 Hey, welcome to another post tweet jam takeaways and joining me today is Daniel Glenn. Hello. Hello everyone glad to be here. Well, this is the great topic. This is an interesting topic and it's in some ways a little bit of departure where usually we'll focus in on like a specific technology. This one was there's one question that's specifically around technology and of course we're both biased. We work heavily within the Microsoft ecosystem. There's Microsoft Viva and that side of it. But the topic was insights and analytics around employee well-being and it's an interesting topic. It's a very interesting topic and it's not something that is even solely in the technology realm. People who are dealing with technology all day it's when we're talking about well-being we're talking about any kind of vertical that you're in. You could be in healthcare. You could be in business. You could be in finance whatever but also it's every part of your life right. It's not just work. So how really how that all pieces together really does make it complex. Well, I've for a long time I've been a leadership development and a management book you know a junkie of those that the books and read that kind of stuff and I'm really passionate around people management and leadership you know type things and developing those skills and and also recognizing that just because especially those of us that work in tech just because you're good at technology does not mean that you should automatically hey promote you to a manager to where you're in charge of other people's lives. I'm sure most people watching have had this experience where I've worked for managers who are brilliant with technology in the business who should have never ever been in charge of another human being. Yeah and that came out in the conversation we had as part of the tweet jam people were saying you know talking about their experiences with their managers and how their managers didn't have those conversations with them as far as you know how do you you know having those one-on-ones and it not be about well what did you do for this project or what did you do you know it's it's that that's that's task-based you know one-on-one conversations and that's not really what brings well-being I think right to a relationship in an organization so well that's what we're going to get into let's start with question number one so within the modern workplace what are the primary factors that influence well-being yeah and I kind of focused on and I think this is what we all need to do and hopefully you're going to hear a theme from me on any of these is it's my answers because we all have to find our place of what makes makes us tick and then match that with then what is that well-being what what does that bring us that peace and that joy right in our in our work so I measure it in did I complete my tasks that's one way meaning I don't like to leave things on the table you know I don't like to leave my workspace and have tasks that I should have done okay so that's one way another is did I communicate well did I did I communicate with my customers with my employees with others in my work did I communicate with them well did we have build relationships was there any issues that were not communicated well and I should do better right so if there is then that's something that it does affect me and does it have balance for me as a consultant another way is is my customers happy you know if I have customers that are that are not happy with me whether it's something I can do I can fix or not then that's going to affect my well-being the and the last is I know this is I've said happy but I'm am I happy you know at the end of the day I can be tired that's fine I mean it's work right but am I happy with what I did am I and if I am then I really consider myself and those things influence am I well you know how what is the level of well-being I guess for me you know it's it when you have a healthy relationship with your manager and and maybe some people don't like you know this this comparison but I think about it like when like I know my as a as a parent I mean I know my kids I know when that's that's just them tired that's what that talking is that's what that attitude is you know it's that it's not out of anger or spite or something where they're they're just you know they're frustrated by this they're they're just tired like I can but I you know close enough to them to know that and I found where where I was in either as a manager or as someone being managed where I was happiest were in organizations where I was close enough to the manager to recognize to have those kinds of conversations to be able to say that there's I mean because this influenced my well-being is when you know for a manager to be like you know a great conversation great example one of my first tech jobs where I was similarly you I didn't want to leave tasks things that were open but I was working longer hours I actually came in on a Saturday getting things done and this man this this boss the owner of the company just said look like this is not right you need to be with your spending your weekend with your family you shouldn't be working these either means that we have too much on your plate and that's fine is like let's but let's you know maybe give some things other people or we need to hire somebody else because we're doing well we're making money you know but we just we're understaffed for what we need to go and do and so you but he was you know present enough and aware enough and in the depth of the conversations to recognize that there was that going on and knew that it was I was on my on the path to burnout where I was going so yeah and and that really does lead us to the other questions and and I think you know for that was a really good flow for this time because you know not you got to know how what are those things that impact it but then how do you track it you know and how do you measure that well that's question number two that's right so let's jump into it so how do you track and measure employee well-being today well I I really think it is and it really is up to managers for a large portion of this and it does speak to good managers bad managers you know I think a lot of it is training and and and and direction and how people can be built up to be managers but it really is up to you to as a manager to have those conversations with your