 Hi everyone, this is going to be fun. We have a big reveal coming up a big big news But before we go into that Why don't both of you start by kind of a quick intro and also talk a little about what your companies do? Thank You Ricardo. It's a pleasure to be here. My name is honey. Oh, good day I'm the CEO and founder of edu-coya when an online technology company Building the future of education for the next generation of Africans. We connect learners mostly students in the k-12 To teachers for real-time online education. It's great to be here Hi, my name is Babs Ogden day Maybe the big reveal there's a clue there I'm the founder and CEO of CUDA. We're a digital bank and We're on a mission to provide financial services to a large Underserved market that's basically all Africans on the planet and We want to provide affordable and accessible financial services to them We launched in 2019 and to date. We've grown to almost 7 million customers mainly not in our launch country in Nigeria Yeah, and super excited to to be on slush stage my first time Right, so let's go straight into the most interesting question. You're you're both successful founders you run successful companies You're very busy You work very hard and you're also husband and wife So, how's the how's the marriage been since you embarked on your entrepreneurial? journey I Mean I think there are lots of positives Obviously, you know having a partner that understands the very gruesome journey That the startup is you know the late nights early mornings long hours So I think in that respect. It's it's a huge advantage and it's kind of like having also like a Free co-founder, you know without having to give up, you know a lot of shares You know someone to always advise you and help, you know along the journey, so I think there are lots of positives If you can talk about some of the challenges, yeah, I don't have no problems talking about challenges I think building a startup is very hard And it can be incredibly lonely. You have this sort of big vision of what you're trying to build and oftentimes You need to work at an incredible pace So I think having you know a partner that understands what that feels like and can share in part of that journey has been incredibly Helpful on the other side it can be incredibly challenging because it's two people literally obsessed with their businesses and their visions and so it's oftentimes about striking the right balance between prioritizing work and this incredible mission that we're trying to build and also finding time to still be able to connect So this is obviously not a therapy session. So let's let's move on Let's leave it like that and let's talk a little bit about business you Both started the company Before slightly before or during COVID So talk a little bit about how that's been kind of from a from an African perspective because obviously globally COVID had a huge impact on Adoption of a lot of kind of tech businesses What was that like in kind of in a place like Nigeria? Yes, so my my business idea actually came from COVID so we run in and during the COVID I think around the world education was one of the most impacted sectors particularly for young learners Whereas in markets like Europe, there were lots of online options in Nigeria the time schools and students and parents really struggling So the early foundation of the idea for edu-coyer came out of that period I think what it has done for online technology Education companies in particular is that it made it obvious to parents maybe for the first time that it was possible to learn online And then you saw that you know from that we had increased adoption is specifically for edu-coyer that people are now increasingly aware That this is a viable option for their kids to learn Particularly in Nigeria. We have an acute in many parts of Africa. There's an acute shortage of teachers And we have one of the young Africa has one of the youngest populations the world over 800 million people under 25 So there's an incredible opportunity to use technology to provide more accessibility and affordability in the education space And I think COVID accelerated that but companies like us and in edu-coyer really now writing that wave and continue to build out What that future looks like? maps Yeah, so we actually didn't start during COVID So we started we launched in 2019 Q4 just before COVID and During I think it was early early 2020 There was a bit of panic Because of COVID we were actually trying to Fundraise around that time as well. So, you know at the time we always thought we had to travel To meet investors and whatnot and we couldn't travel. So there was a lot of apprehension You know just generally But actually what happened was There were a lot there was a lot of For those guys that were skeptical about you know digital and technology generally Especially within financial services because there's a lot of you know trust barrier to to overcome It kind of left them with no other option if they wanted access to financial services Because the traditional players Weren't really set up for You know for that time and we as a digital only bank was set up exactly for this So it really helped us to Accelerate the concept it helped us to Have more I guess Tolerant customers Willing to to try new things just because that alternative wasn't there and we really wrote on that momentum and till till today and When it came to sort of fundraising it was a challenge our first institutional Funds came in from from target global. I know there was there was a lot of back and forth over zoom Power cuts during during I see sessions So it was it was a very interesting time But I guess it was kind of like setting setting us up for this brave new world of how business would be done both on the sort of Investor management side as well as the customer customer acquisition side so It ended up being you know a red a silver lining for for our business and Yeah, as I said, we're still writing that momentum till till till today You managed to mention the power