 traits you can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. I got surrounded by five on the police cars and around about noon rush hour and they just literally Un dweud yn ymwneud ymwneud, gan oed yn gweithio'r gwar, a ddim yn gweithio'r gwar. Felly ddim yn sayu, mae'n gweithio i'n cael wneud y gharau. Felly ddim yn gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio. Rwyf wedi cael adrygiadu. Rwyf wedi gwneud y gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio. Ond o'ch fawr, mae'n gweithio'n cael ei ddweud yn ei ddweud, mae'n ddweud yn fwyaf o'i ddweud. Mae'n dwi ddweud ei ddweud. ar draws sefyd. Felly titanium wedi gweld i mi cio'n ffordd. Fyrddwyd, fyrddwyd i mi cio'n bobl. Os ydych yn ei ddefnyddio felly wedi ffyrdd hear o yea o dwi. Felly mae'n gwestiynau'n ddelion. Dwi'n teimlo i mi sgwr a wifi o ddau y maes ac roeddwch chi'n gweld i ni i chi o ddi angen. Rydyn ni'n ymddiwch ar gyfer y lleifrwydd sy'n diwylo unrhyw o'r gwmario'i popeth. Fe oedd eu pobl fi'n amser yllai falch. Mae barasannol wedi gweld a i mi ddim i Dream Shop i gyffredig ar gyfer y llreadod, gan chi ddim yn Oeith Fyrdd, ac mae'n gŵn iawn yn hyn i mi. Fi gyd-dwy'r 10 yw. Rwy'n gofio. O! Er, mae heithio er byddai, yn ymlaen i'n gyffredig. Gweithi, yn dweud. Ymlaen i'n gyffredig, yn ymlaen i'n gyffredig, Os wedi gweithio am yr Mŵr, yn ymlaen i'n gyffredig fel ydych chi wedi ei fyddwch yn cyfyddiadhy? Mae'n amhilio ar hyn. Mae'r bwysig i ddod o'r ysgrifennu i'w ystod. Diolch i'n cael ei wneud. Rhaid i'n fudd. Rhaid i'n ffwrdd yma yw 3-4 wrth? 3 yr 5 mlynedd. Felly, mae'n cael ei wneud. Yn gweithio'r syngwys? Fynddolol. Mae'r cyflogon yn gyflawn, ond rhaid i'r cyflogon. Rhywb i'r cyflogon, allwn i'r gyffredig. Rhaid i'r cyflogon i'r cyflogon i'r cyflogon. Rhaid i'r cyflogon. Felly, rydyn ni wedi ychydig yn y Llyfrgell. Rydyn ni'n gweithio i'r ysgol. Rydyn ni'n gweithio i'r frysgol ar y broses iddynt i'r unig. Yn ym mwyaf i'r ysgol i'r ymddangos gyda'r holl. A byddwn i'r holl yn ymwysgol. Felly, mae'n rhai o gweithio ar y cyfrif yma. Rydyn ni wedi'n gweithio i'r holl yn ymddangos gyda'r holl, a rydyn ni'n gweithio i'r holl, i mwyn ar gyfer y Cyfrif Llyfrgell, Ac oedd gweld i'n cael ei wneud i ymgyrchu'i gwybod. Mae hyn rywbeth... Ac os ydych chi'n dweud... Mae'n mynd i amser a'r cyfeiriaid. Mae'r cyfeiriaid yn y ddechrau 16. Mae'r cyfeiriaid yn y cyfrifio sydd yn y par塞 o'r par gwasanaeth. Ac mae'r cyfrifio er mwyn. Mae'r cyfrifio sydd? Mae'r cyfrifio sydd yn y cyfrifio sydd yn y brif iechyd â'r rôl mewn. fel y gweithio. Mae'r tym ni'n gwybod ymddangol, yn viruses. Roeddwn i'n ddweud i ddweud. Roeddwn i ddweud i ddweud gallwn i ddweud ei ddweud a tynnu, a rwy'n ddweud o'r rai ffynnau. Dwy wedi bod yn ei ei bod yn ysgrifft arno. Roeddwn i ddweud i ddweud a ddweud i ddweud, a rydw i'n... ja, dyna'r llihau'r rai'r llihau'r llihau bod ydy'r cyffredinol yn ddweud o confer oed yn y gyfnod, oedd yn gyfnod rhywbeth ar hyn, bydd hyn yn gen i wedi'n ymgyrch yn ei fod yn gallu. Mae cefnodd wedi meddwl i'm gweithio iawn. Felly, gallwn ymddech chi'n meddwl i'r gyfer sydd yn cael nhw mewn cyfnodd a ddoch chi wedi eu hyrach fel rydych chi'n mae yn amlwg ym heddiwb mewn ymddangos i'n meddwl yma. a hynny'n gŵr i fynd i gael i'r gŵr. Yn ymddangos yma? Mae'n gŵr i'r gŵr yma, a hynny'n gŵr i'r gŵr i fynd i fynd i'r hyn. Rwyf wedi'n gwaith i'r gŵr yma i fynd ar y peth. Yn rŵr, dyna phonwyd pwysig, a pwysig i'r gŵr yma i fynd i'r gŵr yn gŵr, rŵr yma i fynd i'r gŵr, Felly, yn ffynantol, fel y gwaith o'r reil, ac rwyf wedi bod y gallwn amddangos o'r rhai sgol. Rwyf y gallwn i amddangos i'n ffynol. Mae'r ddweudio, ffynol, rhaglion, gwahydau, gwahydau. Wrth gwrs o'r ffordd, wrth gwrs o'r ffordd. Rwyf wedi bod yn ffynol. Felly, y gallwn wedi bod chi'n rhaid oherwydd. Rydyn ni'n meddwl. Y gallwn i'n meddwl. Dysyn ni'n rhaid i chi ni. Ond nid yn y gallu bod ni'n amser yn digwydd, digwydd gen nhw'n gwybod bod... Gweithio gweld ym mwyaf o holl bwysig. Ond rwy'n cael ei bwysig, ac mae'r ffaith yn gweithio i fynd. Ac yna fyddda ni, ceisio ar y peth. Ond mae'r rhaid i fod ynran scholars. Rhaid iddyn nhw, fel mae'r pan fyddfeydd yn i chi bwysig. Mae'r wych o'r rhan. Yn nodi'r rhan. Cymru'n cael ym blwyddyn yng Nghymru? Rydyn ni'n ddechrau, ond ond rydyn ni'n ddod i'r arddangos. Rydyn ni'n ddechrau ar gyfer y Dynistiaeth Cabeus. Rydyn ni'n ddod i'n ddweud bod yng nghymru. Rydyn ni'n ddod i ddod i'r oed. Rydyn ni'n ddod i ddweud. Rydyn ni i ddod i ddod i'r oed. Ond ydych chi'n gwneud hynny neu wneud hynny sy'n ei wneud hynny i ni fel y byddwn ni. I gyrraedd o'r llwyf. Yn gwrth gwrth gwrs, rwy'n ddysgu... Felly rwy'n ddweud y chynllud yn gallu gwneud. A'r llwyf yn ddwy'n ddwy'n ddwy'n ddwy'n ddwy'n ddwy'n ddwy'n gyrs. yna fel oedd o'i amser, dwi'n goffi, ond mae'n goffi, rydyn ni'n oed ben i'r gael. Nid yw'r ganddyn nhw y gallu'n gwybod arall. Ychydig wrth i ddim mynd i ddim mynd i ddim mynd i ddim mynd i gael. Mae'r ganddyn nhw'n goffi'n goffi arall, dyna rwy'n gweithio arall, a'r ganddyn nhw'n goffi arall. Roedden nhw'n goffio, mae'n gofio'n goffio? Rydyn ni'n goffio arall. Mae'n goffio yna o'n gweithio arall. Ac mae'r ddaeth yn swyddfa. Mae'n gwybod i gyd, ac mae wedi gilydd eich gyd yn gyd yn 22 ac yn gwybod i gyd yn gwybod 29. Mae'n ddweud ymwneud. Mae'n ddweud mae'n gyd yn gwybod i gyd yn ddefnyddio'r gysyllt. Mae'n ddweud ymwneud yn gweithio'r gyrdd. Mae'n ddweud ymddangos gyd yn gwybod i gyd yn gweithio'r gynhyrch, ac efallai yna'r hyn yn yr hyn yn ymddiol iawn. Ac mae'n meddwl ar gyfer y cyfnod ac yn ymddiol. Ac mae'r arddangos, mae wedi amser wedi bod yn gwybod i'r ffordd. Yr hyn o'r ddechrau? Ymddiol. Gweithio? Mae'r ddechrau'n defnyddio, mae'r ddweud? Nes yw'r ddweud i'ch ddweud? Mae'r ddweud i ddweud eu bod yn ymddiol i'r ddechrau. Mae'r drwsgliadau ac ychydigol. Dwi'n teulu'n gwybod ddif wedi cael ei fod wedi'i'n gwybod, felly rydw i'n gallu gwneud yn ddefnyddio, ac mae'n gwybod. Dwi'n gwybod o'r drwy'r gweld yn ymlaen. Ydw i'n gwybod. Mae'r bwyllt. Dwi'n gwybod o'r hyn sy'n ddefnyddio ddim i ddim oherwydd i ddim oherwydd i ddim yn ei ddim? Rwy'n ddim yn siaradu'n gwybod oherwydd i ddim yn ei garyg. Roeddwn i'n gwybod, ond bydda i'r gary gyd o'ch oeddi i'n medwy, ond bydd eu bod wedi'n medwy pan fe'r medwy er dim, gan gael beth oeddwn i fel veh flynedd ac oeddo i'n medwy. Felly mae'r medwy yn y cofnodd. Felly mae'n medwy o'r meddwl yn y ceisio. Rwyf wedi bod yn siarad, sy'n dechrau'r meddwl. Felly, mae'n cymhau eich flwyddyn wedi bod yn y rhan o fath, ond, o'n credu fel y rhan o'r rhan i'w ffordd, fel y ffordd, am y bydd y lleol iawn. Mae'r rhan o'r têl, têl sy'n yn rhan o'r rhain o'r rhain, oherwydd. Ond, mae wedi bod yn cyfaint gyda'r penderfyniad, ond mae'n bwysig i chi'n tyfnol eu ffyrdd. fel y gallwn o'r ffordd pan weithio'r ffordd. Ond rydyn ni'n gwybod ychydig, ond rydyn ni'n gwybod ychydig, a ddim o'n gyfnodd amser ar y bydd, i gydig i ddifenni'r byd, a ddim iawn i'r byd, ac rydyn ni'n gwybod i mi, a gweld i'n ddyn ni'n gwybod i'r bydd, i'r bydd hefyd, Felly, mae'r tyfod gwn yn ei wneud, a dyma, dyma'r byw syniadau lle robin i chi. Felly, mae'r tyfod i