 Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening wherever you're hailing from welcome to another episode of the level up hour here on open shift TV I am Chris short executive producer of open shift TV and I am joined by a bevy of Red Haters this morning But the Red Hatter with the most right now is Langdon White the illustrious one. How are you this morning Langdon? pretty good pretty good Yes, I'm Langdon White and we are excited to invite some guests today But we're gonna, you know hit those slides and then maybe I can't remember how we do it the best You know hit the slides intro and then slides. All right, so there's not people sitting here for no reason exactly exactly so Today we have we're gonna talk about some of the Kind of training department, you know, it's always a hard group to kind of name but we're gonna talk about kind of what they do and Why you might be interested in checking out what they do But I also want to probe a little bit into what Like how they do the job because I think it's really interesting So first up what we have. Well, I'm gonna slaughter last name. So I'm just gonna go with Michael and Chris No confusion. Yes, just refer to me as short right and we'll be fine. Yes Yes, this six foot four short guy and You know, so if you wanted to go and as as we've discussed on the show in the past Red Hat titles are a lot of fun and challenging. So Michael, what is your title? And what who do you actually work or you know, what group you work? Who is your daddy? And what do you do because we change the names of the groups of the titles of the stuff like every other Tuesday I don't know. I mean, I would say I'm a curriculum developer my my official title shoot. I don't know That's part of the fine. Yeah, I'm a curriculum developer and I work for the GLS GLS global learning services More part of the curriculum team. So there's a and that's kind of a large umbrella that involves the developers It actually involves certification But but I'm one of the developers who works on creating classes. Nice. I used to be downstream of that I used to be an instructor. So I was an instructor for 10 years And so that that kind of got me into wanting to switch over to this side Yeah, so I'm a curriculum developer. Okay Awesome. Is that just out of curiosity? Is that what they call the same kind of job in other companies? Jen really speaking or in your experience? Um, is it is there a curriculum developer like yeah, it is re association or something, right? Oh, I'll tell you I get a lot of things from LinkedIn Yeah, I think I think that's that's pretty standard and the one website I have open but muted at all All right, so Chris, how about you not short? Tell us a little bit about yourself Probably shorter than he is but but my name is Chris. My last name is impossible for me to say My last name is Kai you what you're not supposed to use all the vowels vowels or like a suggestion pick one or two But my last name is everyone so it's not supposed to be said by human At least it's not Kai you which is what I was afraid of because nobody likes Kai you I've still got some of my hair He's helped a lot of people pronounce my name correctly, so just add an X on the end and you're on good Right. I'm also a curriculum developer within GLS global learning services and a very similar on ramp to the team Which was a former walk-in life as an instructor downstream from red at a student before that learning from this curriculum So kind of an exciting walk of life to weave into the creation of the content that helps on ramp People for their careers or unlock new skills in these technologies. I will say you know all all both joking and serious at the same time It's like, you know, one of the lovely things about open source, right is If it's annoying you if it's broken, you're the one who has to go fix it So in other words, you know if you're taking a class and it's not you know, it's not everything you hoped it could be You could go become a student instructor, right? And then if that's not it, you know everything it could be then you go and become a curriculum developer, right? So it seems like you've just been sufficiently annoyed throughout your career That's what I'm hearing Yeah All right, so now I'm gonna share the slides just to introduce the show And they are as always an ugly They're not very They're very red for me. They're very well. I mean it is red hat. I I agree, but All right, so this is the level of our where we generally speaking talk about Containers and why you might find them interesting or cool, but then we also randomly delve out into random other topics For example today's topic Excuse me, but before we talk any more about that talked about it a little I'm Langdon White. You can find me on Twitter at Langdon with one and Chris is Chris short A much easier to spell except that it has two S's in the middle For sibilants is my theory and We also currently run a discord server and you should Join that if you want to kind of chitchat with us outside of the show And you know it kind of like every other I think Communication medium it kind of rises and falls about how much traffic is going on over there but yeah, definitely check us out over there and And Yeah, so that's about the show in general a little bit more about the show in general I really should move that a first part of this slide to the prior slide probably but If you want to know more about the show and the program that it's a part of you should go check out red dot ht slash level up hour Where you know, we actually have and we're talking about training today We actually have some access to some free training Or or at least discounted training as well as like some discounted or free licensing You know, so there there are some there are some things that we Deliver as part of the program that you might be interested in I Also understand speaking of things related to the show that we are and But I feel like I keep saying this but the swag is about to land in the cool store It has completely new color theme. We're supposed to be doing new slides to do the new color theme so We're not gonna tease it until it's available. So, you know, you heard it here first, but if you check it out You've been hearing it here first for months. So exactly exactly. We are like I'm willing to say we are very close So today we're talking about certifying container pros, which is a you know pretty good name for Basically talking about how do you go through that kind of certification process talking about it? Maybe some training like I said at the beginning of the show. I'm interested in like How do you develop these curriculum because I'm for curricula? I guess because I always find that You know, how people do their jobs interesting So and then we have shown us from last time in the usual place under episode 33 where we covered the recap of Summit and Cube County you and don't forget there's another Summit coming up in what like Three or four weeks. It's I want to say it's June 16th rings a bell So where there'll be more kind of in-depth sessions We'll cover that a little bit kind of before and after I think mostly after for this one You know, but please feel free to let us know what you're looking forward to or what you might be interested in talking like seeing there and Maybe we can talk about it in this episode like immediately before We'll be dark that week though like the rest of the channel Because we don't want to distract you from going to Red Hat Summit Awesome this time because it's actually break out some stuff like that. Right, right. Yeah So much much more kind of in-depth deeper dive