 Electric vehicle market and battery materials. This is a hot topic with this particular group. This is, we are the battery material sector. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to start to my right with Greg Bose. And Greg, I'd love for you to take one minute to introduce us, but introduce yourself to our investors on why your market valuation is going to go a lot higher, okay? I only have one minute. Yeah, one minute. This is the elevator pitch. A minute? A minute? Yeah, you got one minute. You can do it for a minute, a minute and a half. Very simply, lithium cobalt graphite are very small markets. The automobile markets are very large, and even if we only get a small degree of penetration into those markets, a couple percent of new vehicles every year, that requires multiple new graphite mines, cobalt mines, and lithium mines. So nothing is certain in the investment business, but that's a pretty good bet. And Brent, your stocks up from next source is up about 10, 11 percent today. What's going on here? Well, that's a great question. I mean, we've been very much flying under the radar. I mean, we do have an updated feasibility study that's coming out next week, but it's all based, if you saw my presentation yesterday, we are doing what's called a phased modular approach. And this is a first, we believe, for the industrial minerals, but really for the mining. And it's a proof of concept. As I said yesterday, that right now, there certainly has to be more graphite mines coming online. But as we illustrated, most of the economics out there don't work in today's prices. So what we're trying to do is scale back, do it in a phased approach, come out with a right-sized mine, which is smaller, it's still the third largest mine in the world, but build it incrementally. In a modular approach, as I expressed, we can build that for $20 million. Our original CAPEX was almost $200 million for roughly 50 percent more product. So this is quite dramatic. And if we get this thing done right, the customers we're selling the product to, we're in there. It is a first to the post. Only two or three projects are going to make it, and that's assuming today's economics. And of course, if things change at the odd your vehicles, then a lot of projects will come online. But we have to be first. And this allows us to do that. And of course, William here from LithiumX, you're, I'm sorry, Tim. Tim. Tim. William is in Argentina right now working. Okay. Forgive me. This company, as you know, I know most everybody here is new to me. So go ahead, Tim. We are, as I said yesterday, we're a brine-based producer of Lithium focused right now in a project in Argentina in the south of Los Angeles. We expect soon to be building an initial ponding system that maybe in a year and a half will produce 2,500 tons of saleable high-purity Lithium brine. And if we can do it, I suspect our stock will go up because we'll have revenue and profits. So I think that's probably the best bet for us. And of course, we have Carlos from Neolithic. Carlos. Oh, hello, everybody. So we have what we call the next significant discovery in Argentina. We discovered a property called the Tres Carradas, which we call it 3Q in the province of Catamarca. This project is unique in several aspects. One of them is, has very high grade. In fact, it has one of the highest grades in Argentina and in the world, top five, and has one of the other important factors of brine is obviously critical impurities. And we have the lowest combined critical impurities of any known salar. So those two are very important. But we also have built and invested over $9 million within the project. As of today, we have a camp. We have a full road. And we have all the infrastructure to start the pre-development stage. We have a resource shortly in the next month or so or less, which is obviously a big catalyst. And then the PA, Q3 in 2017. So another three or four months to that. So I don't know if you noticed how we've managed this panel, but we have lithium on one side and we have graphite on the other. So let's talk about misconceptions in battery materials. So for instance, there's quite a significant amount of graphite in batteries. Greg, you want to talk about this just a minute? Sure. I'll start with kind of at the top level. When you look at the graphite market, let's say for the sake of our argument, 600,000 tons a year, not all of that is battery grade material. There's a lot of variation in that. The larger flake sizes won't be used in batteries because you can make more money in other markets. And a lot of the smaller stuff, either the yield is not high enough or it's too difficult to purify. That is also true at the level of the individual mine. So the amount of battery grade material in a mine is a lot smaller than the nameplate capacity. The significance of that is if, for example, a 50,000 ton a year mine comes on stream and only 20,000 of it is, let's call it, battery grade material, and when you turn that into anode material, the yield is 40 to 50%. So you're only producing 10,000 tons of anode material from a 50,000 ton a year mine. There's a leverage effect there. You need a lot of mines in order to get enough anode material to meet even very conservative forecasts of future growth in lithium ion batteries. And Carlos, I know you for reputation. I'd love for you to talk to us about lithium, my needs in batteries. And Paul, can I get you to move all the dirty glasses off the table for me, please? Well, the good thing is that for all