 Hello everyone, my name is Tans Herman and I'm Art Carmichael we're here on behalf of the grassland coalition and Trying to discuss some topics important to many ranchers throughout the state Regarding the topic of drought Things are dry if we don't see very normal conditions returning or even above normal as far as precipitation is concerned very soon Most folks are going to be facing forward shortages moving into this growing season And we want to walk through some questions that many of you are probably asking yourselves Mark my first question to you and actually kind of even starts with a statement. I'd like you to talk to the ranchers out there That are out of grass. We're already in spring. Things are starting to green up at least some of the early cool season grasses And they recognize that where forage is going to be short this year They may have already taken some action, but but let's presume they haven't they're sitting on their cow herd What first steps? What advice do you have for for that type of person? first steps is you know find That core that you need to keep or you want to keep or or maybe it's you know, if you want to get rid of everything it'd be Establish that that The levels there, you know what what what you're willing to do and what you're willing not to do because Feeding your way through you can get very very expensive and we don't know when it's going to end or when You know so it'd be a Trying to get a plan together so it's not just on emotion So it's it's set out before you that way you can start taking action without having so much emotion into it You know and and whether that's I don't say that it's You know if you just totally need to need to sell out Then then you need to make a plan for that and a marketing plan for that And if it's that you want to keep that herd, but you need to forage So we need to find an alternative forage source or somewhere else to send them if we can you know, but we need to make that plan Right now, you know, it will rain here some day Yeah, but this season it will rain somewhere and hopefully not too far away Right, it's not here. So that may be an option. That's a good point. Yeah Bart, I hope you tell the story of how and and roughly when this ranch Recognize that you needed to do something to address drought because it's a normal part of our ecosystem, right? It happens on a somewhat regular basis. Yeah, I wouldn't just don't know when I wouldn't even in business very long when we realized that you know, because I mean it's we have a your stocking rate that When I started, you know What your neighbors tell you what, you know, what's your area tells you what grandpa always run and But it didn't take very long at all to realize that you needed to have a drought plan of some sorts and a lot of times it It used to come down to and you hear this a lot. Well, I can grace my hay ground, you know, that was that was kind of the drought plan So and then further we got into it into the managed grazing actually made it more of a Definite because There was we were clipping and weighing forage and we knew what we were using we knew what we were harvesting, you know And and then them tell-tale signs come about and But drought is actually what really threw us into the management grazing too as well because we could allocate so many days of grass You know for the cow herd and then it had the all the rest of time to come off And and then when it did get a rain it would respond from you know, because it had urine and feces on it whatnot. So it it's In one way it management intensive grazing Told us we really needed to drought plan But drought is actually what threw us into the management intensive grazing So that we could manage and manage for it, you know, so Yeah, so you knew your numbers, you know, roughly the dry matter intake Of each cow, right? Then when you started measuring your forage production, you knew what was there We're gonna talk a little bit later in a different question about about what you wanted to maybe leave behind All of a sudden you had information to make decisions with oh, definitely Because you had built a plan. Yeah, even if you didn't intend to when the drought started, right? It went in again because it's yeah, it all comes together as a Forage grazing plan and so it's we if you know, it's there Then you know how much you've got to budget and allocate and you know, what you need to leave behind and what not? So yeah, it tells you how many cows you can run so you know so a Lot of us are looking in the mirror and asking ourselves. What's the most important? we may be facing the decision of Maybe further de-stocking or or starting to market some animals that are on the ranch And that wouldn't be limited to most of Western South Dakota's is beef ranches, right cow-calf producers Maybe bring in some yearlings or something like that But I think it would be important Bart if you would share with us the priority in which you rank ranch resources such as The ranch the land itself the livestock that are on it Family the grass that you grow on an annual basis and of course that's variable given the weather but also variable Based on the previous years management possibly even longer ahead of that We know that things like soil health improve over time just like degradation occurs over time. So Yeah, take it away. Yeah, so yeah, we We would prioritize ranch resources the same we do the rest of the things in our life, you know God family God first and then our family second after that and then the land and then the grass cattle and a lot of us get wrapped up with our Our livestock is our identity, you know, and and