people and to understand where they are and that that if you have a toxic relationship with your employees then that's going to have a huge impact right and you're not going to be able to track and measure because people are not going to be open with you but getting to a point where your employees are are able to tell you listen I I'm struggling right I and not fear for their job not fear that they're going to get docked for you know a performance review just because they're struggling you know being able to have that conversation is I think vital and so having that type of relationship and measuring that is managers really tracking that how are how are conversations going with them you're having one-on-ones with them with your people you know check-ins are they you know recently have they been negative have they been overwhelmed have you have they been sending emails at the wrong time you know at night and early in the morning you know yep and then really I think this hybrid work has you know the hybrid environment where either some or all everyone is is working remotely it really makes it even more difficult to figure out how to get that engagement with the with your people you know I always thought of this too because I know that some of the other things that were discussed during the tweet jam were like you know like a lot of companies especially bigger organizations enterprises do like the annual employee satisfaction surveys and there's some data that you can pull from that and they're usually anonymous or mostly anonymous and so you know the the feedback I know people like to try to answer I mean surveys they like get the extremes that the poll are extreme that's right there and and where you get the probably the most truth is out of the the the open end of the the essay questions where people can input things that's where you can really see what's going on well I think from a from an engagement from a manager perspective you know having those conversations with their people and not just their people with your peers as well is listening you know it's not a time to tell it's not a time to you know if you really want to gauge how people are feeling how they're how they're well being right if you want to gauge that then you really have to listen and be able to pick up on what is being said but also how it's being said you know I think that there's there's a danger in this question around tracking and measuring and part of it is this idea that there are plenty of people out there is like well we'll just we can build it into a dashboard and the the data will tell us everything that we need to know and I mean most of the responses I mean what you're saying the way I interpret that it and I agree is that it is it's the harder the more difficult path which is to actually talk to people yeah well I mean later on and we'll talk about this using the technology to you know maintain and improve well-being but I feel like technology it it's always just a tool in this cog it's in this in this wheel it's just a tool to to facilitate something and while we are a lot of us are remote still not all of us okay but while a lot of us are still remote we're gonna have to use that technology we're gonna have to use that to have those connections but it's still just it's still human connection um I don't think there's any way to just because I'm sending email at nine o'clock at night doesn't mean doesn't mean I'm my well-being's off it doesn't mean it necessarily right yeah it can but it actually doesn't mean that for everybody so we well I have to have that connection to interpret right well that's too as it's like like I have a global role I'm usually have uh at least a couple nights a week I have late night calls with with apac so I'm on the phone with people in Australia and Singapore and elsewhere uh and and so people might look at my calendar be like you have calls scheduled at seven and eight p.m. what's what's going on yeah and your tools may yell at you yeah yeah you know to say oh you're you're bad you know you're you're working bad hours you should stop that yeah no so there has to be that connection so question three is what are the leading risks for employee well-being and how does or should your organization mitigate those risks well I you know when we talk about well-being I mean the number one thing that comes to mind is burnout and to me that means working too hard for too long um and not having meaningful breaks and this is a term that I think is very important as we talk about how organizations can be a part of the well-being of employees but take let's step back to say you know we there are periods for me at least um and others that I've talked to where you just have to work hard they're you know there's days weeks where you're going to work more than what might be considered a normal work week just to to make things happen right um that's fine that can be fine but when those turn into months right and quarters and then you look back wow I just spent a year of working you know way too much then um you know from an organization perspective they're not getting as much value out of me if that's the case because um you know the the the kind of trade-off of that is I'm going to get burnout and either I'm going to stop provide providing good quality product or services or I'm going to go somewhere else because you know that whole grass is greener on the other side uh quick tip it's not but well well that's that and that's actually great because we have this the great resignation that's going on now where a lot of it is how it's interpreted is um and I and I agree with that it's you know people that are saying hey during this this period where everybody is looking to hire somebody they're damn it a difficult time finding people like why am I staying put in this crappy job where I'm poorly treated yeah or or I'm not making what I feel I'm worth yeah and it's fun it's funny though because I also um I you know all this stuff is cyclical right I was reading an article last week that was talking about um some a survey came out that people there was a great percentage it was 30 something percent regret leaving their company during this great resignation um so the grass is not always greener on the other side you can be in a toxic work environment and you probably should leave sure but you know I feel like organizations can do things like making meaningful