 Well, we're back, back at it and good morning Betsy and Helen. We, Senator Polina will be with us in a matter of moments and I, we wanted to talk about, you know, the food situation and, and local grown and, and all those good things. See how the, you know, your, it went this past year and what we should be doing to move to, you know, this year and get, get going on it before we, before the boat sales. So welcome and I don't know, do you want to lead off Betsy or have. I'm sure I can say a few words and then Rosie Kruger is on so she can better give an update on the applications to the local purchasing incentive, which the deadline just passed this weekend. So we're really excited. I would say that the agency of education received 30 applications, which means over half of those s use applied already at just in this first opening round. So we were really pleased about that level of interest. We're also super excited that the governor in his budget has funded the aoe position for administering the program and the local purchasing incentive at the amount we feel is correct, which is 500,000. It's still one time funding. And I think for schools to be able to change their systems and change their purchasing, they're going to want to count on more funding than one time funding, not knowing whether that's going to continue or not. And I think that that level of interest just adds to our request that we fully fund the farm to school and early childhood grants program. So to be able to provide the kind of support to schools, especially the ones that haven't applied yet, you know, making sure that they can set up systems, they know which products will be eligible where to connect and buy them, follow the rules for procurement, you know, all that stuff in all the states like Oregon and Michigan and New York. The schools successful have a lot of technical assistance and support in those early years until things get going. And at this point, we looked at the grants program, the farm to school and early childhood grants, and in FY 21, only about 24% of the funds that were requested were able to be awarded. So, you know, there's a lot of demand out there that we're not meeting. And I guess I might stop there if there's particular questions and maybe Rosie can give a more detailed update. Good morning Rosie. Good to see you. Good morning. So 30, you've had 30 applications and. So I do actually want to correct that a little bit. We'd initially told the advocates 30 before we removed duplicates so we actually received 23 applications. Yeah. And I should just say for the record Rosie Kruger State Director of Child Latrition Programs Agency of Education. What was that senator. How many, how many issues do we have that could apply. It's about 52, I think I don't. I work with a bunch of independent schools as well so I think in terms of the total number of school food authorities. But I think it's around 50 or 52 s us who could have applied. Yeah, so. So that. So would you say that that we've had close to 50% so far. I will say looking at the list, the s us who applied are generally the, the better provisioned s us who have the staff dedicated who had time to do this. We're not seeing some of the highest poverty schools, who have really been struggling recently and that's a downside of any grant program, as we talked about last week. So if we with those applications that we received, we've actually exceeded the allocation. So if we fully funded the 23 we received at 15 cents per meal served last year, we would require $542,947. So instead we're going to have to pre pro rate as as listed in the legislation. We're going to have to pro rate those award amounts to about 13 point 13.18 cents per lunch served last year instead of 15. So, so we need to work on, we need to work on the funding a little bit, as well as helping some school districts, maybe a little more to get them on board to to take advantage of this. I mean, I think with any grant program it's it's up to the way it's set up as it's up to the SFA about whether the value of the funding is, is worth their ability to put towards it and applying. And if they don't have the people there to sit down and write the application then they're not going to apply. I will also say that the first year of the grant is very simple we, you know you all intentionally structured it that way. The grants are much more complicated and require a lot of extensive tracking and require a lot of follow up an auditing on the agency's part. So I would expect, I was surprised, frankly that so few applied for the first year given that it is a fairly simple application for the first year, but also not surprised given the constraints on the schools at this moment. For the first year I would expect to see probably those remaining folks, assuming things have eased up a little bit for them. Those remaining folks who didn't apply for the first year I would expect to see them apply. I would expect to see some folks who applied for the initial year drop off next year, because they determine either that they're not eligible based on their purchases for the current school year, or they determine that it's too much work and it's not feasible. Chris. Thank you, Rosie. So, just back to the amount of money for the people that are going to get the award. Are my right that we had a half a million in there so that we're 40,000 shy of being able to give them the 15 cents is that the math or could you help us just under 43,000 shy. I think, if we want to, you know, from where I sit, I'd like this to be robust and permanent, but that's not the way the legislature works. And so we, we sort of inch forward as much as possible but we're starting, you know, clearly, there's no demand there. But as you say, this is the easy year and people will be making this calculation in an ongoing way. I guess the cost benefit analysis versus do we actually pay them the 15 cents is a pretty big factor for moving forward so if we were able to get 43,000 added to budget adjustment, would that would you would that what's the timeline to help you guys say okay good we can do the 15 cents. I'll start with we have a statutory deadline in terms of when we need to pay out the grant, and it's pretty quick. I don't actually have it at my fingertips. I don't know if if that's your Helen have it in front of them. I want to say that it's March. So it's going to take us a couple weeks to get grant agreements together. So we need to know in the next week or two that this was happening because we wouldn't want to send grant agreements out for the lower amount and then have to revise them later. Well, we, we actually have the rest of this week and part of next week before we vote the supplemental but it will be right away so I would say by the end of January. We should know if we can get the extra 40,000 or not so that that would put us in a pretty good window for you to be able to operate if you know by the end of January. Yeah, I see that that Helen put in March 31 is our deadline to make the payments. So if we know by the end of January, that would give us appropriate time to get grant agreements out and make those payments. And I do want to highlight again for you though that, you know, in terms of your value of where is this money best spent. This is not necessarily going to the highest need schools. This is going to the schools that already have the capacity to do this. Well, you know we welcome enough money to to facilitate other schools all the schools doing it right that the goal here is is long been for, from my point of view, to make this as standard as possible across the state but this is the Senate committee and in terms of helping the farming community. I think there's compete not competing interest but broadly, we need local food and schools. And, and, you know, I think if you're just looking from an agricultural economic impact, maybe the, the which schools are applying is secondary that's not necessarily where my values are but our goal is to bake this into the ag economy I think. Yeah, talk to me about this sort of dependability question this is a theme for me that I think we need to try and work on, and the law and the, the ramping up and that the the out years that is the law. Then the question is of funding sources and, and are you hearing Rosie or for any of our witnesses that is it. I mean the law is the law so that's dependable the funding less dependable at this moment. So that part of the calculation for people. I mean, from where I sit. We've kind of committed to the funding we just haven't. We haven't put the line item in, but the policy commits to the funding to some degree so I wonder if you could just comment on that Rosie and then and then our other witnesses. Yeah, that was certainly a little bit of a conversation at the agency. And I don't fully understand this, but it seems like some of the language, maybe wasn't quite right. But I understood that your intention was for this to be a permanent position at the agency to manage the grant program and a permanent, a permanent grant program and then the funding levels might vary. But there was something about the way that the position was written that made it a little unclear that that was meant to be permanent and I don't. I don't have language to suggest you because I'm not really sure what that was but I know that that was a little bit of a question. And I think that's what Betsy was was alluding to as well. In terms of the school's willingness to apply based on understanding that this is a permanent program. It is a little bit of a risk that they're taking because the way that it is structured, the grant payout and whether they're eligible next year is based on what they do this year. So they have to