cuts. I think on one of the calls. You had to run and refill the generator Get the electricity back. I don't know where you were but Let's talk a little bit about the the challenges actually so it sounds like cool. It was was kind of overall positive for both the businesses and and Let's let's let's chat a little bit about kind of the difficulties of building a business in an emerging markets Looking back. Well, what were the things maybe that you didn't expect that that kind of Were challenging over the last couple years. I think in terms of challenging. I mean, I'm a Double-time founder. So I think typically in Africa in many emerging markets when we're starting out and building in a new sector Oftentimes is a lot of skepticism Especially if you're building in the B2C space to see are people really going to for example e-commerce shop online Are people going to bank online? Are people going to be willing to learn online? So a lot of the times it's introducing consumers to a new behavior and a new activity that they haven't Used to or they haven't done before but I think that that's where the incredible opportunity also comes To play because you are literally breaking ground in a new market where you are in many ways been able to You know going across uncharted territories and in some cases you have very little to know competition at least at the start till Everyone figures out that it works. So beginning It's really about just educating the customer which often, you know, you need to do a lot more than you need to do in more Develop markets. I think then obviously we have the infrastructure challenges as well They come with working the emerging market So the internet isn't always as great power cuts But those things are also incredible opportunities because for example mobile internet in Africa is going an incredible pace So a lot of the times I think it's about thinking about the challenges and then working really building into a solution about how you Overcome them. So for example at Eduquia We know that you know high-speed internet is not going to be accessible for especially users in remote areas So we build our video streaming service in a way that it can work with really low latency And it can still be as efficient as you know as someone who's using it in Europe So you have to really understand the consumer sort of Mindset on understand the challenges they're working with and then build that into your product for success Yeah, I mean I would echo a lot of that In terms of I think for financial services, it's it's even more of a challenge just because there is a Trust factor In when you look on the customer side You're basically at least for us. We're basically telling them to trust this faceless You know virtual financial institution Who and these are a group of people that already have trust issues with physical brick-and-mortar So it just makes the effort a lot more difficult So we had to do a lot of sensitization a lot of education That's kind of like the first barrier that we had to cross the value proposition was a no-brainer It was accessible. It was affordable, but we really had to work hard On the trust on the trust issue The infrastructural deficits that honey mentioned also contributes to lack of trust again within financial services If you do a transaction and in today's world It's not instant or you don't get sort of instant response from from a customer service or customer experience It does Dilute the trust so for us these are sort of huge challenges that we have to spend time every day really focusing on Because for us the customer trust is the biggest asset that we have as a deposit taken financial institution on the Regulatory side because obviously we're a regulated entity you know our regulators are keen to to support but then there's also the whole concept of them being conservative so striking the balance between a Startup that's VC backed that needs to grow super fast constantly looking for scale to marry that with a Regulator that is More conservative, you know once organic slower growth, you know because of the perceived risk of of fast growth, so we have to Be we had to mature very quickly As a business as individuals really carrying the regulator along And just educating the regulators as well as the customers So those are kind of like our sort of I would say major challenges, but As honey said it does bring opportunities as well. So over time we've become sort of I wouldn't say we're Allies in terms of regulation, but we've become we've developed a relationship Which is sort of very beneficial for us So we have a lot of access now to to the regulator. We're able to Propose a lot of a lot of things so what kind of seen as the sort of this one of the poster child for for fintech in in the space in the region So that really helps us and it also helps us to sort of contribute to defining and shaping the policies of Of the space generally In terms of customers, I think one of the things we did was to you know in carrying the customers along Because of all these challenges all these trust challenges again over time. We've managed to earn that trust So even when we have issues with technology or down times You know because they know Kuda would always tell them ahead of time we have We have some goodwill, you know, which is super important So there's a lot of work that needs to that, you know went into went into that but at the at the end of it I think it's you know, it's just improved the relationships That we have with with both sets like cut consumers and the regulator. There's a key key stakeholders for us when you've obviously grown from When we invested I think 40,000 accounts to six and a half million in in three years, so you've clearly done a good job and kind of convincing the customers that Kuda is a is a trustworthy kind of Alternative to it to the incumbent banks, right? So you talked a little about kind of educating the market, but both of your companies are kind of not going necessarily after customers that In your case are kind of