 So since yeah, my talk is about this the last talks of the day So I'd rather the start on time. Good afternoon everyone and thanks for coming and my name is Jessica John I'm a software engineer at the Intel open-source technology Center working on the Yaktu projects so Any of you that's a it's currently using Yaktu projects And then there's I'm guessing rest of you is more Interesting as a the development tool size. That's what we're doing there Okay, so my talk is about this the modernized the the development tools There's a to allow you to achieve the development anywhere. So, you know, there's a with the embedded The Yaktu projects this is one Linux foundation as a projects and you heard in this The today's keynote Simon mentioned does a yeah the starting of the project is trying to this achieves There's a standardized the way for people that's to build and customize their embedded software There's a distributions and the BSPs So the Yaktu projects currently that's a we are we just released a last Friday on the 18th, which is our 1.5 release. So that's Six released. So we have these six months. There's a release cadence So currently that's pretty much the Yaktu projects overall is becoming that's a de facto There's a the build system or the way for people to build their embedded softwares but there's a To allow the Yaktu projects provide you the capability the feature that's one Aspects of the Yaktu projects and on the other end does to help people especially software engineers There's a give them the right tools and continue improving the tools to allow them to efficiently does Doing this a software development is also one of the goal of the Yaktu project So this talks going to yeah focus on that was the latest efforts So we are trying to achieving that goal continuously improving and achieving that goal So my agenda is this I'm going to this start give you some contacts What are the the feedbacks we hear as far as the how to continue improving our tools offerings and Then there's a I'm going to talk about to this Yeah, there's activities. There's in that area. That's a yeah Where this currently doesn't even put resource in all this doing this approval concepts works and starting this the the way that's toward in this Modernized the tools offerings allows people to achieve this development anywhere So there may be three pillars of this Yaktu projects offered The the core is the build system, which is this the big big so basically that's the engine allows you to this Yeah to chunks out this the customized as the embedded systems that you want to this build for your device for your targets and Then the second one is the contents. So Yaktu projects this we have this The layer this approach so in in the core we have this OE core so that's the other fundamentals and all this the features the additions and All the the customizations is through this Extra layers the meta layers. There's the people this companies add and all the Yaktu projects ad categorize them So that's the layer approach and also this all the content part contains that the BSPs There's a way how people and also supports so the third pillar is this is what we said I just mentioned this the developer experience is very core to the Yaktu projects because it's not just the build system the contents allows you to build out and We truly believe that they provide the right tools for people to do to help people do their jobs more efficiently It's also a part of a mission as well so the the whole project is a Linux foundation projects and so it's a pure open source and that's Give you this. Yeah, it's if you think like it's at the big globe and also this the Modulized approach all this the framework we set up the project the layers and lots of things so then this allows us to keep adding this Yeah, missing pieces and improving this. Yeah connections of the pieces so keeps the Keeps keeps the whole globes continue evolving and growing and so there's a people can continue benefit from the projects And also those people can continue contributes to the projects so with that said and Definitely, there's a Yaktu projects already gets Already, there's lots of Tractions in the industry, especially the embedded world, but there's still there's some limitations of this The current usage model for this people using Yaktu There's a yeah the best is the single user because already does the open this embedded and the big big is Target for the personal build system And also this everything is this for people. That's definitely need for the embedded Linux so it start with Linux so currently it is only support as there's a Linux is your there's a main developing host environment so with that and also there's a With the more and more adoptions of the actual projects and we starting hearing this Feedbacks of people comes to us and asking us this. Okay, so I my personally There's a camera a big big build, but for a group of people I'm working with Especially with a larger corporate or something and people start asking this how to the best Practice to share the bills and especially a district now that's a people are so distributed and was is a distributed groups of Engineers that share the bills allows them collaborate and doing the customization and then as a continue That's improving that this build. So that's one of those Quite questions. That's a we've been asked a lot and the other thing is this We did as a way and we know lots of people there's a especially this when we Attending a conference like you'll see a lot of people this have no problem They even told us don't