make a decision this year okay we're going to take that risk and purchase more local foods even though they're more expensive in the hopes that this will make us eligible for a payout next year. If suddenly you know there's big budget cuts and you know only 250,000 is available next year, and they've made that calculation based on assuming that they're going to get the full amount of 15 cents per lunch. That would be a hit to them and might cause them to be, you know, they may be thinking about that when they decide whether to apply or not. But we don't know what ability you have to budget for multiple years at a time, or to appropriate for multiple years at a time. But I think it's always a question with grant programs and this one in particular because it's a kind of a look back that makes it more complicated. We really don't usually appropriate for two years in last year program, which we want to make this, if we can a permanent thing. So it would be a yearly, you know, budgeted on a yearly basis. But it's always, it's always helpful if the agency involved whether it's you folks that add or ag, if they come in with it in their budget. You know, we usually go for it, unless there's some very severe problems. And as we all know, you know, there's money available now and should be still plenty available down the road. Because our, our Ed fund, our general tax receipts are all, all running very, very strong. None of us know what will happen once all the federal money gets used up and gone. But we're everything we're working on is longevity. So it should keep people working, keep taxes coming in and but, you know, who's got the crystal ball, none of us. So, but to get, you know, to pick up that extra 43,000. You know, it shouldn't. We should be able to get that for you. So, I don't know what the other members think, but we got finance represented here and in government ops and and so there should be. Maybe 43,000 available somewhere. Chris. Well, I would just say, you know, we're giving grants of 43,000 to single businesses. This is, this is really trying to to help a segment of our ag economy and so shame on us if we can't come up with that money. I hope we will plan for success and and see if we, you know, try everything we can to really lock this in for the years ahead and it's just such a no brainer I can't. Just takes us hard Rosie you've schooled me and all of us in how complex it is and how much the feds tie your hands and all that and there's good people working on this but it's just far too sensible and and when I think about the bit the grant the money we're granting to businesses across the board. You know, this is almost an embarrassingly small some frankly. Nice. Well, keep moving forward with that. They saw your employee. Rosie is it's on a temporary basis, not a permanent. No, no, the position is a permanent position and was created that way. I think that was your intention and it's written as a permanent position but there was something about how that was funded that was just the language wasn't quite right to say that this is intended to be funded permanently and I don't really. This is not my side of things. So I don't fully understand what the language is, but the agency could probably work with Ledge Council to figure out what that issue was, and get you some updated language there. Well, I wonder if that'll float through education and then back to appropriations or, or, but we need a probably we should have a something on that a letter or something to get that straightened out or. Right as Brian, as Brian mentioned anything Danny of you folks about that Brian. Camp camp camp camp you. Have you talked with him in regards to that Rosie and education or. No, this is a fairly recent thing that's come up so I, you know, we hired the position it's it's hired as a permanent position but I think there was some question about funding. in the governor's request for this year to be funded for this year, but I think the agency was maybe thinking we needed a little bit of a change to make sure that that was an ongoing funding thing. I don't know what that change is. I'm sorry. That will probably then come up when we have the secretary in front of, I hope, in front of appropriations that that needs, that language needs to be adjusted. So do you have access to your financial people, Rosie? I can let them know that you are asking about this and ask them what the language would need to be and we can because it's available. When, you know, usually when I have the secretary come before appropriations, he'll say, well, we need this tweet or that tweet to make it all work and then we just do it. But it'd be good if you could mention that to your superiors and then they'll maybe look at it and tend to it. I can do that. Okay. Other questions for Rosie or Rosie, do you have other? I actually have to jump off. I have another meeting Wednesdays are a pretty busy day at Child Nutrition Land, but I can say for just a minute more, but I need to head off in a second. Anything else for Rosie for many of the members? If not, thanks, Rosie, for being with us and all you do over there. We appreciate it. Take care. So Betsy, did we want to move to Helen to have, would you want to tell us, Helen, how things went with Nova and how that's all working out this program is all working out for you folks? Yeah, sure. Thank you, Senator. Good morning, everyone, for the record, Helen Rothfett, the Farmers School Program Director at NOFA Vermont, which is a Farmers School partnership with Children Farms. And we at NOFA have had the privilege this fall of working with schools and SFAs to apply for this inaugural round of funding. We did outreach to all 50 some odd of the of the Supervisory Unions in school districts that would be eligible to apply and got a pretty great response overall. We're really pleased to see that, you know, 23 actually ended up submitting an application. We had a number of really great conversations with folks who are very excited about this program, but intentionally decided not to apply this year for a couple of reasons, you know, running the gamut from we just don't have the bandwidth this year because of everything else going on being a really sort of significant reason, which is perfectly understandable. And given the really tight timeline of this year's program, I think it was just hard for people to add one more thing at that time at that busy time of year during a very busy year. There was also a number of schools who have been sort of thinking about the longer term plan and their strategy with interacting with this program and recognizing that there is in your first year that easier threshold to clear. Some schools have sort of started doing the math and looking down the pike a little bit and realizing that, you know what, we could apply for the grant this year and we could get the pilot year funding because it is relatively easy, but we're concerned because it's over halfway through this current school year that we won't get to 15 next year. And so then we would have a gap in our eligibility. So they're thinking, you know what, let's take this year, get our systems in place, get our docs in a row, and we'll put in our pilot year application next year, assuming the program is funded. And then they'll be in a better and stronger position to achieve 15% the year after that. So I think that that's a calculation that a number of SFA's are thinking through and that's a I think a phenomenon we can expect to see. I also do want to lift up and point out what Rosie mentioned that there will likely be some schools who did apply this year and maybe they don't quite hit 15% for next year. So we may see a small drop in the number of schools that are eligible moving forward, but the likelihood, you know, they're not dropping to 0%. They might come in at 13, 14%, something close. And but they're showing that they're they're going to have progress towards that goal. And I've talked with a number of schools that might be in a position like that. And they're comfortable, they understand that it might mean one year of not being eligible for the grant, but then it's just a real small hurdle for them to clear to get to become eligible for a subsequent year. So I think that there's there's a lot of enthusiasm for this program. People really appreciate it. It is exciting. It's something that has rallied school nutrition programs in in an otherwise kind of really stressful time. And I do really appreciate all of the agency's efforts to streamline the application process and make it truly as simple as possible. It really it we have a template of the application that we've posted on the Vermont feed website to show schools and to show business offices exactly how easy it is. So I really want to appreciate that. So any any questions that are coming up? Well, I'm glad to hear you had how many turnout when you were doing your your fall meetings? So we we individually called and emailed all 50 some odd school districts and supervisory unions and you know, not everyone had bandwidth to connect with us, but quite a lot. I'd have to check we have a spreadsheet of notes for everyone that we've reached out to, but it was it was well over half of them that we had specific conversations with. So I'm looking forward to seeing the report from from agency of education when they have time to compile it to see who the actual applicants were and square that with our notes of who we had conversations with to see who ultimately applied and who's maybe thinking about applying next year and they held off. Yeah, question from committee members. Any questions? Chris? Yeah, just just I guess, Helen, I'd love to hear your response to the similar question of Rosie that I put to Rosie