they're really pretty far down the list because they are replaceable We're a seed stock operation and we've sold half our cows in the last year to Because of drought, you know and preparing for it and dealing with it and so The in yourself, you know, it's got to be up there towards the top too because because of that So, you know, your family is always gonna be there for you And and then your land's gonna be there in this if you take care of that land It'll take care of you and you know build that soil build the next crop to come You said something there Bart, I don't know if you meant to but but you said and yourself. Yeah Taking care of yourselves Folks if you're if you're struggling with the decisions that you're facing right now We want you to know that there'll be some resources some links available So if a lot of the livestock the the animals that cause us to have annual income have already gone to town And we maybe are our planning ahead and saving those dollars so that we can get back in when conditions improve are gone How do you diversify the operational income on this on this ranch? Well, we've had and I've always I've had job before, you know working for the Farm service agency and stuff like that. So you can have off-farm off-range income. My wife has a catering business But a lot of that to protect your profitability is Is when you need to to go ahead and pull the trigger to get rid of them cows Because it could end up costing you way more to keep them and you lose all your profitability And you end up with nothing where if you if you do sell your cows, you know If that I mean it becomes an option that not only is that money sitting there But you're also saving money on the other end of not Trying to replace forage, you know that that grows for free so So there's there's just little things like that and You know and and one thing about it. I look at drought As a way to make my ranch better and not many people look at it that way, but it I learned to improve my management skills I've learned to improve my herd through it, you know to get rid of the bottom end and things like that so so there's There's those things that help and increase your profitability once it's In place that makes things better, you know It's hard to look at drought is making things better. But that's how we try to have the outlook on it Sometimes the hardest times come with the biggest lessons. Yeah, true. Yeah And sometimes the smallest degree of change can make the biggest Oh, yeah, yeah Yeah Or how do you make decisions in an environment where you do not know the future such as the weather or life in general All you can operate from this is the past and I thought about that one quite a bit. It's it's because you make the decisions on what you know now you know, uh We try not to look into the past too much. We try to learn lessons, you know, like what they say of you You know those who forget the past are bound to repeat it so So we try to learn lessons from them past but right now how we make decisions is Is what we know right now And and we do also use, you know, we use like the the drought tool, you know Looking forward a little bit and knowing what them past records were like He's talking about 2019, you know, we run out of that moisture in June of 2020, you know, you can tell it and so now we're going to have the same Lasting probably even more lasting Coming out of this drought if it goes to rain because You know, like last fall you had had some moisture and Some some places got to hold it some haven't Um, like here at home. We do have some subsoil moisture um But going forward now is how we you know, we do An assessment of our grass in march Before the growing season We're doing an assessment of our grass in the end of october early november At the end of our growing season. So that way we're always looking ahead of what we have in front of us And that's that's what we base our a lot of decisions on it's what we have Along with our trigger dates and our drought plan, you know, and so Even if we have the forge there if we don't have substantial or Average moisture up to that point then then it kicks in our our first step, you know of our drought plan. So You mentioned it previously Bart, but It's worth mentioning again Because I I haven't heard it spoken about as much as probably should be amongst the ranching community and and the question is What minimum amount of surface protection or plant litter? Do you strive to maintain after a grazing event? I wouldn't I Struggled to even say aim for because we I mean it's it's more than a goal It's like a rule that we leave at least 800 pounds per acre of residue plant residue behind to protect the soil and In a lot of times we try to leave more than that, you know, depending on the situation or whatever, but as Just as a rule we leave 800 pounds So it's At a minimum. I mean it's And that's where you talk about minimums but then aiming for it. It's like And but it that takes a lot of practice because you need to clip away grass and And assess and know what what is actually there, you know, thank you for mentioning that. I was going to ask you How do you know? How do you measure? Yeah, yeah Hoop which I think get a grazing school. I don't know if we can get into anywhere else I'm proud to get it from you guys at the RCS, but I know a guy here's a here's a plug for the grazing school. If you go to grazing school, you'll get the kit You know and and you'll learn how to do it there, too so it's uh But yeah measure weigh and measure weigh and measure and it And it takes a long time now I've done it a bunch so you Pretty well know when you're looking at