 This is a sad day a red day. I've been looking forward to this day of mourning for Yeah, it's been dead so long. It's hard to feel sad about it And it really is the version of stop Interesting that the flood Pulled away. Yeah Hello has become the flood the flood are now meta commentary on the halo franchise itself if this was smart I would agree with that, but this is just dumb zombies. It's not the flood Yes, that's actually true by just calling them the flood. I'm already giving it away Faction of zombies in the show because the covenant the first First It does feel like though is like it gets battered by the games and then it's like we could we could continue to shit on it through Other mediums like you could not also But I'm particularly thrilled about the idea of continuing the story that they created in season one I guess that's so many ideas for where to take it from there It's like they pulled back on a lot of them, too. It's an Season they chose to not recap as well They recap the events of every episode, but not the events of the first season Interesting. Yes. I don't remember like almost anything about the first season. I had a whole thing like All right, I think I think I remember this chick. I think I remember this You even for a moment forgot Kwanha. She's like the best character. What do you mean? Well, I did remember that she had a dumb-ass haircut and now that's better Yeah, they tried to fix that they realized like one improvement there They had their priorities, right? They fixed your hair Man, he really he really turned it around. He did such a great job Improving on what was you know a rocky foundation There was some ideas that were interesting and compelling, you know, absolutely John Halo was the man behind the mask. What it we need to explore the relationship between John and John Halo Sorry, I mean John Halo Master Chief. Yeah They're completely I thought you were gonna say John Halo and Cortana, but then I was like Yeah Well, that's not that was never like a part of Halo like on an almost basal level is the the connection between a human and a in an artificial intelligence in his head, right? An adaptation, right? It isn't true. It's an adaptation. They could have made it better They could have done something different and better. They could have adapted the tation What does that mean? That's pretty self-evident, isn't it? I wanted to bring up like Borg that uh It was May 22nd that the reupload of our stream of the first season happened I believe just introduce, you know, everyone here John was part of it. It was it was big fun. Patrician sort of recently started to interact with us But he's he's been known to dabble in Halo and hence why Bringing it and I believe I made good on my threat of the previous stream of Halo with er I said I was gonna have him watch season two and bring him back for this so I'm a man of my word And here we are, you know what you're getting into you signed up for e-fap. Yes But hey, you know here we are and uh much like last time I will be relinquishing the pilot seat because I'm just not as much of a halo man as uh as my friend Fringy here is Who I've experienced many conversations of torture listening to him about how halo's been destroyed rags, of course Relatively big into halo as well. Oh, I love halo. I less so I I'm hyper familiar with three and reach and when I say hyper I mean I've forgotten a lot of it, but I played the fuck out of him back in the day I gotta get around to one and two at some point He gets to enjoy the show just on a fundamental. Wow. This is just like an awful piece of television Yeah, the sadness is something that we get to particularly uh, I get to just be confused about it regularly I'm just like a regular bad show instead of a bad halo show Distinctly sort of grim experience of watching something that you used to love get consistently destroyed for the last decade Kind of culminating in this show really it does feel like the culmination of a decade long Destruction of what used to be one of the biggest gaming franchises ever ever this thing sold systems everyone knew about halo Everyone I mean master chief was I mean he still sort of is but in particular he was super iconic, you know He's now only like number seven on that list of uh the most iconic video game caravans Lyrocroft is number one above mario and you have the list it might be It might be worthy of a very short rundown of that list if you have it It's a very interesting. Are we all familiar with that uh that BAFTA like list of the most iconic video game characters? I'm familiar with it. I can't remember it off the top of my head, but it is a bizarre list You can't remember all the placements Um, I remember the one wrong one Well, yeah, this there's one distinctly like wow really Okay, what I was happy about is I have not come across anybody in any of the shows I'm a part of that have defended that number one slot everyone has said that's stupid It's it's um, it's insane Uh for for reference for those who don't know there was like a list that BAFTA did for Like the top, you know, the most iconic video game characters. So ascending from Well here, let's ask um What do you before we do the the list before we learn the truth? Yeah chat Who is the objectively correct answer for the most iconic video game character? Yes, who would you? I Yeah chat give us your go ahead and give us because one is pretty obvious Give us your top three most iconic video game characters of all time So give it give us your top three who you think are the most the three most iconic probably already say even by chat So mario's out of the way good, correct Yes, we now that we've established the correct the objectively correct answer that only a fool would say otherwise Who would chat say is next because at this point I think that there are like a few really really really like strong but easy answers to that Yeah, I would probably say Yeah, mario That's totally fair to me. Um mario pacman Um, I'm seeing a stumbling lack of a very obvious choice that I hear though, which is very interesting That's think there's a lot of obvious choices. You've got a you've got a pretty I think that a particularly obvious choice, um, the line piece from tetris Yeah, oh, I was I was thinking about the paddle from pong Um, this guy's the same guy. He's the same actor Yeah, it was actually cameo personalities. It's a allegory on depression h-24 made it Fight club fight club with pong where he realizes that the other pong is him Um, I I uh I've seen a lot of link, which I think is also another pretty obvious choice I'm uh, I'm surprised that there wasn't as many people saying pikachu since pokemon is like I think actually I think pokemon might actually have made more money as a franchise than mario at this point I'm not sure. I think it but I think it's not really like a figurehead of each pokemon game So he was the mascot of pokemon. He is the mascot of pokemon. Um He is he goes past video games in a way. That's just like cultural phenomenon Show trading cards all that stuff. It's just that mario is like Kind of like when you think of video games in the most general sense possible mario would be like the first character you think of But I suppose with all those answers out of the way. Let's let's go for a number two. We are A good amount of kratos in there. Which is interesting because he is kratos is not a bad part of a couple generations now He feels like you'd be right at the top of the sort of next tier Um It's what's interesting to think about is that with You know, that there'd be like a lot of characters where as soon as you mention them you'd be like, oh, yeah Like yeah, uh, it's interesting that you say that because I feel like you'd be there are certain characters You know like from rock star games, right? It's like look grand theft or though five is like I think the second best-selling video game ever I think you would I think it would have to be accepted that like maybe trevor would be like pretty high up on that list Even though you might be yeah Well, I would say um I would say that I think uh, steve from minecraft is yeah, I think really high up there as well Minecraft is the best-selling game of all time after all part of being iconic I would imagine is that if it's multi-generational spanning if my fucking parents can identify it pretty easily Which they would be able to with mario Then it's it's got a lot of power pac-man easily. That's why those two are really really strong choices But someone like a um, you know, like a master chief or kratos. Like I think my parents generation aren't going to be able to do either of those Um, but they'll know pikachu and pac-man and they might be able to think pikachu I'm not sure. Oh, right. They probably know pot donkey kong, right? I think so That's the real awkward part is that if you think about a list of iconic video game characters, it's going to look a bit like a lot of us nintendo Yeah Well, hey nintendo did the work they get to cash in there was that other tournament that was held where zelda games Just slaughtered everything that they went up against Well, like in terms of like ever they did like a A bracketed tourney of not game characters, but the games themselves and uh, I think in every category where a zelda game was up It won the vote And it culminated and I think ocarina of time winning like all times at the top of all time game lists a lot of the time Yeah, very frequently Which is why I was surprised that like link wasn't considered number one of zelda How it was so consistently a winner in that other bracket I will the interesting thing is that in terms of actual like sales It's now more recently that zelda has become like ultra successful It's always been very successful, but like breath of the wild Kind of catapulted it into we're talking like tens and tens of millions of copies sold It's it's like the switch has made it to where basically every nintendo series is more successful than it's ever been Uh, which is kind of an interesting phenomenon because it can be seen with basically every series metro dred Is the best selling metro game kobi in the forgotten land is the best selling kobi game Uh mario kart 8 i mean even down to you know the general franchise like mario kart 8 is the best selling mario kart game Super smash brothers ultimate. I think is the best selling super smash brothers game Um, yeah, it's just like every single series is getting even more and more successful on switch Which is why To spoiler this list is very under representative of our nintendo characters compared to Whether I should be sitting there's there's the tournament that before this game's character list was making the round itself for being a bit atrocious Well, yeah, I don't know if there's ever going to be a list that will make them happy But as to as to the number one most recognizable video game character Obviously mario We reveal the list now. Yes. I mean, you know, here's what the real list is it fools that we are we've been You know, we've been prattling on with our delusions, but Now we can check out what the real list is and ascending order from like number. Have you got it from like 10 to 1 I got 1 through 9 on here Well, I'll just wait top 20 on the list, right? Yeah, so well, I think it goes even further than that but 20 is naked drake Uh, which is like I don't I don't know if you should be on that list, but maybe Well, it's you look, right? It's recognizable on chart is a very popular series. Uh, number 19 is ellie Uh, 18 is uh Yes, that's right. Why just I I yeah, I probably should read out the game as well 18 is kazuma curio from yakuza 17 is Asterian from boulders gate 3. I haven't played it yet. All right. All right. I I think that I haven't played boulders gate 3 but no There is no way that any boulders gate 3 character should be on the top 20 iconic characters of all time Absolutely. Are they in more than just boulders gate 3, but they're citing boulders gate 3 or is it? No, there's older a stereo and I think was in too, but I mean that he's boulders gate 2 is not an iconic game I don't think that would even budget. Yeah It is there's a lot of recency bias with boulders gate characters being on this list Surely part of iconography for a character is that you haven't even played that game and you know some of the characteristics I think any of his characteristics other than I know why shadow heart is on this list. I'm just saying Well, I think that's uh, yeah, that's an interesting element of like what does it mean to be iconic? And it does seem like you're aware that some of them fans like Beyond even just like having even played the game that there's some you're like, yeah Yeah, I recognize that character. I've heard of him. I know what games he's been especially people like us who play games a lot Mm-hmm 16 is cloud from final fantasy 7 Which it's like, yeah final fantasy 7 is like the most popular one. So 15 is crash, which is interesting because it's like man. It has been like a long time since his heyday, but God damn during his heyday What a lad. Uh, I think he should be higher. That's just me Number 14 is engage engagement bait. Uh, the wrong solid sneak Uh, uh, well, yeah, 14 is solid snake. Uh, that is not solid snake That's uh Yeah, whoops, or sorry, it'd be the snake that you know, you can program on your like on your like calculator He's pretty iconic Potentially snake 13 is steam from minecraft who should be much higher much higher. He should probably be top five Yeah, um, number 12 was Pikachu who again, I think should be much higher top three I was Pikachu beaten up by fucking boulders gate three characters. That makes sense Because the people who answered this list are Silly, I think I think it is just we're encountering the problematic areas of the list now the seriously Yeah, well 11 is Arthur Morgan, which I think is really fair when you actually could turn out to be the perfect place for him In retrospect, I love the characters. Yeah Number 10 is shadow heart from boulders gate three. So already we've encountered like there's only one Spoiler the only mario character is mario on the list, right? Like and yeah, there's oh, yeah There's no way a boulders gate three character should be on this list I'm sure the game is excellent and amazing, but let's be honest for but like bowser should be on the list bowser should be on the list recognize video game characters if if we're not limited to one person Eggman made it as well Yeah A lot of these people Shadow the hedgehog. I would say that shadow heart isn't even the most recognizable character from her own game It's I would say a lot more people talk about parlac because of the porn. Yeah, this is the dark orange So it's Oh, yeah, go on I was just gonna continue in with the list of that Uh, number nine is kredos from good old god of war Yeah, which again, when you think about it at this point, it's like, yeah, I mean he is pretty recognizable He's probably the most recognizable playstation character at the moment Yeah, he's been around a few generations and that's the big thing about him is he's he was big for several eras which is or at least all the one which is always handy Um, number eight is master chief, which is an interesting one because we'll talk about this when we Oh, yes, we will Should be on the list but what I am curious about now is like what kind of demographic would be What kind of demographic would be most likely to put him really high on the list? What kind of demographic at this point would be like, oh, I mean, yeah, like he's yeah Like I mean, I guess I know who he is but like he's not being that relevant for a long time, you know I think we'd have to argue he's a bit diluted now too. He's like all over the place. Yes If you if you made a list in like 2010, I could imagine master chief being like quite high But uh now it's it's like he probably does slide because there's just other characters that are on people's minds a lot more often than he is Um, I guess it's interesting because if you would have picked another xbox character Well, funny if we think about xbox ownership, it's like, I wonder how high banjo kazooie for instance would end up being Uh, I wonder if you did the list in like 2013 or 2012 how high Marcus phoenix would have ended up on the list Yeah, yeah, it's interesting to see the way you place it in the timeline What characters would end up higher because like again if you like if you place it in the ps2 era or like playstation 3 It's like I well now how high you get like ratchet and clank for instance um, or or uh, like jack and daxter But uh, anyway, number seven is link which again is insane. He should be like top five top Maybe top three, um Yeah Six is pac-man, which is like yep pac-man should be pretty high up now Now here's where we start to get into the what the really like number five is sack boy from little big planet No That's a thing. I haven't heard in that iconic character. It's just like I'm fine with him being recognizable to some degree, but like you can't be beaten all these other there's no way It's not happening. Look, I like sack boy. I like the character design. He's fun, but little big planet Came out like There's gonna be so many people who don't even know who that is Don't even know a little big big planet is it's like, uh, well, yeah It was like just into a very specific time when like little big planet was uh, was a big thing Because something like a pac-man I feel people discover pac-man whether or not there's even a new pac-man Just that's just something everyone finds out about Well, yeah, how everybody's got a space invaders and tetris and pong those are just things that you know about um Number four is sonic, which is it's funny because you'd be like, yeah, I mean that that makes about sense It's like, yeah, but it won't which character is still to come Number three is agent 47 from hitman No way That's insane I would be surprised if he was on the top 20 list period the fact that he's number 20 Why would they even say that what? I'm trying to think what got that many people to say agent 47 I have no I like what happened story that came out like a couple years ago. There was a movie Yeah, but that came out a while ago and nobody liked it. That's true Remind me again how this list was even procured. Was it like a voting based thing or Was a poll of 4 000 players Oh I would say that like hitman is intergenerational. He's had he's had his ups and downs over the years, but So be number three Yeah, no way. There's no way He's in that like he's in that credo solid snake master chief pack of like he's been Relevant he's a little below them. I'd say I'd say yeah He'd be like he'd be like in the room of like 20 to 30 would probably be where he'd be Slotting in I reckon maybe a little bit higher, but so maybe yeah, that's crazy um, okay, number two is mario Number two which if you don't know what number one was at this point is you just be like who is number one that they beat out Yeah, who is number one? We haven't mentioned this person Uh, yeah, we haven't done that so Number one is Lara Croft from Tomb Raider the most iconic video game character of all time Oh, she's from a game. I'd only ever seen her in porn. That's how I recognized her I don't even knew it from the iconic movies with actually the jolly Boy once so interesting because I remember like, you know in the early 2000s It's like oh Lara Croft. Oh wow Lara Croft, but like that was a long time ago And I feel like Tomb Raider look right. I don't think I feel like Tomb Raider hasn't been that culturally relevant for a long time I feel like I'm sharp. It's been um, like it's come up recently with like cultural war stuff, but Certainly not come up recently because of an amazing new game or anything I mean the last game came out like Five years ago and nobody really talked about it Like the I don't and then there was that movie that came out that nobody watched either We got the um, I watched it in theaters But the remaster that came out for the original three games, right? I was curious. There's that This is something that it's probably something that's worth adding is like to like Lara Croft being somewhere on the list It's like, yeah, she'd be fairly high Joe she's in that same age at 47 She would be above hit man You should probably around kratos level a little bit below kratos. I think Because she's iconic to agree How high she would end up on that uh on that list to be if we'll be in like, you know, it'd be interesting Is if people have heard of the characters, sure But as if the six of us took this selection of 20 and ordered them in what we believe to be most At least iconic and see how our list compare Oh, um, I guess the interesting thing is that it's like what does it mean to be for lack of a better word? Impartial, I guess in terms of like figuring out where the characters sit because I mean, I fucking love crash bandicoot And it's like well, how high do I think you would actually go by? What I think is their recognizability within all generations averaged out Yeah, I would just say do the parents test would your parents recognize that character put them at the top I guess that's an interesting one because how many parents would recognize steve from minecraft Yet, how high do we think? The two variables we have to consider the parents one, but then the sheer impact they have with the current generation as well Like because these would be huge um Potentially more than sonic's current impact, but sonic has a huge Sonic has a legacy impact. That's the thing. Yeah, like mario sonic pac-man Interesting that mega man's not on the list because I feel like even mega. Yeah, mega man. Oh, yeah Enough legacy that he should be even though it's you know being a while since we're hasn't been that long since the last game, right? But i'm surprised he's not here somewhere More list. Oh, yeah, mega man. Yeah, it's a it's a great. It's a what a list There was a time where arbiter would be on this list. There was a fucking time Yeah, that's a recency bias thing like if this was asked, let's say 15 years ago You know sam fisher would be on this list That's that's true. Yeah, it's it is interesting to think about how that had to flow Now he's down into probably the top 50 at this point Yeah, which is still pretty good, but yeah people think he's in a cabela's game now I get it Thank you Well, that was a nice Talk about the uh halo show. Well, that was a nice little tangent. Yeah, it's um, it's about time for the misery We've been trying to delay it, but Oh the misery By the time that we're done, we're going to be looking like uh, I look right so in the thumbnail That's uh, that's that's good old arbiter in this show But I like to call them mr. Mandibles Because I like to give them fun names to differentiate the characters So we're going to be looking a bit like that probably by the end pretty uh Pretty pretty miserable, but look right thank you for that. We'll get we'll be miserable together. So don't worry It's important like um him at the end of the first episode of smiling friends Uh, oh, yes, that's a good one. It looks like uh, the all quiet on the western front kid A thousand yards stair. Yeah, I'll forget the name. I've read the book. I forget his name um So I figured that the easiest way to start is good all good all like uh, what did everybody think about uh, Halo the television series season two. Why don't we go? Yeah, we'll go left to right. So er, why don't you Tell us what you thought about season two Clear the mines for the rest uh, uh mainly trash um, but Uh, I just I I literally couldn't follow Most of what was going on. I didn't understand Like I legit didn't understand Many of the plot threads going on why anyone was doing what they were doing Um, that's good that's It might work to the strengths to to the show's advantage Yeah What uh, I'll let you finish But what we will do is will definitely be doing a brief summary of season one because I know that most of you in chat Don't remember what happened. Uh, this this season two makes it very confusing. But yeah, continue season two doesn't even remember what happened Sorry, go ahead Uh, uh, well, what else is there really to say? Um kind of uh, uh, it was expected, but you know, uh, the dude was in his fucking suit for How many episodes I think it ended up being four episodes, uh from episode Like about 10 minutes into episode three until the very end of episode seven. Yeah, that was very very noticeable. Um fun times and um One other big point, but I'm forgetting because this this show kind of fried my brain a little bit That's okay. Yeah, that's that's kind of the gist of it It's a bit terrible Slightly better than the first one because I remember the first one was so surreal an experience that I just Look, all right better better ending Well, uh, it's kind of Um, so I hate it, uh, as I really really dislike it. Um, but I I Don't know that I would call it an improvement if I if I ever did it would be in the most like marginal slightest sense possible But like this season is riddled with problems all of its own of its own making Uh, aside from the ones that it inherited and frankly the ones that it created Uh, in part because they wanted to run away from certain aspects of season one Um, but on the other hand they Clearly could tell that they couldn't and it seems like there was a degree to which they thought that some of the ideas in season one were actually workable And so what you end up with is like a season that's comparably messy to season one Um, terrible character writing horrendous world building an absolutely insane plot It seems to stem from the writers having like this idea that they need to create these insane like subplots and conflicts In order to keep things interesting rather than just adapting the central conflict that was present in the games And yeah, of course, it's a Continues to be an incredibly unfaithful adaptation of the games. I hate it. Um, that's my piece for now Uh This was crushingly boring Uh lame overall I had such a hard time paying attention I have a fidget toy It helps me with like editing and writing sometimes and I was mashing Things on it like crazy just trying to get myself to like pay attention what was happening I had to rewind it a bunch of times because I was just like what the fuck happened. What was that? What's going on? There are like there's some filmmaking and editing decisions that are just so fucking jarring Where I'm like, I can't believe they did it like that so much of the dialogue is Flawed I don't care about any of the characters When anybody dies, there's no You don't feel anything Okay, cool. I guess well not cool. It all sucks almost all of it sucks Like there's a few action scenes where I was like that looks kind of cool There are a couple scenes where the dialogue I did find Interesting, but then whenever that happens, it's like only in matter of minutes until it's like, oh, it's dog shit again um Yeah, it was I wouldn't have even bothered watching the season honestly if if uh, if it wasn't for the fact that I knew I was going to like Talk about it Yeah I just slogged through it and uh Just really disappointing. I can't believe it took us this long to get onto the fucking halo ring like two seasons Like it should have been should have taken one season at most To get onto the prologue of all fucking time Yeah So Yeah, I wasn't impressed. It was pretty good Other than that it was great Well, so thumbs up I was uh as mentioned in a unique position for the most part because this comes across in an abstract way as just another Weirdly high budget sci-fi tv show and then someone was like like spilled a bucket of halo on it And it was like oh he messed that up and it's like that's fine Whatever it all this all stuff that you recognize But it's all just misplaced and randomly thrown in not that I would ever be able to tell that fully But the watching it it's just like any other really bad tv show It's the the basic cause and effect of everything is so fucking muddled and confusing the um The writers goals are so obvious with almost every scene like you'll just have the very forced Events happening, but you know, whether it's um Character payoffs that are on the way that need to be set up Your typical stuff like one of the funniest ones and you guys will see this when the halo episodes come out Is uh, there's an episode that begins with a character who's uh, you know, just like admiring birds And we were all like he's dead It's like look at look at this guy. He likes his animals. Oh, isn't that sweet? Oh, he's such a nice Well, he's Arley. They're trying to characterize his character. Yeah time is limited That's the that's what walking dead used to be known for like the memes It was like oh, whatever get a character that gets slightly more attention than usual is like well, they're fucked And um, yeah, that goes the same for like everything that's built up Um, and then you know, you have that but then you also have these really wide stretches of time Where you fall asleep wake up and you've missed nothing You're like, uh, okay. Yeah, just keep going and of course you may be like, well, wait, what was you know seven x 23's You know singular pattern file and then you a friend just goes. Oh, yeah left and you go, right Yeah, I got it I'm making sure it's so I can You know keep up to date But um, every once in a while they'll throw in a scene that's clearly like it's just funny even from my pov, right? It's uh, kind of playing on screen now. You'll see it soon But the the scenes of you like that, don't you? Yeah Look at that. They're doing their fights. You remember. Hello. You did the little fights And they I feel like more of that was given this season not much more But more enough that they were like surely people on social media will say they like this come on We've done their thing now and then once they do it Yeah, once they do it, they're like now we can have our three hours of characters talking with the helmets I'm like, no So, uh, yeah, I thought it was absolute shit. Um, but kind of funny Um, I kind of wish it was funnier, but you know, we take what we get patrician Um, I had come into this with a kind of unique perspective as somebody who was very invested into this back during Halo's heyday. I was one of those that read the books and all that I think the books are good adaptations of the games. They kind of mesh well together You don't need one to enjoy the other and um But I had missed the first season because I just didn't hear anything positive about it So why would I expose myself to that? so I got to come into this with a fresh perspective of Oji halo fan kind of fell off the wagon a while ago and hadn't seen the first season and they had talked in the marketing about how this was going to be like, uh a Correction to the great error that was the first season And so I thought well, I'm not going to be negatively biased towards the show if I don't watch the first season and uh All of that marketing was a lie. It just seemed to be continuations based on what I heard of things that were wrong with the first season and my perspective wasn't rewarded because um, they don't do a recap of the first season and so I Fringy gave like a five minute summary and that was all I had to go on for like Half of the plotlines that have nothing to do with the halo games where it's just knockoff expanse show Um, but the main thing that bothered me was as somebody who was familiar with the books It's very unrewarding to watch this show Because they do reference a lot of the things from the books, but they change almost everything about it So they're just saying names that you recognize key example being for example onyx Ghost of onyx was a really well uh, accepted Not show but book And they used the spartan 3 program, but they it's completely unrecognizable to the spartan 3 program So it's just a reference that exists for the sake of having a reference. And so Uh as a halo fan, I just found myself perpetually disappointed because I can get into this whole like insurrectionist pre Finding the ring plotline If they actually did it the way that it had been done well before But if they're not going to do that, they should just skip to the part that are shown in the fucking games So it's it's I take it that you liked it thumbs up. Yeah, it was a My favorite scene was john sheif getting beaten to death for acting like a psychopath all season That was a good one. It was that was cathartic Oddly, yeah, I mean if there's one thing to be said about season 2 it's that it is consistent Oh God damn it. It is consistent in uh, john halo's continuing inconsistent insanity Yeah, they've created a fascinatingly strange character Whoever this guy is Riggs, what do you think of season 2? Oh boy. Um The other day I saw a picture of arbiter and ship master vedum Having a a gay sex together and it was it was really quite good. I really enjoyed it The dialogue was good. It characterized the two differently arbiter was a bit on the shy side But you know, we all knew it. We were there for good proportions great line work I enjoyed that one image that one jpeg More than the entirety of both halo show seasons if you squish them all together put them in a blender Strained them and took out all the good things. It wasn't as good as that one image I Hate this show I it's not my most hated show But as someone who really really enjoys the first five halo games halo 1 2 3 odst and reach Um, they made up a pretty big part of my gaming childhood I think that halo on the on the xbox was the first first person shooter I ever played Um, I have a lot of memories of playing halo with my friends at sleepovers birthday parties visits get together That's all that that's all that whole thing So to see it desecrated like this is legitimately, uh, kind of upsetting to me and I hate it I I hate what they changed. I hate many of the details about it I despise So much about this show from top to bottom The characters what it's trying to say thematically the details they brought in from the games the The way that the plot unfolds in the bizarre structure I hate it pretty much through and through my um My Complements to the show would probably not broach Anything past the most superficial That thing looked kind of cool kind of comment But that's really as far as it goes The show should not have been made and if you are a big halo fan who is just waiting for that big You know show slash movie adaptation that honestly it kind of deserves then Unfortunately, I will have to refer you back to the books or to the excellent graphic novel But apart from that Thumbs down from me thumbs down from me talking So, yeah Not a Yeah, so not as good as the point nobody here nobody here particularly enjoyed it Which is kind of interesting to think about because um the general scent It's funny to say the general sentiment since I don't even know that there is one. I feel like this uh, this season has been distinctly less Talked about then season one which makes a lot of sense really when you think about it Like if you come out with a first season that is pretty much unanimously seen as being shit Um, yeah, there's there's a lot of people who just aren't going to show up next time around and then there's the fact that you Know like halo at this point at the lowest it's ever been Um, but I mean the the the sort of the idea surrounding this season is well, it's an improvement It's an improvement on season one Um, isn't it amazing that we're in a culture that like allows that to be the commentary for something that costs hundreds of millions of dollars Well, it was better than that really really awful season of television that was also like a hundred million dollars Like it's a child who's doing little crayon drawings and it's like that's really good compared to you're even better Look last year you did that just you did this that's great I suppose what's interesting when you say that is it's like they simultaneously get the benefit of look at how hard All of these people worked on this thing you can't dislike it because that would be mean But then simultaneously get the benefit of like well, yeah, but that you know Like it's it's not like this is a 100 million dollar. It's not like this show has a budget considerably higher than Basically the majority of television shows ever produced throughout all of time Or even the majority of films that have been made throughout all of time they they had so much money. It's crazy It is not fair. It's not fair Well, they got so much money to do this to halo It just isn't fair with all the stuff that you could do with all of the incredible potential That exists in the halo universe to make a show It just isn't fair that someone was able to be given a check of this size And this is what they mean. I mean in a sense like getting a set the thing is I think the second season got um Greenlit before the first season came out. So I guess they came into it with a lot of confidence. Which is pretty funny Um But it is pretty crazy that after season one they'd be like, yeah, let's let's continue with this This is a it's a good idea to continue with this premise that we've laid for ourselves because Before we dive into season two It's probably worthwhile to go through briefly And for too long the general events of season one just to get everybody up to speed on uh on Essentially how the first season of the show made it to where the idea of a faithful adaptation of halo even in subsequent seasons Should have been accepted as being impossible um It is like season one is uh leaves you in a place that is so massively Different from the games that there's no point even clinging to the hope of whoa It's gonna be faithful. Um, and then of course you've just got the fact that it was a really terrible season of television What you know what what does everybody here generally remember about season one? Like what would be the thing that sticks out to your master chief fucking died. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah That's right. That's what I remember But wait, how could how could that be possible if he was in this? What do you mean? I know they fully explained it really quickly. This was a prequel. They put them on a they put them on a medical table Yeah, oh, those are good And then they jumped ahead six months and he's fine squeeze the light. Yeah At the end of season one John halo, they were they were having a battle with the covenant Um, when they were about to find halo using ancient forerunner artifacts called keystones And they were losing and so john halo talks to cortana and says here's what i'm gonna do I'm gonna kill myself and you're gonna take over my dead body So that you can save the day cool And then he walks up to a brute who hits him with a gravity hammer and kills him And then cortana takes over his dead body and saves the day. That's what happens at the end of season one That's a thing that happened. We're not fucking with you. This isn't a joke That's actually what it has been near two years since we talked about this. So some people may have forgotten It's possible that they were being it was immensely confusing, but they were pretty they were very I'm not even gonna say they were pretty clear. They were very clear that he that he was dead. He he died But he didn't Makes no fucking sense like why would the hammer kill him? Like why would he think like This is This is my sacrificial moment the hammer will hit me and then I will be dead and I mean out of this show Evidently it didn't the the main thing that doesn't make sense that like the whole plan itself is it said Yeah, I'm gonna die and then you can take her over my courts. That makes sense Yeah, and so just to be clear that cortana and master or sorry, john halo were friends all through that season, right? Up until that point where she took him over They were aware of one another The show is like they become friends kind of in episode nine after having very few conversations with each other But why would he let her take over him if they like didn't really know They have a relationship. That's why because the writers think that they created a relationship Because the writers have the audacity to think that they're even marginally prepared to write a television show The reason in the show is that they decide they're outnumbered And they need to get the artifact off the planet So it's like you take over my body and then I can operate with like a hundred percent efficiency and just like taking everybody out and then you know Any stated reason that they couldn't do that while he was still alive Uh, no, not only because the show sets it up that it was the idea that cortana was designed to be able to supplant his consciousness Has nothing to do with whether or not he was dead. It doesn't even make sense. If you're dead, your body doesn't work That means yeah, that means you'll make cannot support the conscious state of the brain Do we assume you do you think uh, for instance, you're the expert do you feel there was maybe a plan for a story that they scrapped Absolutely. So so for reference, um, the season ends with Paul's are giving a big speech about all of their brilliant ideas And they're really smart themes that you wouldn't know because you played the pew pew shooty game And we're making the high art and talking about all, uh, you know humanity it leaps forward and all that shit and um The episode ends the season ends on john halo's cracked visor So I think it was very obvious that the direction they were going in is Yeah, maybe he saved the day, but at what cost to himself look at him. He's barely a man He's a shell. He's a husk. He's just a machine and we'll see what that looks like in season two And then they were like, oh fuck that and change their mind Yeah, it does it does have like the fuck that energy considering that the second season basically starts with Well six months later, he wakes up and then we just are doing a different thing. Yeah, he's totally fine life goes on Think about the pivot of the season ends with cortana having supplanted john halo's consciousness to Cortana has been taking out of john halo and they will not reunite until episode eight The finale of the season it's obviously that wasn't where they were going with the story That's like that's that's the clearest pivot in season two, which I suppose we'll talk about at a bit more length later But I still want us to recap the more memorable moments of uh Of the first season john. What is what's the thing that you remember most about season one? like moments or uh the The whole wedging mckay in And it feeling like she's gonna be the replacement for arbiter basically throughout the whole Show and I feel like they're sort of sticking to that Well good that she was only a season one element, right because she died. Yeah I Let's put it this way if you show somebody with a hot like bleeding out of the middle of their chest and when they fall to the ground They've got dead eyes. I assume they're dead not that they're gonna be up and about uh next season So yeah, I think it's safe to say that she was dead and for some reason the writers of season two thought It would be a good idea to bring her back mckay's back in season two guys. She's Prominently they don't even attempt to give me more than one time. Do they they don't explain it? They don't give a reason. Um, the only thing that they do with it is that she kind of can't use the artifacts so well anymore That's it. But they don't know why he's live I think it's because like oh, she got shot. So something happened and now she can't do her genes I thought The connection with johnny boy Yes, and that and that restarted her connection with the forerunner stuff. So that's all good But yeah, she's back and I agree with you, uh, john. It's like Basically, I think it's safe to conclude that the rationale for them was you can't relate to an alien So the the bad guy's got to be a human Even though if we're keeping elements of the if we're adapting the fact that the covenant even exists in a waging a war on humanity It makes it a little bit odd That the central figure of their religion and the only person who can use the artifacts of their gods And the and that it's known that the only person who can do this is uh, mackey that she even has a name blessed one Seems weird. This is known. She's not a secret character. Yeah Like it it's just it ruins everything. It can't work and it's stupid It's stupid the idea that you need to have a lame human character instead of a cool alien character Uh, either because you didn't want to do all the animation for it or because you probably the more likely reason is That like we can't be an alien. We can't it can't be an alien. We can't have like an alien purely character Just got to be a human I do think it's a bit of that like worrying that audiences aren't going to connect with an alien character and also budget reasons like anytime there's an alien on screen Like the vfx budget goes up considerably. So it's just like