bother about any user interface. I'm perfect fine Oh with the command line. I'm cool is that and yeah, don't bother Linux is the only thing at times but when we this Expanding this the yachto this award the people using yachto. There's some groups of this engineers. That's they says My there's a mainly there's a working environment. Unfortunately. It's not Linux It's either there's a personal preference some people that's I know this as lots of engineers That's that they prefer to use Mac and others people that so if they have a corporate there's a set up their IT the setup is mainly the windows They say what if then I but my job is require me to develop software for embedded Then there's a what should I do and what how can I take advantage of the yachto projects? So with that bear in mind We start the following this Two projects of one actually there's a one is a new project and one is a improvement of all this Current eclipse plug-in. So we start this a trying to this with this to this Efforts we tries to fill those missing pieces. That's the off the globe So first I'm going to talk about this toaster projects with of You this have exposed or knowing or using yachto projects. You probably have heard this the hop to So basically the hop to is a graphical user interface tools There's a of the big bag allows you to this a customized that you build that's one of the The creation of the tool is the originally there's a one we said that's at the big bag Everything you need to write your recipes and lots of people saying that's a big learning curve And I just want something really quick Kind of like allows me to add a package and the kick off the big big build and then as my image will be updated So that's how we start with this hop to this a quickly give people this allows them to this Bootstraps on the yachto projects and start doing something and Well, that's a they using the hub doing there There's a job or task required they pick up the knowledge So they can switch to the command line to use the full bloom of the big big phage features But then the the hub is based on the GTK So it's a GTK base that the graphical user interface. So definitely that's quite outdated And then there's a one-way set that's a people come to us and oh Do you have a user interface tools allows us to this a kind of collaborate running the build? Better. That's a if this is we can access it over the internet Then the some the hub is out of the picture and continue to investigate in hub It just doesn't make sense. So with that a requirement, especially there's a mainly on this a Tour there's a with the graphical interface to the big big and Allow people to be able to run the build anywhere. That's that doesn't bound to this a Linux this Machines then that's kind of like pretty much give us the idea Maybe that's a for this the future hub. We need to create something web hop So that's yeah, that's a now That's a web hop is the idea and now that the name is called toaster So this give us this. Yeah, definitely much modernized the look and feel and And also this, you know, there's a with the internet application So we just basically there's a build this toaster is as long as the Web-based application. So, you know, this internet already has this a very feature-rich this Frameworks, so we just take advantage of the established as a technology is just at the features in there That's a yacht of this features in there Which is should give us a very this a rage and full bloom. That's applications. That's a many people can benefit and Also, there's a the other that's the mistakes Lesson learned from the hub is it start as we heard people saying Big big command line is just a big learning curve And so then there's a we inside as engineers. We start cooking something that's a graph user interface But we just omit this a one very important part of this hub is a really user needs There's a loss of user interactions tours. So there's no any this design Designer that's involved in this development hub. So then there's definitely there's a big gap That's a of the hub we can introduce as a user interface to user interaction tools and the Usability wise and the flow wise. It's just yeah Lots of things and people give us the feedback is just not intuitive and is yeah, lots of things lots of gaps there So since we said the goal of this the web Yeah Application is our long-term and future. There's a thing that's a features There's a we want to go and so then for this a toaster projects at the beginning on we start engage There's a professional design for firms and also in-house. There's a user interaction. There's a design expert to Yeah, that's doing this this Interviews and so provide us help us build this the roadmap the usage flow and this the user interface So this the web hop is not just purely a replacement of the the hub It's really this we think this we are going to make is this a more like a center There's a like a dashboard the centerpiece of this a tour that allows people to run the build and Provide you this the one thing we think that's a definitely based on this all this Interview with the customer one of the biggest advantage of these toaster projects is which there's a definitely the big big all the command line cannot provide you is the build analyzes there's a capabilities provide you with the web with the way is keep it can present those kind of like data and graphics in All kinds of charts and give you the information and also provide you the visualized of this The build the dependency of the packages the recipes. That's the part that the