in terms of this being the policy in law, the money being, you know, less straightforward. What just helped me understand the calculation like are people looking at this and sort of thinking, I'm not sure the state means it or just what's the attitude that you're picking up out there. And as everyone said, you couldn't have a more intense year in a school cafeteria. I mean, good Lord. So I want to really recognize that and my comment is not at all to suggest people are not trying hard. They're hardest. My hat's off to the folks, but I want to understand from our point of view, from the state policy and funding point of view, what do we need to do to to communicate our seriousness here? Yeah, yeah, thanks for that question. I my sense is that people are confident that you guys mean what you say and that you are going to find a way to fund this program moving forward. We do have those conversations with folks. We do let them know that it is contingent upon funding year in and year out, at least at this point. But I think that isn't what's holding people back more than just the capacity more than anything. I think you've hit the nail on the head. It is just a really, really difficult year. I think also the fact that this program, you know, we're building the plan and flying it to this year. The agency of education hired their new their new position and they got the program up and running in record time. But it still wasn't, you know, the memo wasn't released to schools until later in the fall in the deadline. And in January, so it was a pretty tight scramble for people to make that decision about if they're going to apply this year or wait till next year. But moving forward, we won't have that issue. People now are aware of this program. We've been doing a lot of outreach, having great conversations. A lot of schools are already thinking about this time next year, having their their applications in. So I think they are confident the program is going to be around and they are starting to map out their own strategy that's going to work best for their school districts. And I really wanted to, if it's okay, circle back to the issue that Rosie raised around equity and ensuring that this program works for all of the schools. That is a goal that we have certainly as technical assistance providers to be able to do that outreach and work with the schools that haven't traditionally been served by the Farm to School grants program or other you know, grants that are coming from the AOE. And it's going, it just takes, it takes time to be able to work with those schools and bring them online and help them develop their systems. But I really think this opportunity has the potential to be that game changer, to really bring schools into the fold and get their local purchasing started in a really meaningful way. The offer of actual funding is a great way to open the door for schools to get involved with this. Well, besides offering real good fresh produce, what about how's it, how's it translating with the number of farms or, or produce growers that we have, are they, are they taken part well in, in this program? Yeah, so that's something that we're trying to identify how to, how to track and how to understand the impact of, of this program on our agricultural economy. And it's a work in progress and you know, it's interesting because this grant sends funds to the schools who then make the purchasing decisions and have purchasing relationships. So we are trying to do more in terms of tracking local. I think that's been a challenge for schools for many, many years tracking who they're buying from and what products and what the demand is. But this program incentivizes that practice in a really meaningful way. So once we're a couple of years into the program, we'll have some really meaningful data because schools will be required to track what products they're purchasing and from whom we'll really be able to dig into that question much more meaningfully moving forward and then we can, you know, strategically target certain product areas. And just to make sure that this program is truly working for the benefit of our producers. But our first step that we really need to create some time and capacity for is to, is to develop a, a pre verified product list. I think navigating the, the definition of local that's required by this program is one of the challenges for schools. And as we move forward into these years where they're going to be required to track, there's going to be a lot of need for, for support and getting those systems, those tracking systems running. But those, once they are, will have a lot more data to really understand the impact. Yeah, I'm, Rosie, Betsy. Yeah, and maybe Helen, thank you, Senator. And I apologize for not introducing myself for the record Betsy Rosenbluth, Project Director of Vermont Feed at Shelburne Farms. Maybe Helen can elaborate, but my conversations with school nutrition directors, there's a lot of interest in proteins because that's center the plate. And thinking about how to buy local beef in particular, we know a number of school nutrition programs are switching to local beef. And how that can be more widespread is significant. So in addition to fruits and vegetables, I think that component, as well as dairy, not fluid milk, but other dairy, you know, is there an opportunity to make that easy and clear and eligible product because there's, you know, significant quantities being purchased. So those are some of the categories that we're looking at with the school nutrition directors. Yeah, red meat. We, we tried to push that issue along. And where we're in serious discussions today, even not on a committee, but with the federal meat people and our state meat people. But we've certainly have put a lot of money into our local facilities to process red meat and, and, you know, sheep and, and the whole nine yards. And hopefully, yes, we can hopefully we can get boost that beef market and our local meat products. So schools would be able to buy that because we ran into all kinds of shortages. But last year, and you go to the stores today, and there's still very few selections that you can make at an affordable price for red meat. So, so we need to do we need to do more work on that that she on the language or. Well, I'll leave that question to Helen. Because if we need to strengthen the language to encourage that or, or to make it so that it would be legal to purchase protein, high protein products, you know, we'd be I'm sure the committee be willing to look at that. Yeah, right now, there it's eligible. I think it is a question of sourcing in a cost effective way, and that varies across the state, depending on where you are. Yeah. So I think, you know, we will probably come back to you after a little more experience with whether we need to tweak the definition of local will probably work with the agency of agriculture, just to make sure that the state official definition of local works for the school purchasing world. So we're not prepared this session to make those tweaks. I think we want to learn a little bit more. And maybe next year come back with some suggested ways to make this a little smoother process as we learn. Yeah, I know the food hub or the place in Hardwick was going to set up, I thought a distribution system so they would have like a steady route of delivering out of northern Vermont. Anyhow, I don't know if that ever got up and running or if you know if it got up and is running or not. Yeah, there's a wide network and ever expanding network of regional food hubs in Vermont that have been serving institutions, including the Center for an Ag Economy in Hardwick, I think, which you're referring to. And then also Green Mountain Farm Direct, which is based in Newport in the Northeast Kingdom. They serve a lot of schools in all across northern Vermont with their delivery routes. And then there's food connects down in the Brattleboro region, which serves much of southeastern Vermont, and of course, into neighboring New Hampshire and Massachusetts as well. But this is what's something that's very hopeful about this program is throughout the state, we're seeing more and more of these regional food hubs, aggregators coming online. There's work happening in Rutland and Addison County as well, which will make it easier for schools to access more local products. So I think that is another really wonderful benefit of the timing of this program. It really supports the expansion of these really important local regional distributors. Yeah. Brian, how's that hub working in your area down in Rutland that we went and visited a few years back? It's going very well, Bobby. Yeah. And the farmer's market, of course, continues to operate indoors in the summer or in the winter and outside in the summer. But yeah, it's going very well. And do they have any type of distribution system or do you have to drive there to purchase your products? I don't know the answer to that. Yeah. It really works best for hot lunch programs, school programs if the products delivered to the program on a weekly or even bi-weekly basis. Maybe Brian, you could check that out sometime if you have a minute and see if there's more that we might be able to help them with as far as setting up a little distribution system. Yeah. I could check with Greg Cox. Chris. Yeah, thank you. I want to come back to the durability of this because it would be a real shame to have this be a flash in the pan. So I'm curious, we heard such compelling testimony from the one of the people involved in New York and I know that other states, Michigan, maybe Oregon, New Mexico have done this. Any sense from other places of the durability? Has it been a fad or is it what are we learning or