it, but but we I still do it, you know and still Throw my hoop out and gather up and weigh weigh what's left At least a few pastures. Oh, yeah. Yeah, maybe your eyes calibrated after that because you have experience. Yeah Yeah, and you'll you'll find that even folks that Do range management consulting on on the full-time basis Still do clip and weigh And it's not just a green weight It's a air dry with a dry weight. Yeah, because that is the basis of stocking rate calculations because we consider the dry weight for the intake on on any class of livestock and their weight So leaving behind no less than 800 pounds and in some cases 12 14 1500 pounds per acre of of dried grass behind to protect the soil by some might be viewed as wasted grass so What benefits does this wasted grass provide in terms of building soil resilience? Oh, man, it's like a pandora's box really But it's first and foremost it gives a place for that raindrop to hit like you said not just hit cap soil or cap the soil Hit bare ground it gives us a spot to slow that water down and getting in contact and it's You know, it's feeding the microbes and everything else that's in the soil starts building up Turning in and then starts turning into organic matter once it starts breaking down. And so it's you know, it's One thing I thought about this was like an envelope, you know It's like and it's kind of a pandora's box deal But you think you're just leaving this much behind but the benefit of it opens up To everything underneath the soil, you know, it's There's a lot more Lives under the soil than they're on top of the soil. So it's we got to feed them too It's it's said and when we do classroom visits and talk about soil and soil health and function One of the things we share with those students is that in one teaspoon of soil There are more living organisms than there are people in the world Granted the world population is growing but hopefully if we're managing for healthy soil We can still say that because there's going to be more and more organisms in that same volume. Oh, yeah Yeah, works as a blanket in the wintertime and umbrella in the summer. Yeah, that's right. Yeah Soil temperature that's huge. That's You know Covering that soil in the summertime You know keeping that sun from hitting it and Killing the microbes. I don't even remember the temperatures now, but and then in the wintertime, you know, I It is that insulating factor If you cover it up with snow, it's even better Because then it's it's almost like a greenhouse underneath there, you know How many times have you seen a snow bank melt away to find vibrant green grass that has come Those those very early season grasses and a lot of times they might be tamed grass is crested Yes, or Kentucky bluegrass, which maybe aren't desired across the landscape, but they certainly hold a place. Oh, yeah So we've talked about having a plan and implementing it when the signs of drought were we're starting to show up What do we expect? Of the land managed in this way a plan implemented before We were in crisis mode as far as response time when favorable, you know, it rains But now it's gonna be it's gonna be faster, you know the typical long term or a little season longer using or something like that it's and You know like the immediate response we have seen that I actually because in the drought 2012 didn't rain and we managed through but uh You're the manure and urine load is concentrated, you know And urine is instantly responsive to moisture And it's immediately available to the roots of the zone but uh The land that's managed this way It has the root reserves still down there, you know Because it's given time to rest and recover totally without being trying to grow back and get nipped off again dying off and There is one probably one benefit to look forward to is on some of these places looking around that That are really hurting is some of that grass went dormant And so thankfully it wasn't crazed again, you know you know It didn't didn't try to grow back, you know, so There's there's you know native prairie is resilient And and when taken care of it will respond a lot faster, you know, so it's But I know like our grass has It has deep roots and I know we have different root zones from the diversity out there You know the different plant species that complement each other And so it's going to respond a lot faster Yeah, there's We haven't mentioned it here yet, but uh now is as good a time as any, you know We recognize that there's there's five main principles of soil health First and foremost, just keep the soil covered. Bart's talked about that maintaining that residue cover Number two is in the case of grazing lands to optimize disturbance because grazing is a disturbance to the landscape, right? Bart talked about not re grazing because it would just be like a Those of you into sports if you'd like to watch boxing or mixed martial arts It would it would being re grazed to a plant would be like that that boxer um Having having one match and then turning around two hours later and fighting another one there isn't adequate time to recover They're probably going to get smoked unless they're a super athlete We have some super plants here in the northern great plains, but they aren't capable of taking Grazing operation after grazing operation in the same growing season So that rest and recovery is important. Bart mentioned diversity That's huge We've got four main plant types throughout the world cool season grasses and cool season broadleaves warm season grasses and warm season broadleaves And all that those terms mean is is that we've got leafy plants like like