 I like it. No, no. Down. Mm-hmm. So you carried on watching more of Buffy yet in a draw. I have. I have. How far are you? About halfway through season five, I had to stop for a little while so Mrs. Droddek could catch up. You guys getting very close to that episode. You know the one. Yes. Mrs. Droddek could catch up. Yes. Mrs. Droddek is that episode. You know the one. Yeah, I'm not allowed to watch Buffy without her from now on. It's kind of a thing. So got to do what the boss says once in a while. Haven't gotten the title right. I knew I was going to forget something. Give me one moment. Don't panic chat. You're all going to panic. Oh, 58. The... Hmm. Let's come up with a good title. What do you reckon, everybody? Should we call it? Was season eight of Game of Thrones bad? Question mark? Or good? Yeah. Come on. Your old woodsmiths do it. The battle for season eight. No, that's lame. What about the Game of Thrones debate? Yeah. The season eight debate. Hmm. I mean, if you... Game of Thrones. A trial by combat. There we go. I'll take that. I'll take any of these. I'm putting it in. And as long as people love it, we'll keep it. Trial by combat. But with... What name would you like in the title? Yeah, then IRL is fine. Very well. New Dorotic. There we go. I'll update. And hopefully, you know, it won't say if I'm gaming anymore. Sorry about that, everybody. You know how I just... Oh, well. Can't do anything right for this. It's all a game. It's all a game that we play. All changes saved. Excellent. The... Yes. We should probably talk about a few things before we do any kind of intro. Let people sort of... Blow in a little bit. How about that? That thing that came out recently. Has anything come out recently? Batwoman was bad. The Hiko. Actually, I was gonna say... I couldn't imagine watching Batwoman. No? Are you sexist? Maybe. But I just... I couldn't... I couldn't imagine. Like, I watched a few episodes... I watched a season of The Flash years back. For funsies. And that was all I could really do of, like, CW. Superhero stuff. What is the best show on CW? Is it Arrow? Is that the one that's... The Hundred. The Hundred is amazing. It's just like... Oh, wait, wait. I mean, out of the Arrowverse ones, all of the hero ones. The first one? Yeah. And I know that The Flash and Arrow are probably the two most likely of it. Yeah. The first two seasons of both of those were pretty good. Season one of Arrow is very good. CW show. Yeah, fair enough. I was gonna say a quick update about EFAP movies again. Because I know that people are still like, What is the Doom video? This is simultaneously a promotion of a thing and information at the same time. So, those who want to see the EFAP movies, Doom, you can actually watch it on efap.me, the website held by Keeberkins. Oh. If you go to... I'm gonna do it right now. If you go to it, then go to Episodes, Minis, Movies, and Gaming. Then you hit Doom and it links you to a player that's embedded into the site, I guess. Now you can watch it there. So for the people who are like, Well, I don't see it. There you go. But it will be up on Mueller as soon as it goes through. I'm trying a thing with a friend to see if we can keep it live on a channel on YouTube for two weeks. Once it goes through two weeks, then we probably assume it's not gonna get hit by copyright and I'll try it again on Mueller, but that'll be the third time. For some reason, they like to strike it once you put it live. It doesn't matter whether or not it's unlisted. It's really annoying. As soon as that one goes through, then Fellowship can come out, then Two Towers, then Return of the King, then God Gojira, King of the Monsters. King of the Monsters. And another one, should I keep it a secret rags or should we tell them? I think you've already told them enough. The secret is to always want them leaving more. There's another movie on top of the Godzilla one that's currently being edited and it may shock you. I think a lot of people might be shocked. Anyway, go to the website and do that and use it and if you feel as though this is an amazing site, which it is, I'd like to give some support for maintaining it. There is a donate option at the bottom for Keeper Kins. It basically just means that it'll keep going. Obviously, as EFAP itself is supporting the site as well, it's just do whatever you feel that you would like to do in terms of because it's just a great website and that keeping it up is something we want to do. If everything is smooth right now, there should be a link to it in the current live stream. I'm going to make sure that's true. This is really very incompetent today. Yes, it's there. It says a fan site that's all about EFAP. You can find a link right there. Excellent. That's pretty much it. I haven't actually got anything else to say about it. Somebody mentioned when we were talking about YouTube's demonetized words and titles that it was funny that Gallons was in there, demonetized word. Gallons? They recommended that I put Gallons as a test into the next EFAP. I did the one we were talking about Joker. I said we were looking at Gallons of Joker critics or something like that. That video did get demonetized, but I don't know if it's because of Gallons, but it would be funny if it was. Whoa. Does it rhyme with something that I'm missing? I don't know if someone must have used Gallons to say something horrible at some point and YouTube are like, that's it. Gallons of dead Jews. That could have been it. Who knows? You never know with YouTube because they don't tell us anything. They don't. Have they said anything about that demonetized word list? I would have thought they'd be like, did you want to damage control that shit? It'd be like, ah, true, I swear. They do what they always do. Not answer. Another funny thing happened that I suppose I should acknowledge because I got tweeted about it like crazy. Way back when a user made a meme for us where I was the guy in Kingsman shooting a bunch of people in the church scene that were all representative of different EFAP villains and fights and stuff. There were even some references to things beyond EFAP in that video. It was really well edited. It was really cool. Somebody made one for Trump just as a meme in general. Someone made one where he was going around and he was doing the same thing, but he was shooting like CNN and other different things. Obviously, Trump fans are really happy with it. Oh, no, a meme. That's the thing. Non-Trump fans were like, this is horrible. It depicts him killing people and they're celebrating. People were like, isn't this the meme that's made for you as well? It's a meme within the movie. I mean, it's Englishmen killing a bunch of southern church goers. I mean, Kingsman is kind of a meme. I liked the first one. That one was weird and now they're making a prequel, right? Yeah, they are. I only saw the first one. It's not my cup of tea. It's perfectly okay to kill a bunch of church goers in the first one, but... Yeah, they were probably a bunch of right-wingers and it's okay to kill them. Yep, they ain't people. Hey, people. So that's about it for like interest stuff that I need to get said. Now there's enough people here for me to be like, hello and welcome to EFAP number 58. We covered a video about Game of Thrones a while back. I believe it was episode 56? No, it was with Mr. GG. Oh, that was the demonetized weird one, actually. And the author of said video was interested in discussing our perspective on Game of Thrones and here he is. Hello, Yezzan, how do you do? Hi, I am Yezzan, slash like Yezzan IRL and I'm here to talk about some Game of Thrones. Some Season 8. It's going to be great. We've brought Neuroticon as a representative of the side that is, let's say, unhappy. Put it that way, that's the nice way to put it. Unhappy with Season 8 of Game of Thrones and probably Game of Thrones as the whole at this point. So welcome. Aren't you all on that side though? Pretty much, yeah, but I was going to say me and Rags are probably going to try and take a little bit of a backseat so that we're not going to, we don't want to be doing the whole all three of us ask you a question at the same time and you have to answer all of them. We'll try and let you guys discuss the topics if you will, some comments in here and there, just to have some level of structure so that it'll be interesting. I was going to say we kind of did it with Major Lee most of the time, out of the three people two would be silent for a decent amount of time while it would be an exchange between these two others, but we'll play it by here as they say and see how everything goes. Yeah, Neurotic is... Go ahead. I'm curious what everyone's background of the series is just show, book and show, where is that? Neurotic, do you want to go first? Sure. I watched the show for the first three episodes loved it immediately it became the greatest thing in my life and right around that time Dance of Dragons came out bought all the books read them multiple times over one summer and continue doing so over years and years just had the audio book on a constant loop in my car on my phone books got into the lore deeply went to all the reddit pages I'm a big fan or I was a big fan of Free Folk, I heard that change recently and I haven't been there in like a month but yeah I love the Free Folk and yeah just excessively got into the show into the books and was spouting ignorant remarks like this is going to be better than Lord of the Rings and boy was I wrong and got a bunch of people got a bunch of my friends in the show I had a comic shop at the time I don't know if anybody's heard that I might have mentioned it a million times that I used to own a comic shop I had viewing parties there of episodes everything they had to offer I bought I became a massive fan and then Season 7 happened I started breaking a little early Season 7 was what really started doing Season 7 broke you I was still in but the Westeros Express and particularly what they did to Littlefinger was just completely out of character for him and didn't work for me personally narratively within the show he became an idiot got suckered by the Stark sisters in the space of two episodes which normally they would have built that thing up over time and we got a glimpse of what was to come for Season 8 for me and Season 8 was just the straw that broke the camel's back I see my history is all the way with it was Season 2 it just aired and too many of my friends at the same time said you need to see it high rated and I watched I think once I was done with the finale for Season 1 I was like yeah I need 10 million seasons of this and in fact there's only one remaining sucks and I remember watching it all in the one day and I was like well there it is done now and I have to wait a million years I remember watching the premiere for Season 3 the Red Wedding and then that's when I read the books after I finished Season 3 because I was like I can't wait it's impossible I have to know all of the things that happened and then Season 4 rolled around and I was really happy with who they cast for Oberyn and how they did everything I thought it was just like I was just super happy book fan and then came the last episode of Season 4 which I despise and I kind of want to make a video on it one day because everything I just don't like anything that happens in that episode wow that's one of my favorite episodes of the entire show well maybe we can discuss that at some point but I absolutely hate it it ruins Tyrion Lattice to beyond Repair as well as a couple of other things but more importantly I was like I'm done the show's killed me I can't believe it did this and Season 5 came around and a couple of my friends were like we're gonna watch it are you gonna watch it and I was like yeah I'll watch it and I was just like the heckler almost I was like yeah this is some good stuff in here but that's stupid that's the Barristan's death that I was just like so beyond insulted but I was like yeah okay fine that happened that's cool Season 6 roll around and I was like okay it wasn't as bad as Season 5 you know maybe there's maybe and then you know more baits from the white walkers and I was like you know what I'm gonna see this through probably just just because I want to know how this all goes what was it all for Season 7 happened and my god like the stupid zombie plot I couldn't believe that that was what they did White Hunt and then yeah I mean I've kind of skipped over them but we have like Stanis in Season 5 we have Blackfish in Season 6 got Littlefinger in Season 7 is all these endings to characters that are just so unbefitting of what we've come to understand about them or at least what I came to understand about them and then I was getting to a degree of hype for Season 8 because of just who was in it, who was doing what like Sapochnik was supposed to be in charge of a bunch of episodes and I was like oh I like him he's good and the fact that they were like oh this is the biggest thing ever and I was like oh and it's not really to me I thought it was gonna be pretty hard for them to fuck it up I was like you got your options are simplistic, obvious ending or surprise me with some stuff but they chose what I think is one of, let's say there's a billion ways you could have ended it they chose like the bottom 100 worst ways it was in there and I was just like wow and I was furious after Season 8 Episode 3 absolutely furious and it reminded it was the same feeling as TLJ it was like wow I really cared about this show even though I pick the end of Season 4 is where I dropped off I was clearly not off the train sometimes you realize that but yeah that's me and those two stories are relatively long, Rags explain your extensive history with Game of Thrones my extensive history of Game of Thrones begins when Mahler contacted me one day and said Rags I need you to look at this I need someone else to understand I need you to watch this and it was Game of Thrones Season 8 Episode 3 now up until this point my understanding of Game of Thrones was purely tangential in the sense that I'd only heard of it I knew really nothing of the characters I'd seen memes here and there popping up but I basically had no understanding at all of Game of Thrones and I didn't care about the show at all so we watched Season 8 Episode 3 and I said Mahler this is absolutely fucking terrible and then he started explaining me the context of a lot of the characters and we went through a lot of clips and even later I went through a whole lot of clips to get backstories on characters and things that happened and I was like man I'm really really sorry that this happened to your show because this is awful what I'm watching is an absolute abortion of the cinema and then I just kind of followed along with the discussions he was talking about and I'm pretty much convinced based on all that I've learned so far that Season 8 especially Episode 3 going on a lot of just completely logic devoid decisions are made and insanely stupid things happen regardless of who characters are and what their backstories are and a lot of context you just see stupid stuff being done that is just to me insane everything from fight choreography to battle strategies to things that people do that seem so bafflingly stupid I just couldn't I couldn't believe it so I guess it's just to underlie this I find that there's like kind of two main different kinds of complaints about the show and particularly Season 8 some are logistic and then some are narrative so logistic stuff is like fight choreography like why did the Dothraki charge why like and you could say that's motivation on some level but the Dothraki aren't really characters so it's like logistic thing it's like why how was Euron able to snipe Regal out of the sky from behind like dragon stuff like that and then there is stuff like why did Daenerys burn the city why did Jaime go back to stuff like that I am someone who sympathizes more with the logistic complaints like the logistic complaints a lot of them do make a lot of sense to me like yeah they're really really really stupid I don't because I'm not a big battle strategy guy so it's not really it plays out like a CW show quite frankly the things that they do and the things that they do ultimately impact do people survive or not or are the walls breached or what happens to armies and stuff like that it's important stuff that happens sure yeah I'm less knowledgeable about characters I just have the ability to look at things that don't make any sense whatsoever or just outright stupid and don't make sense and I'm like wait a second this doesn't make any sense at all but it's something that's happening so my investment in future actions that people take is being crumbled away by constantly stupid decisions I'm sure we'll get into those for me the areas that I find the bigger complaints are and the bigger like the real vitriol towards season 8 is about character choices things that characters do like Jamie going back to Cersei probably one of the most unpopular decisions Daenerys Burning Kings Landing Jon stuff like why are these things happening to my favorite characters why are characters making these kinds of choices those are the places where you really see a lot more like rage and that's the area where I have friction with a lot of the rest of the fandom because I don't agree I do think that people are more often than not wrong about the characters not the writers made the wrong choice with the characters and I'm sure we're going to get into that alright yeah I mean I think that works as a good intro as a good little taster for all that's to come I don't exactly know what we should tackle first in any particular order but I'm interested in asking a few things just the like what I got from the video sort of so you could call them like the two conversations we're probably going to have is stuff specifically to do with season 8 and the stuff specifically to do with criticism in general meta fans all that stuff around it if that makes sense so like I guess opening question what to you makes like a fandom toxic what is toxic to you well there's a lot of different things I think in the case of the game of thrones fandom right now the thing that makes them particularly toxic is sort of an over inflated sense of their own understanding so like people look at the show they're like this is who the characters are that like I've decided that Daenerys is this based on my interpretation of who she's been or this I've decided that Jamie is this based on my interpretation of who he's been and then people see things that contradict what they believed about characters and then they decide that there's no introspection it's the writers are wrong someone else did something wrong I was right the whole time so that is I think what fuels the toxicity the inability to look back and say huh maybe I need to look at this again maybe I need to reconsider this and maybe I was wrong about stuff and then instead we're getting a lot of just really like oh these writers are incompetent they don't know George R. R. Martin's vision I know George R. R. Martin's vision even though like they spoke to George R. R. Martin he told them his vision and then people are like no they didn't get it I get it here's what's supposed to happen here's what Jamie would do here's what Daenerys would do so I think that's a kind of a taste of how I see toxicity I guess Gary what would you like the response or yeah okay so my just real quick toxic fandom doesn't exist it's just fandom it's always been there we can talk to each other more so if we want to label it toxic or not I'm not too sure of course there's a few bad actors in there who just want to get nasty for the lulls and stuff but for the large part I've done a lot of live streams so it was smaller and I've talked to people in length other youtubers in length other friends in length and I really don't buy into like I had an ending in mind and it didn't meet my ending and I don't like it I think anybody who has even the most basic understanding game and thrones over the books and you do have to separate these two things and I have a hard time doing it myself and let me preface this by saying the exact ending for John for Daenerys for Jamie I can certainly see those things happening in the book it was contextually it didn't make any sense in season 8 because it required a lot more time to build up to that because that's what the foundation of that series was this was Lord of the Rings they tell you how the armor got paid for how they fed the troops how to boil leather this was what people bought into and then it just abandoned that towards the end to rush to an ending to get it over with because they split the final season they wasted a lot of time on a lot of characters that they didn't follow through on and they had to rush to an ending and I think that's the general consensus as far as you know Jamie acting out of character well he did because they didn't build up to him returning to Cersei they didn't finish his redemption arc at all and they did the same to Aria and Daenerys and John's whole relationship was forced it didn't and you know what can we blame that on the actors not having Kevin Street maybe but it all fundamentally falls to the writers in this and the writer's decision to take a year to take a two year break in between the series but not work on the series for the entire two years they worked on the series at the time they were in and out they weren't as in there as they were before they even mentioned that in the documentary that being said they didn't allow themselves enough time to finish they were heavily reliant on George to finish the book and I think George not finishing wins a winner had a large part to do with the reeling of this series and we have so many people who were not happy with this and again I am not gonna say these people didn't have an understanding I listen I'm no expert on anything I read the books a lot I watched the show a lot I think I have a basic understanding and I would think that a large portion of the fandom does as well and I think it wasn't satisfying I don't think people I personally don't have an ending in mind for anything and George can pass on all the information he wants but it's it comes down to a matter of talent if this is considered mean sorry it's a fact Dan and Dave don't have the talent George R. R. Martin do they had they alright well there's a couple great in the beginning but I can't understand how anybody would argue that the adaption was good towards the end okay so there's a lot to cover here the first thing so what you were talking about earlier about people don't have an ending in mind they just they don't like the way it's done so the it's not the what was done it was the execution right that's kind of the the phrase that's been thrown around a lot a lot of people present that as the consensus but it's really a in my in my experience a very false consensus like a lot of people will say that because it sounds good and it makes them sound objective but like for example on the subreddit like the book subreddit someone made a poll about like do you want would you like George R. Martin to do these things in the books and they're like the big things like Sansa Queen King Bran Daenerys Burns Kings Landing John kills Danny Jamie goes back to Cersei yes or no and in almost every case except John kills Daenerys people said no they did not want that in the books and it wasn't overwhelming it was a little bit over it was like 60% 50% and all these cases the poll had like something over I mean again it's a sample size of maybe like 2000 people but right there you get the sense that okay so people actually so some people yeah they'll say it's the execution but for a lot of people they're really just not gonna be okay with King Bran ever and there's a lot of like I don't think that's a fair question though because we saw the build up to King Bran in the show and it was awful because they skipped they made a terrible decision and skipped a season with Bran so people lost connection with that character. You can say if you tell somebody the ending without context they might not like it but if they say read George's interpretation of what they might like it. The question was do you want to see George adapt this and those people have five books of Bran they have five books of John they have five books of Daenerys and they don't want George to get there and that's not everyone but I think for me the idea that there is a consensus is just not true there is no consensus opinion some people don't like what happened some people don't like the way it's done a lot of people don't like both but this idea that like oh well I like some people say like oh you know everything that the show did I would be fine with it if it was done better some people feel that way but not everyone and when you have such a large fandom with like so many expectations you're never going to get that kind of a consensus and you do see a lot of a lot of people did watch Game of Thrones like sports fans like they're rooting for a team like a lot of people like Daenerys is my character and I'm all for I want Khaleesi to win I want Daenerys to win a lot of people are like John is my guy I want John to be the king I want John to kill the Night King so a lot of people watch it through that context and there is like an people aren't that rational there's an emotional drive there that colors how they interpret everything around that for one thing like someone asked me like why is it that I think that I'm so positive about the ending and part of it I think is that at the core of it Bran was my guy and so I had this like bias at the ending where it's like yeah I want to like this because Bran was my dude and he is the king at the end and so then I was able I think I was able to look at things a little bit more I was able to look back at things and be more open to what the ending was saying because it gave me a thing that I wanted whereas other people who didn't get anything they wanted aren't really willing to go back and rethink their opinions or rethink the ending because there's no why, why would they want to like something that shat on their favorite character I think it's possible for a fan to know a character better than a writer if you believe death of the author absolutely and I do believe it's possible for fans to know characters better than the writers I think in most cases fans do not know characters better than the writers I think do we want to pick a character and talk about him if you'd like do you want to pick let's talk about Jaime everyone loves Jaime Lannister he's a very popular character and so I was talking to a friend like how would you rate Daenerys' turn and I gave it an 8 out of 10 how would you rate Jaime's turn 10 out of 10 I literally do not think a single thing should have been done different with Jaime and that's a very unpopular opinion of the fandom so I you know I'd like to hear more about Jaime how you guys feel about him and give my opinion on that and well it's up to Gary you and me what do you want to do you go ahead first I went first last time so how would you explain the line I never really cared for them yeah this is the line that gets talked about the most I would explain that line with it's literally true if you go back over Jaime's story there is not a single instance of him going out of his way or expressing a lot of concern for the common people and the instance that people always think straight to is Aries he killed the mad king saved an entire city but if you think about it self defense Jaime would have died too in that fire you think he killed the mad king in self defense I think he killed the mad king because the option was die your father dies you never see Cersei again that's it or do something that is arguably also honorable and within your vows and you get to live naturally I would cite season 3 where he explains to Brienne because if he hadn't thousands would have died that's not actually what he says I actually I knew this was going to come up that scene literally right before this what he says is if your king had asked you to kill your own father and then stand by where women and children are burned would you have done it if you actually look at the context of that scene it's not about Jaime's like deep concern for the common people it's about honor and reputation like the last lines of that scene are by what right does the wolf judge the lion he's upset because people see him as a bad guy even though he upheld his vow to protect the innocent absolutely that comes after he's made that decision yeah but the thing is when you look at his emotion in that scene that's what it's about so he's so torn up when you're watching that scene and lots of people are like he's torn up because he's thinking about all of the women and children that would have died no he's torn up because of how people look at him but when you made that decision would you wouldn't you rather live then wouldn't you rather kill the crazy king and live then burn alive I don't know that was actually the definitive result even we don't know that Jaime didn't know where the safe areas of King's Landing would have been there were no safe areas of King's Landing they clearly were King's Landing was burned by Daenerys and all the deposits went off for the wildfire and yet there's still plenty of people who survived it's well in the show it's not entirely sure that all of the wildfire is still there but Jaime himself says that he didn't in another scene the crazy part or maybe it's in the same scene that Ares didn't think he would actually didn't think that he would burn he thought he would rise again to the dragon so Jaime believes that Ares is gonna die in this fire I don't think he was like well I could not kill the king and go hide anyway so we're taking the scene right you have an interpretation of it I have an interpretation of it is it valid? no I don't see how Ares is valid at all okay well in what way what is invalid about it the scene is about reputation so he's outraged the biggest moment in his life where he had to choose between the honor to three different he mentions the king, the people and his father and he chose the people because that would be the right choice ultimately to save the most lives and he's punished for it that's his reputation and it's all thanks to Ned Stark Ned Stark's the reason Ned Stark could have changed everything if he had actually addressed understood everything about Jaime but he's too quick to judge he's too altruistic, he judges Jaime immediately as a betrayer he killed his own king probably to save his own skin what a piece of shit but ultimately about the wildfire Jaime never tells Ned Stark about the wildfire in the books he never tells anyone in the show he tells everything I just said is contingent upon that sorry could you explain that again? everything I said is contingent upon Jaime not telling Ned that because that's Jaime's conclusion that Ned immediately judges him the worst possible scenario and it's done right Jaime Ned judges him because he's sitting on the throne he killed the king his father was taking the city Ned assumes because he is presumptuous but for understandable reasons he presumes that Jaime was just acting in the interest of his house which he wasn't but at the same time Ned doesn't know about the wildfire Jaime in his mind he's defending himself the selfish point of view is the lie is the failure to understand the scenario is the thing that everyone understands about Jaime that isn't true no the thing about a song of ice and fire and Game of Thrones is that decisions are never that clear cut there's always like two sides to every decision and this is very true of Jaime it's very true of Daenerys with with Ned Stark there's this question of oh is he all about honor well no actually when you really get into the secrets of Ned Stark he's actually all about family so there's like yes Ned Stark is honorable but he also puts his family above honor it's like yes I was going to say that's maintaining and honor the whole point of Jaime's character is trying to decide which honor outpaces the other Ned Stark obviously places the honor of his family's lives above the honor to his king yeah and in that instance so did Jaime but the point isn't like oh Ned Stark is wrong, Jaime is right the point is that Jaime doesn't he sees an ill in society in the way people judge other people on these contradictory vows and he's torn up about it but what he did didn't show he didn't risk his life for the common people and throughout the story he never does again he doesn't risk his life for the common people no so by common people could we boil that down to innocent person no common people is non-nobility no like civilians like so Brienne of Tarth not common people so how many characters have satisfied that in the story very few the story doesn't really follow the common people but the thing is he doesn't Jaime is in a position to do things for the common people all the time he just doesn't he gets absorbed by the personality that he'd accidentally created for himself that's who he is up until season 3 that's when everything starts to crack apart that's not that's part true part not yeah he's absorbed by this personality but once you're absorbed that is who you are there's no true self and fake self you are what you do I believe that he actually owned that persona until he was faced with a bunch of serious choices that he couldn't escape and then he comes to realize this isn't me I'm not Jaime Lannister the king slayer will be with Circe over everything else I do care but I'm confused how do you justify this idea that he doesn't do anything for the common people when he was at Winterfell yeah go back and watch those scenes what is the thing that drives Jaime to go to Winterfell it's Brienne when they ask him he looks at Brienne he says he repeats Brienne's words back to him later he goes to Brienne and he says the reason I'm here and I'm not the fighter I used to be but I would be honored to fight under your command doesn't he say that he made a promise to fight for the living he says it to Circe again it's about honor his honor not to the people interpretation though well yeah sure you can say it's interpretation but what happens is I have my interpretation and then at the end the show contradicts your your interpretation and affirms mine and so not just yours other people's right one interpretation is affirmed by the show at the end one is contradicted by the show and people are like bad writing rather than maybe this interpretation was wrong maybe this interpretation that Jaime a large portion of the fan base is wrong yes that's the way the story functions like the story is intended to hoodwink you into rooting for a tyrant the story is intended to like make you think that characters aren't going to do certain things Stannis won't burn his daughter Jaime won't go back to this well that's not rooting for a tyrant that's rooting for someone who then after the fact becomes a tyrant and then people's opinions change people weren't rooting for Daenerys after she became the tyrant no Daenerys was a tyrant the whole time and we'll get to Daenerys but with Jaime again there's this idea no he really cared about the common people well if you care about the common people you'll do things for the common people regularly right but he doesn't the point is he's absorbed by that persona but that's part of who he is he does find when he's brought to the brink the living versus death he can't do it anymore he can't be that person and this is scattered what he does for Brienne is crazy for Jaime Lannister that's why everyone starts to like him at season 3 they're like wow well again he he and you can't argue that he's in love with her at that point cause that would be ridiculous you what? you can't argue that he's in love with Brienne by the time he saves her from being raped when I said saving her from being raped okay well with that I mean what he did is he just he just said hey don't do that when he knew full well that the Jaime Lannister that everyone understands a nose would never have done that you can tell he's wrestling with it in that scene he keeps having loads of looks towards what they're doing with it taking her any nose what the right thing is he doesn't like Brienne I think Jaime admires Brienne a lot because she represents ideals that he really wants to embody but never absolutely she's him but he's been trapped inside this persona that was created unfairly by Ned Stark of course he wants to protect it no Ned Stark didn't she isn't him she's a version of him that he would like to be he never is he never fully finds that that's the thing, Jaime is complicated he's torn between these two selves and at the end he sort of realizes that it's guilt at the end he's like look at all of the awful things I've done that is who I am you're saying like oh no that's not the real Jaime that's just the persona I know it's great he argues he's a hateful person alright yeah go ahead Gary I'm gonna and I know this is what this is about is parsing out details but there I'm gonna borrow something from our good friend Robert Byer Burnett fair similitude it's whether the audience buys this because the fan is the arbiter of something is actually because they're buying this product and if this product wants to continue they do need to please a large portion of the fans not everybody but enough to keep it going well it doesn't have to keep going it's over well they got a prequel coming out right I'm sorry I'm just yeah but so Mahler just pointed out Jaime going back to Cersei again would make sense if they had finished his redemption arc because he didn't want her well I mean it could be argued he was going down there to save people because he wanted to go talk to her but then he ended up not wanting her to die alone and he probably felt like she didn't have anybody else in the world there's a million ways you can interpret but the dialogue was crap him fighting oh I'm blanking on his name now you're on at the end was just dumb as hell and then walking around with a mortal wound or afterwards I mean people just checked out at that point and you have to continue this whole series was based on grounding fantasy and making it digestible to Normies and it was for the longest time and they bought into this stuff and Normies are the vast majority of people who watch this show honestly and they just lost it at the end Jamie was acting out a character because they did rush absolutely everything some of the dialogue was just terrible and then a bunch of rocks or a bunch of stones falling on them when they could have walked 15 feet to the left and they would have been fine and then I mean the whole room was like they're not going to when you went back to the room it wasn't all collapsed they're trapped in this room there's nothing you could concede some of it is going to collapse it was utterly ridiculous the room they showed us after the carnage does not resemble the room we saw when everything was falling apart whatsoever alright well that's logistic things when you get into the logistics it deals with the death of important characters it's kind of important the rationale they aren't going to frog around he's mortally wounded she's losing it they're trapped in this room they can't figure it out should they have staged the room to look a little bit different after maybe the fans aren't reading a script they're watching a completed piece of art that is visual and that's all part of it that's all part of it and if they don't execute that well then that's part of his character even though it got executed the fact that there's a big hole at the top of one of the piles of bricks and Jamie starts pulling bricks off a different pile it's like why don't you just climb the pile with the gap and at the very least they would have survived by being at the top of that pile because as we saw nothing actually falls down on it because Tyrion sees it later it's a bizarre scene this is like staging things this is still character criticism because they apparently have no sense of survival for some reason but that's not like stuff like maybe they're exhausted and dying or at least he is like I said he was moving bricks from a different pile he had the energy to go from the beach all the way up to the top of the castle and now he's dying he was moving bricks from a different pile he had the energy he expected to row Cersei out to Pentos I mean he wasn't going to row to Pentos what do you mean he wasn't going to row all the way to Pentos what do you mean he was going to find like a boat where out on the bay well one of you were on ships and just hope they let him have it no you were on taught him how to swim real fast like a sailboat like again and this is stuff like it's kind of hopeless at this point well either way he's trying to get Cersei as far as he can he's trying to get Cersei in his unborn child as far as he can he doesn't know that he's going to survive he doesn't know how long he's going to survive and I'm sure like I don't know he would take actions to extend his survival time especially the survival of his lover and child he's trying his best but at this point he's dying again this is stuff that I don't really get too much into like that's not perfect but like whatever I mean all I'd be after is you'd have to consider it was pretty bad the way they did it even if it's just from a logistical point of view it was pretty bad I you know what I honestly I'd have to go watch it again like this kind of logistics is more than what I get into and if people are upset by that like I understand I I mean I guess a character is wanting to live this logistics what is that is a character wanting to live logistics I don't think that at any time I get the sense that they don't want to live just that they don't see a way that they can live what about the big open hole yeah I didn't even see that while I was watching like I'm not even lying but when we get into like for me like it's more about like who is Jamie why did he go back like stuff like that is more of where my attention is because that's where more of the complaints are there's this there's this sense with Jamie that like he goes back to Cersei like oh it's out of nowhere like I don't think there is a redemption arc Jamie is an exploration of redemption redemption but he's an exploration of the limits of redemption like there's only so much that this guy can change like at a certain point he has to reconcile think about who he's been what he's done what does he deserve does he deserve to hang out at Winterfell and live happily ever after with the most honorable knight in the story like no he well that's dependent on the actions that he decides to take which ultimately in his mind he has not he's willing to die to protect the world I don't really what do you mean die to protect the world he's literally on the front lines on Winterfell against the army of the undead again everyone is gonna die if they don't beat them there every single soldier there is extremely brave courageous and what I would call the upstanding citizen except when we get to episode 5 where they forget all of that sure but Jamie for him it's about his honor his honor to Brienne like that's where it's at it's not about innocent people but again you're saying like why doesn't Jamie think of himself the same way we think of him the same way you think of him and it's like well because he doesn't feel that way I see it as why did they write him awful dialogue to shoehorn him into an ending that we did not earn as a progression I don't but the thing that makes it awful is that you don't agree with what he's saying about himself but that's how he feels like he was gonna kill every man woman and child in river run to get back to Cersei he pushed a kid out a window like he killed his cousin he's still a guy who's done really bad things and never what would have happened if he hadn't pushed Brienne out the window what would have happened would have happened it's depends on how it depends on how well he brand understood what he was seeing so see that's another thing where like a lot of people like to have you guys seen Breaking Bad cool Breaking Bad people really get into like rationalizing Walt's actions some of them are rationalizes rational some of them are rational but there's like this habit of rationalizing Walt's actions oh no he had to do that thing he had to do that thing but like with Jaime when it comes down to it like the more of the five kings is his fault him and Cersei they yes it is it's because Joffrey is illegitimate no it's they created an illegitimate heir to the throne what did they think was going