do you have knowledge about what's going on elsewhere? Yeah, I think with almost no exceptions that I'm aware of the programs in other states that are similar to this have just been growing over time. As the word gets out to more and more school districts and as they figure out the systems to be eligible for the funding, that demand remains. Once you have a school in that program, it is to their benefit to continue participating and keep up that level of local purchasing. I know that Oregon, for example, they're probably the nation's first program. They've had a program, I can't remember Betsy, you may know for a number of years and they've been very successful in getting more and more funding as the demand for the program has grown over the years. We've been able to talk with the folks who run that program and the Michigan program and our colleagues over in New York quite a bit as we've been rolling out the program here trying to understand best practices, but really the trend that we're seeing nationwide is once these programs start, there's a lot of demand for them and the demand grows over time. Therefore, the funding to fully support them is growing over time as well, but that just creates more economic impact for all the farmers and producers that are selling to those programs. Other questions? Betsy, do you have anything else that we should hear about on how things are going? I think that's what we have to say today. I would second what Helen's saying in some of these states. I mean, they're talking about a scale like all of the schools, the entire state of Vermont is the equivalent probably of Portland City Schools system or something, but they are putting all these states are putting just millions of dollars into this because they see that win-win and direct return that your committee talks about so much going right back to benefiting the farmers in the state. That didn't just win. My computer just froze up again. Are you there? You're back, yep. Boy, oh boy. It's really fun. So, well, Betsy was just saying what a smart investment this is. You mean internet and broadband? That too. We need work and hundreds of millions are putting into it and I hope to heck it at work so we get done spending all that money. Well, yeah, we really want to support and we do as much as we know how to support our feeding our children, feeding our people with locally produced food and hopefully it'll mushroom and spread and we'll change that 24% to a positive, really a good positive number. So, I think and if there's any more questions, we know that we need to talk about getting funding for the person at the ad department. And then we need to raise the money to pay school districts so we can keep that at the 15 cent level. The only what we've got to do is get someone, we as a committee have got to get some of our staff to draft that up so we can hand it to the Appropriations Committee or present it to them in a formal way. Anything else from questions by any of the members? If not, thanks a lot Betsy and Helen and we'll let you go and get back with it. And Chris? Well, Mr. Chair, a question for you and for others, the committee. I wonder if we should talk to Senator Sorokin and the folks on economic development. I mean, it's so frustrating that this isn't a no-brainer in their mindset and you know, my God, if anyone wanted to cut a few million out of Betsy in a year, the earth would shake and the business community would come and tell you how valuable that all those resources are. And here we're talking about a tiny amount of money for a whole swath of our rural economy. And so I guess I'd just like us to think about strategies that bakes this in a more permanent ongoing way so that we don't have to hope that we can pull it out every session. Well, yeah, that doesn't make any sense that we spend time every year. But, you know, when you're starting something brand new and I think, you know, we've done we've done fairly well from an ag committee to economic development. That crew in the next room, if we were in the building, I think it'd be much easier to accomplish, you know, running next door and chatting with them. Well, if you don't mind, I'll explore that and see if that's something that they consider or if they have any advice for us. No, that's where all the money is, really. So that would be good, Chris. And so with that, thanks a lot, again, to Betsy and Helen and keep up to good work. Thanks so much for having us today. Thank you for your support. Well, we enjoy working with you as well. Well, committee, we have Alan Koehler with us this morning. And we're going to stick with New England feeding New England and talking about food and all those good things. So good morning, Alan, and welcome. Thank you so much for having me. Lovely to see you all. Happy New Year. Hope you're staying COVID free. Oh, nice and comfortable here. And excellent and pretty safe at home. Yeah. So, Mr. Chair, what would you like me to focus on? I do have some slides that I sent to Linda that I'm happy to walk us through or if you have a different pleasure, I'm happy to entertain. Well, no, we don't have any particular process in line. However, you feel comfortable presenting the slides to us. I think Linda made your call host so you can present the slides that your pleasure. And then we'll get through that. And then if there are questions, we'll move on to those. All right. That sounds terrific. So for the record, Alan Koehler, Vermont Sustainable Jobs Fund, and the Vermont Sustainable Jobs Fund, as you well know, administers the Vermont Fund plate program. Thank you very much for continued support and all that. And then as part of that work, over the last at least 10 years, 10 years, I have been having conversations and meeting with our counterparts in the other five New England states. And as I think I mentioned to you last January, I talked with you about this exciting new project called New England Feeding New England, which is now well underway. So I thought I could give you an update on where we are at with the very important research that's being done. Because I know that all of you, as we are too, within the Florida plate, very interested in the ways in which we could expand our local food production so that we can be able to have more security that during times of crisis and emergency that we can have a better chance of feeding ourselves. But also in non-emergency times that we can be providing more of what we produce to other New England states that we could actually create much more of a regional food system. And the other five New England states are also considering similar things. But as is usual, we are the pace setters. We are very much more out in front in terms of the level of coordination and collaboration and impact on the ground that we've been achieving over these last 10 years. And so other states are watching us, they're mimicking us in many ways, and they're gearing up to also increase production, which is a good thing if we think about it from a regional food system perspective. So that's what this frame up is all about. And I'll share the slides here with you. I don't have too many, so I'll move through these fairly quickly. So this is a project that Vermont formed a plate and my shop is very active in. We are actually serving as the fiscal sponsor for the funding that we've raised from the USDA and some foundation partners to support this work. And just as a reminder that this project, our goal is to consider what would it take in terms of regional food production to get to a point where 30% of all the food consumed in New England was actually produced, harvested, or caught from within New England, right? So it's a 30 by 2030 kind of goal. And you may or may not have heard that we are very close to announcing what our local food counts are for just Vermont. And we are going to land somewhere between 17 and 17.8% of local food consumption. And that's up from about 5% in 2010 when we first started Farm2Plate. So we've made a huge improvement. It's north of $400 million a year in local food consumption that we're doing here in Vermont. But 17% is still a ways away to get to 30% by 2030. And we think other states are not close to where we are at 17%. So they have an even farther distance to travel. So this project. Is that 17% of the total food consumed? Yes. Boy, that's a big number then. It is. It has grown a lot. Back in 2010, at 5%, that's about $110 million worth of local food sales. And we're projecting from having done the 2020 local food counts work that we're going to be north of 400,000, I'm sorry, 400 million is what that 17% represents. Well, Ellen, is that a percentage of dollars spent or calories in take? Dollars spent, sales, yep. Okay, thanks. Yep. And that's both in the home, food consumed in the home and outside of the home, so restaurants. And the reason I don't have a final number for you is Jake is doing one last final check with some restaurants on a data point. And so we are getting ready to formally announce the final 2020 totals. So excited about that. So the purpose of this project then is to work towards fortifying our regional food supply and distribution systems in an equitable and inclusive way that ensures the ability of adequate, affordable, socially and culturally appropriate products, a variety of rapidly changing climate, environmental and public health conditions. So as I said, we're looking to shore up our supply chains and our distribution system and our production infrastructure for both non-emergency times, but then so that they're prepared for times of emergency or climate disruption or supply chain disruptions. And just so you know, this work, this regional work is in total alignment with what's in our new