grasses that have long Leaves versus broadleaves such as alfalfa or sunflowers or things like that We've got the legumes the in all native In our context here, but but the principles apply to tame grasses as well or tame pastures as well We take for granted on grazing land here in South Dakota is that livestock are incorporated They're an important tool when managed correctly And and Bart spoke about how they take their place in priority orders as far as resources on the manches They're viewed as a tool even though they're what we recognize cash for when we go to market So we've mentioned some important dates here on on Bart and Shannon's place and I'm curious part if you can explain how important planning the annual grazing rotation really is here and what that means for you as far as results well How important it's it's the commercial sense priceless. I mean, it's you know, it's It's what we have and So like planning our whole you know, we're we're planning a year-round grazing system and not everybody's going to do that you know, but but you need to know what you have and you know, it kind of come to conclusion for me here a while back that You know, it's thinking about it and should we sell should we not well We set them dates That helps take the emotion out. You know, it's It becomes a business strategy then and we're protecting that resource And like we talked about earlier the the grass comes above the cattle Actually the land comes above the grass. So I mean it's what we got to do to protect them resources And and that comes all the way down to protect our family because gotta get stressed and emotional at a point so Planning that out a year ahead. We have We have the strategy ahead of us and we can see that as a goal you know in what we have And You know, maybe we're not going to make it to the whole year But we're going to plan that for each out and then and then the the weather You know, a lot of times when I say the weather dictates that I'm talking about Covering up icing up, you know and not being able to graze. Yeah the physical activity Yeah, right. It's not possible four feet. Yeah, so And now now in this situation like this year now, you know in the last month We've been we're losing Some ground cover and grass breaking off to wind, you know, so but So we need to pay attention to that and We don't want to uh Excuse me put them decisions off until it's too late and You know, right now the way up market is pretty good and like oh way up market and but You know a lot of times in these situations, it's not so if we don't make that decision early on and go ahead with it you know What if what if we got in the middle of summer and we had to dispose of our herd, you know, that's That's pretty heartening disheartening and so, you know, if we if we make them decisions early And pull the trigger on them. I've I've never heard talked to anybody that has regretted it I know one guy that fully liquidated a little over a year ago, you know, and He is so thankfully dead, you know, because Their conditions just keep getting drier and drier And and everybody's situation is going to be different, you know, but You know You planning it out, you know, I Just recently I spent several hours reconciling my checkbook register because I'd gotten lazy and I hadn't done it There for a while My family's expenses went without being checked Thankfully, we didn't get into a crisis situation because we were Pretty modest about our spending during that time frame where it wasn't being reconciled But you talking about planning out your annual grazing is really no different than that That's a great example because yeah, that's like what I mentioned the savings account, you know, it's If if we can build it build it up, you know and protect it, you know, that's that's a great analogy So your forecast on the end of March Probably does it always presume normal conditions or are you kind of watching the trend the trend? Uh We're looking at the trend not presuming normal. So then we're going to base that off Uh We'd stock to to our Available forage at this point and then what we have today what we have today. Okay. Yeah, and then uh, and then we use, uh The drought tool And then and then predict below average Because it is below average. You know, we can't expect it to really just all of a sudden turn around It could happen and we're thankful for it But but we're going to presumably stay in the same thing. So then and then I base Uh, I kind of compare them to And if if I'm one way or the other it's best to go to the safe side, you know um this spring would come down to uh Well last fall we were looking at 33% reduction So then the cows actually left for 110 days to corn stocks. Well, that's almost 30% of the year So that was kind of our budget at that time Come to march now. Um We're looking at a 50% De-stock which compared to the drought tool said 46. So We're pretty comparable in there, you know, so and for this location. It wasn't just yeah, that was Yeah, that was that was for this location And so we but we'd already already de-stocked last fall and then then since cows away Off the number we had then we needed another 30% that's where the 110 days come from and so then and now We have very few The spring that we had to sell because we're ahead of it, you know coming into it very good very good And you're speaking Alternatives there You could have sold 30% of the cowherd, but instead they left the whole cowherd left for 30% of the year. Yeah, right. So Responding to conditions early Leaves you alternatives. Yeah, it was definitely, you know, want to be back in the corner and then there's only one way