key part That's a when you there's a really this interacts with this. Yeah The yachto projects the big big lots of people just say that's always a kind of like a black box to me and Yeah, so Toaster definitely can feel that gap So there's a based on this Research works. There's a other design forms. That's a help us then so here are the roadmaps and Identify this a road map and in implementation approach. We are going to take so You know, that's a with the highway system. There's a ramp and there's the freeway So the ramp get you on to the freeway. I did ideally this Yeah, that's a we need to provide So there's a the toaster one of the main goal of the toaster is quickly ramp up the new users to fully take advantage of The yachto projects, but the one of this the challenging is then there's a yeah That's kind of like the whole thing has to be mature enough to this To yeah, that's a allows you to get to there So which does in the first? Incarnation is hard for us to achieve this capability. So we then so we decide on this Yeah, the initial iterations will take this free freeway first this approach so basically this give you this that delivering the existing use case To this existing yachto project users. So this allows at least this first laid the foundation and also does a deliver this Values to the immediate user existing users and also attracts people Yeah, contributes this early on and help us build up the ramp and build up the whole freeway system and The implementation wise we are going to this do the inside out So, but what does it mean is we are going to focus on the core capability first So this is the core is allows you to specify and to run a build and also this as mentioned That's the biggest. There's an improvement. There's all the values. There's a we heard based on the community survey is Yeah, allows to people that's doing the build analysis and also the image analysis So once that and then even for those kind of initial features or capabilities is definitely involves couple iterations and Refinement once that's stabilized then we just kind of like that's our core and we starting this evolving it allows starting this talking about this the project supports allows a group of people of Yeah, the community how to collaborate on projects and also this There's another there's a requirement. Yeah, the public toaster So fundamentally that's a we set up this a public Infrastructure that's for anybody can take advantage of it and just as a bootstraps I'll have a first taste of the Yachto projects around build and do some customization and do something So you see there's a we have a very big ambitious for the toaster, but yeah, we have to start with the core first so this is Yeah, the road map does the the design forms doesn't help us comes up So you don't need I know it's a really fine print and probably you cannot read it But it's just showing you so everything here are the core features They help us identify the long-term There's the whole road map of the toaster and then things are break into stages So then there's this just yeah provide us the guidance so we deliver the core and then there's a on Different stages There's the iteration of the core to get its refined and stabilized and on top of that we add Yeah, there's a more and more features. So towards the end make its full bloom So this is I just want to show this the whole project is very systematic and We investigate lots of this yeah resource and put lots of thoughts The behind the scene there's a how to this make sure is achieve this. I'll go this high gold this we said Okay, so that's the overall this of this at the toaster projects We have in mind and that the guidance. That's how we are going to implement it. So Now back down to this ground zero what we have done so far So this is a diagrams and also this in the middle is the the bulletin items Captures so what is that the core frameworks and this of this toaster projects which involves The top part capture this the things that's a we either edit all this Refined for the existing this is the big bake. There's a This yachto this the core piece and then there's the bottom part is the main components key components for the toaster There's a we lay the foundation and then we continue on refine them and improve them So first of all, there's a you know, as I mentioned the big bake this currently There's a it's much more like a personal there's a build system. So even though it has X XML RPC support and the some does a level of this a client server Yeah, there's a support, but then with this The one five this initial release we made lots of changes in this the big bake core part So make it's more robust behave like a server So then we make the server is resizing memory after it starts So make it's kind of like even nice is allows this a continuous connects to it. Otherwise Yeah, currently there's a if you run a build you kick start a big big And then this after the build the big big just die is finished and then there's a we yeah There's a to better support this the client server model. We also improve the XML RPC interfaces And then we introduced this as a client server. So then the big bake So as I mentioned, there's a lots of things the new this Thing or new features for the initial release of toaster without this is most needed feature There's a people a value add people have been asking for is the build analysis There's the build out the build analysis plus the build out analysis So that's requires we need to collect lots of data There's of the while the building is going on and also there's