stuff less key-nody so yeah, definitely check it out and That's it. I think for the slides now, I just have to find the window that lets me stop sharing It moves around if you have multiple Monitors yeah, it moves around right so you have to like hunt for it every time so Getting started Let's talk a little bit about You know, so one of the things that I think a lot of people don't know about and is kind of new is Do you want to talk a little bit about that learning subscription thing that's been going on that's rolled out? Or is it or do you want to talk about one of the yeah, like kind of what's what's the idea there? Because I know we've actually been asked about it on the show before a lot My I can jump in with that so the learning subscription is You have the ability to have all the Red Hat's courses available to you kind of in one package and it's designed for You know student who's planning to learn at their own pace and they can jump in from class to class and You know with that learning subscription lots of the classes have videos So there's a video classroom in fact Chris and I were both involved this week in filming a course called do 250. It's called the open practices For the DevOps journey and so classes get filmed and If you're if you prefer to have an instructor teaching you the material Again, it's video, right? But you've got that option. So or if you prefer to just read through the content And then perform the exercises. That's that's your choice, too I think one of the great great things about The learning subscription those that you don't have to configure a development environment, right? So that's that's part of that got access to Each class has got it's classroom environment you spin up and you can blow it away You know, there's it's a sandbox, right? You don't have to worry about am I screwing up You know this the server over here, and I've got to get that back. It's a complete sandbox. So Yeah, that is cool I mean there even the reset on like you want to do two different You know kind of training exercises right even just that reset is often a challenge I was just complaining actually about one of the cloud services that I use their command To create a bunch of stuff and then I use their command as well to delete a bunch of stuff late or sorry I you know, I said create this thing then I said delete that thing. Oh and then the next day I was still paying about ten dollars a day for all the things. It didn't actually delete and I was I know this cloud Not mentioning any names But yeah, so so why don't you tell us a little bit about like how do you? Figure out what belongs in one of those kind of classes sure Well, honestly, we're that's not much. I mean that's part of our decision part of not but each There's an architect in the case of Openshift related classes, so there's a We are our teams divided into different practices We call them and one of them is kind of focused on open shift one of them's focused more on rel One of them's focused more on developer type activities But each one of those practices has some architect and that architect is usually the one Who who's getting information from the different business units and trying to figure out what would the customer truly want? But lately there's actually been a lot of a good feedback loop from the developers as well where Instead of getting a course where it's very structured at the beginning We're trying to be more agile than that and and actually have the developers as we do research And we have topics in mind. This is what we'd like to cover Let's see if that makes sense. So let's see if that takes us down a different different direction And in fact, so you know one of the courses I was just working on And Chris is still working on relates to OpenShift container storage, which has a new name OpenShift data foundation now, right? So those names change, but that's not hard on your videos at all. I'm sure yeah, yeah, but And then remember it so but but it but it tries to figure out. Well, what what seems to be important here and sometimes There's things that are easy to do But that might not be that might not be the goal for it. So I mean just as it's kind of an example with that the image registry, right? So if you're dealing with OpenShift, there's an internal image registry and In our classroom environment at least in some of the classes we have we just default to using NFS storage, right? It's a piece of cake to set up. It's not really recommended for storage, right? But but for classroom environments, it's it's it's fine However, if we have a class that's dealing with storage, right? You'd really want to set up storage where Properly right and and again you could you could create I mean you you might use block storage with just a different persistent volume and That's easy, but if you're using maybe an object bucket claim That's a little bit more tricky And so, you know, I had done the initial research of my clue and we can get this done with you know Just kind of switch into a different persistent volume Yeah, no, that's not what the architect wanted which I get it was tough. It was tough trying to Figure out what it would I need to do? But in the end that's what's gonna be That's that's what the the student hopefully is gonna want to see You know, yeah, it's tricky a little bit, but we've got some good, you know instructions on how you can get this Configure And so that's right right now a lot of the the courses they're taking a little bit more of the agile approach where we've got the ideas And here's the things we'd like to cover And then we start doing our research, you know, I'll try to figure out it can we make this work? And there's times where we'd like to maybe do one thing, but in the environment might be prohibitive of that You know speaking of the learning subscription You know in the past OpenShift 3 that was pretty easy to set up if you if you wanted just to Create a sandbox environment on your own laptop. You can spin up a couple of virtual machines It didn't require that many resources OpenShift 4 that's a little bit different, right? That's a lot harder to create just on your laptop And so, you know, some of these environments we've got I don't know maybe three master servers three infrastructure servers three Additional worker nodes, so they're fairly big clusters That would be kind of difficult to you know kind of play around and sit up with on your own. Yeah Yeah, I mean like Like whenever you're doing something that is like kind of sufficiently difficult, you know in these kinds of environments They're very hard to replicate right because it's like, you know If I want to go learn about the storage stuff, right? The last thing I want to do is configure all the stuff before I even get to the storage, right? Because that's gonna take me, you know, three days of just set up time, you know of all the rest of it, right? You know, I'm just kind of pulling a you know a technology out of the hat there But like, you know just the last thing I want to do is like before I can actually investigate it I'm actually I've been working on a problem like that right now where, you know Basically, I have a page actually pages of notes about just getting the setup to get to the point Where I can actually do this stuff. I'm trying to figure out You know and conveniently enough there's nothing like training for that, you know, so One of the things I was gonna comment on though is that like and maybe Chris I don't know if you want to comment on this here, but like I would still imagine that there's a lot of Like I don't want to say latitude But it's kind of the same problem