to happen if that secret got out you can't say that like oh it's stop stop stop stop the absolute people behind the war of the five kings little finger the name crazy sister Lysaren and we never get the answer in the show but in the book it's Joffrey that tries to get Bran assassinated sure those are all true the three people who are ultimately responsible for the biggest stones being moved to create the war of the five kings again this is like like you're just going back with the dominoes ultimately though yes little finger is part of it but little finger tries to get Ned Stark to make peace with the Lannisters when he comes to right after like Robert was dying and he goes to little finger and he's trying to get the city watch little finger actually tries to get Ned to make peace with Lannisters little finger's weird he's always up to at early season little finger his whole thing is to never be how does he justify it I don't know if you remember Gary he does want to be predictable he's always positioning himself trying to it's not clear that little finger was trying to create the war of the five kings no it's not about who's trying to create it it's about what we want to make peace with if it's not about who's trying to create it then what is the root cause of the war it's Joffrey's illegitimacy that's like saying that Ned just said it doesn't matter if you wanted to start it you may have started it little finger absolutely started it whether or not he intended to along with Lysa Arryn and Joffrey Baratheon but what caused the war of the five kings what are people fighting about well you got two significant moments Tyrion's kidnapping which results in Tywin starting a war which happened because Joffrey tried to assassinate Bran because they believed the star wait wait wait which happened because if you interrupts which happened because Jamie and Cersei are committing a crime are committing a crime we might say like oh they're in love whatever but they're committing a crime they're usurping the throne Robert expects Robert and the entire realm expects that Robert's children must be legitimate they are creating illegitimate children to take the throne and that's usurpation and crime continue Moller right so when Bran was pushed out the window the most they had was suspicion on the Lannisters but they never had anything to act on that was like Catlin's big thing so once Tywin acts on the war after Tyrion is captured the only other element is what happens in King's Landing which is directly resulting from Tyrion's capture Ned Stark takes ownership of that move which forces Jamie to attack him Ashley kills his men results of the Westerlands armies starting to assault the Riverlands which is something that Ned Stark denights the mountain for and demands Tywin return all of these extremely complicated things start to unravel and Ned Stark's position as Hand never would have occurred neither would suspicions of the Lannisters have happened if not for Lycea and Littlefinger poisoning the Hand of the King previous to Ned whether or not Jamie and Cersei have an illegitimate son under Robert Baratheon is literally irrelevant to the War of the Five Kings at that point it's very relevant because it's the reason that Stannis and Renly get involved no that's posts that's after all the other shit happens it's not the War of the Five Kings till the Five Kings are all at it Stannis and Renly Fine I'm just referring to the fact that war across the country begins not the specifics of how many Kings managed to make it into the war if we're being completely honest Bailon Greyjoy barely even counts he took over Winterfell and that was it agreed but if you want to talk about it as just like war then like well yeah the war between the Starks and the Lannisters isn't just because Jamie and Cersei have an illegitimate child it is in a lot of ways instigated because Jamie pushes a kid out a window of course you could say just suspicion but he did do it it's the follow up, it's not that it's the follow up assassination attempt it's that in a lot of ways there's like a lot of suspicion around that event people like Bran doesn't follow what's happening Catlin doesn't go to King's Landing without that happening and that means she doesn't cross Parthaterian on the road everything changes this is just like you're not wrong that all of these other events are important but ultimately you're trying to say that pushing a kid out a window did not instigate these events it's the inciting incident even George R. R. Martin has said by this logic everybody's great great great grandparents are responsible because they birthed all the people that resulted in these events I don't think that's the same logic George R. R. Martin has called Jamie pushing Bran out the window it's the inciting incident so Lannister starts the hunt it incited Catlin to Kinnaptarian which incited right, inciting incidents incite more incidents I mean really George R. R. Martin ultimately it's just a secret that if Jamie and Cersei were as smart as they thought they were probably could have kept but there was also Ned peeking around too it's an event of the TV show that's why it's considered the inciting incident but we could have gone further back we could have started further forward you keep saying that as if it means something well it I mean I guess if you don't care an author's never be wrong if we establish that writers can make mistakes authors can be wrong but again this is all like subjective like you say oh well where did it start okay well you can say that it started here the question is like are you guilty about the things that he's done of course he does and he does feel guilty and maybe you think no it was okay he was stopping a war well maybe Jamie isn't the kind of guy that feels that way and it's okay for us to disagree with the characters about the things that they do and how they feel about their own action but that's who Jamie is and that's how he feels and he's always really been like this guy like you say trying to like buy into a a version of himself that's the crueler like the king slayer persona but is also really pulled down by guilt inciting incidents are subjective someone said that in the chat and that's true Hitler invading Poland was just subjectively how do you even conclude that inciting incident is subjective someone said it in the chat okay and you don't believe that right? you guys are saying that the inciting I'm saying that the inciting incident Jamie pushes Bran out the window you guys are saying now Jordan Martin is wrong it's Joffrey with the okay fine the inciting incident is Jamie and Cersei having sex now the inciting incident is them deciding going up to the tower and just keep drawing it back the first significant place where we can never go back is once the assassination attempt on Bran is attempted I know someone is actually trying to kill him as opposed to he fell off a wall well the idea that you can never go back yet you can always go back there's no like Katelyn didn't have to conclude that it was the Lannisters well she did because her sister told her that they are the ones that killed Jon Arryn right so she thinks that they are conspiring to take over the throne which makes a lot of sense that they would kill Bran as an attempt to start all the Starks why would they start with Bran because it's an easy way to kill somebody if you knock him off a building when he climbs them why would they be in the tower again it's kind of a silly place to take it I actually agree with you and that's why it's unlikely that Katelyn would have concluded that they had killed him or tried to kill him in that instance but once someone tries to kill him in his bed it becomes very likely that someone probably pushed him off I mean sure but this isn't like you're talking trying to get this from like I don't necessarily not to be overly competitive in this debate remember the knife that leads them directly to Tyrion like how is that moment not the inciting incident it's that assassination attempt that's what unravels everything Katelyn tells Ned subjectively it is subjective all narrative is subjective all narrative is subjective is it subjective that Daisy Ridley or that Rey is a character in The Last Jedi no that is a fact alright well moving along then so um so like you're trying to get to this like again I don't really agree but like I don't think this needs to be the debate because you're trying to get like what is objectively the inciting incident because Jaime is going to believe I don't know you're not counter arguing we're talking about like Jaime's beliefs like I give you a whole bunch of references like four different ways that moment moves into all of the ways to create the war and your response is that is your subjective perspective it doesn't matter we're talking we'll move on to that once you so do you agree that it is the inciting incident with the assassination do you finally agree with that we can move on to whether or not Jaime thinks that the assassination is the inciting incident I do not agree and what's the point in asking whether or not Jaime thinks it we can't even get past narrative being subjective narrative is subjective it's not makes no sense because I don't see inciting incident that way did Daenerys kill hundreds of thousands of people in episode 5 or is that subjective no that's well technically we're never given enough there we go here a bunch of tangled Christmas tree lights you can't possibly figure your way out of this it's not subjective other than the things that aren't sure some things are objective like a fact but like what is the inciting that's like saying the main character to me inciting incident is like main character who is the main character subject game of thrones it depends on what your definition of main is right it depends on your definition of inciting incident and once you create a groundwork for main character then you can assess that objectively I agree I would say the definition of inciting incident I would say the inciting incident is the you know I would honestly have to look more into it if I'm being like totally honest like this isn't my area that's fine so what I would say my definition of inciting incident is the incident everything comes back to where it all where all of the balls roll from where nothing can stop them because everything else is going to be a cause this this because this this if that's it then I would again come back to the pushing out the window so you think there was only one way for that to result that once he's pushed out the window the war was just set to happen yes because well because you're saying that like when Joffrey you're okay let's follow your you're saying that like oh well no the inciting incident is Joffrey sending the cat's bar right but but the fact that it goes to war is based on people making certain decisions right it's possible that people make different decisions yes so you're agreeing that it was possible for Catlin to not not take Tyrion hostage right there was no reason for to take him hostage when brands pushed out the window the cat's poor leads to Tyrion the attempt on brands life leads her to Ned but did Catlin have to take Tyrion hostage how would anything else take place if she bumps into Tyrion on the road why would she not take him hostage when she has information confirming that he was the person who ordered the assassination on Bran well she doesn't have information confirming yes she does she trusts Littlefinger why does she trust Littlefinger because they grew up together shouldn't she know not to trust him then if you fucking kidding me right now I just think that this is like again you're not gonna like it but again this isn't really like what I want to be talking about just personally I'm not here to debate the inciting incident you see it as this I see it as this we can move along yeah it's Jaime's head yeah I agree so we have to separate again book because we know it's in Jaime's head in the book in the book he is concerned with his honor he is really stuck on making sure the Stark are okay the whole river run negotiation goes down completely different in the show and they skip past a lot of his redemption arc and yes he was on a redemption arc it had to happen that way because if we in the book if we get to the ending that George is intended if that indeed is it it would have flipped that and it would have made sense with build up because George as you know loves to build up big grand plans and have them go sideways that's pretty much the only constant in Game of Thrones or in the Song of Ice and Fire but at the end the audience did not buy for a large portion of the audience I'm not gonna say everybody personally did not buy Jaime's decision to just turn around and go down there it didn't feel natural to me it didn't work for me in any way shape or form and I think I have proof with Dave Benioff having to explain everything at the end of every episode they have those little well they've been doing that since the beginning like even when people weren't if it was bad before then it doesn't make it okay I'm just saying that we don't know explaining at the end because it got bad like unless you think it was always bad and they were always explaining before they were explaining they did not explain as much as they did this last season you can't tell me that that's the case because initially Game of Thrones has a lot of characters so it was always good to have if you have a group of people watching Game of Thrones to have the one person who did read the book that can explain because there's a lot of characters in there and there's a lot of information for people to take in so that was good and that's partially why they did it but they started at the end really getting into character intention and having to you know Danny kind of forgot what that contradicted everything that was in that led up to that because somebody did mention that the Iron Fleet was still around so as far as Jamie is concerned again subjective objective whatever his arc fell apart because he stopped being the Jamie Lannister that we had watched through the previous seasons as did Evercare when did his arc fall apart? when did his arc fall apart for you? for me Dorne Dorne he started but it was still he was still somewhat on a redemption arc though I didn't like it but he was still on that redemption path but then it just stopped everything just stopped when did it stop? did it stop the exact moment I'll have to go back and look but it stopped for me personally and that's all I can I can really speak for but a lot of people agreed with me in my live streams and I've heard that from others as well so and we can see in the chat when did it stop for you in the chat when did you stop buying Jamie's redemption arc when did the writers stop believing in it because they ran out of time damn show looks like the stream went down so let's fast forward this yeah it's happening for me too give it just a second hopefully it'll pop back up and we can continue right along I can hear you I can hear you yeah let me see looks like we've been hacked oh now you stopped nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah everything just stopped I refreshed and nothing let me see still not back up yeah it doesn't look like it is up still spooling I can still keep the live chat but I'm not actually seeing the stream itself thing huh give it a second I will use the loo in the meantime stitch them in post back up I see it back up okay I don't know if YouTube will stitch those hopefully they do if they don't also yeah it's back up for me as well um NerdRotic yes I kind of wanted to talk about something so I do want to get to Danny but before that something you talked about is like well the audience didn't buy it and the audience has to buy it right that's like a big part of your um belief and I do understand that like the question is like oh well I mean I don't know if it's a belief it's what I've witnessed sure right um whatever word we use for it um I um I do understand that like this the premise that this show is being made for X number of people and if most of those people don't buy it and that means they failed in some way and based on that criteria then yeah sure like how good it is can just be a poll like right you can take a poll and if 80% of the people if 70% didn't like it then that's an obvious fail hell it's 50 the fail um but that's not and by that there's really like no argument for me to make um but that's not really the way I look at it when I look at why people didn't buy it I don't think it's about them not setting it up again like I don't think that the reason people didn't buy Jamie's turn is because it wasn't set up I think it's because people had people would watch the show for an hour and then read about it in articles and in fan theories and talk about it with people and then like build up their own like conception of who Jamie is and what he would do and so their own like sort of um expectations and presumptions about the story started to bleed into the actual story which is why there isn't a lot of people like willing to go back and like think oh was I wrong about anything like that to me is like my main uh concern is that we're so sure that we're right the first time around and we're not interested in going back and being like let me look at this again and see if I'm just mistaken which for me that's a thing that I did I was very wrong about Daenerys and since and I've like checked out her story and Cersei another character I think I really didn't understand till like kind of recently till I really looked at her story as a whole and thought oh that's what this was all about so I do I don't think that it's just like oh the audience didn't buy it that means they failed I think there is an element of the audience um getting really into the show was to convey concepts and most people don't understand the concepts or agree with them I would say that is a failure do you think the goal of the show is to convey concept I mean I agree I just didn't I would say not everyone agrees with that all right um I think that uh I think that the reason a lot of people didn't get it uh or the reason a lot of people the concepts weren't conveyed is because people were are very um kind of distrustful of the show by the end like it's scoot over their favorite characters it's made a lot of mistakes especially in season 6 and 7 there's like there's premise that you don't have to trust the show it's possible that the writers are just wrong so it's easy to be like oh well everything is wrong then fuck it um I don't know well if you have a lot of people who say that um it's wrong for you know reason acts and you have a lot of people who say that it's right for you know the same thing they're all watching the same show how do you how do you differentiate between the two how do you how do you find out who's correct um well it's a really for instance all the people oh well all the people what's the methodology that you would use to tell the difference between a fan who didn't like the show because it didn't end of the way that they personally wanted it to end and a fan who didn't like it because it didn't make any sense how would you how would you find the difference between the two a lot of different ways I think you just have to level like a kind of a discussion like we're having now um get I mean sometimes it's easy like if someone's like oh I didn't like the fight choreography it's like all right well there you go um but if someone says like so well we can take that example is that a valid reason to say the show's bad or an invalid one I think almost everything is valid because it's a show and people are allowed to feel how they want to feel about it um I do think it's about I didn't I didn't I didn't personally enjoy most of the choreo not choreography like the military strategy sort of the the way the long night episode was done I personally wasn't a huge fan of that um I also didn't like the uh are you calling the night king personally um but you have done it different I I would have no idea how to stage a battle I do I'm just asking if you would have done it different not how or anything just if you would do it different yes all right like I would I would have uh I think that people should have died off a little bit more unceremoniously in that battle um and I think Theon should have killed the night king those are my like a highly high level like that's what I think needs to but that's just you know that's just my opinion all right well uh I like Theon killing the night king that would have been cool yeah I think that um for me uh the reason for that is that the night king embodies death that's conceptually what he is and Theon overcame death by accepting death because death is an inevitability with Arya they had this whole like oh you say not today to the god of death but then it's just like that's just a line uh everyone dies like Theon accepted death uh went into it with courage and he I think he's not delaying death not about stopping right delaying death but like I think the for me personally I think the the more compelling way to deal with death deal with that character is to um embrace it and uh go into it in the way you can be proud of and that's what Theon sort of does he overcomes just for like a second his trauma and he you like that he dies thinking he failed to protect Bran um I don't love that uh but you know I think that's awfully insulting to Theon as a character to have that ending for him but hey I don't I don't you know I I wouldn't go so far as to call it insulting I think it's kind of sad um but that's the thing like Theon it's not uh there's a line in the books like uh men's lives matter not their death there's something I'm sure I'm butchering it but like yeah maybe his last uh second was like oh I failed but uh you know he died knowing that he did his best uh it's not my favorite but I do uh I do I do think I would have done that differently I don't like Arya but by the end it was not at the top of my list of things about the season anymore you know what I mean because when I watched episode three which was got me pulled in what got me pulled into all of this when Arya just shows up from the ether in Stabsum um I know the first that I one of the first thoughts that I had when I saw that was how the hell did you get here how did you get past an entire army of people um this doesn't make any sense at all yeah this doesn't seem to make any sense at all that you are able to just apparently materialize right behind him um and so that for me that's one of those things that is a I don't know if you would call that logistics however you're using it but to me that seems like just something that's impossible for anyone to do but it just happens so that a thing can occur those are the kinds of things that for people like me really take us out of a show something happens just because it needs to happen regardless of how much sense it really makes those are the kinds of things that make a story crumble those are the things that make that make writing just fall apart it's the execution of these things that happen and I couldn't agree more with that and that's what uh that's what caused Game of Thrones season 8 to collapse overall was they had that ending uh they had a meeting with George R Martin uh Dan and Dave uh it was years previous where he sat down at a dinner and uh I'm not remembering this perfectly but he basically yeah it was yeah and he gave them the ending not uh it's some context for what led up to it but not a ton and they had to fill in a lot of blanks and that's not sorry to interrupt that's not quite right um he gave them the ending at the beginning uh they knew the the basic ending from the beginning he gave them the broad strokes like alright here's like everyone's character arc here's like everything here are all my outline is what he gave them uh broad strokes but they had already made decisions that wouldn't connect with those broad strokes uh because of the sample chapters we've seen with wins a winner uh and you know we were talking about this prior to the show um aria's chapter uh that they used just completely out of context and it didn't fit at all within the show and it was executed poorly I'll say just to be nice uh and so so just to be clear so d&d knew what the endings would be from the beginning they knew they knew the very base like the new king brand they knew the I think they knew like the I don't know the detail but they knew the end um they had all that time to set it up properly and between season 3 and season 4 they got like kind of georgiar martin's like big info dump like here's what I have um so like here's what I have here's the broad strokes I haven't written it yet I hear a lot of people saying they didn't know at all could enough if they knew king brand if they knew king brand why would they no they definitely knew king brand um there's foreshadowing for king brand in the oh I don't you know uh when you go back and watch season 1 king brand is very believable at least for me no I believe king brand but leaving him out for a complete season is dumb it's a bad decision it disconnects the viewer with the character um so and then his just his being robot brand towards the end with no build up uh yeah it's a character once he comes back brand is you know brand is my favorite character in the books I love brand in the books uh brand is complicated because I actually like understand why they made the decisions that they did with brand I don't know if I agree with them but one thing is like brand story is a story written about a child um and it's hard to take that and make that a story about a teenager slash adult um so that's where the talent comes in you I mean well I guess now that we're talking about talent it's like a slightly different you know we said at the beginning like how bad our dnd versus how good is the ending are very kind of different discussions but I do think people are underestimating just how complicated this story is um like for one like when I talk to most people like where did it really go off the rails right they'll say season five uh he's most book fans most most uh so not everyone most most people will just say season eight but when I kind of like you know people are really into it they'll start to say season five and that makes sense because seasons one through four are covering the first three books in season five they have to do like feast and dance um I think people don't quite realize just how impossible those books are to adapt onto television what do you think do you think the fact that those stories were spread across two books is why they had to end up killing Barristan the way they did I can't give an answer on that I was gonna say I don't until we know how Barristan's story actually ends I can't say that for sure okay the question wasn't necessarily important the the what I was trying to prove with my point was the biggest issues fans have with season five don't to me tell me ah you see they had to do that because of the story being all messed up between two books that they were adapting like fans have issues with just straight up singular decisions like um I guess you'd have to specify a little more like who is fans what are the issues Gary just remind me if I'm missing some but like Barristan's death was a big issue people have with season five um the death of Stanis basically Stanis' whole story in season five people very upset with that um what else is there because I'd have to re-watch season five season five that's hard home it's got Arya's first season in Braavos it's got uh Sansa being given over to Ramsey that's a big sticking point for people well little little finger not knowing about the Boltons was very hard for anybody to buy that was a weird choice from D&D so what I'm getting at I don't actually consider it the source of these issues is well it's tough to adapt these two books to a season of TV I'm just like oh no it's just very singular specific decisions they're making that we're pissing everybody off I'm assuming you know that the actor for Barristan pleaded with them not to kill him that way because that's just not yeah I do know about that you know for one I don't know things like Barristan especially also Sansa's storyline we actually don't know where that's going in the books there's a lot of really conflicting ideas in the fandom about where she's going to go um Barristan also like some people swear that he's gonna turn over to um young griff other people myself I think he's going to be killed by the brazen beast he's going to be killed by the like like the Shave Pate is going to send the have the brazen beast just kill him because he want he will have killed the child hostages we're getting into really book heavy stuff but um for me like I don't you see like I don't know if the thing that you're saying about singular decisions and what I'm saying are necessarily mutually exclusive um I don't personally love uh season 5 I will say I actually like season 5 better than season 6 and 7 for me 6 and 7 are my real sticking point um I think that the difficulty with adapting feast and dance is that you have you split the books over like half the characters are in one book half the characters are another some of them are in both for some reason um that's very hard to adapt like some people say oh no just use the boy leather reading list you just do them in chronological order but like well if you do that then you're you're dividing up the character arcs right like season like book 5 the reason he did it that way is that a dance with dragons would cover john's like an arc for john snow like he would start here start as lord commander and assassinated but if you split them up then like then where do you like end it uh right again this that's where the talent part comes in um I can't think of the idea that something is difficult to do you're paid to do that difficult job that that's your job is to do something that is difficult you know I agree you're saying that something is difficult that it's hard to do is not an excuse for failure it might be an explanation to some degree but again that's where the talent and the capability come in well I agree excuse implies like to me it's an explanation not an excuse um but again the idea of excuse implies that like justice needs to be done or like if you don't if you hear that and still don't forgive them and that's up to you if you hear that and you don't like still don't like it then that's fine that's um for me though the place where I just kind of interject is that so a lot of people see this and they're like see it's because they're idiots they don't know how to write they don't know the characters they don't know I think it's like well you know George R. R. Martin has spent eight years like on the last on the winds of winter um the idea that like all D&D should have just like in a in a year done this thing that George R. Martin himself couldn't figure out how to do which was keep his characters together in one book but we don't have any context for exactly why that happens beyond maybe lines from him what if he's busy with something else he's lost the passion for Game of Thrones what if he's right we only have to right sure we have to assume but is it not possible that the reason is that this story is so expansive so complex that it's actually just very hard to adapt and that's not saying you have to excuse them but that is it's almost like they try I mean they do did do it and they did try and a lot the thing about season 5 is like yeah I didn't love season 5 you guys seem like you didn't love season 5 most people loved season 5 like if you look at the way it's received like yeah there's like you know there's that episode with Sansa that really stuck in people's crop but for the most part people like season 5 and you know I don't like season 6 personally that's my I don't know what's my least favorite but that's the season that I really harp on the most people love season 6 the last two episodes of season 6 does it mean it's good or not well good is subjective to me anyway does it adhere to the qualities of good writing consistency it's not in my opinion I don't think so different people have different qualities of good writing we have a state as well they were offered way more time and way more season but they didn't take it they were offered that but they had a plan that they thought this is gonna again there's also the idea that like oh well they wanted Star Wars money so they left I don't buy that because they came up with the outline before they were offered Star Wars money they were offered the Star Wars money very like a couple few years ago they had this plotted out and if they really wanted to hurt like they spent the last two years I mean you can say that they should have done it faster but they spent two years on those last six episodes shocking sure you can say that it's shocking I think it's more to do with just how we don't like the long night maybe but like that required a lot of work there was a lot of shooting there like the bells in the long night are even if you don't like them let's say they're shit they're still cinematic shit so obviously you know why that would take a long time I don't think anyone's denying that work wasn't done it's that the final product was low quality well yeah that's the argument I'm just like kind of you might be talking to three people who don't care about if it's hard or not because I certainly don't care if it's difficult or not I care about the finished product sure I mean that's I'm sure we're going to get back to talking about the finished product you know they filmed the Lord of the Rings trilogy in 274 days so it's very impressive I don't know what else to say about that Lord of the Rings is a different animal though in terms of they skipped some narrative stuff that was pretty important contextually about the ring but they had the source but they yes they did but they skipped it and they still executed it well I you know after it didn't bother me at all that they didn't bring that stuff up because it was executed properly to me anyway I love Lord of the Rings and I thought they did a good enough job showing some of the stuff that the ring does that they probably could have explained a little better and it didn't take the audience out of it just because something is hard doesn't mean somebody shouldn't do anything and yeah I think it should be talked about that they made this decision not my position at all right that because it's hard they should so like I don't know where you guys are a lot of these communities like Free Folk and like D&D just talked about like they're the worst dumbest people on the planet and I think it's like how many people could adapt this story how many people have that talent how many people do you think I'm actually curious how many people do you think like a percent oh percent less than one yeah okay less than one for sure but like everyone on every subreddit is like I could do it I know just do this easy so I'm not saying that like complaints are invalid because it's hard I'm saying that like it's hard so don't act like anyone could do it don't act like you have to be an idiot not to do it that's my stance anyway I think I use this analogy with Major Lee about TLJ defending like Ryan Johnson's effort just like we've got this target and what I think your picturing is like they've shot and they've hit just off the bullseye let's just say halfway to the target they just missed and this other guy's like I could hit that bullseye and you're like could you really though while I'm arguing like oh they didn't just miss the bullseye D&D like shot themselves in their head when they were supposed to hit the bullseye like this is an insane degree of kindness that I would literally re-roll anybody making it again like Tommy Wiseau I would take as long as he took the time to watch the whole show in advance I would I would watch Tommy Wiseau's I know but I'm unironically arguing that I think he would have had more respect for the characters than D&D seemed to okay if you actually mean that well I mean just a small sidebar like what would you say is the most disrespectful writing you've ever seen to a character in just anything in your entire life from an author in anything you know I did not come prepared with that oh I'm not saying if you don't have an answer that's fine but I was thinking of the time ahead you have anything what do you think of the last Jedi for example I don't care about the last Jedi okay I really don't like it's it's something we're like a lot of the complaints people have I don't agree with I think it's kind of a dumb movie more Star Wars we're not gonna get it I think more Star Wars it's just dumb in your video you say that there are characters that you don't think were handled well yes maybe one of those, maybe you could Aria, Aria would you ever describe it as disrespectful to Aria or you wouldn't use that word at all I would not use that word personally I'm not offended if people use it wrong, 100% of you use it but I think that Aria because like I think Aria is a character who um and it's gonna be probably everything I'm saying is controversial to most of this audience but I'll say that I think putting Sansa in the Jane pool storyline is less offensive than putting Aria in the Lady Stoneheart because so Aria is sort of turned into this game breaking character right we were talking earlier about how does she get past all the soldiers well for a couple seasons now Aria is like I can kill anyone at any time because I'm just that good from a few months of training and I'm like that's not interesting to me I think with Aria the showrunners sort of traded out um empowerment they sort of tried to depict empowerment through just strength she's tough at killing people so she's empowered rather than like really exploring what what her spending more time with what her trauma is uh I had a reddit post about Cersei the other day and um I think that one of the biggest misses at the end of season 6 Aria feeds Walder Frey to his kids to him and then slices his throat and then in opening season 7 she killed the rest of his family and then D&D are like well this is you know it's a really dark path you gotta wonder for Aria and then they sort of never have any real consequences come from for me that's something that I think was not handled well it's an area where like the theme of Aria's of a lot of the stories how war and how violence harms the human soul is sort of lost in Aria like we see it a little bit in season 7 which is season 7 Winterfell is probably the worst storyline they've ever done we see a little bit of it there so what was that I'm just happy that you'd think that's bad yeah I think that's the worst thing a lot of people hate Dorne but at least Dorne wasn't like ended I will give it to you that Dorne was crap but I was way more upset Sansa and Aria outsmarting Littlefinger and not only that but the part where Aria like Foe tries to kill Sansa or threaten her I don't even understand what those things are anymore to me that was dumb not because she did it or not because she threatened it but because it didn't do anything that it had some kind of consequences like Aria leads Aria gets so against Sansa that she leads a rebellion or something that's stupid but if she had done something that had some kind of consequences then I would maybe be interested in that but instead it's just oh they argue a bit and it gets weirdly violent in words and then nothing bad happens because they figure out that it's Littlefinger because of course they do and then it's over I mean so Ryan refocus then should we talk about Daenerys sure that's the big one opening statements so someone else me okay Daenerys' story is about how we can rationalize and support tyrannical methods when they're being leveled against systems that we deem abhorrent and then when we change our perspective and we see those same methods being leveled against a system which we have more empathy for they start to actually look like tyranny so I think in that regards the area that people are wrong about is that oh Daenerys turns she changes completely in the last it's like no Daenerys just was who she always was it's just that the system is different I think that's what they wanted but they didn't get there because Daenerys you might call this a logistical argument what the hell is she doing killing a bunch of screaming civilians when her only issue is Cersei I would not call that logistical no but are you asking? so what I'm referring to is like when you're mapping out King's Landing you're like Lorne Mowers her way to Cersei why? well her issue wasn't just Cersei I think you have to look at Daenerys and think well what is her experience been conquering people and then ruling when she takes Marine the people rise up with her cause and they're like alright we're with you we also want to be free so let's make Daenerys our queen and so then they take the city Daenerys has made queen and then despite all that all these people come in and they're like well she's not our queen and she's not from here and they start a movement against her so then she has to deal with that in Westeros issue where she's being rejected by everyone in the north they're rejecting her in King's Landing they're rejecting it the common people don't want Queen Daenerys because there's no class consciousness there's no sense that but Daenerys is selling we want to buy she just doesn't have her ear to the ground on what this society wants like she did in Slaver's Bay what she's doing when she's she's basically trying to bypass that issue like no I'm gonna rule through fear and when you rule through fear often times in like medieval feudal societies like yeah it means showing that you can kill civilians with impunity because if you can do that you are the top dog you're the lord you're the king you're the queen one of them is just a mafia protection racket I don't know I think living in a castle with a dragon at your beck and call would do that just fine instead of killing tens of thousands of innocent people Rags you're wrong literally just under like a million oh well we don't ever get the number but an insane amount I think it would be safe to say I mean you saw the racket right Rags the population of King's Landing is one million zigzagging as if the purpose was to try and kill as many innocent people as possible like as if as she was doing it as if that was the goal while ignoring the castle which was interesting right there she didn't totally know she she fucked up that castle um but I think that was other eventually yeah eventually was to instill fear and uh essentially show herself as someone that you do not want to cross like don't try and rebel against me don't try and replace me with Jon Snow that was her goal immediately assassinated by the person she thought would not assassinate her yes interesting how that works that all worked for you you know it didn't work the first time around it was an issue where like when I first saw it I'm like no this isn't this doesn't this isn't and then I went back and I sort of rewatched the show not the whole show but I rewatched certain episodes and like certain parts of it and my perception of who Daenerys was really changed on a second watch like I really saw things that I hadn't really noticed before um and saw that like actually yeah this this person is first of all kind of crazy um like people say she went I know she's she walked into a funeral pyre uh that's crazy um she had confirmation the fire doesn't burn her up to that point so yeah it's never been in crazy she's never been in fire she's been in hot things she's never touched fire um well the second she walks into it and doesn't burn I think that's confirmation isn't it yeah well I think if it actually actually started to burn her she wouldn't have just stayed there I mean she set up an entire like ritual with the dragon she was like I'm gonna I'm gonna go in if she had started walking into the fire and it burned her do you think she would say nothing and continue walking I think it's even you're not gonna hear me you don't have to be a doctor mate right no I'm this is a joke I'm not a doctor but I tend to think that if people are burning they will naturally move away from the thing like immediately you just naturally so like so like yeah of course I think that if started burning her she would move away but I think a crazy person would do that too uh because you would your physical impulses would take over is there any and is there anything that anyone could do that couldn't be justified by justified by saying they were crazy yes um but it's not just crazy right