a while the build going on this all these data collections There's a allows us this Later on reconstructs the build status and also this from those data collected I'll give us lots of information about the package dependency is what package in the final images all those kind of thing So we introduce this DSI data store interface as an observer So and then there's a is yeah listening to the big big server and then a register for many Events and then the process all the events from the big big server and filter them out and passing them into this The data and then put this data into the the data store So on top of the data store, we have this jungle based the web server There's a backhand and this web server backhand. Yeah, it's we defined as a rest API So this and then with this on top of this rest API does it give us this the support to the front end That's a to query the data and then this allows us to build on top of that There's a hot the presentation parts of the data So here are some we build this the week we have the wiki page for toaster So from here this is has all the information this about the toaster the design and also this some this The design philosophy and also there's all this full documentation this the design form has done the research works on and also this you can clone this initial code of this Yeah, toaster our web hop from here and then to run the test the toaster. So currently there's a It's very this early stage. So then there's a yeah, if people have used this Yachto and the run this a bit they build so they're not much the changes there we try to keep things this as consistent and Yeah, not dramatic change as possible because we want people that still be able to this Yeah, it's not kind of like to flavor of feedback if you yeah, let's use toaster Then it's one thing and not it's different So you still saw the only in it build environment to set up your environment And then if you want to this the data to be collected much richer We we depends on lots of things The data provided by build history. So you need to add these two lines in the local con files and Then the next step is this now this is the changes that you need to source toaster start So this basically start the big big server and also the OS OS eyes There's a the the client the observer so behind the scenes and Then this next is this you just do this a random command like you do a normal build So yeah, once you build is done. So this is one of the the simple interfaces With the initial so currently there's a we still haven't built up this The front-end yet to allows give us this kind of like yeah the good presentation of the data So we just this is one of the simple does a HTML pure HTML file Interface allows us to really this a peek into the database and seed to make sure that's the correct This is the build information is provided So probably you cannot see very well, but if I go back Here yeah, so here there's a see with this build the command line this I got a couple of warnings And this tell me there's a fail to fetch URL blah blah blah and then all this So you can see there's a with this simple interface as a task So those data is captured and by DSI starting the data store and then this through this The front-end API so here reflects I got four warnings Which is the exact same four warnings. That's a yeah show down the command line So this just give you the idea and what's next so where there's a shooting for this Early release this initial release of toaster. That's a target for first weeks of November so this supported all those the big big changes I just mentioned and Also, this includes this other toaster. That's a jungle back-end frameworks the DSI the data store and the jungle web server and REST APIs and then this for the next there's a one six There's a where in we just finished up. There's a one five release and we're in the face of planning one six release So we are planning this Yeah, taking the guidance with this inside out this approach and then this for one six Really is you should have this a front-end both the front-end Front-end and also there's a added features of the back-end so any questions regarding toaster so far Yes No, that that's one of those things so you can go to the weekends look at this research So that's one of the as on this extended Functionality so currently this as I mentioned we just allows people to run the build collects the data So it's still we start with a personal toaster first Yeah, single user mode Okay So any other questions before I move on Yeah in the single user mode you run the build still does on the Linux, right that you cannot run the bit big and As I said, we are defining this a one six That's a so currently is this the interface that we have the interface. So the is yeah It's jungle does a you probably can provide this API is rest API and you can we don't have the front-end so there's a yeah It's not what I'm saying is not limited to this. Yeah, this So that's why we take this there's a web. Yeah, there's a frameworks approach Okay, so now there's a I'm going to talk about this to address this Another request for this a developed anywhere. There's a people say what if my there's a development There's an environment is not Linux and So for people there's a no there's a with the Yachto projects. We have this eclipse plug-in and For this plug-in. That's a we have to we support both the system developer that so through this Bit big commander projects creation. So that's basically create a Projects based on this the metadata and then it interacts with the hub allows