switching hands? Do me a favor. Yeah, switch hands Make sure the line goes against the palm, please Yep, and if you'll turn around. Thank you Put it back in there, please If you'll turn around face Andrew, please For chance the other bracelet if you'll put that back in its perspective too, please Thank you Hold on wait. Yep. Thank you Richard just Wait until he puts it back in there before you take the other please. Thank you. Yeah Yep All right, if you'll put that back in its soup, please. Thank you Take out A Again the line against the hand Face Andrew President, you ready to commit Andrew? Goes back in A That was A Yeah That was A. Yes. Are you ready to commit? Yeah. All right. If you'll have a C, please Uh, is the dynastic bracelet in A or B? It's in A It's in A Target is A Into the mic, please. Yeah, A All right, if you open up A, please And also open up B The CBO is in A And the dynastic bracelet is in B And would you mark that as a pass or a failure? And at this point you do understand that the test has failed But we agree that we would go through every trial until we do all 20. Correct? Good Um, if you would please take both boxes Close in place And if you'll randomize those one on top of the other Good remove them one in front of A One in front of B Dynastic bracelet goes in A with a chip against the side and lies. Yep The CBO And can I get number eight to come stand in the box, please? If you would place them both in the bag Get the bag out of good mix Yep Take your right hand, please reach in take out a box Line against the palm turn around face Andrew, please If you all place that back in A, please Step back to the box area there face me Reach in the bag take your right hand Take out the remaining box line against the hand, please And turn around Thank you All right, if you put that in B, please and he wants you to swap out and take A again, please same hand Mark against the palm. Thank you Step back over there If you're face Andrew All right, please step back in A, please You want to Step back face Andrew, please put that back in B, please What does he want to do Richard? Try A again same hand Yep And if you'll face Andrew, please All right, if you come back back in A, please You ready to commit Andrew? All right, if you'll go have a C Dynactic bracelet is in A or B B You believe it's in B? That's target is B If you will open A, please And if you would open B as well, please Dynactic bracelet is in A Procedure is in B Mark that as a pass or a failure Thank you All right, both bands out Close both boxes Again one on top of the other Front at A, one in front of B And again, please place the band with the chip against the line Thank you Mix them up and if I can get number nine to come over, please Uh, step back in the box, please Thank you And take your right hand in the bag Remove one Make sure the line goes against your hand All right, turn around Thank you You'll place that in A, please Get back in the square Face me Find against the hand Thank you, turn around Step back in D, please Switch hands or switch boxes? Just boxes Again, place it with the line on the inside, thank you And if you'll step back over there, thank you and face Andrew Which hands? If you'll face me Oh, okay You'll put that back in A, please Thank you Line against the palm, thank you Put that in B, please, the two A again Place that in A, please You ready to commit, Andrew? Yeah Thank you, I think I'll have a C The dynactic bracelet is in A or B B You believe it's in B? It's in B, Andrew It's in D B All right, if you'll open A, please The SIBO, an open B, please The dynactic bracelet And mark that as a pass or failure, please Excellent Uh, remove the bands, go ahead Close the boxes One on top of the other again Back in the bag Give them a good mix One in front of A, one in front of B And place the bracelets inside Give them a chip against the line Excellent One on top of the other in the bag And can I get number 10 to come over, please? And if you would stand in the box I'm gonna need you to reach in the bag with your right hand And remove one of the boxes Get in the line against your palm Turn around, please Thank you I'll place that back in A, please Thank you And go back to the box, face me Reach in with your right hand Line against the hand Turn around, face Andrew, please Thank you Place that in B, please Thank you Put that back in A, please Let's try the B box again A again You're gonna make sure the line goes against your palm, please Place that in A, please And if you'll take B back over there All right, place that back in B, please Ready to commit, Andrew? Yeah All right If you will have a seat And the dynactic bracelet is in B It's in B B is the target Do it open A, please And also open B The SIBO is in B The dynactic is in A Mark that as a pass or a failing Give me one second, please I just want to confer here one second All right Now you've agreed a protocol of going through all 20 I'm not gonna make them move about here Well, the choice is No, that's not that That can be the reason Yeah, yeah, yeah That's not your concern Your concern is whether you want to continue Or whether you would like to stop at this point Give me the option, a Dora option to stop It's entirely up to you All right, and what we will ask you to do is Here's a protocol We're just gonna make a slight No ket notation on that And ask you to sign that if you would please Yeah, Andrew, do you mind taking a few questions? Will we do that? So, um I can't Brian, are you here? Brian Brian, are you here? If you'll come up, please Real quick And I'm gonna ask, uh Chip, do you mind Are you doing this to me? Do you mind like Anybody that has a question taking that to you? So, first of all, I want to thank you very much I really did thank you very, very much for being up here And it's not easy