Long term we would rather have a human character play that Roll basically you can't have a sex scene with an alien Yes, you can Well, you can It's um, they did want it It's it's how do you mention john like the the budget thing because if you guys recall in season one Uh, there were I think three episodes. It might have been three or even four episodes Where you do not see a single covenant like alien. You don't see an elite. You don't see like a jackal You don't see a brute. You don't see any covenant at all and like I think I want to say like At least three episodes of season one maybe four A long a long time one of our biggest complaints about the first season was how like they're The aliens are conspicuously not present and not only are they not present They seem to be Not at all discussed by anybody to the point where we were Legitimately asking if humanity was aware that they were being destroyed by an alien race Or if everyone was taking like amnesia pills And we get a similar problem in this season But it is something that they've been consistent with at least Which is humanity doesn't really seem to care that there's a conglomeration that this massive galactic alien confederation that wants to destroy humanity Well, it's um, it's a problem that's consistent in both seasons that um, that the the more prominent antagonistic elements of season one and two Humans not not the covenant in season one Halsey was a really prominent like antagonistic character as well as elements of the unsc chain of command And you also had the quan subplot Where there was like infighting there that really didn't have anything to do with the aliens at all and season two was created like new threads where There's a more prominent antagonist than the covenant like at least in terms of the amount of screen time that's dedicated to Dealing with those plots And I think I think it just does seem to stem from this like idea that the human covenant war from the perspective of the writers isn't interesting enough To justify the existence of the show that they need to create intrigue and and like drama Like and and subplots involving like breakdowns in the unsc And infighting in humanity, which is bizarre For a halo show. Yeah, it's it's strange that ultimately the I mean especially the books the books are essentially military themed books The characters are basically all members of some branch of the military It follows the spartans and other military characters and this massive military conflict And it goes into a lot of the logistics and command structure elements of it It isn't like a human drama. It is a military themed drama at most is the furthest you can bring it And it's to the strength of what it is It is a an excellent strength of the books that you get this from a military lens And that's the perspective of pretty much all the characters in it It is a book about a war. It's a book about war Not to throw us too off topic on that thought because it's a bit more to do with the kind of change and Halo is a theory something that I've definitely noticed especially since 343 has taken over Is like kind of turning like as though master chief is like a superhero who did it all by himself As though there wasn't like a massive amount of uh people and and um and like aspects of the military that were supporting him And that were there with him the whole time Like the idea that they forget about all those marines on the gas cannon in the back seat Well, it's just um, do you guys remember the opening cutscene for halo 5? Do you guys remember like what that cutscene was? Is that the one where they they surfed down a mountain and shoot at Prometheans? Oh, yeah, I remember that. Yes. It's the basically the long oh that one. Yeah, that was Tyrants that were the main characters of halo 5 Um, basically they jump out of a pelican and just like fly into this war zone and just Blow past a whole bunch of covenant and Prometheans fighting each other like pretty effortlessly Like superheroes flying around with their jetpacks and everything and from an animation perspective It's a really cool cutscene, but like I think that's really bad In terms of in terms of like reflecting that the change in like what's happened with uh spartans Um that it used to be that yes, master chief was the most powerful person in like any given situation But that it was a massive military A big effort involving marines and involving odsts and command Uh combined arms warfare and everything like that to this place now where it's like well master chief He's like the one guy the superhero who will like solve all of the problems and that you can kind of see it reflected here that Like you said rags It you don't get the impression that like the military component of the story is particularly prominent even though So much of the story is focused on the human conflict and like the unsc and oni and all of the infighting there And yet it really doesn't feel like much of a military story at all And I think a big part of it might just be that it's it's difficult to see the military component in like the battle It's just john halo blasting through everything single-handedly for the most part Um, they it's in between the the occasional intermittent terrible fight sequence. You never get that scene where Like here's the here all the commanders and the co's and the people in charge and the higher ranking people And they're in the forward operating base or on their ship and they're looking at this big tactical display of what's happening in the battle They're communicating with this person who tells the soldiers to do this This person tells this ship to do that you get no sense of tactics or strategy happening So there's no if you go into this show thinking it'll be like the games or books and there's going to be this Like this war component to it that's interesting and tactical and strategic You're just going to be super disappointed because the people who made this don't have any interest in that or don't know anything about it Or it's just it's not the story They want to tell or have any interest in telling I would say you have an issue if you're adapting a halo I would say that you would also struggle to really care about what's going on in the storyline If you haven't read the books though, and that's what makes it a bit of a paradox to watch Is who is this show for? Yeah, totally agree with that like the the idea that the show was made for people who don't watch halo If if you didn't know anything about halo, you would be lost on the most basic The most basic of things of like why is the covenant even at war with humanity? You would be absolutely lost on those basics Like why it became pretty obvious for me was there's so many moments of just like oh, I was supposed to know what that is wasn't I There's a non-zero amount of people in the world who will watch this show And for whatever reason the show will make them want to play the games And then they'll kind of experience it in reverse order Most people will play the games and then Watch the show But there are some people who watch the show and then play the games and I can't help but think what a bizarre That is going to be for them to go from the show to the games and see like oh, this is completely different in basically every way Yeah, it's got to be strange Oh, by the way more or what what is the most? What's the thing that you remember most from season one? Like what's the thing that jumps out at you? Well, I mean it can't not be that that wonderful meme it pops up on meme faps every once in a while of uh Maki going to touch the The artifacts and the guy behind it grab me like Been into ashes. I remember that whole sequence being pretty hilarious by extension They're um, they're wonderful sex scene that was definitely needed You know because I was thinking about how um Like what is the latest high budget sci-fi person with alien sex scene that we've actually gotten I was like Oh, shit. It was uh rebel moon. I think that's the closest we've gotten. It was that weird tentacle monster that the guy was having sex with Hopefully we will get the full scene in the extended. Um, maybe we'll even get it in rebel moon too coming next week Um, but yeah, I'll see the romance blossom. Yeah, any case. Yeah, uh Oh, there's so many little bits. I remember The distinct memory of him raging with the iron man perspective Um, uh Uh in episode five they have a big battle and john halo jumps on a banshee and flies it directly into a phantom And it explodes with him at the epicenter and he's fine Uh, and he just walks out covered in covered in a covenant blood And he starts punching the mandibles off of an elite and he's screaming with the iron man pov And it doesn't even make sense because when they cut to what's actually happening his head is like moving So if he was looking at the elite his like eyes would have to keep moving But because they don't care. He's just staring straight ahead screaming, which is one of many of um My because that's the thing I remember most from season one is john halo screaming My favorite one is when he screams. What am I after I touch being the keystone? I love it It's because we know their attitude, right? What am I having emotion having a person's face doing emotion that that's that's art that that's storytelling Mm-hmm Or he lunges at at halsey in an attempt to beat her to death, uh, because he's so mad and then screaming Um, there's you can get in line if he wants to punch her to death. Okay He's just he's he's such an unhinged like that to me sticks out as the most you're gonna say loser or lunatic I was like i'm indecisive Because he started with the You started with lou and then you just quit and I was like, which one was it gonna be? I think that's the main legacy of season one is the absolute destruction of master chief to the point that he is john halo Or jimmy rings or master chief jimmy rings I do like jimmy rings. It's a fun name But that's like john halo encapsulates it excellently as part of that like the metameme of this is john The person this is person from game. This is game person Yes, this is him. You recognize him, right? And this is like this horrible facsimile just like these bits of his armor Clinging together with like bits of flesh in a scale like a big skull at the top um, but I mean it's you think about like what you see in season one in terms of the creation of a central character Is that they basically like created somebody who is impossible to predict To where the writers can make him do whatever they need him to do to create drama He's he's insane. He doesn't know what his emotions are. He's discovering him for the first time and that's making him crazy So therefore when he makes a bunch of insane irrational decisions that allow the plot to move forward You can't complain because that's just who he is a lunatic If for people who might not remember a useful archetype Uh throughout the first season Chief is touching the artifact and it's unearthing memories of him getting kidnapped by halsey halsey as a kid and Yeah being cut through the spartan program and and basically tortured through the process And he's like I get that he's mad about that But like I still don't think chief like character from the games even going through that experience Would like go totally unhinged like that and try to punch Halsey or you know stomp that alien's face like it just it felt way too jarring It made me kind of not like him like Yeah, it's just too extreme A bit of a bit of a problem that the show has and it by the way I would say like who the spartans are particularly with their emotion suppressing pellets It's interesting because you've got the scene playing right now. Mola has been like massively Fringy you can't just say that and not explain to the people what you mean by emotional suppressing Okay, so basically You say it's so matter of factly The spartans have emotion suppress. It's not that the spartans are naturally stoic as a result of essentially years of training and conditioning It's not that their past experiences have actually turned them into who they are It's that they have a pellet in their spine That suppresses their memories and makes them robots except it kind of doesn't because um, not only is there a lot of like Confusing elements in season one that make it very unclear like what exactly does a spartan look like without their pellet Because they certainly show emotions in season one, but like in season two you've got this scene where they introduced a new spartan So we never seen before code called cobalt who are aggressive confrontational jealous snarky Like they have a whole bunch of traits, but they Essentially chastising silver team, which is the main team of spartans that includes john halo because they have feelings now because they remove their pellets It's very very very Very confusing and it helps the writers because it makes it even harder to pin down who exactly john halo is in season one and continuing into season two and really all of the spartans it creates it um A confusing aspect of like who are they actually and what do they actually believe in and it was on the point that you were talking about john In terms of the nature of like this aspect of his history being something that's upsetting to him Something that in season one they don't really want to deal with at all and it feels like it's part of the reason why the covenant Story line is in the background so frequently is that you have to pair How he's feeling about all of that with who he is now and the unique position he's in to fight in the human covenant war Um, but it's not something that they pair together to explore which is really stupid because it's just good drama That's interesting Like somebody who's had a difficult a really terrible thing happened to them The consequence of which has now made them a uniquely capable person To save humanity and how does that make them feel and and how much are they willing to set aside as part of that uh Brought a conflict, but instead they're just like Don't want to deal with that. I suppose by the way as you know It's almost like trying to tie off the relevant things from season one Kwan was a major part of season one guys Do you remember? She was like the prominent character of the first fucking episode She had a whole episode with all her own uh episode seven was a one episode In closing on what you would just say by the way because it's just trying to remember the quote uh You know future abba the um It's like beta robot is great, but we don't have emotions and that makes me sad But that that would summarize their approach with the uh the spotans Definitely definitely I would also just like to add regarding the pellets that the removal of them was the dumbest Shit like because they are Performing self-surgery on themselves with a knife at the base of their spines They're being told what to the uh master chief was told what to do verbally by cortana and his head And then he performed the surgery that he could not see on his spine and pulled the pellet out He was standing out in front of a bathroom mirror naked And the instruction that cortana was giving wasn't even that specific She was just saying like 10 centimeters or something, but it's like which direction you haven't you haven't told him Or vertical he's got a blade in his spine you got to tell him exactly what to do otherwise like you risk paralysis I think the funniest part of that scene is that john halo was seriously going to try and do it himself Before she told him how to do it. He was actually holding it back with no idea where exactly it was because he was actually going to give it a shot without a help Yeah, it's not kind of you know take charge attitude that I that I really like about john halo He's just going for it. You can't be indecisive. You can't have analysis paralysis. You have to perform surgery and then have actual paralysis Yeah, you can't let someone stop you with rules about stabbing yourself in the spine Fuck that red tape. Are you a man or a mouse? I feel it is important to explain that kwan had a major storyline in season one because It's important for your context going into season two. She like rag said she was a major pov character She had a big subplot in madrigal that also had some connections to the forerunners as well And she got a whole episode all her own where she basically like fought a bunch of bad guys and one And the very clear setup at the end of her story is look at her go. She's going to fight for the independence of her home Did we say she got rose decode Yes, I think it's safe to say that she very much for reference guys Madrigal the planet she was going to fight for the independence for was destroyed off-screen between seasons so funny Yeah No to be rose decode is to be disliked so heavily by the audience that your role is reduced significantly Inassibly sidelined and have your own storyline cut off It's it's so crazy It's it's like guys to get hit with all of these retcons and like changes and pivots in the story in like 15 minutes is stunning It was like yeah, we were it was whiplash Because the show just starts and we're like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no You can't do this. What about I watched that first season god damn it And now you're just like acting like that doesn't matter that was my life That's right. She even said that this isn't my life while talking about the new storyline that give into a it's funny as well as um hopefully that gives everybody a general idea of the shenanigans of season one uh i think if you were to do a poll most people in chat would still have no idea what's happening it's impossible to catch you up yeah i'm 50 50 myself it is short about a time look all right don't worry we're gonna get to the reset button we're trying we're doing our best this second season will start and you won't have to worry about it before we like dive headfirst into season two i think what uh i find interesting to talk about in relation to feet first uh why because of the odsts yeah but it's headfirst because they're jumping into like a shallow end it wouldn't it be funny to be like practice school as implications of how fuck this is they would send their odsts head first yeah no the odsts would be like a naval unit like a water navy unit that's how the halo show would handle odsts well i like that they drop into the ocean and they're deep ocean they're just they're just aquatic units i thought you were trying to say they would drop into the ocean they just drown we'll get that ocean one day do we get any stratagems no no no stratagems what the only thing that happens is that is your pod slowly sinks into the abyss and you run out of oxygen we play halo season one and two non-stop as you sink into the dark have fun um what what i found interesting i guess coming into because it's two years separated between season one and two um and the looming thing over season two was we all know that everybody hated season one and you know that they hated season one so what are you going to do about it like did anybody here have any expectation in season two that was actually going to like improve more action well what would they would want to do more more action get more killing of covenant wasn't there a rider strike between the first and second season well then it should have gotten better right the second season was shot before the rider strike happened so okay remember season season two got greenlit before season one premiered i think season two began shooting some months after season one uh ed and wrapped up i think about a year ago so it was all more or less set in stone before that happened there's also a shift in show runners i think initially had two show runners steven kane and someone else i can't remember and then one of them left and then the other guy left and then like a new guy came came on david ween for season two i think is a walking dead guy oh okay i think they might have picked him because of like the flood introduction i'm not sure about that though uh yeah spoilers guys i introduced the flood in this season well there's zombies before they're not recognizable don't worry if they hadn't told us it was the flood we would have been like oh what's this weird thing they made it for the show the covenant practically active the flood until then anyway that's something that um is interesting to look at is kind of in in terms of like the approach to season two was the nature of um how in talking about it before it came out there was certain like kind of it's interesting to see i guess what you would call like the marketing strategies through the kind of quotes that are being given by like actors and and executive producers and stuff going into the season because there was definitely much more of a look guys we're going to do more of the things that you like while also basically admitting that they were still making their own show feels like the noteworthy one is a Pablo shriver saying you know like if you don't like master chief taking this helmet off then like you're just not going to like this show is not for you um which is pretty fun considering what happens in season there's great marketing though top notch well and that was after a couple weeks of them like trying to vigorously show off various posters of them wearing the helmet so he did a lot of the marketing that they had been doing it's funny you say that because they pivoted to a lot more posters of him not wearing the helmet um they they had a lot more posters of him not wearing the helmet uh than wearing it for the promotion season i remember and made fun of the one where he's on the pelican and not wearing his helmet but do you remember the one of him sitting on a throne i don't remember there being a throne there was one of him like sitting on a throne um okay let me see if i can find it i mean that kind of matches the character's ego i guess oh yeah i mean i can't i can't come this far in and not mention the uh strip club scene and how the season just seems to be john halo getting a harem oh yeah there's a lot of weird weird decisions with john halo here it is that's that's a good way to just describe the both of these seasons the second one yeah that's the one i was talking about but there is a bizarre there's just a bunch of bizarre decisions that they made creatively for what to do with this show um and then they become even more bizarre when you pile on like this is supposed to be like a halo show about halo those games and books um it just makes it even more weird i think the clearest uh way to see the nature of how they wanted to market season two is you can think about in season one the marketing never had a master chief john halo man with his helmet off it was always in his full suit other characters had their helmets off but it was it was like they had an awareness that was going to be a big deal which is funny because they definitely they definitely failed in terms of reading what people wanted but season two all of the marketing has been full of reach it's all been full of reach full of reach full of reach you guys like reach you like halo reach you like the full of reach but if i like if i like the fall of reach why did i only get like three quarters of an episode about it and i think it is so thoroughly explained by this arrogance that you you guys don't understand when you have the phase we can the actor because you know the actor and the director i don't understand discuss it regularly about how much better their decision is they probably had scenes where he does he finishes acting they say curtain is like good god you imagine how much we would have lost had you had you have a fucking silly helmet on you'd be like i know it's crazy they're gonna so realize how wrong they were as if they've never looked to understand the argument they've always just been like no helmet cover space for those who hadn't seen it in season two they write in a reason why john has to be separated from the armor which is that only abandoned to reach in the middle of the night and took the armor with them but left the Spartans behind so that they could say that the Spartans died yeah um we will talk about that extensively but that's good about how they tried to create a reason to remove his armor so that they could be like look guys the reason why he's not wearing his helmet is not because he's choosing not to he can't i just i'm looking forward to talking about a particular character during the events of the fall of reach one guy in with his old grenade launcher they really doubled down an unfortunate victim of black history months they really doubled down on the no helmet thing and that really it came off as so arrogant you know absolutely yeah because they were definitely spiteful i'm just gonna i would say that like i basically believe completely that they have the attitude of we're making like our art while you guys just want to have like your little shooter game where you shoot the aliens and that's fine and that's fun that you can do that but we're like we're running with um with our really like great law that we you know we're creating this really riveting story that's asking what does it mean to be a human and all that stuff um yeah because they definitely i definitely get the sense that they think they've made something better which is what i find really funny to think about because um to jump really far ahead they do go to halo uh in episode eight and i was struck while watching that of how less impactful it was with all of the visual effects that they had of this like massively detailed you know vista of halo that that was way less impactful than in halo combat evolved walking off of the uh the the escape hard drop ship looking up at halo in all of its xbox uh original xbox glory that that was far more impactful than the consequence of two seasons of buildup and all of the visual effects you needed to realize it exactly how you wanted it in high detail um it's crazy just how much better and more valuable the games are as art than this fucking show it's one of the things angry thinking about this show is that is is just like you had all of the resources and you created something that without halo nobody would care this would never last you wouldn't even get the second season it'd be done nobody talk about it nobody remember it'd be of no value to anybody it's always felt so strange when there's a blueprint right there you know like the yeah and normally that if you copied it one to one people would be happy and you can take credit that's just how it works you can be like yeah i adapted it well so you know give me praise and it is pretty obvious oh sorry go for it john well i was i was just it's gonna say that i mean if you look at just the halo game cutscenes particularly the blur remasters for the um for halo um two and i can't remember if there's another one but like there's more emotion in the high charity cutscene of uh halo two then there has been in the entire two seasons of the show so far which is like a fucking joke and he never takes his helmet off and it doesn't matter because like you can tell what he's feeling because of the way it's shot like the way he kind of moves his head like it's all there you know all you had to do is look at it annoying misconceptions that they are trying to spawn that can't work is that john like the idea that that like john halo is the way that you have to do it when like mas chief is very much emotive at the moments that he needs to be throughout the games through animation and like you said through cinematography through music supporting like whatever's happening in that scene um it's insane like just for somebody who would say that be like just watch walley like can you watch walley and understand like how wrong you are in your attitude there is like a necessary amount of aspects of a character that need to be visible um in order for them to be relatable and emotive like walley doesn't even have like a he doesn't have a mouth you know like he barely even has eyebrows and it's like look at how expressive that character is and he's he is dramatically and massively more expressive than john halo without his helmet like ever could even be doesn't come close well it's interesting is um like i had to step up for just a second i assume you're talking about the insistence that he takes his helmet off all the fucking time but um if you hadn't mentioned it before i assume you did but yeah playing the games both master chief and court because a lot of courtana's lines come delivered as just a voice she does not have any sort of digital manifestation that you see she doesn't have a face she doesn't have any you know any posing it is literally just the voice and there are many moments in the games where courtana in particular has you can tell exactly what she's feeling just based on the delivery of um voice lines what she says to marines what she says about marines what she says to chief and the situation that they're in what they have to do you sense the sarcasm you sense the sadness you sense these emotions that courtana has when if anything she has even more of a restriction overall than chief does because chief is always at least being able to emote and look around and he's got like well emote in the sense of he has like a body that he's using and courtana doesn't have that and through the vast majority of her lines she's just a voice in your head and yet you can still pick up very clearly her personality so the games are able to do this with multiple characters figure out the line delivery consistently from uh john halo as well when you think about the nature of voice acting because like seriously i feel like the only way that the lines are ever delivered is what happened to cobalt why aren't you Tony they're doing it the company are here like it's always the same like gravelly delivery everything oh you've just reminded me of him raging at the man who changes the wooden blocks on the news update thing that shit was so funny the only reason they were wooden blocks is so a guy could show up to do that for him to get you we just didn't have it in the budget for a regular screen so we had to have the wood i know there's fucking monitors and screens everywhere else but here they have to have like a fucking 1950s baseball scoreboard thing where they like what a fucking waste of like staff power to change the blocks i don't know uh i've just stared what was happening in that scene we mentioned before there's a new spartan team called cobalt and they get sent on a mission that john halo believes are suspicious for crazy reasons that we'll talk about later and he's just standing in a room talking to his fellow spartan kai and there's just this intern changing like a pattern on episode two it's like right before the intro i'm just changing it with a black card that says cobalt is on standby and john halo is like wait what why did you change it what happened cobalt on our stand by what happened at cobalt and the dude was like i just i changed the board they tell me to change it then i change it i'm just doing my job sir i'm not the general i'm just the guy who changes the blacks and this is my contribution to the world war after he's knocked out of the room after demanding that he change it back to go yell at uh ackerson who's this new character that in the first episode he grabbed his arm when he was trying to leave so that like because again john halo is a nice unhinged guy that's not even the most unhinged thing he does this season in terms of just general demeanor there's one there's one instance where he just like stalks a woman to our apartment it's a good front sir like it's crazy he's a crazy guy right the guy changing the board it is like a janitor clearing out a locker and then he's like this person's not dead why are you doing that the janitor's like yeah i don't know what's going on i i was i was told to why are you the guy's fucking face it's such a funny scene but it's totally not intended that way at all it's meant to be a dramatic scene a lot of these things oh my god what happened to cobalt oh my goodness by the way the answers as to what happened to cobalt is so insane i don't even think the writers could explain it to us coherently um the answers are as insane as master chief looks throughout this season the last uh thing i'd like to touch on before we just dive straight into the plot is um it feels like in the time since season one uh came out that the video game adaptation landscape has a really like changed a lot um there's been like a lot more adaptations have become a fallout just came out um but also that there's been like massive success for a lot of them as well the last of us was incredibly successful for hbo mario was one of the most successful films uh of the the year like i think sonic 2 came out was really successful as well um and that there's generally been like a clear shift that we've entered into i'd say we've entered into an era where at the very least video game adaptations are gonna look like uh the game um and in better instances they'll try to actually like capture the spirit of uh of the game in a more like apparent sense or just do like direct adaptation or you get stuff like arcane where it's like you've you've created something that you know if you just looked at league of legends it's like hard to tell that they would be belonging to the same thing but at the same time there's a lot of like references and nods and it's clearly from a place of love and then halo season two comes along and it's just like kind of fascinating to think about it being like kind of a relic of a time when uh these adaptations were particularly embarrassed like ashamed yeah because this this adaptation more than honestly many adaptations feels like it's just like spite driven against the the thing it's adapting like you get the feeling of the people who made this who wrote this in particular actually really dislike halo and maybe even the people who like halo yeah and it's such a it's such a waste because the idea of like a super soldier in armor with an AI who's like a woman who like had banters with him but who's also like this super sophisticated AI it's such a brilliant concept and uh I mean it definitely worked for the games but here yeah it's the the stoic man uh and the you know the charismatic woman as a pair you know the going on in an alien war that gets massively turned on the tad by the discovery of an ancient alien construct that houses an ancient evil uh that is unleashed and throws everything into it's it's halo combat evolved is an awesome game it has a great campaign and like down to its core it's a really cool premise um yeah that if you watch the show you would be pretty lost on like seeing how it would be connected other than most surface level stuff possible basically was like the people who watch the show and then want to get into the games to check them out halo combat evolved is going to like shock them they'll be like what this is what it was and like yeah totally different completely different well I think that's probably enough uh preamble I think the the first plot point that has to be talked about is the most prominent part of the marketing yet as I think patrician men's earlier is uh startlingly short in terms of the amount of time that it actually lasts for which is the fall of reach um that was like a huge part of the marketing and um in a sense you could describe it as being the main plot of the first four episodes but the fall of reach itself takes place over the course of one episode of runtime like it's all condensed into one shitty episode yeah and john halo sleeps through like half of it too it does uh that's right in episode five they are leaving reach basically after the first 10 minutes and it's over reach has fallen it's done oh to remind everybody an entire uh video game was made dedicated to reach and it was called halo reach uh and it was halo three reach it was halo three read vengeance that's the one and a winging it was many hours of diversely seeing the different parts of reach that were getting destroyed not just this one city that do they ever say the name of this city reach city it's reach city it is called i am not memeing i'm not joking it's the street of reach in the town of reach the city of reach the reach place they call the planet reach reach street which one's that oh shit i'll send up a flare like last time i want to emphasize chat i'm not memeing i'm not being sarcastic it is called reach city that's what we don't have um do we have an earth city here is there a place called earth city maybe they would make one really far into the future when we've got like alien intergalactic relations or something they would have like a designated earth city or something oh like china town in yeah maybe maybe but you know obviously there's nothing like that in this the reach has absolutely no world building to the point where you don't even know how important it is you don't really know what the fuck's even going on or where how much of a significant loss for the the human side it is to lose reach you don't know is an earth city it's in st louis oh it would be no it's fine uh to find people one of the things as well as that in the first mission of halo reach you instantly you have like george has to like be the interpreter for them in the group because reach is like it's another planet of humans it has ethnic diversity in different cultures it's not just one yeah it's not just space it's just not it's not just space land there's actually like cultures there they have like uh hungarians there isn't it i think that's i forget the family that george talks to yeah i it's been a while i forget the specifics but you go when you go from there to the more like that rural area that they were in and then you go into the city and you see like the you see all the you know more city style stuff you know the vending machine with moab murders and stuff the architecture is different yeah uh like biomes as well because reach is a planet it's a planet yes the point is our worst planet it's a planet planet there's many different biomes halo reach depicts a broad military campaign spanning i want to say i think it's about two months in terms of like the total amount of time that passes going to a variety of different locations on like a big battle that's constantly changing and evolving and um and and the stakes are like going up and down and well no the stakes are high all the time but rather like the dynamics of the battle are constantly changing and then you compare that to the fall of reaches depicted in the show where it's like one episode of one battle in one city and then it's over it's done well yeah that was reach city part of the part of the battle of reaches john halo hanging out in like an antique shop so that they can show off all their oh my god you're right their 20th century items i had a little xbox there which uh when we were watching it with particularly like that's just like annoying um the idea that you would have like an original xbox and they're like look we're having fun it's like a game that you remember and you're like fuck no one remembers this game no one remembers this game no one's played this game oh it's like someone punching you over again then they hand you a chocolate bar you're like what are you doing you like chocolate don't you like are you mocking me yeah well yeah because that's an emphasize as well as that um even though the fall of reach has an episode dedicated to it there are like significant portions of time that are dedicated to weird non sequiturs i'm not even talking because one of the things i really enjoy about my favorite moments in reach are generally the quiet moments like uh the scene where noble six is sitting in the uh the the falcon like yeah the falcon the yeah hornets were in the falcon that's right it's falcon in reach yeah new alexandria as the city is burning in the background like at night time as he's about to like link back up and talk to carter and then go on his mission just silently looking over the destruction of this city but like still heading into the battle anyway to try and save as many people as he can it's like a particularly powerful moment or um after cat dies and they step out into the ruins of uh new alexandria after it's been glossed or uh you know like the the ending of the game of him standing uh at the uh at the shipyard as all of the covenant are about to close in on him like a lot of the quiet moments in the midst of this massive military campaign are particularly memorable but the quiet moments in episode the music serves it well as uh two a lot of good music i love the soundtrack um the soundtrack and the show is really lame by the way but i forgot this plot point that the reach people didn't know they were being invaded and the characters are like trying to tell them that there's an invasion going on and john halo the covenant are known for their subtlety that i i guess uh that's a the the the idea with all of that being that um there are quiet moments in this episode but they're like weird like a weird distraction waste time where um they're standing on like a bridge ready to and they by the way they call it like that they're doing thermopoly because the riders are really clever they're Spartans so it's like thermopoly you get it um they're like standing on a bridge and they're about to fight a bunch of elites that are like charging down there and and there's all this gunfire and it just hard cuts to keys halsey and soren standing in an elevator having like a little awkward conversation with each other it's insane i i don't understand like the rationale behind these weird cuts um yeah oh this one's a you've got to talk about this one that you're showing on screen i saw someone in chat mentioned it's like so any reference to noble team is like all right be thankful that there is god no there's yeah references to places from halo reach visit grad station and sword base but that's about oh yeah so base was just a narrow dot concrete whole that's because that's because they apparently shitty slimy concrete yeah box in this setting they didn't start the spartan three program until after the fall of reach that's the tv show lore error in mind patrician is less than that the spartan three program hinges on the necessary destruction of reach and the spartan twos as orchestrated by ony so there can't be a noble team because the spartan threes don't exist in the show's continuity yet i feel like i just threw that out there i would be like wait what do you mean like they deliberately necessarily sabotage the defense of reach it's just like any yeah you know it happens in military you have to make sacrifices get rid of reach and you can get some spartan threes or something that makes sense you need to take your medicine what are you talking about this is madness the briefest way to summarize it so that everybody has a general understanding what's happening is john halo concludes after the big battle he has in episode one on this planet called sanctuary that the modus operandi of the covenant is go to a place take down a comms relay invade uh and that they were doing practice to prepare for reach and then there's a big subplot about cobalt team having gone missing on some mission the logistics of it don't make any sense at all but long story short is they got killed by the covenant ony now knows that the covenant is on reach only in our prominent players in this season and they basically conclude they have a plan in place and their plan is to abandon reach not tell any of the civilians that reach is about to be invaded not tell huge portions of the unsc that they're about to be invaded to take some of their assets off world including the spartan armor so that not the spartans not the spartans because that is part of their plan is that reach will fall uh john halo and the spartans will all die so that they can recruit people into the spartan three program for a hail mary throw thousands of people uh at the problem mission of just throwing these under trained under equipped spartan threes that are basically worse than od sts on a hail mary mission to destroy the covenant and find halo that's the worst than the guy you bumped into on the street earlier today whoever that was these guys are worse than that guy they suck like it's it's it's to say that they abandon reach is actually putting it lightly they were actively sort of aiming for its total destruction yeah a plan for it to be destroyed rags on that note reach reach was an inside job if they hired that random guy on the street and the random guy off the street said okay first things first i guess i'll play the game and they all look at him like the fuck is wrong with you what this guy is crazy you okay bud he's like oh sorry i didn't realize it it it is truly unhinged like the way that the fall of reach like the idea that essentially a huge part of why it happened is because the unse and oni looked