you to this Using within eclipse plug-in. That's a edit you recipe files and the change you config and then bring up the hub and further customize your this a build and run the build and Also, we have the application developer side supports, which is based on the the CDT, but Yachto projects The build generates this is owned as the two chains of the SDKs or what we call the application development to kids so it contains the cross two chain and also the system Matching this the target so allows you to this a within the eclipse IDE Just you build you the cross develop your application for the target and also give you the capabilities of this a remote Deploy and debug and all that so our plug-in is based on top of this the CDT Which is CC++? That's a development toolkit, which is quite standard Eclipse does an IDE offerings for this a C++ developer, but for this a Yachto cross development environment setup But all this mention is there's a eclipse ID is currently this only works on this a Linux development host then that's a As I mentioned the people says okay, so eclipse this is Java So first of all, then that's there's the hope that's it Now shouldn't yeah, there's a hope that's a we cannot limit is to this just the Linux platforms and Also, there's a requirement that requirement come from this people work within a corporate environment So the IT setup limit there. Yeah, there's a main working environment is windows and also there's a developer Personal preference. That's a yeah, it's not Linux. That's a development host and also so that's trigger us to To really does a start investigate this in these requirements. So we Yeah, there's a found here. That's the fundamental. That's the building blocks That's we can rely on give us this as a proof of concept start. Yeah, there's a kickoff there's a Proof of concept and explore that's in this requirement. One of them is this Java network That's a you are I this class which encapsulates all this you are a key information Yeah, the holes the poor the poor the past and the scheme So this allows you to really hide the real does a word your files This exists those kind of situation and give you yeah enough Information that's a remote system. You can reconstruct everything and also does a eclipse does a has this sub projects the target management's does a remote system explorer RSE and It has lots of the remote resource subsystem already and which does the yachto projects There's a we also yeah contributes under some patches in that area. So it's give you these remote files Files subsystem the shell the process the terminal so we saw this and it's give us this really high hope That's a weak achieve. That's a everything. There's a migrate this eclipse ID environment on Now that's a Linux. There's a platforms so then there's a people So I just mentioned that so we did some research and then have some layers What are the kind of like existing this the blocks that's the pieces we can use or take advantage of and Provide this capability and the other thing that's a In our research works is we also look at this a current eclipse community That's a offering. So is there's any efforts? That's a yeah already out there then why? just improving it and start using it and explore and see that's where they provide patches to that and So there are two things that we've looked into one is the eclipse CDT itself So it does have the capability allows you to create a projects on a remote machine But then there's as I mentioned this a we as a yachto projects So our plug in mainly relies on this the crowd the ADT and for the auto-tool based the projects so it's just stops at this a Allows you to build Create a project and is a purely just as simple as a good own base this up See projects and that's it It doesn't give you provide you any this capabilities to do the configuration for auto-tool based Projects and also this there's not even there's any this efforts put into allows you to run the build at all so that's the CDT part and the other there's a Turnoff fact is we trying to ping them because we saw this that they have this remote projects creation There's a capabilities there and we try and see if there's any do they have any roadmaps or anybody interested in continuing this Evolving that so then so we can plan work with them and We just kind of like never heard anything. So since it's a dead end at least is yeah Since the mailing list Then probably this I can get but the other thing this is think about we have Three layers kind of like so basically we have that the two change the cross environment still needs resides on a Linux That's a development host that part you cannot migrate to the windows part, right? then this is basically what I'm talking about is the main this a IDE environment for the developer right and then there's still the target. So that's the the definitely there's a The ultimate where you develop the application against that's still for the remote target So I'm talking about this you do these auto tools and the CDT is using the two chains So for the target and to build and reconfigure. There's none Okay. Yeah. No. Yes. Okay, since you mentioned when river Yeah, we we present this to them and yes, as you said they do but what they do is It's not what we ask for so they basically pour the whole two chains to windows Yeah, that's their approach. So this is not none. That's based on the existing the technology So they basically create their proprietary solutions. There's whereas they sell money the big money That's kind of like but I'm just talking about everything just