chi'n gweld i chi. Rhaid eu gweld i chi gwaith iawn y home. Rhaid i chi i. Rwyf i'n gwylliant i mi ychydig maen nhw mor newlynodau. Felly, fe oedd yn rhoi i fynd bod dyna gwag yng nghymru, a when I met him, hefyd rhai rhaid i ni os oedd diwylliant hynny sy'n galwch. I wnaeth o'ch barch a ddydd, wnaeth o'ch ffarn wneud mewn i ddim yn ei ddweud, a os mae fyddawn i mynd i'r ein ystod. Yn y flach, mae erbyn yn rhaid, ond mae'n defnyddio'r flach. Fe ddim aye ddim yn fyddo syniad yng ngyf rhywbeth gyda ein rhan o'i ddweud o'r fforaidd. Mae'r bobl maen nhw, mae'n ddim rowan yn ddigon. Fe gyd, byddam yn ymwyfn ni gyd? Mae'r gwybrei, dwi'n gofio. Moedd hi'n gwneud hynny'n gwneud Cywel yw'n cael ei wneud yma? Nid yw'r newydd. Mae gwaith hwn wedi'i gyd? Rwy'n arfer, dweud, a ddyn nhw'n ddweud yma, ddyn nhw'n ddweud fynd i'r mherau. Mae gwaith yma. Dyna byddiwch darllen o'ch ddysgu. Dda chi'n ddweud, ddim yn dda i ddechrau, ddim yn ddweud i ddim yn ddweud i ddweud i ddweud i ddweud i ddweud i ddweud i ddweud i gael i'r cwrs yma i eisiau pam yna iell ei dosud ddaint? Yn rhaid i'ch gael teimlo i gael eich ystryd, ac mae erbyn i'r ddigol i'r ddigoleg. Ac mae'r ddigoleg i'r ddigoleg, mae'r ddigoleg i'r ddigoleg i'r ddigoleg, yna rhaid i'ch diwedd yr afael y ddigoleg, mae a yn ei ddigoleg y cwrs yma i gael eich gael. Ac y gallwch ni'n ddigoleg i'r ddigoleg, a'i gael i'ch gael eich ddigoleg, Gandhi went back gave it to him and that was it. And then it started off a thing where it was just money. You know being around money and then it escalated. Were you working at the time? Yes. I was working. I went from Mercedes. So when he was telling you pick up stuff, did you know what it was? Not initially, no. What were you picking up? yng nghymru sefydlu wasb yn cael gweithio. Felly, gallwch yn gweithio bobl yn gweithio'r ddyn nhw, felly byddai'n gweithio'r ddyn nhw. Gweithio? Gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r ddyn nhw, pe ffôr, ddyn nhw'r gweithio'r ddyn nhw. A mae'r ddyn nhw'n gweithio'r ddyn nhw. Dw i'n gweithio'r ddyn nhw? Ddylau'r drogau rŵn? Ym... probably... I'd say... maybe about six months into it or something? For fact... yeah probably between four and six months into it. What sort of gear? Cocaine. Did you start selling it yourself? No, so I never... So it wasn't a thing where... I would never sell... I didn't even get any of the money for it. You know it wasn't like I was getting paid to do it or anything like that. So... he would just say to me... can you go and drop this to... I don't know... John. And then... I'd go and drop it and then go. That was it. It was nothing like... so then obviously whoever then that it went to... they did whatever so it was not like... I wasn't selling like directly to the user or anything like that. Did you just basically use your... Yes. When did you realise it was drugs? Yeah probably... about that time because... the way he started behaving and how he would say to me... the way he was talking to me. In the end I said to him... what's going on? What am I doing? And then he just made it a thing where he was like... I trust you. I wouldn't ask anyone else to do this for me. Blah blah blah. To make out that... okay well you trust me. You know like an idiot. Colourable bastard. Yes I know. I appreciate that. When did... Were you just getting to that stage where you would have probably done anything for him? Yeah definitely. I was I lived on eggshells. You know when you get to a point where... you're scared of the person and... you don't know... what personality is going to walk through the door that day. You know when the key goes in the door... what version is going to come through. When you're living like that... you know it just... obviously you know people say like... you know you knew what you was doing was wrong. Why didn't you just leave? Okay I wish I did. Yeah I did know what I was doing was wrong. But until you've actually been in a situation like that... it is difficult for people to understand. Because I didn't think I'd be in that position. You know and I was. Do you think you were a target for him? Definitely. As soon as I met you? Yes. Was it love as well where... it's just so happened that he's got you. You do anything for him so he's just pushed it away? Or was it a plan kind of grooming tactic? I think it was grooming. And the reason I say that is because... you know from the moment we was arrested... he never spoke to me again. Like he didn't even ask if I was okay. I saw him several times in court. He never said anything to me, didn't even look at me. It was like he didn't even know me. And then when I'd done that course around domestic abuse... they said that when you meet someone... when you meet a perpetrator of domestic abuse... they know what they're looking for. So they will see a vulnerability in you... that you don't even see yourself. And then they can use that to their advantage... in order to be able to obviously manipulate the situation... for their benefit. So where I was getting to know him thinking you know... you know I want to get to know him. I like him blah blah blah. So I was genuinely wanting to get to know him. But he was getting to know me. So he could find out what it was about me. You know that he could potentially use against me. Did he have anybody else doing his running for him? Yeah, so there was five of us on the charge. Five girls? No. So there was me, there was one other girl... but she wasn't anything to do with him. And then there was two guys. So how long did this last? So I was under observation for 18 months. Surveillance? Yeah. So a long time did they ever catch him with anything? They never caught him with anything... there was several text messages between him... obviously given orders orchestrating. Conspiracy? Yeah. Did he get done with conspiracy? Yeah. What did he get? 16 and a half years. 16 and a half? Yeah. Is that a big sentence or not? Yeah it's really big. It started at 25 years. What did they catch him? And eventually what was the full charges? Just conspiracy to supply? Conspiracy to supply class A. How much was you driving about with at most? So I got caught with a kilo of cocaine. And then the other guys that were on the charge... I think five kilos were seized in total at the time of arrest. But obviously because everyone was under surveillance. And obviously they see you meeting people. So when it's a conspiracy charge obviously they just have to prove that you had the intention to supply whether it be drugs or money. If there's an exchange. They were seeing exchanges of bags. Meeting various people. When the first day that I got seen I was actually the person that I'd met that day. They had been arrested however months. Probably not long after that. So there was a rest that were being made with other people. But obviously their charges were separate out. How many kilos was a sale in a week? I don't know. I honestly don't know. I mean because a lot of the time it was money that I handled. But in terms of how much was moved I don't know. Because the other guys that were arrested. They were the ones that were mainly