at reach and were like yeah this is acceptable loss we can we can we can deal with not only can we accept losing this but it's going to be beneficial for us creating the spartan three program that not only do we lose reach and all of the civilians and much of the military that we've left behind on there but also necessarily the spartans uh who up until this point have widely been regarded as the most valuable asset that the unse has oh and another aspect of their plan as well is leaving cortana behind so that she can be captured by the covenant so that she can relay information to the unse so that they can find halo the only reason that that's able to happen is because she builds enough trust with mckay to be able to leverage a covenant ships communication abilities to communicate with them on onyx and she finds the location of halo because when mackie touches the keystone it transports her consciousness to halo with john halo and she is able to use her being there to triangulate halo's position in the stars so that they can find it this was after the miracle of mackie convincing the arbiter to not continue flying to high charities so cortana was almost at just captured basically uh yeah absolutely now we can we can get into the 1768 issues that arise as a result of that plan for instance you might think well if you're familiar with the source material please say reality anything if you're familiar with the laws of logic and human reason then you might think wait i thought that having an ai fall into the hands of the covenant is like basically we lose the war right because then they'll find out the location of earth and all of our planets or assets things of that nature so the idea of us engineering specifically the idea that this one hyper advanced super smart ai is basically given over to the enemy that that's obviously profoundly retarded that's that's biblically accurate retardation there's no way that we would do that right well you'd be wrong of course oh you might also think well this is this is an alien civilization that in terms of technology is way ahead of our own so the the the sheer hubris that you must have to think that oh no no no we'll give them a piece of our technology they won't figure it out they don't know how it works well we'll out technologicalize the this is hyper advanced alien civilization that's trying to destroy us right the the element of the flaw of any plan is that you assume you know more than your enemy does i was like man you are putting a lot of eggs into this ridiculously misshapen basket but that'll help them get to get to halo that they know is going to be halo i've heard that word i i i feel on that in terms of like fighting halo it's what this is a good example of not only the writers like ignoring what came before but like the writers actually forgetting major plot points from the first season um something that happens in season one is that uh john halo he holds onto the keystone he does a big flume face and he and mackey get transported like their consciousness gets projected to halo that's the way that they describe it in season two is that their consciousness is projected there um and so they're standing you know on a projection halo looking around uh but but like that as a piece of information doesn't help them uh in their view they need the two keystones together uh there's like a smaller one and a bigger one um and at this point the covenant has one and humanity has one but if you bring those two together it will reveal a map of halo like to where how you can find it among other things that's how you're going to find halo with the map but in season two tana says well no if you get transported there your consciousness i can figure it out by looking at the stars as like well wait a minute in season one you were in mass john halo's brain when he got projected there so you know where halo is because you got projected there or like at the very least the information will be as uh translatable to you because you were in his brain and you're not in mackey's brain which raises a question of how could you figure out where halo was in mackey whose brain you're not in uh was transported to halo you'd have no information so it's like a two-fold problem they've forgotten that this actually breaks season one it means that they had already found the location of halo and should already be on their way there but at the same time she can't get that information now think of the writers were in this call they would be like what are you talking about what's halo events like i don't follow mackey who is that what is halo no i i seriously i don't think they realize what they've done they've they've like created a massive breach in the first season while the logic that is presented in the second season doesn't even make any sense on its face um it's insane but but it's necessary without this information that don't get to halo which means that the basically the final episodes of season two and all of season three if it ever happens uh can't like if it relies on insane uh plot holes just outright plot holes completely to the core so correct me if i'm wrong like the actual main plan of indian ladies not to actually get the halos to use a little spike and so get everybody all grouped together and then you know get everybody blown up they don't care about the halo or she doesn't care about the halo she just cares about blowing everybody up it's um i think the way they're presenting it is uh she sees like using military tactics she has a contingency plan and the the idea is with contingency and john halo can get to halo then that's cool but if he can't or anything else goes wrong that she has a contingency which to help people understand when we're talking about spartan threes basically the plan that only has for the spartan threes the thing that they were willing to hedge reach not well just allow reach and all of the spartans the original spartans to die for uh was that she would just throw spartan threes at a big covenant fleet in like world war one wave tactics throw them on hope that they can get aboard a covenant ship hope that they can fight their way to the bridge of a covenant ship and plant a weapon on the bridge that will create like a massive explosion that will wipe out everything within that solar system but the ships are very powerful also to maybe you know hopefully get to the halo with john who was intended to die in her original plan because they're yeah because in this show they are convinced that halo is a weapon that they could use against the covenant and they think this because nothing no there was nothing to conclude this it's actually no references i like there are none the only references in the video games that we uh adapting very unfaithfully we eventually discover that find that out yeah they remember they don't have any reason to believe they can even get to the halo without the person that they intentionally try to kill they take something from the game that you don't even start knowing that has to be discovered by kortana essentially how did they discover in the game did kortana find it out from she learned it from being in the assault on the control room while john had his flood adventure for two levels no no no what what intercepted covenant communications talking about it in truth in truth and reconciliation uh she finds out like through covenant communications that they believe that it's very powerful and from that starts a great journey right and that has i think we just assume this has to be bad we have to stop them well well what it is is that um they they do conclude that it's a weapon but they conclude it's a weapon that can be used against the covenant that it can be used like discriminately and then when kortana gets put into the control room then it's like okay flood flood you got a flood deal with that right now and i'll deal with that it's a weapon that kills not the flood but and and you know master chief's conclusion that it's a weapon that can help them is fueled by guilty spark basically saying yeah we can use we can use halo to like stop the flood uh and it's like okay cool and then they find out oh kills sentient life uh hmm okay that's not good um but but you know you talk about the nature of like pulling things from adaptations but like changing everything to make it weird bear in mind what is the twist of halo it's like well you can point to a few things uh the flood is obviously a pretty big twist but i think the bigger twist is that halo is a weapon that you can't use um it's it's the mission is called gun pointed at the head of the universe it's like halo is a weapon but its use entails your destruction that means that halo is really bad as like a thing that exists in the world it's just this like continual potential danger uh and it's something that continues to be a problem throughout all of the games and it's like a really cool chekov's gun that finally in halo three is like the one time that it can actually be used in a way that's gonna that's gonna be beneficial um it's really bad and that's like a cool idea as a twist but in the show throughout season one and two they've built up a lot of like almost like mystical space magic like fanfare for the idea that i'll say magic ringy we'll have to start talking about fucking magic okay uh the magic that's going on screen right now if we want to space out the stupid we should mention the blind i'm very ready to talk about that using using the grenade launcher to kill a wraith just uh quickly wrap up this thought before we can talk about blind man yeah um the point would be that um in the show you would be left to conclude that there's like a grand prophecy that's leading uh john halo to go to halo and it's like well think about it if they actually adapt that halo is a weapon that kills uh sentient life it's like okay so we are to conclude that the forerunners deliberately created a set of events that would lead to john halo coming to halo to use a weapon that would kill himself and everybody doesn't doesn't make sense does it it's like that's doesn't follow that's really weird um that doesn't seem to comport with the established lore at all well this reminds me actually of a patrician line um from i believe it was your skyrim part is it part one i think you were talking about the college of winterhold yes and you were saying that um you had a side about a good writing doesn't entail you just claiming that a group or civilization is smart that's not enough you have to actually show them doing smart things to convince me that they're a smart faction yes and this show does not do a good job at convincing me that really anyone's smart anywhere in the universe it's basically like star wars the star wars galaxy where everyone's a moron we were rooting for team flood and i was rooting for team flood yes by the end of the show we were unironically team flood why i was yeah team halo turn it on activate it wipe the galaxy let evolution give us another try we'll see what happens and re-roll the dice on it at least until they pulled there the flood is female with kwan in season three um yeah do you want to talk about blind man and his grenade launcher well yeah so like in the previous episode i forget what he's introduced but it's just a blind guy who i guess got injured in some previous fun yeah program and um because of the orc and so he like he just helps out in the armory i think and uh yeah we they go they go and have dinner with him and his husband and it's it's it's it's not a short well because it's like with was it the husband that had the magic healing powers yes okay so they introduced the magic yeah the super magic chiropractor or whatever yeah he he like magically touches her back and she like comes to some realization it's really funny i don't know how bad to describe it to make sure everyone understands how funny it is it is actually sold as if it's mysticism yeah no there is magic in this show like yeah well we see it in season one there were desert mystics in uh in a madrigal who like turned fire into water and sent kwan on a spirit journey so there is definitely magic in the halo world which is very weird and it is very weird there's two magic users and they're in a relationship with each other and the other one has a i i guess ultraherian or something he he can use a gun even though he's blind this this image i got it on repeat this is pretty much capturing how fucking this isn't even the only instance it's just a good example he is blind this is a blind man he cannot see that is a grenade launcher that he's holding that's the funny actually fighting covenant he just like here they even shoots the grenade at them and they'd blow up it's the most dangerous weapon you could give a blind person it is it's done for the sole specific sort of thing of like you know what everyone's doing their part and this is courageous this is just good on him he they even give him a huge sacrificial death uh the party's doing his friendly fire well that's the that's the thing it is so hilarious because that is the stupidest fucking thing you could ever do in the middle of the war is give your blind compatriot a fucking grenade launcher and to emphasize the way they handled this in the war was that those who failed the augmentation process and the spartan program were still highly valuable and used as like military commanders and strategic minds they they weren't just logistics and all the stuff that wins wars well yeah because this guy's he's basically just a personal trainer that's like what he is yeah so like even if he was blind they would still find a use for him in the unsc like so many chat just pointed out look at her disney face it's like oh my god true look at her she's like oh isn't he cute look at him go little blind man what the fuck reach reach is getting obliterated you're lying at your blind friend with the grenade launcher he's a pretty good shot for a blind guy isn't he you gotta show him blowing up the three elates yeah okay that'll be the come on you gotta some great visual effects as you can see in the fall of reach really good compositing really great animation uh it's it's really impressive actually most of them standpoint there's the one shot where they forgot to add uh muzzle flares on the guns oh the muzzle yeah it's just the light up on the barrel there are some where it's just like a simple png image of a muzzle flash it's unbelievable how bad it looks at times um and i mean i didn't talk about it before but there was a one take at the beginning of this episode where like john halo does hand to hand with an elite and there are like some shockingly bad transitions there's like one shot where i think it actually transitions like between visual effects vendors sorry to pause you because it's like a different model just let chat appreciate this that he is blind this is insane it's blind oh and it's one of the few times where the elites are actually using their guns that's interesting yeah most of this will show i'm planning that imagine imagine they're less imagine the cover was just a bit higher than he thought and it just hit the top of it they all blow up he's like oh fuck well sorry guys they're all dead well and the strap no coming off it anyways is coming back out yeah all right and you've got to show what is his demise so what happens is yes uh his husband is in the battle with him and he gets killed and uh when he finds out that he's died um blind man grabs him like the grenades off of his belt and just slowly walks towards a wraith and blows it up it's awful the wraith doesn't have a self preservation i guess no it's kind of like the rest of the covenant they're just dumb zombies they don't have the turret gun or to dissuade boarding and none of the people but the thing is you see plasma reverse gear imagine if one of those hit him before he got up to it look at him yeah that that wraith is some distance away and he's just kind of waddling his way a little bit like taking his time this image is so fucking offensive it's like what are you doing it's so stupid it's like no haven't you seen stories this is this is the courage moment this is standing up to you know what he should be doing if if this was a good scene he would be like their radio operator or something like something that he could contribute yeah yeah no yeah this is the stupid kind of like trying to be good because he's used to yeah it's it's so dumb to give him a grenade launcher it's so funny because you know the conversations on set were like it's not wonderful that you know you can overcome any kind of restriction any kind of disability that life puts on you you can overcome it there's nothing stopping you it's like no this is the the doctor who thing where you gave a person in a wheelchair a rocket launcher that shit is so fucking funny what are you doing yeah it's actually pretty good even if you have legs you should use the combat wheelchair because yeah the combat wheelchair is actually overpowered being to say yeah having a disability is typically like not good like it's a depowering you can use it to knock people down pretty easily and like traverse gaps and stuff because it can levitate across gaps it's really powerful but you have um if you read about it like Oracle or Professor X just these characters that are universally considered awesome in all these different IPs and nowadays like I gotta give anybody without legs a rocket launcher yeah what the fuck you do the people who made this show they have a problem getting people who can see to watch this show all right look at how bad the compositing is in all these shots it looks so fake so well talking about like the compositing and how the show looks and everything we'll just say it again this show should have been animated if you are going to make a tv show about Halo it needs to be animated so that you can animate all of the sci-fi alien battle stuff it needs to be animated half the shots make the background look so blurry that it was actually hard to look at yeah it's because we noticed that in Halsey's prison yep yes well actually the blind gay man is now dead I'm so sorry everybody it'll be in the same episode you want to show the uh the one take fight at the beginning of the episode in the uh under on the city it looks so bad um and it's by the way this is the scene that was being talked about earlier where there's a character called Perez who the actress like is distinctly better than most of the people in the show she's like actually quite expressive and emotive yes she should have been massive too yeah um yeah and uh so she's trying to warn people after her family had just been like killed by an explosion that they need to run away and John Halo's like nah we gotta go don't let him know and then he just fights about which is really good for him as a hero and he just fights this look at how bad this looks because they don't frame it like he's making a really tough decision like I know you want to tell them but like there's nothing we can do for him we have to go we have to get to the forward operating base we have to get to this whatever location like he like a switch is flicked on and he goes into like battle mode this is what we have to do if we want to have a chance at winning or surviving look at how bad these shots are look at how terrible the transition is look at how fake the elite looks in this fight looks awful I can't believe that well it's a good point about making it an animated show because like I mean if you're gonna do a halo show right half of it would be animated anyway like to do the whole alien side of it and then when whenever you have the Spartans in full armor they tend to animate all that anyway as well because it's like it's like the new spider-man marvel movies where like anytime he's in the full suit usually it's like CGI you can tell it's CGI it's all a little bit bouncy and stuff and yeah it is a great deal is lost when you know that you have to spend a lot of money on the alien half of the story which I mean let's be frank starting in halo too the arbiter's perspective in the alien side of the story is really big and it's prominent and you can't have like the halo story without it the idea of essentially having that entire segment of the halo story be super gimped because of time and money constraints is a bizarre limitation that you should just not accept it is something that gives halo such incredible flavor and uniqueness is that the covenant side and the arbiter's journey and story and how he meets with master chief it's like it's just a central component it's almost as necessary I would feel as master chief in Cortana's relationship is the whole coven civil war arbiter involvement it is there's a reason why it was such a huge element and a ballsy move quite frankly for them to do that in halo too and thank god they did I would add on in terms of the benefits of animation is you would completely avoid any of the bullshit about taking this helmet off if it was an animated show nobody would complain about it if there would be no motivation to do it everybody would just accept master chief being in every scene in his full armor just find another voice actor who's like six five and doesn't mind that you don't get to see his face you know those anime you could just have probably the voice actor we wouldn't even need to have the body and the voice be the same person right I would just like to see yeah like Darth Vader for example announcer could have a cameo it would be great that'd be fun wouldn't it yeah but why wouldn't you just make it a movie yeah I mean as soon as you bring in real actors you have to deal with their like ego because like people take on a role they want to be seen right it's just like I don't want to have a helmet on the whole time I want people to see me act you know a lot of like I don't really blame them to be honest I'm gonna say to balance that out a little bit they are every decision they make is for their career for somewhat right so they're like I'm not going to spend my time on this unless it can boost my own sort of role in life unless of course there's someone like Khalib and who was invested in like dread as a an IP and certainly I assume he was I'm actually looked into like him saying exactly why he kept the helmet on for the whole thing but I assume it's died to that which is wonderful and the irony of that is I think that boosted uh Khalib and his profile somewhat at least people in general that I speak to in these sort of circuits have a lot of respect for him for that as opposed to you know I sourced alone mostly throughout his performances dreaded by a by gum what a good actor he is because why would you why would you read the script for this show though and want your face attached to it I don't know where the helmet the entire time and just collect the paycheck on its face it's a really good opportunity um I would say like oh you get to be the lead in like a hundred million dollar like flagship uh television series adapting what you know was a popular video game series uh right it's they're looking at the IP right yeah well halo yeah sure script to shit whatever I get to be part of halo the halo tv show master chief is one of the top 20 most iconic video game characters of all time so even the actors know all about him probably later got to play the seventh most popular character do you know the number 21 in the list was blind gay grenade launcher he was in there he's icon gay grenade is iconic he's certainly iconic gay I think Pablo Shriver actually said that he didn't play the games before he got cost I'm pretty sure he said that I'm sure he does that thing of like I didn't want it to inform my performance I wanted it to be my own thing they always end up saying that because now they've had to be more repetitive there'll be things that fans will like fans will like aspects of the law yeah fans will fans will enjoy it uh that's funny to me because it's so not true I don't even know oh yeah if you like halo you will despise this show the more you love and are familiar with halo the more this show should you know take you off some of the topic that can come up especially now is uh someone that struck me was how much um the opposition was so zombie like we kind of referenced this a little bit earlier yeah but there's no tactics there's no uh style or yeah combat strategy there's just I walk towards you and I get shot down it's like what the hell this yeah like the elites are just mindless zombies when the the idea of the elites in the games is they are the intelligent ones they are the elites they're the they're the it's in the name warrior they use tactics and strategies they're like clever uh yeah they're they're from a warrior culture they stand in a way they have the the way that they are designed is like they're these armored humanoid esque creatures that stand for crazy people they command some of them are invisible they have shields sometimes they don't have shields don't exist uh and also you might have noticed in all of these battles where the grounds there there's the players well springy this should be this should be an entire segment where we talk about they knew to adapt some things but dot dot dot yes definitely definitely but the thing is is that they forego opportunities that make no sense to me not to do why would you not have in the fall of reach episode why is it just elites and jackals we see one we see we see one brood in episode five but like literally in the entire battle we see we see many many elites and then some jackals at the end no hunters no grunts no engineers we don't see any do we get one shot of grunts one either we got one episode for like a like how weird it was actually for about a second or two seconds we see a couple grunts they were kind of in the shadows like peering around a corner so 80 of the covenant army is elites with swords like bear in mind in the in the fall of reach we see one right that's it we don't see any banshees we don't see any revenants we don't see any um choppers like brood choppers we don't see lol no specters of course a really fun thing as well in episode eight uh when kai is with the spot in three she says have you ever fired a plasma rifle you never forget you first and they pick up a carbine in the needle yes um yeah pretty much alo is built just begging to be incorporated into like a um like a cinematic movie format because the game gives you this wide array of visually distinct not in terms of the weapons themselves but in the effects that they create when they're fired so you should have this you have this great essentially palette this whole color palette of different alien things that you can have in the game or have in your show because they're in the games but basically all of the the plasma effects that you see are just blue uh you have no plasma pistols which are the most common there's one there's one needle or shot that kills the spartan a single needle no no no we see dual wheels and dual wheels and dual wheels we have never seen a fuel rod cannon uh we've never seen um yeah we never did we see a carbine i think the first carbine was in episode eight of this season when she picked it up when she said you never forget firing oh yeah yeah that's the first time i think we see a covenant carbine um i don't think that we see yeah i don't think we see a plasma pistol this season maybe once i think there is one it's when chief picks up the sword and he's about to um cut that alien down or the elite down and somebody hits him with a plasma pistol oh yeah the elite shoots him with a plasma pistol right to his chest and he's okay mr mandibals mr mandibals chops his head off for that he's like no no do you want should we talk about is that before after keys uh oh well yeah because uh after it's he does this heroic sacrifice and should we talk about that yeah so after he's in this show you would forget that he doesn't show up much in this season in particular he's not a ship captain no he's an admiral that's right he's admiral he's he's an admiral and that means he gives orders to people on the ground and unlike the games here he's just some boring asshole idiot dummy he's in the game has a very distinct personality he's kind of gung-ho get it done leads the charge i'll do it he's hands-on he's very much like an old school you know leading the way kind of he's got a bit of a brazen personality and in this he's just kind he's just a guy he's just some dude he's around he's got a dull personality nothing noteworthy about him in anyway and they kill him and the other black guy in the same episode right at the end of black history month oh all the black guy you mean sergeant johnson no i mean the gay black albino with the grenade remember that sergeant johnson's not in this show uh for some reason oh my goodness yes for some reason ignore the screen that's not sergeant johnson so many people would assume it's so funny they were like obviously that's why would they do that he's like nope nope nope no it's not like sergeant johnson is arguably like the third most important character in the entire series arguably of the fan favorite of the games oh yeah i mean he's basically he is like the sort of vessel for the marine presence yeah he's the spirit of humanity he's the fighting spirit of humanity as like personified the last casualty of the halo trilogy the he's he's everybody loves him but for some reason he's not in this show uh i don't understand why yeah it's bizarre because they swapped keys to be a black guy but they didn't have sergeant johnson be a prominent character good that he's not in the show however it's confusing yeah it's confusing why is um that i it's i know that we were talking a bit about like how stupid it was that reaction that res had when a blind guy was shooting the grenade launcher but like there is a stunning lack of levity in both seasons of the show when the halo games have plenty of just like fun sort of campy moments throughout sergeant johnson is a big part of those fun campy moments and i wonder if that has anything it's but yeah like it's like army humor like they're above completely changing a character just fit the purpose of their score yeah they wouldn't do that they it's bizarre they don't invoke sergeant johnson's name just to get a few likes on twitter like exactly easy it's just like having a few grunts or a banshee flying around or just get you points but for some reason they just leave these on the table when they're just obvious safe easy things to get favor from people it's insane they probably just want to have the spot open for like season three or four in case they lose some other prominent cast member maybe and what that means is that you don't have time to like him even more and develop him and his relationship with chief and other marines and stuff or yeah i mean his relationship with the arbiter yeah but that's that's all gone if we don't we're doing that guys the arbiter in this show the reason why i call him mr mandibles is because he's not arbiter he's not like the arbiter from the show even by name like he's not from the game i mean he's just gonna leave a different guy a different back story obviously different back story which is arboreach that that is a thing from the games but they don't really talk about the fact that the arbiter is just a title it's not a person oh sure it's it's just for the sake of i guess clarity that even though arbiter is in this show he's not arbiter he's mr mandibles okay yeah um the thing with keys i guess we talked before about how when vannick had the scene with the birds it's like oh he's dead when our keys gave his big speech about like you know we'll fight and we're gonna we're gonna fight him and they they fucked with the wrong planet it's like ah you're done yeah it's up to you we started calling uh death flags as we saw them well yeah and that was a clear one when he's given this speech it's like ah you're done it's over which is crazy when you think about the amount of threads that are kind of unresolved it's something that season two forgets a big point in season one is all to do with the spot program and much is made of the fact that keys was a part of it but in this season you think that they had no grievances with him at all their best pals i trust him completely and that he's a great guy when again at the end of season one i think i think john halo actually said there will be like a reckoning but not today because they were often going on a mission it's just crazy how they've forgotten that he was very cold what happened with the spotans they're just like nah we're good now we need to pivot him to just being on good terms with him so that he can have a heroic sacrifice on good terms which is crazy when you think that the way to go would be to have it them be on bad terms but that he finally it like he comes through when it matters most right at the end as like a regular payoff but instead they're just nah they don't do that well it is a very confused plot line with the them knowing about reach being abandoned that ackerman had going on where he killed his dad ackerson like whatever his name is he doesn't matter no one cares ungo ungo blab we know it ungo blab but yeah that was what that was the grunt they didn't show that was the ungo blab we love him ungo blab's great he's doing his best all right he's willingly participates in the conspiracy but we're supposed to like care that he's yeah it's not supposed to care isn't it sad that he has to do everything with his dad you're like i don't fuck off way too much shit to think about with him the way that he's death plays out is um it's bizarre basically the up in a hangar evacuating civilians in a transport and then just a bunch of jackals climb up the wall and start attacking everybody yes um and while they're on the ship uh about to fly away they notice like oh a fuel thing is disconnected and then kids is like all right i'll go do that and he goes outside and he's fixing up a thing on a console and he just looks to the left and there's like 30 jackals just gawking at him they're just yeah they know he's the main character if we could um if we could draw this somehow uh and then correct me as i go because i might get some of this wrong like logistically it feels like when watching it you've got like the ship there's the big rectangle there then let's just say these are grunts oh sorry jackals and then it's like console here and maybe good guy good guy soldier and it's like you've got to press button here and so he's is in here and he's like all right then and with editing we seem to watch him do this right press button head back and then like sort of go oh jackals it's like how the fuck did this happen like what jackals are just so weird because i don't have been shocked to be like oh shit aliens that aren't elites with swords he should have actually been shocked in universe it's so weirdly edited they try to pretend he has no way of knowing jackals or anyone near him until he's pressed the button yeah well it's it's a persistent problem with them being so cheap with the locations that you just can't get a gauge on what's actually happening in any scene it's like the tactics and the strategy like all of the spatial understanding of what's going on and where like this is the this is the shot where he's like wait a minute jackals it's like what how did this happen what are y'all doing here what how did this surprise you just stare at him instead of just immediately shooting him they're like let's look at him let's just stare at him for a bit and they stare at him for a minute by the way it's about a minute that gives keys all the time he needs to sabotage the machine leak gas into the hangar and then say got a light as a Perez in the ship lights up the engines on the ship and blows up the hangar which doesn't blow up the ship some for some reason but it's um it's very sturdy it's evident that the people who made this like the editor's director as an actress this like i've seen this in movies before i've seen this is how you do it you do the guy says the cool line and then blows up i think we've nailed it yeah and that's at ease that's the end of keys he doesn't even get to go to halo he doesn't get to go to halo i repeat on that yeah get to halo in the show yeah he will not be turned into the grave mind he gets to go to heaven and get his own halo the death of everyone in this show is going to hell the death of keys here was disappointing not just in execution but uh we it's like we now know that we're not going to get that memorable beat from the first game like keys plays a role in one of the games i think most memorable moments where like it's at the point where chief and cortana have decided that they want to use the pillar of autumn as a bomb but in order to interact with the pillar of autumn they need the command chip that's in keys's head and so they go looking for keys on that covenant ship i can't remember which one of this but uh he suffers a terrible fate where he's sort of the flood sort of transforms his body into this this grotesque thing i think he actually might still be alive in agony is and uh right and chief just punches a hole in his head basically to pull the thing out so he can then go to the pearl of autumn and use it and uh that was such a cool sort of horrific moment and a cool moment for chief because it's just like fuck he definitely doesn't like doing this but he just he has to get that chip of any despite having his helmet on despite having his helmet on you can see the hesitation right yeah we've we've talked with him and we've met him throughout the game and again he has a personality he is a person he's a human being who's distinct from other human beings in a number of ways so having to do this to essentially someone you'd call sort of a friend certainly a friendly character that you like it makes it all the more difficult instead of just some asshole like he is in the show on xbox original xbox graphics and animation capacity on the original halo like come on you know yeah well the now this repeating by the way is just uh in relation to keys like what you have to think about this scene is they have several shots like this where the jackals are just awkwardly staring at him and i actually don't know what we're supposed to take away from it are they like dinosaurs they can only see him when he moves maybe that's what we're supposed to take away maybe because he's just a drastic park rules as far as i can say and he's just he's just another human yeah you know how like you can sometimes write it so that maybe he did something so impressive that the enemy team take a second to be like fucking hell nice but that makes sense for maybe elites i think it's as simple as um they wanted it to be going out in a blaze of glory rather than being swarmed by a bunch of jackals and like chopped to bits because what should have happened of course is he maybe is able to get to the console and press the button probably not and then just takes a few shots and then and then falls over one of them stabs him or something just like yep that was all good and he's dead now they should have had him turn on the engines himself knowing that it'll blow up the hanger or something or like he's been shot a bunch of times but he's just barely able to reach over and pull the lever something like that you can think of a pretty cinematic he's released all that awkward they just want to the air and then he could pull out a gun and be like hey or he throws a cigar he's got the cigar he's got a pipe and he throws that lit cigar onto the floor where it ignites everything and blows up the hanger that's and the lit cigars flips in slow motion through the area that's right like in team america like the cigarette yeah they should have done that and by the way this isn't the only really awkward weird death oh yeah you got another one more this episode oh yeah there's a third black guy that dies in this episode it's it comes at you fast this one so oh by the way and it's worth mentioning as well that for some reason when they close some blast doors blast doors don't work in the show no this is the second instance where a blast door does not absorb a blast and in fact blows the people behind the door flying look at that what kind of blast door is that yeah they don't make them like they used to no more time it's made out of something it's so funny because like there's so much to talk about in this episode but like there's other things and other episodes to talk about so who we just got to hit well we could just hit quickly uh when does keys' door to discover and react to the fact that he has died uh episode seven because we do not see moranda until episode six and it's maybe her fifth scene where they actually address the fact that keys died and i'm what i'm under what circumstances with halsey who is her mother um that's like the first time that they have a conversation it's after we've gotten a bunch of plot exposition really really weird choice weird choice not necessary at all by the way you could easily cut away to her discovering the information at any point this scene uh series it's like luke they don't need to show the reaction to the death of a loved one because we we know how she we know how it goes we know how it goes vanik is uh he's next very quickly like it's just funny to think about like how how much plot armor there is in this entire episode remember the spawns they're very competent super soldiers but like without their armor they're very vulnerable to just like one plasma round or a plasma pistol shot to the chat sorry exactly in case anyone's misunderstanding because someone just said like episode seven it's like yeah the reason that's insane is because she should have found out almost straight away where's my father i heard about what happened to reach where's my father did he make it out yeah yes or like she's already accepted that he died she knew that he was gonna die there she's high ranking let's not gloss over that information passes through all different places pretty quickly it's uh typical i'm not gonna say everyone does but typically you care about family members i know this show may not be aware of that to be fair but still that's why you know especially because in plot reach this fall is supposed to be this high profile thing so yeah well yeah and keys dying would have been that that would have gone through everyone that would have been like very public information apparently had heard about it so we don't even get to see her original reaction we missed the original reaction and get a more subdued limited reaction based on a smaller amount of information later on it's crazy that they would skip over that one it's just easy drama that's like that's what they want for the show is they want their stupid human drama and this is one element where they can really like do that in a way that actually god forbid it makes free level of sense and they don't do it it is free they don't feel free but so would dies cash in all the family members reacting this just when you're allowed to do easy but instead which which speaking of like not caching easy checks that next step is really weird really really really weirdly played out in a way that's like you miss the obvious way to do it basically like the way that it begins is you can see there's a big battle going on with the remaining Spartans and whoever's left all of the all of the no-name marines get killed uh by the time this battle ends but all there's only like one name marine in this show and it's Ruiz right i don't think it was basically we just talked quick about this like it's just it's just how you do cinema right if so if it's a lack of less pretentious word like chief grabbed an energy sword handle like oh fuck turns it on oh here we go him and the avatar they've both got their swords what's gonna happen it's like we're all prepped you know you can even nitpick and be like wow no one else is going to interact on either side of this fight but you know this is the kind of thing that you're like yeah motto we motto we're ready for this let's go what happens but it's this you can just fight easily by the elites like honor warrior culture whereas like oh there's a 1v1 going down let them do their thing what was that i wanted to see the sword fight but you see because you don't have patience they're gonna have their sword fight for real in yeah they're gonna have to fight later we gotta go we gotta go to north we gotta go to north texas for an entire episode oh and people say it's so he's dead no of course not he's fine no he's fine someone else this funny happens getting getting shot in the chest with a plasma weapon is not fatal okay that's just a tickle just a little tickle it's not like super heated you know plasma look at that look at how goofy that is he's like oh whoops the guy in the head off of an elite in the middle of this fight it's so funny and that's the arbiter that that that's a guy who's in trouble for being a heretic and having to