out, you know, so We'll talk more at length about if you find yourself in the corner And and now you have to make hard decisions and emotional decisions and costly decisions and and Maybe some ways that you can weigh those factors and and make a wise business decision At least as wise as you can given the circumstances This is pretty serious content and and You know, we're talking business and and lasting decisions or impacts on on family operations across the state And certainly some folks are going to use this opportunity or this I'm seeing it from the positive light when I say the word opportunity But some folks will use this period of drought to enhance their ability to to better withstand the next one By installing additional livestock watering facilities on their ranches Just curious what role the water developments play here They're big as last fall, you know, I was telling this is this Shortage of grass is actually NRCS is fault Yeah, because because now I have water if no and and it's it's good, but it's It's really not their fault, but it's a great tool all the water, you know We have water tanks, but the truth is if it wasn't for that water development We wouldn't have had a cow here last summer because the dams were all dry And so but through equip and different different things Programs, you know, we have water now water tanks in every pasture and so But that that also just increases the level Of potential that we need to be paying attention to our drought management because Now cattle can be there where in the past They wouldn't have been because of lack of water so But now, you know, we're in the middle of Uh Expanding our water development so we can get better utilization to the backs Of pastures and stuff like that and in increasing and so That that water development having that water available To the livestock is Unmeasurable, you know and and I say that as a joke to NRCS is fault, but it's uh But it is a great tool and you know, that's where When I come to the realization of that We wouldn't add any cattle here if it wasn't for that developed water It was pretty big So with piped water and tanks in every pasture does the rotation Last year is it going to look the same this year? No, our rotation is offset. I mean And you know, I hear different things of starting where you left or going backwards or something like that and and I never really Hold to that because I just don't I don't want to ever give anything a shorter rest period so So our we we plan out for 14 months To graze and sometimes that speeds up sometimes it slows down depends on what happens but But as long as that i'm off then the next year coming around Hopefully that it had 14 months off But maybe it maybe it only had 11 or something but it but it's not being grazed less than that You know or getting hammered again when it's just trying to regrow So it's and then that way our system is always off from the year before And so it's a little bit I would say slow to change but very slow to return back to that spot. So I had figured up here one time on a pasture here the last time it was We were there in may and everybody was here in the last time when it was grazed in may Let alone early may or late may it was like nine years So so we just keep our rotation offset a little bit. So it's never the hitting the same spot at the same time of year The importance of that of course goes back to remember we have cool and warm season both grasses and broadleaves And every plant has its growth window basically or it's growing season and to not Compound the effects of always being in the same pasture on the same date What that does over time is actually cause a shift in plant community, right? Right probably get replaced with Less desirable less productive plants if we continue to do the same thing and less diversity What I really noticed because if we hit it different time of year we graze something different You know, but but in our management, we try to graze every everything So so we get our stock density up so that they'll graze everything and then but something else has an advantage At any time of the year different time of the year Yeah, the way you manage your livestock while in pasture Kind of takes away some of their natural selectivity. Yep. Yeah as far as what plants they eat because of the Almost a competitive eating. Oh, yeah, if we were all turned into the you know Salad bar at the same time, you know We'd take whatever we could get in front of if I just go up there by myself. I'm going to take pudding You know and maybe no lettuce, but if if there's a whole bunch of us and we know that's all we're going to get We'll probably take some lettuce, you know, yeah, so or at least something that'll last a while Yeah, yeah, we're something not it's not your favorite. Anyway, right? They look a lot different because we're a lot like people. Oh, yeah, they are Yeah, yeah, I get in trouble about that all the time comparing people to the cow We better leave it there We touched a little bit on this earlier, but but it's worthy of being mentioned again Because we recognize the emotional and financial toll That that drought can put Operations in it's not just the day-to-day manager who's making most of the decisions, but it's their family members Um, it's their business partners if if the business is structured that way. It's it's any number of things. So In times of stress, how valuable are your personal and business relationships in a time like this? No, man Totally they're really valuable and I'm I'm guilty of it too. I mean, it's kind of a confession video, but Oh keeping communications open. I mean, it's really