you have like as a not problem, but like Flexibility you have it's like a software developer where As a software developer, I get from like my technical lead or an architect or whatever I get like here build this thing, right? But then I have to use kind of my own Expertise to know kind of what to in the training sense What I would say is like what to gloss over and what to really like delve into Like but in software development, I mean more like where to focus my like profiling effort, you know So, you know, is that a similar experience like that's kind of what I was getting at is like, how do you make those decisions? It is a similar experience. We we are afforded time and access to a breadth of resources So Michael mentions the architect who sets a high-level bar of the kinds of topics we want to address Gaining that wisdom from reaching out through business units customer experiences feedback from other courses that may be related Then we're giving a large a large amount of time, not a large amount of time, but a breadth of access to gain Intelligence around that we're oftentimes writing course content on things that aren't known What are the best practices or we're establishing best practices by simply putting them in a training course So we have to go out there and try these things in our own environments massage those classroom lab environments to meet those needs and then we start a feedback cycle both with our Architects and Michael also mentioned the early access program where folks who've joined the red hat learning subscription with that access level Can see that content before it's published as a full course and say this is looking great This exercise really hit the goals of what I was looking to gain in this particular skill and open ship Or this is wildly missing the mark. I really wanted to see more of this So we have an opportunity to listen to that feedback and then tune our content along those lines Additionally from the internal side our architect and team members are listening to business trends Maybe some news that broke we've heard of you know products changing names and whatnot We have to be abreast of that or what what features may be coming up on the radar since our course projects writing a single course Can take several months you can imagine that some of our faster-moving technologies like open shift and others could have a change in that Period of time from when we conceive a course to when we deliver a course And we have to stay on that cutting edge to make sure when we put something in your hands It isn't stale the day you get it So that's the real benefit of that feedback cycle and internal connectivity that we have to be able to keep our courses fresh and The most relevant to our customer needs Well, like this is like I think that must be I mean you find this hard kind of cross the board right and kind of one of the reasons I like doing the kind of streaming shows is that You know the hard part about video is it's you know, it's not uneditable, but it's uneditable, right? It's like, you know, if you do get a product name change, right? You can't just go through and you know change the terms right in the video Me dubbing over other people is not gonna happen. So right, right, although that might be very very amusing That could be funny. Yeah. Yeah but so I imagine like kind of keeping up with those videos, but it kind of leads me to another question, which is Like how how much kind of feedback do you get from people and Part of the challenge that you must be trying to meet or related to that is like Different learning styles, right? So like, you know, some people like, you know, like me for example I actually much prefer text to, you know, most other communication forms You know, whereas I know other people much prefer video than other communication forms And then there's even other people who prefer audio And so how much do you like, how do you deal with that essentially? I'd love to say it was something that Michael and I have all those skills sitting on our heads But yeah, it'd be foolhardy not to mention that the entire wraparound team of services that we have For moral class tech editors to a team of Titans and video editing So in the GLS organization, we have the skills and Professionals really targeting to make sure we have that on point So I don't necessarily have to worry about my grammar I should be good and there's skills that that that these members of our team gift is they run workshops to help us Right clean and better pros. However, we always get to pass it through their eyes as a final checkoff Right with the video editors, I'll sit here and say it Michael mentioned we're recording a course this week There's no doubt that during that process will get stopped rollback Let's say that again a little bit different and they keep in mind how agnostic we can maybe be to To the content itself so that that may be a drag-and-dropable module to Populate in other areas or other courses so that it they have a real skill for coaching us to Record these things in the ways that make them a little bit more portable or easier to maintain for That a freshness that we need with versioning and whatnot of courses and technologies For me, you know, I get I think With the learning subscription, right? So that that gives you the choice of which which learning style works best for you So if you like to read Well, yeah, there's the the courses all there. So it's an HTML And you can read through it and you can go through the exercises If you're more visual in terms of seeing someone maybe maybe even auditorial You can watch the video of an instructor presenting They just Just just recently they released what they called a premium version, which has all of that But then also allows There's three-hour segments with live instructors or an instructor is presenting live and you can actually ask questions And get feedback and that respect so So I think it's trying I think the the learning subscription is trying to address those different Learning styles and and you can choose which which which route works best for you I know for things that I'm fairly confident with I just I'd rather read because I can skim through it But sometimes sometimes I will watch a video as well I want to see sometimes the tips that an instructor has I mean I know I've recorded a couple of classes and Something that I found as an instructor that was always beneficial was What were some of the tips? You know that that maybe I found or that students would constantly run into little problems Chris short, you know, you had mentioned When we were chatting about troubleshooting, right? So sometimes during those videos I would actually be going through an exercise and sure enough things things are gonna are gonna go wrong and so Those videos also gives you the ability to sometimes see how is that instructor? Troubleshooting this particular issue. Maybe it's a simple thing. Maybe it's a little bit more complex So again each one of those modalities can offer a little bit different style and and last thing that to kind of Say on that is Chris mentioned. There is a group of people besides the developers and one of those key people It's an instructional designer, right? So that is structural designers trying to look at the whole picture And it does this make sense from an instructional standpoint Regardless of what the architect wants to put into it. You know, it doesn't make sense from an instructional standpoint Interesting. I think part of part of what's really interesting for me for this It's like it's it's always fascinating. Like I can't believe how many different