redeem himself this doesn't make it's not a good luck not a great luck i didn't mind this too much i know because he's just so badly wants to get the kill for himself but it is it's a normal payoff and loads of stories but it doesn't work here unfortunately i kind of disagree because it's not set up at all yeah they don't set up anything about the zealots or the arbiters or why they insist on this honor culture they just act like zombies so yeah they're all zombies it's us bringing our existing knowledge about the series and when you if you look at it it's just a show there's no pay off there was a reference to this is something that he needs to do to get redemption we'll talk about that later but the more relevant part of this point is that he's lived look at him he's about to chop john halo's head off he's about to do it while he's down on the ground and the only reason that john halo survives is right before the sword falls on his head mckay says no don't do it and it's such a it's such a moment of like no she's a lie and this is the second time yeah but like yes i thought there were envisions or did they explicitly i guess no they showed her at sword base oh yeah the end of episode two i think don't forget that scene where the marines just walk off and get killed in the dark anyone remember batteries for their flashlights nope okay just walk into the door anyone remember the batteries for the rain solid base lights nope how come sword base is so dark and dark and concrete sword base is lit like dead space all right now you will well what's what's being guarded down there is both it's both cortana and the keystone in sword base it's one of the keystones and in in uh the only facility at uh i got the keystone is just behind the door that an elite can just like pull open he just pulls it open with his hands he just pulls it open yeah and it was guarded by four i like i don't want to call him marines but i guess they are in the show who are so incredibly stupid that they wander off like person by person into the darkness to get all right by an elite now team two advanced 10 feet and get murdered yeah good job team two no sir i'm not obeying that order of suicide uh but all right i guess uh scribe vanix final stand well so but before that it's just think about how lucky john hilo is if mckay had shut up like a second later he's dead it's over for him um and then the whole thing about unlucky we are yeah okay so i missed that the first time so he shoots arbiter in the chest with a needle the arbiter pulls it out and then stabs him in the chest with a needle and that kills him and the needle has a conveniently prolonged fuse what happens is um yeah like while while arbiter's they're like stunned and everybody's stunned vanik grabs a needle and shoots it at uh not uh mr mandibles and uh it doesn't really work and then yeah mr mandibles grabs the needle jams why does the only one vanik only one actually hits he shoots a few but they'll burn us off oh okay that's not very characteristic wow the elite armor works in this scene that's convenient yeah he's the only one who's got working elite armor everybody else then i get it and then even though the arbiter armor was like intentionally shitty and like lower tech than what other elites had he just jams it in there look at him he's just jams and vanik just kind of like watches and leaves it in gives up straight away he's like well that's it for me shitty spartan and then uh and then he blows up and that's it for him that's the face of can you believe this shit look at him that's it for him that's vatic done the only he's like he's the one i like the most out of the mod silver team so this was really lame ironically the one that is characterized the least as well is the most likable yeah interesting interesting he likes birds which is cool that's birds yeah you know i like about the most about this is low-key dramatic music begins playing and by the way do you remember they did the uh the typical story thing of you know mass she's about to die oh my god and then it cuts to was it riz who's like no she didn't do anything throughout this whole fucking sequence for both of them nearly died yeah she can't do anything she's just watching the both and going no shot at mr mandibles and they could have shot at mckay they could have easily shot at mckay so killed and that would have been wonderful but oh well you could have been great but instead they will just decide nah and and oh by the way this is like a weird there's like a one of the pigeons that he was talking to earlier was like flying above his head what are the pigeons he was talking to it's like oh did you die bud oh i lived bitch like this kind of blader on an ass but terrible like i've seen him this pigeon flying above him like look at me and i'm going to heaven just like uh it's it's funny it's really funny someone in a super chat referenced this fight so i'm gonna play in the background now we talk more because it's i'm allowed to play it fully without even protection yeah to bear in mind episode four or five we've skipped a lot of both boring stuff and it's like super questionable stuff from the first episode there were a couple scenes and i think it was three that we actually said were like passable as as far as things go and they all involved kai well it's it's it's um an arkison arkison had it like if you asked me what's the best scene and remember the best doesn't mean it's like amazing or anything it's probably the scene with his dad that's probably the best scene in the show it's like got good performances it's uh got subtext um it's building aspects of like character and theme not very well but it does it kind of okay and that was an episode uh three and to emphasize with this particular fight though by the fact that he gets like flash cloning his sister and having to die over and over and over and over that's the problem there's no I thought that was a little psychopathic that's the problem that there's no scene you can point to where there isn't some aspect of it that's like yeah but like the plot or yeah but this other element kind of seeps in yeah halo wars at least establishes why they're insist on fighting in melee something the halo tv show doesn't really do no they just loves getting them in close quarters combat they love it they love close quarters they don't like range yeah there's no the the combined arms element of you have all these different covenant that have different pieces of equipment and tactics that not just they don't just make them visually distinctive on a battlefield so that you can know what to do and you know a very small amount of time but you have like the plasma pistol shoot green the kneeler shoot purple needles that you know fly around a little kind of slowly you have the plasma rifles they shoot the blue ones you got the green streaks for the covenant carbines you've got the big green ones for the um the big green ones for the the fuel rod guns then you have all the vehicles you have all this you have all this stuff and it goes completely unused so that you can just turn them into this mindless sword wielding blah we're gonna run it to you and stab you like it's a game of infection on a galactic scale it's really awkward and it makes them it makes them seem stupid you know and you don't want to make your bad guy seem really stupid and incompetent for a number of reasons obviously halo fans aren't gonna like it but just from a like a storytelling perspective don't you want to actually convince me that humans are at risk of being wiped out by this incredibly capable intelligent future you know alien civilization because i don't believe it i think the only reason the humans don't mop the floor with them is because they're equally as retarded as the covenant are well yeah the unse is staggeringly incompetent throughout both seasons just like so many terrible i mean it's it's something like the odd abandoning reach like aside from the like unconscionably vile aspects of like abandoning an entire planet to just be destroyed doesn't even like make sense tactically to like lose so many uh like unse personnel and assets and have them be destroyed when they're going to have a subsequent space battle with a massive fleet it's like man seems like if you just localize the entire fleet around reach you might have actually stood a chance but instead they decided to pull the whole fleet away allow reach to fall to then have a space battle later later with uh fewer people able to participate in it because the unse and oni are insane they are insane yes it's evil without the intelligence that should go along with it oni's just evil in the games they were like conniving and clever and scheming but they ultimately wanted humanity to win right um they were like the the secret you know the the the secret kooky guys who are like working behind the scenes to do stuff but they were still like the good guys sort of but uh in this they're just like the evil mustache twirling weirdos oni are more prevalent as antagonists throughout the season than the covenant they're more prevalent in the mind of john halo when he at vanx funeral he basically says i'm gonna go after oni i'm gonna get him and when he talks to kai and she says well the covenant destroyed reach he like pivots to the idea that oni is like as or more response which i guess is funny because they are in this story very responsible for it but like even from his pov like that's it's weird that like so much emphasis in place on oni when in the face of a massive existential war like surely everybody should ultimately be on the same side but it's like they're not though they're like very antagonistic to what like they're more prominent as antagonists it's really weird choice on the part of the writers to make that happen in the game we were able to get the humans and the elites to work together against the covenant and in this we can't get the humans to cooperate with each other john halo uh grievously wounds many humans in season two he fights a lot oh yeah yeah he should be a total second he probably killed more section on master chief's insanity oh i mean yeah we'll be talking about the characters like greater capacity give a bit of like an addition to why i just played that scene from halo was i actually quite like it i don't think it's great but i think it's fun in terms of all right but it was neat how a battle has a back and forth like the counters to each other's moves is kind of the main thing i would go for we haven't gotten the ultimate uh master chief's versus good old mr mandibles just yet we'll talk about that at the end of the season but this as a sort of first round where he just got shot it's so fucking crap like it's uh yep and i'm just vulnerable without his armor and that teaches him that teaches him that he is a different person than the master chief that's right and that's what we learn over the course of many many episodes it's very beautiful and you guys just don't get it you're right i don't fucking get it someone explained to me this madness because i actually don't understand i will say it is pretty funny to think about how much we can talk about all of this when in the first half of the season a good amount of time is dedicated to the ripoff expanse subplot oh my god it is it is you some of you might be and we apologize it wasn't our intention some of you might be misled by some of the footage we've been playing where there's action and shooting and blind people blowing up rays and you might be thinking oh what an action what an action packed what an adventurous we've we've gone through about 40 percent of the action so that's based yeah unironically this is about half of the action in the uh in the whole season the vast majority of the crap in this terrible tv show is awful human expanse drama so sorry just want to yeah it's uh it's it's prominent in the first three episodes there is i want to say like at least 30 percent of the time is dedicated to sarin and his wife and like quine and their story line that is completely disconnected from the main plot of the show completely disconnected it's it's dealing with like the squabbles of people on a space station called the rubble that we saw in season one that actually like has no connection to what's going on in the broader human covenant war and it's mainly cringe you gotta you gotta show the scene of the woman with the top it's mainly in episode one it's the first scene on the rubble where they introduce like the plot of sarin looking for halsey and there's like a woman with a top hat who like punches a dude and then gets on top of him and rides him like he's a donkey or something oh wait is that season one that's the first episode season two season two man oh i'm close i think yeah yeah you're getting a brain blow it's like the slave market on the asteroid yeah that's right because uh because you know halo this is a thing yeah this is something that exists in the setting it's completely butchered what they're how they're doing it and uh there it is so it's just pointless like but why it's that it's that ride rattles clip from one of the how the google movies but why but why that it's just embarrassing welcome to halo you're like hey that's good man this is one of my favorite the this is one of my favorite levels yeah it's um it really like i because i i don't want to talk about it for too long but like it seriously is like not a small part of uh this season there's this expanse subplot dealing with like sarin being betrayed by his crew and then his wife who is a very bizarre actress weird weird there's some very weird her sanity is child looks weird and she has weird expressions and you gotta you gotta i know i know i'm just making you jump around but there's an episode two do you remember the part where she screams this is sarin ship at the crew it's a really cringe and i think you gotta play it for people to see you have to help me out you have any idea where that is i think that's in the it's in the first half of episode two it's uh it's it's in early scene in that episode where i think it's like it's about the same time that we see kwan like properly for the first time in her big little conversation where she yells at a big little conversation well do you remember she she yells at uh sarin's son who is clinging to the belief that his dad is okay after going missing and she just screams he's not coming back and it's like wow you're me aren't you yeah you're a jerk like it's it's so cringe like the whole sequence and everything to do with that subplot because do you remember do you remember like how they had the old-timey weapons as well they're not like futuristic weapons they're like pump action yeah what's the thing with the weather like you you know like in uh everyone wants to be firefly everyone wants to be firefly oh this whole chase you should show the clip where i don't even this thing i don't remember these parts as well as the others like psychara or wherever it is nothing happens in this whole scene what i remember of it is that everyone's looking around to capture kwan and then we this guy looks outside one of them is just in space like wait what i'm sure that's just what happens they don't show how that happens at all no they rely on not showing it because they have no idea either she did some sick close quarters combat moves and got him out there and then this one is like a ninja warrior now this guy who's looking now he gets stabbed in the head with the things she ripped out of her ear yeah she stabs him in the temple with a meat thermometer yeah and by the way just boom dead the only reason that kwan the only reason kwan and consequently the wife lira managed to find out that soren's been betrayed is because that guy she just stabbed just decided to tell her hey look all right soren got betrayed so give it up like that's how to do that oh wow yeah it's really it's really really really bad this whole this whole chasing was weird that there was a guy with like a sad since kree's parkour was guilty there was yeah he went over the railings and everything he chased her and this is jumping around was the other one that ended up in his face like 40 percent of the show i think he ended up in space the guy doing the sick parkour moves because the other guys that's good at parkour you say it so matter of fact it's done though this is all madness look at this shot right and it's like these two guys are looking for it then one of them we just see him looking around till he spots the other ones that ended up in space is so funny and i think they wanted us to be like oh she got him you're like how what could possibly have happened you know the parts i kept no either this is one of the parts i kept rewinding because i was just like did i miss something did i miss a shot where you know uh what's her name kwan like you shoved them into an airlock or something but then i slowly realized like oh no it's just shit like it's just it's just poorly put together and written yeah when outside why they didn't show it because they you can't you can't show well the thing is you say that but they show lots of scenes of kwan throwing people who are obviously on wires because she's a very small lady oh yes they do it's it's very much in the show um what's the the big uh the big ginger spartan ship her screaming uh riz or the other all these ladies actually both of them both of the female spartans are like you could they're tall they're pretty buff you like yeah i could believe they they could beat the shit out of someone they're tall they're strong they're clearly like they look the part kwan is this little twig lady and well perez is a very small lady perez is very skinny um i i guess because it's found my mind it was very distracting throughout the show because we're talking about um women here and i you know i don't want to be that guy um it's very distracting how uh female heavy the armed forces is in this uh show where it's like a military is it john hill is not going to invite men to his harem those ladies they it's like they can do better all right and there's not a single shower scene stash of troopers style there isn't it's i mean i mean like there's gotta be i mean they there there must be showers at some point yeah there are there's there's probably showers from in the military i would assume but it seems like the military is like bizarrely like half women and when you see it you can't unsee it because like on reach when it's like 75 when keys is giving a speech about yeah or his shitty speech about we're gonna defend reach and it shows all like the soldiers i'm like this is weird how many short little ladies are in the military there's like it's so bizarre when you see it they could make a point of it if like the the recruiting stock is just dried out from them losing so many men in the war but of course they're never going to make that point that like at the tail end of the war we would just be the women left right to me uh quan is like fetch they keep trying to make her happen and it's just not happening and it's they keep trying to make quan happen yeah we meant to do but they they killed the plot that she had in season one it's a pivot it completely in season two to like uh this isn't my life but i guess i'm yeah well the siren subplot for a bit in season two whenever quan shows up it's like they want the audience they expect the audience to be like oh shit it's quan they're fuck now quans gonna fuck some shit up just like nobody really cares she's a ninja warrior what happened is uh resolution of the subplot is basically they try to escape from the space station but they fail and then uh siren's wife gets captured and uh quan comes back and does like some assassins creed like ninja stuff and basically kills everybody with a little knife it's inconspicuously small knife yeah episode three that's episode three i think literally the pocket knife i have on me is bigger than the knife that she uses it's it's well it's very she can't fit a bigger knife in her hands she's too small it'd be too heavy yeah she needs a tiny thing for a little like a part where they were trying to be inconspicuous but she's wearing a big blonde wig the whole time that she could have taken off at any point that's right that was great it is weird started to keep wearing instead of changing her appearance more dramatically her weird wig matches her weird face so when she takes off the wig it's like well now you're now it's almost weirder you're less matching in an odd sort of way it's so weird that they have like lever action weapons in this show it's so weird because it's firefly expanse fire yeah it it it's just whatever the fucking the fucking prop master had that day i guess yeah it's like the starfield i i know it's not even it's not even fucking firefly because firefly did it all on purpose well that's what record point is i think yeah that's what i'm saying yeah okay there was a reason for it then but here it's just like it's just like spacey whatever the only reason that this exists is to perpetuate another subplot that allows soren and his wife to be prominent which is that their son gets abducted by the unsc to become a spartan which talk about the what are the odds of that that a former spartan who escaped his son then gets captured on a transport and gets recruited to become a spartan uh so that's like a thing that can occupy their time for the rest of the season was it ever implied that they picked his son because he would have had the same genes as dad had i don't i don't know that we get any i don't remember a reference for uh that i think i think what's in conclude was just bad luck okay yeah i know right quickly talk about this bizarre moment that happens with kwan more specific mother yeah there's a bizarre moment with kwan the one on screen rags are gonna be more specific than that so just just recognize what's happening here she's killed a bunch of people to free up blondie and she's got a knife in her right hand she's got blood on her face she's looking on him suddenly this girl is behind them she's one of the kidnapping people i don't know how she managed to evade kwan in this whole sequence but kwan immediately goes well i'm gonna get you and some weird movements happen where she looks it looks here it's like oh she's putting a knife to the girl's throat as like a threat i guess like no kwan has stabbed her you're like uh no i can if someone stabbed i can't see the knife you can see the trickery that they did that they they had to do something with the visual effects to make the knife kind of like reorient in a different way because it doesn't line up with the actual action that took place there but isn't isn't one of the yeah but oh yeah yeah the visual effects you see it like it clips into her it's like the games they added the clipping from the game oh yeah this is a game in the only time that happens when john hallow was fighting the elite in that one take his arm clips through the elites on and this way this was a particularly vile character too one that you're set up to want to watch get really murdered yes yes the other lady oh the other lady all right okay yeah i should have been more specific sorry i just can't remember what's really weird about this knife blunder is that isn't one of like the oldest most famous movie props in history the knife that when you press it the blade goes the fake blade goes into the handle and it looks like it's going into things so you have such a small knife you could have just built like a little bitty you got one of the little prop knives holding a gun right like this is just unless i'm missing something that just feels like a bad take and they need to do it again she's holding a gun kwan grabs the gun with her hand the other hand has a knife in it and they do the motion of i've stabbed you now but we can clearly see the knife is not in her even the girl is doing the motion of i've been stabbed oh no but then it's like and then kwan actually gets her with her knife they they prominently show her with that gun too like every scene that this woman is in she has that fucking leather action gun yeah so it's just like this is what what happened here and it's like they filmed in that everyone agreed like we're good they'll fix it in the dungeon they're like wait we're not good oh shit all right well you see how like when kwan's arm moves up the blade disappears so that can be reoriented in a way that actually makes the shot work yeah that is up to the actors just sell it just just just go and by the way you might be thinking wait so why is this plot happening it's like well the thing is is soren's crew sold him out because they cut a deal with some lady on the rubble to like make more money and then she can be in charge and that's like the plot and it's like huh what's that got to do with the fucking aliens uh what's that got to do with uh why do they care about who's in charge yeah like rubble if everybody's ever come up again humanity but there's there's never any of that aspect of everyone pooling together to unite to fight for the survival of the human race it's all like like oh i'm gonna be in charge of this shitty asteroid like no i want to be in charge and i'm like i don't care the aliens are coming guys this is like the game of thrones thing you could look down and answer a text message and look back up and be in a completely different show in this season it's just so all over the place yeah isn't it like to go from that to john halo stalking corporal pares to a house to yeah about the wise going to blade runner yeah the the cyber and then go into the strip we gotta get into that we gotta show it we gotta show john halo going to the escort the hologram escort lady who looks like cortana he doesn't just he doesn't just do that he's a regular of this strip club he's done it before he has a favorite one that she followed him to the elevator because she knew that's where he was going to talk to fake cortana about his feelings this episode one right yes i guess this is one i guess it's an accurate depiction of a soldier to show them going to their favorite strip club it's just like he goes there to talk to a hologram cortana fake cortana like i miss you cortana i don't know what it is but i'm sad that you're gone that's like what are we doing no wrong strip club no it's funny i was stuck on a repeat i kept trying to drag it i was like why is it taking me back to the fucking writing i completely forgot so guilty works um but yes this part was particularly fucking strange going to a strip club to see cortana i don't know that they understand their fan base whatsoever isn't that what you isn't that what you were thinking about when you were running through the library is i wonder what what master chief's favorites what do we do what's his favorite what's his fetish probably is this well good thing they adapted that internet this is the detail that we always wanted to see as halo fans if this isn't in the next game i am going to write an email to someone hi i uh i figured that if there's one before we like just dive into a big exhaustive discussion about the characters and motivations and everything the last like big subplot that seems like worth delving into is uh the flood because it is crazy it's actually crazy can we just play the scene well can you can you just highlight how much we'll be skipping over in terms of raw timeline now because we would just only about three now we're going to go in from four to five to six to seven kind of over to like seven eight right episode episode five is basically right after the fall of reach they just go hang out on like this barrow oh it's so bad mining planet planet north texas also fucking balloons yeah talk about the feelings for an hour and then riz we're tired she's like i'm done yeah hold up hold up i don't want to be remember the funeral scene hold up no no no no no no we're we're patrician we got it we got to talk about it you described north texas as both being halo and the crazy flat planet that they go to where nothing happens no i've described both of these is north texas no i described the the the bottle episode as being planet north texas you just you i think you've described halo as north texas too you didn't know it doesn't look like it um it's more like south dakota the point the point being those wastes it's it's the longest episode of the season and it's the biggest waste of time um there are like important things for like character well i say important they're important for us to talk about they're not that useful to the show they're actually actively detrimental to it um there's like character and theme stuff they want to do there but it's basically a complete waste of time that it's it's worse i would say that yeah i would say it's worse than a waste of time because of what they do with riz and like the messaging that they kind of use with her we can uh we can jump back into that when we uh like i got to yeah characters uh yeah like it seems like the flood would be they're like kind of the last remaining thing but by the way we're skipping all the way to the end of episode seven into episode eight to get to that there is a big time waste with the onyx like ony uh spartan three setup which again spartan threes and this aren't spartans they're basically like they're worse than odst because they've got less training um like odst have more training than the spartan threes they're just like marines that they pulled off of reach and just put in these suits that don't have any um shielding and aren't super strong and they just throw in them in these crazy missions that they're training in simulations for like maybe a week tops is how much training and they're um they're set to lose no matter what right yes that it's it's meant to be a suicide mission that they're not being told as a suicide mission it's very clearly signposting something that happened in the book ghost of onyx with none of the emotion that's tied to that do you remember the advice they give them of like we're training you with gunshots that come from nowhere because you'll never know what's going to happen when you're actually out there yes so it's an impossible to win simulation where it's just the gunshots are random how was it helpful that the gun so insanely stupid guns of an elite or a jackal or a grunt wouldn't that make a lot more sense yeah um that that that shoot was like annoying to watch but uh i will say i was probably one of the few it was kind of on board with bringing in the flood because it's slightly more exciting than the pure boredom of the badness i think i rather something fun than boring bad and i knew that like the flood coming in would be that and um some of that struck me pretty quickly and uh it wasn't something i hadn't heard but i also definitely saw it in anyone else here would totally recognize it feels very inspired by the last of us tv show zombies the uh the zombie yeah it's weird because uh remember like the flood in the games obviously not only was there a bit of variety in terms of what they look like because they consumed a lot of variety and then alike you had different forms and you had flood that would use weapons the flood were intelligent enough to have like coordinated strategies and use weapons against you whereas here they're just like people running at people and biting them uh it's really weird they're just zombies they're just weird zombies it's an awkward thing because at this level at this low level of infection this is actually how intelligent the flood are they don't really have a centralized intelligence yet but they do though because i'm the old lady it's all right fuck yes you can talk to kwan we meet an old lady and sit in episode like a shaman lady who walked into the covenant glancing the planet and tells john halo he's gonna die soon uh and talks about whether he has a soul and everything and then she talks to kwan a couple of times throughout the season and then she's like thanks you released us where the flood hi um it's really really really weird never mind i recant my statements even though in the games yes they would just be zombies at that point but the show knows better oh sure it's just the the they don't feel very um flood they feel like i said especially with the um the mouth opens and like flora type shit comes out it looks very uh well there's no in the section forms or carrier forms they don't develop into those they don't we don't see the spores sort of become the little things that oh should we aggressively bigger and bigger you should probably see how it spreads right so we it's done that's what we're gonna do so yeah well we gotta go a little bit further back so like basically through a bunch of bullshit kwan manages to open a door to a library on onyx like when i talk about the kind of bullshit i mean she like grabs some constellations and just haphazardly moves them around a big star map and then it opens a door that let's like Obi-Wan Kenobi star map for it it's it's like when in the Jedi temple when Obi-Wan Kenobi is looking for a planet and it's all around them and it spins around and she she really does like grab some of the little glowing dots that are supposed to represent planets or what the fuck and i actually know where they are is because there's a cave on the rubble where i don't know if she had drawn them or if she had found out this is it's it's madness it's like someone needs to grab you by the shoulders and shake you and say friggy wake up wake up for you it's all a bad dream i think there's slightly more to it and that she's like being she's connected to like the forerunners yes in some way yeah that's the idea but it's weird because it feels like they've retconned the history because in episode in season one you see one of her ancestors talking to a monitor and she's called a protector and it seems like there's something that's meant to be more positive but in this it's like oh no if she's a protector because she released the flood or something so i don't get what protector yeah protector release the flood here's the problem here's the big problem at this point change the minds based on the finale of season two i genuinely don't know how much of the new 343 shit is now fudged into the stuff that they're doing i think they might be setting up that faction they teased in halo infinite called the endless i think that might actually be the direction that they're going in and so there's yet more shit that's going to be really hard for us to predict because i don't know shit about any of that like that's an idea well neither does 343 they set up the endless but we have no sort of visual depiction of them or and i even an idea of what the fuck it is exactly like it's just supposed to be worse than the flood it's like well wasn't it that lady that's in halo infinite like alien lady yeah that's right yeah i don't yeah something like that the reason why is because i'm oh yeah 343 guilty spark shows up at the end of season finale by the way and this is the clearest indication that they were desperate they're like let's get let's get guilty spark alluding to things that happen in season three with john halo's cracked helmet that shows his eye because he's been through some shit and like and he's gonna tease that there's something down there waiting for him and it's like well it'd be weird for guilty spark to say that about the flood that'd be weird if he's like he gets introduced john halo to the grave mine that would be like fucking retarded but if it's like no it actually makes no sense and i wanted it's in the dark as well so it's like i don't see that it would be for run as either because you think he'd speak about them more positively it feels like it's in a place where it's like what the hell is he talking about i wanted to ask of the scene wasn't it the point that they needed cortana to decipher these star maps because like it was just too complicated for people to do but kwan just like moves in constellations around and figures it out chosen one yeah so she's as smart as cortana it's not about that is that the writers would be like yeah she has something in her gut that tells her exactly where to place the stars okay it works shut the fuck up is does that is that's like hereditary it's for us to do yes it is hereditary it's contagious her ancestors yeah her ancestors are part of an ancient protector lineage that will allow them to given that it's so many generations back shouldn't there be like millions of people with the gene at this point that lets them no move around in a constellation because the forerunners planned for kwan yes everything every bullshit thing that happens in the show it was faded it's prophecy so it won't kwan well why do i care john hill is immune to damage because he could flip the quarter five hundred times and every time forget that let's wrap up the flood as a subplot because basically the way that they get released is she mess around with the star map opens the door to a library they go inside and there's a forerunner lady just like they're on the ground holding a little like it's a little rectangular shaped object um and miranda grabs it and then there's a big earthquake that like destroys the lab and they escape and she brings it into the base like the only base on onyx does your question have a reason no all right carry on it just happens okay so she's just studying a look right you have to understand so she's in there and she's messing around and she's studying like a spore that she gets from inside the container and then another scientist's lady is like oh yeah hey how are you doing and then miranda's like you didn't touch that did you and she's like nope i didn't touch it she did she did touch she did touch the creepy bacteria with her hand yeah this is the humanity we're supposed to root for she is patient zero of the flood infestation that is about to destroy this onyx facility like it's uh it's crazy at this point that becoming part of team flood starting to look appealing yeah i was rooting for the single cell organism over human civilization at this point i really did wish i was joking but like she just touched it just touched it with her hand she just touched it and decided to like deep kiss everybody in the facility women's scientists the woman who works in a virology lab they show her like handshake someone as she's leaving somewhere and then they're like the camera hangs on it like you see this is how simple it is to spread if it's like shut the fuck up there's a there's a movie that famously did that right contagion so they called contagion yeah so i think they just they just want to and uh you remember in world war z it was like the chief vaccinologist or something accidentally purchased finger and got zombie in him and then turned everybody into zombies it's a kind of a cool ending i really want to watch the of the apes uh new movies the new set again especially the new one but the first one ends with the virus on like a pilot and it shows him get into the the plane and then it like zooms out into the city zooms out into the earth and it just shows really quickly how fast it all spreads with like really sort of spooky music and then it hits credits basically letting you know it's like everyone just died whereas here they play like this weird music while like this woman is getting progressively more unhinged and nobody seems to care like she's sweating and got black veins on her neck and everybody doesn't nobody cares i think it gets cartoony with this it's like it's like i'm just like are you okay sheila what are you doing over there hey sheila who works in the virology lab you look a little sick there and clap some on the back of the shoulder you're feeling okay you want some chicken soup sheila do you want me to lick your face i could look it right now after my coffee yeah that's and then and then she stabs a guy and then she gets locked up but it's already too late the flood is spreading um and then she gets like put in a she gets put like downstairs in a little uh prison that they've actually got like sarin's family and uh ackerson as well who we are he's a new character he's actually really like prominent in the plot but we'll talk about him later because it's too hard it's too hard to cover everything all at once um and then they're in prison oh yep they just put her in a jail cell it's not even like an airtight chamber you know like there's so many fucking problems obviously sick but uh why wasn't the container dealt with in like a little airtight chamber with like you know they're dealing with ices hope or something yeah this goes to the um like big red metal bars like an old timey jail yeah this in particular speaks to what we've kind of been alluding to which is that everyone in this universe is stupid humanity is too stupid to live well this like really this sold that idea to us like it's the real world example of them doing this looking at here you're not supposed to go wow you murdered that other scientist for reasons of you know like anger or jealousy or something typical that we can try in a court you're clearly not infected with something insane like yeah look at her you work in a virology lab they just brought in this ancient bacteria from like an alien cave and one of you's going nuts and like we know what zombies are all right we're human we know what zombies annoying yeah you're doing the thing you're a zombie i've seen the movies i've watched the films you're a zombie she's um listen zombies are dehumanizing please use the term infected person person of infection yes thank you the nature of like the way that a person of ejection there's a part where soren enters into this facility with kwan and they just encounter a bunch of frozen people like frozen doing inoculus tasks as well they're still yeah it's like that uh it's like okay it doesn't mean people from the hit movie frozen he means people who are frozen okay let it grow let it grow they just kind of they're very chill about it when it's like this is insane guys like when have you ever seen a bunch of people just standing still like in weird poses in a military base if i walk into a place and everyone's doing that i'm probably just gonna leave yeah because some weird shits going on well it makes you wonder it's like shouldn't it shouldn't soren and kwan be getting infected by flood spores yeah they're fine they're just breathing in but they're fine you know for a fact that the riots be like no we're not doing that the dexies they're like we're doing that yeah yeah that probably will because i'll forget um well the the the spread of this thing and the effect it has on people seems so ill thought out like it's just a mishmash of surface elements from a bunch of different like zombie properties yeah you know they're they're frozen still is it spores is it airborne is it skin contact like they apparently they burrow into the skin through like visible wounds like like like there's no clarity as to how it works so like a lot of attention is gone there well i think if you ask someone who didn't know anything about how and you're like uh they spread through spores it's like spores that's do they looks like they spread through bites or like the little parasites that leak out of one of them and then go into other people but not spores it has to yeah they're because actually someone just messaged me and reminded me of something from one of the books and the book the flood there is a part where master chief has an infection form like jump on him and it like cuts through his suit to like in like cuts into him um but it isn't able to infect him so it's not just it's not just that it's more than it's more than just they touch you they have to like actually infect you with something yeah well that the infection forms have these little tendrils right yeah it's a the apparent he says the canon explanation is getting a flood supercell in the bloodstream so only certain flood cells are able to infect you most of them are probably just the cells that keep the flood alive um and there are particular cells that will um infect you they're not interested in any but yeah all of their is they're excited to get to do zombies they don't really give a shit if it's accurate to the games well and for me it's like woohoo funny things so yeah it's desperate because of the flood is a it's a huge reveal for halo but it happens so quickly in the show it just happens to the point where we were almost like like what are we doing the flood just like that we just found them and now where it's just flood time as well as funny you said that because they'd be like well what do you mean we've been teasing it throughout all of season two and all the way into season one with kwan and we had it with the lady going like release us from our prison you gotta you gotta let me go when she speaks her into spirit vision but it's like you think about the actual cause and effect of how it plays out it's really really strange and it feels like it comes out of nowhere when i think the writers would