 about his. Yes, that's good. You were live. Yeah, so hi, welcome to Hyperledger, ClimatX and SIG group. Here we are working with companies or startups or the projects who are building on Climat, ESG and Carbon Credit. And we have a couple of different working groups. So one is Carbon Accounting and Certification working group, which even if we have code base and part of the Hyperledger labs, we also have a standard working group defining the standards around the Climat action tech, especially in Hyperledger perspective. And we have research and engagement working group where we are focusing on new research methodologies for the carbon counting and those steps. And we actually participate in different event like last year, we were winner of the IBM code program. And along with me, Sherwood Murey is another co-chair for this SIG and today we have a guest is bigger talking about native carbon credit organization and SubuJoyce is the co-founder of a company called Origraft. They are a BLT designed for real-world asset organization and there are use cases where this carbon credit organization can be built on Origraft efficiently. So here is Subu is going to talk about how you think about the market and how the technology is beneficial for carbon credit and a specific climate topic. Yes Subu, over to you and Mr. Joyce. Thanks for that Kamlesh. Thanks for the invite and it's great talking to such August audience briefly about me being in the tech industry startup for the last 34 years building products and platforms for the now last eight and a half years. I've been building Origraft, which is a mindless DLT protocol and the kind of platform by which we've been able to provide the hyperscalability with ultra low latencies like we've been able to bring up more than 100,000 transactions per second with subsequent latency. Among the things that we have been focusing on or actually right now the primary focus has been real-world asset organization because we've also done a lot of integration with open data and open banking to provide real-world solutions. One of the four is that we have been working on is their carbon credits marketplaces. Before I get there, I'll just give you a brief about why this is important today and what is the need for it. I'm sure most almost all of you must have heard of net zero where currently all the major countries in the world including the US, the China, India and all the European Union are focusing on reducing carbon emissions worldwide in order to prevent the global temperature rise going beyond one and a half degrees Celsius from 1970 as a base. Unfortunately, it's not been going well and I am at least skeptical that we will be able to achieve that goal of net zero by 2030. That's the target timeline. As per some scientists, we've already gone past that point. Some are saying we are very close and maybe we have a year or two to prevent that, but yeah, it is tough. If you go by the numbers, it looks very tough that we will achieve net zero by 2030. However, the challenges if we don't achieve a net zero by 2030 is huge. They're expecting the seas to rise by between one to three meters in different places, which means that many of the coastal areas will be flooded. Many of the coastal cities, namely New York, Mumbai, Chennai, Singapore, Jakarta, places like Sydney would get flooded, may actually go underwater. Smaller countries like Maldives would definitely sink. They are just about one and a half meters above sea level. Given that, that is one threat, but that would also mean that approximately 1.2 billion people will be displaced, which can be a severe climate disaster and a larger part of it is also that in such an event with the temperature rise, the agricultural scientists have predicted that the agricultural outputs may drop by 15 to 20% in terms of productivity. In my own case, I've been seeing this for the last about 15, 20 years. I have a small pomegranate tree in my backyard and I've been seeing the size of the fruit shrinking by more than now 40, 50% where I could, I would need like I could hold one big fruit in a hand. Now I can hold actually two to three small fruits because they're not actually getting the size that they were originally getting. The same would happen where, as per scientists, the average yield from most of the crops, be it a paddy and that's rice or wheat or many of the vegetables would suffer from reduced growth and which could have a much larger disaster in terms of food safety for the world over. So I'm just telling you two instances. Why if you won't, I mean, some of the scientists actually give a pretty apocalyptic scenario going forward, maybe in 20 years, 30 years and beyond. We'll just stay here on these two points. Yes, the scene going forward is not very, I would say, encouraging at least from a climate perspective. Having said that, what are the remedies that we can look at? At this point of time, there's a lot of research which has been happening on direct air capture that is captured in carbon dioxide directly from there to reduce the carbon emissions in the air. There are also other techniques that that are being sort of proposed, which is science based techniques or inventions that can reduce carbon emissions, but to reduce the car on one side. The other side has been to prevent carbon emissions by changing the source of the emission. Namely, one, of course, has been trying to move to alternative energy sources away from oil or coal. Also looking at electrical, electrically powered devices or vehicles, which you're quite familiar with. However, in the recent past, lithium-ion batteries are themselves considered to be not very environment friendly as some of you might have heard of that. There's a lot of conundrum happening in that direction about how do we reduce emissions and how do we keep the global warming below 1.5 degrees Celsius as much as we can? Today, I was just reading that because of the oceans warming up, quite a large percentage of the corals have already bleached. Bleached in the sense they have died and they have turned white. The Great Barrier Reef of the coast of Australia has been, which is