breaks a priority it's not going to solve everything but a meaningful break um again this goes back to that connection it's not necessarily the same thing for everybody but it includes things like making sure that we're not having back to back to back to back meetings all day long right there should be periods of time during the day where you don't have meetings there should be uh respect for work hours whatever those worker hours are there should be respect for time off and expected time off right meaning managers going wait you haven't had a day off in six months this is not helpful right you have to take time off or one of my favorite one of my pet peeves was having uh time and funds made available per employee for for going and doing training each year but then the perception was that if people utilized that funding which was set aside annual basis for employees but if you actually used it it was looked as a negative on your profile in your career trajectory like there's something messed up about that where we well i think um it's kind of on the flip side you take that same concept but look at it the other way um my first uh it job uh right out of college it was like a badge of honor that you had vacation days left over at the end of the year right that you oh i've got two weeks left over like wait you have two weeks left over and you don't get to use them how was that a badge of honor yeah when i was younger so here's the difference when i was younger and newly married and broke and you know baby that was you know in the house and and in brand new mortgage i was i found out that i was able to unused vacation days get the cash for it some yeah some companies made that decision that's right i made the decision to do that so it was a conscious thing but otherwise i agree that like you should force people to use their vacation and to take a break well and and it be again it's a relationship it really is and to know your people and to know um how that will uh really work with them and be beneficial for everybody um so i think it is very important to have meaningful breaks um uh little ones all the way up to you know days off it's funny it's like so it's another answer where we also kind of worked in there it's like if you're having regular conversations with with people on your team your peers your direct reports your manager you're gonna know about this stuff it's just a natural thing that happens it's like sales the more phone calls you make them the greater that you increase your chances of making a sale it's just a simple numbers game if you're having the conversations if you're having the interactions with then you're more likely to know about you know family issues or health issues or just being stressed out by volume of work or you know hey no they are working long hours but they're just like they've got ocd and add in this they love it you know like leave them alone they're good you know but you know that if you're having if you have that relationship for sure and i and you know when they want to take a different direction in their career right and you you know maybe they want to add a little bit of this or a little bit of that and what they're doing in their role uh that can make them so much more happier because it's something that they enjoy and really bring up their well being in the organization and it could be just something so simple and beneficial to everybody Question four was what is the difference between productivity and engagement and how does your organization view each um so i think productivity is tasks you know how many widgets did you make how many calls did you make um you know how many sites did you create you know i feel like productivity is really focused on numbers and where you did you get the thing done you know engagement um i believe really involves it's kind of the word that kept coming to my mind was presence um it's really it is being there you know it's being attentive to what's going on and knowing what's going on it's being available to have conversations to jump in when needed and really being approachable of of being open you know literally have an open door policy of you know someone can come and talk to you and and just being there being part of the action i guess i i think is i think of much the same way it's it the quantitative the things you measure and the qualitative activities because that's the i guess the hard part is for and i've heard of plenty of organizations that have started to talk about increasing engagement and i was my first question of that is like well what do you actually mean by that how are you defining engagement because are you measuring it are you just swapping the name with productivity and treating it the same way or and so there's organizations that are like no no no we're we're trying to realize it's it's a more esoteric thing here's how we're defining it and trying to measure track and measure that yeah because you can be you can be um engaged and not productive but vice versa too you can be productive and not engaged and i think there is a balance um i think organizations want productivity right but in the long run uh productivity without engagement uh doesn't get you the success you know you can't really obtain that level of success that you could have if you had a great balance of both is your company track engagement we do not using technology again it's relationship so things like having all company meetings or having our scrums and having those one-on-ones you know really gauging that and um i'll tell you i've missed a few of those meetings because i've had other things i had to attain too um and uh you know getting three or four people ping me hey saw that you weren't in that meeting what's up with that you know what's going on what do you know what you know i think that type of uh and that's them being engaging right we are talking about me not being engaging because i wasn't there that presence but that's them engaging me to make sure that there's nothing wrong to make sure hey is there something i can take off your plate you know to to help you um so it technology is nice and and we each individuals can use technology to track those kind of things and i think it probably is good you know use one note or something to to jot down your notes about your conversations with people but um but it really is relationship we agree uh let's see uh question number