be like no it didn't we've been setting it up all season but they did it so poorly that it actually does feel like it comes out of nowhere well because who gives a shit about kwan yeah exactly like the audience is probably fucking asleep during her sleep scenes when you tie it to kwan's storyline it makes it it's just that the cause and effect of how it relates to the actual human covenant war compared compared to an halo one where it's like the covenant are on halo and they've gone exploring and they found something deep in halo it's like oh well that's yeah straightforward it's simple but straightforward it makes sense logically that's what so what happened is think about the cause and effect for the flood in this show all the way back to season one bear with me here all right the the cause and effect is kwan is miraculously saved from death when a bunch of covenant soldiers attack her outpost by master chief john halo who also has super duper forerunner connection she goes on a big journey to save madrigal that then leads her to find going on a spirit quest where she sees her ancestors talking to a forerunner monitor in a in a well to then tell her you are a protector and that means something to then have to go fight for the independence of her planet it gets destroyed by the covenant and then she gets embroiled in the like in a turmoil of a space station which then thrusts her on a collision course with john halo again where she then finds herself going to onyx and she goes down into another well that happens to be there and then grabs a star map thing opens up a forerunner facility goes in there and then someone else picks up a flood spore and starts researching it and then the flood gets out that's retarded well you know it is accurate to the games if you think about the halo four plot line of the master chief being destined to go to the librarian which itself starts with just the cosmic coincidence of the prophet of regret stumbling over earth there is an i would say that the the books do a really good job at it as well but there is a really cool creepy element of the flood reveal and the halo games regarding your cortana and her you know what she says her expressions and things and then there's of course going into the swamp finding them yourself it's a really really lengthy that lengthy helmet camera recording cutscene yeah that gets helmet cams exist well that that payoff is totally fucked now i mean they've done yeah it's like they've they've spoiled the flood well they've i don't know spoils right they've done the flood reveal in the place where they shouldn't have like it should be the the flood should be appear in like when chief is in the belly of halo like it's cool in the game yeah you're trapped oh the ring it's just a cool mysterious thing let's get into the heart of it and then it's like oh shit the flood the most worst grossest thing ever you're already stuck on hey you can't leave in this show you could leave halo whenever you want you can call someone to pick you up yeah and you can leave you can just leave halo you can go so being stuck on halo you're already fighting this grim battle against the you know this alien force then you're like oh shit there are space zombies here too well fuck you know and the situation goes from bad to worse you know you think halo is going to be it and then it's like oh and now on top of it we can't even use halo and now i've got the monitor after me i've got guilty spark in this the scent like the monitors are coming to get me now it's like wow this is a disaster it's like a really cool high tent a high stakes thing whereas here it's all over the place because i've got all of these disparate subplots that they wanted to do that don't have very strong connections to each other or like a clear sort of central plot line i think it's a really good point that they revealed revealing the flood early kind of takes away from the um reveals that halo has because what can season three do now that it's been revealed that the flood exists and that there's might be some new shit yeah i mean whatever invent something right now that the flood and this has been revealed it's like what is the big scary thing at the heart of halo that 343 is getting at at the end of the show now and whatever it is yeah like whatever it is i don't really care now because you've already shown the flood the flood was meant to be the worst thing ever you know because like that's the whole one of the major angles of halo is the pandora's box story it's just like you know it's oh halo what's this you go you explore halo and it's like oh this terrible thing is inside it we got to get out of here and destroy it there's relatively very little setup for the flood in the game but it's done well because anything that gets cortana to panic and says you like you need to go like court like the covenant found something those the idiot those covenant fools what have they done you need to go right now and do this thing and then she leaves in a hurry like you're like oh shit what's happening like what's going on here with it alludes to some greater mystery but that's really kind of all you get and then you discover him yourself think about the nature of how it retextualizes the central conflict and then competitive the setups that they have here like i would draw your attention when john halo is on halo and he looks up and sees humanity coming to halo he describes that as a bad thing he thinks that is bad so that means that they will definitely continue to be more like unsc subplots of them being an antagonistic force in the show which means that even with the introduction of like the flood i don't think it's going to massively re contextualize the conflict it's just going to be oh that's like another subplot that will just sort of be running in the background while we have our other shit going on which by the way i want to draw more attention that isn't like crazy that like they've written the story to where john halo seeing humanity reach halo before the covenant make like it makes him unhappy especially when at this point he doesn't understand the true nature of what halo does and honestly they might they might change what halo does they might i mean that's the thing like it's it's such a massive like break from the games but we're there we've already done that they have to reveal it's not a weapon well it's really awkward because um you know the fact that they've turned when halo is the very first i mean aside from the pillar of autumn halo is the first thing you see in combat evolved instead turning halo into a big two season long mystery we've got to find out we are and and it's weird that it's a mystery of how to find it yet they're so resolute on what it actually is when they don't know anything about it they just conclude it's a weapon and it's made out of a variety of different sources like the reason why they think it's a weapon is because halsey just kind of thought it was um with no evidence at all the fact that they even know it exists is because they were doing a translation where they saw a sacred ring in the translation and that's how they even know what exists in the first place and then you've got like mckay who used to believe that it was the vehicle for the great journey she now believes it's a weapon that can be discriminately used and so does john halo and she wants to kill both the covenant and humanity with it she's she's done with everybody for some reason how she wants her wife she's in her edgy teenage phase and they think anybody would be like how the fuck is she even considering making that decision who even is this person you're like i know i know he's a crazy person who believes that she has the right to do all of these things and it's like that and that's where we find ourselves at the end of season two she's on the loose in halo and john halo is like on her tail but not really actively doing much to stop her meanwhile the flood has been released and is like oh and it's and halsey got uh floodfied but she's in like a cryo pod that just so happened to be in the in the place that miranda was working where she's trapped and now she's got to find a way to cure the flood which i bet you they'll figure out a way to just cure it instead of it being like a problem that sort of exists in a general sense and has to be confronted in a very specific way she'll just find like a pathogen or something that stops the flood that's probably what's gonna happen well yeah they absolutely have to do that to bring halsey back yep exactly which they will want to the fact that they put her in cryo instead of killing yeah the flood which doesn't that seem like there's something there that she gets consumed by the thing that she was obsessed with i don't know but instead now it's all good that'll be fine and that's like what a mess of subplots you know like what a tangled web of insanity that that is and like weaved into that is a whole bunch of these characters that um i have a question oh yeah it's just a the reason that it's a narrative mess is just so that they can rush to reference everything so that people on twitter can go oh my god it's onyx oh my god it's the flood oh my god it's fucking halo on breeze oh my god it's the arbiter they've done everything out of order so different yeah yeah purely for that reason yeah because they don't know if they're gonna get enough seasons to to naturally reach those points and earn it so they're just throwing shit at the wall hoping that to keep the ball rolling john halo's conversation with our guilty spark really felt like can we please have a season three please give us a season three please you want a season three there's a mystery what's gonna happen that's right think of it i hate his voice you know what's funny to me is they butchered it if you don't know anything about the games those scenes are just weird man like i know enough from vague references from you guys to be able to put some things together but if i'm being genuinely honest here it's like john is sitting in a dark room and there's a floating ball talking to him it's like the fuck am i supposed to make about this like do you understand how weird that is for someone who hasn't played any games at all yes it's like what what is happening why is he talking to a ball with a light on it why is this clearly framed in a way that's meant to make me go oh when i'm just sitting on what the fuck look at how i really don't like that his visor is shattered that feels like a huge problem you got to show it show the visor because like it's like how's how's he gonna get back off the ring without his helmet being airtight but then you know next season they're gonna pull something out of their ass where it's just like point a little laser beam at the helm and then boom it's fixed you know it'll be four nano bots or something four nano bots how are we gonna see his face it is funny if they're like yeah we're keeping his helmet on the whole season you're like really they have that adequate face of like why didn't they just make the visor capable of becoming more translucent like the odst visors yeah like you it can become a bit more trendy you could like press a button or function and it just sort of it it ungolds no it would be too expensive to make that prop this image man it's so gross it's like they've shoved an imposter in there you know like they've jammed him in there and look at him staring through this corpse that he has another skin walker how dare you sit where he didn't sit remember the brilliant line that he said in this scene the wonderful line you got to play it molly you got to play it for everybody to see he's talking about when he says I am halo or no john you are the flood they took my image and bent it to their own purposes oh yeah damn oh yeah I did share that on twitter it's too good not everybody uses twitter you got a show already here very poetic all right video I say people that's how you start your video I mean it's just funny how he says that and it's like yeah that's the show and you know master chief famously cared about his image he was an instagram influencer as a type of character yeah he was really you know clued into the propaganda and the posters and stuff you know oh my god yeah look at that I actually have to pay well um it's almost an indictment of the games itself because he's basically saying that like the master chief of the games is the image that he doesn't like right that's that's not the real john 117 I'm the real john halo well it is weird right it's almost like they're trying to create like a new storyline that supplants and I got to say it's really awkward to think about you think about a lot of the things that 343 was saying about like master chief and halo 4 and like the way that they talk about the character and in this show and the sponsors it's a little uncanny it's a little bit weird it's almost like this is the way that they would have wanted it to be from the very beginning but unfortunately halo already exists and has a storyline and characters that is difficult to get away from but if you could recreate it in an alternate timeline then you can create it where it's like ah yeah we're exploring who's the man behind the mask and you know he's discovering his humanity and all that shit that they were talking about in halo 4 I think the writers really engaged with the child soldier plot line of the books and they kind of wanted to explore that but they also knew that they had to include a bunch of references to things from the games well it's something we've talked about is that they knew to have banshees was funny that this season that feels like there was actually a lot less of just that recognizable iconography even though this was meant to be the pivot towards being more faithful but they knew to have like they knew to have the spines in armor that generally looks pretty good they knew to have like the props for the like assault rifle and the battle rifle and like the gravity hammer and they knew to have elites and grunts and jackals and banshees and and warthogs and stuff they knew to have all of those things because it's good for marketing you can put that in the trailer and people will be excited and happy to see that but I mean at the end of the day it's all to essentially cover for like the story that I actually want to tell oh yeah it's all meaningless fluff if the story isn't working and the characters aren't interesting like final boss fight by the way it's it's watching like somebody play with your action figures and they just a really perverted idea of the story that you've been telling with them and they're getting the names wrong it's like they're playing with transformers but they're using like gi joe names or something it's like that's not it that's this is this is jan 118 this is my action figure you're like reenacting the throne room scene and they have palpatine pick up Vader and toss him down the hole and you're like what why did you do they're like yay palpatine do you want to show uh the the the final fight between uh john halo and mr mandibles it's the intense final battle really great visual effects here we've really talked about the arbiter up till now so to see the resolution of this character's arc look at him go look at that great look at that great animation there this looks real very uh they look they're fighting on a hockey rink like why why did he have no friction there look at how real this looks the halo two anniversary blur cutscenes came out a decade ago by the way the fucking halo four spartan ops cutscenes look better than this yeah that's like a decade ago as well look at this look at that look at this animation to be honest it's the only time I was like halfway interested in what was happening it doesn't look good but well yeah I take stuff like this it's like watching a video game cut scene I'm like okay I'll take it it's a conflict between two people that are best described with the title murder man because you've got arbiter who killed a bunch of elites and you've got john halo who's killed a bunch of humans I don't know why they're fighting they seem to be on the same side well it's basically the the main reason is because wow it's it's funny because I'm up until a point it was like the mr mandibles he could be redeemed if he killed john halo but like he's moved past that as a thing so I think it's just for his own satisfaction at this point I'm just like yeah I'm gonna fight him he's here and I'm gonna I'm gonna chop him up with my sword I like how he get like john halo gets a second win but it's like for no reason at all he just decides like yeah I'm gonna win now does this look better or worse than red versus blue but they're they're animated stuff the fight scenes like yeah I'd cooler like choreography that cooler things happening in them that were like really fun and well animated I think uh yeah just I'm uh you know you say murder man just reminded me I think Rich Evans described batman versus Superman the Zack Snyder film as murder man versus captain hypocrite and then Mike said yeah which one's which I mean that describes this too yeah I was um I was thinking how uh one thing that continued to frustrate me immensely throughout all of the show is how many times an elite will be right in front of someone with the sword and they'll swing and they'll miss well there was one time in episode one we're an elite grabs john halo from behind and just throws him and then ignites his energy sword he could have stabbed him could have gotten him but instead he just throws him I have a love relationship with if you have no context this is like you're watching them fight over the girl I have a love-paper relationship with wonder shots especially if it's like CGI characters in it where it's just like I don't care I'm not impressed I have a big old question now have you seen the one take uh in the bad guys the dream works movie I know I still need to see that um do you okay well it's would you say that it doesn't matter what it looks like it would necessarily not be impressive because it's like computer animated uh I mean there's exceptions usually like I'm only in favor of wonders if it's all practical and it's used very sparingly like maybe once in like a you know a whole movie or like in an episode we usually I prefer like traditional cuts and shots do you like all right well you said in one episode I'm asking about mr robert because that's like for the whole what about like 1917 then for instance is that because that's like the whole movie is well there's so much done there that's practical like I I I do respect that even if it's like stitched together with some vfx like that I think that's fine but if it's like two entirely CGI modeled characters fighting and the the camera is just like moving around them as if like I mean at least the environment it's like shot it looks like it's shot on location in a real sort of grassy place I think shooting it in real was a big mistake because that's what contributes to it looking really bad I think they would have been better off if they actually just did the whole thing computer generated including the background instead of doing this weird thing that they've done that they've talked about in post-production where they shot practically but they painted over everything with CG and kept some of the elements in the background anyway to where it starts to look really weird where like it's clearly not tracking correctly but on the thing of like if you have like a one take that's animation it's not like like that's that's a requires an immense amount of coordination between like different animators because it's not like you're gonna have one guy who's going to be doing every single animation in the shot you'd have like multiple teams of animators that have to stitch their work together in a way that sure seem like it can work yeah I would say that it's not always bad I think they get fucked over by by the obsession with trying to make it a wanna is that uh the choreography suffers because the interest is to keep it all unbroken but there's so many times where people are having to like screw up their sort of I mean the last Jedi is one of the best examples of this in the throne room right that they do it all and then they'll only gets cut up anyway which is the really funny part but that um like you know the part where Mass Chief's got is uh it's like you've got your you now don't have the energy sword versus an arbiter with one it's like what are you gonna do but then he's like I'm gonna use my grapple which uh makes no fucking sense at all yeah no you want to get him closer if he's got a sword you want to make sure he's closer it's like one of the stupidest things ever all arbiter doesn't even have to swing you just needed to fall onto chief and he'd be dead now he'd miss arbiter he he just swings every time see he misses he just can't hit him with that sword but it's like the interesting keeping it in a one or it's like it's so hard to explain how chief's even alive and it's like yeah but it's all in one shot it's like well see he flipped a quarter 500 times and it landed on heads every time it's like a gigantic pile of shit is more impressive than a small pile of shit you know but like it's not you know it's not very meaningful and I think that as well when it comes to the sword stuff and their fascination with the swords in the show um I do not fucking have any clue how the master chief is able to have a sword fight with an elite. Elites are like trained to use the swords that's like part of their culture and their warrior element how to how can he just pick up a sword and know how to sword fight and it's not even like a human sword it's like a fucking alien sword and remember this isn't supposed to be an adaptation of halo one the game where you couldn't use the energy sword yeah only the elites had it in the first game yeah yeah they would they would disappear when dropped or they would like blow up the first time he picks them up he knows how to turn it on and he just turns it on like he's done it a hundred times which maybe he has because they're so they're so common that every elite's got a sword so maybe everyone knows it's like yeah he's this here's the on button it's the most understood piece of covenant technology on account of how I wouldn't master chief fight with his assault rifle you know the iconic weapon that he's usually uses and like they show that well because he comes in with his pistol but he doesn't seem to be smart enough to move the aim to a place where the energy sword isn't defending and you know because that's how they they do it right and then he's like fuck it I'll just sword fight you and it's just like okay lose all your advantages it would be more interesting if chief was able to like pick up a sword almost as if in a panic and then use it like oh there's a sword next to me I can use that to block this sword coming at me and he's able to block like a blow or something to the to almost like um like not clumsily but he's clearly not trained in swordsmanship because of course he's not trained in swordsmanship or they give him a mini boss like and during the fall of reach he fights a lower ranking elite with a sword and he's kind of clumsy with it but he learns the basics well isn't isn't the obvious thing that he fights arbitrary in episode four three or whatever and loses but doesn't die in a sword fight and then it encourages him to be like you know next time this happens I want to be able to actually know what I'm doing with this fucking thing and it's and then you just have like one or two scenes where he's just practicing it while you have characters talk about shit easy I just feel like it's I feel like it's just I don't think master chief should be sword fighting yeah he doesn't give a shit about honor he wants to win like he's gonna use his guns that he's trained with he had to I guess the funny thing is probably after just fucking wrecking him by punching him over and over again but then stops remember master chief and arbiter met in halo three and master chief just put his gun up and in his mandibles and almost killed the arbiter with a gun good times that's what's right in that little battle that we uh think about the good times the battle we played force tried to shoot him with the rifle and then lost it and then he used his pistol then he lost that and then he used his knife which to me like I said I'm not saying it's some amazing battle but it's way more satisfying to watch someone who's clearly trained in all of these weapons to use them all in order of how lethal they are at least for him yeah to make it clear that he's trying to win and not just fulfill his fantasy of honor yeah it's it's weird um and also this fight also shows how how kind of shit the elite armor looks compared to the games it looks really neat in games because you could see like the undersuit and even like the like elite skin um in this it just looks like mad I don't know why they abandoned the cool sort of design so that they had in the in the games I really couldn't tell this was supposed to be the arbiter's armor until like episode six when he was in a brightly lit room because it looks virtually the same as all the others all the elites pretty much have the same kind of design and they don't really have the elite especially when you know in later halo games when you had all the different varieties of elite ranks they were very visually distinguishable not just by the design of the armor but by the color so again it's one of those things from the games that you you gotta you you have to animate them anyway maybe animate them in the way that's more like lower accurate and world building accurate so that so that they don't all just blend together you have some who are in the front with this armor they have the ones in the back that kind of look you know they're lower ranked so they kind of look the same um some look particularly special but you don't get that it's one of the it's on that mountain of lost opportunities it's just like why we never see any plasma pistols or carbines or needlers it's just all blue things flying through the air and a bunch of elite clones with swords yeah I agree they all look the same I mean there should be some variety and the the arbiter's armor is supposed to be visually distinct and relatively sort of old fashioned like for for them within their sort of culture and you know the arbiter is obviously like a title right it gets passed around from one elite to another and whoever is the arbiter gets that set of armor they killed a different arbiter done away I apologize I don't have it it's fine um so it seems like they've just thrown out the idea of like the arbiter having that distinct armor and now if they do reintroduce like the arbiter from like halo two he's just gonna look like everybody else for anyone seeing the clip he does get killed but this is some randy arbiter this is not an important one this is just some yeah it's just some guy it's just some guy well uh so I have a question um we're gonna go you know let's go right to left on this one uh I'm gonna go last though uh my question is who is your who is the best character in the show and explain why easy and no madman I'm for no means now bear in mind you can explain who the best character is while encompassing and including any of the caveats or the floors that they have or the stupidity of the writing that's totally fine I'm not asking you to talk about a character who you really like just uh just who you think the best character any rule I'm not allowed to choose the one that's been previously says um no you can you if you agree with that choice oh well I'd be the thing is I'm tempted to get somebody if one's taken to try and go for another character and explain why but the thing is is that I'm not changing because I have an answer so you know what you can there can be overlap you know what overlap is allowed if someone else takes yours that's okay if you can also provide some rationale for them too but so rag you you obviously know that this is an incredibly difficult question the best character does it matter how minor they are or no well minor they need to be like they need to be a speaking character who has some amount of scenes like they don't need to be a POV character necessarily they don't need to be like a super duper main character but they can't be like I can't use the blood no you can well well there are high minds so you can choose the shaman lady I'm not doing that I'm not fucking doing it uh yeah right why don't you um if I'm if I'm put on the spot to pick the best character from Halo season two yeah uh one that comes to mind is maybe the the the the purple robe delete um that that's allowed you can you can pick him I I think because he ultimately is very distrustful of Mackie even though he shouldn't really be trusting of her at all but she has some sway in their hierarchy bizarrely but if we give that to him then the fact that she's here telling him to do weird stuff and they're not clued into everything the fact she's a human the fact he kind of discovers that they've been like communicating with something um from his perspective I guess it makes sense to him that he would want to kill her uh and just stop it so that they can get back to business I think uh I think I'm starting to realize that you're lucky because I think he only has like maybe three or four scenes he is he does not have many scenes that's why I asked if I could get him I'm starting to wonder if I think I've changed my mind on having him be allowed I think I want I think I want somebody who is plays a more prominent like I said they don't have to be a main they don't have to be like on the equivalent of John Halo in terms of the amount of screen time but I think I want somebody who you could like reasonably say was main cast or like recurring like I can't choose plaque boy I want I want I want some real answers is what I want I want some like I want you to try really hard because because I'm looking at this from the perspective of I need to find a character who like at least their perspective is in logically informs a decision that they make and so I'm already like oh shit fuck like that that's how low the bar is like I said I think it would be safe to say that it is very very very very very difficult to think of a character for which you can't point out a number of flaws it's just that I think it's pretty obvious that when you've got someone like John Halo who's kind of like about as bad as it can get him and like McKee that if you think about it on a scale there are certain characters who can actually if you'll find it too hard I can like move it to someone else so that you can think about it like oh do I not get to keep my elite priest answer I don't think that's in the scope of what I'm looking for here fair enough um maybe you could say something about Perez because when she has some she has some trauma based off of what happens to her in the first episode and she decides after that to become my Spartan three after her family dies on reach which I guess is which is a logical thing for her to do if she has lost her family and wants to commit to being able to do something for humanity which is oddly enough a kind of a rare trait in this show um so we could do we could go with that if your answer is I think that's a fair choice I think Perez is one of the if you remember when I say better characters you got to take it in the context of this show oh yeah on the halo season 2 curve I think she's one of the better ones because because we're just getting to the level of she is kind of like like I could believe a human doing the things that she does for the most part so that automatically elevates her like I don't think I don't think she's a madman you know you know which helps um oh and I guess uh I that'll be your answer then I guess that's that's I think so I'll just go there because I don't want to sit here and think about it for two hours I know that nobody is gonna uh necessarily do it too much but like season one storyline and any contradictions or like praise as as a thing can be incorporated into your into your answer so wow like patrician uh who would you pick and you can pick Perez as well if you want to I'm gonna pick Spartan Kai I think that she's actually a decent character in fact I would go so far as to say that if you gave Spartan Kai and all of her relevant scenes to the master chief actor that he would actually come off as being a faithful recreation of the master chief so Spartan Kai throughout this show she's on silver team she's one of the Spartans that I presume loses her pellet right yes so she's going through the same emotional roller coaster that the other three on silver team are but she's not a wisecracker like the like vanik and she's not she doesn't have super pdsd like riz and she's not a fucking psychopath like the master chief sorry john halo is in this show right she stays emotionally centered she stays loyal to the master chief even though he's being a bit of a psycho and like tries to not rat him out to the ackerson I can believe a human yeah she wears her armor quite a bit and she stays loyal to the unse after reach I will say your your answer is interesting because when you include season one characteristics I think it makes things a lot more hard I think the events of reach fuck with a character completely yeah right they pitch it as she didn't know about the finer points of what was going on and I think that's the strictest part but I could also see it working in that she's trying to mentor the next generation of Spartans and she's actually like decent as a mentor figure she's a bit retarded with the the lasers coming from everywhere nowhere bit but I assume she was just following ackerson's lead on that but this scene of Kai just beating the fuck out of john halo was very cathartic for me because it felt like the master chief was killing murder man it felt like the halo show was actually going to turn into the halo show uh yeah okay uh so now we got Perez and Kai as uh candidates mues who would you pick I mean I find the question funny so I'm like trying to find a sneaky way out you know I tried that it doesn't work Mahler it doesn't work I think I've got a character that's more significant but still very safe for me to choose from being like too contradictory at least in season two that's gonna be keys he's pretty straightforward leader man who gives a speech about how we should definitely fight guys and then later on he's like oh gosh we gotta get the people out there he does and he's like oh gosh this is such a bad situation I hope we can make it out and then he does a sacrifice with a little lie and he's like bye I'm out like that's pretty straightforward I don't think there's much there that's I can't see myself finding him to be like this giant contradiction obviously not at all right the rough talking about like faithfulness of the character just him in this show the roughest part would be that keys is a collaborator and the conspiracy behind to reach uh well he didn't do he didn't do as much to stop it as he could have semi ignorant but it's weird because he's an admiral which means he's like one of the highest ranked people in the unsc he's actually a higher station than he is in inhaler one but the unnc is not entirely in control this whole like that's what yeah but that's what makes it all really confusing I would I yep you know keys that's an answer uh that's an answer my my goal here is not to like any past any judgment it's more so I'm curious to see how somebody would try to explain a choice in a show that's this flawed uh so John if you had to pick someone and remember any of the answers have already been given you can you just need to provide an explanation that's all yep no I got a unique one uh with a big old asterisk uh Catherine Halsey okay um because I mean obviously the writing is fucked and it doesn't tap into the potential of that character and it can't make up the show can't make up its mind whether she's well there there's supposed to be an ambiguity that character what I like about the character in addition to like the actress that plays her I think she's quite good um again the writing's fucked but I do like the idea of a character that's genuinely torn between being a mother figure to these kids and somebody who is willing to do commit war crimes to to say to save humanity you know I wish uh I wish the writing was sophisticated enough to depict that tornness you know between one side and the other but it isn't it's just the character very clumsily handled I did I want to like that character and I really like the actress it's a shame all right so we got Perez we got uh we got uh Kai uh yeah Kai that's right Kai we got peas and we got uh Halsey er who would you pick I guess I'm gonna go I guess a little bit against the grade I'm going with Mr. John Halo um because even though he was acting psychotic for most of the show um he was 100 right about everything that was happening and everybody just did not believe him everyone in power gas let him to like left and right but he was 100 right about what happened everything that he said that was going to happen happened the captain marvel strategy interesting he came to it he came to a faulty conclusion though on a stretch which was that he assumed that like they're using energy swords on whatever planet because they're practicing to invade reach that was a bit of a stretch uh well yeah okay for stretches to be look I was going to say a lot of assumptions oh we're stretching we're in stretch realm that yeah he's absolutely he's proven right that's not what that was not what they normally did um that was his point they would just glass it why were they down there why were they trying to take out the common link or whatever the hell it was with the relay link right that was abnormal and that's what he was questioning and and nobody wanted to like just pull the footage they took yeah and that's no don't they have footage on the helmets apparently they don't anymore if they did then the whole plot would just like break if you want a character to come across as more intuitive or intelligent than others you say one way you could make them really smart or the other make everyone else really stupid that we love doing that everyone else just became a humongous retard and okay never thought anyone would be picking Mr. Riggs I he's consistently psychopathic I guess I think what he's a correct thing is we're having a lot of fun here can I change my vote real quick to the to the dead forerunner I look all right we're having fun but we'll get to John fucking Halo all right I got you we've got a I'm just curious about the answers so we got yeah so we got Perez we got Kai we got keys we got Halsey and we got John Halo and I'm glad you all picked ones that weren't the one that I'm gonna pick damn oh do we get to confer to have a second chance can we can we guess what you're gonna pick yes I think there's a big clue as to who he's gonna pick I could be wrong blind grenade man no it's not the clue would be that he seemed prompted to bring this up right after we were talking about a certain character that none of us have mentioned yet are we talking about oh soren's wife no I don't know okay if it's a real answer it's going to be soren but it's probably corn no it's not one and I'm actually surprised nobody said so I think soren's got problems that we introduced in season two if you asked me in season one I would have probably said soren's the best character and I'm surprised nobody said Vanik either because like I consider him to it's it's hard to pin down what exactly you would point to as being like the insane choices that he made um but the problem is it's like he's not he's a bit of a to him yeah that's not much to be for him so soren so I was gonna say is the soren would be my number two I've had soren probably would be my number two if I had to pick someone my answer is not soren and it's not really interesting not for any choice would be my number two but I decided that keys is much harder to uh criticize for inconsistencies I think compared to who the thing is the reason why I can't pick who I think you picked is because I don't know enough about halo to say whether or not there's more that's okay you don't need to know anything to judge this show no it's it's not even that it's like this there's information about this show that I'm not going to have remembered fully about the nature of I'm going to say the covenant that probably guides us into where I think freeze choice is going okay go ahead so the I think that the character with the strongest writing in halo season two is arbiter mr mandibles which one I'm going to keep calling him dang I think I heard the clue was right there he brought it up when we were talking about the boss fight yeah what I'm what I find fascinating as well about not uh mr mandible I used to call him not arbiter I'm trying to mix so because that just makes it confusing so mr mandibles what I find interesting about mr mandibles is I don't know if the writers know what kind of character they've created with him because what they've created is what they wanted makita b but that they have consistently failed to do which is create somebody who was something of a tragic villain he is absolutely a villain obviously and clearly uh there are elements to a storyline though that are kind of fascinating to think about in terms of how it all lines up because it almost makes a point that the show doesn't I don't think the show quite recognizes think about who mr mandibles is as a character is like what we know about him is he was part of the covenant he grew up in the covenant and thus would have been indoctrinated by the covenant to believe in all of their belief systems went all the way through the ranks was in the military um must have failed somewhere at some point and now he has a new mission that he's been tasked with as a arbiter which is that he needs to kill john halo uh he needs to retrieve the keystones those are like the main things that he is involved in as well as being involved in the invasion of reach um there's plenty to be said from a world building perspective that's weird that you would have an arbiter be in charge of an invasion of a planet but if you understand it's like okay so we have that baseline of the motivations he believes in the covenant and he needs to kill john halo uh and retrieve the keystones unfortunately mackey serves as a consistent roadblock to him achieving his absolution she repeatedly and consistently stops him from achieving the redemption that he needs to rebuild a life for himself and she's doing it under false pretenses at this point the reason why she keeps stopping him from killing him is because she is concealing from the covenant and from him that uh that she cannot interact with the forerunner artifacts anymore that's not something she can do so she is willing to essentially allow uh mr mandibles to continue to be denied a pathway to redemption in his own worldview uh because she needs to serve her own goals she then when he starts to get particularly frustrated with her realizing like you're denying me like the possibility to redeem myself that uh she begins to employ more duplicitous means of manipulating him uh she says like the prophets are false and you gotta believe in me and with the help of cortana who for some reason decides to help her she begins essentially having the carrot of like here's a redemption for you that you can have you can go to halo i can use your belief in your religion to essentially get you to serve my ends and uh unfortunately uh mr mandibles this works on him she uh mackey event basically supplants a false prophet in the form of the prophets of the covenant with herself um she keeps manipulating this character uh to essentially work against his own interests but he can't see it because he's too um he's just too fanatical he's too fixated on his religion um and so it's like we see that basically for the rest of the season you have uh not other than having been completely manipulated by mackey into serving her goals to the detriment of his own and he follows her all the way until he is on the doorstep of the central figure of his like religion the halo ring and it's here that he gets beaten to death by john halo and then gets stabbed by god right at the right at the like having me denied any capacity for redemption in his own worldview and it's like huh that's weird you've like kind of created something of a character here again he's a villain very quintessentially a villainous character obviously i mean he was he was a big like he fits into that role he was involved in the invasion of riches on the covenant side he's in the war against humanity obviously a villain unlike mackey they've actually managed to introduce elements that make it like hmm it's like huh there's a there's a level of sadness to his story that i think they believe that