dealing with the drugs. So I think I only used to step in if they weren't around. Because they had... I found this out in court when we went to court. That they had a whole van that was... Had been modified. Where they would... So they said in court that it had been wired up to a point where there was a button that would press and then the insides of the van would move and then that's where the drugs were stored. But I didn't know any of this. I only found this out in court. I didn't realise how big the operation was until I was in court. Some James Bond shit. So what happens when you're doing your thing, making a bit of dough, lift the man you think you love. Everything's going sweet. Everything always goes sweet in that life. You'll be scared of your life. But then the little bombing comes in. You'll treat you well at some stages. Then you'll put you down. But that's just the traits of narcissism, isn't it? And it's that cycle, isn't it? It's that constant cycle of abuse. Did you have any incline that you were getting followed? There was occasions, yeah. There was times when I thought I was being followed. And then I would say to him, I'm sure someone was following me. Why were they driving? And then I'd tell him the car and he'd be like, oh no, you're just being paranoid. But clearly I wasn't because... What was his previous? So he had previous four drugs. And from what I found out, I think one of the officers actually told me when I was in prison, they looked on the computer and he hadn't actually been out that long before he met me. So, yeah. So it was obviously something that he did often. So see when you knew it was drugs? They'd be just thinking, I just want to do anything to please this man? Yeah, so it was basically to please him to stay on his good side, if you like. How many beatings did you used to get? Was it frequent or was it just now and again? The majority of the time it was like psychological. And there was the few times where he would like grips me up like round my neck and shove me about. And then there was one time when we was in the house and I'd been on the phone to my friend. But he was sitting there, he'd come in and I was already on the phone to my friend. And he, but I didn't get off the phone because this was not too long before we was arrested. And I was coming to a point that I'd found out stuff that he was living a double life and all this kind of stuff. And so I just thought, I need to try and get away from him. So I thought when he comes in, I'm just going to stand my ground and just stay on the phone and whatever. So carried on talking to my friend on the phone for a good probably half an hour, 40 minutes. And then after that long he sat there and said, did you think I'm a dickhead? And then I was like, oh, then I shook myself. And I was like, oh, a foot will go, hung up the phone. And he was sitting on the sofa and he had a glass of wine and I had walked into the kitchen. And where the front room was it was, you could see straight into the kitchen, the door. And I turned around and I was like, what are you talking about? And he was like, you must think I'm a fucking dickhead and he threw the glass, like full glass of wine at me from sitting on the sofa. And I managed to shut the, I shut the kitchen door. So the kitchen door obviously took the hit of the glass. And then next thing, he's come storming through screaming at me and I was staring at him. And it was just like he just went completely blank and then he just punched me round the face and he wasn't a small guy, he was a big guy. And I just obviously dropped to the floor as I got back up, he went to hit me again. I don't know how I managed to dodge it, but I did. And then when that happened, I was like, I shook myself, but I was in my pajamas. I was in a nighty thinking what am I going to do? I couldn't even think where my car keys were because I was just so like what the fuck is going on. And so I managed to get out of the kitchen, I went into the bathroom to look at my face because it was like, and yeah, I looked in the bathroom, then he was like following me around the house. So I'm thinking what the fuck, you know, I'm trying to get out of the way. So then I've gone into the bedroom, he's following me and I was like, please stop following me, please stop following me. And I've gone back in the bathroom looking at my face again, he's come behind me. Then he was like, what's wrong? I said, what? He was like, why are you crying? I was like, what? And then he said, I said, you should just punch me round the face. He said, no, I didn't. I was like, what? What do you mean no, you didn't? I thought I was going mad, you know what I mean? You feel like going crazy. And I thought, you got to be joking me. And then I was in peace just crying. Next thing you know, I could hear him crying. He was in the front room, sitting at the dining table, crying. And I thought, and I'll hold him then. I thought I was hearing things. I walked in there, he's got his head in his hands crying. I'm saying how sorry he was, I'm really sorry, you know. You just know what buttons to press. Then it was my fault because I made him do it then. Yeah, and then that was kind of a turning point for me, like where he'd hit me. I thought, oh my God, I need to, I need to try and get away from this. And the property that I was in at the time was coming to the end of the tendency. And I thought I need to get out of here, I need to get out of here. And then obviously I then, because he had done that to me and he was in the apologetic stage, really sorry, trying to fix it, trying to make it right. So I thought, well I'm going to try and use this to my advantage. So I just said to him, look, I think we might need some space. I said I'm going to find somewhere else to live. And yeah, so I did that and then I didn't give him the keys to the property that I moved to. But he was still there, ringing me, contacting me. But at this point, then I wasn't doing anything for him. I said like, obviously I don't know, involvement, whatever. And he took, but he used to call me and he used to just turn up outside the flat because like an idiot told him where it was. And he, but then he used to be at the flat before I got there. And then he used to say things like, oh, show me, I don't have a key that I could just be inside waiting for you. And then there was part of me for, there was a little part of me that was like, oh, like should I? And then I was like, no, no, no, don't give him a key because once you give him a key then it's going to be even more difficult. So then in that time, it was only a couple of months really, I think I moved into that flat in the March or the April of 2015. And then ended up, ended up getting arrested in the September. But yeah, and in that time I would then started like trying to, because by this point then I wasn't working. He made me leave my job. And so I thought, I'm going to get back into work now. I'm going to look for a job. So I was trying to put things in place in order to try and get myself away from him but obviously it was a bit too late. How much