using yacht to open source. No Yeah Yeah, no, that's exactly my goal of this talk is not this Yeah, I want to start stir the community and then give them some pressure Because I won't take the open. I'm more interested in the open source Not the enterprise that's kind of like so approach and I Reach out to them and trying to give them the use case and how far I've reached and yeah Okay, so let me finish and then that definitely that's something that that's my goal of this talks Seriously, and the other thing is this eclipse parallel tools projects PTP and it has this this Rdt. That's a remote development tools feature so we look in that as Well, and so this When we first this yeah here about them So they said they're go kind of like exactly matching what we want but when we really start playing with it and then that's the first of it is really cumbersome and it's not stable and again no auto tool support and also it seems they're They're kind of like in the incubation phases and they're not following the CDT model so even though you achieve the creator projects and run a build and then that's a With the CDT model you see this is not just stop at the build So CDT the whole package give you the remote deployment and remote debugging That's kind of like the full cycle of this remote development capabilities And by they're not following the CDT models then that's right after you build you start there So I reinvent the remote deployment and the remote debugging. So that's kind of like so that's pretty much not very Not the right approach as well. And also there's a their incubation. They're not mainstream. Not even eclipse this. Yeah, so So we look at that and then so we said Seems yeah, we have to roll up our own slaves and starting doing some this dirty work proof of concept work ourselves and see yeah, just based on this a what out there and what we can come up with and So these are the things we have changes. There's a made in the yaku There's a plug-in as part of the proof concepts and as we plow away for And so first that we yeah, that's a refactor did a major refactor of our code And then there's a create this a common remote utl plug-in. So originally with the yaku projects We have the remote tool support of those but that's scattered into different. There's a plug-in so coupled with different plug-ins And now we cannot like extract them out create a standalone Plug-in so more like a utility plug-in So anything that's going to this interacts with the remote is going to require this remote utl plug-in and give you this the common there's a core of the remote interaction and also as we there's a Plane things and we found this upstream bug. So we made this the contributions Yeah, we fixed couple the deadlock situation and also we improved as a many in the RC There's a code as we I mentioned so when we yeah start this a plane with it and build on top of it We found this a certain circumstance. There's a deadlock and also lots of things. There's a yeah The the process and also the shell is this relies on those synchronous calls So really slow down things. So then we yeah change this Something that's into asynchronous. So provide this a robustness that's we want and also we found this a lots of the existing this I think this is the key problems and of the CDD code which I just Not I don't get it. It's really this I found the issue and I asked him So basically that's what they have is all over the place. They are using iPads So, you know, that's the whole thing is really changing how you access files How you access things right the fundamental is for this remote access So they're using a pass and a pass is only give you this a the local file system the access as I mentioned Yeah, that's the URI give you and already does that there's already does a full this kind of like UI class Implementation give you this kind of like abstracts out your real this a location and allows you to this encapsulate the location and either remote and unify the API that's an interface is allows you to kind of like construct this so What the approach we takes based on that we just starting this Experimenting replacing the pieces where it's using iPads with this location URI So this is what we have achieved so far. So we can Now this a create the both this As mentioned, this is the big big commander projects and also this our own this The ADT does a remote projects. So, yeah By this kind of I make its location neutral. So either local hosts a remote host so on top of RSE and also we figure out a way to do this a remote configuration Now that's the yeah, we are just stops at the build part because the build part is just we have to use the CDT And as mentioned, they're just yeah way too much iPads embedded there and I asked them That's what is the best approach. I haven't heard much Feedbacks or guidance. That's a give back to me. So here I'm going to give you a quick demo of what we can do now so as I mentioned there's a For a system developer. So we have this yacht. So there's a big big commander projects and then there's a You can see that's a from the Presentation part. There's not much changes and then there's a here. We just add this a you Yeah, the capabilities you specify. What is the remote? Yeah, the provider and then there's a You just give me the connection name. So I just use the IP address and then so With that and you browse So this going to take a while and I think I'm going to running out of time here So basically if you finish and that the project's going to be with yeah Bring in this IDE for you and then that's you just kind