they have with mackey when she's actually a clown meanwhile it's like man there's something the tragic there a little bit about uh mr man there is kind of onto a betrayed and manipulated by these forces that have absolutely no interest in helping him or helping him find any meaning in his life or achieve any kind of absolution especially considering that he had to like fight off all the other elites on the ship to get to this point too like he had to make a really big decision it's actually like a really when you delve into it and what it must have meant for him that that's actually a really big decision to commit to that yeah it's it's it's um mackey cries crocodile tears of his death she did this to him she got him killed um there were many instances where because she is a reptile yeah she lost her she lost her pet the noxious taint of mackey like mr manables would have achieved the redemption like like that ultimately all that's happened is like both of the both of the redemptions he was offered were false they were both false it was false in in the sense of the the redemption that was being offered by the uh the covenant uh because obviously the religion has got all of its problems and and all of the schemes of the prophets but what mackey offered him is clearly not something that he would actually want but the thing is is that she's concealing her motives from him he doesn't know that he's about to help her destroy the covenant he doesn't know that that's what her plan is but she's a duplicitous snake um who just manipulates him into his own death and so it's like huh okay so yeah my answer is not uh is mr manables i think that's very uh interesting i would like to see a pov scene of what exactly his crime was or his dishonor to made him the arbiter for me to really kind of agree with that what we're about seven you sound like you are you had some discontent well no i was gonna i was gonna praise it and say that uh in case anyone is lost um for example yam i don't want to follow that he's very much like the Zuko of this show wouldn't you say that's that's uh a well i don't know so i think it would have been interesting to be triggering all right we had got rid of mackey and you had uh mr mandibles here instead and he carried through setting him up of him discovering maybe what halo really did and what he might do as a result of that because we've shown that he's willing to you know he's willing to kill the elites that were trying to stop him earlier this idea of what you know what would he do if he bumped into guilty spark or whatever and he was finally the one who could who could do it and like he could finally redeem himself he could do the halo stuff but then he's like oh shit it does what like oh man i know that's that's the interesting thing with mr mandibles is though i think that there's something to be said about his story ending with him dying uh under false having been manipulated at the doorstep of the central element of his religion there is a story you could continue with of him realizing that he's been the subject of mackey's deception as well and realizing that you know kind of being sent on a similar trajectory to original arbiter of realizing that everything that he'd done all the horrible things he'd done was all for a lie and like having him torture and murder her would be very satisfying at the end that would have been a very nice thing i don't like the boss fight a lot because of the fact that he kind of wins it and then allows round two to happen second wins you know i actually i win even though you beat the shit out of me for all of that stuff now i get to win because you can't hit someone in front of your sword yeah that's the thing it is round two he's not allowed to attack on halo it sucks it's like i lose now yeah they could they could do it season two didn't season three and just have arbiter beat back from the dead that's no way because the show you might have noticed there was a particular amount of contempt for manky seeping through hate that character immensely she's the worst character in the show yeah and there are new elements of what annoys me about her in season two which is that even in the face of all of the horrible things that she did in season one even with the fact that she is singularly the most responsible person for the fall of reach it seems like the show still wants to do elements of like yeah but i mean look you got to feel bad for her like she had a difficult life and you know she's confused and everything it's insane i cannot believe that they're trying to create one of the because again one of the things that works in the favor of mr mandibles is he is in way less of a position to know better than she does because she went i mean first of all she's a human um she went to reach she knows more about the forerunner stuff than he does like she has a greater capacity she might have the she has a massively elevated capacity to understand the nature of this this situation and yet she still decided that she wants to kill absolutely everything um she's a monster she's an absolute monster like it's crazy that they're still and yet they still have scenes like ah but she feels sad you know she misses john halo she just wants you know maybe she just wants to build a better world it's like this isn't this is so cringe why did you this was a terrible idea she was the worst she might be the worst thing about the whole show in totality even taking into account the destruction of john halo god you were you started uh along you know how long ago was it hours ago by asking what was the thing you remember most from season one and i was gonna say like i can't get mackey out of my head she's like this this horrific taint that smeared all over the show and i can't yeah like she's a tumor that's just you just you can't detach it from this show she's the thing is they could have detached her from season two by saying she was dead she died like the shit villain she is but they didn't they insisted she comes back she's just that much of a crowd fucking favorite we had to have mackey she is she's like she's radioactive to this show the only thing that will heal is just like distance and maybe time if you're lucky but it's possible the damage has been done she's been too close for too long and it seeps into everything it's interesting because i don't have the bios of the first seasons to me she just comes off as a plot device i'm like yeah she's a bit of a manipulator but i don't think that makes her a bad character per say so the thing is just like in season one the way you need to understand the backstory yeah i mean watch that if you if you dare um yeah is that when she was a kid she kind of had a difficult life and then she got zapped by an evil man and then the covenant abducted her right after that and then she was like all right i'm gonna kill all humans now i'm gonna actively participate i'm gonna take join it i'm gonna watch as i have all these people get killed on the ship and i stab this guy in the face and i'm doing all this evil stuff and then she goes to earth and she's like huh you know what maybe maybe maybe humans ain't so bad humans have feelings and then she gets zapped by the smartest character the best character in season one was the random military police officer guy who was constantly doubting her who knew she was up to no good yeah and like he zaps her and they do a cut to like oh look in her childhood she got zapped you know humans they got some evil in them or something and then she kills that guy activates the device escapes after killing many more marines and then flies away from halo to continue to betray humanity and try to kill everybody and it's like yeah she's unhinged like she is in she's insane and inconsistently characterized as well she's a terribly written character i agree that we know dance this a bit better just real quick why was his rifle damaged before he fought the officer uh i because he crash landed didn't he crash landed seems yeah yeah they show us anywhere it's like it's like so it just feels so arbitrary in terms of a right in choice yeah that was an energy shield uh an energy sword right next to him that he could use that's good that's good that's that's handy not to just rip off the the halo cut scene but it feels like a better setup is that he sees maki on her own he knows the officer is around you somewhere right and he's got the the cloak it feels like he should have his rifle and the officer should have his cloaking shit and that should be the fight use all of their resources and have them counter each other yes it is motion tracker god forbid yeah something it's so boring when it's just like uh whoops you haven't got all the signature things you need and instead they pull out a fucking grapple like well i mean you can imagine if it was like imagine because imagine if you had an episode that was like you had you know real master chief and i don't know a super duper elite like a ship master like or you know an arbiter in like a forest and they have it's kind of like a predator situation where it's like a back and forth of them trying to hunt each other down and and kill the other while using all of the strategies that they have to dispose of whether it's like active camera or equipment or things like that and it's constantly going back and forth that could be cool it's like as they tried that in the first season and we didn't get this in this season because he was in the armor for six minutes but at least in the first season they did a terrible job at it but they like they recognized that they knew to do it they just did a really bad job at doing it and in this they didn't even try i do i agree that mckay's presence is consistently destructive to the show because it's always undermining the threat that the covenant poses because it's so stupid that they would put her in any position even if yeah even if she is a quote unquote blessed one whatever the fuck that means she has john special dna for runner dna i guess like oh she got john's dna all right got plenty of it yeah but she fundamentally breaks the setting because the covenants whole motivation is that humanity's connection to forerunner technology undermines their religion so them openly acknowledging it just completely changes the covenant is exactly yep to me she's a constant reminder that this is not halo uh yeah pretty much always stands out dramatically as well as other things like you can't relate to an alien gotta throw a lame human in there uh otherwise it wouldn't how would you know what she's feeling and it's just funny to think that people connected with arbiter using again original xbox 2004 graphics and animation on xbox and like writing voice acting more impactful and meaningful than everything that they could achieve here with all of their money that would be a conversation i'd love to have with some of the key writers for this to be do they know what do they care or do they think of it all it's just like well those were the games you know like what does that mean yeah but it's just crazy because it's like how can you look at something i just can't not see them viewing it with a level of contempt but it's like how can you do that when you just had a bunch of video game developers with like an idea that they had no idea whether or anybody would like but just working really hard they created something awesome that allowed you to even have this job in the first place and yet you still like seemingly scoff at it and look down on it when it's better than the thing you've created and we'll have more of an enduring legacy than the thing you've created yeah like god damn how is it like i just it's yeah i mean do we mention by the way the flood just kill everyone in command yes they that's right they they kill everybody they kill power and gossky who's in charge they kill everybody that's just like the unse command well supposedly they kill they don't sure are dying which that's true they don't yeah infection well that's the thing it's um it's probably because i've fought them away she's gonna be like a gray mine or some shit we we didn't talk about this but there was a final battle like a space battle to involve the spot in three so what chi did in that battle was she piloted a covenant corvette and flew into a supercar and blew it up she will survive this uh no way they show her alive yeah the armor the armor is weirdly durable because master chief takes like a glassing beam it's dead on it survives attrition because um yes the armor is we this is the third instance of spartan surviving being in the epicenter of an explosion a massive explosion good armor one john halo flew a banshee into a phantom and blew it up in with him in the middle of it uh in episode nine chi was on an uh a ship that crashed on a reach and exploded and she was fine and uh here you have her well doing really if it makes them invulnerable why do they ever take it off well here's a question cobalt team uh the line is that they got killed before they even knew what was happening it's like well they were in armor so you're telling me that cobalt team got killed by just some covenant with some plasma rounds instantly without them with them being caught off guard but chi can survive being at the epicenter of the explosion of a covenant super carrier that's insane it's worth keeping in mind as well they're not only the armor good but like you know chief got shot with a uh like the skin of the humans in this is pretty strong as well except when it's both not and the armor's not because there are instances where they just casually get killed because i was going to say even vannik right you got one one stab through the chest in the gonzo yeah one needle right how you can get blasted in the gut with uh with like a plasma round and that'll just knock you down but if you get stabbed it's like maybe you can't even be stabbed by needler with uh elite strength if they've shown this way i don't know i guess really weird when they're watching this i'm starting to think they have people get damaged based on whatever they want to happen in the story instead of it being weird they do have plot on the lake john halo has oh well that no he's literal in universe that's right we have to talk about that in talking about the nature of john halo's destruction as a character um so so you guys might remember in the beginning of halo three cortana says that the reason why she picked uh master chief is because she felt that he was lucky which is like ain't that fun and that's just like a fun little thing to have that like that's what he's viewed as being he's just the lucky spartan um that's cool uh 343 decided that they wanted to make a much worse science fiction world so like they made master chief a chosen one like set and stone chosen one thousands and thousands of years ahead of time and clearly that obsession on 343's part who i think people should be aware that there is a greater degree of responsibility i guess for like the way that this show looks in 343 um because in this show they've taken it to like a whole new level of chosen one we've talked about how instead of all humans being able to interact with forerunner artifacts because humans are forerunners sorry guys uh well actually i hope most people agree with that at this point but like i don't know and it's like it's the litmus test for whether or not we could be friends so 343 like 343 guilty spark literally calls him a forerunner everything that he said like yeah all right look i know the terminals but if you have to square away that contradicts all right i feel like it pretty clearly leans in one direction but um instead of all humans being able to use it john halo can because he's got special super dna traits that let him do it uh now that's what it was before and there was a lot that was made of like the idea of prophecy and like uh you're being guided to halo and everything like that um it's gotten worse now um there's a conversation during the fall of reach where he's talking with pares and he talks about how you know i i when i met halsey i flipped a coin and it fell heads 11 times in a row uh and she says oh lucky and he says no i knew and then he says every time i go into battle i know i could lose somebody but i know it's not going to be me he knows with absolute confidence that he will never die which is funny considering he did i fucking hate it i fucking hate that so i didn't read the script even even he was gonna come back with him dying not dying even that totally removed from it i fucking hate the character implications of him saying that and also calling it calling a coin flip correct 11 times in a row that doesn't happen so well is the thing right here's the thing rags i think look all right and this has got a sounded sane and you've got to bear with me okay but we're there man that john halo has with pares later where she says did you just get lucky or did you make it like heads did you make it full on heads when you hear that you're like what do they mean what are they trying to say there's a scene in episode eight where he's basically he's confronted with the choice of do i go to halo to stop mckay or do i go to the battle between this human fleet and the covenant fleet to save uh kai and the spot and threes and he flips a coin and we get a big dramatic slow-mo shot and we don't see what happens and i'm genuinely not sure if it's that the slow motion starts going slower or if he discovers he has telekinetic powers i'm not sure i don't understand if he actually has telekinetic powers i'm one of the big ones am i the only one that didn't mind that i thought i mean he's like a secret hand human you are the only person who didn't mind that it's possible it's in the lore but they don't show it in the stories though what are we aiming not not tell not telepathy but like moving faster like she fucking deflects a missile with it like his hand like he had kortana to do it but they did do like some sort of they don't show the game addresses the idea that john halo can pause a coin flip in midair i don't think that's what they were trying to imply there's just it's dramatic like oh was they're gonna land on heads or of course it can be here's here's a question for you we are when john halo goes onto the covenant ship and punches the dashboard and absorbs kortana back into his brain what do you think that means uh i thought that means bad writing but i mean i thought that meant superpowers because he said you don't know what i can do or something or you don't know everything and then he did it i think that i genuinely think they might actually be setting up that john halo has like superpowers and i don't mean being a super soldier but like i don't think that's what they were trying to apply it's just that you don't know everything your calculations aren't everything i can't survive this fight your calculations on everything i'm gonna punch you into my brain now i don't know how that happens see kortana you don't understand how much of a psychopath i am i will literally have calculated it to my brain i don't underestimate it so let's put it right when perez says did you make it call heads and the show obviously believes that's true what do you think we're meant to conclude from that that he has like super enhanced reaction time and shit but no but what does that what does that have to do with another person flipping a coin that always holds heads every time it feels like a really bad it feels like they um the red rosen cranson gildenstern are dead and didn't understand why the coin kept flipping i think it was heads every time they flipped it which was that those characters were destined to die as part of the play and that's why i kept flipping it they just figured like oh he can flip it the same time every time because he's got predeterminism on his side that's that's so here's the thing i think that there's an interpretation you could run with like the normal way to read the scene like the healthy functioning brain i guess when you're not like me and have gone insane thinking about this show is when he flips the coin it's like we don't need to see what the answer is because we know he's going to go back and save his friends because that's what he believes in he doesn't need to be told to do anything by pure random chance but the problem is like i think the show is more retarded than that i think that they're actually trying to set up that he like might have cosmic superpowers no i think this is incredibly simple what they were trying to say that's why we're discussing it real people can do this real people can call a coin 11 times it's not just that they call it yeah you can flip it a certain amount if i mean no no no no no but the thing is that you can do this i know you can do this but why are you saying that you want like a weighted coin or it has to be trickery but why do you keep saying that he flipped it halsey flipped the coin how did he make her make it full heads 11 times in a row how could he possibly do that he made like halsey halsey flipped the coin and i thought he flipped the coin i know i'm i'm pretty sure the halsey i wasn't halsey wasn't with chief in the so it okay all right so in in this show it was with halsey that they did the coin flip we see it in season one i think it was like episode four okay she's the one flipping the coin and asking him to call it and he keeps calling it heads every time um so like it's not that he has some like special i remember this was when he was a child like before he was a Spartan not when he had like super duper reflexes um this was him as a kid doing the coin flip and it fell ahead 11 times and Perez said you made it full heads maybe you made it full heads and the show clearly thinks that's the case like i do think that i don't i don't think that there's like that you can interpret it in a way it's just like yeah it's just luck i think it is meant to be like cosmic prophecy i think i think yeah i would agree with that because that that's three for threes approach with the whole library and plot point is that like everything that had happened in the series up to that point was leading to chief being on requiem so like i get if they're leaning into that i'm getting i'm getting really lost why are people not focusing on the fact that it fell heads 11 times in a row and he called it heads 11 times in a row like if you were saying well he had an enhanced perception that's how he could tell what it would fall on it's like yeah but it kept falling on heads you have you have to call it before it's flipped to you can't call it while it's in midair he's not seeing it in midair so that's a that's a one in one yeah 1024 chance to flip it 10 in a row on heads 11 11 times in a row on heads i mean it's not impossible and bear in mind as well that he said every time i go into battle i know i'm gonna lose somebody and i don't know what's not gonna be me it's like what do we when you take all of these references in totality and you think about all the crazy prophecy stuff that they've already alluded to frequently throughout season one and two the idea that john halo has a unique cosmic connection to the forerunners i think when you tie all of that in together i think it's safe to say that there has to be some cosmic bullshit going on there especially when he punches cortana back into his brain like maybe you realize you can do this you can flip a coin so that it lands the same way it just i think one for 11 for 11 times one in 2048 but why do you keep saying not listening no there's a way you can move your arm to make it land the same every time so we're meant to conclude that we deliberately flip the coin to land on heads 11 times in a row to see whether i don't think halsey flipped it 11 times i think john flipped it 11 times she flipped it he called it that's what he said uh then then she could practice it it's a skill that you could do what i you can practice this just to try and get the same amount of rotations that will land the way you want i think i think we're mixing things up so there's there's a coin flipping scene in season one you said there's also a coin flipping scene in season two when he's on the pelican by himself and he keeps flipping it over and over i okay so let's let's clarify okay when he was a kid in season one we see a scene where he's with halsey and she's flipping a coin and asking him to call it and he keeps calling the heads and then in season two he speaks about how when he was a kid halsey flipped the coin and he called it heads 11 times in a row and then the show and then perez says did you maybe you made it full heads every time let's watch this thing i don't remember him saying nothing about halsey all right i don't know give me give me a minute here all right i'm i maybe in season one that's what happened because i don't remember legitimately about like i'm i'm the one but okay like i'm really hey look all right just give me give me like a minute here to get all right let me use the lure up quick is is is the point that the writers are dumb because i agree the writers are done i think i think it's just everyone's trying to agree on where they're dumb where does the dumb yeah well like i said i i certainly get the impression that they're trying to imply some like cosmic prophecy of some kind i can see john halo being such a narcissist that he interprets his success rate as being like divine in some way and that's just his interpretation and maybe he misremembered but i'm not gonna i'm not actually gonna believe that he said she flipped a coin sorry sorry she flipped the coin he didn't do it he didn't practice how to flip it in exactly the same way to make it call heads 11 times because he was just a memester it's definitely some cosmic prophecy bullshit i think the mix-up is that there is a scene where he's flipping the coin and that that can be confusing but yeah i get what you're saying no but i'm saying that that's the scene where like i genuinely don't know if they're actually implying that he made it like stop in midair and fall heads because he's got super powers like i describe it in a flowery way that i imagine the writers would try well that he hasn't understand or connection with the universe that allows him to have a unique insight into the way things unfold there's that Deadpool character domino where like she's super lucky and i think it's that reality work around her i don't think it's that it's that i think i think mold is right in tune with the universe to a degree that's almost subconscious but he can access it yeah that's right you can you you will know everything will happen because again it's meant to be that there is like a luck in relation to this forerunner prophecy that is like cosmic and divine in it's and and that he has some capacity to tap into it well i know one thing they definitely should not have had the characters acknowledge it uh yeah but the problem is that the show is all about it that's like the big problem is that whereas in in the bungee games it was just like a fun little thing that you notice it's now become like a huge defining aspect of the character um which is really annoying i find it's yeah this goes all the way back to just they make him cosmically important which is uh it's just it's kind of a there's something they do in a lot of stuff people who take over ip's they go with like the hero worship from a fandom of a character that in the actual original stuff is not as special as they come across when you're a newcomer like say for example you get into halo halo 4 you already know about master chief being this fucking legendary guy you have no idea exactly why you just know the people like think he's fucking amazing and then if you were told to make another story or another adaptation you could just so easily slip into being like yeah i'm going to make him super important and the fans will love it because he's so you know important to them and then you know that easy fuck up or you're like no that's not why everyone loves him well you think about um a way to compare like for instance in in combat evolved guilty spark links up with like uh master chief to get him to do everything but like that's just happen stats that's not that's not because master chief is uniquely important in the sense of allowing him to do his plans i mean he even says i'll just find like another person to do it um he is in the right plate well i guess you could say he's either in the right or the wrong place at the right or wrong time to be in this situation um he's really important in the sense of humanity because he's like a super major player but the events and like the story that he gets thrust on is a matter of like happenstance you know he was on the pillar of autumn the pillar of autumn went to halo and then he you know everything everything went as it went from there it wasn't like well because because whenever you start to do the predeterminism thing it's like all right well now you're starting to get into a territory of like what is the nature of people's agency in this world um obviously there's a big question of what is the nature of john halo's agency if everything was predetermined to the point that guilty spark said i knew you would be here um what what is his capacity to make choices but like furthermore how do the forerunners deal with everybody else's capacity to make choices when they have no connection to this cosmic force like what was um did the forerunners make the old lady in the antique shop not shoot must like john halo in the face when he walked through the door uh did they make it so that um you know mr mandibles missed every swing did they make it so that when uh they dropped that bomb on reach that it didn't fall on the building that uh john halo was in or that when they started glassing sanctuary that the guy may be missed and then hit him or any number of the times that somebody could have shot him and killed him or because i think you have to a character could have made a different choice like what happened if john halo's family didn't settle on the planet that made him come into contact with the first keystone when he was a kid what if halsey never went to the planet and recruited him into the spartan program like it's just you keep going on that list it's like this is insane oh yeah you have to choose between they are able to do all of those things or they lose to the flood you can't have both of those things a society or a civilization that can engineer things to that kind of a degree it's basically omnipotence i don't see how you could possibly lose to the flood if you can like predetermine and arrange all of these elements of the halo story or if you can lose to the flood of your super duper advanced but you just the enemy is too overwhelming and then you have a last ditch effort to stop them you know like that it's more believable that the forerunners lost to the flood if they don't have the power to predict the future to this degree which is this is like tens of thousands of years of going into the future and being like this will happen this will happen like you're you're basically like organizing electrons at this point and it's it's just it's it's basically magic there's no way you can do that it just i just don't believe it i don't believe it maybe there should have just been somebody in that scene who turned to pares and said that sounds fucking stupid what do you mean he made the coin he changed the coin split full heads 11 times and called accurately heads 11 times i think it's designed to make the average viewer go oh it used to be that master chief was just really good at his job you know like he was really good at being a soldier here's what it was kortana had to pick a spartan and she chose chief because chief was as good as all the other spartans but he was just a little bit better and she attributed that little bit better he was to luck that was it luck was just a luck was just a little modifier that was on top of his already existing skill and choices that he would make not that he was defined as being cosmically lucky chosen one by the forerunners hundreds of thousands of years ago after in the aftermath of what was it the human forerunner war and then they created the prometheans and everything from there do 343 man like this this feels so downstream from all of those decisions doesn't it it's like they've made some wild we're live we're just living with the consequences pretty much and this was like kind of criminal mass and run to the clips and you know when she's like i didn't touch this like why wouldn't there just be a camera she could check yeah there should be like a sensor that says somebody reached in here and touched this thing so student like auto logs it i do hate that regarding the corn i do hate the suggestion in the writing that by the end of the show they're going to turn chief into some like neo like figure where he can just bend reality to his will you know and then it's like i really hope that they don't do that i hate the idea of chief yeah sorry go ahead safe to say that i'll be in the chief is a more faithful adaptation at this point i i hear that a lot and it's just like met my characters were like polar opposite the halo but like i guess like in the opposition there is an implied understanding of like what halo is and what the fans like about it i guess that's what people are getting like you know what it is is a murder man in the halo tv show will never be able to learn that what he's doing is wrong master chief and rb and the chief at least on occasion can learn that he's been like yeah well you always try to find a way to funnel his deep flaws into positive outcomes here and there like you can right you can move and change him but this show like it's just funny to talk about that a serious way like your character writing in that is much stronger than this shit which is meant to be it's there's no reason why this should suffer so much as it has but yeah it's just another one to add on to the pile and a funny one to add on because most people didn't even fucking watch season two let's be honest no they didn't no they did not i i guess it it's just funny that this is the idea that like there are actually some people who think that this was a course correction look right maybe this will be the time we can bitch about when we watched the full of reach episode people said it was the best episode people said it was good i think it's actually rated at like a nine on imdb it's rated very that's just gotta stop if you if you want if you want an actual good adaptation of your favorite video game franchises you can't be given them like a nine out of ten for a like a two out of ten episode of television okay i can already hear the halo fan in like ten years going i don't know why they never continued the halo show the fall of each episode was so well received yeah it's got an 8.9 metacritic what they're not metacritic on imdb sorry modern halo fans are like completely fucking clueless on like how their rating of stuff affects the quality of it and so they're just like i don't know why they never continued spartan ops that was my favorite part of halo 4 i think um i think it's that um we've talked before about how about how uh tlj you know the biggest thing that tlj did was it uh permanently fractured the star wars fanbase um halo is in a similar place it's just that you can't quite point to a very specific thing that uh identifies the fracture but like the fracturing in the halos case is that halo used to have a lot of people who were really into the games but like they they weren't like super into like the lore and everything they they they like the campaign they like the characters they enjoyed the multiplayer they were just casual fans i don't know like what a halo fan looks like now but at this point like if you still would call yourself a halo fan it's like why i guess you must be like really really really into the whole thing including a whole bunch of 343 stuff which at this point has eclipsed bungee in terms of the total contributions um if you were to take like the totality of the content and the the year it feels like a similar story to star wars isn't it yeah there's more there's more bad star wars movies than good ones a lot more yeah i guess what's interesting is that there's more there's more good halo games than bad ones i think if you were to just break it down by numbers because you got one two three od st reach uh like don't forget spartan assault that's true you include i guess the spinoff like mobile games then it starts to get a little bit more competitive but like i i guess i i don't know what it looks like to be a halo fan right now and like what exactly you would want because it's gotten so muddled with all of 343s contributions that i think at this point they're just lumped in with the general like xbox fans and those guys are just psychos in general apologies to all the xbox fans several those you guys need to sort some stuff out some of those red face emojis gonna come up and out of the youtube ones the angry looking guy i love halo flying what i i guess uh i guess the point being that like you know what what should like a halo show look like is an adaptation what should it be looking towards it feels like it we should always be pointing to the original games because those are the ones that have like the universal legacy whereas our 343 stuff is nice device them yeah i mean if you were gonna adapt something why would you make it hard on yourself by adapting the parts that people generally really don't like in that have ruined the series quite frankly well i what i wondered this entire time is why don't they just do the halo games and then if that works out do a better call sol style prequel that covers your stupid not expanse storyline that you want to do now that you've earned it but they don't want to earn it they just want to do their thing some of the ends of happening with a lot of these adaptations is uh you'll get people rolling out the defense of like you don't want the same thing you want to let them experiment let them move around and uh it's like you wouldn't want that and i've seen the response before and i have to say well just like can we do that one time i just want to do it one time and once it's done and it's bad because that's what everyone assumes really like yeah sure fine we'll reference that as the time we did it and it was bad but i just i don't think i buy it anymore the like uh if you did it once you know like if byrishaw gets adapted it's probably gonna be like once it's finished or whatever it's it's like there's so much to work with the blueprint is so ready to go but they're probably gonna fuck with it to god knows how much ends and they have to have to modernize it so that the political messaging doesn't get confused i'm so glad you mentioned that i i watched i watched all the halo declassifieds for this um like that like the behind the scenes commentary and okay yeah they throw them up on youtube is like the behind the scenes talking about that week and they'll usually have an interview with one of the cast members um so there was uh there was an interview with kiki wolfkill for those of you don't know she's like one of the big people responsible for halo's destruction uh she was like big executive producer at like three four there i don't think she's there anymore i think she's now like works at microsoft in like trans media so like all of the adaptations and anything that they want to do with like xbox stuff and so she's an executive producer on the uh on the show and when you know us essentially like what is that i look forward to in season two um she said we've taken some risks in the past and continue to do so in our storytelling but we do it from a place where we hope the fans will enjoy being able to see these characters come to life in different ways and telling these rich character stories with them in situations that they experience differently from the games so first of all you might notice that's word salad but the sentiment is like look all right there are things that you recognize but there's a whole bunch of stuff that's new and three four three's been saying this for a decade like they they will say this kind of thing frequently there was um there was a quote from uh in the halo four behind the scenes this one's particularly funny because of how arrogant it is um oh damn let me see if i can oh uh i think he said basically it was i don't think people want just another halo game they may think they want that but what they really want is something that speaks to the things they love but provides them with something new that's a you think you do but you don't yes pretty much like you may think that you want that but you don't um i'm almost certain that every element of the show has is filled with artists who think that they're going to be giving something they're going to be like you're going to love this trust me and then they're going to be like what look at the ratings how did this happen oh and uh i guess for the for the fun of it so bear in mind that this is from like a decade ago so these were the kind of things that were being said in behind the scenes for halo four of like talking about the motivations for halo four so here's just like a bunch of quotes all right master chief is human he's not a machine he's not a set of armor with a big weapon is he human with resilience and courage and then the narrative director said what happens when that soldier starts to discover his humanity doesn't that feel like incredibly reminiscent of like the general you know idea with like season one and two of this show ah yeah the soldier discovering his humanity well soldiers aren't human that was some that was some bullshit i heard about this season was that this was supposed to be an exploration of master chief and versus the persona and john halo and i just i just didn't believe it because they really didn't delve into it like john halo looks wistfully at a poster of him in his armor and then like just decides to go on a murder spree at an ony base yeah it's it's crazy isn't it um i i i like this one as well and a lot of this about halo four in a lot of ways the story we're telling with halo four is about putting cheap in circumstances where he's forced to change he's walking himself it's all these kinds of things oh i like this one the art director said chief and katana are the same person but she has always been the reflection of his humanity they're not the same person they're in what they're look like i get that you have you know nothing about halo i just tell me you don't know anything they're two different people i guess i guess what i'm getting at so how did they get separated was that like split personality like i guess you lost this feminine side oh what i'm like getting at as this uh it's like really what you look at with like this show in a sense it's kind of like inconceivable that it could manifest but in in a similar way it's like yeah but given the direction that halo is taken with like changes in the narrative and the kind of approach that's being taken with the 343 games on the one hand you can also see how this is kind of like where it starts to lead towards because what halo looks like you know who master chief is kind of like the purpose of the series what the central conflict is about has started to shift over time towards what i guess is funny now is that whereas you know you could say that maybe like 15 years ago a character like master chief was very um archetypical and not abnormal as like a character especially in the realm of video games right of like the stoic man a few words or doesn't say anything at all kind of like protagonist who just like goes in saves the day and is a cool hero but like at this point with all of these attempts at like deconstructing master chief like it's it's it would be downright refreshing to have a show where like master chief was uh adapted faithfully as being who he is uh like the stoic generally static you know hero who saves the day and is brave and doesn't afraid of anything there's a lot of different permutations of being able to get these sorts of ideas across that are very faithful and respectful to the source material um and it's a shame that they just they clearly just had another agenda it's very obvious this will this show's legacy will be one that's just used as an example of what not to do of how to show like spite and hatred towards the thing that you're adapting and of course for the record if halo didn't exist other than this show it would still be fucking terrible yes it is a terrible show beyond like think about everything that we've laid out in terms of the actual cause and effect of these events it's insanity it's it's insane it's like i i don't know that there's anything that you can point to that is actually like just rock solid that there isn't like you know massive asterisks for and most of the time it's just completely broken to the core um something i thought about when the scene