or I don't sorry of that question could you give me an example I I don't I don't know what something I mean I explain this and maybe I think this will answer your question um it's not just crazy right it's not just like it's that this person is willing to go to a certain extremes to uh to pursue what they believe is right um like people are like oh well Daenerys never punches down like uh actually she has uh and people are like oh Daenerys uh never um never tortures people yes she does uh Daenerys never harms harms the innocent she does actually like all of those things like she is done before like everything we focus on the landing huh focus on that third one oh which is the third one so uh let's just go through the innocence she's killed or let's say okay she murdered any innocence um well when I said innocent I mean someone who is not guilty um yes uh in season five she feeds a man to her dragon uh to send a message but she's under the impression that he is a man that's a part of a group that's destroying the city she's not under she she thinks that well let me she's like I don't know who's part of it I'm gonna gather up all the the leaders of marine bring them here and I don't know which one of you is guilty in which one of you is innocent it turns out all of the financiers of the sons of the harpy were from other slave cities but um anyway she's like well it's probably one of you guys I'm gonna pick a random one feed him to a dragon yeah I mean uh aren't they slavers as well so that doesn't sound like they have been slavers yet yeah there's there's a rationale there and it's all in favor of dominating with a peaceful society for the people who live there like that's her end goal she's trying to prevent the sons of the harpy from causing insane chaos in her city so uh let's talk about rationale because remember earlier I mentioned Walter White here it's actually way more applicable um yes there is a rationale there and when I saw it I was like you know even though that guy might not have been guilty I'm okay with this because like fuck him he was a slaver right I'm not going that far I'm not saying she was morally right I'm saying that from her perspective what she's doing is for the greater good but like we feel that impulse right but when you look at the audience I think is meant to like kind of understand um it's a grisly scene it is grisly but when you think about it like did she do it just to send a message or did she just do it because she was fed up this was right after Barris and Selmy died and you see when she's doing it she actually enjoys like it's kind of like a cruel and unusual thing to enjoy that kind of suffering on other people but in a lot of cases Daenerys uh does like you look at her face when she burns people there's like a weird satisfaction kills Walder Frey yes like as I was saying before like they didn't they didn't explore that uh like Sansa when she kills yes yes like like again that was also in my reddit post from the other day like they didn't really explore those well enough although I will say there's there's a bit of a difference between like like this is a person who is specifically okay wait hurt me like this is like a person who has tortured me and I know they're good with Daenerys it's often and it's with people who have not you just expressed that you actually felt like a sort of fuck yeah who to kill that guy does that make you crazy I'm exaggerating I would never I would never actually uh do anything like that I would never like um support but you know like uh here's the thing um that's a good question actually maybe uh you don't know who knows um no I'm asking you I hope not but so you can't definitively say you aren't crazy you can't say that with confidence it's subjective maybe I don't know like really you do believe you're not crazy right I do believe I'm not crazy but all right people it's good to it's good to get a confirmation that's what you think all right here anyway so um with Daenerys okay let's take another example um Joffrey um executes Sansa's father and then forces her to be engaged to him for political reasons right because it's like I need this to uh sustain my political uh dominance over this uh country well really seriously tell them to do that well marry her you'll get Winterfella if the Stark men are killed yes um Daenerys executes his Dar's father and forces him to be engaged to her hmm that is a tyrannical thing to do but she does it because she sees it as for the greater good yeah but so you remember Daenerys kills the father without understanding the context of who the father is while Joffrey kills Ned Stark who's possibly one of the most respected militaristic characters in Westeros um Joffrey uh well first of all I'm not saying that Daenerys and Joffrey absolutely not uh Joffrey is far more statistic uh has no uh more morals or like sense of justice or whatever but from Joffrey's perspective uh Ned Stark is saying that he is illegitimate and he does not know himself oh yeah Joffrey's got a rationale he's got a rationale like Ramsey's rationale is I like causing pain Joffrey actually Daenerys yeah those are clear so Daenerys um uh the thing is Daenerys might like causing pain more than we realize is part of what I'm getting at so when this when Daenerys takes marine uh Barris can sell me tells her hey look give them a trial like show them a better way uh trial is important uh we need to like establish a system of rules and justice and she's like and he's like you know be merciful and Daenerys is like no I'm gonna be just and so she just decides that like well these are slavers and I am going to crucify all of the slavers because they crucified uh children I for an eye um so you could say that yeah she didn't know that his daughter's father uh was innocent was innocent of the crucifixions maybe his daughter was lying um maybe things we never know because we never know maybe she shows like instant remorse when she realizes that when he says it whether or not he's lying she does show I mean she just has to believe it's debatable there's a there's a sense that maybe she questions her actions but she that's what remorse remember her face when one collateral damaged little person is killed yeah she lost of her dragons I do remember that I mean I'm enjoying pain there huh she enjoys pain sometimes she doesn't enjoy pain other time she sees the these people as her people because they have chosen her right that's what I for an hour her like these people are not her enemies when she by the time she's in King of landing she sort of sees the common people as her enemies because they are not rising up like the people of Marine did they have not accepted her it's the same in the north like remember in like the opening shots to season 8 like well may I ask how these landing rows up against her oh no I'm saying that they didn't wrote maybe I miss spoke they didn't rise up for her yeah you know you're absolutely right there is a piece of dialogue where she says the people of Marine basically did it for her she didn't really have to do a lot and then Tyrion is like they can't do it in King's Landing because they will kill their families if they were to do something like that and the conversation doesn't really develop into a conclusion of a rationale it's in a you can desperately see D&D trying to shoehorn in these sorts of like hey they're not being that great the people of King's Landing you know maybe maybe they deserve to be massacred I don't know they're not doing great they're not doing great right now here's the thing though it's like we say but this has been set up for a long time Daenerys has threatened to burn cities multiple times in the story threatening to and doing is yeah but that's the thing that's that's how like tyranny sort of works like you get the threats and people on the side of the tyrant like they're never going to do that and then they start doing it like because most people can draw clear distinctions between a threat to do something oftentimes threats are empty they're just meant to you know a further goal in the actual execution of a threat and the execution of that threat to a ridiculous point but who else is making those kinds of threats Cersei Cersei good example is Cersei the kind of person we want to say Daenerys is is John making those kinds of threats why would they not they're trying to rule so what is your point that the threats of I think those threats are meaningful and they say things about how her rationale works and what she believes I would never defend Daenerys as a I wouldn't want to be friends with her like she kind of annoys me I said this in my video I'm not a fan of her but she is well written as far as I'm concerned up to season 8 she's very consistent she will obliterate people she will feed them to a dragon she'll burn them to death will never do it to somebody she considers innocent all of the people in King's Landing have done nothing didn't consider those people innocent any which is ridiculous the rationale is ridiculous to me they're literal children that's the one thing she says she will never hurt children and she never wants to see a child of her feet ever again so she again she threatens to burn cities did you think that those cities didn't have innocent but why is she threatening to do it because it's like without you having to do things that's the point of a threat no not just outside of Karth where she's again you can make the again it's like rationalizing outside of Karth do you not get what a threat is like the point of a threat let me finish outside of Karth you can say oh well she's starving her people are starving she's threatening to like try and get these people to let her in later she's making the threats deteriorating she's not saying them to anyone she's not saying them that she's going to burn their she's like I'm going to burn their cities to the like Tyrion's not he's on her side like again there's an escalation to this like if the idea of threats is that it's a bluff to get things to change like she's not bluffing to Tyrion this is what Gary was saying about how like we can actually all see how we get there in the end but they've skipped so many chapters they've skipped over loads of developing points we've jumped way too fast you know I the idea of using a threat to avoid violence isn't foreshadowing for holy shit she actually did it right but what I'm saying is that when she says that Tyrion is not a threat to avoid violence which conversation are you talking about specifically I'm talking about with Tyrion specifically I'm talking about season six episode nine she shows back up to marine and then he's like what are we going to do whatever and she's like I'm going to return the slavers cities to the dirt something along those lines like burn their fleets and return their cities to the dirt so and then Tyrion's like no here's this thing about your dad I'm going to try a different way and then also if you want to keep going with it this wasn't to avoid violence she was workshopping a plan with Tyrion again with Tyrion in season seven that's not a threat that's a promise well I don't know I would call it a promise if she's saying she is going to do something threats involve if you do something I will do this that's a threat if you're threatening to do something in the middle sure I'm okay with this threats are often virtuous things to do sure I don't know threats are virtuous things to do of course if you don't do this we will invade you you are using the threat to avoid the open conflict right if that's the intent but with Tyrion she's not doing it for that reason she's actually considering it and again in season seven she says like war was one without deceit and mass murder like she is she is buying into that system and that's the thing referencing a lot of pieces of dialogue about potentials while we've been referencing like actual actions and reactions as I've referenced actual actions like when she forces the dude to be engaged to her when she feeds the guy to her it's motivated entirely for greater good all the people what? that's what I'm saying about rationale like we say oh it's for the greater good like for the greater good we want an example of when she's done something maliciously slash insane what could you be more specific has she ever murdered someone who is innocent? answer is no innocent by whose metric she has never done that even in season eight she does not see those people as innocent she sees what she did for the greater good there's a conversation between Daenerys and hisdar in season five right before the sons of the harpy thing show up they show up to the dragon pit and she's talking about how one day she might return his great city to the dirt as well and she's like by your command and she's like yeah these people are cause she's saying like the fighting pit tradition is what I agree with but she's saying like this form of like violence is wrong well they're choosing to do this and again hisdar is a piece of shit but he's saying well they're choosing to do this why are their reasons wrong you're gonna do this to you I'm gonna cite you the episode necessary have you been down there have you seen children little children burned you see she used their innocence as a weapon against me yeah she killed innocent people she murdered innocent people in that episode where she has never done it before again by whose metric whose again in her like rationale like I guess that might be she does kind of say that one of the examples you're using in her conversation with hisdar abhorrent the slave fighting is in marine so I'm supposed to that within a season of time that she just turns which conversation are you having are you talking about when you were talking about her conversation with hisdar it was around during the slave fights during the slave fights she doesn't like all the fighting that they have which has been how they kept peace in marine for years and the gladiators they enjoy it she doesn't like it abhorrent how many seasons did we spend in marine was it 4 5 well we spent season 4 or half of 4 5 2 and a half seasons in marine story up which is basically her learning how to be queen and learning on the job making huge mistakes we're buying into this a lot of it was believable I agree with Mahler she was one of the most consistently written characters even in the bad seasons but then she just makes this turn on a dime because they didn't set it up properly that's all I've ever been saying again the conclusion I can see them getting to that conclusion it required 2 more seasons it required her being in Westeros much longer dealing with more lords there wasn't any of that it felt empty season 8 she had and I know that the writers will say it was supposed to be this way but I didn't buy it she felt like she we killed Varys too early and it just felt like a smaller show because they were rushing towards the end they were just trying to play connect the dots towards the end and none of this stuff sold to a lot of people including myself we can go back and say well she smirked when this person died so see Psycho of course she's going to burn a million people in King's Landing she could have since it all when she could have just taken a straight shot to the castle killed Cersei and been queen and she could have she had Dothrock there they multiplied somehow and she did it you know that's the whole thing not a lot of people bought her just mass executing a bunch of people so on the on this subject one thing you talk about like smirking and it's actually a really important part of the story is that when we see Daenerys we're like oh everything she's doing is for the greater good we're rationalizing that this is actually what drives a person is logic is rational is objective factual when really like a person's like there's all sorts of other drives like drive a person so for example like when she feeds the guy to a dragon going the rationale is that she's sending a message but it was very good in the beginning at doing that and it stopped being good later at doing that you know I think it was still good at doing that like like at the end the rationale is that she is Cersei is like she needs to free future generations from Cersei right that's the rationale what future generations I mean King of Landing is a I'm sure you obliterated 90% of the future generations we see the peer later there is still people there is still people you're right but that's the rationale but is that the reality like is that really like Daenerys really is that really what's driving her like she seems to also have this there's this entire like personal like emotional component to what she's doing as is with anyone like for her a lot of it is about taking back this thing that's supposed to belong to her and her family a lot of it is revenge for the people close to her that have been killed by Cersei and that have been killed in this war and a lot of it is just like again the enjoyment she gets from burning people from destroying her enemies did she enjoy doing that at King's Landing I get the sense that on some level there was catharsis there's a lot of assumption here well we don't we know I'm trying to be like trying not to make too many jumps so I'm saying like what I presume because we don't see her she never says but what I assume is that there's like a catharsis there may I ask why that is your assumption why do I assume that because I think she gets catharsis from killing her enemies in a lot of cases everyone from Mirri Mazdour to the Tarlys and also when Barristan Salmi talks about the Mad King he talks about the feeling of sort of the self-righteous feeling that he got from burning people alive so you would say that Daenerys considers the innocent people by her own words the innocent people of King's Landing to be her enemy that deserve death yes in some respect I think something that a lot of people maybe don't fully accept about the story is that a lot of these characters are not morally or ethically or logically consistent um for example when you look at who Daenerys is working with when she invades Westeros Ilaria Sand is a child murderer yep that's brought up you recommend this to the city and then Tyrion says we don't murder little girls here as in the board meeting with Daenerys at the head of it and she says that they're all going to have to respect Tyrion yes what I'm trying to suggest here is she doesn't take the word of the child murderer but she allies with the child murderer like reinforcements are reinforcements there's a pragmatic reality to the situation sure but like again look at how she abolishes the slavers and how she sort of like or the former slavers like after she she abolishes slavery again the rationale of like oh well she fed that guy to a dragon he used to be a slaver like well Jorah used to sell slaves yeah what happened to him in the story though well he's obviously redeemed himself before she can essentially destroy him for that how has he redeemed himself what's that question really what has Jorah done for Dany no I don't mean by the end I mean like right when she meets him oh we don't know what she thinks of him at that point that specific point but once he's saved her life which is what she's under the impression of in the wine merchant he's pretty much redeemed to position what I'm saying is that like there's this premise that any former slaver is it's okay for Daenerys to execute them because they used to be a slaver potentially it depends on the law of the land and the context of the situation Ned Stark wanted him executed for treason he did Ned is Ned is one of the more ethically consistent characters not totally but he's one of the more ethically consistent characters but with Daenerys like I thought we were talking about rationale though like you were saying like we shouldn't be feeling as though it's justified with Daenerys so even though the characters essentially looked at as the paragon in the show no I'm not saying that it's wrong to execute people for slavery if that's the law of the land with Jorah it's like that was the law well you do remember they're a part of a caravan or calisah sorry that is essentially runs on slavery at that point she can't exactly say that Daenerys herself used to own slaves yeah but she fought she fights against it in the smallest ways possible that she can in season one um I don't agree that it's the smallest the biggest way she can we will ask the guy who has not seen it and you can object the second you think I'm representing the context incorrectly you are a woman who is 100% against slavery but you've been captured you've been captured and given to this king to essentially be impregnated and provide a son for while he essentially rapes and pillages throughout the land and you decide that when several women are captured to essentially be raped and enslaved that you'll take them that's not the whole context remember uh Daenerys starts the campaign she tells Drogo we need to take the iron threat and Drogo says no and then there's an assassination attempt and then Drogo is like I am going to murder everybody and I'm gonna rape the women and I'm gonna tear down their houses and she's like fuck yeah she does agree and then when it happens the difference between threats and actual action what does she do she turns back on it absolutely exactly that's very morally upstanding it's comparatively morally upstanding that's a good thing to do it is a good thing to go back on a bad action it's a good thing to do it's a good story look I agree with all that but you guys are saying it's a good thing to go back on a bad action but there's a bad action I wouldn't agree with it's a good thing to go back on a bad action it wasn't an action in the first place it was only the thought the idea no I think if you if I started like a campaign and they're like hey we're gonna murder a bunch of people I see it and I'm like oh no stop I think anyone who was offended or not offended anyone who was victimized by that campaign has the right to take retribution against me because I started it I set it in motion she's the only person who tries to stop it she is and that's again that's good it's better than not trying to stop it but you cannot say that she's not guilty of getting it started season one is her most naive as well I'm not like I mean it seems like I feel like there's a sense and grows from that then that seems like good it is I think there's a sense that people have is that character is gonna have to be good or bad and there's no like again something that George R. Martin says that he doesn't write like clear cut heroes and villains all the time he likes to write characters that do a great thing on a Monday and then a horrible thing on a Thursday and that's really how the story function is that yes Daenerys saves Mary Mazdour and the other women when she sees how they're being treated but she also got it started and she is in some ways like she should consider that part of what she's done when judging other people it is very easy for people when they say something should be done to imagine in their head the way that it will play out and then upon seeing the reality of what they've done immediately come to regret it and then as is a key component of redemption and apology to take action in order to make right things that you had a hand in making wrong and for clarification these people rape and pillage whether or not she said go to Westeros yeah but they really upped the ante when she said go to Westeros because they that's a big campaign according to Jorah that's not even the case if they go through town to town and if they don't provide them slaves and women and resources then they'll destroy them yes but that specific campaign like Jorah says this is the cost of war this is what we're doing so this specific campaign the destruction of an entire and she's immediately against it yeah again I'm not I'm not saying that what Daenerys does there isn't redemptive I'm saying that she should have that I'm saying that if you're going to have that sort of like acceptance for Daenerys because you empathize with her and you give her the chance to be redeemed you should apply that to other people like people who well this isn't so much empathy especially from my position it's just recognizing moral actions of characters I'm going to start with your character I've like never watched the show pretty much so I'm just assessing these are actions that are taken and I'm in the context that I understand evaluating whether they're moral and well morality again subjective but like I agree that like yeah this is not really an encounter to anything that I've said though but what we're talking or what I'm talking about if we all agree on the morality of it it doesn't matter if it's subjective oh sure yeah we can all agree on the morality but what I'm saying is that Daenerys also should look at the morality of it what she has been and what she has done and how she has changed and allow other people to make those changes but she doesn't always do that so I guess the question here is how does she go from the scenario that's been described to be from that to what happened at King's Landing like what happened to completely flip her around what do you mean what like she's changed for reasons people don't randomly change there's always a reason um a lot of people close to her died she got the sense that she was rejected by the Westerosi society as seen as not the rightful queen not valid there's hardly any work done in that regard Gary what do you think about that in terms of showing the people of King's Landing rejects Daenerys how much work did they do for that not much a few minutes maybe if that we had Varys a lot of that was done through Varys who was backing her and then what was it third or fourth episode oh I don't like her anymore I like Jon they did a lot of work on that in the north not really they had them give her a lot of stares but then they showed that they were actually being won over to a degree when she'd won the war for them we're talking about King's Landing people don't even like Jon they don't even know who he is no more stuff I didn't buy it either a couple of dirty looks and that justifies killing a million people in a city do you at least agree that there's so much work that needs to be done to establish these things instead of just a couple of looks in this particular case not really no there's a sense like in the north first of all I don't think it was just I mean it wasn't just a couple of looks and then just then looks given to there's just like a sense that like Daenerys was unwelcome and then moving on from that the way Cersei turns people against Daenerys we should see some of that in season 7 some of that in season 8 people should really hate Cersei but if there's anything that could make people like just be distracted from their hatred of Cersei it's saying that oh dragon lady with a bunch of Dothraki and a bunch of slave soldiers that look really they're super foreign are going to come in and they're going to slaughter everyone like saying that she did I'm saying that that's going to turn people those mornings it was an utterly ridiculous decision sacrifices every lost piece of dignity that character had which character? Daenerys they were trying to sell that in Winterfell so people were rejecting her in Winterfell Winterfell is completely different from King's Landing people from Winterfell don't generally like people from the south at all and maybe Daenerys doesn't understand that but again that is an assumption we go a lot of this rationalizing an assumption it was not portrayed well within the story and we're talking what six episodes in season 8 that's what we're discussing is these six episodes and Daenerys turn happened in the last episode and a half generally we can say oh she smirked here she smirked there nobody bought it again the closest thing to a general consensus I've seen is Olivia Clark didn't buy it yeah does she know better than the writers well if we're taking actors than like Jamie Lannister bought his show we're not saying she's an authority it's an interesting piece of information isn't it well I mean Jamie Lannister buying his ending is all interesting piece of information I don't buy that he bought it so as for people buying it I would say that a lot of people actually did see Daenerys' turn coming yeah me and Wolfe actually said when we first started watching the season we hoped this ends with Daenerys becoming the villain it would make a lot of sense the way they executed it was horrifically bad I used to feel that way then I sort of changed my mind I didn't want and then sort of at the end like I I didn't buy it and then I went back and I watched things over and I recontextualized it and I didn't buy it go back in time fix that we'll fix that in the final edit there we go Olivia Clark you have to know that they are contractually obligated not to talk about their own show and they still did so again not that they're authorities but I think that says a lot as well I don't know if anyone's really talking smack but that aside because actors they are allowed to feel how they feel we don't necessarily always agree with them whether they like it or they didn't when it comes to Daenerys again we sort of talked about this a little bit earlier I disagree that whether people buy it is just based on rational, objective, evident I think there is this sense that people want to say oh no I was just being rational I looked at all the facts and the facts don't add up to that it's like no most people watch shows with sort of a the rooting for someone they want to believe a certain seems to be relevant to what we've been talking about talking about what certain fans out there think about certain things isn't really what we're talking about well I mean Nerderotic brought up whether people buy it and I think that this is relevant to that whether people buy it to me is a lot more based on what people want to believe than what is objectively being shown do you think that's the case? do I think that's the case? and how many people if so would you say more or less than half? 90% or more absolutely you watch Daenerys again less than that we've all acknowledged that Daenerys has done some messed up things but a lot of people I swear I can show you guys subreddit that do not accept that Daenerys did anything wrong ever like they are 100% maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit they were like so behind everything Daenerys does make every single possible rationalization for every morally gray thing she did Daenerys isn't morally gray I can find someone on reddit who thinks Hayler did nothing wrong I'm saying that like is this are they right? no it's like they're making decisions I think that your attempt to show that they aren't right has been very lacking the way that we that is your opinion of course but I know it's my opinion but it seems to be backed up by everything I've heard like which things this whole discussion that we've been having so Daenerys forcing a guy whose father she killed to marry her is not tyrannical? that's a bit late from killing a billion people after that totally fine completely consistent with the character why? is that a fair statement without context? so John can write the dragon and John can be the one to burn King's life? context is rational right? like John killing a child probably wasn't a good thing but like yes of course I would agree with you that context matters but what you've been telling Rags is she's forcing someone to marry her and it's like why was she doing that? tell him that too why was Joffrey doing that? no tell me why Daenerys had someone marry her because she was trying to establish stability okay why did Joffrey why did Cersei force Sansa to marry Joffrey? I don't know why did she do that to retain power so are these things comparable to Daenerys committing essentially a massive massacre? I think that yes or no will suffice these things alone? no but when you add up the resume add up keep going then add up the resume there's a difference between by the way trying to maintain peace and trying to consolidate power yeah I agree with that a lot of times maintaining peace Daenerys didn't want to marry him she made that clear she did it to try and get things rolling in terms of why did she open the fighting pits? that's a horrible thing to do well because it's going to try and help seal the wounds that are between the two warring classes right now I agree with all of this Daenerys there's always a dual motivation she wants to consolidate peace again all of a dance with dragons is about this her conflict between the Mesa the mother persona where she is the mother of all of these slave children and the mother of dragons persona where she is the conqueror destroyer she's torn between these two impulses kind of a Shakespearean character and so there's always that element of maintaining peace but also consolidating power before there was any slave freeing for anything what did Daenerys want was her conquering not just a means to an end was her conquering a means to an end? yeah which conquering all of it? we can pick and choose I guess did she ever conquer for the sake of conquering or was it to serve as some other goal of hers that was the only way that she felt she could what would you say is her goal? no I'm asking it doesn't matter what the goal is in this context in this question it doesn't matter what her goal is her goal can be anything it's about whether or not her conquering was just a means to carry out that goal it was the only way that she saw to make it happen you know I think it's a bit of both I think there is a part of her that actually enjoys conquest I think it isn't a lot of ways a means to an end but that end is conquest it's like at the end what is it so her conquest is her goal she wants conquest for its own sake her goal is to claim the iron throne so is she just wants to be on the iron throne or she sees being on the iron throne as a way to do something originally it was the iron throne itself then break the wheel came in right and break the wheel what's interesting about it is it's like kind of a vague mantra that has some some details we get some inclinations of what it's about but it really like reflects a lot of like like a lot of historical like ideas that once we conquer this the people will be liberated things will be better once I am in power like it's sort of vague it's the vague sense of like I can make the world a better place things will be better when I am in charge but how much it's about actually making the world a better place and how much it's about asserting herself as a conqueror is really up to the viewer's interpretation like we have to wonder what is really motivating are there any scenes that support it then are there any scenes or anything that support the guest wants to rule for power's own sake what is what would that I think I need more elaboration I would answer nothing explicit in this part of my issue but they missed that in season 8 when John addressed the fact that he's the rightful heir that was their opportunity to explore her character and expose the fact that she wanted to rule regardless of her rightfulness or how suitable she is to rule regardless but they don't well I guess the first thing I would point out is what was she doing for the first two seasons like when Viserys dies and she's like trying to convince her to take the Iron Throne why does she why why does she want the Iron Throne because her family were back stabbed and betrayed and she wants to avenge them take back their seat of power that they created sure but isn't that power for power's sake or is it vengeance are you saying it's vengeance no vengeance is a motivation power is a means to obtain vengeance if you don't have any power you can exercise vengeance she considers it right to be on the throne she considers it right yeah I mean that's what I've been saying I guess she considers initially what she was doing was for survival and none of us disagree with the fact she was supposed to be on the throne right well you're saying it was originally for survival was it before she tries to get Drogo to invade but before there's an assassination attempt so it wasn't for survival yeah season one the first time she talks to Drogo about taking the Iron Throne is right after Viserys this is true of the show and the books it's about you could say vengeance you could say an assertion of self you could say yeah I think those are like two ways to look at it but this is before the survival well maybe this would be cleared up a little bit more for me if you were going to say that we're writing a documentary there's this guy named Adolf he goes from mild mannered painter to genocidal leader of Germany and we were going to tell the story right and it's all about him and his childhood until the very last 10 minutes where it's him becoming the Fuhrer and all that stuff Holocaust things happen then I would be curious to know are there any scenes that have been established previous to that that I can point back at and say alright this is in this case Daenerys clearly doing something that is violent for its own sake that is for power for its own sake where she is acting either irrational from her perspective or anything that she does in its own context that would lend to the idea of these the power and the iron throne and the massacre at King's Landing these aren't the end goals or sorry that these aren't means to an end that these are indeed the end goals of what she wants are there any scenes that I could be directed to I'm sorry I got lost with Hitler and all that I think Daenerys is more powerful than a Hitler and he did destroy us that was a point whenever you bring up Hitler like you know there's a lot of associations I'm sorry if you're incapable of seeing past that but the question I can I'm gonna say the next thing that's okay you're asking are there scenes that would indicate that her goal is the iron throne and not some kind of other means to an end or some kind of other scenes that would make me think that before prior to this Daenerys is clearly trying to have power for its own sake she's not working towards a goal she is not working towards some other well that's an idea that she thinks well that's an idea that she thinks so there is so there are none of those scenes well I mean there is again like I said there's the scene where she tries to get Cal Drogo to invade before she's been attacked before there's been anything what's that about you could say that that's about vengeance and I would accept that as well you could say that's about power I would accept that I think those are both valid rationales for things that she wants at that time but if you're trying to say like is Daenerys not caring about breaking the wheel no like I said before Daenerys is like a Shakespearean tragic hero she's torn between two desires like on the one hand she wants to break the wheel on the other hand she wants to be the one that breaks she wants to be her she wants the Iron Throne now in the books it's more between Iron Throne and the desire to have a home so the show does change it in that regard they make her a little bit more politically minded than like personally do you think it's interesting that your reference comes from season 1 episode 3 I mean I can would you like like more references well I was going to move on to a point to basically say that would you not agree that a lot of her motivation to strictly take the throne because take the throne comes directly from Viserys like she was inspired by Viserys? like it's heard that's what she was born to do and then as the seasons progress she molds into exactly what her motivations are which is to free the innocent people of the world from horrible tyrants who even reestablishes that in season 8 which was so stupid of them to try I do agree but I think like the molding you're saying like again it's a thing where like a lot of people expect like these linear character arcs and it's not really what what this does just go ahead and reference the scenes and stuff instead of talking about what other people expect and things sure which scenes anyone that so like that one you used in season 1 let's go with anything beyond like a season 3 I would say the scene in Ves Dothrak where she goes back or not it's like outside of Ves Dothrak sorry on the Dothrak you see she makes this huge speech or a calisar referencing Cal Drogo's big like rape pillage speech about how she wants to go to Westeros, tear down her enemies and their stone houses I think that's a reference to it I think everything in like the entirety of season 2 I was asking for references to taking the throne for the sake of like a power not to destroy houses to me that is about power right like she's reference her motivation in that scene is exactly the same as it's been for the past few seasons of that point which is she wants to free the innocent people of the world and she's got a tyrant in King's Landing right now called Cersei Lannister well Cersei Lannister is not the tyrant at that point well whatever the Baratheons whoever's in current it's another piece of evidence that Daenerys' motivations aren't really about tyranny is that like she has the same motivations regardless of who's on the throne whether it's Tommen whether it's Cersei, whether it's Robert there is that speech there's also the entirety of season 2 that's before she has any free the slaves motivation at all it's just about conquest it's just about taking what she believes is hers when did you say that was established sorry season 3 season when was the break the wheel stuff established when her interest in protecting innocent people well I don't think it was never existed I don't think she had any impulses to protect innocent people before season 3 right she did no impulse to protect innocent people before season 3 no I'm saying that's not the case she did she saw Mary Mazdor and the women being raped she had empathy for that in season 2 she does feel responsible for her her little caravan of people but I do think season 3 is where the liberation theology starts to develop I'd agree with you if she starts seeing what's happening to people who are enslaved like the unsellied absolutely she's disgusted with the rulers yeah I mean that's absolutely true Daenerys is not always a bad person she's good in some cases she's bad in others I think the world is better off for Daenerys I think that's the question you're supposed to ask yourself at the end of the story you think the world is better off with Daenerys for Daenerys, yeah because all those people are free in slavery's day are we talking post the whole show I'm talking about the world of Westeros yeah all those that's bad but also she freed all of those slaves she freed millions of people of their lives too freed their souls that's interesting the slave cities are actually all bigger than King's Landing I know Volantis is bigger holy shit dude Volantis is bigger being freed and being killed not quite on the same level a living slave is hundreds of thousands of people burned alive but it's okay because she freed hundreds of thousands more and this is like the kind of I'm not saying it's okay I'm saying that if you he just said the world is better off with it yes better off than not I think if we look at it pragmatically I'm saying like let's say I have a room full of string and cards with these rationalizations for Daenerys I'm just imagining that in my head so let's say that every person she burned alive at King's Landing there was a person she freed from slavery would that come out neutral again we don't know the numbers no you don't have to know the numbers for this hypothetical oh right you're saying that it's equal no I'm asking you if you think it's equal I haven't made a judgment I'm confused are you asking I'll just I'll just say it again it's quick I'll say it again it's quick let's say in King's Landing she burns alive 10,000 people let's say before that she freed 10,000 slaves does she come out neutral I don't think I think that's like a weird yes I don't know like that's like a weird like it's a strange scenario it's a strange scenario one that you've already evaluated in my mind she did not kill a million people in King's Landing that's not how I interpret those slaves probably a lot more than a million I think so yeah I do part of this might be the books seeping in and my expectations for the books but no I do think that she again I'm saying it's like a net positive I'm not saying that anything she did in King's Landing was right but also like you know like she also helped we can just change it let's say that she burns 10,000 people alive but she saves 20,000 slaves she converts