I guess we'll take a few questions for a few people But I guess what I'm gonna ask you is What do you think happened? If you don't mind, just step over here Mike, you can remove the hand that Mike made You know, there's There's a few things It's never easy, obviously blind When you've got We obviously don't know as far But you get the placebo effect, obviously But it's It's also difficult because you have a lot of pressure That's being put onto somebody So when you're especially going back and forth and whatnot There's a lot of placebo in play As far as me doing it on them As far as the placebo effect on me Trying to test them out and on them And then it does become interesting As far as that's concerned I'm really trying to feed off what they do And to see how they feel And when you normally do your bracelets You say there's a significant difference in it But there didn't seem to be a significant difference While they were up on stage here And you did check everybody I just want to make very clear That you did get a chance to go through and pick people You eliminated probably about 10 to 12 other people That did, would not work for you Well, the people that we have on stage now Or the ones that I felt would respond well on stage But then you also have a couple Well, there's a couple things too You have people who And by the way, thank you everybody You guys got to work out Part of the problem too is I mean we're all on stage There's nerves for everybody There is also when you have that placebo band for example You're trying as hard as you could possibly do And then you get tired as well So then moving on to the next one You're trying, it becomes And I don't mean to be, you know And I really respect you being up on stage Doesn't that happen when you're normally using the band And not using a band? Isn't there sort of a placebo effect That could work with that too? I try to eliminate placebo I really do But with respect to this, for example When I do the boasts and I do the demos and stuff like that It's always, and as you've all seen It's with, without, without, with any order you like And there's, but there's a knowing That this is supposed to work or it's not Whether you believe in it or not You have one choice that this is it, right here Trying to play the guessing game is very difficult As far as all the bands are concerned But it should be a guessing game though, should it? No Well, placebo is a very interesting thing It really is For example, if you tell somebody They can bench press more weight, they probably will It's very interesting And I will take some questions I'm now just trying to understand myself Of what you're saying Because I'm not fully sure I fully understand Because I think by having it blind You almost get rid of the placebo Because they don't know if they have it or not, right? No I mean, it's not placebo I think placebo would play more If they knew they had the bracelet Or if they have it Yeah To be fair, absolutely both Because on both sides Because in part of the way thing too is If I'm doing a demo and they have nothing And they know they have nothing Then it's This is what you are Right then and there And I've done it Taken it off It's interesting Yes, but they don't know They have nothing on them So then when they get it It's whether or not they believe it works You know, me putting my own effort into it My, the placebo effect I'm going to put in As far as here up on stage I fully admit I mean There's a couple times I flat out You know Thinking I was right on one Then I go to the other side Or I go back to that one And then I'm changing my mind Because of how it felt I have one more quick question Because I do want to take questions from the people there And then we need to get this signed And we have a few other things we need to do before we leave So do you believe that your bracelet still works? Absolutely, and I'll give you the reason why My first test before I ever came here was As blind as possible On a bench press Added weight so it couldn't do it You know, found out my maximum Added weight so that I could not do it So I took different bracelets Put them into a pouch And when I hit the right pouch My bench press increased by 20 pounds That's what the marker was Max plus 20 Over and over and over again When I hit the right bracelet I did it When I didn't, I couldn't But there is no placebo effect on the machine There's only on me Whether or not I'm going to be able to do it And as we all saw Man, as great as the participants are There is the excitement There was a couple times where people would shift It gets crazier here on stage There is another 12 months before you can reapply But you could and maybe we could do that So I'll test like that instead Let's take a couple of questions Some people over here, please If you wouldn't mind Yeah, hi First of all, kudos to Andrew For playing by the rules and agreeing to this thing Which, you know, must be a bit stressful I have a question about How you're guarding against somebody Coming in with an RFID chip on the placebo band and having a confederate Somewhere scanning it So that they know Yeah, we went back and forth on this a lot We actually examined one of his other chips It was really a huge concern for us Especially with technology It's something to talk about You know that I'm really always concerned About his technology And so as a result We really, really, really did guard against that I'm not going to go into exactly everything That we did right now There's just not enough time for me to do that Just like there's not enough time for me To go through the entire protocol and procedures But trust me, that is definitely something That we were looking at very, very closely And it's one of the reasons Like since 4.30 we've had Andrew Under observation very closely