state Vermont Ag and Food Systems Strategic Plan that we released to you all back last February. We made sure that we were part of the whole region and that the region also, and we're making sure that the regional work is reflected in how what we're doing here in Vermont. Okay. So what we're doing right now is working on some very relevant and timely foundational research and analysis that will be provided to each state and that can be then rolled up into the six state region. And then that research we think, so by this time next year, you will have some additional materials to work with to be able to think about strategic, additional strategic investments in the private nonprofit sector and also to guide philanthropic investments, but really looking at those investment decisions about where we need additional infrastructure, where we need additional systems in place to really capitalize on this regional food system opportunity. It will not be a formal plan, though. That's important. Like what you know of as the Farm to Plate Plan, it will not look like that. This is really the foundational research that will help us to understand what's actually possible to produce in the region. What types of food products? What different food categories? And then within each state, within the region as a whole, and how will that food get distributed in terms of different market channels? So that's a big part of what we're focused on right now, is this foundational research. And we're also strengthening our relationships with state ag commissioners across the six states and with funders across the six states and all the nonprofit organizations and trade associations that are engaged in this work. So we built a 14-member research team across the five different research areas across the six states. And again, this research is to inform then the strategy development and investment and policy recommendations that would support increasing food consumption to 30% by 2030. And this is a very, as you'll see in a minute, a very interesting and multi-layered research project. I have to say I have never coordinated something quite as complex as what I'm doing right now. So there are three main teams of researchers, and I won't spend any real time on this, you can read it in the slides. But to know that there's three multi-researchers in a team for the dietary needs, called Dietary Needs Team. And I'll explain a little bit more about what they're working on. Then we have a market demand team of a number of researchers. Again, these are people from across the region that have different domain expertise. And then we have a production team also, and they are looking at what we can actually produce within each of the six states. And then we have some additional analysis that's coming that is happening. So looking just like we have in Vermont every year, we tell you how many jobs and how many businesses exist in the food system. We've just done that for the other five states. So we now understand what the total amount is for the whole region. We're also looking at food flows. I think you may recall I showed you some slides last year of the United States that had a lot of like spaghetti lines all over the place that showed the way in which food flows just from a distribution perspective across the country. And we just got some updated numbers data that will allow us to look at a 10 year time span. And what we want to understand in that is how much of the food that is being produced in New England is traded within New England amongst ourselves. And then how much is exported and how much additional food is imported into the region. So we have a better sense of what are we really looking at in terms of import substitution, right? Because ultimately to get to 30%, there's two ways to do it. We get to 30% by producing more and keeping more of what we produce in the region. And then of what we already produce, keeping more of that within the region, right? So that we're doing import substitution, meaning we're importing less of what we eat and exporting less of what we eat to the rest of the country, right? We keep it within the region as much as possible. Well, and it would be good, Alan, when you're doing that is, you know, there's all kinds of talk about vehicles polluting the atmosphere. And when you get those numbers, if you broke that down into truck loads, because it all gets trucked in here or trucked out of here, how much it's cutting that travel down and how much it's helping with our overall climate change stuff, that would be another bonus. Yes. Yeah, we're very interested in that too, because what we don't want to have happen, we know that some agricultural practices contribute a lot to greenhouse gas emissions. And so what we don't want is we increase production and then cause more damage from a climate change perspective, right? We want to have to be using the best available approaches and practices to the production. And that's not just pure agricultural farming production. It's also, for instance, electrifying the truck fleets so that we're using electric trucks, that we're having solar panels on all of these big, huge warehouses, for instance, that are huge electricity sucks because they have so much refrigeration inside, for instance. So we won't have a lot of detail on that, Senator, but I think we will be pointing in that direction that there are major opportunities to do this in the right way that will make sure that we're being really climate smart about it. Yeah, being a truck person, I know from talking with other large companies from the West where they ship a lot of that product in here, none of them really like coming because they have to drive back out of here empty for 400, 500 miles to get a load going back toward home. So it would really make a difference, I think overall, if we eventually get this under control. Yeah, no, I think that's a great point around the opportunities for backhauling and keeping the circulation really within the region much more efficient on so many levels. And then the final piece that, again, I think I'm really excited about this, Nick Rockler is part of Covet and Rockler as in Tom Covet. So his business partner, Nick Rockler, is going to be basically conducting an economic impact analysis for all each of the six states and then as a region so that we can understand overall what are the direct indirect and induced economic benefits of the food system within the six state region. And I think that gives us then a lot of clout to be able to say, hey, we are really a major sector and we're really also important because of needing to secure the food supply for all the reasons that you know. So I'm hoping that a lot of this foundational research will also just give us more tools and more and a stronger even stronger narrative to talk about the need for investment in this sector because of its impact on many levels. So here's basically what we're doing and you don't need to understand that nitty gritty of this. This is a very initial stage diagram but I'll just walk you through it so that you understand what we're ultimately trying to get at which is so if you start up here in the upper left hand corner, this is basically these boxes are representation of all the food that is produced and flows within the rest of the US and the world and a portion of that comes to New England and comes to Vermont. And then next to that you have all of the food that is produced within New England and we import a bunch and we export a bunch and we consume a bunch right so that's all that is basically showing is that there's these three different buckets of what we eat. We import, we export and we consume what we've produced to some degree and ultimately what we're saying is we want to shift the percentages here of what we're we want to reduce what we're importing. We want to on some level reduce some of what we're exporting and we want to increase what we're consuming from within the region. So we want to understand then in this middle here of what we need what do we actually need how much could we actually be producing of all the different types of food that we that we consume and what would be and that includes both raw as well as manufactured or processed right so this is we're going to be using the Vermont local food definition that came into being a year ago as the definition for how we think about what we count as New England food right so it's not going to be just Vermont specific I'll leave from New England but we're going to use the basic structure of the Vermont local food counts for how we think about raw what is raw food food and what is processed food from within the region so what what do we actually need what do we actually eat right and looking at that now and then we're going to be looking then you move into going farther to the right there's lots of ways that that food gets produced this DIY stack of dairy and fruits and vegetables these are like that's do it yourself right those are people who are hunting they're fishing they're gathering they are having their own vegetable gardens they have their own animals if they're slaughtering whatever it is the next in the green here is direct to consumer DTC is direct to consumer so there are people that will get a lot of what they consume from directly from farms through farmers markets csa's and then then there's also food that is produced through manufacturing or processing way in which you know all of these different food stuffs get processed and manufactured and then eventually the of what of some portion of all of that of what gets produced in the region gets distributed and so you drop down into distribution and this is just simply to say and a bunch of that gets distributed