Really important because you know, and whether you think you're alone or not You're not you have a business partner and your spouse or you know Or or a dad or son or something. So You need to keep them Lines communication open and like, you know, I just visit with my landlord a landlord the other morning, you know about the conditions and And how many cows he expects me to run and whatnot, you know and I mean And knowing that Things are tough and knowing he's looking for a check and but just keeping them communications open and visiting with each other And and the more you do that in good times is important too because Then you learn to communicate with each other and how each other communicates, you know, and Because if you only go in times of trouble then it's really hard to communicate. So um, and like I said, I'm terrible about it. So I'm kind of learning how to do that better And keep communications open with even my wife and And and children, you know, and so it's What's going on? What's happening? Why it's happening? and so So stay tuned to this website for additional resources If if you're in a situation where you don't feel like you can or should talk to those very close people Whether they're personal or business I mean, you just need to unload some things The resources will be here on sddroughtplan.org. Yeah, call one of us or us So we've talked and danced around the the content or pieces of Grazing and drought plan already, but it kind of to sum it up What's the lasting value of having a grazing management plan that incorporates drought contingency in it Lasting is the word. I mean it's generational. It's You know without one You're kind of doing what I mentioned earlier about Managing for what you know now, you know, and but having that plan out ahead of you so that you can manage and In all planning, you know, even family planning or whatever That grazing plan You know, they say plan grazing is destined to fail, but a grazing plan is the road to success you know and so In thinking of the plan grazing is because then it's a recipe and you're in this spot at this time and out at this spot well In with a grazing plan you need to learn to be adaptable to you know and something something comes through if Fire comes through that spot. You can't just leave your cow there because that's why the plan is You know, so a guy's got to learn to roll with it, but but you know The general MacArthur Talked about the plan, you know world war two. I believe I can't remember but you know Not planning It's a plan to fail. I really believe that you know, and you've got to have that set before you and it's Lasting value The way you said that is I'm thinking it's generational. It's you know, and you build that soil And that grass and it's there to take care of you and You know if If you don't take care of that, you don't have anything and if you don't have a plan you're not taking care of it, you know And and ultimately if we're As hard as it can be especially when when forage production is low Leaving behind enough to protect the soil and actually infiltrate more water more rapidly Than then just taking it For what it's worth. You know just trying to survive Um, and I know that's a situation that we all find ourselves in Gosh, maybe we need to dig a little deeper and and that's maybe you've made that decision already and It's done. Well moving forward We're encouraging you to to put together a plan If if you're already here in 22, we record this on the 7th of april You might not watch it until may or june and conditions. Hopefully you're good But they might be worse and so what better time to to plan Ahead The drought is going to return. It might not be this bad. It might be worse But having both business affairs grazing plans And relationships in a healthy state when that time comes Bart talked about communicating There's other stakeholders in your operation Even if you're a sole proprietor, you know, if you're married, you have a business partner. Hopefully Yeah Um, yeah, what do they say, uh, best time to plan a tree was 20 years ago Next best time is today and that's the way the grazing plan is too And and when I'm thinking of a grazing plan it includes the drought plan, you know, it's There are one and there one. They should be one. Yeah, it's a forage plan, you know, so Very well Bart mentioned the the drought tool and that is a resource that South Dakota nrcs has incorporated on its website Easy enough to find just do do a search for sd nrcs and uh under pasture and range resources you can find the drought tool It does require internet access to to actively run because it pulls precipitation records from your county and and Listing of stations that are available in each county It does also have the ability for those of you that track your own precipitation To enter your own data, which would overwrite that nearest station that you've selected Then you can write some drought planning on there. Yep. Yep. It generates a report where you can just type it right out These are the things that we're going to do Either at this date or or in this order at the very least And and that's a starting point Bart is your drought plan the same now as when you first put together No, I was just going to say that too. It's yeah, don't don't think you have to have it Correct the first time, you know, but but just starting to implement that and and put them thoughts into word Starts making the plan together Bart talked about the marketing plan You might find yourself making decisions at a time when normally Less valuable animals are worth more than they typically should be and that might change For that