like role types there are I mean, you know, it's like as soon as you say one I'm like, oh, of course that makes sense, right? But then but kind of looking at it from the abstract I'm like, oh, there's just, you know, you know, this this person who puts the whole class together You know and also kind of I've been doing a lot of you know kind of work with Boston University. So like, you know, there's a lot of students You know, we'll talk about classes or we'll talk about like learning new things or whatever and You know, and I think in the vast majority case, I think a lot of those professors, you know, kind of do the whole kit But it seems like but I know they have support infrastructure as well. And it's just kind of interesting how to think about like Are there, you know, there really are different skill sets in there and much like, you know, talking about programming again, right? It's like much like programming having one person who's able to do all of them is pretty rare. And you know, and sometimes You know, it also means that or generally means that they are also of like medium quality at all of them right excellent at none. You know, so it's kind of interesting to see the specialization, you know, kind of within that world. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what okay, so so the show focuses primarily and we've talked about this before I know but I'm going to kind of reiterate it but to the focus is primarily on In a sense why containers are cool. And so in other words, like I, you know, imagine if I was a, you know, kind of a rel admin and I think that, you know, and I keep hearing about this container thing, but don't really care because I need to do that. I need to run my my servers and I argue that you should care. Anyway, and the reason is, is because of things like application containers, you know, making, you know, making a container available throughout your data center that has like all the tools you prefer, you know, those kinds of things. What would you recommend for somebody in that scenario to for a class or training says or whatever to be able to adopt containers in their like day to day work. Sure, I, I think it's important you mentioned what if I'm a system administrator but I'll take it a step back further which is what if you're just that system administrators manager. We have veins of curriculum that gets you all the way through the I've heard of containers but have no concept to take you through a conversation about what is a company's transition to this adoption look like a managerial perspective or a business perspective on that is where our curriculum introduces these topics, and then continues onward the enumeration of our courses do 18283 much like college course where indicates that progression of knowledge and skills that are logically followed or at least from our opinion would follow one to the next to progress you through the skills. But the on ramps of vocabulary and just mindset have to be in place before you really start running commands on the command line. Once you once you feel comfortable with the with the concepts we move into course where that puts you right into lab environments, so that you can get your hands on the keyboard in an environment already built for you like Michael mentioned about our custom classrooms per course to meet the needs, you can then follow along and either the whatever modality the written word and instructor, you know, teaching this through a video format or even sign up and attend a virtual class. If that's your learning style, where you have the interactions in these classrooms to deploy a cluster if you're at that stage or even just deploy your first container in a in an open shift cluster. If it's something you're really novice to or new to we'd like to explain these from the bottom up with no assumed knowledge. You know an open shift course is going to require you to know some rails some Linux back in skills, but we're going to try to make that bar of entry as low as possible so you can really just focus on this new skill you're trying to pick up. And if you understand that containers and container adoption and infrastructure administration on open shift is the way you want to take your career. I think there's a great journey you'll follow course to course to get those skills in a bite sized fashion and with our with the RHS revisit the parts that didn't make sense or even consume them in multiple modalities. You learn best through text but on this topic it's challenging, you know you pivot and you also watch the video or you know maybe rewind and do it again until that until that skill is stuck before progressing through the course or even into the next course. And that's typically how I learn right like that text and then oh man this doesn't make sense to me let me go watch the video right like I pull the video out as like I need somebody to actually give me the example so it's great that there's multiple modalities like that. It really is. We try to eliminate the need for you to consume our knowledge and then wait I still need a backup YouTube video or I've got to go find somebody's blog before this ultimately makes sense so we try to include all of those different ways you could consume it into the one portal. And what about kind of so you know obviously the you know the any individual class can only cover so much right. Like what's the what's your kind of recommendation for like if you want to kind of widen that knowledge so like you know okay so I think I got a good idea of like how to execute a basic container. So I can go forward right I can go kind of those higher number courses, but if I want to go slightly kind of wider. I mean I guess what I was kind of wondering, because I think, you know I think there's like kind of, you know, like a community around this, where I can go and maybe say, you know, hey, you know I thought of this thing which doesn't really seem to be covered, because I think it's bizarro land, not because it's like, you know, an expansion, but like, there's a community there to where I can kind of go and talk to people about it. There is. I'm trying to remember the URL. I don't know if I can remember if it's, yeah it's learn.redhat.com. Okay, learn.redhat is referred to as the red hat learning community and that's where it in pretty much any courses you get into now. It's going to provide that that URL for students as kind of a place where they can network with other students ask questions. Instructors are typically paying attention to that. Some developers are, right, so sometimes it will filter into developers. Having been a former instructor, I still get a lot of those emails. So as things get posted there, emails get generated. And so I'll see those and sometimes respond to those directly. I wanted to jump back though. You'd said, why containers maybe? And I'd say that's the direction things are going in a lot of ways. I think back with when rail seven came out. So we had for a long time, and it still continues to be a big bunch of training is rail curriculum, right? And there used to be a track system administration one, two, and three. And when rail seven came out, there was maybe at the very end of the system administration three, maybe like a paragraph or two about containers. Hey, it's like, hey, these things are, these things are kind of new. And we think it's probably going to take off, but we don't really know. I mean, there's no hands on activities for it, but it's kind of just almost a passing reference. And then it got, you know, got pulled out, but that portion eventually disappeared. But that was at a point where