where john halo gets beaten is um you can tell they kind of wrote it like the typical here's the main character and he's getting beaten by a girl doesn't that upset you fanboys but it's like it no because john halo is so unrecognizable that it there's no impact yeah i'm on kai's side here beat up that psycho for the safety of humanity yeah the sad part was that he lived yeah so in a lot of ways she was acting and has kind of a character and he's a halo show is so diverse from the series that she got reached killed does everyone remember that she portrayed reach she's got her own issues okay yeah she's got issues she's better than master chief as a character he got a plan erect well no she didn't get anything like that was gonna happen no matter what that was actually that was like because no one tried to do it she didn't ask any questions he's glad with the people that's that's that's true um but i mean it's like this is this is what's actually gonna bring us to something that i think is like an interesting uh uh topic that's like tangential to this which is um if you would have think about what do you think the main theme of this season of halo was like what do you think it would be if you could point to something friendship is my identity a singular theme i would probably i would say that maybe the central theme is uh it is something along the lines of not trusting authority uh i think that you're getting close to it but i would put it under a subcategory of the unifying question which is what does it mean to be a soldier seems to be like the big question that they they keep asking over and over again in season two you might recall that there have been a lot of really like weird lines throughout the season like you know what you know why why do you fight is what parengoski asked like uh john halo gives a lot of normal answers like to preserve humanity protect people and she says no you you fight because i tell you to you're a soldier be a soldier stuff like that and they keep there's a lot of the conversation about like following orders you're meant to follow orders soldiers meant to follow orders yeah but i don't know if i want to follow orders because that makes me a machine there's like a whole bunch of that in there and a lot of that is tied up in john halo and kai and i think that it gets very murky because you know what like the idea that kai was just following orders it's like well she was just following john halo's orders but he was doing things that he was lying to them he like he he recruited them on an unsanctioned mission because he had a hunch that he believed it was correct and sure he was but like he went outside the chain he lied to them when they might not have agreed to it if he had done it and that got them in trouble and it's like well surely that makes things more complicated if the idea is that like john halo is in the right for the whole idea of like yeah kai you followed orders like a machine is that all you are a machine and it gets particularly awkward when kai disobeyed orders and was very questioning in season one um like in season one she literally has a line that says do you ever wonder why you never wonder why it's weird to make kai the vast like the vessel of just follow orders this is what you get is kai it's like what do you mean that's not that's not even really who she is and like you're faulting her for essentially using her own faculties which is john halo is coming across like unhinged she's got no evidence for the claims that he keeps making which whether or not that's like some crazy shit that's going on well and she was covering for john for a while yeah she was she covered for a bunch of people just went fucking dead and they don't have an explanation for and then cobalt team fucking didn't do there's no don't ask questions don't just let the planet get exploded yeah but like i i guess i find it strange it would be the idea that like kai is the most culpable for that one like it was definitely perun goski and ackerson and only in the unseq well my issue with her is that she drilled down at all it would get very suspicious so just asking any questions would have led her to being like oh i can't trust my superiors like asking one or two questions for sure like she she goes along with it like the big thing should be we left right before reach fell man that's fucking lucky and all the unseq like like amanda here that's crazy yeah but i like i don't know why why we're leaning in the direction like this somehow absolves and saves john halo like in any way shape or form that's what he was right he talked like a normal person for the rest of us from it he was right everybody everybody did not believe him when he was right okay so people in power were all conspiring against him he tried to tell everyone but he was right well let's let's run through like the the cause and effect of thinking about the nature of it let's think of the the genesis of him being right about what happened on reach was they went to sanctuary to evacuate civilians he went to a calm relay that went down and then the covenant attacked and then they began glancing the planet the conclusion he drew from that is the covenant preparing to invade a planet and then he eventually concludes that it's reach where's the through line there where is the where's the logic in that connection the through line was that they don't do that that's what that's how he said that that's not their normal mo don't want to explain where the hell all these bodies went how people were killed that's later that's after he already concluded that the covenant was on reach that was that was later on that they discovered the empty base and everything so like it's a hunch that's what that's the thing that's that's to be noted it is a hunch based on a pretty limited set of information i think you have to accept that that's a very small amount of information to conclude that the covenant's going to invade not only that that they're on reach that they're already on reach and they're going to be invading very soon i suppose but why else would they be why else would they be doing training exercises or like as there's a war going on with colonies well obviously they're working for something bigger no all he doesn't have to be killed the issue of world building is we don't really know how big human space is so like from the vibe of the show it feels like human space is earth reach and then like a bunch of random basically uninhabited planets they said something along the lines of how like they sort of casually mentioned how like what was it six or so planets got like destroyed or whatever yeah so we we actually have no clue it's something that kind of throws a wrench into things um so they're changing the whole mo and doing all these training exercises for useless as a war well the thing is he concludes it's one of the wars to win he concludes it's a training exercise when his here's an explanation for what could have happened on sanctuary the covenant had been on the planet they were exploring the planet they found out that humans were there and they were doing some excavation like they did in season one when they were on madrigal before they destroyed the planet looking for forerunner artifacts it could just happen to be that they were in an area where there was a comms relay and they took there's another one of those artifacts that they want oh well reach i i but what is that i'm just saying that like there's reasons why they could be doing what they're doing that don't indicate that this is simply a training exercise for an invasion they could be on sanctuary because i got like a reason to be looking around john halo doesn't know like he did he just doesn't have that much information to make this conclusion that's all i'm saying well and he he had also died when everybody in power starts to deny that anything ever fucking happened but that's all insane plot shit like that's the kind of thing it is i guess what i'm saying is like how the hell is kai supposed to how the hell is she's supposed to sort through the fact that apparently the unse is like actively working in opposition to john halo to get him killed to create the spot in three program and that that would be the rationale for the decisions when on its face it just looks like john halo is unhinged and it's not like that's past him he is unhinged he did some unhinged shit his personal behavior is off the rails he he does a really good job at acting like a crazy person it's kind of amazing he's still inactive duty to be honest it's considered one of our complaints for the show is that there's no way that they should just let him walk around and do stuff with how he's especially because he died and his corpse was profited by an ai yeah when he because it's funny it's funny that ackerson is presented as basically saying like that he's the bad guy in the things that he's saying but like when he says you so you interacted with mackey and that's putting it lightly you had cortana in your brain you you are not presenting me with any evidence for your claims even though he should have the evidence but again that feels like more of a plot problem than it unless it's a character he's claiming to see her we have a camera like from ackerson's perspective he's just presenting things like would he says if you were in my shoes would you trust you and it's like that's a good fucking point because no he is not trustworthy he's unreliable like nina reminds you that in season one he he tried to melt halsey he like locked her in a nation room to radio you know and bomb her with radioactiveness so that she would melt it's like he's crazy he's a crazy guy um he constantly breaks the channel command he goes like he goes on unsanctioned missions um he never like steals equipment yeah he recruits artans into doing shit constantly bullies riz he's like black changes you would go against all the people that are trying to blow up reach yeah but that seems crazy what our point is did we listening to the points that we were raising there he's acting like a crazy person yes he's acting like a crazy person is 10 times crazier from kai's perspective he is acting like a really crazy person which will inform her decision whatever about kai right that's what this conversation is about we're talking about we're talking about like uh what she has reason to believe and it's like so from kai's perspective in season three in episode three which is basically when she decides to work with our ackerson it's like well what information do we have we have that john halo lied to the entire team to bring them on an unsanctioned mission that yeah sure everything about it is strange but it's like you lied that's already not good for us we had a training exercise earlier where riz despite being very injured john halo like irrationally pushed her to the point that she nearly died in the training exercise and then of course you you included that she said he said i saw makin it's like well i shot her like so i know that's dead people add all the add all that together and the fact that kai has absolutely no reason to believe that the unse and only would concoct such an insane plan from her perspective it's like sure there were more questions for her to ask but like john halo is unhinged yeah he could have done a way better job of achieving his goals if he truly believes what's happening is that instead of becoming a crazy zombie i think this massively muddies the themes of just follow orders because kai was not just following orders in going against uh john halo john halo is her superior giving her orders that she didn't believe in she used her own brain with the information that she had available to form a conclusion she was wrong and she admits that she was wrong but like she wasn't just following orders it would have been just following orders to follow john halo to the end when his rationale wasn't making sense to her like this is what i mean when i say it's like it's really like muddy on the thematic side and then he's like carl urban and doom to add further problems to the net when you think about uh the nature of the expectation of the covenant invading reach um it should have been a foregone conclusion they were going to invade reach because in season one mackey escaped from reach on a covenant phantom so she would they would assume they would have to have assumed that she told uh the prophets where reach was and that it was inevitable that they would be coming there not that it was inevitable that they had found reach and were doing crazy stuff and it meant that the covenant fleet was going to be coming but that it was inevitable they were just going to be on their way and soon um and so that just creates new plot problems of like well the world isn't reacting and responding to this information but that's not like a kai problem she's in a very unique position where there's only so much that she can do as one individual in a broader you know uh machine like kai's got problems for sure but like i find it weird to create a dichotomy where like she's doomed and john hail was fine like i don't i just don't see that working at all okay um sure i'll i'll give you that one kai had reason to believe i guess that the person she grew up with was insane but well it sounds like he had well i mean he had he just had had so much he had so much hard evidence i just don't i mean well go to all the events we just referenced right like i would be worried about him i have to say the least and yeah the i like coming up with these these ideas as to to explain a bunch of things that are just outside of her even reasonable worldview uh yeah he could have done a way better job of getting his certainly don't you think it's because otherwise there wouldn't be like the retard the retard storyline but it's their retarded storyline yeah okay there everything's right i agree it makes sense the body i think it's on that a person basically tells her that master she's crazy right he's like yeah no explanation no i i i agree but that's like a but like surely you would accept that that like why why why why is it not of massive consequence that one john halo now sees dead people which is really fucking bizarre um two that he lied to his entire team instead of telling them the truth so that they could go on a mission like that's a big breach of trust that's obviously gonna have an impact and that when he can't present any evidence he doesn't present his camera which i would see is more of a plot problem but maybe it's a character problem if he's forgotten that he has a helmet camera that records things when he shows the flight plan and he screams they changed this like well i mean i'm look how no they do in season one we see a helmet cam in episode one where he went to madrigal and like retrieve the forerunner artifact the keystone we see a camera they got cameras so season two but yeah uninstalled one and season one season one yeah yeah they show that they have a helmet camera yep so he was good he was gonna go from mexican girls so he whether they go with the writers the writers forgot about it i just forgot about them allow them to make the plot happen saying there aren't any cameras because the writers forgot them then no i'm saying that's a plot hole that's a plot yeah um that he has cameras and that's evidence that he should be aware of and that only and i the unse should be aware of and exist and they just pretend it doesn't exist because otherwise this story wouldn't happen it's just a plot hole yeah good old plot holes in halo yeah i know that's crazy it means they don't exist in season two because they are what i don't understand what you mean when you say like it doesn't exist and what do you what do you mean a plot hole isn't a solution to the problem it is a problem it is a problem the problem is but it doesn't erase the fact that they don't exist well no but i because they're gone because of the plot hole well what i mean is well the way that i would look at it is you establish that they have the cameras and then you forgot about them not that they disappeared from they don't do that i they did forget about them what do you mean they did forget about them but they don't ever in any point reference them no i know they don't that's what i'm saying that's that's what i'm saying that's what the the hole is is that the camera i'm not saying they made up i'm so confused getting these things they it's i know because it's a plot hole i understand that all right it wasn't a plot hole they would have done all those things but they the writers forgot but they forgot so they just don't exist in the season following now you're saying they don't exist because the writers forgot to put them in i understand it's just semantics like they could they could come back into existence i don't see what the point is of the distinction well so what what would the conclusion be from that then from yeah therefore i think you would analyze the story like what's the conclusion from a writing standpoint there that they were trying to create even more conflict or more of a reason to make john look like you know insane i i guess what i would say is the conclusion there is you got to you got to pick a poison of some kind which is either the the john halo forgot that he had a camera for which he could present evidence just out of curiosity i'm all i'm all interested in the theory at this point so would that not apply episode to episode and scene to scene as in even moment to moment as in like if they established they were working in episode one but they weren't around and all referenced in episode two couldn't i just say yeah that they're not in episode two uh no that would well i mean if they don't address them at all that would be very very very strange after episode one but if they don't show up at all well i just mean kind of use the same logic you are as in they're not in episode two but they're in episode one and three well like the reason why the reason why uh kai mistrust john halo is because of stuff that happened between season two and three that put her in a position where that's how she felt as a character because that's what we see happen you know that's the event that takes place so we have to move forward from there yeah you know like because if if like a jet i needs to get through a door that's tough and we're like why didn't use his lightsaber and it's like they just did they forgot he had it in that scene that still makes it a problem for that character that they didn't decide to use it you wouldn't say yeah but he doesn't have it because the writers forgot it you like no he does have it it's there he didn't use it that's what that is now thanks to the writers fucking up and in the case of this it would be the cameras why that i think we're just kind of viewing this um entirely differently like you're you guys are approaching it from this is the universe this is where these things exist these things do exist in this universe they should exist in this universe i'm looking at it from the perspective that if the writer doesn't put it in there but they did in season one they did in the first they did but if they don't in the second season yeah but like i said so if we go scene by scene can we make the same argument it's the same continuity how do you mean well i mean you kind of make the same argument you if you look at it from a perspective of you can't assume that any piece of equipment exists because it's implied that it should exist we're not even saying it should in the sense of any other thing than they told us it does it's it's kind of like um writing for the writers i guess you know you shouldn't imply that something exists or work off the audience if i if i can throw something in here i wonder if er what you're getting at is like in with the production of season two and new show runners the show runners might have decided you know what we're not going to do video cameras in the helmets for this one well then then you have to be acknowledged yeah yeah that's what we're saying it's a changing can or a changing continuity needs to be addressed because that's a huge that's a pretty big change that would that like that's a plot affecting change that needs to be addressed mr chief just right but i'm just wondering if i'm just wondering if that's a way of clarifying what er is thinking about this matter well i guess that brings it back to all this question of like well couldn't you go scene by scene then new scene or new episode new new director for that new director i mean you could i think so uh but i mean well i think an episode director is different than a series showrunner right i mean the latter is a much more radical i think it should be clear the split between season one and two is a meta one it isn't i'm down with this i'm down with this right can't assume that any thing is in a scene unless it's explicitly said to be in that scene so like you can't assume that master chief has an energy sword unless he's shown picking up the energy sword well there's i'm there's limits to that well there's there's limits to that right because they don't have the time to explain everything that's in that make the argument i was shown that he had a camera in his suit that looks the same as the suit that he had in season one therefore he has i feel like this show understands what we're talking about only sometimes just like ryan johnson for example if he had come to fight arbiter without showing us his gun had been damaged we'd be like where the fuck was his gun and they knew that that's why they showed it damage to a town yeah and then you can go even broader than that like they felt compelled to tell us that madrigal got destroyed because if they didn't tell us we would be lost just like wait why is quiet what happened that there's a there's a degree to which the writers understand well you've got to show people i mean it's the same it's just like general filmmaking continuity right you need to show if you're going to show a character moving in a certain direction so that a character can understand like where they're going or if it was like we're getting tied up in the same kind of conversation where someone says we don't need to see them drive to a location you know to know that they got to that location it feels the same here of like would you show me a camera once in a in a suit and that's the same suit that's the same continuity what season it is to be able to benefit from the continuity of season one which this season does they have to also take everything from season one they can't pick and choose exactly and 99 percent of the things that are implied to exist logically we would agree on there's a there's a actually a very very thick line of agreement that we can all you know accept to the point where we don't even think about it or talk about it whether it's internal organs pants underwear you know adjacent rooms ceilings you know pieces of furniture like all that stuff is implied to be there and there's no there's never even any discussion about it because it's accepted so easily and logically well and i think this is especially critical because it would have been brought in as a thing to help them achieve something else at the time and now it's being ignored to prevent relevant i agree that it's a problem it they should have had just had a line that said that only destroyed the evidence at some point uh i mean only disable the cameras on the on the same yeah that's one way to create the thing is i'd say that creates new problems for them because then john would be like why do i not have my camera here kai we don't have my camera yeah but they can they can they can write that you say john you forgot to turn your camera on you can do that you could say that the camera systems have to be recycled it's a solvable problem obviously they resolve like the the software is fucked on the cameras or something you can make some note right you can come up with something that's more i guess i'm saying is that you will create changes because i imagine that would be a piece of information where kai would go that's weird that is a hum also that i actually think that would be good in terms of giving her reason to start to investigate you know that's a little suspicious that's a little strange yeah and you could have made it way stronger not having a pothole remove cameras and then you know and then she's trying to convince her if he was well written he could be like you really think all of our cameras just happen to have software glitches is that what you think yeah exactly it's um there are definitely ways to get it to fix it but this is kind of what i mean is like the show the way that it is right now it's like well that's just a big problem and like in the absence of solving a lot of these problems you end up making so that your theme gets very confused because like i just don't see how kai being the just follow orders person like it doesn't really work well when she has reasons that she came to conclude using her own brain to uh make the decisions that she did it's like you're the one who just follows orders not like me who demands that you follow me no matter what because we grew up together like that's not she didn't just follow orders though she was ordered to say something about the chief and she knowingly lied about it to cover for his insanity exactly that's why i think it i think it doesn't work to be like yeah you're the just follow orders lady not like me who demand your loyalty to me yeah questioningly like john halo it's weird as well because john halo seems to recognize that he kind of did that with riz by just pushing her to beyond her limits that he was just making her follow orders as well but at the same time he doesn't seem to recognize how he's done that in other ways because john halo is a dumb person like john halo is a dumb dumb the fact that he got it right is not a consequence of like some really intelligent thoughtful decision making like it shouldn't justify insanity just because the person is right it's yeah like it's yeah that's a post hoc sort of like john halo would have also been right if he grabbed a gun and just started shooting everybody that that was an oni to try to solve the problem but that wouldn't have been a justified decision on his part if you reach if you reach the correct conclusion through shoddy you know reasoning you can't be like we'll see i was right all along you know that's i think like how it works something i would want to say about john halo because i think it is the most frustrating aspect about him from a writing standpoint is um my my big problem was john halo is essentially they've made him insane because it means that they can do whatever they want any crazy decision he makes anything that creates new drama because he goes over the top and does something stupid or yells at someone uh puts puts across his argument in the most stupid way possible you can always appeal to yeah but he's an unhinged lunatic discovering his emotions so you know it's just like an easy shortcut to any drama that they want at any plot point that they want because he's so unpredictable in a sense um it's boring it's lazy we were we were talking about during the viewing that a lot of the decisions seem to just hinge on how can we get the next scene to happen uh yeah pretty much and you can see with a lot of other things as well because like we've not spoken much about ackerson but like ackerson's a bit of a dumb dumb um not just because of his reach plan being insane uh but like it's even down to things like um why would ackerson be antagonistic to john halo and his first conversation when it's actively against his interest to have john halo opposed to him dramatically that doesn't help him yeah it doesn't get him anyway it will be that john halo actually did discover things that would fuck him over by getting him so aggressive but like why would you say in your first scene you know like oh well you know you you like would you trust you you're a bit of a crazy guy and that's like well that's stupid it's the same with parent goski why did she confront john halo about just follow orders you idiot it's like why do you think this would work why would you do this other than to prompt him to become uh opposed to you so that he can kick off his new plot line and not trusting you when he starts to view it through the lens of yeah well where do you want to get us which is very transparent in this show kind of it's just like fuck it becomes so obvious why any character makes any decision in any scene or says something stupid uh or acts in a way that's contrary to their interests it's like well that advances the plot i really didn't like that ackerson was supposed to be this like sympathetic villain towards the end to where it's like actually he was being fucked over one tear up so but because when you introduce that logic that it goes okay so who's fucking with parent goski then no she's just she's the bad guy okay so she that that's where the line stops the buckins there yeah she's at the top of the hierarchy i think right i mean i don't know anybody really a military commander of course what's weird on the one hand they acknowledge ackerson is not actually her subordinate but they do basically heavily imply that he basically followed her like he did what she told him to do that the reach thing was ultimately her plan yeah so i just i don't understand what the kind of what they're trying to extract from that like why is ackerson joining team halo at the end of the season um because he drama it was basically because parent goski was like let's use world war one wave tactics with the Spartan threes that's what throws them off he doesn't want the Spartan threes to die in world war one era just throw them at the enemy with no strategy or coordination at all i mean why not they made them they made the Spartan they made the Spartan threes in like a week why not use them like that i did make them in a week that's true but he was yeah i mean it's it's it's where the emphasize the nature of the wave tactics guys what happens is they get the Spartan threes to go towards the big covenant fleet and as soon as they like get there they blow them up and then she's like all right deploy wave two it's like oh okay they literally didn't even get on to any ships all right and then she's just like yeah wave two it's literally like a no man's land yeah all right wave two off you go it's insane which is weird because like we talk about this i i think we talked about this on an efap or something but there is an element that a lot of um like military fiction is very weird with and odd with but you can sort of look at the real world and you can see these very clear patterns throughout history of investing time and effort and equipment and like effort into the well-being of your soldiers just gets you better results it's should be clarified for the chatters that i'm talking about how the Spartan threes are made in a week in the show yes you wouldn't throw them away in the lore but in the show it's literally the people that escaped reach are turned into Spartan threes which was like days ago Ruiz is uh is just like a Spartan three now and i'm thinking like yeah so basically the logic of Spartan fours applied to the Spartan threes yeah we don't even see like much of any of like the experience you must have gone through to become one she just is one you're like okay she just is one she's good at it i did about a week of training because it is about a week between the fall of reach and when we get to onyx it's about a week if that yeah might even be less than that and it's like and remember these are like weird simulations that don't even comport with reality that well uh like a plasma it's not even physical training it's the vr it's like it's like getting all your soldiers to play call of duty to like train them so okay you're ready to actually fight a war now guys but they did that in the three for three halo where they said all the Spartan fours were training in vr simulations and that was the multiplayer i think but it's just like that it is just more of like man that feels like a bit of a parallel to i damn i think it might have been did you once say patrician that you thought that it might be that three four three hates od sts yes i i've i've thought that for a long time i think that three four three is somewhat envious of the game od st being more popular than most of theirs well yeah we're supposed to be the cool ones yeah not in a single orbital drop shock trooper in our both seasons of the show that we have never seen an od st and like i said the Spartan threes are basically they're worse od sts they don't have any augmentations they have regular armor that doesn't have shielding because it has to be light enough for them to wear it and they have less training than an od st because od sts is special forces um the Spartan threes are like just worse od sts they just play video games and then get thrown at ships pretty much yeah like it's which doesn't again like i don't we we could talk about it like and we talked about our ages in the last uh when we did season one but like there's there's so many easy ideas for a show of just you can have a show that's just about a squad of orbital drop shock troopers and then like master chief occasionally comes in and out of their story or it could be that od sts are like a pov character uh you have like a pov od st character in a squad as like a subplot and it's just like yeah that's some variety it'll be fun nobody will be unhappy everybody will be happy who's watching the show to see od sts but they just like forgo all of these opportunities that are just basically really easy to to get i think they're out of touch they overestimate how much players like Spartans and underestimate how much players like od sts because i feel like Spartans are too complicated a concept for people to mentally insert into whereas od sts are like yeah if i was in the setting i could be an od st you can't necessarily be a Spartan yeah well those are the things about od st and the bands are between the squad it's like ah yeah it's like a it's a group of friends you know in the middle of a war like working together against all odds yeah there's this camaraderie that comes with you know the marines and the od sts and um and it just it doesn't exist in the show it's just not present at all it is this weird reliance on no no no Spartans are the cool ones guys see we made even more of them look someone was even more someone in chat mentioned uh the od st trailer that they did the live action one we don't even need to begin to talk about how remember reach or the we are od st like trailers that are a minute long are more impactful and riveting and interesting than 17 episodes of television all right we don't need to we don't need to delve into that okay it's it's very self-evident but also kind of fascinating in that oh yeah the believe stuff from halo three that there was a lot of halos made a lot of really good commercials and ads and promotional material um it's just your commercial is a better than the television show they have better stories like down to the fact that the od st captain would bring a flag with him an od st flag and stuff it under his armor because that was the best way that he could you know honor the dead while in the middle of a war zone it's like that's that's like more subtle and more interesting character writing and basically anything we've seen in these two seasons there'd be there's a whole series of commercials for halo three that was set up to be years and years after that they'd be talking to like middle and old aged men um and it was set up to be that they were marines fighting in the events of what would be halo three and these like interviews and they would be talking about like the master chief not explicitly but you know they were talking about master chief and that would just be the commercial it was just like an interviewing an old marine you know tell us about what happened and that would be the commercial for the events of what halo three would be and it was just good it was subtle it was you know it was just it was just good and this is just very insistent that no this halo story is the good one spartans are very cool master john halo man he is amazing see obsession with turning them into superheroes and and also creating their own cringe because no does anybody like the spartan fours is anybody a fan of them and how and like spartan ops and their personalities i've seen people say they like them but i generally don't believe them one of the most cathartic moments of halo infinite is when you find dead spartan fours or like they kill them offscreen it's a grimly dark sort of thing of like i put a smile on my face well the spartan fours were just tacitly a mistake that was like one of the first mistakes three for three made with the setting was they wanted a new wave of spartans you know i always say as well something that i think is a big mistake that i almost feel like is kind of glossed over do you remember in the spartan ops cut scene how like there's a covenant like corvette carrier like that's that's fighting in space and then infinity comes out of slip space and just flies through it and blows it up i feel like that's like really indicative of like a big problem that started to happen it's like that's kind of crap though isn't it that the way that it started was that the covenant were so oppressive as an enemy force that um they were very very scary and difficult to beat to like well four years later the humanity's buildership so big that it can just plow through a covenant carrier like it's nothing i'm not just kind of ruin the stakes a bit like for yeah which meant that they had to they had to implement new like extremely esoteric threats like the didact in order to try to keep the same like threat level water and eternal in halo god oh yeah i want to fight him seven times that's real fun dude halo five existed the one of the tlj's before tlj chat all right it's the one i haven't played actually i never finished it because it was so boring i don't i don't like the prometheans as an enemy no the prometheans were awful never played it yeah the prometheans were a a bad idea the fact that like i like uh we don't need to be look right i mean honestly the the whole thing of it is there didn't need to be a new halo trilogy just like there really didn't need to be a halo tv show it's something that people wanted just almost a new sequel trilogy yeah that didn't need to be uh terminated dark fate just like they didn't need to be star trek discovery or just like they didn't need to be these stories were concluded and in the process of unconcluding a story you're just gonna fuck things up oh yeah it is we know now it is rare that you have success because i would actually stand by saying the you know alien doesn't need a sequel but then they made aliens just like oh cool damn arguably depends on who you ask like shit yeah and and but so that we have yeah terminator is another actually released solid examples there's a lot of terminator fans would say terminator one is one and done it's it's golden you don't need to touch anything else just like yeah but i like terminator two oh okay i mean if we're gonna use the star wars example you know one could argue star wars could have worked with one movie yeah um predator even though i just like a lot of the predators equals but at the same time you know i have a fondness for predator two to some extent i it's just it's just interesting to think because that's just all a different era it's all those examples are so far gone so far away i suppose what's funny is we were talking about the um the the nature of like the faithfulness because arcane is like very famously just you you would never know what you're in for by being like i'll play the game version of arcane like that's uh not even really lol at all then you have someone like the last of his tv show that's like it takes it stays on the rails but goes off every once in a while uh and they say it's like parallel rails because uh joel isn't quite joel ali isn't quite ali but that like it's close enough and there's a lot of big payoffs that they just take one for one and adapted pretty like close we've got all these examples of like different levels of faithfulness and different executions and different expectations but uh halo is funnily enough one that i think is just such a startlingly fucking abysmal attempt in almost every way you could imagine we've talked about it before and i'd want to reiterate it because i it feels like um there are some very distinct eras of video game adaptations the one that we were in for i guess like 20 or so years was um they were very embarrassed to even be like video game adaptations they didn't recognize how much people value video games they didn't recognize how popular they were and so you saw a lot of adaptations that were in name only but was so different that they often be like completely unrecognizable unrecognizable to the point that they barely even had any of the iconography or the music or anything and like what we've seen especially over the last few years and it feels like sonic the hedgehog kind of marks the beginning of this era funnily enough that you begin with that film being very obviously of the old era of they were they didn't even think it would be worthwhile to make sonic look like sonic and then they realize oh that's a bad idea it's a good idea to make him look like sonic and then you see that transition now obviously means that that film still kind of is in both worlds i feel like the new mortal combat was kind of in a similar place as well of sort of being in both worlds of like where the characters kind of look like the characters but there are still changes like the fact that you have that insert character because they felt that they couldn't have a be like on the cage or anything but now we're firmly in the era of at the very least they're going to look like the thing that you recognize they're probably going to sound like the thing that you recognize and fingers crossed you're actually going to start to capture the spirit of the games because they're no longer embarrassed about doing video game adaptations not only are they not embarrassed they finally realize there was so much money to be made in doing it and you lose nothing by trying to at the very least get the surface level things right and so then you can see it reflected in i've only seen the first episode of fallout didn't really like it but like it certainly looks like fallout in a in a lot of ways obviously like the mario movie definitely trying to capture the art style like sonic that chock too felt like it was moving more in that direction on the note of mortal combat specifically right like capturing the spirit i would argue is the number one thing that all fans actually want it's just that we i think it's and this is reasonable we'd all slightly disagree on what capturing the spirit of a particular ip even is the nature with the model combat like having that main character was just like what the fuck you doing like this is model combat if anything we would have been happy if kano were the main character instead of that guy exactly even though it doesn't make sense from like a fans point of view but the fact that we've got karl urb and johnny cage is going to be in the next one like oh god that could work so well it could also fail but that could work so well exactly um and it's like they're starting to realize that and then you see a whole bunch of permutations of uh what it means to be faithful because even though we're saying like arcane uh you know if you looked at league of legends it would be it'd be like wow okay that seems different but it's like yeah but they're still they've got the characters they've got things that they carried over like references and nods and pulling from the world building and clearly coming from a place of respect and what you see with halo very much feels like the end of the last era slightly bleeding into the new one yeah like i haven't got the message yet pretty much like you've got the suits of armor you've got like assault rifles and battle rifles and you've got grunts and elites and stuff like that you've barely gotten the surface level thing in in certain scenes to make it look like halo but you are you don't give a fuck you don't respect it you don't value it at all it's a vehicle for you to tell your own story because you're embarrassed that it's a video game yeah it's the caring without caring in that there are some people you could tell some people care but they seem to be in the minority um i think uh probably the great microcosm of all of this is that the show knows that we should have battle rifles we need to have battle rifles that look like battle rifles with the scopes and the you know the carry handle sort of design they have going they know to have the battle rifles to have them prominently they're automatic