And the people that he has with him Are in the back way In the back over there So, yeah, but that's a great question I think Andrew is actually signing a change Right now And then we'll get to your question, please Yes You talk on your website about how the Shuman resonance is What the bracelet affects Without giving away any trade secrets Does your Chip somehow take the Shuman resonance And magnify it physically? Or does the circuitry somehow emulate it? That's where it's inaccurate, sorry I've actually got three products Two there on the site The pendant actually emits Shuman resonance And that's what you're referring to The chip that's in the bracelet is completely passive Is there so it's not emitting anything Is there any special manufacturing process That goes into the chip? Or is the effect basically through the circuitry itself? Or is it a physically different chip Than a standard watch chip? Yes, very much No, I'm not going to tell you And completely different Thank you very much for coming Thank you Nice question, please I have a two-parter for you I'm really curious as I watch you do all this Why aren't you wearing your band? They won't let me They wouldn't let you? Okay And secondly You do Do you have someone who's performed the test on you Have you like, you know I would love You want the answer on that one? I'd love to do the test on you I love it, check this out You want the absolute truth, this is the truth and I love it I've been, every time I go to the mall or the outlet stores There's always somebody selling on a band Every single person said the same thing I have great balance Because of what I have on But before they knew I had it on So yeah, I've had many people do the demo on me And when you have other people do the demo on you Do you find a 50-50 response or do you Here's the thing, this is the absolute truth The ship that's in it is not going to work for everybody I'm sorry It doesn't work for everybody But it will work for the majority of people that I find Now And you know that it works for you Let's take it You know that it does work for you Yes But as far as what you're asking as far as That 50-50 response That's a 50-50 response based on me Everything I bring to the table Everything they bring to the table at 7.30 at night It is difficult I admit that wholeheartedly But I still came up on stage to do it But at the end of the day Try it out Don't let me be the one to tell you, try it out Well, what I would like to say is If you're hanging around maybe after or something I'd like you to put a band on And I'd like to test it myself And play your role with you if you're interested Yeah Thank you Um, I'm gonna take just the next three questions If you don't mind I'm sorry Because I think you just walked up So yeah So let's, yep, thank you I'm just curious If you have any, what special schooling or classes You would take to learn about the Schumann effect And all these other things that you're claiming About your band The first part of it is I did what I would want anyone to do on their own Pick up a book and read And I made that wholeheartedly I've, the number of books I've read are phenomenal With respect to that The research articles that have been written by Whether it be NASA Or different universes that have gone through That's kind of what I went with And then the studies that I've done Using an EEG, pulse oximeter and a heart rate Those are all things that I used on top of that So as far as background of schooling Nothing on this But there again, pick up a book, read, learn Do all those things And did I answer the whole thing? Yeah, okay, thank you Hi Andrew I've seen the applied kinesiology test done On many other types of products And the one glaring thing that I always see Is that the product is always put on the person's second And that, you know, from testing We've done them with the Infinite Investigations Group in Los Angeles We've seen that that sort of increases your odds To pass if you're the second one So my question is Have you ever tested it routinely with Your product going first And then taking it off and testing second Without the product on? Absolutely And I definitely agree with you I'm not a fan of the way people use Or rather abuse applied kinesiology The statement of muscle testing I'm a huge fan of bench press, squat, whatever it is As much as I could possibly do Trying to be perfect as I can But there again with as many problems as this has As many placebo effects as there are As many as the fact that I go back through A, B Go back to A, it becomes difficult Let alone I get tired and I'm not perfect So I do understand what you're saying It's not perfect on that whatsoever But yes, I have done the before and afters And do you find then when you test the band first And then take it off for the second test That it changes the results ever, you know Honestly, when not this scenario The scenario of me not being tired First of all, having one person Even with a fake band looking at it, whatever it is It's tense to the question, yes Having it on before, after, every other time Whatever it is, I still get the same results But it's also a lot more control on my part With one person at one time Looking at differences before and afters Setting that motion and that tension the same way Slowly at first, gradually And not having a big arena of people So yes, I have the same results I'm going to move on to the next case If you don't mind, because we had low on time here So thank you Yes, you speak a lot about how you are confused By the placebo effect Under these conditions, correct? Correct Are you then saying that you cannot differentiate Between the effects of your band and the placebo effect? There's actually more than that But that's a statement, yes The placebo effect will give somebody Normally a certain