possibly the largest coral reef in the world, has been known to be dying for the last couple of decades. The same is being observed a lot of other places. Yeah, so we would possibly see even the seas being severely affected, including the growth of fish and other sea life being impacted by this. So the most, I would say the most efficient way to reduce carbon emissions or to remove that from the environment still remains what we call agroforestry or nature-based control, which is to grow essentially more trees, promote more green vegetation, which in effect becomes the most efficient way of converting carbon dioxide into oxygen. That's the, that still remains, I would say the cheapest way to do it where in many cases the cost is under between $4 to $6 per metric ton of carbon emissions being absorbed by vegetation and converted back to oxygen. Techniques like DAC, that is Directive Conversion, has the cost goes up to as much as $60 to $100 per metric ton of carbon emissions. So we still believe that the nature-based technique, which is growing more trees, increasing the vegetation would possibly be the most efficient way of doing it and would be also the cheapest way and nature takes care of itself. Given these scenarios, what are the options? The options are the biggest emitters of carbon emission at this point of time happen to be thermal power stations, steel mills, cement mills, cement factories and then of course, airline and automobiles. It is in that direction that many folks have been trying to reduce the carbon emissions, which you might have noticed especially in automobile manufacturers in Europe and US have to now declare what is the carbon emission per kilometer or per mile for a given vehicle. And in due course of time, we will have rules and regulations in place. In California, it is already in place in I think Germany and other parts of Europe. It's already in place where you have to offset your carbon emissions. It started for vehicles and now I guess in California last year it was. We also have you to offset your emissions for other energy consumptions at your home. Like for example, if you're using other devices which cause emissions, you're expected to buy carbon offsets. Those of you living in California will have a more detailed explanation, more detailed on that. Given that as a scenario, carbon emissions offset is a big opportunity and a big market at this point in time. What is being done in this case is agencies and enterprises are using satellite imagery to capture green covers and designated like projects as they call it, where like in Brazil or in South America, there's a lot of projects happening. In Southeast Asia, quite a few projects have started off where you capture the green cover of a piece of land and then compute the carbon pools in that particular piece of land from which you sequester carbon storage and therefore convert that into carbon credits. So carbon credit in this case is considered one metric ton of CO2 emissions which has been either emitted or absorbed back. Now based on the given guidelines that we have at this point of time for forest based or nature based carbon emissions removal, carbon dioxide removal, it's about folks can between 0.5 to 4 and a half carbon credits per acre. Typically the average is about around two carbon credits per acre based on the species of the trees going there and the coverage of the land that is covered by the trees. So there are different norms in this case about what should be the size of the tree, what should be the growth of the tree, what is the vegetation that's growing there in some cases. Agricultural growth is also considered for carbon credits like we have in Southeast Asia some projects where they are considering rice fields and in other cases we are having agro forestry where there is a mix of agriculture and forests which are being considered for this to help in increasing the yield and then there are community initiatives that are further initiated where for example if you can help conserve the local wildlife or local communities living in the forest especially they in tribal areas and help them to or facilitate them to sort of increase their livelihood and conserve the forest with the tribal or tribals over there. It's it's it means additional points and in this in the endeavor to reduce emissions. So the nature based approach has has been in many cases sustainable and is likely to be possibly are I would say in this case the the holy grail for reducing carbon emissions worldwide. Some of you might have also read about one of you losing an acre minute in the in the Brazilian and the Amazonian forests. So there have been attempts to arrest that as much as we can and therefore you know revive Amazonian forests to become one of the biggest carbon sinks on the face of earth. Amazonian forests have been considered since time immemorial the biggest carbon sink and balancing the carbon emissions worldwide but in the last I would say 50 to 70 years cutting down Amazonian forests have resulted in significant loss of tree cover and therefore climate change has been impacted. Now given these scenarios so what are the what is it that we can do as a technology in the technology space to ensure that carbon credits can grow faster. The bane of the carbon credit industry today has been should we say the lack of traceability about the from where we are being able to sequester the carbon credit. For example, there was a scandal recently in Zimbabwe near a lake called Pariba. What what actually happened was a Swiss company sort of tied up with a Zimbabwean businessman who promised them to grow for us around the lake of a lake and then claimed that they had been able to grow vegetation. Now the the story goes that that this gentleman managed to doctor satellite images of the area around the lake and provide and show green cover to have increased around the lake and then sold that data to a Swiss company called South Pole who in turn sold the carbon credit source sequester to Delta Airlines. Those of you in the US might be aware that Delta charges a carbon surcharge per seat per mile. Right. So so the reason