the batteries that are in discussion today, every single one will need lithium, which is one of the good things about the lithium industry. But another thing that people don't understand quite well is that not everything is vehicles. There's a lot of other buses and motorbikes specifically in China, where there's about 200 million of them that are going to transfer into lithium, is an extremely important market. So our view is that we don't want to bet on any specific type of technology. We don't need to be a lithium provider. Our main objective is to provide high grade lithium carbonate and not play also the game between carbon and hydroxide because there's other players in the market that can do it better than us. So our view is to keep it simple and let the industry essentially go where it needs to go, which we believe will be obviously in the lithium side. So there's plenty of market within the battery sector for lithium. Obviously, one will succeed or others. We don't know which one will be the next, let's say, killer battery. But depending on who uses it, for example, in the buses in China, there's certain types of batteries that are used that are more safe, that don't have the higher, I call it, temperature and could potentially explode or burn. Certain types of batteries are better than others for long distances and so forth. But at the end of the day, lithium will be at least what we believe in. I'm sure that you'll see the same thing as will be the winner. And Christopher Eccleston, I'm going to throw you up on the panel here. You're going to step in for Chris Reed, please. I knew this panel was missing the kickoff catalyst for the conversation. And Christopher, I'm going to put you right on the spot and I'm going to ask you about the electric vehicle demand because as we both know, Chris Reed has been a prolific speaker on the EV demand actually being very conservative and we're not asking people. I think he does a story actually about they asked the wrong question. What is it that they don't ask? What is it that people want instead of what is it that people need? And if they did, the EV numbers would be through the roof. So I'd like you to comment on that. Yeah, a lot more people would have EVs if they could afford them in the West. China is setting itself out now to produce EVs that are going to be cheap as well as a replacement for the normal combustion engine in China because of its pollution problems, because of its dependency on foreign oil, which a few people mentioned, but that makes China potentially vulnerable in the long term. So there's a double reason for China to do that. In the West, we've seen fluctuating fortunes for electronic vehicles. Well, electric vehicles, when the price of oil got to over 100, there was quite a strong motivation for people to cut back and cut back on their petrol purchases and move over to electronic. That electric, and that's not happening at the moment. That motivation is not there. And of course, Tim, like I said, you're relatively new and you've been brought on Lithium-X to get them to the next level, correct? Well, I hope so, yes. OK, so you would be an excellent person then to talk to about the predictions for the growth of electric vehicles coming from more of an American standpoint. Can you comment on that? Well, I think first of all, I agree with what has been said today and by people yesterday that China is going to drive the market. I can tell you having spent much of the past 10 years talking to institutional investors in the States, particularly because I was with an American company, their belief was that China is going to drive the market for all the obvious reasons. I think that part of the problem with the electric car in the United States is, as pointed out yesterday, range anxiety. So far, a Tesla is a great car. But even with 250 miles of range, it limits you in a lot of places. It's OK in Washington, OK in the New York area still even. But if you have a summer home in the Hamptons, you may be stuck trying to get out there and find a good place where you can charge it, assuming you don't have your own charger, et cetera, et cetera. So again, I do think, though, that when Tesla or others produce, I wouldn't bet against them. If they have a $40,000 car, I think a lot more people are going to be buying it and using it as a second vehicle. Again, most Americans have, and North Americans, Canadians, have two cars. So the other thing is, which I think the United States really needs to think about, and I try to work on this in government relations at my last job, is an energy policy that promotes the use of electric technology for the reason that was just mentioned before. That really, it limits your, it makes you less dependent on foreign oil. Even though, I mean, obviously, we have a lot of oil in the United States. But still, ultimately, the more oil we consume, the more clout the people who don't like us have. So that's kind of our very conventional view, I think. Well, I want to come back to you about that. But I want to go to Carlos. Everybody here in this room knows Constantine Carinopoulos. And we know you have some big heavyweights in Neolithicum. So what we'd like to know is where your target audience is for Neolithicum? In terms of investments? Off-take agreements and users. Well, off-take agreements, we've been to China about six times over the last six months. We've been to Europe about four or five times. And we're not looking for anyone specific. We'll get the best deal possible, be that in