rail training was maybe 90, 95% of what the training was. Open shift training is now maybe a third of the training. You know, I mean, it went through some revisions, right? So we had a atomic host at one point a class on atomic host for containers. And at one point there was maybe just one open shift class that kind of dealt with installing and it was more administrative focus. But now, I mean, Chris, I don't know how many classes we have now, but I said it's probably at least 10. If not more open shift classes, and it's taken about a third of the training. And, you know, I guess another kind of along those, those same lines. So as an instructor, there was always a yearly instructor conference. And most of the instructors, their bread and butter was teaching rail courses, right? I mean, that was the bulk of the courses. And every year I was like, come on, you guys, let's, you know, learn containers, learn Ansible, learn, you know, learn these other things. And I thought that these other courses are going to start picking up. And it was, it was pulling teeth, right? Sometimes it's tough to, it's tough to venture off into something new when you're comfortable doing what you're doing. I don't know that I'd want to be one of those instructors that only knows rail right now, especially if you're a contractor. That, that pool is going to get tight, you know, there's the number of classes has switched over to you. Did up like your, I think your headsets dying or something. Yeah, we just lost sound for you. We lost your audio. I was like, I can finish this. There we go. That was actually let's let's do that. I think you need to take over right there while Michael. This headset needs more coffee. I'm losing my track losing history and I thought I guess I should say, I think the point, the point is, you know, the industry as well as curriculum and containers. And there's no shortage of demand for the course where people are growing these skills moving from that traditional system administrator entities newer roles and newer spaces. And what's nice is our curriculum stays both on the cutting edge and we maintain that catalog of courses as the courses expand it's daunting for us to version bump up every course in the catalog but we take on that task. So that's one of those challenges on staying on that bleeding edges. If you're going to expand your courseware, which is what your customer wants, you also need to maintain all those courses out in the wild. Right. And do it so we've also gotten the iterative opportunity to inject that knowledge in other waters in the real courses you now see an adoption of some ansible practices and use cases, as well as mentioned that containerization and using open shift or seeing those tools that bleed you into that next year of life. Maybe you're hyper focused on learning some automation skills with ansible. Well, if you went through a rail course and saw that course journey all the way through to completion. It gives you a good clue and a good footing to then branch out into ansible or branch out into a learning journey in open shift. So we do a pretty seasoned job thanks to the experiences of a team that's been around about 20 years. So understanding what the business has to offer and how to incorporate that in the learning journey for someone who is maybe today learning Linux for the first time but wants to see that career progression beyond. Well now I'm a certified engineer what's next keeps going just like the course journey does into these newer technologies. But even even the rail like training and certification stuff right like that's all got containers in it now right. So with the red hat architect level certified okay where you get to go cherry pick some technologies to expand beyond the engineer to really hyper focus on what's what's more important in your walk of life. You can learn an array of certain or you can gain an array of certifications out of our course where to form an architect certification and that can include specializations and things of any nature of our products but we have injected and even the system administrator courses and rail. I think number two thinks this admin two's got that content not container content now so that's you know never used to be there but we found that this is this is a core thing that administrator administrator should start knowing so it's it's gotten pushed into I think it's this admin to has got that content now. And like what kind of one of the things like, you know, like, like training and certifications right it tend to be on the, you know, follower side of a technology right like, like, there's no certifications out there for, you know, quantum computing, right or maybe there is but I wouldn't bother with them. I think IBM has something to be honest. Yeah, so there probably is but I mean like who's going to ask me for quantum computing certification right. You know, whereas, like, but I think like, you're like having a certification out there having training out there really is a ratification that this thing is probably here to stay right. It's not, you know, this is not a fly by night. You know, or tempt at a technology that looks cool. You know, like, you know, we've had many of fits and starts red hat included, even myself included in things that we've tried to pull off and it just kind of haven't materialized. But you don't put the effort into creating training exercises creating, you know, training content, etc. certifications generally speaking unless there's something there that's quote unquote, like real. You know, like, honestly, quantum computing is actually probably a bad example just because it's actually been around as a concept for 20 years or so. And so it's a little bit weird. You know, I was trying to think of some other like what's new hotness that's probably not going to stick, you know, but those are always hard to predict, hence the point right. So, you know, so I think, you know, at least your team right really feels like this container steps probably going to be a thing. And, you know, and the technologies around for at least 20 years, you know, it was just, we never really had a good, basically, you know, it never had a good entry point for most people. You know, the, the widest usage was probably using RPM build, you know, which is kind of amusing. But okay, so I always like to kind of also say like, alright, so, you know, let's ask, let's ask Chris first like what do you think, you know, our audience kind of, you know, so mix of, you know, sys admins developers looking at containers, looking at orchestration. What's the biggest thing about containers and orchestration or whatever you think that people should know, or like people should go and you know what's what's your, you know, big tagline about why containers or why, you know, what is the tricky parts or something along those lines. Well, I think what I would say to that is tying back to this thought you just had before about how you know containers have been around for a while but we've really had a moment in time where scale is affordable to really appreciate what a container can do for you. I think we see it in enterprises because we're redhead and we consult with large entities, but the startups I know of are out of the gate going with a containerized approach, hoping they become the next billion dollar juggernaut, but they'll be prepared to scale easily. Being able to take a business idea, deploy it in any environment and scale it affordably is a skill any administrator any technologist could appreciate even a business mind someone leading a business should be familiar with this