it gets then sold through mark through various channels so we're going to be trying to understand through the implant model then what is the overall economic impact of all of that activity and then we're going to be looking at it's sort of the market demand well like okay we produce all this stuff but what do people actually want what what is what are the what are the different the level of market demand for this food and and the population projections over the between now and 2030 well how many of us do we do we need to actually feed and so how we're going to try to understand what we what we actually need is is by updating the new england food vision there are there are two different diets right so you think about if you think about this circles these two circles here is kind of like a plate and each one of these wedges is a different type of food that might get produced within the region so what are we actually consuming the types of food by food category are we actually eating as a region now both at the individual state level which we'll have and then as a region you know how many pounds of potatoes how many pounds of melons how many pounds of of of of very different different types of dairy products how many pounds of meat of different types of meat and then we're going to take a look at well what's a preferred diet as another option right there's you could think about getting to 2030 by saying okay we're just going to go steady with population projections and we're going to eat exactly today as how we're going to eat exactly in 2030 the way that we were eating today right so what does that supply curve look like and then we're saying okay well what if we were more regionally resilient we were more climate friendly and we ate in a more healthy way based on what say USDA my plate actually says we should be eating what would that look like and how how and how much would need to be produced if we were to eat that way by 2030 so we'll have two different diets where we look at what would the production need to be if if we were then able to say that 30% of everything that we produced in the region was actually staying here and was consumed in the region okay follow me with me so then you know and part of this is we have to look at it from the different influences on people their age their income where they live their race ethnicity what markets are available to them across the region the kind of preferred market you know some people really only want to do farmers markets and csa's others only want to go to grocery stores or only want to go to big box retailers so we have to account for all of that and then finally we get to then how does it actually move from the production the supply stage through the distribution channels to the end markets to the end consumer and that's where we want to break it down by like okay well how much of what we produce could flow through institutions like hospitals and colleges and schools how much could flow how much is going to need to flow through grocery stores how much is going to flow through restaurants how many are going to flow through food pantries we've never calculated how much local food is a potential to flow through say our food banks so ultimately getting at this 30 by 30 what would it really what would it really look like what what's possible not the how we would get there but just what is possible does that make sense you with me well I would think we need to know all these things to make it all work that's very for certain right so so as I mentioned we're going to be doing this these two different plates of business as usual and then an aspirational healthier diet so we'll we'll get to the number of acres that are required to produce this food and then also what are we thinking about in terms of the pounds so like the pounds of potatoes the pounds of beef in order by food category in order to get to this 30 right level we are also going to at the very end attempt to back into what would it actually cost for a household to eat in this regionally healthier oriented way because that's sort of like the holy grail right is like okay if if the only people that can eat this way are the wealthy then it's a it's a non-starter right so that because then if we know what it costs to really eat this way because we know that production costs in the new england are higher than other parts of the country then that gives you all more tools to figure out well how do we actually go about supporting producers so that ultimately the food that they're producing can in fact feed everybody regardless of income so that's known and and the slaughter facilities the processing facilities you know do they want their products fresh do they certain percentage frozen yeah so we need some quick freeze operations there's there's a lot and then a distribution system so there's a lot to put together a whole kind of different feeding program exactly because we might say well we think we could actually get to 30% of our meat consumption needs for the region but guess what we need you know i'm just making up a number here we need 10,000 more acres in grass in in grass based foraging and we need i'm going to make up another number you know we need 15 more regional like regionally at scale processing meat processing facilities across the six state region right and so then from your perspective then well how could we support that through policy through investments public dollars those kinds of things well and of course we know that main is known for or has been anyways for their potatoes and and massachusetts they do is it cranberries and things like that yeah so by working with all the states you can kind of zero in on certain production products y'all products that we can all produce and not be competing with each other yeah that's exactly exactly right because we all have different soils you know and things that we can grow and then we have different sized farms in terms of what we can grow we have different levels of of manufacturing capacity and all that stuff so so the the production team this is what they're going to they're currently working on right now is is finalizing their the basically how it is they're going to take all the different data sets and crunch the numbers to get at these food category production numbers that we're looking for so they're taking ag data and also because we've got a large fisheries off the coast of new england all the fisheries data and we're looking at then what is the regional self-reliance production numbers that we we think are possible and then and and so that and then we're also really looking at the carrying capacity of the land base right because we can't overtax our soils and overtax and we also just you know there's only a finite amount of land available so we have to understand like what do we have to work with so we've done that piece of of the analysis we've got some preliminary production just having a general sense of collecting all the current data and we've built a spreadsheet that everything is going into I'm going to skip this next piece so the next piece that they're doing is actually starting to use the data and putting it into this model to sort of get some preliminary milestones and then whoops and then we're going to do some stakeholder input sessions we're going to be in February March having meetings with producers food different types of food producers across six new england states so that we could say okay this is what we think we can do this is what the model is telling us is what the data is telling us like now tell us does that seem realistic or not is that it does that feel in your gut like what you're seeing as possible in terms of the marketplace so we want to validate in essence what the data is telling us and then we'll revise all of that and get to the point hopefully by April May ish where we have a strong sense of what is the production possibility part of the equation and to your point senator star about um this is now this is northeast data and this is old data this is 2001 to 2009 but this is gets to your point of of main is really good at potatoes we are really good at dairy what this shows you this table this table shows you is that we are currently this was between 2001 and 2009 we were producing as a region as the northeast actually this is not just new england this is the whole northeast 13 billion pounds or whatever it is um uh of of dairy for instance we were consuming 17 billion pounds i think this is i'm not sure what the exact metrics are here but uh the point is that you can see just in the order of magnitude we're only producing 76 percent of what we were actually consuming from within the region for dairy but you look down through this you know eggs were doing pretty good shellfish yeah below 50 turkeys chicken fish lamb beef pork way below what we're actually uh uh able to produce here is what we're we're consuming so we're consuming way more of these key products for instance and that they're not coming from the region because we're not producing it so we're gonna part of this research is to update this and to try to get a sense of again what is the production capacity and so that we can increase these these numbers uh on the right hand side here of the regional uh reliance uh how much we can actually consume what we're what we're producing and those numbers are really telling aren't they yeah and this is really old data i'm really curious what what the current data actually shows right and this is this this is not even like vegetables we could play a few hog farms right in uh chitlin county like that so no that's good i'm all for it i'm all for it mr chair this is just again just to show you like the kind of things that we're looking at