amount of boost and strength Or energy, whatever you want to call it To bench press a certain more weight, whatever it is The problem actually is if you start adding in That many variables Not just the placebo effect on Not knowing which band it is Which is interesting in itself But being on stage for them Being on stage for me Score keeping as you go across It's a lot of variables that add into it So you're no longer taking just one placebo effect As in someone doesn't know which band it is You're taking all sorts of different variables And honestly, it's what throws me off Yeah, I do want to book I can judge every time Yeah, I just want to point out one thing That you did agree to that protocol And it was something you thought that you could do And it was pretty sure that you would be able to do it So I just want to point that out So, you know what? Thank you very, very much I really appreciate it You can take it now, you can take it now Yeah, had you ever passed One of the protocols was that We would actually keep the band ourselves But you can take it with you, yeah All right, thank you And again, just that way I want to thank Baxter And I want to thank Brian as well Thank you both very, very much Richard, thank you very much And Chip, thank you very, very much And you guys, we don't have a seat Because we've got something we're going to do real quick If you don't mind So, yep, yep, thank you very much And you may walk out that way with them If you wouldn't mind, so thank you And thank you very much to our subjects I'm going to get rid of them I don't want to get them attention You could not have done this So thanks for all your help today Yeah, I want to thank all of you And if you could just follow Baxter that way We would appreciate that Thank you all very much So we also had another applicant And we had a little bit of a presentation That Baxter and Brian were going to do We just don't have enough time to do that right here It's kind of fascinating We will show that and tease that for maybe next year And speaking of teasing for next year We have something else that we want to talk about And there's a little segue there, huh? Which is why you're standing here right now I have no idea why I'm standing here now Except I so enjoy being near you Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah So at the very beginning, you guys saw the nightline test That Yeah, do you know what we're doing? Do you know what we're doing now? All right, good I'll let you go Just now, you know Well, is this on? Well, we showed you the nightline story For those of you who may have missed it Or you would like to see a refresher Actually, that nightline did a couple of segments We were involved with The second segment we were directly involved with That Vanacheck was in Was about What was the other segment actually that wasn't a test But that was There was a segment where they interviewed me About talking to the dead And other psychic phenomena And things like that Right, they also talked about the TV show The Kid Psychics The Kid Psychics, yeah The focus on that was Was that the second focus? I know, because I'm trying to just Remind what the other segment was Anyway, there were two segments about the JREF In the nightline special Plus another segment about Van Prague That was pretty devastating In this particular segment that you saw About the Million Dollar Challenge We did something that we've talked about for a long time But hadn't done before And that's the interesting distinction We just want to show to you Which is that in general In the tradition of the Million Dollar Challenge Claimants come to us And based entirely on their individual claim We design a test A challenge that both sides can agree to Is fair That's exactly what you saw happen tonight A perfect example We listened We didn't put anything in front of him That he had to do randomly That was our choice or our idea We said, what's your claim? And we designed a protocol that everybody agreed to But in order to provide a different kind of flexibility When Nightline came to us And wanted to do a test on camera For the Million That was not a preliminary test like this But actually for the Million on the line We in the subcommittee Including Chip and Banna Checking myself We designed a series of off-the-shelf tests That seemed to be sort of compatible With the average psychics Or mediums Storefront psychic whatever Claimed abilities So that instead of them coming And us having to design a specific customized protocol We would say, well look What's your ability? Is it astrology? Is it palm reading? Is it mediumship? Is it tarot card reading? Is it clairvoyance? Which was a really nice one that we didn't get to use We have these tests ready and waiting Here's how it would work You look it over Do you think this is a fair measure of your ability? And then we take the test for a one shot But let me stop you right there real quick Because that's an important thing In the past You know, we've always been a little bit afraid Of the fact that Psychics can always come back and say Well that's not what I normally do Which is quite often what they say Even after they've said they can do that That is what they normally do They say that's not what I normally do So we've missed many many opportunities To actually do TV shows Because it takes a long time to put that protocol together And TV always wants that Can you test for the million on the camera Make it easy, etc So we put these off the shelf tests together But we made sure that we had some very specific questions That we asked them ahead of time Right and each time we add Before they submitted to the test We asked and they show this on camera But we asked Do you think this is a fair test of your ability? Yes Do you think how confident are you? Are you