China or be that in Europe. What we want to do is specifically, as a lithium developer or exploration company coming online, is to associate ourselves with a group that will help us through the feasibility. And to give you an idea, we don't want to build a feasibility study in a vacuum. As soon as we have the PEA, which we should be in Q3, we want to make sure that we have a strategic or a group of strategic or somebody with us that will help us build whatever we need to build correctly. So the specifications have to be correct. The amount that we're going to produce has to be correct. So we can essentially size up our production accordingly. So we definitely are talking to the Chinese. We're definitely talking to the Koreans and Japanese. And we're also talking to the Europeans. Now, I think everybody's saying that China's going to be number one. I agree. They're the ones that ask the better questions. They're the ones that are more aggressive. They're the ones that want to pay more, at least today. That doesn't mean that the Europeans are not looking at that. In fact, we just came back to talk to one of the largest car manufacturer in Europe. And they're very aggressive. Now, am I going to say they're going to go into mining? No. But they're looking at, if you're the largest car producer with $10 million and you want to go to $13 million, you want to have $3 million cars, you have to be aggressive trying to find your supply in order to meet those. So they've been very public. And we're happy to help them do that, from that VP. So obviously, Constantine and also others in our board have been very important to open those doors. And the conversation that we had have been extremely well received. Well, I can't tell you. I still recall sitting down with Constantine and him giving me a speech about it's who you know for end users, if you're going to survive. And he was one of the only CEOs in the industry that, of course, had revenue in 2000 with new materials. So now, of course, I'm going to go to next source here. Where's your target audience? Are you looking at the Chinese market as well, Brent? And what is your forecast on the EV market? Oh, OK. Two big questions. So no, we're not looking to China. So we've now been established with two significant firms, non-Chinese, very large. And I think they represent probably 50% of the buying power of Flake Graphite. We've had negotiations at the highest levels now for over three years. So what is happening now is with our phased approach and getting that first 15,000 tons, which effectively has spoken for the two particular parties we're talking to have the ability to go to all the demand markets. So they are very, very heavy in the refractories, also in the electric vehicle market, as well as the foils. So those two particular customers have been staying with us. And all they're waiting for is for us to get into production. And that's what triggers the off-takes. In Graphite, you've probably read out there all these so-called off-takes. No one really has a true off-take. And the reason for that, and I want to state on the record at least for energy, next source, is that they're waiting for someone to actually get into production. At that point, they'll notify their current suppliers and say, OK, we are now switching. No one's going to be depending 100% on one source. They'll be buying from three or four. But to actually go ahead of time and change suppliers unless they know you're up and running does not happen. So we hope right now we get ourselves up and running. In the next couple of months, we'll be able to show the market that here we do have off-takes. And you guys will recognize those names. And I think they'll add a lot of credence to where we need to go. In terms of electric vehicle market, I truly believe it's coming. Again, I was very clear yesterday that I believe that could be five years away. If you're a mine that's going to open up in the next year or two, your markets will be the traditional markets, at least for the Graphite side. That's 65% of going to refractories and consume electronics for foils. So you need to be able to sell that product. Our plan is to sell that in about nine months time. It is not to electric vehicle market. Absolutely, we'll be planning on doing that and building that into our value add. But right now, our project is economical selling to the traditional markets, which is $1,000 a ton. OK, I'm going to put, did everyone just bear with me? We're going somewhere here. And Christopher, coming back to your cheat sheet notes that you have here. OK, we're going to. But what I want to do is put Adrian Griffin on the spot here because he's done magnificent work with negotiating with the Chinese. And I'd like you to comment on the electric vehicle market and battery materials. I think Christopher made a pretty pertinent comment. And if you look at the year on year expansion of the EV market in the Western world, it's actually been a contraction over the last 12 months. And that's been driven by cheaper fuel. So we're not seeing what people have predicted for a long period of time. Now, that's going to change, of course. There'll be a balance between fuel pricing and the attractive pricing of EVs. And I think, longer term, we're going to see a technology change there, too, which will get rid of the range anxiety. I was mentioning some of that yesterday. And I think that will revolve around changes in battery technology, battery chemistry, which might even see cobalt disappear from many of the