five what is the role of community and collaboration in your organizational strategy for employee well-being so this kind of plays off of that i mean you just talked a bit about the community aspect of that i mean is that actually part of your company strategy so i took this as in two two kind of lanes one is that yes that i don't know if it's strategy or if it's just the way we do things you know it's just you know there's not a policy you know being on the on the leadership team we don't sit there and go well we we need to be engaged and we need to do this it's just kind of the way part of your culture yeah it is it really is um now if your organization doesn't have that in your culture then you're probably going to need a strategy right to help um your managers and your directors to to figure that out um but culture is just it's the it's the practice of uh you know what are the habits you know and so they're healthy and unhealthy habits and so that's the you know kind of as you point out to change the culture it starts with like that strategy and repeatable activities and encouraging people to to do certain ways and then it just becomes part of the way that your company operates exactly um the second kind of lane i took this in was also community outside of the organization and i it is it really does bring um it is a part of that well-being of uh i am i can be part of something that's bigger than me you know that's not part of this work so being part of a community whether that's a community that is boxing up food you know put together food boxes for the needy or that's tutoring kids in special districts or it or that's technical community all the above whatever but being part of that community experience i think helps in the workplace as well not just from what i learned but it's those experiences and and it grounds you right and and makes you connected so i think that's very important it is very important and so and that the so here's the technology question question six yeah though how can organizations leverage technology to maintain or improve employee well-being well you know i think we let's go and mention viva you know viva insights i think can help here i heard a real world experience viva insights where uh you can look to see well a particular group in an organization where they were not having one-on-ones managers were not having them at all so you can tell oh you're not doing that so let's talk about doing those so you can start having those connections right it's maybe a little forced initially but you know making it to where it becomes part of the that culture of that small group right or that department that wasn't doing it so technology can happen uh can help right and it can help in this well-being and help maintain that but i think you know as we are i feel like we're going to stay hybrid moving forward mostly you know in those organizations that can stay they're going to be hybrid there's going to be people who go or in offices but then there's going to be people at home or working remotely and i think that's going to necessitate having technology and using technology to connect us and to make sure that we're connected and to really improve the way we work with each other and to keep that well-being up so you know using microsoft teams of course or you know comparable technology but being able to have those conversations and staying in touch is going to be very important but we have to be i think very mindful of how we use those to listen you know i said i mentioned that earlier but how can we use technology to hear other people rather than push our message out is how can we use technology to hear them whether it's surveys or it's those one-on-ones or in group settings how can we use technology to have team events together you know i think that is going to be very important in what becomes this um this this hybrid way of working from from now on you know one of the things that i do i find myself more and more where i'll sit and we're having a conversation and we're chatting we're going back and forth and i just started just uh it was like like can we just chat like we're sitting here typing and doing this yeah we have the tool it's the same tool we're using teams hit the button to the camera and have the conversation and have that interaction and it is it's so much more meaningful uh to have that and to see a face and have that interaction than it is to sit there typing with people i agree and you don't get the inflection you don't get the body language you don't get um we've really lost that um and and with with technology it can be a a barrier to you know yes you it's easier to to communicate via and have that text and everything and but sometimes it really is just i need to see your face and i i need to see the way you present this and sometimes you can say something in text and if it was just said in person or over a video um it would have been much more well received than just through text of of um you know maybe it was something that they felt was critical or something like that and so i agree with you turn on video um at least turn on audio and have a phone you know or an audio call to do that you know i i i've done like the a lot of organizations that have done like the personality testing and of the different styles and i'm very extroverted shocker you know but i i would be would not be surprised to go and do it now two years after that you know into the pandemic and to see how many people that have gone more towards an introversion personality style or we just have all become a bit more agoraphobic we're just you know like do i need to go outside you know and we used to joke you know we saw the mugs at the beginning of teams like you know could that email have been a teams meeting or you know different plays on that i've seen the other way is like hey couldn't have that meeting been just an email you know on a mug as well and uh and now it's almost like i want to wear a t-shirt that says like did we really need to be in person i was like did i need to go outside uh which is where just where my pajama bottoms all day long every day which is very interesting because that is um going outside is one of my points for question number seven um so i think that's a very interesting point that you uh because we you're right we're you know we've been working we're our home for a lot of us our home has been our workplace