and what they do is they essentially by offsets to reduce the carbon emissions by airlines. Logistics is another big place where carbon emissions are are are in question. So so Delta bought $200 million worth of carbon credits from South Pole, which was in turn sourced from Zimbabwe. Now late in 22 early 23 the scandal broke that you know someone went and took photographs of the area designated or like you know the Zimbabwean business and so to say claimed that it was getting greener and stuff like that much to their shock. They found it was all just barren land. Nothing was growing and he had also made claims that he had helped in the community development by by sort of teaching them bekeeping and so therefore they were like growing honey and so on and so forth. Now this is a problem that I think you know technologies like blockchain can solve where if you are able to tag the source of the the carbon credit and from where we are sourcing it and putting it on a on a blockchain or a DLT we should be able to give traceability and transparency to not just the verifier but also the buyers of carbon credits. In this case, for example, Delta right now this is one business problem that that could be definitely moved to technology like hyper ledger or a regrap or whichever DLT you want to propose to gain to to demonstrate transparency and traceability. The impact of this scandal was carbon credits which were trading at like $27, $28 crashed to about under $3. It was a 90% wipe off. Unfortunately, we may see some more such candles in the coming years because many of these projects have been long running. Many of the agreements that are signed up for like minimum of 40 years and with 2030 as a net zero goal for all the developing developed world and 2050 as the goal for developing world besides that China has taken a date of 2060 and India has taken a date off or targeted off 2070. However, we may not still achieve the targets of net zero or even beyond 2070 is what most scientists of feel given the way things have been going and we continue to see the the effects of climate change and global warming world over in this in this case for us as a DLT industry or by blockchain space. This is one one space that we can possibly make an impact by providing traceability and transparency for right from source to buyer by by using whatever techniques are best used any I'm good then. So with those words, I'd like to say that yeah, I'm open to questions. Okay, thank you so much. So I think how do you see the different I think the opportunity across the globe similar way or a specific geographies are mainly being differently. So at this point of time, carbon credits from Europe are considered the most authenticated and verified even in the US that have been cases of, you know, many of the Indian reserves, Indian nations as they are called have got some carbon credit projects going which are not considered that very should we say verified or genuine. There have been some cases of just grassland being marked as places for where they've been sequestered in carbon credits. So it all depends on how how much how well you verify the sequestration of carbon codes where blockchain or DLT can play a role. Okay. Anybody have any question? I think we don't have any question. Thank you very much. Yeah, Kamlesh has got my coordinates. Anyone wishes to get in touch? I'll be happy to help. Or maybe you can share your email ID or your profile. So I'll just paste it in the chat. And just to cover this YouTube live streaming is on my YouTube. You can have it. Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much. I'll just share the share my LinkedIn profile also. Happy to be of assistance. Happy to work with you guys. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. So I think next week we have a very interesting sessions from one company. They are doing tokenize and agree tech. And they are using the hyperlare fabric. So looking forward to join the next call. I mean like any discussion you would like to have. I think we can discuss with time. Well, maybe I can try to ask a question. It's not completely related to the presentation. But my name is Claudio. I work with Capgemini Engineering. And we are starting a project where we are interested in automate the process of generating certificates and talking for carbon accounting. We noticed that there is a project on hyperledger that is responsible for that. And that project has a design that specifies three actors. And one of those actors, sorry, is the provider, the auditor of the process. And the question I have for you is do you think that if we had enough IoT knowledge, we could create an actor that could automatize that process. Instead of having an auditor, the IoT process would be responsible to generate that information and distribute the tokens accordingly in the blockchain. Okay, talking about this project, which is our hyperledger labs, right? This carbon accounting one, correct? Yes. So I think here, because when we go to the carbon category, this wire hour goal distance in the body and there is an auditor term is there. So that that's why we added the auditor is one of the stakeholders. But I think technically, if you see this different aspect of this project, now you see the DAO. There's another DAO where we don't have any such kind of technology where the community can decide via the voting about the authenticity of any carbon carbon, carbon category. So obviously IoT can play a role if because if you capture the data as real time with with verification, then we do need any auditor at all. Okay, so it's totally feasible that we replace the auditor with an IoT device. Yeah, because proof is to have a authenticity of data like how you bring the authenticity, right? If you can own change and define the authenticity of what is the manner whether you are maybe reading data via sensor or maybe you bringing the trusted system, let's say for example, DAO kind of system in an ecosystem, then you can bring the trust because using a blockchain that the concept like how you can bring the trust in the accounting and the carbon process. And if you see the