them from living slaves to living free people I don't think any human being can do math with human lives in that way it's so literal what? is it better to save one innocent person's life or 10 innocent people's lives I would say 10 I thought you couldn't do math again that's not what I'm talking about like come on I'm not gonna say like oh would you kill 5 innocent people to free 20 innocent people like when it's that specific math then it's weird and dehumanizing because we're dealing with two ambiguous populations so for the sake of finding out whether or not Daenerys was ultimately better since we don't really know the actual numbers let's say the numbers are the they're both equal then what happens is the value of a person's life more valuable than a person's freedom I I don't know like that's not something that I think any one human being should decide for other people it's not deciding for other people I'm just asking for your opinion my opinion I don't know depends on the conditions of the slavery didn't you know just now when you said the world was better off because again this is based on my interpretation of the narrative and what I see I think there is a huge long term in King's Landing in Slaver's Bay across multiple cities and then there is an atrocity in King's Landing so it's like again morally gray character bad thing here good thing here overall I think probably she did more good than bad but I don't know I think this is the kind of question for themselves was Daenerys was the world better off for Daenerys was it not personally I think I vote hard no Gary what do you I know I think the only people the only question people were asking themselves after this were where did my 8 years go not to mention that all the carnage that took place after she freed the slaves by her fault but those people didn't stay freed in every case or healthy which people the slaver cities that were taken back while she was gone that resulted well didn't it right well but we presume that by the end the amount of death that took place thanks to both the liberation and the retaking of the slaves by the end they've been liberated the Bay is renamed the Bay of Draught I want to get off this topic I'm sorry I thought it was about Daenerys like she's sure not committing to anyone who's innocent was the main point I was making the only ever does it to an insane degree it's way too off the map for her character and it's why I would attribute the majority of fans in terms of character betrayals were upset I've referenced this before it's undeniable 100% objective evidence that cannot be defeated my dentist didn't like it I mean your dentist didn't like it my mom like whatever that's not a dentist outrank some mom everyone knows that's objective God said practically a doctor how do you know my mom isn't also a dentist because you said my mom you didn't say my dentist mom maybe she's not my dentist it's unethical you wouldn't trust your own mother with your teeth you can't operate on your own children isn't that like a thing no it's like a law they're saying about the law my mom is a legally upstanding citizen if Daenerys came in and killed all the dentists in your town I wouldn't trust most legally upstanding citizens with my teeth that I don't want to see your teeth then what you think I can find a random person on the street and say alright give me give me a get rid of my cavities or replace my tooth and they'll do a good job alright but yeah so like Daenerys I think to me it seems that whether people buy into her action or not is directly proportional to who they thought she was before and who they thought she was before varied a bit but there had sort of been in the last couple years sort of like a a mass appeal accepting that Daenerys is just a good guy Daenerys just does good things I have not spoken to anybody I don't know I'm sure they're out there somewhere I'm sure in any if you take any audience for any show you'll find some percentage of people who think anything about anything but I've in all the stuff that I've seen I've never found people who say that Daenerys is incapable of tyranny and she's incapable of bad stuff they exist I don't know if they're out there somewhere I just think that you would be surprised how because again one of the central questions to this debate is how much are people's opinions based on rational objective proof and how much are they based on feelings how we feel about this character whether we want to believe in this from what do you think they develop those feelings what? from what do you think they develop those feelings natural human psychology you want to root for someone you want to believe in someone why don't people today root for Hitler because he was shitty all the time not all the time not all the time he was nice to his dog the point is that there are things that he does no his dog was innocent no fuck his dog Hitler didn't free slaves here's the point I'm trying to make is that there are reasons why we generally think of people the way that we do the actions and the show the scenes that they're in the things that they do the stuff that they say the reaction to events so even if people have an emotional opinion of this character that's generally informed by something that they see of course like I said there are reasons for pretty much everything they're not necessarily rational but there are reasons for everything the point of the story is to get people to sympathize with and root for Daenerys his tyrannical behaviors until they're turned against the audience so this idea that people rooted for her so that must mean they were right to root for her because people's feelings are always right was there anything that she had done before this that was comparable to what she did at King's Landing in terms of scale or in terms of morality both they go hand in hand no I think I think it's well yes and no I think that scale she's no right because she's never so do you think that if she had let's say that the show had played out in a different way and Daenerys had done this let's say in the last season do you think that people would still be rooting for her now if she had done this a season ago if this is something that she committed you need to be more specific I don't really understand that if Daenerys had committed the massacre at King's Landing last season do you think they would have turned against her or kept rooting for her I think they would have turned against her absolutely alright so people's rooting for someone is very much reflected or sorry influenced by the things that the character does no wouldn't you have disagreeing with her yeah so the things so apparently if she was rooting for her up to this point then she's tearing down evil system alright what evil system was she tearing down with the massacre slavery is an evil system and she was tearing it down where's the slavery in King's Landing I'm not sure this legit question because I don't understand well people have debated this right like there are some people who believe that Daenerys is Daenerys' campaign in Westeros actually like a liberation campaign in which she sees the evil of feudalism and is trying to undermine it or undo it that's not agreed upon by everyone but that's a sentiment I've seen from a lot of people definitely in the books Tyrion likens the state of he sees like slavery is just like slightly worse than feudalism or something like that not necessarily like with the unsullied or whatever but like so let's say in King's Landing so I guess there is a feudalist system there yes Game of Thrones does have feudalism alright so in King's Landing specifically I suppose how does how does the actions that she take against the people cure of that system that she finds tyrannical or oppressive it cements her rule you couldn't know what Daenerys in any other way does that fix it though well she tried to do that a different way in marine can I ask you an honest question right now if episode 5 played out that she flew over directly to the red keep and we had a cheesy shot where she even looks through the balcony right at Cersei in the eye and then sends fire into the room it like cycles through all the room blows up all the top buildings and she flies up and spits fire down until the entirety of the red keep is exploded it's of rock and fire hit some innocent people is screaming and then the next episode plays out exactly the same would you have accepted that as believable yes as would I there you go that establishes power pretty well burning down a dragon well I mean yes but different things can be believable I agree with that statement of course I was watching that I think I should be pretty convinced I should remind you guys I didn't believe it the first time around I like rewatched it reconsidered my perspective and then came to believe so we've established there are other ways that she could have done this that would be more in line with previous things she's done instead of total massacre I don't know about I guess less in line but again the place where I disagreed there is I don't think that if she had never committed massacres before then not committing a massacre here would be in line with previous actions sure but by that logic I'm sorry you broke up could you repeat that sorry by that logic no one would ever do anything new right no no no you can do new things that are not necessarily contradictory to your own nature essentially well first of all again like I said a lot of these characters are hyper second of all it is in her nature because we see every aspect of this play out in some way has Daenerys done crazy things the issue isn't necessarily as contradictory to her we have not established she's done anything crazy we've not established that I've heard rationales for why she's done you don't think the funeral pyre was crazy no we've established that it wasn't crazy I did not establish that she did not know determines the pyre cannot kill her she doesn't determine she is okay in the books there's the guy Arianne Brightflame we don't have to talk about the books as an example I might as well use something that's not even in a song of ice and fire but I'm using this because I know I tend to think about a song of ice and fire so in the books there's the guy Arianne he drinks wildfire because he thinks like it won't kill him then he dies oh yeah they do mention it right it's in the show it's in the books whatever he drinks wild crazy right? not necessarily does he believe that he's immune to it? yeah if he believes he's immune to it that's not a crazy thing to do I would say believing that you're immune to fire is crazy not at all no but she doesn't know until she tries it and then when she confirms it she carries on she confirms that it happened she set up the entire funeral pyre she's like I am immune to fire she's getting no preparation for something to ask you the same question when you presented this like an hour ago if she was burned hideously by the fire do you think she would have continued to walk into the pyre she would have been physically unable to continue to walk into it congratulations you figured it out no but I'm saying that is crazy building a funeral pyre with the intent to walk into it is crazy no it isn't if you believe that you're immune to the fire if you believe you're immune to fire you're crazy no it isn't but she is immune to fire how is it crazy if she literally confirms it to be true but she didn't know she doesn't have to know because she has dreams that is crazy whoa whoa whoa it's more than just dreams she doesn't get burned by the hot water and she doesn't get burned by scalding hot rock she believes you cannot burn the dragon that's again that's just again that's also are you arguing that every religious person is insane then I believe any religious person that does I like and I'm trying to come up with an insane example not going like the road you're heading down here you can't do this what road I'm I'm fine with this like I don't know like if you what's a crazy thing of never mind I don't want to I don't want to insult anyone's religion no go for it man I'm an amour no I really don't I don't know what like I guess I'll just use this as an example anyone who like decides like you know what I think I'm immune to fire I'm gonna like walk into fire and I'm gonna be fine I think that's crazy what has person been immune to being burned previously not from fire but from extremely hot things from extremely hot things yeah sure interesting so is this a world where magic exists it is interesting but again no no Targaryens established no Targaryens have been immune to fire right and in the books Daenerys isn't immune to fire she's never fire cannot burn a dragon Targaryen is a dragon sure but it's like a metaphor there are Targaryens that have burned alive she takes it literally which is crazy taking that shit literally is crazy no accepting it at it's word arguably crazy but there's more to it but there's more to it than that from what I hear again water doesn't burn her hot rocks don't burn her again like she has dragon blood or something but like there's no Targaryen that's ever I don't know dragon blood is like a weird fan so there's no Targaryen that in the history of this story that has ever just walked into fire and not burned right and in the books none of that setup stuff even happens she's just crazy enough she has dreams and the dreams convince her that she won't burn if she goes into the fire this is a character that is established as being on the line is that crazy is that not crazy so to see her do something that's also on the line do you have any other examples of her being crazy and I'm not saying you don't but if you didn't all you have is something really trying to interpret as crazy to justify her insane actions I think that feeding someone to your dragon is crazy you already established exactly why she did that and it worked just the act of feeding someone to the dragon but why did she do that trying to threaten and squash out the actual leader of the Sons of the Hearty is that the only reason why do I have to so as Ragh said earlier what action can a crazy person not do that it's contextual it depends on the context what I'm trying to get across there is that trying to intimidate the Sons of the Hearty is the rationale the real reason she does it is because she's angry about Barith and Sami's death and wants to lash out to someone I want to ask you a question that's a bit more meta for a second we can go back I think we talked a lot about Daenerys you said that a fandom could be identified as toxic potentially when they like conclude poor writing without like further inspection or introspection sorry and they're assuming that the writers are at fault when it may very well be that they're not so by that logic could we say that a fandom is being toxic when they conclude strong writing without further introspection that may be required and they assume the writers have succeeded where they didn't only if that leads to you being rude or negative or like abrasive towards other people so that actually does exist there are fandoms that being negative calling people like you're an idiot you're like fuck you that kind of stuff chasing people out of fan communities like there's a difference between like a lively debate of the facts and like fuck you you're an idiot you don't understand anything blah blah blah but I agree actually that can happen because there are fandoms that are so they stand so hard for their it's a video game it's a movie or whatever they are extremely negative to anyone that they're extremely negative and rude and abrasive to anyone that criticizes it so I agree that like yeah that can happen okay then yeah I again I just think that's fandom and we're broad generalizations aside when it comes to Daenerys Game of Thrones Season 8 which we're talking about here and why I believe it wasn't a well it was a successful season as far as ratings but there's success can mean a lot of things a large portion of the fan base was not happy with this because they didn't buy into that story and while you have gone back and found some things that convince you I'm not going to assume that other people and I've watched each episode multiple times I feel like I know maybe I'm just a big dummy I always consider that too but I don't buy what Daenerys did because I think it's a huge leap to kill there's 500,000 people in King's Landing I don't know how many people she killed but it didn't seem to make sense at all within the context of the story because they didn't take the time needed which they have done before back to my point earlier they spent two and a half seasons in Marine that made sense they needed at least that in her and King's Landing meeting other lords trying to politic a little more failing a little more and you know it does and then we have to have other characters being destroyed really played into her destruction as well like Tyrion being written like a complete idiot in the last three seasons taking away some of his best work in my opinion in the books when he basically you know when he frees himself from being a slave because he's just a pure survivor he plays the game there they could have adapted some of that put it in there and that would have helped Daenerys storyline instead of him just being a moron throughout the whole thing and just didn't sell with me and we can go back and establish there's nothing that establishes her children in the streets of a city mowing people down as Moeller said she did switchbacks she was going back and doing switchbacks and this was all but as I think we've established here is she's always had motivation she's always had she's always felt she's had this divine right and she could have felt like she had the divine right to the Iron Throne and I could have bought it if they would have sold it a little better a lot better and it needed a lot more time and I think we already have people admitting who within the show and more will admit it over time that they rushed it and who admitted that we had a director Supoknik just recently said that it might have been rushed or was it was Supoknik or maybe it was the guy who made the episode here I'll pull up the article right now but and Game of Thrones director admits finale was a bit rushed what's the actual quote there's often like those headlines often like you know sensationalize what they actually said Neil Marshall while directing the key episode the Black Water the Watchers on the Wall he admitted it would have been difficult to question showrunners Benioff and David Weiss when it came down to the few installments it's very difficult to second guess those guys because they are geniuses and they have done such an amazing job he told the Metro UK inevitably I would have taken a different approach to directing on the greatest experience I've had blah blah blah I would have definitely added my strategy and knowledge to that particularly about battles and scenes I agree with a lot of the criticism that it was really rushed this was Neil it's Neil Marshall so that's a director from a previous season you know I agree like I don't love a lot of the what happens in the long night episode until they disagree with Neil Marshall but yeah he wasn't absolutely rushed they needed to spend more than one episode on the Night King but he wasn't involved in the final season so no he wasn't but he was a director for Game of Thrones so does that make season 8 not rushed again do you think season 8 was rushed or not no I think they spent two years on season 8 I would have preferred I don't care how much time they spent on it within the story do you think this story felt rushed I think I would have added an hour to season 8 and two hours to season 7 yeah or not an episode I would have added one episode to season 8 and two episodes to season 7 thought about that a lot I don't think it needed but then again if you talk like how far back I can do it give me season 5 and season 6 I would change a lot but again that's just me I'm just a guy on the internet like I'm not I don't necessarily like what I think would be better might not be feasible in a screenwriting sense that just I'm just saying that's my opinion I would add I think a lot of stuff played into it I think HBO offered them more time and money yeah but HBO had their own reasons for that they wanted to make money that's the sole purpose of doing this show yeah like I'm personally not you know I don't agree with some things people say about extending I do want to ask you guys and assuming this is something you guys and like you know not everyone cares a whole lot about this kind of thing what do you believe that was like the message or what did the ending mean what do you think was trying to mean like what were they going for yeah what was the theme I mean theme you could say it with a word I think like what was the conclusion what was the thesis of the ending with King Bran yeah with King Bran with Daenerys downfall with all of it and again if this isn't a discussion I know some people don't I think it's I think you can draw several different you can run with a lot of different things right but what is it to you what do you draw what do you think they were going Nihilism Nihilism out of it yeah well it was also very anti-war George R. Barton has been pretty open about how anti-war he is it was basically for me for one the message was conveyed poorly in my opinion that's what's making me stutter it's so blurry whatever the message wanted to be in the first place right yeah but you can or maybe you don't have one Modernism, Nihilism war is bad and you know with Daenerys I would assume they were gunning for like look how good people can lose their way with Jon they're like look how the righteous have to make decisions that even they don't want to in order to maintain to their principles with Tyrion they were like look how a smart person can be stupid like there's a lot of stuff around there that you can probably draw I just don't think that a lot of it was executed very well it's your expectations being subverted that was it it lost its message in my opinion probably much earlier around five or six I do think it's interesting that people say Nihilism because George R. Martin is so not Nihilist he's been like really open about that he's a romantic right I just think that it's interesting that George Martin might not think he's a Nihilist but I read books I don't think George R. Martin is a Nihilist at all I think reading a song of ice and fire and like everything I know but it's like very romanticist it's in there too also he's a bit of a maybe an absurdist but mostly I think he's a romanticist I think that's something that's projected pretty well by the ending was a song of ice and fire was that a romantic tale I see it as a tale of war I don't see how there are individual stories of romance in there to your degree are you talking about a more metaphorical romance with life or life with itself or something narratively romanticism like TH White I think it upholds romantic values I still don't catch what you're really saying for example like nature versus society it leans on the side of the idea that society is made of sick and it kind of glorifies nature a bit the idea that children have inherent wisdom it's very it kind of posits that a lot especially with Bran also kind of blanking right now but definitely like most of all the way it's oh yeah individual freedom like authenticity is more existentialist idea but like the idea of individual freedom versus like following tradition the idea that traditions and society and these things are what make people sick not human nature I don't think that's romance what sickens these things some of these things overlap but I do think that when you add it a lot of romance he's very believe it or not for like emotionality instead of and like the soup daddy of the supernatural the ending conveys that actually pretty well how Westeros sort of turns to a supernatural ideal how the maesters and the iron bank are these like really like rationalists civilized institutions actually fail what about that ending would be inspiring I mean if we're talking about specifically like if we're talking about like yeah inspiration individualism a lot of feely stuff very you know heightened importance on subjectivity I mean if that's what we're using for romanticism then it's post modernism well necessarily it could but the whole story I'm sorry like I'm being really brass tax I suppose right now but like I would go as far as saying it's the opposite of inspiring the ending to that show it is downright down trodden like nihilist is what I would actually call it before inspiring for sure the idea that the hundreds of thousands of people going through all these kinds of wars and disputes and King's Landing ended up getting burnt to a crisp Jon Snow got sent back to where he started Sansa just wins Winterfell okay Arya is like this heroic adventurer when she was surely set to become like maybe that that part's inspiring pretty arbitrarily though um well you know inspiring isn't necessarily romanticism but like you know inspiring it's like romanticism is a value if you hated the ending you're not going to be inspired by it it's impossible but no I think the ending is inspiring I love it there are things about the ending that I really love especially with regards to Bran and Tyrion and I guess I'm just uh I was curious about that because like for me one thing that I think you should do when you criticize something is like is to understand it and it's to understand what it was and what it was going for and to me I don't see a lot of people like it didn't have a message D&D are stupid there is no message they don't care about message there's no message there I hate it but I think that there is a message there to understand and I think that if you see what that is you still might not like it but you should try to see what that is if you want to you know you poured I think a lot of people try it they just can't pull it from what's actually in there would you say that whatever message you are seeing there whatever it may be does it prompt any of the execution because of the message alone for me personally sure or for everyone because I can't speak for it well I'd happily believe I happily believe that a message a lesson or theme or an idea that's being drawn from the content you can get a lot that are completely subjective that are based on very minute details that might not even corroborate but well I guess what I'm asking is for you personally this message you've drawn from it it just it trumps any element of it could trump any reference we possibly have I imagine for an inconsistency the word Trump is odd here not because of the president someone pointed out in the chat I can rephrase that if you'd like whatever you've seen as the theme it can't be broken by any element of the scripts being inconsistent because it's such a powerful message it hasn't yet for my for me for my well we're asking can it hypothetically like can media fail to support its own theme yes yes I do think media can fail to support its own theme in this case for me I don't think it did I don't think that people have any idea and not because I don't think people are smart enough to get it I think everyone is I think like most people are smart enough to get it I just think that people don't want to get it and aren't trying because they for one reason or another like there are things that let them down and they don't want to like it I mean I don't know that many people are going to be concerned about potential message or theme when they feel their characters have been betrayed like it's not even going to come into the back of the head I don't know if condemnation is the right word I think that if you want to have like a scholarly academic I know that sounds kind of pretentious but that kind of a debate about a story a story a story a story a story a story about a story or a something like substantial it's good to understand it like you wouldn't like talk about animal farm without knowing that it was trying to be about communism and sort of like the right like Stalinism and all of that I think it's good to it might be a quality of its writing that you could reach similar conclusions about the message even if it's completely removed from communism and the USSR and stuff like that that seems to me like it would it would just be a quality of the book I agree I don't think that Game of Thrones is directly allegorical to anyone of course there's some War of the Roses there's some bubonic plague there he Martin draws from a lot of different historical events but yeah I do think that people should try to figure out the message or try to come up with something I found that like a lot of people that's why people like this show I think they because it was released weekly it was a water cooler show you saw all the sites that were involved with the show get huge numbers YouTube channels you know Preston Jacobs gets huge numbers people wanted to know they wanted to know the lore they were into it they bought into it all I'm saying is the writers did not that well they don't because the writers were consistent the people behind the show creatively I don't care what their intention was they might have tried their best and I don't think it's a very good tactic to come out and say well people didn't try to understand it that sounds a lot like hey the episode was too dark well you didn't adjust your television and it's like well wait a minute I bought in your show I read I read your lore I you know how much work am I supposed to do to watch a TV show when I do all the work then I'm told I don't understand it no I understood it I understood it just didn't work I don't think it is a lot of work I think that it's just work that people are you're having to go back and rationalize I mean you even said I haven't said what I think and then you went back and no the thing is it's hard to get a singular message because I don't think there was supposed to be a brand singular message for Game of Thrones and if there was they lost the plot I think there was to the ending so Brand's Coronation Tyrion gives his whole speech about stories right and a lot of people saw it like that's dumb stories don't like people don't care about stories whatever but what it is with that scene there's a scene in season 3 in which it's one of the better scenes where chaos as a ladder comes from Tyrion and Bari's are debating what is the realm what holds people together what is what is it all about and both Littlefinger and Bari's sort of agree that the Iron Throne is a story like it's an object but it's also a story that carries a certain weight that has certain implications and it defines the realm and it's a story and when you look at what that story is it's a story of conquest of domination of might makes right and this is like a pretty important scene chaos as a ladder comes from it blah blah blah so in this way to me George R R Martin's one ring it's like the central object of power that defines the series it doesn't have any magical power but it does psychologically affect people it's lure the idea that it represents and more than anyone it affects Daenerys and it affects the way she looks at power and the way she looks at choice and the way she looks at making the world a better place and it's her goal I mean she says it so at the end the Iron Throne is destroyed it's melted kind of like the one ring it's in an accident it's like Martin's reverse eukatastrophe and the realm is left without the realm is left without any anything holding it together and so there is this great council and Tyrion decides to redefine the values of his society by interjecting a new story and he uses the story of Bran because it's a story that preaches the exact opposite values it's a non-violent story it's a story about vulnerability and resilience and yeah I understand that I fully believe I don't know this for a fact that that whole speech could have come from George R R Martin because it's called a song of ice and fire a song is a story because it didn't fit it wasn't executed well at all Tyrion how is he even alive I mean this again this is something that's been grounded they explain things but we're not going to explain why we're going to let this prisoner just all of a sudden decide who's king and talk well Tyrion I mean the un-solid John is the big question the question is why is John or I mean I guess with John you could say he's alive because the Northman is not there than Tyrion either of them should be alive though well Tyrion like what did he really do it was the traitor the Daenerys that's not really like freeing Jamie Lannister isn't really a cap capital offense you don't know who knows that he did that what do you mean who knows that he freed that it was Tyrion that freed him Daenerys says that Daenerys says that but Daenerys is dead quite the fact that she put him in jail who knows if she told it's her hand of the king maybe she was like leaving oh shit Tyrion Lannister is in jail and like Tyrion at the end he's sort of just like a pariah but I don't necessarily like for me the big question is like well why did the un-solid leave John there like yeah there are Northmen there and maybe it's like a standoff situation and maybe they decided I could then I said I would add one episode that's the kind of stuff that I wanted the elaboration on is the lead up to this council someone said in chat or mentioned this in chat would you say that the room is good because it successfully conveys the theme of the consequences of betrayal the what the room the room oh the room yeah no all right all right I just don't think I don't think those are comfortable I think that's high mark silly I don't think so it's successfully portraying a theme I think the room is good because it's hilarious like like I don't I just don't think those are comfortable for me like it successfully portrays the theme the characters are all well executed with maybe the exception of Arya and Buck Braun I think Braun is annoying and I don't like Braun I like everything that happens with John I like that he I like that he gets sent back to the wall I think all of that is exactly right story I think it actually to me it does make sense that they would choose Bran everyone says that like oh it doesn't make Bran yes it does Bran is the opposite of Daenerys like they are terrified by Daenerys they're terrified by this tyrannical overly powerful foreign authoritarian here is like Bran Stark he looks harmless as fuck and he represents all of the opposite values of course they're gonna pick Bran also the deck is heavily stacked in Bran's favor like half the people in that council know Bran and either like or agree with Bran as a person which like makes sense that would be George Armand's ending you have this like anti-war narrative and he ends it with like a kid all make sense if they would have I mean because it doesn't make sense within the context of the show all why would you let a Stark being I don't want to go into all of the reasons why that council scene is the entire show I do agree that Sansa becoming queen doesn't nothing makes sense I think the whole north secedes after Bran becomes king that's my real sticking point and I know why they did it I don't agree with it I don't think it works I think it fucks the scene up but I will agree that with that the north leaving and then making a northerner the king does not make yeah like I said I'm just I don't really want to go through every element of the council scene because I'm a little bit worn of debating for this long that's that's that's oh yeah there's been a while it has I a more important question I think that trumps every question we've had here tonight is why do you have Christmas music at the end of the video you know I wanted to try monetizing see if that would be like and I was like I don't what what can I use I was like fuck it I'll use this you tried you added music to try and monetize no I wanted to monetize and I didn't want to use any music that had copyright okay I was like what is there fuck it here we go well enjoy the world well we enjoyed it I didn't see that coming in August as well yeah well I don't really celebrate Christmas so fuck it it's whatever rags Gary is there anything else you'd like to say I guess one last thing yeah when we watched your video there was a quote you said it is fan entitlement that causes literally 100% of misunderstandings being blamed on the writers at no point are most people accepting that they might have been wrong about anything is that something that you you stand are you down with that is that something that you would still say you accept literally 100% is probably too far I think there are some people who do accept I mean literally figuratively I did it's a thing that happens it's okay how you doing the rags I'm fine I'm tired well obviously is there anything else you'd like to talk about or address you know I could go on for another 10 hours I'm very very practiced at talking about too much so but yeah everyone at the end of the day is gonna feel how they feel and maybe five years from now you watch it you hate it even more maybe I hate it more maybe five years from now you watch it it's not so bad end of the day it's like I appreciate you guys having on to talk about it it was fun I think it is an underrated piece of fiction and I think there is a really vocal group that is against it and I think there's a lot of people who like the ending who are probably not as vocal and probably not as visible that a lot of people don't realize well I mean I appreciate you coming on and it was brave and I respect the effort I've got nothing to lose it's fine it's whatever it's YouTube well I hope you haven't felt that we were too hard or anything I think that it was a good discussion about it if anything you guys should have been much harder come on this was compared to get on Reddit free folk see what that is well we had a whole what our intention was we started out there but our plans quickly turned into something more free form but we have this whole list here of questions regarding not even necessarily things that are specific to Game of Thrones but about writing and thematics and execution and fans and all sorts of stuff but it did go into a lot of specific stuff about the show but that is fine things just go where they end up going I mean if you ever feel like another exhaustive this guy bring me back to talk about those things if you're like fuck this guy you're also free to not do that but yeah no I had fun there's characters that Cersei is another one real good character we didn't get to talk about she looked out windows really well and drank wine she executed that this pletimal we could probably talk about I was just going to say I'm trying to I mean that's the point of Cersei's story is to make us feel bad like make us think we want someone to be brought down in like a violent terrible way and then when it happens you feel bad no that's good though she was a terrible person from what I understand she was a very terrible person but then the Sparrows make her walk naked and she's a very misogynistic and creepy and isn't misogynistic cruel yeah the walk of shame is misogynistic would they do it would they do men not have to do the walk of shame no oh they don't that established in the show uh I don't know what established I don't think that's established well then we'll say this we'll say this then sure sure if women only women are made to do it sure but if both men and women have to do it not misogynist so depends on whether or not men have to do it in the show there is another man who is guilty of something and they punish him differently so there's a man who's guilty of like almost having sex with another man so they like they brand him they brand him with a star oh shit that's that's worse it's worse than you think Craig that's that's fucking worse that's not misogynist that's the opposite well I don't know I would much rather walk through the street snake it gives people something to fucking ogle than it be branded man she got off easy that's the opposite of misogyny well it's you have to look at the context of it like Cersei's punishment is very gendered it's not being branded well it's also that he is committing himself to become a sparrow and all of the sparrows actually brand so he commits to become which is his avenue as punishment and reprieve he has to denounce everything he's about his lands his titles and also being gay can't that's way worse than just taking a walk naked yeah but that's because that's how he chose to deal again it's just chose or was coerced a coerced I'm sure that really a choice Cersei is also coerced we also have to bear in mind Cersei doesn't actually suffer her punishment because she blows everyone out so what Cersei's walk of punishment was actually been wrong Cersei the branding is Loris's punishment after his trial Cersei never goes to her trial she but Lancelot also never gets to be free well Lancelot is oh he gets like conscripted for life the idea is that she can leave as long as she does the walk of shame if he never gets to leave he's enslaved there until he's branded but again in the books there's no walk of shame for men the walk of shame actually in the books I know this is the books but it's actually Kevin Kevin Lannister who is the real mastermind behind it he kind of makes the deal with the sparrow he brokers a deal but no Cersei society too it's going to be very patriarchal because that's the historical context of it very true but yeah I think Cersei's story is done really well sorry I'm extending this because I want to talk about it no it's fine and that's the thing that I think a lot of people at first I was like oh that was like a wet fart like Cersei just gets crushed by rubble then I went back and I'm like yeah the point of Cersei's story is that every time she suffers we're supposed to feel bad about it it's like the black mirror episode do you did you feel bad every time she was punished yes the walk of punishment I felt bad when Tywin is forcing her to is trying to force her to marry Loris I felt bad even though she tried to force Sansa to marry Joss I was about to say it wasn't even close to me because she not only did that to Sansa but she also lied through her teeth and forced all the different people to address Cerions essentially execution not exactly a morally abstaining character Chad is begging me to acknowledge that the previous High Septon does do a walk of shame they're begging me to acknowledge that is that a guy yep that is a guy they whip his hands to make sure he cannot cover his manhood good call Chad how does that but yeah no I guess maybe you don't feel well I can definitely agree I would be surprised if there wasn't misogyny in the show in fact I'm almost certain there is because of the setting but that thing in particular not convinced yet well if you make a man and a woman do the same thing it's not the things that happen the way people address her while she's walking is pretty misogyny like the whole charade of it is a pretty pretty misogynistic how so they call her a whore and a harlot and they it's a lot of like is she a prostitute is she a whore or harlot is she sleep brown is she promiscuous he definitely sleeps around that's not so much an insult as it is a description it depends on what degree I guess she sleeps with her cousin she sleeps with her brother yeah and her brother I think I'd probably be in the crowd saying the same thing at that point Yikes would not do that she sleeps with her own family members seems to be rather promiscuous well they've had kings and queens that have slept with their own family members they're still they're the same thing the Targaryens used to do it all not saying it's right but yeah anyway the point is like even though Cersei's a horrible person I sympathize with her when bad things happen to her because that's really the point it's to question retributivism and torture and the public appetite for punishment we shouldn't enjoy people's suffering we deserve it justice should be more restorative and less retributive and that's really the arc of the entire story we open on an act of retributive justice and at the end Bran introduces a more restorative type of justice I'm curious how that would play out it doesn't it does the first scene Ned is executing a guy for being a deserter and he's like that scene we see the white walkers that's the prologue talking the first scene of the story after the part it's huge for the story in fact it informs that second scene doesn't exist without that first one for those white walkers to get off their front porch and get killed by a blade