confident you can pass this? How confident do you think you are? And invariably everyone would say Very confident I can pass this And if there was any hesitation As a matter of fact Bad I'd check with them and say Well wait if you're not confident Or if you don't think it's a fair test No reason for you to take the test Why would you take the test? We'll set up, we'll work with you And work on a protocol Exactly And so we ended up with this off the shelf Set of tests that we designed For these various things And then Nightline advertised the local psychics In New York City Now they were going to circulate these flyers To storefront psychics in Manhattan About I forget how many they count Or plug more than 40 And in our lead up discussions We all said They're not going to get anybody There's no way that people running storefront psychics Storefront psychics Running storefront operations Are going to show up The majority of those people don't even want the They don't want the I was kind of You know what the attention They exist Right And they're there for a different kind of game They're there for trying to get people's life fortunes And so on So but what happened was They somebody One of those psychics passed the flyer Along to a local new age store Well it was interesting because Now there's this sort of other class Of psychics and mediums and so forth Who work within that new age community And they tend to be believers Or as in a long time jargon goes shut eyes People who are sincere Most people show up for the million dollar challenge Invariably most of the time More often than not are sincere Their intentions don't really matter to us at all In terms of designing the test But the fact of the matter is Is that willful frauds don't generally want to be tested And there are all kinds of things that get tested Notably for example If you look at the dowsing tests that Randy has done Over the years Invariably dowsers come in Who believe they're there What they're doing is based on the yirigomoto response It's involuntary They're not aware of it It's generally not a deliberate manipulation And these are the kind of people who show up to be tested So interestingly enough The circulating through the new age store A number of people showed up for the test Who had various claimed abilities And we ended up testing Tarot reader Palm reader And several who claim mediumship I think it was like five people we tested If I'm not mistaken It was the people you saw standing there Even though they said there was only three Right And now the mediumship was a real question Because that is one of the most common things In that new age community That people claim That people do They're in touch with mediums It's talk to the dead And it's not These are not the superstars Like you see on TV Who may or may not be deliberately engaging In some kind of deception But these are people who often have Some sincere ability of what they're doing And so how do you test for that? So the test we designed Is actually based on an old magic trick Or a mentalist trick That's known as a living and dead test Which was We presented them with envelopes 12 envelopes 11 of which had Or actually it was 10 envelopes And it was 12 trials It was 12 trials It was 10 envelopes 9 of which had photographs of random living persons And one envelope had a photograph of a dead person And a famous dead person Just kind of for fun And we asked them And it was always different Each trial Yeah we had Right It was not the same set every time So we had different dead people Different live people Et cetera Lincoln Elvis You know the people You want to talk to And so And then we asked And I'll tell you I have to tell you That we all have a bat Most of us in the community Have a background in magic Chipped them And there's a background in magic The DJ grows the So I remember when You and I brainstormed this test And then I called Chip And said Okay how about this Here's the catalog we've got And we have this idea to add this one What do you think of this And I described this And Chip went Well it sounds like a magic trick And I said It's only a magic trick When they get it right So the fact of the matter is Is that the ones who came in And claimed mediumship We described the test to them Here's the idea Do you think you could do this It's not for us to explain the mechanism And they said Yes And they said They could commune with the spirit And the spirit would tell them And whether it was the spirit Of the person in the envelope Of the photo Or whether it was their spirit Mean guide Or whatever that They all said it was in the room With their abilities And they all said they would do well Right So and this is the bottom line This is what we designed these tests And fortunately we had The support of a pretty skeptical producer Unfortunately it was not the only producer But nevertheless we had The thing was conceived By a genuinely skeptical producer Which when I first heard We had a skeptical producer I was like That's a paranormal claim because Believe me Believe me Really seriously it wasn't until I got to New York And actually talked to the guy And went okay All right All right now I believe So the point was Was that he understood What we had to go through Because the TV it's like Okay can we just do this once And then get the thing And then go you know go And no we have many trials We have to do And this is what it is And it's our million bucks Not yours He's like can you hurry it up It's like no Yeah exactly Can we hear this up No So anyway But we had this very interesting afternoon Of the The tarot test The The palm reading test And several mediums Several mediums yeah And what they showed in the final In the final result was Was not bad I mean as television goes For these kind of things It's certainly the best