implementation strategy. It might change the way you market different classes of livestock And yeah, in what classes, you know Well, you know, like when a guy's figuring what what to de-stock with Is figuring out what is your most profitable animal, you know first and foremost A lot of times we think it's our cows. Some are what we want to hang on to but Sometimes they're not the most profitable or highest gross margin So that's where we base a lot of them decisions to you know, it's to Is to run different analysis on different animals To see which ones are making us the most money and which ones are paying the most for their feed in times like this Bart you mentioned trigger dates and and your drought plan and I Wanted you to explain a little deeper for folks that maybe don't have a drought plan Are simply recognizing Conditions today and going about life day by day It sounds like there's more to it here and I'd like to understand a little more Well, I don't know if there's more to it. We've kind of simplified it After several years, but it was we used to do percentages of moisture, you know different things like that which would be our triggers and now Or we have three trigger dates a year, which is october 15th march 25th and april 28th. It's Or may 28. Sorry. It's memorial day. We use as our trigger date and So whatever What we've been using the last several years and it seems to work well is is If we are below normal Say in the fall of october 15th moisture level we we reached we We stock to the resource we have available in front of us prorated out for the next six months So then when we get to march 25th That's that's really a big one for us. It's because It depends on the winter moisture stuff like that a little bit of spring moisture Just getting started and then That is a major Point for us the march 25th because we go up We will totally reduce or stock to the only the forage that is standing In front of us for the next 12 months And so and really the memorial day weekend one. It's usually A rainy weekend for us. That's kind of our typical. So, you know, it's kind of one of the mold adages Where it if it rains memorial day, you know, you'll have grass. Well, that's not always true But it's it kind of gives us a little bit of an inkling We don't really adjust too much by that time because hopefully we've already implemented them steps To It's already taken place by that time, you know, yeah, you were looking last fall. Yeah I head to what you're going over winter. Yeah And in early spring and early yeah And then we and then we plan out for the whole next year on available forage we have You said something that stuck to me there Forge standing Yeah Sometimes grass is laying on the ground some well sometimes. Yeah, and particularly in the way that you graze in a management intensive deal Where there's a lot of of the stock density, right putting vegetation in contact with the ground Then we don't want to steal that away from the land. So that's what that that ground that Grass that is down and flat against the soil it belongs to the soil. So we don't want to take that off and you know, we have um In a situation like this we'll probably graze it a little deeper Our goal is usually always Our goal used to be 800 pounds an acre left behind um, there was ground that wouldn't grow 800 pounds an acre. So we were We were managing around that and pretty lightly grazing it now pretty much Everywhere we can always leave 800 pounds behind um But our goal is a lot of times the Thousand pounds sometimes even 1200 pounds left behind because Then we can start building soil and so we get in a situation Like this drought And long as we're leaving that 800 pounds We know we're protecting the soil and leaving cover on it and and we're not building soil, but we're protecting soil So and protecting that health and so That's where we do that assessment And we don't want to count any old litter or nothing. It's got to be standing That way we get an assessment of what we can graze if nothing changed You know and part of it is you will get rain, you know, um But a lot of times what I found In the soil Once that soil starts working well it starts eating that stuff, you know So a lot of times what we grow We start losing in old, you know, and start and it's cycling. So that's kind of where we base our Our year plan on that march assessment because And if we get more moisture in that we're growing more grass. That's a bonus for us. It's like a savings account for us, you know So it's it's not going anywhere. It's there You just said So stole the words right out of my mouth I was thinking about that that plant residue that's in contact with the ground horizontal not not attached As an upright stem anymore as a savings account That's that's what will buffer the impact of a raindrop when it hits the ground And prevent soil erosion, but it also enhances water infiltration. So if we catch that 3 in terrain that comes hard Yeah, you've got a Almost a blanket or sponge there to to soften that impact and get that water into the soil Oh, yeah, totally weird springs open up this spring. So, you know, it's it's pretty neat for the infiltration start working like that Yeah, and and by comparison if if it's exposed soil in between plant crowns You're very subject to runoff You'll catch some. Yeah, the soil is going to absorb some but that 3 in terrain you might lose 2 thirds or even 3 4 so that if it's coming hard and fast of on unprotected soil. Oh, yeah, yeah Bart said something there that that I think is worthy of inserting this little little note and and that's uh for folks that are Facing emotional stress