is that a regret that you took him back and you had him out to go and move on? Or do you think you couldn't move on because he was always there? He was always there, yeah. He was always there. And I think what is difficult is when you've got a trauma bond with someone that's really hard to break. But I didn't realise at the time that that's even what it was. And I've just found out, obviously doing the course that I did in prison, that is a trauma bond. And when you're in that situation, it's so difficult. And apparently on average it takes a woman, she leaves a relationship seven times before she ends up leaving for good. Yeah, seven or 10 and that. Yeah, something crazy like that. And you just think, you know, what are we doing? What about when you get busted, what happened? So when I got arrested, I just picked up the kilo of coke and I was driving and then got surrounded by five police cars at a roundabout during rush hour. And yeah, they just literally, one of the CID jumped out of the car, came banging on the window, telling me, get out of the fucking car. And I looked and I was like, me. And I was like, it would just all happen so fast. And then he dragged me out of the car. And yeah, just, and he said to me, have you got any drugs on you? And I said, yeah. I said this under the passenger seat. And he looked to me, he looked to me short that I'd said it, but to be honest with you, I was relieved. I actually felt relieved because that day I didn't want to go. He called me, I'd been out. I'd had a lovely day with my family and he called me and he said, can you do me a favour? And I said no because I knew where it was going. I said, no, no, no, I can't. He said, please, please Emily, please. And I said, no, I don't want to. I told you I'm not doing it anymore. And then I hung up the phone and it rang me back and it rang me probably about four or five times. And he was like, please, I promise you this is the last time. This is the last time I'll never ask you again, please. I just need you to do this one more time. I went on and on and on and on. In the end I obviously gave in. I said, all right, I promise you this has to be the last time I'm going to do it. But I had this feeling in my gut like straight away that yes, I knew something wasn't right that day. Did anybody know what you were doing? Did you ever tell anyone, parents or friends? No. Did you ever have to give everybody up clean that had been in that live with him? Because of when you're in a controlling relationship like that, they do isolate you from friends and family. It was like it was wrong for me to want to go and see my family or want to go and spend time with my friends and be calling my phone. Then if I didn't answer, it'd start threatening me. There were so many times where I'd be out and it'd start and then I'd literally, as soon as you saw my phone, shaking like my whole demeanor would change and then I used to leave. On so many occasions I'd be out and then I'd be like, oh no, fuck this. I need to get back. So see when you get caught, you're going through the process that the corpus offered you a deal? No, they didn't offer me a deal. They obviously arrested me. They took me straight to the police station and one of the police officers said to me, he was like, how have you got involved in this? I was like, I wish I knew. I don't even know how this happened. He was like, he has manipulated you to the max. He said, we've just arrested him in this big massive home with his partner and kids and all of this. And that was just like, what? I couldn't believe it. He was at home before? With his partner and his kids. So you had that massive and did you know about his kids? Well, I found out about her probably a week before I was arrested that she was pregnant. So I just showed how rooted the goes are, the lies and the deceit. But again, anybody that sells dogs and I've got many friends who have done bad shit and I just know the lies that goes with that life. Everything's a lie. Everything. Everything's a game. Literally everything. Just to get that extra bit of money and people get through on their buses left right and centre. People would die left right and centre just for the sake of that paper man. It's scary. It's so scary. Honestly, it's so scary. Just to think that someone could go to those limits you know for and you just think like, like why me? Do you know what I mean? Like why did you have to why didn't you just stick to people who are in that life? Do you know what I mean? Like I'd never been involved in that in my life. Never been around drugs or anything. So a completely different world to obviously how I grew up. What you're thinking then of us needing the sales? Oh, that was horrific. Absolutely horrific. I cried constantly. Couldn't sleep. Panic attacks. Pacing up and down the cell. I was strip searched as well. Obviously when I got there because drug related offences they usually do that. And yeah, just the first night I was there. Well I tried because obviously I tried to get Belle. I tried to get me Belle. And he said though the police straight away was like no, you're not getting Belle. Initially they said no because for my safety and then when it got to court magistrates tried to apply for Belle again and they said no potential flight risk because I had connections to other countries but they had my passport anyway so I don't know where they thought I'd be going. Yeah, so the first night in the police cell was there who was freezing. I didn't know my rights now but I didn't know that you could ask for a blanket. Do you know what I mean? No one offered me a blanket. I know people were like you're arrested. What do you want a blanket for? But I was literally freezing. So what did you end up getting charged with? I got charged with the Conspiracy Supply Class A and got eight years but they started at 16 years for me. But they took time off for early guilty play because I went guilty at our first well, obviously it got thrown out of magistrates because it obviously can't be sentenced to magistrates for that case. So I went to Crown. The first time we appeared in Crown I went guilty straight away because my barrister said obviously you've held your hands up you said you was involved because obviously I knew what I was doing was wrong so I'm not going to sit there and try and go not guilty to a trial I did wrong so obviously I deserved to get punished for it so I went guilty at the earliest opportunity even before playing case management hearing so they took time off for early guilty play previous good character because the judge he did recognise and mitigating circumstances surrounding the relationship so the judge did recognise that if it wasn't for my relationship with him he believes that there's no other reason as to why I would have been in that situation Would you have got a 16 if you didn't plead? Maybe not 16 I might still have time taken off for good character mitigating circumstances but obviously you get a third off if you go guilty early See because you played a guilty did no one ever try and get you to take the blame for it