coverage We've had about the million dollar challenge In quite some years And that was a great moment And you know the reason The reason And yes and some good moments And overall you know reasonably fair But with the understanding that Of course we know that They're all going to alibi themselves Afterwards And then unfortunately With the alibiing We don't get to see them Each and every one of them saying This is a fair test of our ability And yes we're going to be successful So they get to So now they're all saying Oh that's not a fair test It's working with paper and so on And the thing about it is The tarot readers And the palm readers They're alibiing afterwards Which I don't think we saw much in the show But they're all alibiing All had to do with Well you know but When I'm When I really do this I'm working with a live subject And we're interacting And it's like Well yeah Why should that make a difference If the tarot cards are telling you Right If the lines in the hands are telling you It's making a difference Because they're getting all this feedback In a psychic reading You know So What Jamie is trying to say What's your point Very shortly Up on the website We are going to stick A bunch of these off the shelf tests Up there for psychics to take And if they want to take them at TAM They can't Well that was your segue That's exactly where we were going Well maybe if I was psychic I would have known what the hell you were talking about Because last year we did talk about this So yeah Yes and yes We will post those And those will be useful tools And we hope you have a chance to use them again And continue with the million dollar challenge In sort of these two channel approach The traditional million dollar challenge Of customizing tests To match a claim It's exact claim like this And on the other hand These kind of off the shelf tests For one shots On the million dollar price And if we get a lot of them We may just do a lot of them in another room And do a main one up here We haven't sorted that part of it out And then the other thing That we're actually looking at right now Is allowing some psychics to actually come here And demonstrate their ability As part of the application process Right because in the preliminary application process They can just demonstrate They can show it to us on video And so forth And we're open to that Yeah it's kind of like the little kidney thing we did last year Where it really wasn't an actual test Basically it was just demonstrating her ability And that would be part of the application processing If they passed that Then they would actually move on to the preliminary test And then go into a formal test I have to say I think you got a little bit of a nice taste tonight This particular test I'm actually pretty happy with how it turned out And I don't mean by the fact Whether it was a pass or fail But I mean just sort of the procedure You know where you're trying to plug all the holes It's not that we're not worried That there's a paranormal event Is going on Or the paranormal claims so much As you're worried that maybe we didn't think of something Maybe we were foul holy human We're trying to figure out Solve the puzzle Did we create an effective protocol And as the thing It's not until the thing starts unfolding real time That you know tonight I'm quite honest I thought Hey this is pretty good I like it It's a clear demonstration It looks as fair as it actually is You know And I think you got a real sense Of kind of what it felt like When we were doing the nightline test I'm going to repeat one quick anecdote If you were here last year I already told you this But I enjoy it so much I'm going to tell it again Which is that when we were doing the Mediumistic test This is something about me right It's got to be No, no it has nothing to do with really It's not about you It just so enjoys Honest And so we're doing the medium test And let me tell you This is a stressful day We're testing five psychics We're doing repeat trials It's a million dollars On his and my neck And it was I've had easier days in my life And so we're now on the medium test And of course they have to get They have to get nine right Out of 12 trials So once they fail four times It's over And we're just starting the medium test And I was pretty much an observer You know I was You see I'm hardly on camera Because it's pretty much my mission In life to make him famous And so Right there See what I'm talking about Right there He could not resist Right there So anyway So I'm still Off camera like this I'm watching all this stuff And now you know she comes out She does her woo-woo And they each had a little different thing That they did Some weight their hands And some whatever Whatever they did So she does her thing Like this and finally Oh wait wait There was this Yeah there was that one There was that one Yeah exactly And then the next The next trial was that one Yeah there was that And that was the one that had the excuse That the reason she didn't get Elvis Was because Elvis Light doesn't like to think that he's dead Right Right he likes to think of himself His spirit is alive He's you know Yeah Right and that's why And on the second trial I was like Well I asked the spirits for a number And they told me four They just didn't tell me that it was Because it ended up being The fourth from the right Four from which left And she says they enter front So I said Well next time you need to ask him From the left or from the right He did He did He offered This was the moment This was not the story I was going to tell But this was one of my favorite moments Because he I was trying to help Beautiful human being it is Offered the psychic advice On how she was communicating With her spirit And that was the moment Where I kind of went on tilt Off camera you're