of an assassin who came out of nowhere if we're going to argue semantics the first scene after the prologue then is what I mean is about Ned showing Bran in the books he says Bran one day this will be your responsibility and I'm like he is going to be king or something and then at the end Bran is going to be king but she wasn't who didn't Daenerys say that she was going to sit on the iron throne and be king Ned isn't saying that Bran is going to be king he says that one day Bran is going to be in somewhere and he's going to have to be in charge of justice and I saw that and I'm like well yeah if you take all thousand lines and you can find the ones that vaguely match up that's great it's like in the first couple of pages but you realize that if he hadn't you'd be like well that's just a line oh well they say Harry Potter isn't leaving for Hogwarts I was always very I mean that's a book only line I always thought that line was super important it's like the opening promise of the story George R R Martin himself said that like originally he just started writing that chapter and the whole story expanded out from that so yeah Bran Kings checks out for me and then at the end Bran he doesn't execute anyone he's like going to send people to do things to make the it's like reconcile to no motivation to kill anybody because he I mean he doesn't kill people because he doesn't see that it's not necessary that's what I say yeah I mean it's that's a good thing so I think it's necessary to kill some people some people but not anyone that the Bran doesn't kill yes and be gone says Major Justice dude this chat is wild oh they're fine don't worry about that no I love it Bran failed his training someone said Bran kills people using his wolf yes true oh season three Bran kills Wildlings yes yes no I'm talking about the ending I know Bran throughout the story Wildlings needed to die though he also kills a guy using Hodor in the show he's practically fucked when Hodor realized what he's done oh also lets Daenerys kill oh right that's the elephant in the room when his brother gets screwed over and sent back to the wall because he saw all this coming so that's actually wrong Bran does not have that kind of future what do you mean he's the king though Bran has on several Bran on several occasions says he doesn't know things that are in the future what does he say to Tarion why do you think I'm here why do you think I came here but that's not but on other cases like he's asked like can fire kill the knight king he says I don't know no one's ever tried if he could see the future he would be able to see that Daenerys uses fire in the field no it's not inconsistent to see it's that we see how Bran sees visions and their bits and pieces they're not like a solid he doesn't know he only saw the pieces he wasn't involved in killing people in did you have a saying that he knows all things past present and future he can literally see everything no he knows a lot of things past present and he knows some things future but he sees the future I can make your argument for you he knows as much as the plot requires him to like providing Arya the knife he knew to do that he knew that much is that what you're going for actually yes anything he does in relation to calling the future that was as much as he knew he basically doesn't he calls very little about that I'm sorry I'm just saying we've just described an awful writing tool like that's the laziest shit you can do as a writer not really because Bran doesn't Bran's future side there's selective clairvoyance there's specific reasons why he remembered all of these individual things come on man it's all just tribe to that point no it's if Bran were a different kind of character if Bran were like again you earlier called Bran like not really a character and that's actually kind of true by the end Bran is sort of like a symbol and so he's or like a plot device it's not something Bran is my favorite book here they do like kind of change up how they use Bran anyway we've gone over but yeah I don't know I like Bran at the beginning of the story he falls it's a major bummer and then these other kids in the books these other kids are like hey he's never going to amount to anything if I were like that I would have killed myself and then I'm reading that and I'm like that is the saddest thing I have ever heard I hope this kid becomes the king and he does you hoped it your expectation you emotionally invested in that being the ending I was it allowed me to it's one of the reasons why I'm not as angry at the ending and I'm like you feel the show has done Bran the same justice as the books what was that the show has done Bran the same justice as the books or provided I don't think the show is enough context justification the show never provides anything as much justification as the books because the books are books someone in chat keeps saying I can't be lord of anything Bran did say that because he can't see the future he doesn't know Bran was learning to use his powers he says I need to learn to see better Bran is an omniscient he's trying to figure out everything he sees is because he saw it anything he doesn't see is because he couldn't see it yet again he's not Bran is great in the books book Bran don't even get me started best character so sad I love book Bran I just don't think the showrunners loved him I keep him in every season show us more of the training I don't know what their justification was I know he was going to school or something and they just didn't feel like you needed to see the training I would have loved to have seen it some of his visions would have been great I agree that the showrunners seem like they do not and it's tough because knowing what I know about Bran's story I can see why it's a very it's a very different thing a lot of it is about his age a lot of it is contingent on his age so it's very different to translate a lot of it is really psychedelic and it's very strange D&D originally didn't want to they didn't want to do much magic they didn't want to do flashbacks and visions it's very difficult to translate him so I do see why they decided to make him more of a plot element more of a symbol he's basically the lord of light but in human form do you see why people might not buy that because what was conveyed very well in the books was not in the show and by not showing the probably the most important part of his character Joe and him just becoming a plot device and not a character that might piss some people off that he becomes king even though he was supposed to according to George R. Martin and all the intention in the world if you don't execute it well pointless at the end and that's what a lot of people felt like when they I see why everyone feels everything they not literally but you know what I mean I think people understood but if you weren't a book reader there's not a lot I understand about brand past he got downloaded somebody downloaded a bunch of information and he essentially stopped being brand and another type of character that was just a robot throughout the whole thing and I know that's really simplistic but that's basically what he was a plot device the memory of brand so the brand of the first two seasons is gone or the first three seasons is gone and you sort of have to look at it as like at the end that kid who is not really there anymore is being honored and sort of elevated by the by a society that once said they would never would never have honored or elevated or seen value in this like sad crippled boy but he's not there to enjoy it but like the memory of him is sort of being honored it's like in mythology there's a character brand the blessed who isn't it's like it's in like Welsh mythology or something like that and after a war with the Irish he's cut off his head and he becomes like a talking figure head so like brand brand the broken brand the blessed he becomes the figure head or like rainbow crow it's an old like Native American legend like a crow that goes and ends the supernatural winter by retreating fire and then comes back and it's singed it's not the same as it was but people honor the crow whatever it's a super chill and if they would have conveyed any of that in the show I probably would have bought it but they didn't and they lifted him up with a council of people who were missing from the show for long periods of time Sansa showed little to no connection to him at all her own thing she wanted to be queen and it was I agree I did not love that but you know if I've done anything that anyone listening maybe use and recontextualize any aspect of the show later then I've done my part and if I haven't then you know I tried my best like the great Benioff and Weiss I'm sorry I mean that's one word to describe them you know the powerful yeah is everyone alright with me sort of saying that's where the discussion ends are we good? I'm so alright with it thanks for having me on guys well sure before you go I know this sounds silly but tell the audience about what you do and where they can find you just you know fuck yeah I'm Yezen IRL I have a youtube channel called Yezen IRL I talk about Game of Thrones I haven't made a video in a while but I have one more coming maybe two one about the ending and maybe I'll do something and after that I think I'm probably going to move on to stories maybe things that not everyone is so angry about and also I'm on the Wolfpunch podcast which you can see every week on Lipson and I know there's no link to that I'll send you one lady later yeah yeah I can put it in the archive one just let me know and that is all that is who I am there you go links are in description if you want to check out more from his channel if you want to explore more of his content what I've got left for today is a video from the community that well regards Nidrautic and myself and Wolf I can animate video and then after that we're doing super chats so I'm I assume you'll want go back to whatever you do with life before you jumped onto a podcast all about Game of Thrones of Four Hours oh my god so long alright I'm gonna jump off thanks again for coming on man I really do respect it a lot of people do not want to you know debate in general let alone against three at the same time very courageous bring me ten fun I'm the barest and saw me of this come on you get killed by a bunch of randies in an alley exactly alright it was nice to meet you man Nidrautic yeah that was that how was everyone feeling? I feel great I have noticed chat has been erratic I have never seen chat that fast fucking machine gunning machine gunning commentary out everybody's got someone to say yeah can't I mean he did come on which is more than most do but I have I've been convinced of absolutely nothing in fact quite the opposite but an attempt was made yes but I was gonna say if you guys can join this link Nidrautic you remember you came on to talk about the expanse that a certain member of our cast had something weird going on with his microphone yes you know that we made jokes about him being the mouth of Sauron yes have you have you happened to see have you happened to see any animations recently that may have been made by someone in our community I have not well hopefully you'll find this rather amusing this is by plague creations and I know that I said I do memes all in one stream but the Nidrautic is here so I wanted to see it but we will mean rags pretty much already decided we'll be doing a stream all about memes because they've backed up now so many we're just gonna have to there's so many at this point and we've actually got some bonus things that I want to do I'll tell rags about it after the stream but we'll have a big old chunky stream for me um yeah oh yeah you know no one can know about it anyway you guys ready when rags it says that I should be in uh yeah I'm here with one other person hmm uh well let me just do this is the video playing for you both all right is it for you rags uh it's at zero zero zero all right we'll just let me know if something's not working I will just reload and we'll see if that fixes it I think it might have I see two other people in here with me excellent I think that I think that yes that has done it great all right here we go I'm gonna have to boost that volume up how do they actually say what it is in universe it felt like I jumped in like I jumped a season there's a time gap isn't there like I will you've turned into a wait wait wait wait I put it in the chat I put it in the chat which one's about for sauron it's uh 64 you gotta scroll down a little bit gone for walkies walkies hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha my master sauron the great bids d welcome I know weirdly close hahahaha is there any in this route you afford to treat with me hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hands of this post who would afford one so small couldn't do so much pain hahahaha I got my back to myself now hahahaha that was brilliant hahahaha oh bloody hell that's great actually hahahaha hahahaha and who is this It is more king than a broken elvish bleed He's right, you know Yeah That is brilliant wolf a gorn wolf wolf a dad's air mouth a smiler Mall dad mulled off the long Leave it to her If you know I need to have one of those boxes to go on door you need like a kiosk People could just come say hi The um, I like that the the row honey the row here have Rags is face on their shields then a wolf's crest is on the gondorians There's loads of little details in play creations videos I always want to try and find All of the figurines behind nerd Roddick. Oh, yeah, let's try and find our characters I think they're characters from all of the other animations I'm trying to find it. There we go Yeah Rags Which king the goblin you have to pay money? Yeah, one of the given soldiers, I guess that will be the golfing I'm ready the goblin we've got With the Nazi soldiers from the the tomb of our album He would static stacks we could warrior Blessed pipe, but all to your weekend warrior. Yeah, even he even has himself on his wall. Oh There's hazeem down there Man putting those to use. Yeah, man. Yeah, that is so cool The Orville button right on my microphone You get them and and he's got no flame on there, too. Oh, yeah down there. That's no flame. That's the cocaine powered super villain Yeah, I actually really like as well the the movements on Al's little character like lip-syncing really well I put it in the chat I put it in the chat But he just rolls out also do you like that rags all the way around the ball No, Ryan milk. Yeah, I don't know. It's just really good stuff like creation was really well done. We we love these There's a shit ton of other great content. It's like I said, we're gonna shove them all into a big big stream Um and with that, I suppose I'm going to read out some super chats and yeah, obviously I can't remember how long you said you could stay Gary, but Completely stay all what I definitely should stay for some super chats, but keep reading. I have to go geloja I'll be right back and I know that means but I agree. It's a Orville reference for peeing It's to go bleed the momentum Got a good day in the lock In the main vein there we go be right back This is gonna be awkward I imagine a lot of these have something to say about our guest Just just fucking do it Time for another e-fab gaming. Oh wait, just a normal e-fab. Oh, that's the thing Normal fab you guys there is some law from the recent e-fab gaming You're gonna want to see it if you haven't hatch up on law because there's some funny memes that you may not get We saw references in chat with all of your references in chat. We got they they were they were seen they did not pass us by unknown It's been hacked It's too good. Honestly, it's it's just that we played a game of party pack six and it was it was a right A laugh riot as they say Hopefully you guys would enjoy it. Theo was there Das bullshit was there. There was like maybe two other guys, too There was like tears like eight nine people ten people. Yeah, we got ten at the toward the we had a full game It's probably gonna be possible for us to set that up easily again with that many people that we like know in voice that easily That was so random. It was like, oh You play this It was amusing Cover Pat Taksin's video on rags. Yeah As we've said before it is really really shit So we are in no hurry to cover it because it is that bad. It is it is awful They can wait. We've got loads of e-fabs planned like this one Was delayed by it by an e-fab. I've got another two Joker e-fabs I've already got planned for different addressing parts of the film so many different gas plant like Taksin can wait There will be a time. I'm not gonna say when maybe only Maybe next year. That's the best I could do. I'm sorry. You don't have to wait Honestly, is there any point in responding to tax and the video was utter trash? Well, that's a good follow-up super chat, isn't it? The thing about tax is video that I found really interesting is that If you took everything in the video to be 100% true, it doesn't even remotely convince you of the title So like I don't really think that it's gonna do much of anything like he takes a shot at TROs video on rags, but that video did way more damage than Taksin's probably ever will And that one was dismantled as well, so it's just gonna be a matter of like Wait, we might get around to it at some point not really heavily concerned though Please save this for Shad. Will you give homecoming leeway for being in the Disney fanatical Marvel universe? You want me to he's not even gonna need to reference. Oh Yeah, I guess I mean for us. It's obvious, but I guess for other people I guess I can I can save that and we can watch him be confused by the question I've got so many Shad questions. We need to do a Shad podcast sooner. All right. Oh No choice I Hope you guys take a look at Legend of Galactic Heroes sometime Have no idea what that What is that legend of Galactic? Maybe it's like a video game That's not that weird like when they did cartoon re-imaginings of the OT and stuff, right? That wasn't that The one way like They they redo the scene where they break the layer out and she's like the only person who's competent everyone's an idiot Oh It's good to think of that. Oh, it's an anime according to chat. It's an anime. Yes. It's an M&A So the answer would be no There you go. I've been my retirement also hi rags. Hello Is the secret movie toy story for you and rags both mentioned watching it on the gaming stream I Ridiculous mean rags watch plenty of movies It could be anything Because we watched Toy Story 4 and said it was bad does not mean we recorded it and it's prepped. That's a bit of a That's subjective. Would you say that's foreshadowing? I would say that is foreshadowing Not what you said What I said was completely different Black canary can't be done in live action smallville birds of prey tv Holly Quinn movie arrow had three black canaries and each one was worse than the last I wouldn't know because I don't know anything about uh black canary That's a true statement. Fair enough. I don't think that canary is actually Yeah, she's been on screen a lot and uh, the what they're saying is the more Times they bring her back the farther away. She gets from the actual character Yeah, yeah, and I just picture that uh Uh, birds of prey is not going to be um People are gonna like it from from what I've from what I'm seeing so far, but I you know, I've seen Apparently like the wrong characters Like they haven't even got the right characters for but also the it's clearly focused on Holly Quinn when birds of prey Is supposed to be about a lot of them, right? That's what I've seen is a lot of criticism Supposed to be uh huntress and black canary um And they they trade people in and out but harley quinn was never really part of that in the beginning Uh, so that yeah, they just repurposed this it was supposed to be just a harley movie And they wanted to give her just a posse basically that doesn't look anything like They do in the comics. I I dare any Uh, just casual comic book fan to try to figure out who's who Uh, do do remarkable republican joker Apparently remarkable republican has done a joker review. Um Maybe one day when we don't care. Yeah, I mean, it's it's I don't I mean, we talk a lot of the times about Low-hanging fruit, but he's like he's like a potato Rotting potato they have to dig to get that's kind of that's kind of the bar that he's on if that analogy Hey gary, did you know that um duke is a lesbian? Oh, no I told totally believable these days I'd like to also make you aware that uh, darth vader. He's a ripoff of robocop Really, of course. He is it totally makes sense now I mean, I see that the only thing that I think instructs that is whether or not time is linear once we get past that I think that yes, he is a complete Very true Um, oh, yeah Anyway, hi rags and who said this hello. Oh the person who Said that is a remarkable republican Yes Anyway, uh as the furry expert of the channel, what is your opinion on the zootopia abortion comic? I will survive Well, neurodrotic. Well, what do you think? It became the furry I I fear furries. They're one of the few things in this world. I fear So what what is the question the question is what is your opinion on the zootopia abortion comic? I will survive I will survive. Um, I'm unfamiliar with it. Let me google it. Uh, I will survive Zootopia I know there's some kind and I've only heard because the internet told me and it's true that there's some kind of uh Whatever term you want to use around zootopia Uh, some weird, uh Yes, say weird if you want to No, you're gonna scare gary. Don't do do you ooo for zootopia? Right now chat's gonna be doing it for the rest Dream thanks for chat. Can I get an ooo or zootopia? Oh You know, you don't want to Hello massives. Hello I will I will read I will survive and get back to you on the next efat. All right. Yeah Mo mo mo walk and blushes kaya. Oh back. Oh back. Oh god damn it Hi wags first page is a doozy. Hello Uh, hi molla. Hello going to have to watch most of this tomorrow when I'm supposed to be working Thanks for making my days tolerable Uh I hope this one is tolerable. I don't know Good luck my good friend. Good luck more power to you more of what programs you use to get hd clips of movies and tv shows internet.exe Yeah, I was gonna say the the easy advice I always give people is 9 times out of 10 the clip you're looking for is going to be on youtube So find a youtube downloader and if it's Typically mp4 will be what it downloads the format in because that's what the format for youtube videos are I think And then most if not all video programs except mp4s that is your um I use I use y2mate.com because it does both audio and video In different qualities if you need a high quality one or low quality one or if it doesn't matter um But moller is correct pretty much every scene that you might need probably on youtube somewhere Might have a watermark, but price you pay for three Scan me molla. I dare you see now. That's a deep reference. You guys got to go watch the e-fab gaming It's a very good reference Greetings to all my fellow comrades of the letter n Oh, hello, hello in in rad Hi rags. Hello. Please sing the following. I shall post it for you. It's I don't know what what what you're gonna You don't want to how about you sing it to me and then I will sing it I don't know uh, that that's I mean that's breaking the rules the super chat didn't ask for me to do it I should sing this That's why I did want to read it out. I didn't want to spoil it I was young There you go game of thrones if that is not if that's not good. Let me know I I can do a retake I don't have to use my first draft But if um, you know, let me know I started game of thrones in 1997 22 years investment gone Well, you still have the books Let's don't you you still listen Yeah, if you enjoyed it along the way Then it was worth it Yeah, the ending might have been Not so great There are ways to describe it about the friends that you made along the way. That's the real of an adventure Yeah, we'll go with that that's Uh here or desia ad astra. I'll see you star side At astra's the movie that came out. I don't know what the rest of it. I saw at astra By a neurotic. Did you see at astra? It did see at astra. What did you think of ad astra? At astra I do not understand this conversation because I have not seen astra I I did not like it very much because I liked parts and I didn't like parts. I wouldn't it was I was I'm glad I saw it I Was really good. Oh, I liked it. Yeah, very very believable rounded kind of setting that I liked a lot I like that scene where he was on the big antenna thing in the beginning. Oh, yeah, that was really well done. Yeah uh, but Yeah, didn't uh, it tried to be what apocalypse now in space and Quite a bit Like bright pit I think he did a good job You guys excited for ryan johnson's knives out No, we're actually planning at all doing an efat movies with critical drinker just for that movie Don't know if it'll work like I don't know what's gonna happen, but we'll give it a shot It's possible that we watch it and it's just okay And we don't have much commentary on it. It's possible that it's terrible, but It is possible that it's actually really good So who knows it goes far as saying it's possibly going to be the best thing we ever seen our entire lives, right guys It'll be the best movie of this year It'll be stunning and brave and it will be stunning and brave Be budding and stave budding and stave um The only argument required for why season eight is bad even dentist Yep, even I'm surprised I actually tried to argue against that like nobody argues against the dentist comment. That's pretty much just game over Like if we can't trust our dentists, then who can we trust? Can we be honest? So when they're talking, you know when they're working on your teeth And he wants to have this big debate about game of thrones and you're just answering back What'd you think about that scene? Um Hello all my m words and rags. Can't forget him. Oh, hello Hi Theo also hi rags mohler and gary Hello, hi Theo says hi from chat. I'm sure of it Hey, yes, you know, did you like the bow master of king's landing? I hope you don't see that as toxic It was merely a meme for the meme gods. E-man. No one could see you as toxic. So your memes They are beautiful. They rise above any such toxicity Uh five for rags because he got me into mordhow Five for mohler for inspiring me to start writing a review of the garbage that is borderlands 3 Oh Anyone here played that I have not I have not Have not I I haven't really had a game. What I've heard about it actually is the like it's okay. It's fine It's just the all the other stuff about uh Well, everything behind the scenes is made people despise it like that's that's I've heard that from a few people I I've heard it has the weakest writing of the three So That I've heard that from many people now. So that is just a An observation that I'm making as to what I've been told Hmm Toxic isn't even britney spears best song. It's you drive me crazy Well, you know that kind of that kind of just ends the conversation right there, doesn't it already talk about toxic anymore? If it's not even a best song Hmm I bet you didn't think about that toxic fandom involves not just obsessiveness But becoming a danger to others in some way to those they disagree with here you go gary I mean I mean, I would agree that a a toxic fandom would be a fandom that openly Like you can always have toxic players in any movement no matter what it is That's just people but for a fandom to be toxic Then I would say that you would have to be something along the lines of there Would have to be a a general sentiment for people to go out and do things that are just wrong or immoral Yeah All right, it's to be wrong or immoral or moral just to you know to be threatening Yeah, and they they love to pick those few things out. I know I'm stating the obvious here Sorry, but and and hang their hat on that Every time and when it's just hey, I didn't like the show Well, you know what the one that gets cited all the time is the kelly marie tran thing. They're like toxic fandom did this. It's like Did it And then you have to wonder with all the stuff that's come out since like so whether or not it's provable Whether or not she even did that from her own point of view, but also the reverse where you have mark hamill saying Hey, it would have been great. We've had the three of us reunite, but okay, and then the the toxic Happy positive fandom came for him. They were like, fuck you, man Shut the fuck up. Just like the film It's just fandom. Uh, just recently, uh, I try not to spend too much time on twitter hour a day something like that All right, you're still off twitter, right? I am still off twitter They kick you off or I got kicked off twitter Yeah, I got banned for inciting hatred against minorities or something promoting violence I think is what they said. I promoted violence against minorities or protected groups So go figure that one out and always get such a violent vibe off you. Oh, yeah, I'm not well that out. Yeah Like people think I'm here by my will. I'm not Yeah, just recently I got my head, uh Transposed on some nazis because I don't like a tv show, but that part's not toxic So well, if that's how you find out who the real nazis are it's what television shows they like That's how they were planning on taking over again through stall's analysis videos and we can't The whole theme of watchmen, which I'm playing I'm probably gonna eviscerate tonight, but it could be good It could be but uh, wait, so the tv show for that starting tonight, is it? And uh, as you know, the comic series was based in the 80s and the backdrop of it was nuclear war because that was the Great threat of our time, you know Apocalypse annihilation what the showrunner of watchmen thinks that that is equal to that now Is police brutality and white supremacy? Oh, yeah, all those white supremacists that we see in those Those places that I can't think of but they're out there The constant that they're about to end our entire civilization at any moment. They're they'll get us Damn, I forgot the most important question gary. You excited for episode three of batwoman Uh, I'm I'm waiting with baited breath. I am Is uh, high art in the what will happen with alice. What will happen with uh, Kate kane. Is that her name? Kate kane is the protagonist and her father jacob That's who is the he has a rent a cops. Yes, who is in charge of the rent a cops, but also the cops But maybe not because we don't know because what is world building Fan stuff is the answer just fan stuff. It will be so good I this is my favorite part Looking forward to a way more than I should to be honest with me too I'm so ready We're all kind of excited because If it gives us something like we go on the first two, oh and we're almost that's a pattern right there That means we're getting there for like the whole show at that point You guys aren't super familiar with I mean because you have taste. Uh, you're not super familiar with cw shows Uh, it will go down this road and it just it gets worse as time goes on and uh, once you start seeing It gets worse. Oh no It's going to be so much fun. You never hit the bottom. Do you with with media getting bad? It's always more it keeps going Wait, this is what's going on bottom It finds new ways like in the beginning of the second episode I know I've talked to you about this before but those flames on the van that look like they were just Something you get with after effects for free Uh, some little effect that you put on it. It was yeah, so bad and drawn on like You know the in episode two we uh, the cape when she was on the motorcycle was cgi as well Yes, it was Which as someone highlighted had to be because it's extremely dangerous to ride on a motorcycle It would motorbike with a cape for obvious not for bat woman off of bat woman Bat woman is indestructible Already killed one stuntman. So oh did they oh what did they did? Yeah, they did. Yeah, what? They someone died for that Well Oh, no, that's that's actually the saddest thing I've ever heard This is literally sadder than Auschwitz. Well, I mean You know sad. It's all relative. I suppose it's all subjective Someone died for bat woman Oh, no Just died for bat. What was like, yeah, that's an actual tragedy though. Yeah, that does suck God, you gotta wonder what stunt it was. I wonder what what yeah, what stunt was it? Maybe they fell off one of the Buildings or maybe I'm not mixing up shows. I'm looking up now. I was just I was reddit on one of my live stream stuff Yeah, please tell me they died for like the lord of the rings or something good I remember it. There was that stunner actress who died for the last resident evil film, right? I think that happened Because there's like lawsuits still potential. Oh, no, I got to make stuff. I'm sorry. It was titans my bad It was for I get the bad DC. Oh, oh, thank god. There you go. You've improved rax day narrowing That is that is better. All right Yeah, yes, it is. Auschwitz remains number one. All right Fake news. I'm sorry I finally finished watching the backlog of e-fab and have reached a new level of e-fab enlightenment That rivals that of big idiot's all hail the dawn's toxic brew One dribbling big idiot's. Oh It's pretty tough, but I don't think it's impossible by the rules of our law Not that it can't be done So your subjectivity is right and ours isn't I'm sure that whenever he was referencing subjectivity He was like, we're both right. We're both wrong. It's wonderful Interpretations are valid Nothing matters. Just like at the end of game of thrones Yep, that really is depressing and and I I really do and as I've said I have a limited scope of context for a lot of this stuff I've watched many scenes and clips and stuff, but I never did watch it the whole way through I really am sorry about you know to all the people out there About your show because that must be awful And see because you can't you can't experience it with batwoman because it was already terrible So if they made it well written that would be ruining it I would be disappointed if I would the guys like I I shouldn't I think this is a moral failing on my part that I admit and I try I'll try to work on it But I would be legit disappointed if batwoman turned into a high quality show Yeah, you'd be like no, I'd be like no, this isn't what I signed up for It's supposed to be good It's supposed to be good I think that's a great part of your character that you could admit that. Uh, that's awesome. I feel the same way I crave the moments where they like shoot the van under the war. I want more of that Give me more. I love it. It's so much fun to just Be baffled by any choice that they make in the show and like if I could talk to the writer, I would just be like why Now that we've established that I have a moral failing in some degree I'm gonna go down a city full of men women and children. I don't even make sense. It's foreshadowing Uh, would have thought that king's landing should have been destroyed in season seven with the throne empty And then the survivors head north in eight and get slaughtered by the night king's survivor on the throne But there's honestly so many different ways they could have gone about it Got what we got Season eight wasn't even the worst part. That would be the dawn plot or lack thereof I was so excited to see the sand snakes and what we got was just disgusting. No fan can be blamed for hating them I mean they were bad for sure, but you really think it was the worst thing we got I don't know man. I still think the Bad It's the worst betrayal of a character from the book Because the sand snakes will be all about family Worst thing. No, I agree with you. It's the winterfell Or that's god that Irritates me to this day. Well, I would happily just say season eight But if I had to pick a specific scene moment, whatever, it would just be Daenerys Burning children that for me was just like, yep. That's game of thrones Listen, just because she admitted they were innocent doesn't mean in being that they didn't This is from his perspective Just because she said they were clearly innocent explicitly doesn't mean they didn't deserve to not be burned alive in the street Running in terror will just better off with it. Okay Hippity logic right there. Hippity hoppy. My buddy's rags property. Oh, yeah, boy And the gold metal fan over here boys and the gold medal for mental gymnastics goes to I'm sure they're referring to us three and I apologize. We did we did try but I am limber. Mm-hmm Someone give this man a gold medal for his mental gymnastics defending season eight Those two separate people that did it at the same time. All right. Oh man Gonna see not accomplish two things at once is jamie not allowed to be concerned for his reputation and his safety and the people I thought it was a stretch that he did it to save his own life I really don't think that the show has ever implied that that was his primary motivation in that scene Now didn't he lose his hand to save brian brian I mean you can argue that he didn't knowingly sacrifice the hand the hand was taken from him after all of that was done But it was done as a direct result of him Uh, trying to push for extra benefits as a prisoner So I would I am happy to concede he didn't necessarily lose the hand for brian But he definitely put himself on the line trying to save her He didn't have to and that was why I like the scene so much You can clearly tell that he's like I don't need to save her but I want to I should save her and that's why is like the start of all of the cracks in his personality falling apart Cracks falling apart that kind of makes sense. I'm gonna stick with it. Howdy y'all Hello, mrags. Hmm Hey, gary. Hello Oh Goodbye Jensen Bye. Yeah based on his logic if I got it correctly That jamie didn't change like he fundamentally didn't change. He never cared about anybody so I should have asked him at the time never any common people Yeah, would season one jamie If if he was presented with all the evidence that the white walkers exist would he have gone up there and fought him season one jamie I mean, uh, from my perspective Um, I would probably play with the fact that he would never believe it Uh, but then if it was like proven definitively Um, and he believed fully that the world was doomed if he didn't go and fight I think he probably actually would be broken out of his character for that But that's kind of my point Is that um, he hasn't been in any tough situations that have to breach this personality was essentially laid on him And so once things start happening that test it it starts falling apart. It was such a wonderful story That happens But just You know, I think our friend that it's something i'm completely guilty of and was in the show and I admitted it Fusing the books With the show like I'll remember things as far as motivation on the books that were never presented in the show And that's why you ruined the end of season four for because when you presented it that way i'm like wait Wait a minute. God damn it Yeah, and I remember reading about it and they were like we couldn't fit That element of terrarium's backstory in and we couldn't fit stone hot in and I was just like Okay You should just say so. Yes. That's just how that worked All the time and all the money How was that later? The thing um You seem like a fine person I suppose but damn your arguments are rotted go watch the show again do some homework All right, that's from salad king. I think he was very he was nice, but Those were not good arguments No, no, not very good. I think we got truth at the end when he said I I liked bran I'm like, okay. All right Uh, love your rags Hello, and also. Thank you. Host me off a roof and call me daddy Hey Execution was terrible just because people don't unanimously agree doesn't mean it wasn't uh It was good executional poor interpretation by audience Um, it's not the first time but he did do a lot of appealing to well a lot of people liked it Um, yeah, okay. Yeah, it's not what we're talking about We had that with um Major lee Yeah, because major lee was like you guys are aware that people like tlj, right? Who are like, yeah Yeah Have any of you played binding of isek any thoughts I have I really liked it I've only played it very briefly. Maybe one day. I'll get more into it I heard they're doing another dlc soon. So I might get a bit of a really good into it Maybe I'll visit it the game. I've been going through now Has been because I because very sadly as you know, ma'am all my video footage was corrupted and I have to go get it back Essentially, yeah, I'm playing gears five and it's actually pretty good So there'll be a review review on that for next week on exclusively games is is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah Um, a super chat from a few weeks back said rags is denis reynolds, but I'm pretty sure he's d I don't I don't understand what that is a reference to either do I? Hmm denis reynolds Dennis reynolds. Yeah, I'm assuming I'm gonna guess tv show But I have no idea. Maybe I am not sure See if he was a better sarah connor than danny agreed I only saw a couple of episodes of sarah connor chronicles And I know just from that because holy shit I like amelia clark, but I don't know what they were doing with her in uh in terminate genesis Don't you mean olivia clark? Of course olivia clark It was strange that I said that and I don't think anyone in the chat Pointed it out. Oh, I forget you kiddo me. Those people did Well, no, no, no, no, I mean in our in our conversation. Oh, yeah, not in the chat and I thought it was weird and then I was like, wait a second Yeah, I think it was it. Yeah, you're right Okay, sorry, sorry. We're distracted. Also. It's a it's an always sunny in philadelphia reference about Oh, I see Uh, this guy defends season eight god genesis 314 Well, I'll do it I'll do it genesis Three Sometimes when you hear somebody mispronounce something if it's not that important and we get the gist of it This is for me. Anyway, I just let it roll. I don't I'm not trying. I don't want to Especially when he's in the mid sentence I don't know if it's like really confusing or funny genesis 315 and I will put m the t but 314 oh Let me let me go 14 Okay, it is Let's see I got okay and the lord god said to the serpent Because you have done this you are cursed above all cattle and above every beast of the field On your belly shall you go and dust shall you eat all the days of your life? Wow, but defending came with thrones, huh? Oh god Uh, I don't know man to be fair the serpent To be fair that not a good comparison because the serpent in the bible story was the one telling the truth so Dun dun dun Look what he got for it. God's a dick Game of thrones a show I never really watched but leaned way learned way too much due to its Crash landing of an ending I think you're not alone on that one. A lot of people have learned about game of thrones. Thanks to how upset all of the fans are I am one of those people Moller dragged me into that It gets creepy watch this It's terrible This guy most fans think they understand the characters, but they don't also this guy thinks he understands the character But he doesn't well that was why I asked the question. I was like He's accusing people of being toxic But you know go against the writers and they're right. So it's like so by that logic then someone could do the exact same thing in reverse and be toxic If the show affirms their interpretations until the penultimate episodes, where does the heel turn Where it does a heel turn and affirms the other isn't that a writing problem? Um I guess that's addressing I mean it I suppose is that question about the execution about people changing or characters developing in certain ways It affirms their interpretation until the penultimate episodes Wouldn't it be a writing problem if it does a heel turn problem is the I guess in that scenario it would be for that person because you use the word interpretation and then we have to decide Valid the interpretation is or how referential Very complicated question I would go as far as saying if the interpretation is completely grounded Like every reference you have is just like how we were doing it with Daenerys basically There's like yeah, there's definitely a problem here If the fans are wrong then the writers were bad for not conveying what they meant to the fans through the story If you have That significant apportion of fans upset then something's happened and you have to figure out what it was Yeah, whether or not I mean if we can get you on the boat Of saying something is amiss because so many people didn't like it