all? No or did that if you've played guilty as well that why would that not make you question that they make you take a sentence instead of saying you weren't involved or you were bullied to do it like they could have done that as well if they were already caught The other people but this was my thought process behind it because because you should never let a woman take a fall no matter what if you're part of it Yeah I mean that would be my thought process and you know what when the defence his defence stood up because everyone went guilty Everyone pleads guilty but obviously even though you plead guilty obviously you still get time to have a defence so your barrister will you know fight your case and the first thing that his barrister said when he stood up in court was my client takes no responsibility for anybody's involvement everyone that was involved was involved because they wanted to be and I remember sitting in the dock and I was like I shook my head and I was like you fucking jerk and because I just thought you know what even if it even if it didn't affect my even if I still got a sentence you know I still got some form of a sentence I just thought how can you what person can actually sit there and not say that I made her do it that just to me that obviously just confirms even more so that what kind of you know character Usually the bad deal on the table though for people to take their girl to play and someone to get off especially the girl that No they didn't put anything on there But it must have been high profile then for nobody to get any for you to get an eight so when you get an eight what are you thinking Well my barrister had said to me before we went up to court for sentencing spoke to him downstairs and he said to me you're going to get ten years and my dad because I was remanded straight away so obviously I wasn't released from the moment I was arrested I went straight to prison and when I was there my dad and my brother came on the first visit and he said to me my dad was like you're going to get ten years you're going to get ten years so I kind of always had that in my head he said please Emily just have ten years in your mind and then anything less than that is a bonus but you know for your own sake just have that in your head so I always had that in my head and then my barrister said the same thing and then obviously when we got up to court and he started out fifteen years I was like fucking out and then I just had numbers I just had sixteen, twelve ten and then he was like so I'm going to sentence you to eight years and then I was like I turned around and I looked at my cousin and she was like it's going to be alright and then I walked out of the because he then he was like take her down very dramatic and then I walked out and I lent up against the wall and I just took a breath and he had just been sentenced before me and as I looked up he'd just gone in the lift and the lift doors were closing and then he looked at me and I just was like yeah and then I went down to the court cells and I'd already done six months on remand so I just sat there and was like okay are you done six months now that just means you've got three and a half years left to do so I was kind of already kind of like in the swing of jail I started off in Holloway what was that like I mean I was shooting myself up first I was so scared I rang my mum from the police station when they said that they was reminding me I rang her from the police station and I was like I'm going to Holloway I was like do you think I'm going to die and she was like no Emily you're not going to die because you hear horror stories don't you and obviously you see what you see on TV and you know you just think that is going to be the worst place possible but actually it was alright How did your parents react to that like their baby daughter then getting an HD somebody who was doing well in the GCEs working for Merck bright future ahead of you buying somebody comes into your life and turns it upside down how much stress did your parents go through with that so much they was I called my dad initially was the first person that I called from the police station because I was like oh my god I don't know what to call I can't call my mum because I thought she's going to be an absolute emotional wreck surprisingly initially she was very calm but I think she was like that for my sake and my dad was just like he was like oh Emily oh no he was quite calm but then obviously it came to realise that they were absolutely devastated mixed emotions really my mum said she was heartbroken she was absolutely in pieces probably every single day for four years and angry they felt anger obviously that I'd gone through that upset for me that I'd experienced all those things what was prison like for you four years in there it was okay to be honest with you I think the hardest thing about prison is obviously being away from friends and family and then obviously having your your liberty taken away obviously losing all of that but I feel like when you are there it's probably not as bad as what you would expect I mean it's testing of times of course because you're surrounded by women constantly hormones flying all over the place and officers that can be difficult you're tested on a daily basis but I think as long as you keep your head in the gate when you are there then you can just focus on your time and obviously trying to get as much as you can out of the the experience if you call it what was the worst thing you see in prison I think I was quite lucky obviously when I was in Holloway I heard when someone got hot water and sugar thrown over them but that was on one of the other wings so I didn't see that another girl had a fight and ended up with her eye didn't see the fight but saw her eye after and was like oh my god so I think I think I was quite lucky because when I was in Holloway I ended up getting enhanced and then when I went to Bronzefield they carried my enhancement over so I then ended up getting moved over to another block so I wasn't in I wasn't around so I think I was quite lucky in that sense what sort of friends did you make in there did you make any good friends I mean because obviously when I got there I ended up sharing with my Cody I'd never met her before I knew that day that I got arrested and then we got to Holloway and we kind of lent on each other because obviously we were each others comfort we were both going through this together and they let us go in a cell together which a lot of people said is quite uncommon because they don't usually let Cody share but they let us share and she was pregnant at the time and we just got on so well we had we were there for each other those first six months were obviously really difficult really difficult time being pregnant in prison oh my god awful but what happened then that she could have to give birth in prison or that she could take to a hospital get taken to a hospital when you're pregnant in prison get taken to a hospital and then from there she was lucky enough to get a space on mother and baby unit in Brunsfield they don't