batteries. So that's where I see the EV market in the Western world. It's going to change. There's no doubt about that. And with the legislative changes, particularly in Europe and Scandinavia, we will start to see a bit of a catch up regardless of fuel price, I guess. The Chinese market, the first time I went to China, which is many years ago now, everyone used to pedal push bikes. You go there now, and no one moves their legs when they get on a push bike. It's just battery powered bike after battery powered bike. Now, I think that's the advantage of having a communist regime, to some extent, that they are providing incentives. But to a large extent, they simply told what they've got to do. So if you've got that sort of regime, there's absolutely no doubt that EVs are going to proliferate. They are going to save a lot of problems. With respect to... Sorry. OK, team, dream team, I need short answers here. We've got to have a bit of a debate. If all you give three to five minute answers, we're all going to go into a coma, all right? So yes or no, do we have conservative electric vehicle forecast? And do you think that we're going to have more, what do you call, algorithmic growth here in demand for EVs out of China, because you go there all the time? Oh, China, there's no doubt. There's going to be expanding growth in China. So the answer is yes, right? Fabulous. Let me think on that. I can feel Carlos. No, you hold the microphone because you're going to handle the audience for me. I can feel Carlos has an opinion on this. And then Carlos, I'd like you to take it. I'd like you to comment on your view of the Elon Musk model for vehicles. Yeah, the answer is yes. I mean, you can see any research. Research say just six months ago, 4% of the entire car fleet was going to be EV. And all of a sudden, they doubled it to 8%. So what happened in six months? I don't know. A couple of announcements from Volkswagen, Elon, Musk, and the others. So yes, I think it's conservative. The problem is that what's the price? What's the price of all the lithium? And there's just not going to be enough of it to, in my opinion, to meet all these demands. And that includes, when we talk about Elon and Tesla, my view is that he's great for the industry. I love him because he promotes all of us. And that's great. But he's not going to be the winner here. I mean, I think there's a lot of other companies that are going to just smooth right in and take even a better approach than he has, including the Chinese, including Volkswagen, including all the others. So I believe that their cars, for example, their batteries, the way I understand their batteries in the car, it's an old, can I say this, the way the batteries are connected, there are many places where these batteries can essentially overheat and potentially catch fire. Now, all these points that are within the battery, I believe that at some point, we will see risk associated with that. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it could happen. And there's other potential types of cars and battery or BMSs that are much better off, at least in my opinion, than Tesla now. Tesla, obviously, of course, has the big name and the promotion behind it. But I don't really believe it. Maybe I'm the bad guy in the room here, but I don't believe that Elon's going to be the winner at the end of the day. They're going to move out. Tesla's not going to be a car manufacturer, I can't agree with you. Now, one of the comments I make, I mean, Tesla is a halo brand. So Tesla, I believe, sees it. It's a high, high-quality car. Conserves reports ranked at number one. We look at that and as an average consumer, that is what gives you the confidence that the new bioelectric vehicle is going to work. I came back from China two months ago, met with one of the largest producers of battery EVs, and they said the following to us, we have failed in the internal combustion engine. We will not fail in the electric vehicle. China sold more electric vehicles last quarter than Tesla sold globally all year. So when they, again, I told you guys about 500,000 vehicles will double the graphite space. 500,000 vehicles, period. So Tesla has plans for 500, Volvo has plans for a million, Bolt for Chevy has the same, you have Nissan at 8 million. These ones are significant. So again, the perforation of electric vehicles, I'll put it this way, they either work or they don't. You're not gonna see a 1% or 10% penetration. It's either gonna be 50% penetration in 10, 20 years, or it's gonna be a failure. I don't think anyone in this room believes that electric vehicles are going to fail at this stage. I would put a slightly more conservative spin on it, but one of the lithium companies calculated that if you add up the targets of all of the governments worldwide, it comes to 17.5 million electric vehicles on the road by 2020. So these are all of their announced targets. And I would just suggest, well, there's an old Chinese proverb, he who forecasts the best forecast often. And I don't think we'll get there, but I think the most powerful message is, if we get 10 or 20% there, you should buy lithium cobalt and graphite. I could just add, I would be conservative about growth in the United States short term, near to medium term. And really, since I've been in the lithium business, our projections to the investment community have always been very conservative. Having said that, there is still enough demand, as was just said for all of the products needed for batteries that it's still worthwhile