And they can pull many many many references as to why Then if anything even if we're being as charitable as we possibly can be people are clearly confused by what was presented and That's not great if you're trying to convey these concepts A large amount of people to a general populace. Yes, totally agree There I'm sure some movie out there exists. That was way too smart for anybody and we just didn't figure it out But This isn't the case here. It well in my opinion There's failed I don't think it's toxic to say writers failed or they did a bad job or they were lazy with this script At all. I mean this is why they they make gobs of money Uh all's we heard was how hard they worked on this and I'm with rags. I don't care I I just don't care. You worked hard on something that wasn't good. Sorry and you got your paycheck though When moller and I we we got together and we had a bunch of questions most of which went unasked which is fine we're just preparation um We had one of our questions was essentially is like Would we give the same credits and the same excuse for other difficult jobs that don't that people don't do well I was like would would you say that about the presidency? Would you say that about engineers or even something as simple as like chefs who do cooking is like well Yeah, tasted shit, but man that was a hard dish that they tried to prepare. Yeah And like to flip it so it's like it it's toxic to say they did a bad job It's like don't do that. It's like so saying they did a good job isn't toxic meaning toxic is defined by what being critical And it's like no it's being critical while being an asshole about it or being like abusive harassing and stuff And it's like okay, so like there's like I can I can get that But what isn't harassing toxic at this point? I feel like it's one of those things that's just so overused everyone's a sexist and racist So like when I hear those words the same thing. I just don't really they don't have any weight to them Uh flashbacks of the not so great debate also hi rags Hello, and um I mean, I think he did he did a better job because he seemed he was certainly more knowledgeable but I think that his ability to under Just rationalize was poor I don't think he was being disingenuous though. I think we see the evap fandom Rank the debates from best to worst without defining what best means just seeing what they do. Well I mean it if Chat would like to I would be curious if chat thinks that this debate was better by whatever metric you personally choose was this debate better Than um the one with major lee. I think it was just say uh chat type one If this debate was better than uh the major lee debate Then don't type anything if you think the reverse. Yes. No, that's not a very good way to do it Type one two if you think the reverse One for this debate two for major lee One for this debate and two for major lee Or some guy there you go 10 a lot of ones a lot of eyes and I I'm not surprised I I do think this um I do think this debate was better. He certainly seemed more knowledgeable about a lot of material He certainly wasn't trying to Meme it up or be disingenuous um He wasn't saying things just for the hell of him. I I definitely believe That he believed everything he said Yeah, and I think that he thought everything he said was rational Nothing it was but I I could certainly I certainly believe he came with total confidence and in good faith Yeah I agree with that. I don't think he was a dick. Oh, no, he wasn't a dick. No, and I just I think he was wrong Oh, so this next one says this guy argument Thitty I'm Mathquirmer a challenge over far they I think I split that up badly I I think I think that you read lists. Um And have inadequately I think so too. You you suck at reading lists speak. It's called lists speak branch all over If Faith there you go Oh, he said I'm gonna squirt my ranch all over his face. I got it. It was like a coded message Squirt my ranch. Oh, hey, and raw has arrived. Oh my god. I was just about to go to bed So I could wake up in five hours and go wash joker again I marathoned a ton of Nolan films last night and realized how fucking How fucked interstellar and the dark knight rises are Hey gary, what do you think of a distiller? Uh, I I didn't like it very much and talk night rises I didn't like it very much. Uh, the uh, so so interstellar was I don't It was so toxic. No, I just I don't know. I did I like Nolan for the most part But uh dark knight rises batman quitting over a girlfriend dying Is the most ridiculous thing then the super knee brace and all that. Yeah, there's tons of stuff It's tons of stuff right It's called the bat brace The bat brace. Yes the bat brace and uh, batman who put on the wall next to his bat sides. Oh my god And his bat axe Yeah, his three bat axes for his three hands Not only are they bat cleavers. They're connected by a wire. Do you see that shit? As if they didn't see they were connected by a wire. I'm almost sick of it Like I cannot wait for them to implement those things. Please tell me you use them, but they're not just there for show. Please use them I know I like how batman who is Batman's very famous for not killing people Right, batman doesn't kill people which explains the triple bat axes the two bat sides the bat shot Crossbow Is like, yeah, sure you could use non-lethal ammunition for it, but still I was like, man It's really good at that aim with that crossbow. Oh, yeah, just never kills anybody. It's just bat kneecap people Unironically, it's like, oh my god, if you need help filling those things go to Joel Schumacher. He had the better ideas Remember the bat Batwoman sir Yeah, I know remember the bat belt buckle that was like a heater that could melt ice. Do you remember that? Yes We need to watch that that shit's great. I love that move. I actually I love that movie though. It's great I've told me before Do you have a subjective like almost 10 out of 10 that you hit and think is objectively like poor? I'm like bad. I'm robbing bad. I'm fucking robbing so hilariously bad. I love it What At the end of game of thrones the dialogue was not well executed pacing was poor There was no build up to the event so it seemed empty and out of nowhere Agreed empty because there was like no dialogue in the last episode. Oh god. No, they they do a lot of walking walking around Mahler has an excellent supercut of that Yeah It's interesting how they could show all of that walking in the previous episode But they couldn't explain how aya gets behind the night king Is like that bit of traversal might have been cool to know instead. They've really got their priorities straight, haven't they? It is very important said that wasn't important. We didn't need to know. I remember that. Yeah, you know about that rags No, I don't Yeah, director of the episode said it wasn't important. He was not gonna think about it Oh, um, well, he was fucking wrong That was uh, that was a racist of you to say such a thing how horrible how toxic oh why he's he's he white I don't even know but I just assume everything you say you have a lot of hidden bigotry. I've noticed Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah between you remember where I Well a moment ago when we had our debate the fact that a man and a woman have to do the same thing I wasn't ready to call that misogyny So I guess I guess that's because I'm a sexist. You see it came out a little bit I gotta watch it. I appreciate chat as well. They've they've they've helped out with a couple of fun facts that Yeah, very great letter stray Excellent job today chat despite Being a little angry at our guest I don't necessarily blame you Uh, Paula are you guys gonna be watching the new wokeman series alongside batwoman? Oh, so watchman I guess for a watchman. Is it woke? I guess the assumption is that it will be I haven't seen the trailers Yeah, that's the assumption. Uh, that's the assumption. I have uh, based on what was trailers one of those trailers trailers and and what more what damon lindel off the guy who uh Co ran lost is in charge of this. Um, I don't know how you feel about lost or not, but uh, yeah, he's He's the one who made the statement about the the you know, the white supremacy and and police brutality being the troubles of our time Equal to the threat of nuclear war No, I'm gonna I'm gonna say for the record. I think the I think the biggest problem of our age is that We accidentally create a a super virus that's immune to antibiotics And it ends up killing a shit ton of people. I think that's the problem of our age That old batwoman one of those two that or police brutality Old batwoman Or batwoman probably, you know, it's actually bat batwoman's kind of like a super virus, right? Yeah Damon lindel off. He's in this company of writers where you just have no idea how this happened It's like, how did you write all this horrible stuff and keep getting weak and it's like, well, it makes money. It's like You know, I like good things that make money. Yeah, it does make money. That's correct. There you go That's cool writers where they don't feel like they need to explain things. Oh, yeah, well those emotional moments You gotta get them emotional moments like spalking doing nuts. They're on back to back tonight anti someone's saying antibiotics So, um, now I've always heard it called antibiotics. I know that when I made characters in Mass Effect I was already I was I was ready to be an anti But if somebody wants me to I don't know if that's right or not. Maybe chat can help me out. Is it anti biotics or anti biotics? So Antibiotics don't work on but always called it antibiotics, but anti viral I thought antibiotics all viruses are immunity. You know what I fucking mean nerd You know what I fucking mean uh Yeah, no, I don't we don't really intend to watch the watchman series, but I'll watch gary's coverage of every day I'll see what it's all about from your your lens gary. You will corrupt me into thinking is something that it's not proud of yourself I will I'm very proud of myself. I feel honored Can't wait to corrupt baller I am I'm not no chat. No chat. I'm not triggered. I'm just being silly. I'm glad that I learned something I had no idea that viruses are immune to antibiotics I was it's using that as a catch-all term for Cures and things from raw. He wasn't gonna row to pentas. He was gonna get an uber I love the idea that he Questioned that he was like, of course. He wasn't gonna row to pentas. Like what else was he gonna do? He only had the dinky robo. What was it? What was jay b gonna do? You said dinky. It was it was dinky. You gotta look and just dinky Okay, no, what when you were this may this might sound like a strange question But when you were a young man when you're a little little little man What what did like when it like your parents or whatever what what was your word for the penis when you were really really small And you had to come up with like a kid's name. It was winky for me, too That's the kid I was just I was just curious. It's it's something that it's it's a cultural Uh consistency that we have between between the pond on either side. Excellent. Here you go So there you go Lee I had the dumbest name for it. That was because I got it for my mom though So I I mean, I don't want to blame my mom, but I mean peer I called buying a peer forever when I was a little kid I was like four Well, you do urinate because of peer pressure Yeah No, they can be they can be objects on a peer that can be lodged and told and so yeah, I kind of see something there That's all right. That's all right. It's nice. I will say that I don't normally hear peers described as tall Well, you haven't been like maybe it's really high up like it's why your belly button is you have a new Agree, it's not necessarily about the The girth if you will the width the the aroma. Yes, the Wow What please everyone what wash your penis? Okay. Wash your winky, please. Yes, I am where you're getting ladies Ladies wash your front, but guys wash your winkies Rags on the case even though I don't know that very terrific about antibiotics Also, okay, wrongly just showed up, but in the super chat he says, okay, never mind. Don't care about sleeping anymore. I'm angry This discussion is making my my great worse sad face. Oh, no If you have to accomplish If you have to explain your show to your viewers after the episode you have failed as storytellers Um, I think it's pretty funny that the only episode they don't explain Is maybe the one that requires the most explaining episode six. Like I'm sorry. I have questions about everything that happens Well, we're out All right, so something's mortals good. I do think it's fucking good fight me I'm old. How? Yeah, I play that shit all the fucking time. I love mortals. I will defend mortals Oh My interpretation was right yours was invalid The thing about interpretation discussions I want to try and veer away from them because naturally they imply a sense of like you're drawing things out of it That are for you and you alone or something Well, I even I was I was asking could could you talk could you talk to me about like a scene or anything? Can you point to something that I could go like that's that's what I said Because I don't know for a certain I have a limited understanding of these characters in their context So could you point someone like me to a scene or something that would support your position? Don't think I got an answer But the question was raised So whatever was it's all good in the hood Just so I don't I'm all or but to support his argument. What scene would you pick out? It's there's anything close Oh, Daenerys going insane for Daenerys going insane Maybe the tarleys may I mean I see I think that's completely just still a huge lip. Yeah, I I did too I I I saw all of her actions. I could see where he saw there's personal motivation in there too It's called layers, you know, it's called complexity the character But even personal motivation in craziness. They don't they're not the same You could be totally he had interesting ideas about craziness Yeah, like do you do you define craziness as just being Or doing something that's irrational and if so, what if you can rationalize something to yourself? The whole fire thing like if you believe it's true and you believe that you could justify what you think And then you go through with it after you confirm it. I guess it's not crazy That's the interesting part isn't it because if someone was to do everything that she did up to that point And then burn to death we'd be like, well, I guess they were crazy Yeah, if the fire was super hot and started to burn her and she kept on going I would I would have probably been on his side to a much bigger degree Yeah And you know He's like certain of it And I I'm assuming it's because of the fact that of those previous burns because even in that scene Jor is like I'm not gonna sit here and watch you burn and she's like you don't understand. I'm not gonna burn like the fuck She's from her perspective. It makes as much sense As stabbing somebody and they bleed. It's just That's true He wasn't convinced that she was convinced that she wasn't gonna burn, but he was convinced she would go crazy at the end We were sort of bobbing between Her being crazy and her wanting to kill them because of fear. I go over this in my video I was like a lot of people aren't typically sticking to one narrative. If you know what I mean Um, and I I know you can be like, well, it was all of them at once It's like, I don't know crazy is hard to coexist with other motivations because when you have crazy it pretty much just means posture They're just doing shit But uh, yeah the discussion around Daenerys is frustrating And I mean with craziness is the same excuse that can be used to justify anything in the same way that a moment of weakness Could be used to justify anything. It's like, oh, they just had a temporary failure character I want to highlight by the way that he was running with the whole like She's never killed anybody that she considers innocent. He was going with that for a while before I pulled the quote Like it it was clearly a part of his argument that was significant. Yep. Oh, yeah The only argument he has when counted is well, I didn't interpret it that way He can't approach it objectively because it is it was objectively bad He uh, was also like even confused on that as well Like he would simultaneously be like it's all subjective I'll also be in like, uh, there are objective elements for sure, but it was really unclear what the line was Um Like definitive things actually taking place, but then No, man, it's like Every single scene you have to define whether or not there's too much to interpret and therefore it can't be said objectively Oh, and you know, I would have been that person in season five making excuses for the show Rationalizing the show, which is what I believe he was doing but uh, because I liked it. I was emotionally invested in it Uh, what our friend doomcock calls hypnosis hypnosis is a really good word for it Yeah, I think we all fell under the spell when the force awakens came out Certainly a lot of us. I mean, I was certainly I was down with um, I was down with what I saw My eyes had those really black and white strips That was completely hypnosis hypnosis. That's that's the word right. All right. You had you had smiler eyes glorifying then I got broken out of it save Uh, what a worthless discussion. Please move on. Well, we did eventually Here we are Jamie didn't know brian was at winterfell and if his motivations weren't heroic then he wouldn't be on the front of the north But as far back as possible Did Jamie know brian was there or not? Last time they spoke I think he knew that brian was heading back to winterfell was he didn't know he knew yeah He didn't know that she was there 100 guaranteed absolute truth, but i'm pretty sure that he knew And and because I don't I don't know myself But if his motivation for going to winterfell was supposedly to save brian specifically or that he had a big emotional investment in her Then wouldn't that make it just doubly weirder that he would ditch her so quickly for cersei again Absolutely. Yeah, I think so I mean I don't I just don't agree with the interpretation. I think he did it for the living He makes that very clear even in season eight He said you're right. I mean, that's what he so we're supposed to just I mean sometimes There's the unreliable narrator, but at this time things got so simplified at the end I think everything was at face value And that's one of the major differences from the show from early on because you had that unreliable narrator So you didn't know when people were telling the truth and uh, yeah, that that's the thing is like So many people did understand game of thrones. I think one of the big things was how many people survived I think people expected more people to die if they were expecting anything And and jamie knew because he would know that brain was She was sansa sworn sword So she and she is loyal to a fault And uh, she would never leave her side once she did that and that EFAP 58 gallons of rationalizations game of thrones season Yes The ending being crap is just what you feel mohler. It couldn't possibly be because it was straight up poorly written obviously I know You understand it mohler You just didn't understand Well, I say super easily super easy barely and inconvenience in your epic voice Craigs what's my epic voice? I'm actually not certain what they're referring to maybe it's the hello ladies and gentlemen voice Hello there ladies and gentlemen voice super easy barely and inconvenience Yeah, maybe maybe that's what they were going for you don't pretty good Hi, my what? Oh, hi. My wife always ignores my youtubeing sargon arch rags are now mohler Except these super chats. So a special high rags just for nicole, please Oh, hello And hello nicole. Yeah, there you go I was just trying to you know make sure I understood. I didn't want to I didn't want to pre hello nicole um Biggest letdown was the knight king all that build up and he really He was almost no real damage no real payoff every noble family did more damage to the kingdom ned stock did more And he got killed at the beginning I mean, I don't think anybody's gonna disagree the knight king was a flat tire of a character just like wobbled in and just fell over like all right When mohler showed me that the first scene in the entire series Was oh and by the way if there's no scene that came before it. It's the first scene just to clarify Yeah, people wouldn't chat would be like mohler. It's the prologue. It's like yes the first scene the first scene. Yes um, but I thought it was really really weird that that was the first scene of the whole series And that's how it ended. I'm like oh, all right I mean that's that I I was tricked obviously because that's what I was really in it for hugely outside of the characters was How are they gonna resolve this impeding doom or impending doom? impending Impeding doom would be like the doom was getting in the way This doom is in this doom is impeding particularly is getting in the way This is fucking troublesome doom Um, yeah, and when the episode three happened, I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no Uh, I just finished rewatching the 1987 predator movie now talk about something that has held up over time Now I get to enjoy some e-fap. So what are we talking about? Oh Yeah, yeah, um, yeah predator 1987 is fucking great That's a film that'll stand the test of time for a few thousand years. Hopefully You know one of the movies we watched recently was the fly and it was very good Yeah, that's another movie that have you seen that gary? Yeah, so god, yeah Those special effects though man those were impressive I thought I could reach out and touch them could because because it could So, uh, I I think this is one you can choose to interpret it simply says roof time you can choose to interpret anything Mahler, didn't you hear the man? It's awesome check. Can you can you interpret the word anything? The word anything? Well, you have to interpret it. That's what words are I'm learning something every day. Yay. Uh kick yezzan irl I'll just kick someone like we kick jay that Stop lisping stop lisping stop lisping stop lisping. I was from raw. I think he doesn't like lisping I'm getting that feeling Good luck interrupting melb shlubly with my carrot down you throat you gay whore jeez There was that weird moment where like he interrupted me and just kept talking for like fucking two minutes. Yeah, that was that was odd Extremely rude. Yes Um, the issue that isn't that we disagree with jamie as a character It's that his final decision of motivations contradict his previously established ones greed Poland is subjective Have we have we got science on this? Is this true? Poland is subjective Yeah Define poland I mean you mean poland is it? I mean, obviously there's a country called poland and you can independently verify that there's a place And people there and road signs and other people You recognize it as a country It's a very established government Yeah, you would have to you'd have to consider nation-state super duper conceptually to even begin to try and say that Countries aren't objective Oh, yeah kills little finger little finger. I was clearly hacked No, no Also, hi wags Hello And it ends with I'm a woman A warm I really hope they bring that into the show that song. It was so good They didn't have that also They have not had that one thing Um, I can't let a man take credit for women's work. Oh, they haven't had that yet. They haven't had that They're hoping that hasn't been cut. It was such a good line. It was such a good line still time Yeah, that's true. I was gonna say there was massive reshoots on it She was supposed to be at san diego comic con and she didn't show up because of the reshoots And the fact that there was reshoots on that show and those we're getting the best of what they got is pretty After the reshoots I want to see the original. Oh my god What didn't live up to cw standards you were reporting all the reshoots for a Episode nine, right? And it's just like It almost seems like of course. It's like, yeah, of course. It's a disaster What if you just have a really good script and you double triple quintuple check it And then you shoot that that's stupid. Okay. All right. Well I'm gonna write the scripts with emojis. It'll be great Hello rags. Hello. My door is open for you because that is how I like to poop rags wags rags ragnarok How is infinite retro? Where is fritanga? Oh, I I assume they're both doing just swimmingly Uh, your arguments are subject while making subject arguments Okay All right. Well, there you go. There you have it. Some things are objective like a fact billboard bill gideus bingelman actual quote from yens Uh Brass save us. I have a roof located at 45 meters height. I don't know Uh, this is actually from brabola. I was supposed to be asleep collecting my energy for yet another joke screening But the brood demands blood. So I'm up on the rooftop. Just get him here at zero hp so I can deliver the fatality It's this meme Wouldn't it be wouldn't it be one hp zero hp is dead, right? Well in more combat zero dnd rules, right? Zero in more combat makes them go into You know, uh, fatality ready I see I see Um, the only reason ned went to king's landing in the first place is because john aram was murdered by little finger And lycea and therefore it was little finger fault. Yeah, like I said, it's though that incident plus the attempting the knife thingy in his sleep, which I find I've been thinking about it now. It's like the show never actually answers that that was Joffrey and the joffrey had given the blades to the assassin, right? That's how it goes in the book Was he just directed at gary? I guess yes. Yes. It uh, well Never are we supposed to believe that it was little finger then in the show. Do you reckon that's what they're going for? That's must yeah Again, this is one of those things where I get the book in the show mixed up But they never explained or did they did they explain that joffrey? I don't think they ever mentioned it. That's why I was kind of like I knew I I knew I was in the book go back and check Um, yeah, they would have to say that it was little finger and not explaining that joffrey Not you know because the knife came from Robert Baratheon's Collection because it was rare because it was a valerian steal Yeah, I guess at that point you would have to conclude that it all comes down to little finger and lycer iron Which again takes away from the whole fact of it being kind of a destiny thing and you know ending up in aria's That's that's where the knife the cat's paw ends up in the book. I think she'll end up with it at some point Uh, but that's also shows that without you know proper lead up and It just doesn't work. So they were going to george's ends without using their own means to that end And uh, you know so many narrative things were were done Like they stopped they stopped doing things the way they used to okay. They used to you know go to george They would have the source material then they had to start making up their own stuff. Yeah, that's hard But regs made a great point. These are professionals. That's what they're supposed to do They're supposed to adapt this stuff We had a question about that one of our question was about you know Do you think there's a any correlation between when they ran out of source material when the show got worse essentially? And absolutely was bron was brought up Video on this he he uh, george r martin was talking about what changes were made in the show that He didn't necessarily come out and say they bothered him, but you can tell they bothered him and it was they started using Uh marketing research All right, so bron was a very popular character. So they started putting him in the show more Liked him now. I like bron for the most part But he like he stopped being useful in the story a long time ago But I like bron he was a fun character, you know, I liked it And the argument was made that a lot of that that was done with aria and sansa too now. They obviously had paths already But they were you know aria killing the night king I think one of the arguments I heard I don't know if this was from a fan or just somebody writing for the access media was that She hadn't had any really big kills And john had had all the you know all the sexy moments with the battle of the bastards and hard home and stuff But if you think about how she behaved well what she does in episodes five and six where she only Almost kills but then doesn't Imagine them writing that all out and then they're like man. She's not going to kill anyone this season of significance Have you killed the night king? There you go It's like you can't just like do it this way. Oh no uh So it definitely made them change their course. They they they rushed it. They changed course They started boot, you know smelling their own farts and they all start smell great. You we saw in the documentary And i've seen it firsthand with uh with the orville like the worship that goes on with the showrunner Like how much power they actually have and people are always talking about them talking about pleasing them There's that one scene in the documentary where uh the costume designers all excited because dan and dave We're going to be there and it's you know and I get it that's that's within their work environment But you can see how that derails creativity uh because You know what what's george's biggest problem with the prequels that everybody says he was surrounded himself by yes, man And he didn't have a gary curt's around to tell him, you know, no and And plus he's a billionaire. So who's going to tell a billionaire? No, that's what happened is they gain so much power They're you know, they're to this day. They're called geniuses. I I don't personally see that but Geniuses how they would absolutely And and and relative is certainly in this scenario. Um, and I was gonna say as well. Yeah, aya did kill the phrase But I was talking more about It as a whole if you look at that script about to finish and they're like, okay, aya doesn't feel anyone significant We can't have that Um, you could you could trade it all around Yeah Everything just stopped stream just stops yep, and I checked the thing apparently it is still stitched together So this video should Function still oh very good Rags I bought a gas mask after you talked about how I have always loved the way the israeli one looks Like an anime eyes jackal Hmm Oh, yeah gas masks. I mean halloween is right around the corner Yeah, that's a that's a cheap ass prop. You need a gas mask or nothing Real ones the assassination of archduke france ferdinand was the inciting incident of world war one Yes, things happen before that to set the stage, but that was still the inciting point Um, google say the inciting It's when the protag it's the it's what gets the protagonist involved in the story essentially Which isn't what we were using so Well, I didn't even mention it at the time because it just it just wasn't what we were talking about Yeah, you were yeah, we were We're just not using it and that yeah Maybe maybe I should should be picking a different Weird to really well we were both talking about the same thing It's just that what he would consider it was the moment it all comes back to basic inciting incident of the entire series Oh the series I put out the war of the five kings But they said the inciting incident of the series is the death of lord john erin Which I would happily concede as well Um because everything kicks off because of that But um, what we were talking about what insights the war It's like john erin's death didn't like the war didn't have to come after that a lot of different things could have happened Um, in fact, everything's still at peace. It's just that a couple of other characters do a couple of other things And the most significant being like I said when brand is nearly killed for the second time um Mola, please add some tywin chuckles to this later I can't do that if I'm not doing any post tywin wouldn't laugh at this or he'd be upset um Is two plus two equals four. Yes, I disagree That's uh, actually a reference to that also great debate We would try to explain The guy's arguments the counters he was giving to me and wolf like we would present something and he'd just be like I disagree and be like One argument stop it Um, i'm standing atop a sea of toxic brooders all screaming for blood as susan tries to shut down our stream My arms wide open and a bloody smile painted upon my face susan will not stop us boys rise up He's reference a joker Stop saying subjective ra get the roof Get the roof When I see doggie daddy's chungus plumbus uwu when I sit on doggie daddy's chungus plumbus uwu I guess oh whoa was the first one Oh, whoa Can he explain the respawning soldiers? He said that uh, he would that's why we really didn't talk about much of the logistical stuff He said that he pretty much agrees with all of it. Anyway, but I guess we could have talked a bit more about it at least Uh, this seems like a very long way of saying everything is just subjective so accept it It was a bit of that Uh, also, thank you for releasing re-releasing. They're not so great debate in an edited down form Well, I really needed the extra dose of cancer Supposed to edit happy to help I a Stark teleports behind night king. Oh may womb us in the air who is that supposed to be Oh my god, come on moller work with us Oh my one move Shinjiru have never been announced that before What you know, you know that the anime thing right the I'm assuming it's the nothing personal kiddo It's uh kinder. Yeah Yeah, I've never seen that before I feel out of the loop now But I know that nothing personal kiddo Especially when you teleport behind somebody Why it's hard then get out of the kitchen toots Wow Um If Peter Jackson can do mostly faithful adaptation of Lord the Rings and it is possible to do justice The Game of Thrones in adaptation at the very least Also, hi rags. Hello The one thing I'll say is that obviously Game of Thrones isn't finished yet It's harder to adapt something that doesn't well hasn't finished Um, but that doesn't mean they fucked up well before they ran out of uh false material. So Yep And George has probably changed his ending about four times since he's talked to him because uh I reason I I've always heard that that conversation was years ago like six years ago so A lot of stuff good change and apparently there was some drama between them too. So Uh piloting piloting a plane is not easy engineering a rocket is hard You're still expected to perform those tasks properly not an argument you hack And people feel differently when it comes to art that like They would argue probably that there's uh tangible Arm done when you don't perform the tasks that we're referencing with the ones But I think there's a lot of exceptions you'd be able to find with that Um, but By being that I I agree Have you considered the captain marvel is a perfect movie in the disney fanatical marvel universe? Also, I'm axing you is rags a good boy I am a good boy Uh in the disney fanatical marvel universe it wouldn't even work because disney have had control since Iron man 2 so That's that film still destroys everything they made if only it was the first of disney and then like it's disney's fanatical stuff Um, it's hard unless you're a femoid talking about my dick. I literally don't care Hard then don't do it. Oh Plenty of goreum can do it better I'm all in my last super chat. You said rd was your favorite tarantino movie reservoir dogs To be honest, I figured it would be objectively great and a joy to watch was wondering why you're not fond of hateful eight though I liked hateful eight at first Then I thought about how nothing makes sense in that film And uh It soured on me quite quickly. I kind of like the characters still though. I think a few of them are wasted But um, if you think about the plan and what everyone's doing there and what they choose to do It gets really stupid really fast Um, but I mean I'm still interested in tarantino's movies because uh, they usually got great dialogue Uh laugh my ass off just be good you loser I found your vids on tlj and loved them. Well, thank you. I'm glad you enjoy them Um, they're good. If I hear like one more time. I'm gonna werewolf Okay, you know werewolf Um, are you killing the knight king is dumber than if ghost yoda snuck up behind snook and tickled his nuts causing him to explode and destroy the supremacy Oh, no means That would have been better. I would have enjoyed it more. Yeah, but yeah, uh This george hasn't finished the books yet line is tiresome. We would have accepted an ending that was completely divorced from the books if it made sense Yeah, I agree. I absolutely agree Would yoda tickle his nuts with the force? Oh, he's not he's not very tall So you can probably he's yoda's like nut height right when you're sitting down If you're sitting down yoda's about nut height you can force tickle. Why can't you force tickle? That's how that's how yoda's people measure height in Nuts Uh molly you good man. You sound a little off today. I It's hard to explain, but I was that debate. I was not feeling it at certain points Uh And I I mean I don't like to call it out during a discussion because it almost feels like it's whether you're when you try and call out that Something's being derailed you've derailed it even if it wasn't derailed, you know, I mean by doing that almost Yeah, and I didn't want to highlight like with Daenerys We were circling back again and again and again and again and again and again again And like I really felt like the Daenerys conversation was over like 10 times before it ended Yeah I I had been convinced and I based on everything I've seen I was definitely already leaning that way But he I certainly was not Certainly was not convinced by anything. He's I think it was you know, some people were like, um Gotta like control better. You've got to give people on track better. You got to try and like reduce the amount of answer time He was giving it's like the problem is like fair. I think that's fair Um, we probably should have stepped in a few times because he was going on and on It's I don't think a lot of the times we were just like it's he was just going on and on and we was like it's really tough to tell sometimes uh because You every is for every single moment. They're speaking. You're like, is this the end of the sentence? No Oh, no, no now. No But I I think that's a fair criticism. Um, we will keep that in mind in the future I think the thing is especially because it was kind of a basically a 1v3 We I I know that I certainly felt like I didn't want to cut them off too much I know I do every once in a while because I feel I don't want people to go down rabbit holes Yeah, um, but um, I I get what you're saying. I got you Uh Yeah, we we do we do try our best with that sort of thing Like you we definitely several times would be like that's not addressing what was said or um, like stop I think I said stop at one point because Heading down rabbit holes. I even advised him not to head down some moral rabbit holes because he was saying some stuff that Anyway, uh, don't act like anyone could do better. I hate this guy now I bet he's going to tweet about how we should be okay with eating bugs someday near in future Yeah, I Can't confirm it could be a yes It could also I think the eating bugs is about some Reference about how we should start eating bugs because they're good for you and I guess environmentally kind and stuff look at chef Vito said yes, I'm was dominating that debate and then Elad said veto for roof I don't know if what veto means was he was talking a lot or if he means he was winning the debate I I don't I don't know uh I was talking a lot I he was talking a lot. That's for certain, but basically all of the points that he made were either Completely irrelevant or not the problems that we have or extremely poor rationalization of And like heavy interpretation desperately relying on very small things blown up to big things Lots of assumption going on there Apparently veto thinks jasm is on fire. All right Yeah, of course he does Uh, I also hate the you couldn't do it argument clearly. They've got the drive. So given the time resources and support. Who says they can't Yeah, I agree Uh, we're really not sure of what any people in chat or us are capable of because we haven't had this Opportunity so to assume we simply can't I don't know. I think that's a bit unfair I think moller and I were talking the other day about we we're pretty much both If if you put if you take any any rider for any show and then pair them up against the collective Noggins of the internet the internet will come up with a better story than you Road guarantee. Yeah That many minds working together Um, ha ha poopy pee pee tickle your cream sack. I will Yoda I guess that is a direct quote from that scene that didn't actually happen, but it's probably a deleted scene makes sense deleted scene, yeah Danny does a 180 in uh one episode if she had butchered everybody in the red keep only it would be fine Committing genocide as a whole other level. Yeah, that's why my suggestion I was just like she can kill a bunch of innocent people with collateral damage John can be just as outraged because she didn't have to do that But she was that pissed at Danny. She was so pissed. She wanted to burn down the whole red keep It's not too unreasonable to assume she would do that especially if she was really angry But to systematically destroy every portion of king's landings like what are you doing woman like ridiculous? I've certainly not been convinced that that makes any level of sense Doesn't that that kind of action requires at the very least a couple of episodes of king's landing populace being Showing up showing some sort of uprising killing some unsolid doing something uh to motivate denaries to to Do that to the populace Uh to where she just doesn't give two craps and now cersei beheading misande that's cersei still that's not Kings landingers they were locked in there. They were used as human shields So and she had to know that if we're going to go on assumptions She said Uh But no, we're i'm gonna fry him anyway because it makes sense because she you know She she fed a guy to a dragon who was a slave or she thought was a slaver Tactics, uh, well, you know if we're using the mafia argument the mafia doesn't commit massacres It brings attention to them for one Uh, and it doesn't win over people and the one the one thing the mafia does it wins over a lot of people Uh, they strategic kills um Yeah, that whole argument was flawed a theo brought up in chat I was gonna bring it up But I I just I guess I left it on the floor at one point But it's in my video as well To annihilate that many people in your populace. It's like, oh, yeah, this will make them fear me It's like they're gonna fucking hate you They will never forget this You better watch. Oh, absolutely. This will this will be something that's never forgotten entire Thousands of lineages could have been ended No shoes there are overall good for westeros And westeros know and knowing what we know what would what has been established in the show There would be five or ten lords who would just be waiting To take their chance to they they can see that dragons are easily killed Uh, you know, you're on took out one field And there's ways to I mean it's just one dragon That's still something that needs to be feared obviously, but there are ways to kill Right. I mean they they have to be watched all the time You pay the right person. You can get access to it Uh, yeah, there will be lords plotting immediately. It would not be a very stable rule at all So, you know, again the motivation in that was what and then afterwards which we didn't even talk about she You know, they did that ridiculous fascist speech in it, which was just dumb The only thing it was good for was memes and a good thumbnail where I could put the hitler hat on her, you know, um, but Yeah, it just Over and over again on something that I mean if the argument in the chat was it didn't deserve that much time I could agree with you on that it was just it was bad in so many ways And it was because of it didn't have any depth. Uh, it was all God superficial. I don't know if that's the right word. It was just all simple Uh game of thrones became simple at the end. Yeah, I agree with that Uh foreshadowing doesn't mean it's set up properly There's a bunch of videos on youtube that came out soon after all this stuff we came with ones that were addressing that Can't just go oh it was foreshadowed in season one episode