have mother and baby units in every prison unfortunate well no fortunately I should say so there's only a few prisons that do have them so she was then able to have a baby with her and she only got three years I say only obviously it's three years still so she would have to do half of that she was able to get tag so she was able to keep her baby with her for obviously for the duration of her sentence but you know if people get longer sentences then you can only keep your baby with you up to a period of 18 months and then you'd have to send your baby out to family hopefully if you've got family but yeah it's a lot I don't think babies should be in prison definitely no I don't even know that you could give birth in Stokey in prison with your baby yeah so they'll take you to the hospital and then they won't put you in a sweat box but they will take you in a taxi well she went in an ambulance to the hospital and then from the hospital or she went in I think she did go in a taxi or they give you those other prison type vans that aren't the boxes inside and yeah and even if you've given birth just before you go to prison you can then also make an application to have your baby brought in with you but the spaces are so limited you know there's obviously lots of people that give birth or have given birth just before they go to prison that aren't able to have their babies with them I mean it's a shitty situation isn't it because obviously you don't want your child in prison but then you don't want to be without your child but there is an organisation called birth companions and they're actually doing a lot of work and campaigning to stop like women giving birth in prisons like prisons are no places for babies yeah that's mad and I don't even know that if you took to a home or took to care until you're out no they'll only go to care obviously if you don't have like a suitable family member or friend or someone that you know social services obviously will agree for your child to go to did he ever make contact with you in prison? never never spoke to me once how does that make you feel I'm fine with it now I'm over it obviously it says more about him than just about me like I said obviously I was relieved when I was arrested because I thought great I'm confined this is it now it's done there's no coming back from this so I was happy as happy as you can be just to be away from that situation but yeah no contact whatsoever obviously like I said didn't even ask me if I was okay didn't even look at me nothing what was it like being around my old sex case even when everybody talks about the men and the shit that they have done because of the women's prison they're all mixed what was that like really difficult when I got to Fransfield you go on Houseblock 2 which is basically like the induction Houseblock that you'd go on when you first get there and I'd got there and I was there for a little while but then where Holloway was closing down so when I left Holloway that was the first that was the last day that they weren't taking no more new prisoners because they'd already started shipping prisons out to obviously empty the jail and so then that's why I ended up going to Fransfield and so when I was in Fransfield I'd been there for a little while but obviously they were shipping Holloway prisoners out then obviously they're getting new prisoners in from court so one of the officers came up to me and he said to me oh do you want to go to Houseblock 4? now I'd heard straight away that Houseblock 4 was where everyone was where you didn't want to be and I was like no thanks I'm fine here and he was like we got a shower in your room that was the perk of it you got a shower in your room I said that's fine I'll use the communal showers okay thank you I don't need to go over there and then he was like okay you don't have to half an hour later he'd come back and he was like you need to pack your stuff he said you've got to go to Houseblock 4 and he was like I know that was when I asked you if you wanted to go but now it's the direct order and you have to go and I was like you are joking me and I walked on the block and then obviously at first you don't know who's who and who's in for what so I went over there thinking people saying hello and I was thinking I don't know if I can say hello to you I don't know if I can say hi and then yeah obviously everyone talks in there so it's not long before you know who's in for what but it is mad to think that a couple of doors down you'll be sharing a cell with someone who's in for the most horrific event you could think of was the worst sort of prisoners in there that you'd heard of someone who a mother who's kids were part for Peter Farmering she used to sell raffle tickets and things like that it's fucking disturbing aren't it I'm surprised that women let's allow to mix that did they ever get battered or were they just left alone some did I felt like maybe that happened more so in Holloway because Holloway there's two completely different prisons Holloway was very old school in terms of the way it was with there was a clear line between prisoners and prison officers if you was at the office for too long talking then you was a grass things like that it was so different whereas in Bronzefield those lines were very much blurred the officers would be going to people's rooms sitting down drinking tea and coffee the tea and coffee that the prisoners bought on the canteen out of their £15 a week eating their snacks and things like that and I didn't I didn't mind obviously getting on with the officer because it just made your life easier but I still think there needs to be that that line what sort of courses were you doing in prison so when I was in Holloway I did multi skills course so that is they teach you like painting the decorating how to hang up pattern wallpaper how to tie or how to change a tap obviously all things that it's going to to know how to do and then from there I went to Bronzefield and I did I found out they did a hairdressing course it was only a level 1 at the time in hairdressing and I thought oh a result I've always wanted to do it but just didn't have the didn't have the time or the money to be able to obviously pay for it and I might be hard to believe but I didn't have the money also and yeah and then so I did the level 1 in hairdressing which I loved I also did level 1 in the gym so level 1 qualification so just working a gym can't be a PT or anything yeah and then I did that the level 1 but there was a group of girls of us that were there and the ladies who run the salon they thought that we were amazing they really pushed to get funding for level 2 because with level 1 hairdressing you can't really do anything with it you can't go out and work in a salon to help you when you're released and they worked really hard and they ended up getting funding for level 2 so I did my level 2 in hairdressing as well so then became a qualified hairdresser I worked up in the salon they have a salon there in Bronzefield and the women can pay for treatments they've got a pod system so the women can pay for