to develop new lithium sources. We're certainly a believer in that. So I think there's gonna be plenty of demand for lithium, regardless of whether it takes us two years, five years, six years to start to see a significant amount of electric vehicles on the road in the States or in North America. I also do think that Europe is going to be a big driver because of the regulatory climate there is, in addition to gasoline being more expensive, more heavily taxed, the governments in Germany, France, et cetera, are pushing more towards more efficient vehicles, use of electric technology. And the other thing that is important over there is the university system is encouraged by Germany to work with the companies. And so I'm confident about the lithium business. So Christopher's gonna put these mattery materials in order of which one will be most in demand. I'm gonna corner you. Yes, indeed. So we have three metals, three metals, minerals. You're sitting at the graphite table, so. Yeah, I know. I don't know which side I should be sitting at here. But why are you feeling defensive there? We have three minerals that are going into this mix here. At least in the short term, as Brent has pointed out, it's refractories at the tail that wag that dog. It's not the batteries. And it won't be for at least five years. At the moment, the metal that's moving on the battery story is cobalt. Lithium had its rise last year and then stabilized. The cobalt surge is still going ahead. Cobalt is the most vulnerable to this issue. You must pause to the last panel today to go on about that. So you've got lithium and graphite. Give us the goods on lithium and graphite, because we're all investors here. We all have positions in both lithium and graphite companies. I mean, what's going on? Is the demand going to be as intense as insiders in this industry? I don't want to use the term insiders, but as people in the technology metal sector, the graphite industry, it looks to me like that's got a surge here. We should have a bull market. There's two different dynamics here. You've got China that's got a weak exposure to lithium. They hardly have any. So that's why they're mainly having to import it. China is the biggest player in graphite. So they've actually got their arms around global graphite and the Western players that are going to be added are going to be supplying the Western market more than the Chinese market, IPASY, in the long term. But that's a great market to have, because what we do have in the short term is China is going to be the vast majority of the electric vehicles. I agree with what the other speakers have said here. Western adoption is really poor. I mean, there's a perception in North America that the Europeans are very progressive. Yeah, sure, you go to Norway. Norway has a government policy to have a lot of charging stations. Go to the UK. How do anyone has HEVs, let alone EVs? There's just not much push. And that's despite the fact that fuel prices are double what they are in North America. So despite higher fuel prices, Europeans have not been big adopters and they really have to have a government gunner against their head before they'll do it. And the government isn't putting the gun against their head because if it does it, and the diesel Christ, diesel gate is a good example. A lot of people have diesel cars in Europe. The government knows that if it wants to get them off the road, it's gonna have to pay people money. If you want people to give up their cars that can last 10 years, in the next five years, you're gonna have to pay them to give up those cars. Adrienne, I feel like you have a comment here. Yes, no? Or do you want to give, let me give it back to Greg Bose, who's gonna talk about the difference in graphites and how the Chinese may not have is impressive graphite, correct? The, I think the biggest announcement that came out of the graphite business last year was the Chinese government announcing that they're going to create a graphite stockpile equal to 80% of their annual production. Now, you can pretty well bet they're not gonna stockpile the lower quality grades and the stuff that's in oversupply whereas non-battery grade. So I would say that effectively means over 100% stockpile for the higher quality grades. Would you do that if you thought you did not have a supply problem and you had all kinds of graphite? I would suggest you probably wouldn't. I would say that the Chinese are maybe tired of selling their natural resources cheaply to the rest of the world while incurring a huge environmental cost to do so. They don't wanna sell us graphite. They wanna sell us batteries or they wanna sell us electric cars and they're creating a stockpile. I won't go into the dynamics of the Chinese graphite production because we don't have time. I would just say if you're a battery maker or a car maker outside of China, you should be very worried about that. So based on what Christopher's just saying then, stocks for instance, like Carlos and Adrian have lithium companies where you have relationships with the Chinese would be advantageous, correct? Oh, my view is for lithium companies what they gotta do is bypass China. One of the biggest problems that Chinese have at the moment is the imposter they've got on exports if you're looking at lithium chemicals. So if you're a lithium company, the thing to do is produce a lithium chemical and not a concentrate and bypass China and go direct to the end user, which are gonna be the North Americans, the Europeans, the Japanese