right this was some research that was done for the northeast grouped around this regional self reliance notion by these are uh vegetables and uh things like sweeteners like honey and and grains and such so again to show you what are we actually producing that we could be consuming uh in the region some stuff you know like uh you know melons are challenging in the northern parts because it needs a longer growing season for instance but uh and wheat is challenging for lots of reasons we know but we're still like onions are in the 20 to 50 percent range of potatoes fresh potatoes are still in the 20s to 50 percent range so there's a lot of things in these different columns that we want to shift so that we're we're consuming more of them and we're producing more of them and so ultimately where we're getting to this is just a a represent a visual of of a the model that we're building which will allow us to actually do scenario planning to say okay if we want to get to where dairy is 80 percent meaning 80 percent of our consumption needs and vegetables are getting our you know we're producing 60 percent of our vegetable needs and and such um what does that actually then look like in terms of acres pounds those kinds of things so so we can actually then eventually be able to play around with this to to think about the tradeoffs right because let's just say uh well we know new englanders eat more chicken than turkeys but we are not producing a lot of turkeys as much as we could our could could more turkey production offset some of chicken consumption because we can do more turkeys you know because we might have some limits on chicken so like it's it's being able to play around with those different kinds of scenarios to see what would it take in terms of acres to produce it and how many pounds per year would we need to so this is the kind of like highest level spreadsheet that we're gonna that I think will be most useful to you is to be able to see this table filled in and give you a sense of what's possible so that's what's coming well another thing allen that that it would be good to chat about with the professional people um like with families being smaller today than they were 20 years ago maybe we only need 14 15 pound turkeys instead of 25 and 30 pound turkeys that yeah most most of us can't use up in a week if we cook one um yeah things like things like that are worth knowing about uh down the road as we move forward chris did you have a question yeah I'm curious uh this is very very interesting and I feel like things we've been talking around for many years since I've been on senate ag so it's great to see um I kind of remember talking about it in just broad strokes and and the look on your face of you have no idea how complicated it is well now I have a better idea of how complicated it is so thank you and and uh exciting to to to hear that there's a regional group of smart folks trying to get their arms around it uh I'm curious if you factored in or if there's so many variables but there's a federal angle here um when we think about costs and and the chair mentioned trucking is anybody wondering I mean that there will come a time when we will no longer tolerate tomatoes coming from California at least without some price point impact because shipping costs are kind of ignored in in prices I mean crazy speaking and people are people are really looking at that you know it's gotten up to two dollars and a half a mile yeah the cost of moving a product and you know that's expensive so when we think about this 10 years in the future does is there any way of because because I would guess that means the affordability of the local food is much different than than it is right now and I'm just curious if that if there's a way to build that in or if anybody's been thinking about that kind of aspect yeah it's a great question and and in many ways it's it's kind of the holy grail question when it comes to federal subsidy policy right and all the money that our taxpayer dollars that go to to subsidize uh the so-called cheap food uh in the this country that is it's cheap because it's been heavily subsidized by too large agribusiness right and so ultimately where I think this ends up playing out from a policy perspective is putting pressure on the federal government to to reconsider its national subsidy policy to more of a regionalized food subsidy policy and what that would then do is increase for instance you know we get a poultry amount in Vermont for specialty crop block grants which is basically all the types of specialty crops are you know all the different types of vegetables and grains and fruits and stuff right we get a couple hundred thousand dollars a year it's ridiculous how many millions and billions are going to subsidize wheat and corn and soy that go into you know a myriad of processed products that we shouldn't be eating from a health perspective right so we're we're subsidizing with our tax dollars unhealthy food that we're then consuming and then paying for through our healthcare system right I mean it's just it's insanity so what I really see is the opportunity here is to is if we can calculate what would it take for the six new england states and then you could think about adding in new york and pennsylvania new jersey sort of take it from a more regional northeast perspective and we think about well how do we actually make the this food affordable and make trucking from farther away even more unaffordable that and then the southeast does bad and the north and the southwest does it and the northwest does it and that's not to say we're creating little islands within the united states because we'll never be able to produce a hundred percent of what we eat trade will always be there but if each region of the country can be somewhat more regionally self-reliant there's greenhouse gas benefits there's security in terms of supply chains diversification of supply chains all of that become more possible so then how does federal policy support that I think is ultimately where we need to head right and and I think the the key here is I think that right now anyways we'll see what happens in 2022 and 2024 but the bind administration has been signaling this the recent announcement that came out for instance about wanting to increase competition in meat processing nationally and putting more grant dollars into regional meat processing facilities because of the monopoly level production I think is a is a is a signal that there's an opening because of the pandemic to really explore more of a regionalized food system because while on one hand our national food system you could argue has become so efficient so hyper efficient but it's also really brittle any disruption is is has a cascading effect and makes us very vulnerable when some part of the system doesn't work whether it's the issues going on in the ports of Los Angeles with all these big cargo ships just sitting out there waiting to unload from food from who know or from you know products from who knows where to having you know four companies controlling 60 to 70 percent of our meat supply well a couple of them is you know our own by a Chinese and and and Brazilian owned companies so there's a lot that is messed up that we need to fix and it's not going to be something we can do overnight it's you know this is a generational effort that is required but how long we've been at it what five six ten years been quite bell yes and we've made a lot of progress and I think that people are starting to wake up I mean the pandemic has really helped to wake people up about what is at risk and you know when the fires in California and the droughts that are anticipated more and more in the Midwest and California and Mexico it makes us more vulnerable here in the northeast and I think people are waking up to that so how how can we take advantage of this opportunity and invest in the infrastructure and the distribution networks that we need to to take care of more of our own food needs within the region that's ultimately what we have to get to yeah so just very briefly these are the this is the types of market demand questions that we're going to be answering through this research this research and really trying to understand how do we then align our production our our our desired production increases with all of the different ways that consumers ultimately acquire food whether that's you know at a food pantry or at a grocery store at a restaurant and really trying to understand these different market channels and where could we be increasing the amount of local or regional food through these channels you know what would be retailers the grocery retailers slice of the of the pie for instance in terms of increasing their sourcing of regionally produced food so that's where we're we're headed on the market demand side and you know this is just another another way to think about it is you've got all these different direct consumer channels but then the big kahuna is how do we get into the grocery stores we know that uh close to 70% of all the food that anyone uh eats is coming through the grocery channel and that's them the big ones too i mean the old women pops or the other ones that'll buy local stuff right exactly so we got to figure out how to get in there and that then of course whenever you're dealing with a system and a whole supply chain you've got to be able to think about the distributors and how it's how it's moving to then get to these different types of market outlets to then reach the end consumer so that's where we're that's where we're headed and just as a just in case you're interested this is this is for the whole country we're trying to get regional data but i thought this was actually quite