not banked or people that don't have education, but actually to unhappily banked or students that are kind of Struggling, right? So would you say it makes a big difference what kind of business you start in emerging markets? Is it Is it easier to go after kind of Unhappy customers where the NPS is very low and and and you have a chance to kind of disrupt the the incumbents I think I would say it's easier It's a different challenge I think one of the things that sort of People kind of potentially might underestimate is I think in the emerging market Actually, you probably need more resources to To get people on board just because less less has been done So when you talk about sort of the infrastructure or deficit in our case a given example just delivering physical cards You know in Europe. It's pretty Seamless, you know, there's a mail system that works Good roads and whatnot. We have to think extra about that There's a whole department that you know kind of figures out the logistics of that, you know They're dressing and whatnot and then on the education side you still you need to apply resources to And sure that that education piece is deep enough and is strong enough and you can sort of get people On board so actually even though we don't have as much access to to funding in the region It's ironic because we actually need, you know, more funding in in the region to unlock the huge Opportunities that that that exists. So it's not Necessarily easy or harder, but it's a different challenge and it just and it just like anywhere else requires Really strong domain knowledge and domain expertise to be able to unlock the value that that that is on ground. I Think one of the things that I'd say as well as I think there's this misconception that sometimes consumers in emerging markets are radically different from Consumers elsewhere in many ways. They're quite similar They want the same access to quality education parents want the same thing for their kids to be able to get education and do well In school they want the same access to great financial services So in many ways they are looking for convenience is accessibility in the same way that many of us are I think what is often different is that it's just super early stage in in some cases And so a lot more work has to go into sort of educating the consumer and building a really strong brand I think that's one of the key things and then the fact that they in many cases They don't have a lot of comparables which is also a big opportunity But it just means that for the early guys and for the guys who is starting or breaking out the industry Then we have to do a lot more work in the beginning to sort of educate the market But I think once you do that work, then you have this huge opportunity There for the taking and particularly in education. We'll see that in many African households after Food and shelter education is the one sector where people are willing to sort of invest in for the children because you know Them getting access to a good education is not in the same way here where you is the key, right? It's literally the difference between one generation lifting out of poverty and being able to do more And and not having a great life So you'll see their parents will oftentimes after that after the third thing will invest in all this Supplementary education to make their kids be able to have access and do better in school I think around what you said around I think it's also about just choosing the right business model In many cases in case of CUDA Many people thought you couldn't directly build a digital license back that you had to provide all these sort of Auxiliary services, but then they showed that they can be done and the same with us in the in eduquia really providing an online learning alternative to Go into an offline tutorial center. We're seeing consumers really start to take to that in a big way Great Let's let's talk a little bit about the the opportunities as well And I don't know if people know this in the audience, but Nigeria as a stat I find crazy, right? But it's 200 million people now and I think is according to UN predictions expected to grow to 400 million or even 500 million in the next 20 30 years, so we'll be the kind of third most populous country in the world just Which is pretty crazy growth and and you know building building a company in those markets And just mean you you know you have a huge Potential customer base, right and and then on top you you're also serving kind of customers that are outside Africa and Kind of going after the diaspora whilst paying Maybe you can talk a little bit about kind of also the the positive sides of building a business where you have the cost base in Africa But actually serve customers outside Nigeria yeah, I think that Africans and I think for me when we think about the challenges and the opportunities really about how do we educate Africans everywhere? And I think Africans no matter where they're located often have unique needs so in our case We're spending a lot of time now educating Africans in diaspora And most of using teachers based in Nigeria So using Nigerian tutors who are very often highly qualified Have great access to internet as well and are able to do it at a better cost price than you would Performing a teacher in Europe, but they also have unique needs. So for example, we teach local language classes Such as Yoruba, Ibo, Hausa, which are often just not available in Europe So there's an incredible opportunity not only serving Africans in Africa, but also Africans in the diaspora as well You sort of think about that as sort of the the full gamut of what it's like to just be serving an African immigrant Base I think what's also interesting about that is just the population Growth in Africa means that it's just an incredible time to be building on the continent And also for other emerging markets I think in many ways we get to pioneer the future of what tutoring what future of what education looks like In many cases having had the opportunity to live both