treatments on there and then they come up to the salon and then the girls obviously asked women we would then do their hair so Steve when you started doing the courses on yourself have I ever hit you what you had done? I was very numb at first but I did the a course called Aurora which is a domestic abuse course because obviously I blamed myself for a long time you know why did you just stay there why didn't you get out I was asking myself the same questions now you're sitting here doing 4 years in prison for what and then then I did the course and it was a weeks course so it was all day well I think it might have been 4 days I might be wrong but I think it was 4 days so morning and afternoon session and they went through absolutely everything with us about the perpetrators what they're looking for and everyone had a time to explain their situation and took a professional to sit in front of me and say to me this is not your fault he knew what he was doing you're here not because of your fault obviously but in terms of how you became a part of it he knew what he was doing and that was probably the turning point for me in my sentence because once I heard that I was like ok and then I think that's when the healing and I was then able to obviously work on myself and try and build myself back up again what was the steps you had to do was it first offender a very hard sentence did you have to go to an open prison before you get out I did go to an open prison so from well I was actually rottling they call it release and temporary licence from Bronzefield so I managed to get a placement in a salon and I was going out to work from Bronzefield at one point going out for like 500 women and so I got this placement in hairdressers but the only thing about Bronzefield they weren't at that time they wasn't it was ok going to work but it wasn't paid work it was voluntary and also and also they didn't allow you to go home so my biggest thing was obviously I want to go home to my family I want day releases I want home leaves so yeah it got to a point where I was like I need to go to open now so my decision to go to open was the best thing that I did because obviously as soon as you're there they just get you into a job you get into paid employment so you're earning decent wage £12-13 a month and yeah then get to go home and start obviously trying to integrate back into normal life oh it's really difficult how so I felt like I felt like I didn't belong anywhere you know you hear people talking about being institutionalised and you think oh that's not going to happen to me but I think it did happen to me you know I would go I would go out and especially when I used to go to my mum's and obviously she was so happy that I was there of course she was and you know she'd see everybody and I'd be in the house you know I might be sitting there in my towel and Sandra from down the road comes to the front door and she's like oh come be my daughter you know and then I'd go out and I'd be like oh you're alright but I just felt everywhere I just felt awkward you know I felt uncomfortable everywhere I felt like I didn't fit in I felt like I was I was trying to be how they expected me to be but I didn't feel like that and then I used to I used to feel relieved when I'd get back to the prison I feel okay I can relax now you know I feel like you're putting on this this show where's your trust issue is that especially with me I feel like I'm alright now yeah I feel like I'm a lot better but I think that's down to how I feel about myself now you know and I just feel like it would be wrong as well like from what I know and you know all the different people that I've met and how I want to be perceived as well you know like to someone to get to know me and not judge me and not have these perceptions of me at the same time I think then when I meet someone you know it would be unfair for me to paint everybody with the same brush don't get me wrong you know at first I very much had my guard up and you know took me a long time to open up and be trusting but yeah in time I think you get there because obviously the mind that's always at the back you remind what if somebody comes in does the same shit that everyone's a real thing that's I believe every human's got narcissistic traits well male and female I don't know about everyone but I think so some sort of traits though because even somebody being nice all the time that's a sense of kind of narcissism that you can be like somebody picking too over friendly too over nice and then you just go to question you see he's got to go with your thought your gut feeling that you've probably never thought the life that you led getting into that life that you would never be doing an eight stretch one and then coming out trying to rebuild your life but I lost everything you know I had to start all over again and you know I'm still I'm still working on it you know now we're near where obviously where I want to be but I have to just be patient with myself and understand that you know things are going to take time but it will obviously all work out eventually but you know it does take a bit of time but yeah definitely I think you do have to you have to definitely be a little bit weary because to protect yourself Where do you go forward for the future? I would say well just trying to obviously now I'm at a point where I'm comfortable speaking about my experiences I probably didn't speak for the first 18 months of getting out I mean I got out and then in the September and we went into lockdown in the March so which was a bit of a relief for me actually because then it kind of took the pressure off in terms of feeling like I've got to go out of the house I've got to see people because I really struggled with anxiety so yeah now I think I'm at a point where obviously I can speak about it yeah I just want to use my experiences to help other people and educate people so many people that I've spoken to recently obviously they have no idea of what prison is like the amount of women who speak to me now and say to me that oh my god thank you so much for telling your story that you've helped me so much I have women messaging me then it just makes you think okay well it was worth it you know it sounds stupid but if I can use my experiences to help other people then at least some good has come out for it was there a lot of women on drugs? there was yeah there was in Brunsford there's a whole house block house block one and that whole house block houses women who come in if you've got drugs or alcohol in your system you might not necessarily be an addict but if you've got drugs or alcohol in your system when you come in you will go into that house block but most of the women on there were addicts so there is a lot of people that are in the predictions so many you tend to see the majority are broken yeah 100% and that's what's sad and speaking about it with one of my friends the other day because she used to use met her in prison and I said to her how was how did you find being in prison did you feel like there was that support there as a user did you