interesting so fah is food at home so fifth so we know that in vermont that these numbers are very different right because i mean other than maybe chitin county uh a lot of people just they make all their their food and eat most of what they eat at home so this is food purchased from different market channels for at home consumption across the country 50 percent of all food is prepared at home and they're getting it from grocery stores from warehouse clubs from mail order those kinds of things 43 percent is food away from home so restaurants hospitals schools right limited uh uh various um donated food outlets hotels right this is where the food these are the channels that it moves through in order for either you're consuming it at home or you're consuming it away from home but but this is the this is the whole us yeah those numbers are kind of interesting right i mean it's almost 50 50 yeah which you think back 10 15 20 years you know that was not the case i didn't realize chris and like brian out of ruttland eat out all the time i feel you date at home like us hunkies up north well the legislature would would uh contribute to that in a normal year yeah that's true that's right up to a lot of money yeah and i would think a lot of lunchgoers you know in a more normal environment or grabbing something grab a sandwich and real real so as part of our market demand work we're trying to also again in each of these different types of of uh locations where food is acquired is really understand some of the unique attributes you know one of the things that we have understood become more um we understand that greater detail the challenges that small producers in particular have in getting onto the store shelves in grocery stores there are all sorts of barriers to that and so ultimately if grocery stores is the largest market channel we have also got to figure out how to penetrate uh those markets with regional and local product uh at a at a systems level and that impacts and a lot of that is also connected to distribution systems so so this is just simply to say there's a lot of complexity in each one of these market channels that we're going to be trying to suss out and as a way of understanding then what is the contribution that colleges can make towards the 30 by 30 goal what's the contribution that grocery stores can make to the 30 by 30 goal um and then what we don't yet have funding for that is sort of on our wish list is we want to get the other five New England states to do the local food counts that we do here in Vermont so we're talking with the commissioners um in the other five states to see if they can pony up a little bit of money and we can get the baseline of the percentage of local local food in Maine what's the percentage of local food in massachusetts so that we would have as baseline that we could then do those same counts in 2025 and 2030 so we can see whether we're making any progress just like we've done here in Vermont so we'd like to have that done across the six states so we're talking with them about coughing up the money on that um and then we would really like to be able to do some kind of uh infrastructure inventory uh by market channel type um and particularly around key processing like cold storage meat processing distribution infrastructure warehouses to just get a sense of like how much do we have in the region and where is it located so we can see then okay if we're going to increase production then we're going to need x number more meat processing plants and y number more warehouses and central terminals where food comes in and out of for instance and then ultimately we need to understand what's it all going to cost and then we'll be the idea is to produce the report of all of this um for sometime in September so it'll be ready for you all to review next fall as you think about heading into next year's session um and I think that'll there'll be a synopsis and then there'll be all the details so if you want to get into the weeds you you can go down way down the rabbit hole well that's where we're at well it sounds like your work is going quite well are you are you uh is like the agency a bag helping with this to get these other states involved a little bit um we we will be uh we have been talking with um Abby and the anson about hosting a meeting of the other five ag commissioners to get this up an update just like I've given to you so that they you know many of them they all know that something's in the works but you guys actually know more than than they do at this point because we haven't met with them yet and uh so the intention is to be bringing them along and then you know talk with anson and Amanda Beal who's the commissioner over main is fantastic as well she's very connected to this work um think about like what could their role be then in on the implementation end of things so once this comes out what does this mean for their departments of agriculture what do they do with this how do they think about their available grant making dollars or drawing down federal resources or or what that's really the next piece was once we have this foundational research and we say okay red island this is what we need you to do new yam sure this is what we need you to do like okay so now how are you going to do that how do we marshal resources the people the infrastructure to make that happen uh questions from the committee no good um anything alan that uh we should know about or be working on to help your cause out or things sounds like things are going well but while i ask yeah no i mean i think i think things are going well um you know i would be very happy when the actual research piece is done it is really complicated um it there's days when my brain really hurts but um but once we get this done then i think you know then it's really going to be these conversations about how do we make more strategic investments so i would say on this front it's sort of just keep moving forward on making the best use of arpa dollars for infrastructure because that can't hurt like there's no reason to wait for this research to come out right we know we're going to need more infrastructure we know we need more distribution systems strengthening our local and regional distribution we know we need more warehouse and cold storage space so let's just can they put whatever arpa dollars towards that that we can you know there's this new company over in in um that the abbey group is is launching to actually do more milk processing to specifically supply schools with vermont milk you know projects like that let's get behind those because we know we're going to need them and they're going to benefit um what we're trying to do as a region what what are they doing uh at the abbey they're they're they're launching another another company specifically to develop uh put in place the equipment to be able to supply schools with the milk from vermont all be done yeah that's good they put in a i we had a pre application from them from working lands um so we're i was i was particularly excited to hear about that one they're doing some other exciting stuff bobby it might be worth bringing them in but they're also looking to build a packing facility to do more of these lunches with local food as schools and stuff when we give them away so they're they're doing a lot to try to grow this up here they see the shifting market and they're trying to invest there now yeah and where where is that happening core in sheldon enosburg area sheldon yeah yeah maybe we can come up with 43 grand to to help them out yeah boy that's gonna be a left um anything else uh committee members ellen anything else well so we are we um we're i'm hoping that i think february 17th we're gonna come in and talk about farm to plate um and we'll have a 10-year retrospective for you that takes a look at everything that's been accomplished over the last 10 years um in some ways we should have done the retrospective and then the new 10-year plan but we did it the other way so um but you'll i think you'll get to see the fruits of of of all of our labor and all of the funding support that you've provided and moral support over the years and policy changes you've made um and how far we've come in 10 years uh and we'll give you a brief update on where things are at with farm to plate going forward and to the new 10 years and um and then at some point uh to the extent to which you're uh would be of interest we are moving forward on the development of a food security plan for the state this was one of the priority strategies in the new in the new plan and it specifically about and it really complements this new england work because it's really about how does vermont improve non-emergency time with more local food getting to vermoners and then during emergency times how are we making sure that we're sourcing as much local food as possible so what would that actually look like so building on what we've learned over the last two years of the pandemic with vermont everyone eats you know for instance and other emergency management planning this is the perfect time what are the lessons we learned about what worked well and what didn't work as well as it could have with sourcing in local to the distribution of food during emergencies well i think that that meeting we're gonna have a joint meeting i think with the house members on the 17th yes yeah yeah so well i'll have to come yeah if there isn't any other questions thank you very much alan it's always a pleasure to have you in thanks for the opportunity and we'll we'll stay in touch um and committee uh i guess we're pretty well done for the morning uh we'll see you anything anybody wants to bring up uh before we adjourn for the morning if not um thanks