and the Koreans. I can go and have a comment on that. Yeah, I agree with that but just for the sake of not agreeing too much. The Chinese, the majority of them are not miners. So they're looking at us to provide the lithium carbonate. So they say, look, I mean, I'll give you the money but you gotta do it, I mean, I don't know how to do it. I know how to do other stuff but not that. I know how to do batteries and I had to do cathodes and this and that. So you do it. For us as a lithium company, obviously that puts the risk back on us. Yeah, the financing risk taking care of but the operating risk is back on us. Now, Lithium America's obviously did a different type of deal where they associated some of the SQM and now they found they're part of the financing from the Chinese. That was a good deal for them but now the risk here is SQM is ever gonna build that mine. So that's a risk but independent of that, I think that the operational risk is there on the SQM side. Also, the Chinese, when you say to, obviously avoid them, when you look at the capex in China, as you know, I'm sure, to build an operating plant, let's say in Argentina or Chile, wherever that may be in our world, it costs three, four, five times more than to build it in China. So there is obviously a cost benefit to shareholders and to everybody to potentially partner JB or whatever that may be in China and build a plant much cheaper there and give them money back to the show instead of trying to build something more expensive. I'm not saying all of it is like that but I'm saying a huge part of the business, obviously it's important in that front. So that's just my view. So, Tim, we're talking about the US and maybe the demand for electric vehicles may not be as great because it's a large country. So what about this off the grid, on the grid and all of these, you know, the consumer that wants to have a battery and live their own life and not be tapped into the electrical infrastructure? Can you talk about storage batteries? I am talking about storage batteries. Certainly Rockwood, my former employer, forgive me for talking too much about them but they certainly believe that if we could sell good, if the industry were to develop good lithium storage batteries the profit opportunity would be very good there because what you need is reliability. The only hesitation I have about how quickly that could grow or how big it could be is that, again, the people who use batteries are pretty conservative and the thing about a lithium battery for a vehicle is it's light. Same thing for your phone, a lithium battery is great but the battery industry itself is still leaning towards older technologies for storage. So I mean, I don't have an answer to that personally. I can say how clever it is to keep referring to what a coup it was for lithium acts to get you on their team. Well, they got two other smarter guys and then the smarter guys said, hey Tim, why don't you join? So I'm sure, do you have a comment, Tom, battery storage? Yeah, just to give the size of the markets. I mean, electric vehicles are the, it's out there. I mean, it's the thing that we can all see. You should see the forecast for large scale energy storage. They dwarf cars. So these are batteries that sit under bunkers. For example, the Canadian Redox batteries, lithium batteries, so you can solve for batteries. All these, especially the lithium ones, they just take more and more of the cathode and the anodes that you'd find in a car. And the projections, when I came again back from Japan and China just most recently, it is mind boggling, but you don't hear about this. These things are extremely industrial. For example, in Japan, they have football fields of Canadian batteries sitting under the ground and they'll power a few buildings in Japan, but you never hear about it. It's not sexy, but the amount of these energy minerals that are sitting in there are extremely impressive. So if you believe in the electric vehicle movement, you should be as investors, equally excited if not more on the large scale energy storage. That is the future. It's billions and billions and billions of dollars in markets and all that stuff is happening underground. Electric vehicles, we talk about because we see them, we drive them and they're tangible, we wanna use them, but the energy storage, all of us could easily and think of the applications in third world countries that this can help. And that's where governments right now are seeing Australia, Canada, the United States, especially Japan, move into those energy storage systems. If I could just add one thing, when I look at the lithium market and the potential for growth, I don't simply look at electric vehicles, I certainly, and I'm basically agreeing with what he just said. There's storage, there's electric bikes, buses, certainly buses would be a great thing to have in any city, and they are moving that way. So I would look at the whole potential uses of lithium in the future and battery materials generally and think that provides a great opportunity for all of us. Yeah, I would just, just to emphasize that point, lithium ion battery business is $20 billion a year and is growing at over 20% a year. What else is in this economic climate? And that market is still predominantly small devices. EVs have barely started, grid storage has barely started. What about the replacement of lead starter batteries? There's all kinds of, those are three huge, huge markets and lithium ion batteries only need a small share of them to continue