concept, so that they understand the best value they can get for the dollar out in return on the investment when you're writing an application and giving it out to the world. I think doing it in this will call it a new way. If the technologies existed for a while that's one thing but the new way being the adoption of that technology right. I think that's going to be the key to success for so many people trying to get the next 20 years out of their career. I think somebody who's been a paper tiger and certifications of Microsoft for a while. Now's the perfect time with all the clouds out there to pivot and learn how to run containers and whatever flavor of cloud they want. And I think they extend their life of their career for another 20 years. Because of the future road that I see containers right now we talk about the journey of adoption but the journey of conversion will be a much bigger deal when companies say okay this VM bare metal deployment we have is just untenable in a modern time whatever they make that decision. So let's get on board with this and at that point in time it'll be to how do we take an app re architect and then deploy and scale in this new way. And that's the skills that exist in our courses for years now. And we're seeing a huge surge towards with the kind of content we're creating and being asked to create from the community at So, you know, one of the things I wanted to kind of just jump on there for a second. So a lot of things are a lot of time I think any people who work at enterprises are in the enterprise right or even like medium business right whenever they hear the word start up they get nervous. But the thing to recognize is that the techniques that a startup is using are applicable inside your medium sized business all the time right and so my stupid example is just like one of the organizations I consulted to would crank out a new movie website every three months or so. And they did them on, I think they were Drupal. And, you know, and basically they just had to crank it out it was a very, you know, low edit, you know, low change functions right it just basically put up the, you know, the trailer of the movie you know and you know whatever the crap was on there. But that's a perfect opportunity for something like containers but it's like that little like if you had built that as if each one of those was a little startup in a sense. That would be a perfect opportunity for you know all of these very cutting edge techniques by dropping the effort for any individual movie, you know website to to the level that it deserves right which is kind of a near zero right. And so I think that's so don't I guess what I would caution is like take everything what you said which I completely agree with, but it doesn't have to just apply to like some early stage company, you use a lot of those same techniques. You know you can you see them all the time, you just kind of have to recognize them for what they are. But I think that's overall I thought it was a great point. Yeah, I think I think the start up gets to stand on the shoulders of giants and technologies discovered from the juggernauts who were asking for more or better or faster or cheaper. They get to adopt it right up the gate because they're new kids but the enterprise is going to go through that journey it's just a bit more timely and has to be a bit more planned because they're an evolution stage as opposed to an inception stage. All right, so same question you Michael so you know what do you think is like the big thing that you would like people to take away about you know why you know containerization and or kind of like what you know training and certification is important about that for you know kind of the audience that we have. I think part of the takeaway for me is thinking about updates in security. I mean how many times have you talked to someone who's like now we don't update our servers because we don't know what's going to break right it's working now. Yes, there might be security updates. I'm not going to apply them. Yeah, I mean updates with containers oftentimes, especially if you're getting a container coming from red hat right or maybe you're using the universal base image, these are getting updated for known issues. If I'm a web developer I don't necessarily care right. I don't care about how that's going to set up. I want my container to be secure or if if I'm legacy architecture I want my system to be secure, but I don't want to have to worry about that. You know if you go to the container regs red hats container registry. You know one of the things that you'll see is that each container gets ranked right it's going to have a letter grade and you're going to see clear visibility are there known issues and what's surprising to me is that it doesn't usually take very long for an image which was an a rank to get down to a C or a D you know sometimes it's only a handful of months. That's surprising to me, but you know when it was really hard to get. We heard that work. Let me know what kind of headset you using so I don't buy that. I never had problems. And this twice right for crying out loud. Usually is the gold cast. Right. Right. It's got to go with my wire. Stuff always breaks when you're alive. Yeah. But I hear you. But yeah, you know maybe you're part of it right or maybe just give us the last sentence you know. But I think the rating or the rankings of containers and seeing how frequently those change. If you're if you're in charge of updating your systems are you updating it with that cadence. If you're not there are security issues right whether you're dealing with a physical system or a container that you know that that could be problematic for you and again as a developer. I don't necessarily care about that. I want it to be secure and I don't have to worry about getting those images passed. So I might build a new container where it's going to pull the latest image where those base container image where those those issues have been resolved at least for now. Right. You know those couple months later that that that image will have maybe some other issues that will be discovered. Conveniently enough. Thank you for the segue on the 9th of June. So it's like three or four weeks from now. We're actually having the team from the health index on the show to talk about like how it actually works underneath. But yeah that's that's one of the things I think is really one of those kind of you know bites you later problems with containers is you know yes it's immutable. Oh my God it's immutable right is the challenge is that you have to you do have to maintain that health. And I think that's you know when you go and just read the blog post on the Internet of how awesome containers are they kind of gloss over that whole like maintenance component of your application in a container. Because there's there's so many different variables about that. Also talking a little bit about the afraid to update your servers. You know speaking from personal experience I took over a data center for an organization some friends of mine had started working with the company. And I was afraid to install pop it at the time. Because it was basically the only one available out there. Because of like what it might do to the server so I would do updates. You know but you know like. And so I ended up writing an engine x plugin that would actually do updates as if they were engine x checks. Not engine x Nagios. And you know so it was horrifying. But like that's that's like the perfect scenario like like just containers make all that kind of stuff so much easier. Because you can have