three Like I could I could find some quote out of the gajillion quotes that might lend itself to what I Saw or what ended up being the case You could do that with anything But this character said there's one piece of dialogue at this one episode this one time For everything it's like, uh, oh that justifies it. That's fair enough. Let me add him his points are so wrong. It hurts You guys should invite jay long bone to watch batwoman with you um Maybe I don't know if she's interested or not 100% like The thing is if she wants to do videos on it, it might be awkward that We've got a video of her reacting to it. You know what I mean? Like she might want to do her own thing And also I I have to admit The way it is right now in me rags fringing and metal a lot of the time Something stupid happens and like all four of us want to want to call it out And so we stumble over each other until one person gets the mic if you know what I mean And so if we have a fifth person there like It would be crowded. Yeah, and this is like I think it would be still be funny It's just that um, I don't know if a fifth person can really work with How much all of us have to say about how dumb everything isn't that show? Yeah, and the stuff is always happening. There's always stuff to comment on pretty much. I mean That film is dense Uh e-fap. How do I get an objectively hot girlfriend? Um objectively hot you mean like in terms of Like kelvin Yes Like if she's I don't know man like I don't get like someone who's a fever or anything Or she's an alien and being horizontal, but honestly, um be confident Have a sense of humor and be willing to listen Those are those are the three golden rules that I just made up instantly. There you go golden rules If you're fun to be around they will want to be around you If you are dull and boring then You like game of thrones season eight No, it's no from a lot of women out there. It's don't risk it. Don't risk it risk it Don't risk it. Oh, yeah, don't get married. Fuck that shit um I really don't Flavors the most respectable people This is the thing. I you don't actually kill them for no reason Uh, I've eaten meat before it doesn't mean I'd eat human Yeah, these these are a lot of obviously kind of been over the I found the crazy extrapolations The idea that like it it was a defense of her actions to say she threatened to do things that was baffling to me Yeah, I think we'd all happily agree that there's a lot of things people threaten to do that would never do them Then that's the whole point. They use a threat Uh, just watch this just watch the scene. Danny looks cold not like she's enjoying the burning of the harpy man Also, we're not talking about joffery I figured it out. He's an alien quick get him to draw something I'd appreciate the dreams Uh, free hong kong death is preferable to communism I agree. Absolutely. No, no, we've got a bad revolution of hard age band them and take their money now That works children aren't like their fathers. Oh, yeah, I wanted to bring that up We he referenced the mad king and how he did similar things I was like, isn't the whole fucking point of that what episode he's like children are not their fathers Like, yeah, we're not responsible for our ancestors stuff like that I guess she just that coin man that whether or not she's insane coin. It just landed on insane It was flinging in the air this whole time Yep, just needed that I wish they'd never had it in the first place. It's such a lame like 50 50 chance will be insane and even if they seem like they're not insane, they might suddenly become insane. You know, like, uh Yeah Danny loves collateral damage. That's why she killed all of the women she freed when the witch killed drogo and her kid. Oh wait What the actual feck There were no gamers left alive in king's landings. So they failed to rise up. They lived in a society Demola bring us his head. I would net such violence such By whose metric his sums it all up there Not even by her well, it's for the innocent. Um, so by this guy's logic hitler did nothing wrong because his point of view with the victims were not innocent Um, I don't know if you agree with that I can't remember what the context exactly was what we were discussing at that point But I know that did conclude that she did consider those people innocent I'm all I didn't you know you burned them anyway. Yeah Mola, didn't you know metrics are subjective Um Brax didn't you do a video on that person who found metrics to be racist? Oh, yeah, the tweet. Yeah, I how yeah units of measurement are bad They should be done away with any proper communist society will do away with the concept of Units of measurement. I think we can all agree with that right gary That makes sense. That's a measurement man. Like I saw them the other day down the street and I was like Fuck you man. Like hey, and I was like no, don't don't give me that Units of measurement oppression Well, you know how far away things are Miss my super chat. I posted in efab 54. You never responded to it in efab 55 You went from the one before it's the one out Why did you spend the whole super chat telling me to read an old super chat instead of just Saying the thing that you think I've missed I can't go back to efab 54 super chats You don't you can't search super chats because you don't understand. I'd have to yeah You would have to read that would take some time to search through because there's a way to look at all your super chats But that's a lot of scrolling. You know how many super chats we get so Um, you guys don't mind. We could stop right now and look for it. Nobody minds. They'll wait It's matthew saint saint Sayah, is he in chat right now? If you're in chat right now just ask the question whatever it is Um My eyes in the chat if you Uh Ask it on twitter. I should see it That's another quicker way to do this because You don't understand how much I'll have to load. That's it's a lot Yeah, and this is not like just loading loading. This is loading Yeah, I guess laggy every single time you hit the next page. I'm in the chat Okay, we see you ask your question. There he is. Ask the question do it Do it I don't have twitter. That's okay. I'll see you in the chat. You're asked the question bridge keeper. I'm very excited I really didn't before it's like a super defensive question or something It doesn't get past the filters on chat or something like that. Oh, no We're a tree. Everybody's all excited about what this is gonna be I'm I'm ready. It's honestly like deliver matthew I figure you guys would have noticed by now, but there's not a super chat. I won't read out. Um I will I've not avoided reading one yet. So Oh, we'll do it give you up. Yeah boy Any second, I guess I'll read the next one. Let me know if you guys see a cue I'll keep an eye on it Uh, this guy can't differentiate between rationale from detached observers perspective and rationale from the character's perspective. That's kind of dumb I uh Rational from detached observers perspective. I think I think that he felt that we were having trouble with that Um, I guess you could say about both sides, but I always felt like we had more references than speculation Um, I must burn the children for future generations denario bobaglio denario bobaglio Burn the children for the future generations This is so wonderful Um Listen the future generations can't be oppressed if there are no future generations. Okay It makes sense Uh war makes strange bedfellows i.e. republican france and sarist rusher Is that the theme of game of thrones? Maybe you can see it. Maybe war makes strange bedfellows Yeah, why not anything The discussion made me appreciate robert baratheon so much you realize that the dude was 100 right about that sadistic con Yes, uh, I said that in my video robert baratheon was right If only we had trusted him Top 10 let downs in game of thrones discussion needed What like top 10 saddest moments of that discussion is that what you're after? Oh, there it is So if I had written the star wars sequel trilogy I would have had a civil war between the republic and those not wanting to go back to how things were in the prequels duke tries to keep the jedi out of the fight It wouldn't have been a bad idea I guess it will hold up like it would depend on I can believe it like if it especially if both of the factions were Very morally dubious or kind of gray areas or there wasn't a clear right answer That would get luke to be like, oh, yeah, obviously these are the good guys So we need to help them. It would be great if like leia asked luke to like win a fight for them and he was like I can't Because I can't I don't believe in this Something that would be great. I can't risk my pupils something like that. I don't know it would certainly be very interesting And I I agree that would be that would be something I would be willing to watch Yeah, I would like to watch that unfold that little uh That your little pitch right there has more background than the two new disney films I already feel like I have more context just from his from his chat That I I know nothing about anything from the force awakens or the last jedi. I don't know why The first order happened. I know I know I'm supposed to read books and comics and stuff, but I'm not going to so Done Matthew Rags if you're still here when superchats are being read as a doggo yourself. What is your stance on neutering? Uh If what do you think what do you think it is? It's probably exactly what you think it I don't know as a as a human What's your view on castration? Oh my Away from my balls away from my balls, mate I was born with him and I'll die with him Well, you can keep him in your purse or something like that, right? Wasn't that from the fucking movie? Um That jack black movie Which one The one like the 10 000 bc one. Oh year one or something wait What was it called the one with jack black and was it not john cena michael sarah? Um, oh fuck. Yeah. No, I don't Year one. Was that what it was called? I can't remember what the name is, but I know he's The joke about keeping balls in the purse. I'm guessing in that Yeah, he keep he there was there's a eunuch in it and he keeps his balls in his little and a little purse And he throws them at one of the characters it was nacho libre nacho libre Kill your enemies they win big idiot. Oh, no. Yeah, that sounds like a big idiot sounds like a Oh, I don't think I think that's a bit that's big. That's too big brain for big idiots History is written in blood and even the greatest heroes have likely done terrible things Modern mentality or thinking has no bearing in the narrative. That is what george is trying to represent Um, I don't I think there's room to say that Also, I believe it's about time mr. Neurotic to uh, say goodbye to the Like to tell them all where they can find Sure, you can find me at Neurotic. You can just search it here on youtube, uh, and Subscribe if you like it. Uh, I talk a lot about a lot of things game of thrones But I will be talking about watchman tonight with uh our good friend doom cock I guess it was on the previous eflat should be fun Guys you guys back to back. I'm sorry. We couldn't get to the same time You know how scheduling conflicts are, you know, you know, how the biz is Yeah It's unfortunate because thanks for uh, thanks for coming on. Did you have fun? Absolutely I had a no, I always have fun when I'm here and it is a it is an honor and a privilege to be on eFap with rags and right Hey, uh Good to talk to you again rags and it's good to see you absolutely Uh, I will come back whenever you want or if you don't want again, that's fine. My feelings won't be hurt much But um And I gotta get you guys on sometime too. Yeah. Oh, yeah Nothing we can't talk about Sure, we can come up with a couple things we can talk about the rain. We'd be fine I could bitch about that. I like the um Damn weather Ew, we we need some to wash some of the poop away on my uh, the streets of my fair city san francisco You could guess you can guess, uh, all right, so thanks guys Yeah, um, obviously I was just gonna say the link to new drottick's channel is in the description He does cover lots of lots of media You've been on enough times now that I think most of them are gonna know you but if they still don't Hit the link check the stuff out I've been on a couple of his videos here and there you might be able to find some of them and then start looking at all the stuff It makes sense. Right Have fun watching bat woman tonight almost I know That we will have fun watching bat woman when we finally get around to doing that amazing Look forward to it. All right guys. Take care. See you around, dude Bah bah, then there was two And then there were two I think a lot of the fake f's no f for fakes He'll ask you. Oh my goodness just says offline doesn't even say buffering Oh, no help People got wind of our racetisms. No Oh, no, you didn't mean it Oh, we're being ironic. Is it not coming back and gay? Oh, we're back and gay. Thank goodness So they were the gayest of homoloids homoloids It's back. Mola did a boomer. I didn't do nothing. I was those I oh wait. I just did a double negative Oh, no, I did all of the things Sorry But you can hear me right rags, right? I can't hear you. Thank goodness. Um Hey, Mola. Hope this helps out a bit also. Hi. Tormatacos if you're watching hot Um a droharaki horde Or dothraki horde is basically a traveling grape carnival That's kind of true. Hey, that's great for some of them They can they can increase their population with ease so unethically That is my subjective interpretation. There you go analysis complete Howdy gentlemen, I have a deep question for you. I used to be a sewer worker best job I had to wear a harness before entering manholes. This gave me the unfortunate kink of harnesses My question is what kinks have y'all gotten from weird mundane places and do you regret them? Well, I normally whenever I'd venture down a manhole. I normally don't do it with a hard Yeah, you don't be safetying up for that. You want to go straight ahead? Yeah. Yeah, the danger is the thrill you see kinks that I have developed through like jobs and work um That's a good question, but one I'm I probably have to think about that's something I consider oftentimes I used to work in a I used to be a I used to be a valet. It's one of my previous jobs um So the idea of like casual sex and cars might have come from that imagining just Fucking railing someone in a car I like that idea Kind of kind of kinky for me. I dig it um But that's the only one that I could probably say comes to mind at the moment I'd have to think about it. It's an odd question a good one, but an odd question Yeah, I was gonna say I don't really go any answers. Nothing I can think of like weird mundane development You ever just want to hate you used to work people you used to work in retail, right dealing with people You ever used to want to just hate fuck customers? You know what maybe just tie him down to the front desk and maybe think I can maybe fuck him You ever want to rape him? I wouldn't go is that where the thrill comes in knowing that they haven't Because some people are like that. I'm not like that just for the record. I think consent is cool But you know, you know how some people are Yeah, it's it's a it's a thing to think about. I don't know. I haven't really considered it myself So that's why I don't really have any answers It's a mundane answer I like it when Like when she's like in the car and her ass is hanging out the side and some guys just fucking her Drilling just drilling just hammering that now. Absolutely. Just harnessing that manhole Nothing sets up madness like establishing stability Yeah I think that's relevant. Yeah You know the world was better off after hitler when he died fascism never popped up again There are I don't I don't it is an interesting With that Um, yeah, that's that's gonna be a tougher one. I understand the argument. I don't agree Well, I don't think I do Well, there it I've heard the argument that um It's good that the holocaust happened because it shielded it It woke up the world about the horrors of genocides and things like that and I don't agree with that, but I understand the reasoning. I think it's don't think it's a good one though Um, especially because of the scale of it Uh, I gotta go buy you massifs. Goodbye Um, in my in my opinion a specific german ruler with a stylish face didn't gas millions of people Can't put a number on things like that, right? I mean for the actual questions thing I mean, there there was an interesting discussion there to be had about the concept of is We know which is more valuable the life of someone or their freedom and Things like that. I I spaced on what I've seen The It's it's interesting to think about how many people would have Daenerys had to have freed from slavery To justify, you know, x lives that were x innocent. We're talking like at least I want to say 600,000 at least I'm being generous when I say that Yeah, that's that's a very interesting moral question. Not one that I'm prepared to solve at the moment Uh playing devil's advocate the world was better off with her. She did contribute a lot against the night king But I don't think he was thinking that That would have been a great argument if you that would have been a better argument Yeah, I actually would have been like, oh, well, maybe yeah, because maybe she actually legit saved the world Which I mean if you're saving the world, I mean if anything is the cost of saving the world It's the world. So, you know That's one of those situations where it's like you might have had a good point if you only had the right references But then again, once you just you just fucking have someone teleporting in and stab the night king, then what's the True a lot of people actually argued. She was kind of useless because her men are wiped out I knew dragon doesn't really do anything other than like Yeah Saves john at one point. Yeah, like it's like. Ah, yeah, just go run across the wall and go assassinate him We all know you can do it. Just do it Mm-hmm um Right, so someone said no it didn't is like, yeah, I agree that that's why I don't agree with the idea that You know, ultimately he was better that the holocaust happened I mean in my What I would say is that if it if something similar to the holocaust happened But it was much much much smaller in scale and that began a movement that actually prevented a worse genocide That argument would be more solid But still it's a really touchy subject for a lot of people Lyric said no Kaibin literally says there's a million people in king's landing I know but she doesn't kill everybody and that's why I said I was being very generous by saying she only got 600,000 for sure And that's who knows what the aftermath was. It's like all of the all of the ash. That's fucking up people's lungs yeah There's a yeah, she killed a lot of people there's no doubt Uh, loved how it ended hated how it got there My take on game of thrones season eight in a nutshell um I'm not sure how I feel about how it ended Regardless of how it got there, but I think I would have been much more on board if there's properly Hi raggoth Hello Can do surgery. No can't do surgery. You can perform oral on your kids I I don't know that that's true um I guess as long as they're of age, it's legal to perform oral sex on your kids Right. Oh, maybe I guess I mean, I guess I don't actually know it was actually illegal to perform surgery on family members I didn't know that was a thing. Well, I I've heard that I don't know if it's real But I think there was the idea that you aren't allowed to perform surgery on your own kin I don't know if the logic really holds through for that I'm not sure you would think that with your own kids you would be like super duper extra careful I don't know though This was not originally brought up by us chat. Look at them freaking out. It's like this is brought up by super chat Isn't our guest what are we supposed to do ignore? Yeah, people are talking about it But maybe the idea is that if you perform surgery on a loved one and you fail that will have extra emotional repercussions that could Damage their career or their ability to operate in the future. I don't know what the rulings are behind it Um, I'm just speculating a little bit. I like to do some specutisms That's just that's just what I think. I don't know Um First time super chatting where did find lisper lord? Uh, he's uh, we covered his video and he said he'd like to uh Have a discussion on game of thrones and so we did Hmm Pick yes an irl Well, he's not here anymore Uh, freeing unsullied save more babies in the long run Oh, you mean like despite the many killings wait, that's not impossible because they've all had they've they've they're They're wonderful pieces removed that that between a once Wonderful in in the center of the body. It's all gone As they say in the show the stones and the pillars The stones and the pillars for each of them multiple pillars Please bring tonald on to debate this guy. Why would we do that tonal deserves like full attention from us We need to explore his mind asking about like new games that came out. Wouldn't that be so fun? Like just like tonal. What have you played recently looking forward to? Yeah, what are your big games? You know The big game and what's your favorite game of all time? Tell us why Oh, yeah, that would be something to ask. I would legit be interested Then we'd have like questions from the audience What's your people want to say? Yeah I guess jay's asking chat how it was. They're all saying it was bad I mean we we did everything we could we're hoping it was at least enlightening as to why someone would love game of thrones season eight or like Uh saying the show is trash without bias is bad, but sucking it dry without bias is good ain't no sanders like double stand I mean he did that no one it's never a problem when people like things for bad reasons Yeah It's like you get if you like it you get a pass Uh, yes an irl saying mean things is bad. Also. Yes an irl. I think dany killing a thousand is okay because thieves He was because thieves who's because uh So wait, I don't think he ever said that was a good thing or anything Uh, who would win a civil back gorilla or a werewolf bipedal and quadrupole variants Say the two options one more time Silverback gorilla or a werewolf and you get the bipedal or quadrupedal A werewolf a werewolf win every time because it's yeah, absolutely a werewolf werewolves are like supernatural On they like they got like a curse the curse of lycanthropy Like they can regenerate pretty quickly depending on what law we're talking about too And then obviously the second it's like hits this gorilla with a bite or a scratch that gorilla is fucked Yeah, they're supposed to be like super strong and super fast and stuff like that And gorillas are no joke sure, but man is a werewolf. Yeah, I'd have to see the sizes I guess Because again, it's there's a lot of law questions. It's kind of the same with um with the vampire I don't know them law details Beams Noderotic will know this the punisher is a far more cruel and morally gray character. He wouldn't murder women and children What's Daenerys' excuse? Uh, also, I notice that I've heard it brought up that she was distraught over the loss of her dragons Yeah, he never mentioned that I think he mentioned, um the death of misande at one point, but Uh, I've never liked that excuse. Anyway, it's like people you love die Therefore you start killing innocent people like I don't follow Uh, but yeah, what's Daenerys' excuse? She doesn't have an excuse So I shouldn't compare george the tulkin, but to mills and boon. That's where I have went wrong mills and boon is bills and don't understand Uh manga anime recommendations skull facebook seller honda san Honda san As a retail massive moeller might really enjoy and find the protagonist relatable Oh, is there gonna be An anime about a a retail this one. I I could see myself enjoying it for sure Ask d&d themes are for eighth grade. Oh shit. Yeah Damn, I wish we'd uh told him about that so Uh, one of d&d are on records saying that our themes for eighth grade book reports Like disparaging the shit out of thebes, which is again not something that we would support either. We're we're Certainly not in the camp that thebes suck. Um But like they don't seem to care or at least maybe they've changed their position on that I would have to get like an update see if someone asked sitting in But uh, yeah interesting comment for sure. Um, it's meant to be sunday a day of rest but not for me. Oh Oh Bad realizations with this one The only good kami is a dead one Like we've had that a few times Rags have you heard about the air force retiring the eight inch floppy disks they use for the nuclear launch systems? No, I have not heard that Then I guess I guess I mean if I mean there's the idea that if it's old, but it works and it makes sense and it's reliable I I mean, yeah, it might sound silly, but I don't I don't know about them I don't know about if if there are any super duper benefits to using floppy drives Like I don't know Maybe there maybe there's a reason why they kept it so long. I'm not certain. Yeah, it must be reliable I guess. Yeah, maybe they're less prone to something that New technology is I'm not sure On hack a floppy disk of it Yeah, it's very possible Uh Please never have yes and on again. This this is amongst the worst commentaries. I've heard he's awful ignorant delusional pitiful I don't think it was the worst. I Wasn't worse the major lee one was worse. Do you think that was the worst? I I would say that it's uh Are we including the not-so-great debate? Oh, that's yeah, it's gonna be between them two I guess Yeah, one of those two. This was definitely the best What just the best in general? Well, I mean the best of the three this one out of the three. Yeah Yeah for no Never bring him back. No notification youtube sucks I hear jj claim yoda's last name is la he who Lay he someone said in chat. It's harder to install malware on a floppy And their small storage space means issues are more obvious. That's interesting Yeah, I'm assuming that's true Yeah, that that's kind of interesting Uh, what and I imagine that like because it's older technology That the ability to like the amount of people who are good at writing malware for that sort of thing There's just fewer of them anyway Each of these hilarious. Oh I suppose. Yeah, there there was a Yeah, certain more of a spectacle I can understand that argument that was more entertaining What the moist floppy massive is happening That that's one way to put it Of course, it's always worse for the wham and We didn't actually determine that. Uh lack of satisfaction does not equal feeling bad Lack of satisfaction does not equal feeling bad Not being satisfied would be kind as a bad feeling would it not I mean if you're not satisfied Man, it depends on how you feel about neutrality. Yeah, I suppose I mean, it's being neutral good bad in that sense or is it its own little thing I'm not sure. I don't think that should have thrown me as much as it has Um, the love of christ kick them too obnoxious kick them Them wonder if they were referring to Maybe the three of us From now on you will refer to chat as the chad as pendants for making Making us listen to jezz and irl You could leave it anytime you want no one forced you to stay true. We did not shackle you not do the shackles We also open with the white walkers and we see how that goes prologue is still the first scene Yeah great Um, it ended six months ago. How are y'all still on about it? Um True how are you guys? Why are you talking about game of thrones terminator dark fate is coming out? I just I just like the idea that it's like we'll talk about something like predator. It's like It's like that came out fucking four years ago. Why are you talking? I'm like, are you right? I guess it's kind of old Uh, all I feel is pain. Oh Why does nerd sound like smug adam ruins kick? Uh, do you think nerd rodik sounds anything like adam's ruined everything? I don't know. I haven't listened to adam ruins everything in a long time I am the same on that Bragg's held chat a gunpoint what? Um, oh hero ragu the fagu and others Haru Haru I understand raw. I feel like a roofing this dude That's an interesting context. Most people would say roofy, but it's like no He's a woofy a woofy um I would be terrified of king brand he can take control of mines and is looking for the dragon sounds like the beginnings of a tyrant to me Uh, yeah, that's right. Let's just let's just hope it all works out. I guess Oh Sure, it'll be gray. I'm sure everything will work out just fine Guys again all worked up over nothing Uh, uh, it would have been awesome to see bragg walk into the mountain And yeah, I I'll go for these payoffs if we can't get anything else Uh, brand can't see if knight king can be killed with fire because knight king was not killed with fire He was killed with valyrian steel I mean just that we've already addressed the whole like his ability to see it's the future thing is Weird it would destroy the whole show if he could like in any consistent manner So of course they just write it altissime and just hope he's skeptics Uh, the asshole burgers is strong with this one Hey, buddy get off your high horse. No one's buying it Real question. Yes, and are you in any way connected to the nkvd director yes off because your torture methods are very effective Oh, no Hey, yes, and what is 30% but also half? I know that Just woke up and heard a dude say brand is his favorite character I guess this will be one of the most painful debates when I go back later also high rags Hello How is wolf doing doing good as far as I'm aware. Yeah Uh, let's get credit to dnd for sticking to martin's vision dnd didn't really want to do all the dreams and magic and stuff for the show Yeah, this is the thing um, there's so much complicated shit going on about How much they stuck to his vision I'd rather not speculate Uh Even I think this guy is a lispy fig I came from ar supposed to be the nice raw Um Yeah, I saw that as well rags. I was thinking of saving. I've got a couple just to save them all for the meme stream um Hey rags moeller and nerd just a quick question. What happened when pinocchio said his nose will grow right now It's the paradox His head explodes. It is the only logical conclusion I don't know about that. Yep. We call paradoxes because we don't know how they'd resolve. That's the thing His head explodes. Have you not read the In law dude, really? I haven't read the pinocchio lore. I was reading up on the loompa lore How much have you got left of that? You've been reading it for like years now I will I'll write a paper on the Write law about how long the law is I'm trying to stay a couple episodes behind so I have something to listen to for my trip to texas loss later this week I should be watching this one on my way back home from there also. Hi rags Hello, I hope that is going to be an entertaining way back gordon. I hope this was uh Everything you hoped it would be It's all joker earlier this evening with my dad and younger brother. It was as good as you said genuinely masterful performance from jukwin Uh I've actually confused myself on whether or not i'm pronouncing that right anymore Jukwin or Yeah, tell me how to pronounce it. I've thought too much about pronouncing it. No, I've forgotten the way to pronounce it How do you remember pronouncing it rags? What's the correct way? pronouncing what The jukwin phoenix Joaquin Joaquin Walking phoenix that's all that's always I've heard here is whenever it's one of those names Where if you've never Like even if you've heard of the name Joaquin and you see it written you don't put the two together It's a really weird. It's a really weird name. Yeah, I really need to get that into my head because I'll probably be saying his name a lot Uh, especially with incoming joker podcasts Joaquin But yes true excellent stuff. I have nothing to say so hello rags Hello This dude is a Todd offensive Uh a small amount for all those hours of entertainment you pride. I wish I could give more. Oh and hi mawler. Hi rags So hello What do you do? Get Thor Skywalker as guest balanced knowledgeable Not against it. Uh, I think he's actually on the list. I think people have asked for him before It's just a big list Gary Um, I watched rags fall out 76 video three times last night and I was never bored Nice How I'm glad you weren't bored by it Use this I I'm I'm always happy to hear that people are squeezing every last bit of enjoyment because playing that game was not always fun You gotta get that three times if you if you can watch something three times without getting bored that means it was good four times Obviously, you'll get bored. There's no feeling But uh, yeah three times. That's when you know, it's a true good. It's a genuine good a real good Uh, use this for some canned dog food you absolute lads Worst crime against humanity pineapple or broccoli The worst thing for what? Where's crime against humanity? I actually don't I don't hate broccoli. So No, I love broccoli I have like broccoli is like a snack to me. I got a bunch of it in my freezer. I can heat up whenever and I love broccoli broccoli's delicious Pineapple by itself is fine too. Like I like them both I'm not a fan of pineapple myself You don't yeah, that's fair enough pineapple is tart You could say is but I like it for that reason. I will say that broccoli I think broccoli goes with a lot more stuff than pineapple because broccoli is very complementary to many delicious food stuffs That is the definitive objective answer and nobody can challenge it and if they do they're wrong Lord that out John snow identity equals biggest hate rhino of all time Identity didn't really matter in that last season. Let's be honest. Let's I was psyched to you for Watchman tonight Gary kidding. I want it to be good though Like I said, I'll be interested to see his coverage of it because uh I'm very much an outsider when it comes to Watchman, but I saw the movie I have the uh the graphic novel I'll be interested By the way, I have I have finished. I will survive the Zootopia comic by That's interesting How many I don't I don't dislike it how many carrots 10 when I write um I don't know I It's better than Game of Thrones All right. All right What wait, I'm I I'm uh ross says never rags never talk about food. Um, I'm unironically a god-tier chef And saying broccoli goes with more than pineapple is garbage to your ignorant Uh, no, don't don't don't agree I I think just say you're a god-tier chef back to him You could you could have broccoli on the side of anything and it works great And that's I'm not disparaging pineapple. I just think that I just think that broccoli is better It'll be the great war of efab broccoli versus pineapple. I'm on team broccoli. I'm sorry But I I guess if you apparently I will survive is a Zootopia comic about Judy hops finds that she is pregnant um with nick wilde's baby And while nick is very very happy to hear this that he will be a father He is uh dismayed to learn that Judy hops wants an abortion And this comic is basically just about Their conversation after she breaks to him that news Was it compelling? Um, I think it's certainly interesting I There are deep questions to ask because of it even if it is a Zootopia comic. It's not a poor comic or anything um But it um Yeah, I I can see why people both hate and like it Mm-hmm Um, I asked the shad question and that's the point and he won't get it But you should ask him with all seriousness. It'll be hilarious also. Hi rags. Hello You know what? I will it's in there. I hope I remember to ask it seriously I uh I will do my best We'll see because if we say to shad will you give homecoming leeway for being in the disney fanatical marvel universe How do you think he'd respond to that if I was trying to be serious? Disney fanatical star wars universe. No disney fanatical marvel universe So it almost sounds like i'm saying something Disney fanatical marvel universe I want to hear that question again So if I said to shad will you give homecoming leeway for being in the disney fanatical marvel universe? What would he say he probably probably baffled and went clarification about what that even means I'm trying to think of like I wonder what he'd say if he's Like how could he interpret that as an actual question? Or would he just say like what do you mean by fanatical and that's when I that's when it's over That's when the curtain is up. That's when I'm I'm dead to rights. That is when I'm common phrase like I'm just done where it's at We'll have to see how that goes next time um I'm referring to all the dildos with youtube channels never said customers freddy prince jr on star wars critics. Okay, bae when do your thing um Yeah, the freddy prince jr clip. We're uh, we'll probably see him say that stuff alive at some point I'm gonna get the the right guess and selection eclipse if you will But oof uh next joker e-fap. Look at the king of joker driver. It's the worst joker take I've seen also high rags Hello Boss yes enough a roof scan me. I dare you I guess we'll have to scan you first before you can trust you right um Who would you cast as james bond I ask because I think me 207 will be Unlikeable as much as her attraction. Henry cavill would be my first choice um For who james bond Henry cavill wouldn't make a bad james bond. Um Fred james bond Um, that's there's probably plenty. Um, let me see Obviously dany de Vito goes without saying And I think if someone told me why so has to get a special man Uh, what about chanting tatum? Yeah, maybe those three in a singular movie together playing the three elements of his personality simultaneously Hmm Let me see Henry. Someone's saying cavill's me. Well cavill was really good as the bad guy in mission impossible Yeah, I liked him in that a lot. Yeah, I thought he's really good. Um Uh Kevin space Peter st. Peter dinklage. I agree. Oh, Nathan fillion I would be absolutely down with Nathan fillion as james bond. Yeah, I checked that Yeah, he give the super charismatic, you know kind of side to it I'd love that the the clever sort of you know less less the gunfighter more the Super subterfuge disguises kind of thing. I would absolutely be down with that. That'd be great. Good idea Um medea. Absolutely. Medea would be on ham. That could be cool Um Joaquin phoenix But only if he's playing the joke of james bond Joker bond Someone brought up richard armatage that would not um, maybe maybe Maybe um, michael fastbender possibly Potentially obama. Yeah. Yeah The don of course. You've been sammy. Yeah. Yeah me, yeah Um, i'm hardy. That's possible. I want to I want to see norm mcdonald plan james mckellan opera bond Becky chan bond relasson bond. Okay. Now we've gone too far. That's Gone over the line now the shrek bond. That's fine, but relasson bond I Use fun and then you just had to go in terrible terrible terrible Uh gary say baby girl is a naughty girl. Well I I think it's important that you get that message to him. I will save it for the next time you I've got so many messages someone's saying mark hamill is jake bond I mean, why not? I like it Remember the past bring it to life if you have to Oh, no episode nine for you So rags, do you plan on replying to patricia taxon formally eric taxon's video? As I've said many times, um, it is a terrible video that really isn't worth a response or hurrying to one We will probably get around to it, but eventually This is the thing. I don't know if it's gonna be possible this year very very low priority I've got like at least four e-faps planned and then a whole bunch of ones that are like In theory and then we've got episode nine coming like I don't know where it's gonna fit and it's gonna have to wait Um, I think the knives out looks pretty good, but I'm not going to get my hopes up Well trailers are supposed to make things look better, you know Yes, we'll see Hi rags. Tell us why masquerade is your favorite film I thought the actors did an excellent job conveying emotions I cried like a baby, but I also laughed at the parts Um, I think that it appropriately shifts its tone The parts you're supposed to laugh and the parts where you're supposed to feel very sad I think that it does an excellent job conveying know the themes of loyalty and staying true to what you think is right Uh, I think the sets are excellent. The music really does a good job to accent what's happening in the scenes But man, it's just such solid acting from all of the people involved And I don't know their names because it's a korean film. Um, I don't know the actors. I'm not familiar with them But man, I was I was super invested in all the characters and all that's But I but I would I I adore it I need to rewatch it sometime because I just remember watching that and I was sold. I was so into it Hi gary. Did you say hi to rags for me? Hi moeller Hello, um, I guess he must have said hi to you at some point. So I'm gonna say the answer to that probably yes Well, just in case. Hello Hi wags Hello Do you always keep always always leaving one more Hi gaoi You guys walk feel great too moeller, but pronouncing your r as a w isn't clear in print. So I left you out of the gag Okay, I accept it. Thank you very much Rags if you had the money, would you get a suppressor short barreled rifle short barreled shotgun a machine gun slash any full auto or all of the above Would I have either one of those or all of the above? I guess, yeah Definitely all of the above Of course all of the above but Because that's obvious if I could only pick one of those It would probably either be a suppressor or a short I don't really have any interest in automatic weapons myself I'm fine with having razor fist on just don't let him poison the well on kujima I don't know that kujima is gonna come up because Uh, I don't know if kujima's really ever come up in our e-fabs passing but uh Yeah, uh, if razor fist was to come on or if he wants to come on Don't know you I don't even know what the topic would be Figure out what he's interested in uh moeller e-fab live at wembley stadium. When? 2020 20 When it's got a slot Oh, it'll be a little the time for now, but if you freeze yourself We'll see it faster than most relative to your perspective Braggs, please sing two more drafts of iwa yong wa thing I posted All right, let me scroll up. It's very easy to pick out from the other messages in the discord I Watch on wall. I assume that's how to pronounce it. Okay. Um I was young wall Yeah, see if you want something a bit more dramatic where it ends on a lower note Maybe you want something I guess more jubilant you could always go like I was young wall Yeah, something really I guess I don't know I hope that I hope that was good. Let's go to be it I feel like it's nailed Oh, yeah, I think it's I think it does. Good job. Can me. I dare you also. Hi moeller. Hello Random question for you all date rose tico or captain marvel date rose tico or Captain marvel captain marvel has more power. You should probably get your stuff um And rose tico is living in a world where she's about to get blown up by a huge army of death star things Well, I think this is um I think that Is this someone like if if we're in this relationship with them. Are they in our world or are we in theirs? I figured that since they use the character names that we'd just be Attaching ourselves to them sort of thing in that case rose tico um What's the rationale exactly? I get to be in the star wars world Think of all the places I could go to get away from this bullshit I mean the marvel universe ain't so bad either Oh, I guess that's true. There's the guardians. Yeah, I suppose that's true. Hmm Um, yeah, I don't have to stay on earth. I could go anywhere in that universe um Who okay because what's interesting is that we've already have this discussion shift away from them as people And the worlds that they're attached to But if it was just them as characters, who would you pick? like to hang out with I would pro okay, so my interest with captain marvels. I would like to actually crack it I want to convince her that she's actually a piece of shit by going over everything she's done It rose tico. I mean Probably nice I don't think we'd have a lot of similar interests me and rose Uh Who would you rather have sex with? I don't know Who would you rather have sex with? um Do I have is it like as they are in there in their respective films? I would say as they are or in any way that you believe that you could Alter them through a relationship A very hard question That is a very difficult question um I would I would I think I would rather have sex with rose tico If you're adding the relationship part it probably would be rose because you at least have a