that 20% growth. So again, I don't see, for example, electric vehicles being a revolution. It's an evolution, gradually it'll permeate into society as will all these other things and that growth will collectively continue. So what I'd like to do now is I'm gonna put Christopher on the spot. Christopher, you know all the four of these companies, yes? Do you know all four? No. Which of these companies do you know? I know these two. Great, I'm gonna challenge you to saying something nice about both of these companies, go. Well, Brent was hiding his light under a bushel there when he was talking about the Vanadium Radox because of course he has one of the largest Vanadium resources in the world in the form of the green giant deposit there in Madagascar. Can you reach in closer to the microphone please? Cause I'm interested, we wanna hear what you're saying. So he's got this gigantic Vanadium resource there in Madagascar, which he's keeping for a rainy day. And Northern Graphite are moving towards some production as well, you know, be one of the first North American additions in the production area. Okay, and because you're so scary smart, as we refer to you, can you ask Carlos and Tim a question or two here and then see if you can ascertain something really nice to say about them? You gotta know them, I mean they had that. Give me something nice to say because I love to tell my wife that somebody had something nice to say about me, you know? So also my children, they're pretty critical, so. I've seen Christopher chug out, you know, 30 pages of research in one day. I think you can handle a couple of questions here with these gentlemen. My mind is a blank. It's a fry. If you don't, I'll change it. Okay, fine, thank Carlos. Do you have any technology patents with Neolithicum? I'm gonna ask you some questions cause, you know, usually the panelists that we have here are all investor intel members. But do you have a technology patent or two with Neolithicum? No, we don't. We intend to do simple solar evaporation which is the most well-known way of doing things in the brain sector, so no, we don't. Well, I can say something nice about your company. We're watching it because I as an investor am always watching management who's moving where. I mean, there was a stock that became a client of investor intel that I noticed because I found out Adrian had invested in that company. Okay, so Tim, would you like to give us kind of a sell something nice to say about Lithium-X? I mean, I'll be honest with you, we're a little incredulous that the stock can continue to move north. I mean, up a thousand plus percent in one year as far as we're concerned, that seems like we missed the boat. Tell us why we're still have an opportunity to get in now. Well, again, the most important thing is that our goal is to become not just a land owning company, but a production company. So again, with any luck at all within a year and a half or so, we will have 2,500 tons of output. And our eventual goal is to get up to 20,000 tons of output of high-purity brine. And that will give us really a substantial amount of revenue, which will allow us to get with other partners, maybe go into Lithium-carbon production. I think that the thing that I would say that's most important right now is that we have a lot of knowledge. It is not easy having spent 10 years traipsing through the desert in both the Atacama and Clayton Valley. I do know that it's not easy to produce Lithium with the brine method. It's what it really takes as a lot of, you could call it artistry, but you need to have the right mixture of brines and you need to be able to monitor the system as it goes through the stages, so that you get out the valuable by-products at the right stage that you don't waste them and that in the end you end up with a five to six percent brine solution that has retained as much of the Lithium as possible. It's very easy to lose the Lithium in the process if you don't mix the brines properly from the different wells you're using. And the team we have has had a lot of experience in that. In fact, I would say it's no exaggeration that our COO really developed the Atacama method in Chile. And there was nothing in the desert when he went there, so that's the best thing we have going for us, I think expertise. Okay, well again, we have a lot of what you call brain power on this panel. Does anyone have any questions about battery materials? Processes, extraction, forecast? You got the experts right in front of you. Okay, we'll ask one more question. Christopher, Lithium and graphite this year, prices, up or down? You don't have to give me a percentage and we'll let everyone on the panel. I would say that they're gonna be lightly up. Lightly up, both? Lightly up, yeah, I didn't see any reason for major uplift, but I didn't see any reason for them to go down. Well, because I mean, listening to this panel, I'm super excited about graphite, but Greg's arguments always get me interested in graphite, so great. Graphite and Lithium, up or down this year? Well, on the graphite price, I've been wrong for a year and a half now, so there's no point changing my opinion now. You know, graphite's kind of been the poor sister among the three minerals, because Cobalt and Lithium have already taken off. Graphite has not yet. I think it will start this year. I think if you remember, 2012, the graphite price was way up because of steel demand. Chinese economy slowed, steel business cratered, graphite price came down, and that has masked what has