right now. Maybe some kind of depression and things If you're not feeling comfortable visiting with a member of your local church or your family or a friend or something like that You may need to unload some things Just talk it out And and we want you to know that those resources are made available on the very same website that you found this video on And that would could be found either through sdgrass.org which is the grassland coalitions website Or sd droughtplan.org Which is created specifically To hold resources for folks that are dealing with drought conditions. So the trigger dates have happened And whether it's march 25th or memorial weekend You recognize that the conditions are such that you're overstocked and something needs to leave That doesn't mean it has to be sold. It just has to leave as we discussed earlier. So How do you make those decisions Bart? So we have a strategy we use what we call abc herd and And that's even changed in my mind from where it was, but you could do this two different ways there's If you only have mother cows You know haven't broke up into abc herd, you know, and and some people that's as simple as Uh yearland heifers or something, you know Um And in my case, it's it's cows that we've noticed something about, you know So and once once c herd leaves There's a new one made b becomes c, you know, so it's kind of a roll down effect But now there's another way to think of that too. Like if you have different enterprises say in yearlands or yearland heifers or yearland steers or cows or custom grazers abc herds Should be the the herds That have the highest gross margin the most profitable herd That you that would pay for them pay for their feed the easiest or or have the opportunity To come back from the most profitable, you know, so So everybody kind of needs to differentiate how they do that, but Um, I like the abc herds because when we decide Say in october last year We decide see her needs to go and And based on that how big c herd is There's a little bit too on what, you know, uh, what that stocking rate is Well, then Like I said then as soon as c herd was gone be heard become c herd Or be heard gets divided into two groups. Yeah. Yeah, or you could split it. Yeah. And so then now when we come down to This spring of march 25th, you know, um We're into our second step Really, which could mean you could just call it b2 if you wanted to but But I always say c because c is cull and it's easy to cull And so once you put them in there it kind of helps take that emotion away from it because Now she's a cull cow and i'm running her You know, well if things get tougher c herds gonna go and you've already kind of mentally made up your mind Before you just had to just pull the trigger and sell her So That's good. I like that approach because we do we we learn to love caring for those animals, right? Oh, we do. Yeah Yeah, and our identity gets wrapped up in them and we get married to them They say don't get married to your cows. So if you if you can put her in the cull herd You're not married to her no more. So you've had a fight. Yeah Maybe And it's not either of your faults, but uh, the conditions were such that That you needed to part ways. Yeah, and you know, and I'll get a lot of people hanging on their cow herd, you know And maybe have some year ones Or even custom cattle they're grazing And a lot of times they let them go first But they might be the higher grossing Animals, so maybe they should stay they should come in anyway and the cattle herd should leave So, I mean in everybody's situation is going to be different on that depending on their operating style and input costs and so So if I'm hearing your summary there correctly, it's not only that we need to know the capability of our land to produce But we need to really know our financial assessments as well. Yeah, very much. Oh, yeah That's a lot of our decisions are based on that just as much, you know Yeah, yes, this is a lifestyle and there's no better place to be and raise a family than in range country That said though, it's still a business. It is still a business And I just told buzz was today, you know, there's he goes you like to do math You know to figure out them numbers And I'm like the thing is every ranch owner is a CEO of a multi-million dollar business And we need to treat it that way. Yeah It's often overlooked. Yeah Definitely true. Yeah, you don't believe it. We own three tractors go price three brand new tractors Or three brand new pickups or whatever Or fill them all with fuel or just the value of your land on that. Yeah Yeah, very good. Well, thank you for your time bard and folks you can always reach out to A group that we have not mentioned yet in this series of questions But it bears repeating from others and that is the the mentor network Um, you'll find barts name on there and contact information That is a publication that a host of conservation partners in south dakota went together and and solicited Some some folks that have experience So if you're new to ranching and are facing this struggle for the very first time You're likely to make some mistakes and why not have a sounding board over two or five And these folks have volunteered to be part of that network and and really do want your call and want to walk with you through And it's probably made the mistakes before you did so You know, I mean that's one thing we always try to learn from each other's mistakes and try to help That won't make hard decisions easy But you might be able to make them from a more informed position By walking in somebody else's shoes for just just a phone call or personal visit over calling