chance of like Having a develop well rather than dealing with a literal god also, I think The actress uh if we're going by ages the younger however Captain marvel wouldn't age so You know longevity of the relationship, I guess Because I think that it's and and again before chat gets up in arms is no doubt they have because of the delay This is not like definitely This is very much um This is very much a a a a tenuous decision that I'm making I am I am legit Like kind of conflicted on this but I think That is what I would go with if I had to commit to it not just threaten it, but if I had to commit to it That's what I would do That's who I would do I think you have a right there It's it's not an easy question chat. I don't think you can judge a person for trying to answer it I also think that these are good super chats by the way, but I I kind of think like they uglyfied The actress for the part of rose tico right with the outfit in the hair and everything Definitely, uh a piece of information. That's important check But I think but I think that they did their damned hardest to make brie larson look as attractive as possible every scene in captain marvel So I think that does weight it to some degree and was this Like one fucking you that's it or is it like dating them fully? well I I hate to sound I I hate to sound like so like a super gaming But I guess it depends on like their personalities and stuff Well the question from the super chat was because it's dating Yeah, because it's dating so that implies over a a period of time seeing them regularly And from what we see most of the rose has the superior character I think so too But and even when you're dating most of the time you spend with them will not actually be ball steep in that pussy So you're gonna have to it is a very real thing that you have to put up with the things that they say and do and You know and I think captain marvel would just be smug and insufferable imagine that you kind of disagree with her She'll zap you Not not that rose tico doesn't zap people too But you know at least hers is from a device rather than her innate abilities as a godlike creature I think and I would say that rose tico at least tries to do the right thing more than captain marvel does Yeah Then again, this is And this is really tough. I can I'll absolutely understand arguments on the other side I'm not super invested in my decision, but I think I can I think that's what I would go with This guy's arguments were so mind-bogglingly stupid She didn't think the people of king's landing were innocent because they didn't revolt And so she burned innocent children to free them from slavery Yeah, I mean that ended with I'm agreeing that she thought they were innocent anyway, so Uh more I can't wait for the 24 hour gadelb rags I watched that pf game with you and adan and I agree that jeff was bad writing because the dm made it too grim dark I agree with jeff Jeff was the unicorn Oh, well, I said I agree that jeff was bad writing the dm made it too grim dark um I I don't jeff made it too grim. Does he mean bill who was the dm? I mean, I well, I think I I've said I've made the criticism that when Every every fight that you encounter is some super other planar other otherly planar Monstrosity horror eldritch kind of abomination when they're all like that it's kind of Yeah It loses its appeal It's like it's like in a video game of every Every item you find is some crazy magical enchanted prophecy induced Enhanced ring of some crazy property, you know, it loses its grounding sort of um But I mean there there was a lot of good aspects to it There were some bad ones but Hmm Uh also high rags, but anyways guys Also, I just want to I I finish the sequel Uh to I Will Survive called born to be alive um Judy a year later nick Nick leaves judy and he returns a year later To talk with her begging her for forgiveness that he walked down on her and didn't support her Uh during her time of need and distress And he comes to discover that judy has taken a a lesbian lover uh a vixen in fact And he in a in a fit of uh Moment of rage nick accidentally uh shoves her and causes her injury and it ends with um Judy basically dumping nick shoving him out the door and the last page which is the only page in color Uh, she says she's better now much better and that's where it ends so I guess the person who wrote this comic really didn't like nick wild Because he kind of gets shafted in both of these so This is very interesting Smaller and rags cannot be a part of the fandom menace. You're not fanboy enough and thank goodness for that Well, except lord the rings sadly also high wags Hello, I think there'd be a time where we consider ourselves fanboys, but Yeah, depends on what we're talking about as I've said the the most valuable love is love that is conditional And star wars turned into something poopy and therefore I lost my adoration for it. Mm-hmm Please don't step on snack then god step on snack sad Right then I think it's about the bible verse All right Dear moeller the other day I was grouchy about having to work another several 12 hour shifts all weekend And this woman told me I should smile. I never felt so threatened and unsafe in my own work environment. What should I do? Prime reporter to the authorities. Yeah, uh, does she have a motorbike? Or any kind of vehicle? Find a way about all the other people that she said should smile Yeah, and then you have the ability to electrocute people with your bare hands I need to know these things before I can advise you on what's next, but uh, there's technically yes with static electricity true So there's this movie called captain marvel. It has a how-to guide on dealing with these people You'll find it in these special features deleted scenes. Uh, hopefully just give that a gander and uh If jay watches lord the rings and you confirm it will he finally be made a host or at least a permanent recurring guest jay objectively makes the best event um Watching lord the rings is what you need to do to be consistent on the podcast like that's But once he gets that baseballs is boring though. Yeah, he's kind of You're gonna have to make up for it a lot. It's not just watching lord the rings at this point. It's gonna be a lot of things But all those off Maybe he can Hi rags Hey And mohler. Oh Hero high should become a guest I don't know who that is I don't either Uh, this guy's logic was so bad. I volunteered for ra to throw me off a roof. Also. Hi wags Hello You'll be happy to know I've been breaking down the past e-faps into individual audio clips for meme dialogue to minimize requests for voice clips in future God. Oh wow Sounds extensive. That is a lofty task Um all viruses are immune to antibiotics All right. Okay. I don't know learn that. I didn't know that I think joker's third act from dancing down the stairs onward would have been better if cut down felt like it dragged and really took me out of the movie Really? I didn't feel that I kind of uh, I was very much Going every every bit of it because uh, he felt Like a character who was finally able to do whatever he wanted and that The juxtaposition of how happy he was compared to how sad I was I was able to revel in it for a little bit with him like He's having fun. It's been so horrible up to this point. And then the police thing happens, which is a nice sort of Slide right back into reality hit in the face. Then you pretty much get to the show. So I don't seem to work for me I'd have to Yeah Fraggs, I know the dictionary is bad sometimes but the definition of obfuscate is misleading and Confusing that's fair enough I have a super chat. I give it a high five. Yeah. Yeah Sexual harassment And someone's just super chat that alone Or in rags, what do you think of creep show? Never saw it. I don't know what that is Dairy uh, Danny went dragon postal That's a good one Yeah, that's a good one Dairy uh, Danny went dragon postal That's an understatement thoughts on jay getting kicked around on facebook Oh, right. Do you know about uh, yeah, no reason why you'd know about this rags. Um So jay was a part of a facebook group that was Apparently created in aid of basically being like talking about tlj without being a dick or star wars Uh, so like just just kind of about it. Nobody gets angry. No was insults everything's fine And like one uh, gradually they've been getting more and more like aggressive toward anybody who dislikes the film and then it was like this post that was like You're a asshole who thinks the film isn't good. You're And then apparently jay called them out for it like this Really not what this place is meant for and then like he got a response from someone saying like if you think that you don't really You could really be And then I think he got booted is what he said Yeah That oh, okay that reverse toxic fandom That's kind of what we would be getting at like they're they're obviously going to be um, wow, jeez opposites to these scenarios The people who are like overly obsessed with how good a thing is Because you see you see it all the time right like the straw man always be like, oh these people think That themes don't exist. These people think that visuals aren't important to a visual media Like who are you talking about where these quotes coming from? Yeah, what are you you're just pulling this out of some imagined version of me that you've completely fabricated in your head Uh, if you search rags on youtube rags the worst youtuber by patricia taxon is the fourth result What are your thoughts on it also? Hi rags Hello, uh terrible video Now we're the overtime really we might get around to it later low priority Oh look youtube It is currently the fourth result, but uh, that'll last that much longer. No, I don't think so um Rooftops are cool, but de fenestration is cooler um Uh the act of throwing someone out a window There's a word for that. All right Well, I I can I can see the reasoning with the loud crash in the linear Glass everywhere certainly more spectacular I don't know how taxing can think he's a woman because calling rags an intellectual coward when he won't even talk to you guys takes actual Well, he was willing to talk as long as rags wasn't here Yeah, that's the thing he wouldn't come on if I was there And as we saw today I'm super unreasonable I wouldn't say that I'd say you hide your bigotry between the senses Oh, yeah, that's right. You have to you have to listen in between the lines Very you're a very bigoted bigot Double bad my goat Uh, the treachery of the long knives was correct I'm not sure how to react made me think of the night of the long knives Oh, I don't I guess it's a game of thrones thing and I don't I don't know over that one Hey Mola any computer gear you guys recommend? uh Computer gear I've had good luck with audio technica headsets. Um, I think logitech makes really good keyboards and mice Um, especially the g600, which is the mouse that I use the one that I will always recommend probably um Looking for gear a g-sync monitors are extremely How do you use I use an at 2020 usb plus That's literally the microphone like fucking everybody has now like you have it. I have it really good. Yeah, it has it Fringy has it wolf has it It's a hundred twenty bucks. So good. It's like it's plug it in and it's top of the line consumer grade that doesn't You know go into a tier of money. That's kind of ridiculous like uh, oh, yeah The next one up is the It's called gashel gashel. I think it's a podcaster microphone. I think uh h3 and But I mean, I'm I'm not opposed to the idea of upgrading this one to get something better But this one is really good and I've been very pleased with it Yeah, it's for like I guess computer gear that's more specific than like peripherals. It's just gonna you know, you know how it works. It's like good value performance for money has It changes every year pretty much depending on what around who's releasing what um Yeah, I wouldn't be the best person to ask for up to dating for me, but plenty of websites probably have good recommendation Uh, the chat glitch slash slipped by last e-fap. So asking here. What was your favorite instance of Arthur's laugh? He's got so many my favorite was the laugh that picks up in the background during the penny flash black Flash flash back Uh, my one's probably the one where he's laughing out of sync jokes in the comedy club Huh gives me a big sense of just how much he's struggling to get it I liked his laugh after he uh got fired and he was leaving that cuts off really quick because I thought the whole punch out thing was actually Here you go I was actually kind of laughing along because that was the legit funny thing that he said If you could make one star wars movie one marvel movie and one dc movie, what would they be about and why? Holy shit That's for me add you I guess that's like six different ads uh um also high rags Hello the one star wars movie would probably be Assuming I can scrap full trilogy give me one movie to try and crush um a big story about Some of the things that happened after or maybe just do something distant in a other part of the world Have some fun the marvel one Um, I kind of always wanted a movie between infinity war and civil war going over what earth was like however many years if it's one or two Where you had a team that was government oriented and sent out versus a vigilante team and how cap and iron man The dynamic of finding that I wanted to see what was going on with that And that's for dc movie I Really okay with anything good. I don't really have a preference for dc What about you rags? What about me? What was the question again? If you could make one star wars movie marvel movie a dc. What would they be why? um I do they have to be In addition to what we already have or you can make your own rules with this one Um, I'd probably I'd rather make it. I think I'd put us make a star wars movie over in the other ones um, and it would be Between it would probably be about some it'd probably be concerning the political strife of reforming essentially a Galactic government after the empire has been Substantially weakened and all the interesting stuff that happened as a result of that all the conflicts that might occur Because you know when you talk about the scale of this sort of thing happening There's obviously going to be problems that arise from all right We have I mean it's a good thing that we did in this case, but we did create a power vacuum We need to fill it efficiently and quickly And it's not going to go over well with everybody so You know it would be very star trekky in terms of negotiations and things like that and There would be you know, potentially renegade groups that go against whatever But that that's that would be something that I would probably the most interested in creating of those three Uh, what's your opinion on the harry potter movies? Don't really have many strong perspectives on those ones. I watched them all at least once. I thought they were neat Yeah, they were fine. I guess but they probably weren't Honestly, yeah, I've not really given a critical eye to them Yeah I didn't really care for them My unsolid sunday nerd row big boy in 2019 Unsolid son That referencing My sunday My solid sunday sundays aren't solid. They're like they're suck wits There'll be some kind of reference. We're missing Maybe I I guess I just don't get it Um, molly, you're a damn cool dude. Thank you rags is a babe Yeah, boy Gary is freaking awesome too reminder the island of dr. Moro from 1996 might be right up your alley. It's an entertainingly bad movie I I've heard about it. I was gonna say I think it's been suggested before also be by the same suit Oh my Vulcan would rape martin and love it wolf Oh, wow. I didn't mention that it was funny Uh Defenestration for dany I don't know. I mean she's dead already. So throwing out our windows. I mean you do it funny because she'd be all limp in there Uh, game of thrones needed more foreboding with the events leading up to the night king and Daenerys Like a sense of inevitability to night king victory and Daenerys' fall both were like proof that happened Oh, oh both were like poof that happened. Yeah, I got it. Um Yeah for everything honestly just for everything everything needed more time It was too rushed It's like it's like batwoman things are so rushed you have no time to get investment in a lot of the events characters China should be reduced to hand borders Don't understand. I don't know what those are, but I like the idea of reduced Finally watched the screw steam stream on wags his channel. Why is jim stealing so fat and stupid I mean because well because he probably doesn't have good diet and he done the exercise is the answer the first one He's not stupid he's just He's got blind spots. I think he attributes things to other to things that I don't think it's logic necessarily It follows a lot of the time D&D rolled natural one when making season eight and nine out of game of thrones Reroll reroll Have any of you considered posting on bit shoot? It's a new creator focused video hosting platform designed to give youtube some competition Yeah, I um thought about it certainly. Yeah Um, it'll definitely be the the backup if things go awry on youtube If the choice is watching you go through every Super chat since e-fap one or listening to that massive you had on this e-fap again. I vote 42 hours of Hmm, maybe we can make the topic interesting. I don't Be a way to make you something I'll do it. I'll be fine. I'll be great Sorry not nine bad type or maybe not but it was so bad. I couldn't exist I think he meant resist, but yes resist An e-fap excellent. This is just what I need right now I've been feeling down in the dumps lately. Someone snuck onto our farm and killed aura and Oh, you're nice corn Yes, all of the nice corn was ruined Oh, not the nice corn. I mean the bad corn is still there. They didn't do anything with the Nice corn left the bad corn and they cut down the nice corn Bragg's refused to answer my question. He is paid off by evils. I ask all of the e-faps How does owl swim through tree not how owl fly also high rags Hello Isn't pretty obvious. He's you know, but one one wing forward and Squish past all the leaves pulling you forward a little bit on the little twigs Um, you do the other arm slash Wing and rinse and repeat swimming through a tree nailed it Crack open a cold f with the boys for Game of Thrones sands is in smash. Love you fellas. Have a good night I hope I'm not too annoying free honk-conk Free honk-conk That pisses profile Dave is the reasonable extremist No, that's fair enough. I like it. Uh just woke up passed out from from what chat's telling me about the guy It was probably good for my blood pressure Laugh my ass off at Coppa Coppola joining Scorsese and dabbing on boulding twitter soy guzzlers like him Uh dab Mola are the Welsh even white? Yeah, mostly I mean think That would be my my assumption from from what I see around these parts, but you get all kinds of colors down here, too Every color under under under the wonderful rainbow including purple people like Thanos are welcome here I just want to just know one of those gauntlets. Mola are you finished with game criticism? I don't know I uh, I mean if ever there's a reason for it to come up on eFap I'll obviously do it and I would like to make more game criticism videos one day It's just other things that sort of priority and Takes me a while to get any video done because I want to Go there covered to the newest standards. I'm sort of getting to but I have been doing um redrafting for part three of tfa. I just uh I don't know that I'll be able to start editing that one rather than working on a dark fate video because I'll be seeing that Very soon Hey rags you requested additional information regarding the question I sent last eFap to clarify the critiques that your peen and or butthole would give you are completely objective and unbiased All right, I instantly know what you're talking about. Um For those of you who are not aware he is or for he that it was asked of us Would we rather have a penis that Is constantly critiquing offering critique on our love making Or our anus Would constantly offer us critique about every about about us every time we critique something I chose the but tentatively Uh because of uh because of lack of some clarification um I will say if can other people hear this voice if so then it will be the butthole if Other people cannot hear The voice then i'll go with the penis if it's because if if I have someone giving me objective information on how to better Fuck someone that I can instantly apply into giving someone else a better time and enjoying myself more I'll take that. Yeah, that's pretty good in a way. Yeah, that's actually like excellent. That'd that'd that'd be great but um If I also someone offering offering me criticism Um, it's probably definitely not going to be something that takes me out of the moment too much I'm still going to be having the time of my life But if it if it is something that other people can hear I wouldn't want it to be the penis because I don't want the other one other person there Having my penis speak to me while we're you know going at it So I would go with my butthole I'll say is there saying only you can hear it then in that case. I would rather have my penis offer criticism Uh during the love making so what i'm doing the horizontal hokey pokey. I don't know how to do it the best way possible Always looking to improve my game And if there's any more clarifications Otherwise we'll alter his answer, but that does seem to be pretty extensive. There you go. Oh, yeah Uh, I clean my carpets. Hello wags. Also that guy Missed last week wags did murray deserve it Murray the guy on the talk show No Glad you said Wait, there are people who say that murray deserved to be killed. I wonder what raw would say Raw would say raw would ask if he's gay or not But I mean we we you you know that some people have Some crazy tizmy takes on joker I bet there are people out there who are like, yeah murray deserves to die Because he was part of a class allegedly or something whatever, but no obviously murray didn't deserve to be killed Uh, hi rags. Hello. Hi molla. Hello molla. If you ever have time you should check vinland saga It's an anime such manga. It has a character that is basically welsh tywin Huh Aren't go wrong with that combo Coppola and scorsese eating these capish Babies is great Oh, cape shit babies is great. James Gunn crying and posting tumblr notes lol Off my house off go film captain boomerang scenes with polka dot man. You lose a kid diddler I mean You didn't make guardians one and two. That was pretty awesome films Uh, and he didn't diddle any kids as far as I know Yeah, it was it was some weird stuff with going to like was it, uh Deemed like really yeah really weirdly themed parties, but that's completely different than the act itself. I mean That yeah, not even on the same plane the thought and the action there's all we've always We've always got to make sure to draw a distinction between those two But I'll agree. It's just like what I was there a theme You know, it's just like a what um I mean, yeah, he he he got fired and reinstated and uh as for Coppola and scorsese coming after Cape shit films like good for them. They make films that are just better than everyone else's apparently Or at least marvel Fine Authorities on film and can't possibly not take their word 100 seriously. Hey rags Say what? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I like I like completely actually phased out for a moment Sorry, can you say that one more time? I'm sorry. I said hey rags. Oh, hi. Hey there Uh, you're a quality video a plus plus. Oh, thank you very much. I'm glad you liked it. Also. Hi, mona. Hello Uh, have you watched the videos of the xr guys getting yanked off the top of the trains the other day? I'll offer a solid 20 minutes watching it The xr. I have no idea what that's referencing Yeah I don't know if that's referring to xr Hmm. Hi rags and mola. Hello. Hello. Hi there favorite black and white films um I hate to be Narick on this one, but probably 12 angry men and citizen kane and hmm I don't I can't remember too many that I've seen off the top of my head bico I I can't remember many that I've had I don't know. I I'm gonna have to withhold judgment for the moment Have you seen judge dread 1995 and or dredged Dread 2012. What do you think of them? If so, hi rags. I really liked dread 2012 Have you seen the uh, Stallone dread film? I have not I've heard it's me me We should that that could work for d-fat movies actually. Yeah Yeah, that's it's uh, I remember being funny, uh, but yeah The newer dread was was so much different like Night and day, um Someone's saying birth of a nation. I've totally forgot that one Oh for black and white stuff. I I'm always a I'm always a sucker for a happy ending, you know I've put broccoli in spaghetti bolognese Is this is the person we can trust right? I mean I That doesn't seem like it'd be bad. I mean, I don't see why broccoli and pasta wouldn't go together like Seems reasonable to me. I don't think that's unreal. Yeah, I think that's that's not unreasonable Uh beating a dead horse is bad unless it is undead I agree That's fair enough Well, beating a dead horse isn't bad if it's just a dead horse. You're just Applying pressure to dead flesh True rags. Have you read the sequel? Oh wait. Yeah, so you did I did Uh more like lame of thrones. Am I right? absolutely freaking aim of throne Wait, did my super chat call out to susan when the stream went down not go through shame I'm sorry. Uh, we should introduce erica taxon to raw's roof It seems like everybody's going to raw's roof. It's gonna be a lot of people. There's a huge queue Who would win bobby hill or bot simpson? Oh bot simpson easily Have you seen? Yeah, I feel like I feel like Bart Simpson's got the bloodlust in him And he can tank so much like he gets strangled regularly in a very vicious man survivors I'm thinking that plus all of his ingenuity bobby's going down Now, how would you feel if spider-man had a crush on captain marvel in the mcu? I read a rumor about that the other day and felt sick hashtag praise the dawn Well, clearly they're doing something with him and mj, right? So that'll be weird if he had a crush on captain marvel mm-hmm I have to see what they do I hope not. What's there to like like what's what's there to like? What about captain marvel the mcu? No about captain marvel. No, like actually tell me what they're like. That is the job of the sequel now to uh To create something likable about her. That's the challenge. That's why i'm kind of interested to see what they had to bring Um The pose we'll just have to find out Do more efap jack box. I love that we can interact Uh, we're not against that. Yeah I do want to play that game again. I want to see if it's like I'll test out a few more things. Maybe try reduce the players down or something I don't know what it is. Yeah, I enjoyed the game I thought the game was fun as well. It's it's fun, but I I I do feel like it's really heavily weighted to the trade Not the traders the uh aliens I agree with that. Um unless in the unlikely event that we got really unlucky four types of a row with the bioscanner and miscommunication in the Maybe aliens get can get screwed over really easily, but I would assume It is just by by a stool Uh, your thoughts on the last samurai my favorite. Hi rags. I really like it Yeah, I love as well. I don't know what to say about accuracy I'm sure somebody probably has a breakdown somewhere on youtube, but uh, I remember really enjoying it Yeah A stone wall shad keep asking him until he gives up stones Not sure what to make of that stone wall shad keep asking him Hmm I'm not sure Imola tom lancas james bond just saying it would finish andrew's arc Oh man, I'd have to see some Some tests. I don't know if you could pull off being james bond from everything I've seen of him in Also, hey rags come play in my hello show time come play in my 40k show sometime Who's that? No, I'm actually I'm actually prepping another thing to replace tails. So we will um, I might not have the time Then again with however all the times we get delayed doing nazi vampires Of course palpy was alive this whole time and building star destroyers this whole time. Duh It was foreshadowed final trailer tomorrow. Get ready Oh my god rags. We got we got a star walls trailer and batwoman Oh, we do we're so blessed with such amazing content so regularly Um Molo, when are we getting efap merch a shoot of full of tizmy references and general massivity is required Again, uh, we want to uh, it would be great. Um Looking into it. I swear More more things time discussion thing happened, but uh, even I would I wouldn't mind that at all No, same same I'm down with it Everybody listen to numer and Empist off of tools new album. You won't regret it, especially if you're a real long man because they're 12 plus minutes Rags. I had no idea you love china a y jong wa That means yeah, I figured that meant something tizmy When is sinatra says coming on I don't know who that is He's a youtuber. Uh, he wouldn't be a bad guest Uh, today's guest made me want to find a room full of younglings or a village of sand people Uh, I see through the lies of the ha ha he he poo poo master yoda See through the lies of the ha ha he he poo poo No, that's a Jedi master Who sent the chat about joker's last act dot being perfect? I want a dave dow Uh, was that somebody's super chat? I can't remember Uh, let me say the last act joker's last act. Oh, I he said hello. He said it wasn't paced well Right. Well, I I'm gonna go ahead and not give the name raw just because your rooftop, you know There's enough people on it for now. We don't need it. We don't need more It's fine It'll be either a sad or scary day when rod doesn't have a roof high enough to eat someone off I don't know what it'll mean Don't know what it'll mean the culture of effect. Why why live? Why go through this charade? Hi rags. Hello. I just looked at that taxon vid and felt the need to donate to you. It's just so bad Oh, thanks All right It is pretty bad, uh I don't know how it ranks. We still need to do that. Um, I think like stream thing I think I've actually got the link for it now where we can rank like the content creators we covered. So that'll be fun, but uh Oh, yeah Uh, nick, I can't believe I'm gonna be a father judy. Yeetus the fetus Oh Now apparently No in this I picked this up from the comic No rabbit has ever had an abortion before. She's the first rabbit to have an abortion Yeah Mola tell wolf we miss him also tell him to embrace the prequels halo four and nickel back Of course, I will make sure he's a By the way, does the idea that hitler is the worst human being Where does the idea that hitler is the worst human being come from starling was way way worse and all you ever hear about a nazi's and hitler Um, I think it's the whole holocaust aspect of it. Yeah, you know how bad the camps were themselves and I mean a lot of it is optics I think I mean, obviously they're both very terrible But I think hitler story it it tugs on the heartstrings a little bit more because it's attached directly to like a world war and invading countries and jenet You know all that all that nasty terrible stuff uh these are the I was once throw This lispy queer from a root is the lispy queer the thing from um, even crowded stuff with Uh, carlos maza lispy queer one of the things Yeah, that was the one. Yeah Yeah, the context is him being fucked fucking branded you asshole. Oh, yeah, it's all gonna about the um PSA sit shit his opinion about joker on a live stream a few months ago few months ago What he said the story was cliche obvious and shallow the writing I don't read all of that really Well, he's wrong very wrong we will uh Uh, maybe maybe we'll be able to talk to him you said a few oh, sorry a live stream a few moments ago not a few months ago Oh Yeah Oh well I don't win them all you know the hate mongers of the toxic brood are russian assets using objective film criticism to So disunity and division into american society hillary quinton Take these here dollory do's favorite sub genre of metal also high wags Hello favorite sub sub genre of mill. Um Uh I'm not sure. I'm I'm not like huge into metal I like I like a lot of quick and speedy stuff Uh for me is symphonic metal I love what would that be like so like Metal combining with like a symphony filled with all kinds of instruments, I guess Yeah, oh, yeah. Yeah, I I'm big in that. Um, I really like electric light orchestra. They did a lot of stuff like that I'm gonna see if I can get Uh do an e-fap on the ih everything jaw podcasts Also, you haven't seen uh, well, I don't do a podcast on a podcast. It's gonna do that would take forever I only ever do like Nippets and the last thing we want is to watch someone for like 10 minutes as a Section well, we just don't say anything because nothing dead if you know what I mean Yeah, it would have to be a particularly offensive thing Also, you haven't seen creep show. It's a good horror movie. Watch it for your own movie thing with rags before october ends Well, I enjoy watching movies with uh, mawler I I enjoy watching movies with especially on spooky ween Yeah, spooky ween. Do we need to we need to watch like the fly is kind of like horror in a way Oh, yeah, we need to watch like a proper horror one either a very good one or a very bad one I'll I'll want to watch darkness falls with you. See if you think it's We can do that. Absolutely We'll we'll sort that out before spooky ween ends Rags we need to walk outside and stub your toe on a box containing an mg 42 Do you keep it for yourself take to a museum or do you check the bushes to make sure there isn't an atf agent hiding in them? I'd always see check the bushes um, there The legal complexity of what happens if you find a machine gun is Raises many questions um uh That would depend I I will tell you I'm not sure what I would do But I I will say that I would be extremely tempted to just not report it I would be like I would be very tempted to just not report it Yeah, I probably just walk away I feel like oh god a god In britain we uh, we get spooked by simple spoons. So imagine the error Um, I'm sitting in my green room in youtube studios when susan and her assistant walk in me susan patricia Hey, it's mrs. Watchkey Susan oh patty. That's fine Now ra, what's with the clown makeup patricia? Yeah, didn't you hear some guy some gay video essayist got thrown off a roof today by some clowns Susan but wait susan patricia. I'm sure he's heard me. No, I hadn't I don't believe in that I don't believe in anything patricia. See that's what i'm saying. They'll go crazy if you bring this guy out Susan it'll work. It'll work. We'll give it a go. Now. Remember ra, we do a clean show no n words No talk about israel. Okay me Susan you go right up after desmond is amazing me. Oh, I love desmond Susan good good. Someone will come get you me. Oh once we'll see susan When you bring me out you do it on the rooftop I Mean in hollywood parties diddling isn't rare. That's what I've heard That's what I've heard. I've heard when it comes to that hollywood stuff that there is some Freaky bad stuff that happens That is no good very bad Yeah, it's pretty sad how how fucked up all of it is from whence that I like my women how I like my wine seven years old and locked in my cellar All right Excellent choice rags. I choose the peen as well. Also good work hunting down that info about morning stars That was my other chat from the efep Thanks. Yeah, it's I think it was an interesting question I think a lot of people think they know the answer but they don't So it was good to kind of get clarification on that Uh fellow sleep midstream missed your response in regards to skull faced bookseller honda san. Please repeat um Missed your response in regards to skull faced bookseller honda san. Do does that sound familiar to you at all in any way? Hmm Skull faced bookseller honda san Skull faced bookseller Honda san. Yeah, I have no idea what that's referring to Is it an anime again? I always assume it's an anime. I have I have no idea What does chat say? I legit have no idea Anime about a bookseller and news What is an anime? Ra on efep every roofer toss or erat poetry Makes sense, but is it about good rat or just rat in general For the for the mimaroonies mohler. Are you on your way rags to wear to what? Thank you. You wonderfully and beautifully twisted souls of men All right, then. I mean, yes, I'm glad to provide such introspect um Hell wolf the kingdom of heaven is trash. Hi rags Hello, um, I haven't seen kingdom of heaven in a long time. I'd like to Watch it again. Yeah, I think I think wolf is very pro kingdom of heaven I haven't seen in ages so I can't really say it's been it has been a long time I remember liking it, but that was years ago years A spider-man dumps mj for captain marvel racism We'll have to see Who bloody knows Watch killer bean forever for efep movie. Would you rather have sex with mj or um Captain marvel Is mj of legal age? I was going to say right? I'm assuming she is in real life I don't know if she's in the film though. I in real life then Well, okay. I'm assuming the character was of age um, I mean I just don't want to fuck captain marvel What if there's a bag on it head though? She's still ain't got no ass Yeah, but you don't need to use don't look look don't look keep your eyes away. Lookings. Lookings half of the battle But look at looking is Like it's a big part of it Yeah, I'm gonna close your eyes Well, if there's a bag on the bag on your head, there you go. You don't have to close your eyes. You can't see there's a bag on my head Of example of undead horse to beat tlj is a good film arguments. They never seem to die kill it already We've still got like four huge Videos about how tlj is still good to go through we haven't managed to make it through this year of efep We have disappointed the audience Don't worry. Give us a few more years and we'll get there Uh, taxon is completely self unaware. She complains about rags not giving a fair interpretation of the resonance argument Arguments whether or not that's true. That's what she's doing to rags Yeah, I think that's applicable But when you're gonna get pewds on I don't know if like why would we have pewdie pie? He's kind of beauty. Are you kidding? Kind of low low low fry low fish small fish in a big pond, you know, I'd rather get guests that like have an audience Yeah, I suppose that's fair enough Like, oh, yeah, I guess he has some interesting opinions, but it's like it's really about the viewers Oh, what you can This pewdiepie guy Doesn't he just like let's play minecraft the generic thing you could do on youtube Pewdiepie, please come on you fat Did you guys ever address some of the comments on that ih everything podcast video? I don't think we did. I don't know if we did. I didn't know if I didn't know if there was anything of interest there really but Still we we got the the main thing addressed. I suppose Uh, you guys miss me yet from the night king I'd say yes I miss the night king. Everything was better with you Uh skullface bookseller hondasan is a manga slash anime. I recommend as a retail massive. I think more would enjoy I figured because the name made no sense. It was probably a I guess the bookseller part is where you go. Ah retail, of course Um Braggs, would you rather fuck a male death claw or captain marvel a male death claw? I was gonna say that's pretty easy. I'm surprised they made that so easy We're doing like all these difficult ones and you just throw in the male death cause All right male death claw that brings us to the end Holy monolium. How long was that anyway seven hours see and to really that felt like ah nice a normal sized episode That's a little long for me. I feel like the the I feel like the uh debate dragged on a little bit A little bit. Yeah, I'll give you that I I'm usually Not so encouraged to want a debate to end. I just didn't feel like it was really progressing that Which is a very common reason for a person to want a debate to end Um Still glad we had it We got to experience what it was like to speak to somebody who really did like season eight Which I thought they were fantasy people, but they exist and have arguments um So that yeah that pretty much leaves me with saying um, thank you all very much for the kind donations Uh, there's loads of memes And I think next week we're gonna be doing a joker stream again Played the joker. Um Plenty of fun to be had with that one. Um, I'm not sure how we're gonna do this this meme stream thing If it's gonna be like on a sunday or if we'll try and double it up No, yeah, um If I know ahead of time, it'll be fine as long as I know ahead of time because we're gonna have a lot of shits Let's uh, yeah, that's bad. Just a lot of stuff to go. I know there's a lot of people out there who like I've done fan art I've done meme videos. I've done means like I've got a shit ton Jules is probably collected And if it isn't shown on this meme stream, then just try me on the next stream or the next episode It depends on how fast they're compiled I'm looking at them now. I'm just like holy I've got this enormous list of fucking links Oh This brings us to the end that's what you think Uh, if you want to prove bennie off as an awful person a lazy narcissistic man child with evidence The dragon demands there's a lot of content that you can use Uh, not too it I wasn't too hell bent on that because I don't think I've ever said they're bad people or anything That was actually one of the first things he said when he came into the call. He was like annoyed the people saying Like bad people I've never heard that and if it is we're definitely we're obviously not here to defend the morality of their writing Yeah, like I don't think the bad people were fucking up the right and I would rather attribute it to a mistake laziness Like they fucked up or they were apathetic that sort of thing instead of being I don't assume they were malicious I don't assume they wanted to upset everybody Oh, yeah, I don't think so. I think that they probably thought what they were doing was good And that's part of the problem Uh get mumkey jones matica as guest Yeah, I don't I don't I don't I would love to have mumkey on It'd be interesting Some I don't know what mumkey's up to these days, but um, I don't know. I hope he's doing well though Is a tragedy what happened to him? Uh, what really gets the noggin jogging with joker is that no one brought up all those sport teams using rock and roll part two after gary glitters arrest so One more time what really gets the noggin jogging with joker is that no one brought up all those sport teams using rock and roll Part two after gary glitters arrest uh gary glitters God is there a song in the film that gary glitters sang and they used and it's awkward because it's like Uh convicted of something I need more information because I can't remember and I don't want to say something too drastic without getting information I heard something relating to that but I mean, what's your ability to separate? I guess something an artist does from the quality of the song that's used because like if someone writes an amazing song can nobody use that song because of What someone else did regarding it or? Is seen I guess Oh, yeah, yeah, I know the song. Yeah Um, I meant for a meme. Could you say are you on your way and have rags reply to where to what she is? Oh, okay, so Oh, okay We go Are you on your way? To where to what? All right, there we go um And finally, uh What's wrong with me metica my long man? Why no answer? I'm guessing they're asking what's wrong with metica. I don't necessarily have anything wrong I seriously don't matter what come on come on e-fap, but if he did I'm up for it. I'm pretty much up for anybody coming on honestly, you know Everyone gets to come on Quinton Quinton review. Quinton Quinton, please come on e-fap explain yourself Explain everything quinton could help Um But yeah, all right, so we'll see you folks next week for probably talking about joker with who knows what guests I'm not actually sure of it right now, but I hope you had some fun And uh, this will be up on moola soon enough with a possible trailer reaction for star wars And an episode of batwoman being super uh, super cut. So yeah, it's plenty to come Thanks for watching and good night Layer white on e-fap, that's that's a possibility too. I'm not against any guests and haha I caught it before the stream ended E-fap done watching joker again right now life is good. Excellent raw. There you go. Both of them done. Okay, actually good night now Yeah, man. I'm I'm glad. Watch joker. It's great. Yes, you prove that do it again seven times