happened on the battery side, where batteries have gone from almost nothing to a third of the flake market in five or six years. And so that is going to show up in prices, I hope, this year. And didn't the consultant for Tesla, wasn't he a fan of Northern? He was, he was. He was here last year. I think he's too busy now dealing with Tesla issues. And what about you, Brent? What do you think? Well, I agree with Greg. And I'll agree with Christopher. The prices have actually stabilized. We are seeing now requests coming internally from the traders and some of the people who buy, especially the battery side, has certainly gone up about 10%. And now you're starting to see the flake for refraction, he's going up about three or 4%. One interesting trend that I thought was fascinating when I came back from Japan was that the actual batteries are now using more natural flake graphite than they are synthetic. And that was not the case five years ago. If you go back to 2006, it was 100% synthetic. And now you're seeing about a 52 to 48%. And the actual composition of a Tesla battery is more natural graphite than it is synthetic. And why is that? Because you get characteristics for both. And natural graphite gives you higher capacity, which is range in a car. And the fact that these companies, and there's one in particular in China that's actually experimenting right now with a 90% natural, 10% synthetic battery. So I see that trend being just wonderful for the graphite side. And I'm sure you can talk to Brent a little bit later. He'll explain additional advantages to you. So what do you think, Tim? About pricing. Well, I don't like to predict pricing short term any more than I like to predict where the stock is going. But I think it's pretty clear that supply demand near to medium term is going to be in favor of the Lithium producers. And I think somebody said it yesterday, there's plenty of sources of Lithium, but there are bottlenecks all through the chain from getting from the raw material source to the eventual. You don't think we have too much supply? I mean, there's a lot of people saying that we had a Lithium bull market, it's over. We have, you know, say you're going to negate that. You know, longer term, no. I mean, I have my own money in the stock. A lot of our insiders have a lot of money in the stock. And no, I am, you know, longer term bullish on Lithium. And Carlos, what do you think? Well, I'm very bullish. And there's, I mean, I guess I think it was somebody yesterday that explained that the Lithium pricing is different. Everybody tends to look at spot prices in China, which are not the reality in many other places. For example, long-term contracts in Chile and Argentina are between anywhere between eight and 10 or 11,000. Then you've got Spadgemeen almost getting up to 1,000 in Australia, which is also good for us. But long-term, I agree that, you know, depending on what happens on the demand side, if all these car manufacturers do what they're going to do, I mean, price is going to move depending on how much demand for cars are going to be. So in my view, either if there's not enough, the price is going to go to 20 or more. If there's not many cars being produced, then price is just going to drop. I mean, I really don't have no view in terms of reality. But my own interpretation of where the market is going is that prices will maintain for the next year and change too. There's some capacity coming on. But after that, we'll see how all these car manufacturers tend to go out and start building these EVs. I would second the one point he just made about people in the lithium business who buy steadily, they want secure supply of high quality material. And certainly my experience at the last company was that our customers were willing to pay good money to us for a good secure long-term supply. And I would be remiss if I didn't give Adrienne a few words here. Adrienne, your thoughts. You're going to tell everybody what you tell me off the record or you're going to give us the political answer? Oh, the guy, I've always been concerned, as you're well aware, about the supply side. And it's a matter of whether demand can outstrip that supply. But if you have a look at what's happening at the moment, of course, you've got Chinese moving outside China to get the advantage of not having to pay that 37% impost on moving lithium chemicals out, and that's Tianchi building a refinery in Perth. Why are they doing that? It's tax-driven, so they can sell to Japan. So, but with respect to the supply, if the spodgermen operations expand at the rate that they've got on the books at the moment, there's going to be a glut. It's that simple. Okay, short-term, long-term, what are we talking about? Because as an investor, I'm more of a short-term player. I mean, a year and a half is a long-time hold for me. Well, have a look at Greenbushes, and we had a bit of a discussion on this yesterday. They are building the first expansion, which is a doubling of a mine that is currently pumping 40% of the world's lithium demand into the market, and they're going to double it. And they've already, as I understand it, already got stage two under design and ask for expressions of interest on stage three. And if they build all of that, that's 240% of current annual demand. That's a fair bit of lithium. Well, again, I'd like to thank everybody. Thank you, Adrienne, for stepping in. I would have had you on the panel if I had a few more minutes to plan the agenda. So thank you so much for stepping in today.