rifles in the show though they're not reversed so it's one of those like you knew to do everything except like the most iconic thing about them or you just passed it off to the person like all the prop guys really gave a shit but then when they passed it off to the director and the vfx people and everything they didn't it didn't get translated into it being a a burst fire weapon i gotta say if you watched the behind the scenes stuff talking about making the show it's a little grim because the prop guys and and like there are a lot of people on the crew who but there was a clip where a guy was talking about he he put more thought into explaining why sorenson kessler's like master chief helmet the way that he created it then was put into the writing of the show he's like yeah so this is like a this is based on a pilot's helmet in the show uh and they're orange so we needed to have like an orange hue coming through even though it was painted green it's like dude like look at all this effort that you're putting into like creating all of these props and making all the guns and stuff that look great and it's how did you love this man on set get him out of here how did you get in here it's like there's a lot of work that clearly goes into it all but like if the script failed you there's that's it like that's that's it you know you can appreciate all of the work that goes into the props and the sets and the effort even though a lot of visual effects are really wonky but obviously a lot of time got put into it but it's like yeah your core is soulless there is and and a really good if they had if we had this level of writing stories and characters but it was in a show that had a lot that was just dripping with good references from the games we had a lot of variety in terms of the way that the aliens looked the weapons that they used we had accurate sound effects to the games if it was like dressed to the nines and all of that stuff and then on top of that just the fight scenes were well choreographed and shot really well and shot interesting and the first person view on the uh i like the helmet was really well done it would buy so much goodwill to the show even if the show was written as shittily as it is but they couldn't even get the you know like the aesthetic and the flavor stuff almost like they just refuse to do it is what it is it's a refusal to do it because they could have just done it all the games are right there it's all for the taking you have the rights to it you just chose not to use it it was a choice a clear example of refusing to even use it the soundtrack i cannot believe i can't believe that the music in this show is what it is i can't believe that forgettable i couldn't i couldn't tell you oh yeah there was music i can barely remember the title theme and i heard it too many times it's uh it's crazy to me that you have you know i gush over it all the time i'm gonna do it again i love uh the sound tracks that marty o'donnell composed for halo they're awesome they're like some of my favorite tracks in general not just for video games but in general i love it i love the tone that's conveyed i love the disparate nature of the music yet how it somehow manages to have a level of consistency and a unified vision i love the cheer tracks i love the epic tracks the ambient tracks i love the motifs that get carried throughout the games halo 3 being like sort of a best of compilation of all of the songs the fact that odst manages to create a very distinctive feel for itself with all of its jazz saxophone like lots of emphasis on piano halo reach creating an own its own identity for itself its own kind of like iconic uh choir and monks even though it's a different thing and it's awesome and it's like you could have just you could have just taken the tracks i just plopped them in you know the timeline like while they were editing it together and it would have been fine but it's almost like there was this refusal to not even like it has to be the most generic uh sci-fi tv show music imaginable there is not there's not a single memorable track across all two seasons yeah there literally isn't i can't remember any of the halo of like whenever they occasionally feel like using a halo song which is a fucking rare that they even like use a halo song i think maybe i think there may be four or five instances of them actually using like halo music and it's always a terrible yeah um yeah very little resemblance to the the game scores that's for sure and that includes season one and this the music for season one was done by Sean Calary who is famous for his work scoring 24 which i'm a i'm a i'm a huge fan of his work i think i thought he did an excellent job with 24 but i have to admit that his style doesn't really fit halo and there's there's certainly no kind of memorable melodies that were built by Sean Calary or this new uh crew that's working on season two like the bare mccleary did the theme and then he had his production team do the sort of generic score episode to episode um well so yeah and just none of it is resembled to games you see it in the efap tv when it eventually comes out when we were watching like episode one has um it has like so what you'll notice is season one and two actually have a different intro music um the intro music in season one is basically unrecognizable as being inspired by halo aside from essentially like the most basic uh like piece of melody and then it does you gotta remember they don't even have the proper like monks they don't have the same choir it's like that halo four choir where it's like a different it's just a totally different sound it's different yeah with its own little theme where they're like that's like their theme for the show and it sucks uh or rather it doesn't suck it's just lame that would be the better way to put it season two they actually like do the halo two uh rendition of the halo theme where they've got like the higher uh vocals coming in midway but the problem is that because it's rushed and condensed it doesn't sound as good you've condensed something that lasts maybe like 40 seconds into 15 20 seconds and it messes with the composition and then it just goes back into being more generic like halo music um or like a generic um a generic uh rendition of the halo music it really it bugs me so much because halo's got so many cool tracks and it's like it's easy yeah it's so easy like and it would be so epic you know like if you used any of that could you and and and i just don't see how do you you would earn it maybe have pissed people off but if you just use the epilogue music from a halo reach like after van it got killed that people would probably like that a lot uh they'd probably be like that's a cool callback it's a great song and it's just like that's easy you could just plop it in there and people would like it when you think they'd have a custom track for the final fight with uh chief and after you think they would yeah and you think it would play into the scene huge before the fight starts like the music would be booming just before we get into it i can imagine just using like unyielding from halo two like just use that as like the fight music people would probably think that was cool as shit but instead they decided not to do that it's just like i i just don't get it it's easy it's easy and it requires like less work i don't get it it's it's whereas i i definitely got the impression in season one i will say i feel like in season two i even got less of an impression of the music oddly enough uh season one had like some very mass effect kind of like knockoff mass effect sounding music i noticed that a little bit more in season two as well kind of like um more synthy uh like more of like the kind of synth that you would hear in like uncharted worlds um right but not as good because uncharted it's interesting that you bring up that song specifically because i think i mentioned it to you and you called it before i even was able to say that specifically but we were playing hell divers too and the mission select music on hell divers too i was like fringy what music does this remind you of and you're like oh yeah uncharted worlds is like yeah this is clear i think that this was like inspired by it in a way that's distinctly different but still kind of harkens back to it and so that's sort of like the inverse of taking something and using it as inspiration whereas there is well let's put it this way rings of power soundtrack is more like memorable than it is more memorable than rings of power is barely memorable i remember a couple of tracks from rings of power a couple as a fun fact there's a song in odsd soundtrack that isn't in the album version that also sounds like uncharted worlds um you hear it in the fire fight i would if i heard it i would know what you mean if i if i heard it um if you know what it is put a link in here because i bet if i heard it i would know what you mean i don't know if it's on youtube but i'll try to find it okay i got you it's uh there's so many good tracks and and it's that it's not a matter of yeah but that wouldn't fit it's like dude that it's like they cover basically anything that you could want there's a meant well like covered in dance you know that's like a funky track we're friends like that kind of thing yeah what you said there by saying the halo music wouldn't fit our halo show already you're like well wait wait what isn't that already like isn't that the the big yellow potentially red flag that goes yellow flag like what what do you mean the the the incredible memorable arguably best soundtrack of a video game series ever in history so far it's not fitting the you know the the show adaptation of it how could how could that be that's an interesting thing to think about for as much as it would be easy to incorporate a lot of the music in there the reality is that it wouldn't be achieving the the purpose of what that music did and what music is supposed to achieve which is it accentuates the moment as it is and makes that moment memorable and to a place where the music can be intertwined with that memory rather than you hear it and you think of the thing that you like uh like oh yeah that reminds me of that that that moment in halo that i really liked like if it was like this is the hour for instance and i played it here i i just immediately be thinking about the actual scene in like halo three where all of the ships are flying in uh like to the uh to the excavation side on earth like the portal to the ark i'd be thinking of that or if they had wake me when you need me whatever the context would be for that i'd just be thinking about the ending of halo three um or like if i was thinking about um uh damn it i can't believe that it's escaping me right now oh undercover of night like it's uh you know i'd just be thinking of uh i'd just be thinking of the level it's just like yep that's unfortunate but you isn't that what you want though in an adaptation i guess what i'm getting at is that um in a good adaptation you would be able to be happy that it exists as a great track that reminds you of the thing that you love but also that it could be now attached to a new memory rather than you see it and then you're like oh shit that just makes me think of this other thing that i like but at the same time i don't see that you lose anything by just having these tracks in the show anywhere rather than convert i would mention um eric nylen's halo novels uh having played the games the games are similar to the visual storytelling that he does in his writing and so having played the games you get kind of a reference to know what he's talking about and then you can kind of build on that your understanding of it and i think that's an example of an adaptation where referencing the thing that it's adapting builds positive associations and has yeah i think absolutely by playing the games and then reading the books was it it was like yes this is the kind of book that it's what we it's a book series that we reference a decent amount not just for you know good you know good books to read that are science fiction but like video game yeah kind of action books they're just it's good young adult military science fiction it's not something that i think really stands up to like oh yeah i'm in my 30s and i'm gonna read this but i do think that like if you want to get young people into it and they were into halo then those would be good books to get them into yeah i think if you're a legit fan of halo the books do the books are good you know they do them justice in a way um they offer a different but very clearly halo experience obviously the games don't rely on the books and the books really don't rely on the games either that's true you could read they work together but they are standalone it's different to what happened other 343 where like reading the books became essential required uh homework to understand uh like if you if you jumped into halo five without reading like halo escalation or any of these books it's like yeah good luck like that's weird too because the first five halos they did not have complicated stories they were not like you don't have to you don't have to bring up the cork board with the lines and the yarn and the thing it's just no it's just they're well executed fairly simple ideas that are just they're just done well i think uh i think the the strength of the games was it's it's you think of it like an iceberg right of on its face it presents a really entertaining straightforward fun story but that there's a lot that you can extract from just the world building the environment design the music uh a desire to look into things further terminals and things like that that there was just like it was clear that there was a lot under the surface that was supporting this and you can kind of go in whatever direction you wanted in terms of how much that meant to you or how much that mattered uh and and that's like a good way to make something that's really accessible but also has like a lot to uh delve into for people who are really interested rather than being in a place where you have to be immersed in it so much to the detriment or the exclusion of other stories other media it's the gameplay of halo is more than just uh it's one of the reasons why it lingers so much and people's consciousness is that yeah like there's been plenty of really fun shooters over the years they're they're very very many fun shooters but it's the shooting element that helps to you know it it's got the characters you know them being distinct it's got the world and the designs of everything it's all it all goes together and those other elements that aren't necessarily the aren't necessarily the gameplay those are the those are the reasons why we're talking about it you know 20 years after the fact well not so sad fate for halo is that it seems to just be fading away slowly stripped away of everything very stylish i think i think it's just a victim of the uh streaming gold rush where every media company was trying to set up a streaming service and get as many ip's as they could on their exclusive service and so they just rubber stamped a halo show and then this is what this is the output product i don't think paramount particularly cared very much about the quality of what they were making or what they're what they were having made it's it's interesting that you say that because uh this show went through development hell it was announced in 2013 by steven spielberg at the xbox one reveal is this that's where the show is tied to this project yes steven spielberg is uh amblin entertainment production yeah that's right if steven spielberg is attached to the show in some capacity so it actually took them over and it was meant to be on showtime uh before it uh ended up shifting to paramount plus i think that was i so i thought the steven spielberg thing had just like died in production hell and this was something different that's this this is it this is the this is the product of that how do you work on something like this for a decade and come out with this i i do i will say i kind of find it funny that the the kind of like the endpoint of the destruct even though you know it's like you said it's kind of fading away but what feels like kind of a culmination of the destruction of halo began at the event that destroyed xboxes are like reputation in a way that they still haven't recovered from i feel this is like that's something poetic there it's so yeah it's not just awful entries that destroy everything it's also mediocre shit the you know some people think is fine or good enough like uh any franchise that used to be on top i was talking about this with um alien predator terminator Jurassic park all of these franchises that we're starting to enter an era it seems with romulus uh frozen empire even fucking whatever happens a drastic as an ip next and probably with the next terminator they'll do the safest thing possible kind of okayish but kind of badly and that that's its fate it's going to become a consumable like vending machine franchise that every once in a while just pop it out and go yeah and then it's like crazy how long this is like you're like simpsons it's just like a round it's like you understand what this used to be at one point does anyone you know we're the old people in the fucking rocking chairs like back in my day it was actually good and it's like it is good it's like you know it used to be fucking great an old man is talking i know that reference well that's the thing right like in the universe where we had the turnip tree with the turnip juice for our lemonade it's it's it's an alternative thing to the like tlj's that's a different sector it's like these other things where you're just like oh i guess that came out and now it's had this effect on because you know like infinite wasn't um wasn't like the tlj of halo or anything was it it was just it just sort of disappeared well as much as i say that uh halo five is the tlj of halo it's like well on a campaign front sure but like you know multiplayer was fun and it's kind of the interesting thing with like halo is it's almost like it takes a few months for it to sort of settle into the conclusions about it and every time it's not being like a complete absolute like 100 through and through disaster it's always just been there's been a lot that's like to be said that's wrong with it um and it's almost like uh it because it takes so long to catch up it's like 343 can never learn the right lesson just in time uh halo four they got a lot of smoke blown up they were asked by the gaming press for halo four despite the fact that uh multiplayer died very quickly uh mcc was pretty miserable mcc obviously massive disaster that was just a clear failure but even then it's like a failure tins with yeah but these are games that you like uh halo five uh you know it had like it's it's certain campaigns sucked multiplayer was really fun but it was a very different kind of experience than what most people would have wanted from halo and obviously infinite's problems are pretty well known like mostly yeah it was like mostly solid base gameplay but everything surrounding it was bad so and then it did not arrive complete you gotta stop fucking doing that you can't do that anymore it's just if you hopefully less than we're learned hopefully yeah hopefully but uh but yeah now it leaves halo like with this show it's like there there is a level to which the destruction is complete but at the same time the series is gonna continue as for whether this show continues as the question mark for sure i hope not i hope it just ends and dies here um i hope that they i mean ideally what they do is another game comes out they actually like release it as a finished fucking product they don't have 20 white armor skins and bullshit like that hopefully like hopefully it'll be like the hell divers teaches everyone a lesson well it's funny you brought that up because i was gonna bring up hell divers the halo fans were very much trying to make hell divers kind of about them and that was that was kind of just like the final blow for me where it's like i don't think i could ever call myself a halo fan again like yeah i think it's just it's hell divers time now like halo died it halo needs to it needs to have the lat it needs to have a hurrah or it will be done halo there is still clearly there is interest in halo i don't think there's a team that can bring it back though is the problem that's the that's the thing like what do you do who do you and i honestly i honestly don't even know if there's actually that much interest in it in in bringing it back well i think that microsoft is uh microsoft is very attached to halo they've said frequently that they essentially believe that halo is like really important in terms of maintaining xbox but maybe that's the delusion maybe xbox needs to get to a place where they can refresh and have new things that people get excited about rather than clinging to the idea that like halo forza and gears is where they're gonna find salvation as well start start they were they tried to buy starfield as their new like flagship flagship ip that was gonna carry them and that fell through too it's almost like there's a recurring party in the story of microsoft uh game studio projects that is causing these issues well i guess now they're probably looking to like kola judy is going to be really useful for them um but you know who fucking knows what halo is going to look like there's also a concern of where you go narratively from here in the games because i mean you did we did like the one halo ring and then there was an array of halo rings and it's like uh what now because it felt like with halo 4 it was like running dry on id probably just more reached style narratives covering various battles throughout the war universe yeah yeah but unfortunately we got this was there anything else anybody wanted to uh like throw say about uh the show um so i feel like the show missed the point that master chief was separate from humanity but still inexorably linked to humanity through this armor because uh it used to be that the armor had to be put on by other people the spartans couldn't put on their own armor and uh i think removing that elements just kind of further increases the divide between john halo and regular humans which is weird when they think that the show is meant to be about exploring his humanity yet they've made it so that he's actually pretty cosmically divorced from humanity yeah he's insane literally just if he just steals his armor and keeps it on he would be unkillable so i don't see why he ever takes it off we were talking about uh thematic earlier about like the the identity of a soldier and uh i think there's one of the issues with the show is the writers and the producers are sort of conflating these two ideas of dichotomy where you have like because there is the the the duality of a soldier's mind uh and like all the best war movies explore that it's like full metal jacket you have the guy with the helmet the peace symbol on one side born to kill run on the other uh i think the halo um writers are confusing that dichotomy with the idea of uh john as a person and chief as a separate person but there's no duality there they are one in the same yeah and uh they they're they're mixing those two up i think and so that's why they think that you can't explore chief's humanity without taking the helmet off but the games were already doing that they were exploring that character's humanity without with while keeping the helmet on well um i'll leave it to you guys to wrap that up i've got a call i need to head on out uh so we're sort of reaching the terminus of this discussion but um for me i hated the show i hope there's not a season three i don't think this show will have any lasting impact other than being just another on the big pile of bad examples of what not to do i don't think it will garner any passionate fanbase it will just disappear into the mist of history and people will occasionally go oh yeah that's right there were those seasons of that terrible tv show huh yeah that'll that'll be its legacy that's about it yep all right i gotta head out uh thanks everyone for showing up and talking about halo season two fringy was uh sort of the tip of the spear in this discussion poor lad had to watch a lot of halo show content for this so i'm glad we were able to give it the the best most thorough discussion probably on the internet so there you go there we go all right i will catch y'all later i will see you to live later man bye bye later uh i still want to yeah like if anybody still had uh anything that was sort of on their mind about the show if they wanted to chat about it more than happy to do that it was bad the that thing about confusing dichotomies was my thing and i think yeah the one of the one of the core problems with the show i agree uh it's it's i think um i think what i've noticed about the attitude that both the writers of this show and 343 seem to have is that um like halo as presented in the bungee games that don't believe like the conflict there is interesting enough to carry uh the series like it's not interesting enough to be absorbed in this world with the unsc and the covenant and the flood and the forerunners in the backdrop uh that the human covenant war or the reveal of the flood and having to deal with that and then learning about the monitors or like grave mind or anything like that that having uh master chief be the vehicle for the player and potentially in an adaptation or further games uh the viewer to um like participate and interact with this world that that's not enough to carry it that you need to you need to create like the ah well he's got the inner turmoil that he's grappling with the is he even a human and what does it mean to be a soldier and questioning orders and questioning authority and stuff like that that they they feel like they have to do it because i don't think that master chief is interesting enough on his own or that they don't believe that you can have a static character be the lead of a story or that you can't focus in on the external conflict uh as like driving uh potentially other characters to be more dynamic characters like the arbiter or something that you had to create the inner conflict and turmoil and john halo otherwise it wouldn't be worthwhile i definitely got that sense and it's um i think i think it's misguided i think it's um i think it's the same kind of misguided that makes people not realize you can have static characters who are still very compelling and interesting um it in in response to that desire they created somebody who is so unpredictable so on him so like unsure of himself that he's pretty incomprehensible uh which is worse than creating somebody like master chief who i used to think was impossible to misunderstand but apparently that has happened uh with uh some people that they actually think he is a robot and not that he has a personality or that he cares about people so right do you are you guys terribly familiar with what's been going on with star trek in the modern day not hugely i've got like a tangential set of knowledge thanks to a real bbc but no yes no yes no is that like Picard and discovery are those two active ones okay yeah um there was a plot line back in the day in deep space nine about an organization called section 31 it was a sort of black ops organization that kind of went against the morals of the federation but made sense that would exist uh they they were extremely clandestined in their operations and trying to further the interest of humanity even though uh humanity was supposed to be above having that kind of uh intelligence service and uh it feels it's only like three or four episodes it's mostly just a side plot for dr basher to kind of explore some of his character and it feels like the writers of the new stuff when they were watching the old stuff really latched onto that idea and wanted to like make their entire show about this section 31 premise and it feels like the same thing with the halo show it feels like they went through the halo media and found this thing that they wanted to hone in on and this dumb edgy topic of like uh the child their child soldiers and what what do they feel about that instead of focusing on what is actually the core theme of what they're adapting in star trek's case it's about humanity overcoming petty differences between people and kind of working together for a better future in halo's case it's about a guy in green armor that goes around shooting aliens i mean halo's about more than that but that's kind of my point is that it seems to be a recurring problem on paramount that they take away the wrong message from what they're adapting and end up making something darker and edgier for no reason um i i wonder if i'd say that that's like a paramount problem or if that's just like a problem that's being pretty persistent in a lot of uh a lot of these like kind of adaptations lately of just like kind of misunderstanding what it is that people like but then it doesn't help when like john halo doing the thing where the elite charges at him and then he ducks and shoots him with a shotgun that like that made people happy doesn't help uh in conveying like what people actually or maybe it doesn't help in terms of it sends mixed messages compared to what i like about halo which isn't just john like master chief being not afraid of anything and being super cool like that's one thing but there's like a lot of things i really like about it that are not captured in the show at all beyond like everything that we really talked about i really i really hate um what they've done to like the forerunners as an element i kind of like adore the idea of the forerunners as an element in halo like that you can go to this place that's like this natural like natural beauty meets like far flung science fiction futuristic tech that hides like a a deep person like a hidden secret in a dark backstory um like that's super cool there's a lot of mystery in all like an image that stands out to me as a it's when uh it's when guilty spark takes a master chief back to the control room and he's walking towards a control panel with like a big sweeping shot of the interior and it's like dude this is awesome and like i feel like i get none of this in this show of just like being struck by the pure aura and majesty of like this universe and and the forerunners it's it's like they're the camera zoomed in two times and you really want them to just zoom it the fuck out so you can see what's going on yeah exactly but that even like somehow transcends into the writing where you just wish that they would stop and zoom out so you could see the bigger picture exactly i mean you can i think um i i definitely come away with the perspective that john halo is astoundingly selfish and i think one of the big reasons why it's just there is too little attention in his dialogue and his conversations with people and really a lot of people's conversations with everybody about the human covenant war it's just that will often fact like episode five which is right after he wakes up after the fall of reach he has a conversation with halsey about what she did to him before he's like wait what happened to reach and it's like dude that doesn't like you can protest like we got to go back and help it's like yeah but that feels hollow when you just spent the last like five minutes and the first five minutes of you being awake talking about yourself uh but you know what happened it's like you said they've zoomed in too much they're like so zoomed in on this handful of characters that uh they've brought a conflict is lost to the background it's like a blur that occasionally comes into focus when they zoom out just a little bit well that's me that's me satisfied yep this show was uh pretty bad pretty bad how many thoughts there we are on the show uh it was uh a waste of time yes it was a waste of a waste of it's a waste of uh the people who's made it time it was a waste of our time it's a waste of your time for watching this yes just it is grim i hate it um the introduction of the flood was the only mildly interesting thing for me in this season but and i actually would prefer if they just postponed it to season three and have the flood be revealed within halo somewhere and like yeah that just feels like more semantically appropriate as a pandora's box story now it just feels like there's nothing special in the belly of halo that it's like why are we even i don't even care about exploring halo it's like we already know the floods out there it's wreaking havoc on onyx or whatever like why are we even doing the halo thing anymore you know like well you have to find out what a great quote why are we even doing the halo who's betting that uh season three will be a thing and who's betting it won't i am leading so what the fact that we haven't heard anything yet uh after at this point i think three weeks since it ended makes me wonder i'll throw out a uh yes but reduced budget like uh final chance my answer would actually be i think that the most likely thing is season three but it's the end you gotta wrap it up this is it we'll let you finish it but that we're done yeah i'm going with absolutely that there will absolutely be a third yeah i mean they they get they get the views from these things brand name on a streaming service that's that's the great our only salvation is a paramount plus just dies it seems 50 50 to me either they just decide to cut it off or it's like okay one more wrap it up hopefully we can cash in on the fact that everybody knows this is the last season so they're gonna tune in to find out what happens i have a fully a favorite stuff in it it is not unlikely it is not unlikely that season three uh that season two will be the end that they'll cancel it i would say it's not what i would lean towards being the most likely but it's certainly not so unlikely that it's like a small percentage chance i think the fact that it has to be renewed instantly should say something i'm going to announce to keith david will be joining the voice cast for the season uh like oh no i just don't want to i don't want to see i don't want to see noble team i don't want to see real obd I don't want to see johnson i want him to be safe and cozy tucked away in their beds at night having a nice drinking cocoa yeah exactly just i don't know time i don't marshmallow novel with his little lamp on as he's sitting in his bed like i love this slippers on i have a heart to care it doesn't ruin the original thing for me if they bastardize it in the show because so I kind of want them to do like a just meme compilation how much more shit can can we reference you know how many more references can we cram into season three before we get canceled get really abstract little crazy shit yeah just like really deep lore cuts yeah I want it to end personally I don't want to anymore I can't take it hurt my soul wounds me to my core but I imagine the end of season three would be basically the end of the first game where halo blows up and chief says we're just getting started going by the pace going by the pacing of this show it would probably end in like the middle of halo three or something might actually end with them how am i they might only spend like two episodes on halo before they're already back to earth and then go into the art well I was thinking about mentioning that earlier like they don't have anything to do at halo so they might as well just go straight to the invasion of earth right yeah like I seriously it's weird that they simultaneously take a long time to get to halo yet at the same time you think about the fact that they did full of reach the flood and the spartan threes all in one season along with their own expand subplots like that's a tremendous amount to jam in to our eight episodes of television yeah so yeah I could I could see that happen I was about to say but we don't have to think about that anymore but that's not true I still got to think about it I still I'm still working on a good old you know how soon we can see some of those episodes well I think mues it was uh fairly soon right it was uh the release of the episodes we got three musketeers it'll be Wednesday then we'll have a week off on Wednesdays and then it'll start up to be pretty consistent only to be interrupted by another war movie arc which will be the following month this eight episodes yes eight tv episodes every not every oh wednesday they'll be out every wednesday um yeah but it will be consistent which is a good enjoy our suffering in real time highly edited fun on the bun yep jam packed with references uh it's uh yeah lots of fun not for us but fun for you yeah well yeah that does it for uh hallow season two I hate it yeah if that wraps up we don't recommend it I just want to make that clear just in case anyone was wondering it's not fun it's not funny bad it's not fun no no it's really boring it's for someone else why didn't you do an episode by episode breakdown it's like that would have been fucking painful going through the amount of wasting time in this the amount of just nothing happening I think it better suits for a bouncy conversation this sort of thing it's not like a marvel movie where you get reliable cringe every five seconds it's just not like it's not a madame web what a shame um in any case before we end up going patrician tv where can people find you and what are you up to uh they can find me on youtube and I'm up to the same thing I was up to last time which is working on this wow video bleed so you're gonna be shit in a little while huh uh not really because I'm talking about the vanilla era so there's a bit more bit more of a positive video from me although I do make fun of the 20 years of bad decisions that we're coming up on here this year yeah well you know it's still around right it's still hobbling along get all get all wow do you uh talk it all about I remember seeing it on twitter asman gold had a recommendation how to save wow do you uh see what he said um I don't really talk about retail so I don't really have a thing about that I was going to look into some asman gold stuff but more so to do with the classic era than what's retail I if I doubt he came up with it it's probably somebody else somebody else's idea that he's kind of just riffing on and working out of all righty then john cjg what are you up to uh john graham on youtube if i'm working on a new machinima series that's uh i'm gonna get the first episode of that out pretty soon so that's what i'm working on it's not it sounds awesome new is in brand new fresh new everything well it's a reboot of a show hard justice that I did back in the early to for mid-2000s that uh is that the one where the guy was that I like sorry the guy was in his apartment thinking about killing him so no that was a different one that one's super cringe that's that's not really hard hard justice always like the premise and characters and I thought you know I can do that better and now I'm just basically doing it again but better this time trying to we'll see all right um yeah what are you what thing you hating right now other than the American society of magical necromancy I'm still angry at uh Netflix's um uh avatar are you doing like a big thing for that very way too big thing of it I probably need to trim down quite a bit if I ever want to actually get it out but yeah that's as long as you get it out before season two arrives and then season three arrives and what are they doing in a movie a movie yeah animated movie they're doing a movie as well they're doing a sequel series at lafayette and good lots of posts recently about how good core is I've been seeing yeah you gotta cover you gotta cover the fortnite stuff too oh yeah I'll be playing I'll actually be playing that eventually sometime oh you're playing fortnite the sacrifices you make for your audience yes I know truly I'm a martyr well very exciting good stuff uh links to everyone's channels in the description myself and fringy just getting everything ready for you guys more stuff coming on the uh the old mula channel including but not limited to of course the our trek through halo who you're gonna get all of that very soon well movie r continues next week will be rebel moon 2 oh legendary film everything that's posted about it is cringe rebel moon is a film that's reliable for entertainment I would say I'm I'm not I'm not gonna lie I'm kind of looking forward to whatever he's gonna do because it's gonna be so stupid like this is the one where everything happens guys we did all the character stuff yeah it's pretty funny it's a thing about in it the scar givers at the second yeah right now this one's got loads of like I'm excited to hear that it's like funny bad I'm a little bit upset that you said okay it's like dude lightsaber come on we need some more funny bad stuff these days it's all just boring bad I just this leak make me cry laughing so if this does the same thing I'm on board well so that's interesting because army the dad made me want to die like that that that one was too much but yeah this this uh it can happen it's funny it rebel moon has an element of funny in that it like what it is and also the meta is making it really funny that this is the one that's kind of changed the perception like I'm like you know maybe Zach Snyder yeah that's great of a filmmaker at all you nailed it when we whenever fucking 10 million times we talked about this but like the there's no DC to hide behind this time there's no DC skirt that he can hide under he's he's it's been too long he has to actually stand on his own army the dead slipped by he was super fucking lucky that if that released today could you imagine my god he'd be slaughtered but luckily enough Snyder cut was a big event and it sort of it was an umbrella away from all of the noise and I'd love to know the actual engagement on army the dead he must be have they not like squirreled away that as an IP at this point like nobody gives a shit it's just funny when they wanted it to be a franchise but that's not happening but if rebel moon two is as bad or worse than rebel moon one uh his reputation is going to actually be dirt like he's going to destroy himself as an artist and there will be no amount of the director's cut will save me kind of that's no yeah oh god the Snyder cut for rebel moon wanted to put together how long is that like six seven eight hours of shit god it's going to be long yeah i'm curious mauler what what do you think saved army of the dead when it came out like why would it be a disaster at the same time too close in proximity to Snyder cut point where people weren't really they didn't care to pay attention to how bad it was it's sort of like oh i see all the Snyder cut hype right yeah a lot of people at the time who had seen it who weren't people like us who just really thought he was not very good we're like yeah i didn't really like it it was it was there but anyway you know Snyder cut that's a really interesting sort of cultural event meanwhile now right all the Snyder cuts over like there's no there's still people who are saying like oh netflix give him the money and he can continue the Snyder verse which is so funny to me that that would even be a thing he's recent yeah no thanks it's licensed out a competitive yeah a competitive ip for their their their dc like universe it's insane uh he's recently said he'd have he'd be happy to do it animated isn't it funny how that works it's like okay fine not live action but adamant no one cares about animation let me do that yeah so sad but anyway uh i'll i'll be interested to see what's going on with that we are expected to have a random film talk and little platoon with us to discuss it because they're both well versed in Snyder's isms um and yeah after that uh i'm not even sure you're a whole week i can't be expected to plan further than just a couple of days so hopefully you guys will be excited for that uh we will obviously get to all of the kind messages and donations on the catch up portion of this this stuff we sort of split them up now um and of course rags had to had to pop out it was a wonderful how long was this six hour stream not quite as long as the one we did the petition before on the never knows best that was a classic especially the ending but um that'll be it for us for now unless there's anything anyone here wants to say now i'm good well rags didn't get to share his final opinion so i'll speak for him he loved the halo tv show he couldn't get enough of it he's raising it here there and everywhere and i wouldn't stand for it i think he did enjoy it you know he was like this is better than uh like lord of the rings sort of thing is like okay you know fair enough everyone's entitled to an opinion um well all right then goodbye everyone have yourselves a wonderful day afternoon nights did that the other toodles see you later everybody bye bye bye bye bye bye bye