a golden record right you can have a golden image that you regularly update and then you can roll out you know and you start looking at this is really where the orchestration stuff starts coming into right as you can roll it out in a canary way and like actually test it and stuff. And so you can have this kind of like relatively managed environment that's way less keeping you up at night, I think, because it's just doing its thing, rather than, you know, being constantly, like, I think most content, you know, except from like operating system people or whatever it's like, it's very point in time. You know it's like you never have to worry about it ever being changed again, you know it just all magically happen somehow. Or, you know, because it's coming from developers who are like yeah I'll just delete it and write a new one. You know, like me. All right, cool. What's nice in the OpenShift space is the deliberate intention to develop those features the automatic updating and security awareness alerting and monitoring on that is really deliberately built in and it is included in the training as well how to leverage some of these features but the motion of OpenShift development is to make those tests either obvious or automatable in the future. That's what's great is the hard and daunting parts are becoming easier in a container world. Yeah, yeah. And I really think like, you know, even when you're like there's, you know, there's different scale levels right and we can do a lot of stuff with Podman. We can do a lot of stuff with Ansible plus Podman. And we can do a lot of stuff with OpenShift and different scales require kind of different levels of, you know, input on that particular application. You know, or a particular goal, like, you know, you, I think this is the other one of those things that people don't talk about enough is like there's a big huge difference between six or seven nines of uptime and two nines of uptime. Do you really need the six or seven nines of uptime? Or would you be actually like my movie website example, it's like, you know, is two nines plenty? Probably, you know, like what happens if the trailer, you know, I mean, if the trailer site goes down once, you know, every so often. I mean, so what, you know, people just reloaded or you're going to miss two people. So, you know, but obviously it's just my opinion you have to evaluate your own scenario to think about that and it's just make sure you're actually evaluating it realistically versus just kind of a random. All right, so do we have any questions, Mr. Short? No, but the chat has been lively about various things. Playing risky mentioned something that he's doing the where he's basically just as new ratings come in for those containers and their environment or a previous environment he worked in. He would have it auto set up the trigger rebuild of that container once, you know, everything was patched and everything. So we're kind of going through like, how did that work out in the conversation right now? But like that sounds like an amazing strategy. We do also have a super just to comment on that though you got to be super careful about that because part of the upside of a container is that it's not changing. So you want to make sure that that, you know, the thing that you're deploying is actually something that you've tested again. Yes, this is where things like service. Yeah, yeah. Your pipeline has to be configured. Your deployment strategy has to be robust, right? Like there's a lot of things going on in that process prior to just adopting and throwing everything and like right. Just straight up updates. Yeah, no, that's that's going to lead to some interesting problems for you. We have another question from Chitendra, but I'm going to answer that offline. So yeah, Chitendra, I'm going to come back to you on that. Cool. All right, so why don't we jump to the sweet sweet internet points, and then we will come back and get and see if there's any questions in the meantime. And, you know, if there are not any questions, then we can kind of do some a little bit of a closing and call it a day. All right, so going to share my screen again. You know, eventually once I find the correct button, you know, the button hasn't moved in a year. Yeah, but I moved the window around. That way I can kind of look at you all instead of off to the side, which is what when I put the when I put the video in the wrong place on the screen, it makes it look great. Yeah. So sweet sweet internet points. So we've had explain them explain to our guests what these are. Yes. So the sweet sweet internet points is a way for people to gather points for coming to the show. That's that's the primary mechanism people generate points for another way is to make suggestions for content for the show and so you get some points for that as well. And the way you do that is going and filing an issue on the GitHub repo. And let's see. Another way is actually to make an edit like a pull request against the show notes about the show. So if you want to contribute anything like further reading or if you notice a bug like the one I had from last week which I put in the wrong date for when the show aired, you know, stuff like that. So that's another way to earn points. There's a few others on the activities page, which I let's see do I have the link on the actual repo, which is sorry, loading. I will throw that in the chat. So that's another that basically has a list of kind of different ways you can get points and then there's escalators so once you've watched a few shows you get some more points as well. Excuse me. And so, yeah, so then we just kind of present the leaderboard and we sometimes do some shout outs to people who have participated in the show. Or sorry, or who are new to the show. So we have a little bit of that today. So yeah, so it's just a fun little thing we do to, you know, kind of help engage with our audience, you know. And so I highly recommend it. I would really like to see, you know, all my, I would like to get my training points. So let me know when I can get sweet sweet internet points on the training website. That would be kind of cool. So, you know, certifications, those are like, those are kind of like next level internet points. Like, like that's an official internet official internet points or something. Yeah. So, Narenda with 50 400 points, Netherlands hack them with 5100 points. I did notice. So one of the things I would like to point out I fixed a few people. Please be very careful with your email address because if you type it in incorrectly, it will find you as two different people, which in my opinion is not a bug. This is something that periodically I go back and check to make sure that it's correct. So I found that a little bit today. So if you see some a little bit of weirdness and the points that's why. So no friction with 3900 points. Joe fuzz with 2300 detective Conan kudo 2000 points and bacon fork with 1700. I would also like to give a shout out to Sloan. Who I don't know if they're here today, but they submitted for like four or five of the early episode shows in the last couple weeks. So they've been going back and rewatching shows. So just keep in mind, if you don't have all the points you can get but you want to get more, you can also go back and rewatch old shows and basically take the code that's here. And it will be, it's still valid. You can just kind of reuse it whenever you're ready. So that is the internet points. I was just looking to see, I don't think I have this conveniently off to the side. Let me grab the link so that you can submit. I usually I put it off to