in Nigeria and in Europe I think a lot of the things that we have in Nigeria actually a lot more advanced Financial services in many ways because we have no option. We have to do it at a more accessible price point And we have to be really innovative So it allows the technology and the solutions that we build to be really creative And I think that as an entrepreneur and as a builder Building for Africans at this time with the growth in population. It's just an incredible opportunity to be at the forefront of Yeah, I mean focusing on Nigeria as a country for me personally I think you know probably a bit biased but I think Nigeria is probably the most important economy in Africa So for us we want to be Category Kings in Nigeria and we believe that automatically that would Propel us to be category Kings across across Africa and and we see it in sort of different examples I don't know if anybody listens to Africa music here like Afro beats Most of the songs that you would hear it's called Afro beats, but it's probably you know, it's Nigerian music Mostly you can't so you know, I think you know the country sort of Has a real movement and kind of carries Africa along with it And and we're really sort of leveraging on that as a business and leveraging on the the huge population which kind of you know in a lot and also You know having trying to look for products to serve outside of Africa as well So like the diaspora market remittances and things like that Kind of just propels the brand And takes advantage of the population not just within Africa, but outside of Africa as well So yeah, it's it's really exciting It's huge opportunity from just Sort of consumer and like a B2C customer perspective And it's something that I'm glad that you know, I have that you know Sort of domain knowledge and understanding of that customer base and as a business we're able to provide services that you know That really really serve them and also in terms of You know, I think Ricardo you mentioned a little bit about the cost cost structure We do have to Have, you know expenses outside of of Nigeria But a lot of our expenses are also still within Nigeria and the reality is It is it is cheaper So we can take advantage of sort of the low the low cost even in terms of things like you know marketing when you do your Your SEOs and whatnot. It is slightly cheaper to acquire customers But at the same time we were able to leverage that To to have the you know similar revenue That you would have in more developed markets There are of course lots of different challenges in terms of volatility of currencies and whatnot We just had one recently in Nigeria, but long term You know the opportunity is to be able to build something of global standard best best standard At a at a lower cost structure and still take advantage of sort of huge potential revenue It's obviously not more homogeneous, right? So kind of every every country has its own show Popularity challenges. Is it is it easier to go from Nigeria into other African countries or would you if you could do it again start in Ghana or a smaller? Yeah, I think yeah, I think Nigeria is quite complex and I would say From a business perspective a little bit hostile if you're not familiar with the terrain I think other African countries are slightly easier and you know more friendly on a business level But I think so if you can crack the complexities of a country like Nigeria I think it's easier to move into into other countries I would definitely prefer to to go first in Nigeria and then go outside then go from outside to Into Nigeria Yeah, yeah, I would have to agree. I think sort of if you crack Nigeria everyone else feels a little bit like a walk in the park In comparison, it's just I drew is incredibly complex consumers incredibly demanding But if you manage to make enough people happy there, then typically you can what you take you can sort of do it We've seen it at least in the case of online learning is it's almost Very different. I think you know the Niger is a big jewel in Africa and many margin markets So to win there is a good start to do a good journey Obviously the best music comes from Nigeria. We learned obviously there we go. There's a fan Before we finish What what do your companies look like in ten years from now? What's your kind of what's your vision? Well, I mean for kuda. We're building a whilst. It's after focused Business. It's also global business because we see afghans as you know, we're we're very global now And we're pretty much everywhere. So we're building a financial institution for every afghan on the planet and I always joke that you know, it's a niche product because of the Sort of nicheness of the of the segment, but it's a nice niche to have, you know We have like potentially two billion people to to cater for So I would say in ten years We I want kuda to be a global bank with you know millions and hundreds of millions of of of of customers all over the world and Yeah, just to be a household name everywhere Honey, I think for me Online education is going through an incredible transformation at the moment And I think that I'm at a choir mission is really to be at the forefront of that and really look at how do we build the future of online Tutoring for everyone. So I think in ten years. We really want to have achieved our mission We want to have built like a global Globally recognized education brand so at a choir being well known and and being known for providing really affordable accessible and engaging Education for the next generation. So I think if we've delivered on that, then I'd be pretty happy in in ten years great, so you you heard it here the Next wave of generational companies multi-billion dollar businesses are currently being built and in in Africa, so obviously very Happy and fortunate that we had a chance to invest and it's been kind of great working with you guys and Kind of looking forward to continue on the on the journey big round of applause for Babs and honey Good all right Thank you so much. It's great to be here