feel like you had that support there to be able to go through that rehabilitation process in terms of your drug use and it's not it's not there there's only one prison she made me aware there might be another but she said there's only one prison that offers like an actual kind of rehab programme and they do the five steps and but Bronzeville didn't have that offer but you've got all of those ladies in there who are suffering with addictions and they don't have that recovery they have recovery workers but unless you're going to really get into it and go through to the get to the root cause of the issue that's why they're repeat offenders How was it going on your tech talk doing videos for the first time you were nervous embarrassed? Oh my god I was so nervous the first video that I did I was so nervous because you just don't know what reaction you're going to get to you you don't know how people are going to perceive you or whatever but I just thought you know what it is what it is so let me just let me just tell it how it is that's all you can do you've got your own your own madness everybody makes mistakes well fuck up man there's no point in hiding behind that there's nothing worse if somebody's got something on you and they go on I'm going to tell people this and that so you just own your own story well this is the thing and I thought you know what at least it's done on my terms I mean at least I'm the one that is being able to tell my story and say it from what I went through and the response has been absolutely amazing I couldn't believe it obviously there is negative people on there and you do get negative comments and people have said to me oh well you just have to go to prison you do the crime you do the time blah blah blah and I'm like I did the time four years of it I held my hands up and I went guilty I'm not I'm not turning around saying that you know I didn't do anything wrong because I did and I've owned up to that and I've done the time and obviously and as a result of that and spending four years in prison I think I'm well within my rights to express my views and opinions on the criminal justice system because I've lived it you know most of the people that have something negative to say have not been in that environment don't have any experiences around domestic abuse or anything like that but then they turn around and say well I'll bet you was alright when you was making all the money well no actually I wasn't making any money because if I had 250 grand buried somewhere I'd be alright why did you get an equal for first off ends that's a bit extreme now well it is extreme but when it come to it they said that it was a multi million pound drug operation so and obviously they're saying they said you know through that 18 month period that there must have been well the police say there must have been hundreds of kilos of cocaine that flooded the streets but obviously I wasn't you know that might be a bit extreme I don't know how obviously how much was put out there but because it is a conspiracy so they will and then obviously they take into account what was seized at the time and then obviously they look at it like that street values was that many drug dealer in prison girls loads what was the biggest crime for the female prisoners drugs a lot of drugs cases a lot of fighting you know like junk nights out fighting a lot of those and then obviously the people on house block 1 were probably in for like theft and things like that obviously doing things to be able to fund their habits unfortunately you had the biggest sentence on there Joanna Dennehy she's the lifer she's got a life without parole she killed like 3 or 4 men you would definitely know you must have heard of her something mentioned her before yeah she's probably the sort of mentioned her she wanted to know why she killed the three men but took the she took someone's dog I think it was neat mentioned her it's like she done three men what was she like to be fair she wasn't so bad you know like people have said to me oh my god she must have been really scary but she wasn't so bad because her issue wasn't really with women do you know what I mean women and children unless like depending on what your charge was but yeah her issue was with men so there was times where I used to train with her in the gym and watch film with her not just me and her obviously there was a few people around but yeah it's not happening you're in that environment you forget what they've done it's so different it is so different you know because you're all in that same situation obviously certain offences is a little bit different but when you're all in that environment you just kind of take each other on face value yeah and you're all doing the time and going through it together so plans for the future then you're out you're free you're doing your tech is M underscore from prison to purpose what's the big plans for the future first and foremost is to stay out of fucking prison obviously I'm not going back there's no way that I'll be going back it's just just seeing really where I can take this how far I can go with it my biggest thing about doing it as well is that there's such obviously a stigma around people that go to prison and obviously a lot of people look at me and be like I'd never think you'd go to prison and that's my point you don't know I thought I was going to go to prison and only see certain individuals do you know what I mean but when I got there I couldn't be infer from the truth there was people from all different walks of life so and a lot of these women they're really educated women you know they've got so many great skills and qualities and I think that there are people who are going to be an asset to any employer and I just think that the more people that can kind of understand that and give people a chance give people a second chance because we're not bad people we just made a bad choice and I think that you know I want people to to be more open minded obviously I can't change everybody but if I can change a few people's perceptions obviously I'm going to speak from women's perspective you know make them look at women who've been to prison differently then you know that's good well exactly man you can't love but for anybody watching that's maybe done something bad in the past they can't let go of it what advice would you have for them I would say to them that there doesn't matter what you do that there's always a way out there are opportunities there there are companies there are organisations that will hire you you know you just have to don't let it define you don't let it define who you are you know it doesn't have to it was a moment in your life and just try and look at it and try and take the positives from the situation on our family lesson for coming on today and telling your story about Fair Play to your life thank you for having me Fair Play for the end of the time coming out and trying to change your life do you have anything to finish up on no not really but thank you I hope you stay out of trouble man I wish you all the best for the future take care