doing what What are you saying? What? So but anyway But my favorite moment Was this thing when It's the first trial The day I think right First one of the first trial First trial of what's going to be a long day But we've had hours of setup And prep and all this stuff And I mean it's insane And getting the TV people To go along with everything And understand everything Oh my god so stressful And finally we're ready to go And she comes out And she does the thing And now she says it's this one Very different Very definite it's this one And he opens up the envelope And she's right And I watched the blood Drain from his face And I'm going And now I'm starting Even to suspect Janie And he's like oh this how it's going to be And but it's all we're on camera And everything is serious with respect Phone so we're all dead pan We're just not showing anything And now we have to sequester The psyche each time To reset for the next trial So now we take her off And we sequester her in the room And we come back in and I'm like Oh the look on your face dude That was worth the price Of the trip to New York Okay I hope we get seven more Like that I told you see I told you It was yes But you know but I'm going to point out In the context Last important point In the context of my talk yesterday That these people Wait which talk The one you probably missed Because you were doing something important It doesn't stop it's all dead Now you turn on me Okay All right yeah Yeah They're all depending on you So When you watch these people Come up with these explanations And as they fail more and more They come up with more and more Sort of desperate and creative explanations The important thing to understand is They're not lying necessarily They're not necessarily feel That they're engaging in any deception Cognitive dissonance is a known Psychological phenomenon It's not even recently discovered one You've discovered a lot more about it Over the years But if you ever read a classic Book When prophecy failed Fascinating book That you could no longer do That study today Because of the tightening Of professional ethics But the two anthropologists The sociologists who infiltrated A cargo cult End of the world cult In the fifties And they assume And it's the idea that they infiltrated And were undercover for like a year That you could never The scientists would never do Social scientists would never do today And they wanted to wait and see And when that when the prophecy failed They assumed it would destroy the cult People would fall away And in fact it didn't Right And this was this identification Of this idea of cognitive dissonance Which you know millions of years Of evolutionary psychology has Or of evolution And neurobiology right Has created as a psychological phenomenon The human being It's a protective defense mechanism It helps us survive Because we all deal with this With these have to deal with dissonances About the real world Versus our own idea of ourselves And that's what you're seeing It's a live You know when we were there It's a live cognitive behavioral experiment To watch people do this And you know that guy Jesse We really liked him We did Sincerely He was so charming And so confident You know and our claimant tonight Is confident And um you almost You know there was a part of us You almost wanted to see This this guy Jesse like Get it right If it wasn't a million dollars on the line But you know because He just was a charming guy Who I think he was doing something good And enjoyable and positive He gets positive feedback about it And you know all his stories And banner tickets tipped off And I understand when towards the end of the test You can see the guy trying to Cover himself Or you know I was close to this one But there's another instance right there Because he as he's opening As you're going to it He changes and says It's a live one isn't it So he can get that Right And was there What you don't see Is in one of them he goes And I start to open And he sees it's a live one He goes as if pointing in another one Which was not turned out I knew it's going to be the same But was one of these two etc Is that deceptive Is it willfully deceptive Yes maybe it is But even so You know it is this kind of Self protective thing And what's interesting What should be interesting to us as skeptics Is not just whether the paranormal claim Is real or not Because quite frankly Don't we have a pretty simple Confident answer to that But what should be interesting to us And what we should be interested in Is why does that happen How does that happen Why do people become victims How do people become victims Right and understanding that And bringing some empathy to that process And I really when we ask you to be Respectful to these subjects Okay we're not just asking Because we want to be polite Yes that's part of it But we really This was Randy His entire career If you ever watched him On a tv special Dealing with a believer Directly Or dealing with someone who was sincere Now I'm not talking about the outright phony con man Okay then he could Then he was a fire It was a hell fire But other than that Always respectful Kind empathetic It's really important If you don't get that I don't think you get what we're really trying to Everything about what we're really trying to do here I think as a skeptic You need to realize that many of these people That do these things Or believe in these things Are quite often victims themselves And we can't just go after them And call them the bad guys Because they're not Many of them are not Many of them are just simply self deceived At least from my perspective So yeah Buddy I love you Thanks for coming I hope this was a suitable ending for your finale To TAM 2012 Come back next year We'll try and give away a million bucks again Thanks Thank you