of continue on what I'm saying is it's just one very simple There's an interface changes and give you this a yeah capabilities to specify where you want the project's locations to be So that's that's a and then as I mentioned for this the projects and So you see this so we have the plug-in. There's a yacht to ADT And this is our proof of concept. It's the same thing. There's a oh, I want to show you So with there's a the cross the yacht to cross development environment. So all of these are very Minor changes to the interface but allows you to specify the location Yeah, you know, that's a here does a with the RSE the IP address allows you specify the location Where's your cross environment to be so that's the addition we added here and Then that's if you go to here So you change and then there's again you specify so this Just creates this even though they I give the IP of local hosts But yeah, it is the remote is create there and then that's that you can as I said we achieve the remote configuration so somehow Okay, so then this is can run using this a remote to change and reconfigure this kind of like remote projects and The next step is doing the build is just the build part is I pass all over the place so as I said, this is more like a Call of action of Where we are that's a remaining challenges, which is the bigger this kind of obstacle we need to overcome So with the big big commander projects probably it's simpler because we're doing this the The toaster the web interfaces and once is there that's we can achieve and currently this as I mentioned a bit The commander is launching hub hub is Linux tools But on the other end we have this build appliance, which is a merchant virtual machine so you can bring that to the windows and You change the metadata there and then there's a yeah connects this eclipse to that and then there's a Run the hop there and against this you change the metadata and the do the build and So with this application development side So yeah We there's two approaches that's currently this We can this things up we can think this But none of them is ideal So basically first one is changed the overall the CDT code base. It is yeah, because this currently the CDT upstream They have no intention. I asked them this I pass Location URL just switch them and provide these capabilities, but There's no response there and they said this is not something kind of like their intent to do The other the option to then we just form the CDT implementation So this gives us the needed changes to support that our usage model But then there's a yeah, it's definitely something hard to sustain and scale and also this kind of like is Yeah, anytime you do a fork something and then this is not good solution so that's where we are at the moment and I'm just if you guys think this this is definitely the value all this usage model strong usage model for this and which I personally truly believe into it then probably we need to yeah Let the upstream let the community know about it and make some noise there Okay, so that concludes my talk. Thank you very much. Sorry. I forgot to ask This is not Yeah, I think that's a for the kernel probably does a yeah Have some issues, but definitely there are lots of this Eclipse as I do is very legit to lots of developers and once people just using it and it's stable enough is They like it. I mean, there's lots of features and also the sweet within ID environment It's definitely as mentioned, that's not like much easy that's for you to do the remote I Have co-worker who says I'll say oh, I'm cool with this Yeah, this command line But once we have to do this kind of remote debugging using this remote gdb And he just said oh, I need to refresh my memory how to kind of start the gdb So around the remote and how to start local and it creates just one. Yeah Where so with the UI it actually shows you okay from which There's a lot to it actually And another thing that is worth mentioning maybe is that many of those things are actually coming out of the Eclipse ID as Stand-alone application Red Hat is doing that for the debugger There's also another initiative Yeah, yeah, and also it's kind of like, you know Eclipse is the plug yeah plug in so you can keeps continue add in the ID Whatever you want, but the main thing I think is very I just don't know why the upstream not realized that I know they are kind of busy adding features on Make features more robust, but this is definitely doesn't make it kind of broader adoption of the idea Give it a try No, no, no, yeah, I said that's it, you know, there's a I saw this I saw this Teemo here. Oh, he's here. Okay. Yeah, as it said, this is But as I said To take the open source approach so we want to yeah So as Dominic says, I know that's a we talked with wind river and they even want to see this happen So they said oh, it's kind of trimmed down our resources are pouring two chains to different platforms Yeah Within the Yeah, that's one but then as I said, there's a remote terminal, but that's not the ID That's basically you can do that. That's kind of on the windows We see into your remote Yeah, but we just want this consistent look and feel the feelings of the whole thing Why that's kind of like on windows is just I start and I like my mentality has changed on Something else. Yeah, so the fundamental access that is not something hard. It's just the app has Yeah Okay, cool. Thank you. And I'm with the yaku project So if sorry, that's my demo somehow that's it's not that quite working But yeah, you can look me up if you have further questions Thank you