and so it's kind of this we're used to it and you could go days and days just you know traveling to work and never step outside and never interact with anyone physically um in a one-on-one kind of uh in in discussion you know with and so i feel like um we've got to figure out how we can move on and get over that right and get to a point where it um because human connection is very important i think we've a lot of people have been saying it and it really is important and so how do we reclaim that but also realize that we're going to be using technology and we're going to be hybrid and all this but how do we reclaim that yeah i it's uh i don't think that we are done with the adjustment of what hybrid's going to look like and uh it's uh yeah i think i agree it's going to be interesting and we need to that's why i'm excited about so much focus certainly within the technology sector around this topic of health and well-being and how do we balance between this it's if nothing more it's it's uh encouraging the conversation and just before we get to question seven like here's a great i've shared this a number of times in different recordings but for a year of my life living in Sacramento i commuted on a motorcycle like i rode dirt bikes a bit when i was a kid and stuff but for a year that was my vehicle i got rid of my car i drove a motorcycle rain or shine i was a short commute but i i did that i had some scary experiences commuting um well so about a year and then i came out to go to work one morning and somebody had backed in and crushed my bike while it was parked overnight and so it was done and i went that weekend bought a car and and didn't go back what i happened afterwards is my entire life that was wow 25 years ago uh so young but that i uh i am much more aware of motorcycles on the road now i make extra room for them i like i'm sensitive to that and i think my personally i believe that since we all had this shared experience so many people that had never worked from home that never had to do so much through online collaboration communication uh being a remote worker for the last more than a decade my teams have always been a coast away like far away uh and so i was used to this but well a complaint that i had was that people would often forget about those of us that were remote and have conversations for projects initiatives that we owned or we drove but they would go and do things and not keep us in the loop and you can't do that whether we're across the aisle from each other in cubicles or across the country around the world we're working on a project like you need to be aware of who are my stakeholders who's the conversations and i think collectively we just took a couple steps up improved and in that and i i would sticks i would agree with you i've been doing the same consulting for i don't know 12 years now whatever it is and a vast majority of that was not in in the office was not at the client side even it was remote and sometimes just feeling left out you know because there was an office and decisions being made when i'd go into the office i'd be brought into those decisions or in those conversations but when i wasn't there i wasn't and it was just for you know out of sight out of mind and i i agree with you i think people have gotten the idea that you have to remember there's other people there and their voice is important and their experience is important and their life experiences work experiences can really help with that diversity that we're going to need when we tackle all these types of issues whether it's work issues or client issues you know customer issues so i think it's very important well final question here that we covered so when building an employee well-being strategy what three factors should organizations include within their planning and i cheated i did four um because i did three and then i did a bonus but um overachiever see you could you could have left off early by just leave that fourth one off no no i gotta keep working um the first is and i mentioned it before is meaningful time off and i talked about what that is but um really meaningful time off um when you take time off do something other than thinking about work don't pick your laptop to hawaii not that i ever did that not that you've never done um so making sure that you recharge your batteries as they say right um and number two is outside time um i really do feel like uh i feel bad when i don't go outside when at least a little bit per day um it really brings me down if i'm inside like at conferences and everything else if you're always but you know at home just being inside and um i've rearranged my office now to where there's a window right there and i can look out the window um just be outside do something outside to get that time and then the third thing i said is really focus on less stress engagements and what i really mean by that is um understanding what you're thinking about what you're stressing about what we're agonizing about from most of us is not life altering it is most of us it's not life or death you know it is something that um for me anyway i bring stress on myself that i don't need so don't bring stress to you that you really don't need focus on what you can do and when you can do it the bonus was have social engagement um and you know really provide support an organization providing support for their employees to have social engagement with each other but also outside um whether that's conferences or that's uh making sure you know in those conversations you're having with each other that you know when people don't talk about having social engagements at all invite them to yours right but you know it's and remember it's about connection um and i think that's important well daniel really appreciate you participating in the tweet jam again always welcome for everybody that uh you know these monthly tweet jams are uh you know they're daniel it's great having you here of course there were 31 other people also participating all with great input it's uh i get so much from the you know sometimes the validation of ideas sometimes is like i you know i've never thought of it that way or i that scenario or that industry it's just great to participate so i love having those community discussions but with that thank you for helping with this closing topic uh for this last month and hope to see you at the next one all right thank you so much