auditor, then it's a similar traditional data recording the data on on blockchain only. Okay, got it. Thank you. Can I add to that? Yeah, you can find out how we did it. Yes, you can edit. Yeah, yeah. So there is there is one issue in this case and that is the current practices in the sense of current verification processes are still I would say remote sensing and IoT devices and things like that have not yet been incorporated. The new practices were published only in January of this year. So we are still in early days and it may take some time before the methodologies and what you need to do is first get to the methodology approved by a verifying agency and after that you can implement it. Understood. Yeah. Thank you. I think Nimesh wants to talk to you. Hi, Nimesh. Yeah, can you hear me? Yeah. Yeah. So my doubt was like now there are these registries right who verify the carbon methodology and issue carbon right now how you guys tokenize? I didn't understand that part right now Rada verifies your process or methodology and says that yeah it reduces the emission and they show a carbon credit. Now how you guys come into in the place and say that I will tokenize the target. Okay, so, so yeah, so I can go ahead. Go ahead. In there are two to generally process of carbon carbon credit one is accounting right measuring the footprint and saving where we need option to account the all the credit for the data what generally where and what is to do whether they're auditing and the different process right and second of is tokenizing is kind of digital representatives of this token because currently in where I'm going to start this available as a one maybe one complete certificate and second it is costly. I think when you want first you want to have the project audited you need to pay something around 20% fee and still the market liquid is not available right but using tokenization you can bring this liquidity to even $1. I think that is and there are a couple of companies start of all doing they are taking the data from the this registries and just representing in token form and then placing in a secondary market where people can buy. I think they're doing it doing it in magic block Polygon blockchain whether they've been meeting or what was the blockchain but there are many companies doing who just representing this certificate in a token which maybe liquidity is the one thing and other you know opening the market for the buyer even who can't afford the buyer buying from this golden restaurant kind of platforms. Okay. So right now we are just representing the certificate as a token and issuing it. Yeah, correct. So so I said that there are two things one is directly if you have a certificate data available tokenize it or maybe couple of projects like what in the hyper ledger with created this open source code where we can both both component first component to record all this information where different forms in all the method methods and then using this data that I input as a as a carbon footprint saving and calculate in carbon credit and tokenizing in another block. So if you see the architecture of this application, we have two companies like emission data channel, which is hyper ledger fabric based to record all the information what you need for the carbon credit footprint saving kind of thing and then another network to tokenize it. So some people who already believe or want to use the only existing Vara gold instant take directly can use this this simply tokenizing it. There are a few points. There are a few points that you need to also consider under this is that as from the date of tokenization as time progresses there with the aging the value of the token will keep dropping because it's about the past. So second aspect is to prevent duplication of the token from that particular geography about you know, say if you if you generated the token sequestered carbon pools from say a particular forest that needs to be only sold to one party and redeemed by that party to offset their emissions. So we need a global register the global registry for this currently all the verifying agency submit this with the UNF triple C United Nations framework convention for climate change and and therefore a UNF triple C takes care of the deduplication to ensure that from the time of registration of our carbon credit to the point of redemption of the carbon credit to register the offset the entire process has to be is this transparent and clear and they will not permit any duplication in such cases that help. Yeah. Yeah. If there are no more questions, shall I drop? Come on, you guys can show. Thank you very much for this opportunity. I'll be happy to take any questions in future. Have a good day. Good day. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. So I think if because there are if you were interested, we have a couple of working groups and I think that if you want to have get it interest to be get involved or we want to propose a new working group. I think happy to discuss. As a climate control, I think crime prevention group if you have something which is not covered on you want to see in a regular meetings or want to propose something then I think that have put to have call because we have a standard working group and I think maybe this is not some something in meetings have developed. We could we can develop it and also I think this particular lab is already done and all the component available and in a high player lab, but if you still someone want to maintain it, having come forward, you can get involved and be maintained for this one. And then there are research working group or if you see if you want to create another industry-wise, vertical-wise group, let's say ESE or renewable energy or EV kind of thing, then I think that is also you can think about it. So let us know. Let us David, me or Sir, but to introduce something new if you want to want to do here. Okay. Yeah. So thank you. I think David, I think we can stop the recording and then when there's no question, I think we can do it. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you all for joining. Thank you. Bye-bye. Thank you.