the side. I just forgot. So yes, Rapscallion. Stay up. Stay up. They remain valid if they if they are not valid for some reason or another. Let me know on discord. It's a bug. But they are there. And yes, we would all like to buy sweet, sweet internet point shirts. And we are promised very, very soon now. Are we going to make a request for a sweet, sweet internet point shirt after the show now? Now that's, yeah, I don't think we actually have an actual internet points shirt. Like we should get like the level up hour on the back and just like sweet, sweet internet points and quotes on the front. Yeah. And does it come with a kid of like iron on numbers so you can put your real score on there? Yeah, I think that would be, I think that would be pretty awesome. And yes, but we very much want to as well. What we really want to do actually is we want to send you free stuff based on your internet points. That is the biggest gate, you know, not to mention some vendor changes and things like that from our swag providers. There's a lot going on at red. It's like I don't understand how we like we went out of our way to make this so hard. But, you know, I just I just work here. So, yeah, thanks so much for participating. Go grab today's points. You know, if you go to the YouTube playlist, do you have a fancy, you have a fancy bang for that, right? For just the archive? No, yeah, the archive of the show, the playlist. Oh, the show. No, I need. Oh, you don't. Yeah, like I have an archive for the channel, but I will make one for the show after this. Bobby, take a note. Yes. Let me grab the playlist real quick for everybody. Oh, okay. I was looking forward to, but so yeah, if you go back and watch old episodes, you can, you know, you can catch up to everybody else who's there. Yes. And I think Narendra is primarily in the lead because of show ideas suggestions and Netherlands hack them is kind of done his differentiation actually around doing a poll request a while back with some code changes. So, yeah, so participate and there's more points. Grabbing the playlist. Thank you. Thank you. I got to find it. There's a lot of playlists now. I know. It's like. There it is. Copy. Paste. Yay. Yay. All right. Did we have any questions in the meantime? Oh, gosh. Aside from swag and shirts. Jatendra, if you didn't see the link I added you in, let me know, and I will follow up with you. As always, you can reach me short at redhead.com. If you have any questions. Just ping me the email or on Twitter at Chris short. Looking through doesn't look like it's like some people have signed up for learn redhead.com already, which is awesome. Thank you so much. I'll hack them found the playlist. Good job. Yeah, no, it doesn't look like there's any points, but thank you to everybody for participating in the conversation today. We already have over 100 chat messages, which is an astounding achievement for one show. So that's awesome. Thank you everybody. And very few flames. So let's kind of turn it to Michael. Hopefully your sound will work. You know, do you have any clothing socks? No, this was fun. This was fun to be a part of. Awesome. Chris. Yeah, I appreciate you mentioned somebody in chat went to learn that redhead.com low barrier of entry free get in the conversations. You can get a lot of wealth of knowledge there and then see what course is right for you to step into an actual courseware for your learning journey. I think that's the best way to go figure out where you need to be to calibrate your own conversation. We're all in unique spots in our careers. It's been a pleasure chatting with you folks too. So thanks for having us. Yeah, no, we really appreciate it. And you know, do keep in mind for everybody in the audience, right? If you are watching this live, and you think of something later, you can always come back to the show. If you're watching this in, you know, in some future history time, you know, you can always come on the show, you know, we do the show every week. And feel free to ask us questions. And, you know, if we get enough of them, we'll ask, you know, these guys back, or we'll ask some of their colleagues back so we can get some different faces to come on the show. And, you know, so, you know, we can always we can always cover it again. If there's something else that comes up that you didn't think of right now. You know, it occurs to you at two in the morning tonight, or occurs to you after you play around with learn.openshift.com or the learning subscription. But definitely check it out. You know, like, you know, people learn different ways if you're having trouble getting your head wrapped around this container stuff, try something like training, you know, other people, you know, just it's not just the gurus, right, don't just, you know, learn by, you know, reading something and putting all the pieces together all the time, right, you know, sometimes, you know, having an instructor kind of explain it as a good idea. So, you know, just kind of recognize your own kind of learning modalities and, you know, an experiment, if you're not sure why you can't get your head wrapped around something. Sometimes it's the way the content's being delivered as much as it is you trying to understand it. So that that's my kind of closing pitch for, you know, experiment with how you learn things you don't you don't always find the right answer for the right subject the first time out. So, Chris, you want to tell us a little bit about Mr. Short, sorry, about what else is going on in the channel or. Yeah, absolutely. So check this out. There's going to be an episode called splat and the vSphere problem detector. Okay, wait to bring that on because I literally had to ask Andrew, what is splat and that's all going to be explained is explained on the calendar. So if you're not a subscriber of the calendar, let me drop you a link to it so you can go in there and look. Yeah, and don't forget, actually, yeah, we will say, you know, definitely, you know, a joking aside, like and subscribe to the channel, the show wherever you're listening to it because that's how we we get, you know, the the ability to continue to run the show. Right. We can show how many people like it. And then at noon today we've got a special OpenShift Commons briefing with cyber arc so getting, you know, I am working with cyber arc that's going to be fun. And then we have a special red hat enterprise Linux presents we're actually going to be talking about like the file system and the structure of Linux and like that standard and then where to find things and all that fun stuff so yeah it's going to be a busy day here on the channel. That is that is a life changing piece of data if right now about it. Yeah, so the LSF is amazing. Linux system standard is awesome. Yeah. And if you know it exists, it makes your brain hurt a whole lot less about why things are arranged the way they are. Yeah, highly recommended on this show next time. We're going to take another swing at Docker composed podman, which I actually thought was going to be this episode because I got them totally reversed and had a massive panic attack last night at like nine o'clock I was like oh my god we're doing the wrong show. So, I'm very excited for it because I was all teed up to do it today. So it will be next next Wednesday, you know same bat time same bat channel. And thanks so much for coming. Yeah, we really appreciate everybody joining us today. Thank you very much to Michael and Chris. Yeah. And thank you everyone in chat that has been watching and interacting today we really appreciate y'all. So stay safe out there, and we'll see you next time.