 David, you're good to start. Okay, good morning, good afternoon, good evening to everyone who is taking part in this session in whatever part of the world. You're very, very welcome to this technical working group on diaspora human capital. People with lots of valuable experience and expertise will be joining this session. And we look forward very much to a lively discussion and to what I'm sure will be very interesting presentations to begin with. I hope that out of this session, we can contribute some ambitious and forward-looking ideas which will make a significant contribution to the outcome of the Global Diaspora Summit. My name is David Donohue. I am a former Irish ambassador to the UN. I had an involvement in the negotiation of the Sustainable Development Goals. I was one of the two co-chairmen and I was responsible for putting a positive reference to migration into the SDGs and the 2030 agenda. I then had a similar role relating to the so-called New York Declaration on Migrants and Refugees, which mentioned in passing the role of diaspora organizations in support of the interests of migrants. And now I'm involved in civil society working with a number of academic networks on issues around migration and indeed refugees and the role of diaspora organizations. With that, let us begin the session, a few house rules to begin with. All microphones should stay muted apart from the person speaking. And I would ask you please to respect the time limits so that we can get the maximum participation and we'll be keeping a careful eye on that. There are a number of features on the Zoom platform with which most of you are probably already familiar, but you'll see them at the bottom of the screen, the chat function in particular and also reactions. If you press that, you'll see the raise the hand function which will be useful during the event. And when I let you in, remember to unmute yourself. It would be useful, by the way, if you could identify where you're from or your organization simply by adding something brief to the name that you have that we can see on the screen. So what you do is you go to the more function which is at the bottom of the screen and you hit rename and then you might put in, for example, John Smith NGO, something like that, it just would be, I mean, it's not just not vital, but it would be useful for the discussion afterwards. It enables us to recognize, broadly speaking, who you would be representing. Finally then, English of course is the language we're using, but there's interpretation available into Spanish or French. And again, you can see the interpretation feature at the bottom of the screen. So turning to the event itself, what we want to do here of course is focus on diaspora human capital. That's the particular interest of this session. So what do we mean by this? We mean the resources available to a country in terms of the skills, knowledge and experience which members of its diaspora communities living abroad have and the contribution which these resources can make both to the country of origin and indeed to the country of residents. Incidentally, it's not purely a country, it could be a smaller unit. We use the word diaspora in relation to regions or cities as well. We want to look at issues such as the knowledge transfers which can take place between the diaspora abroad and the home country or the country of origin and how these can be of benefit both to the country of origin and to that of residents. We want to examine how the skills possessed by members of a diaspora can be identified first of all, mapped as a work and then harnessed for the benefit of the home country and again the country of residents. We want to see how the experience they have gained in employment in the country of residents can be turned into benefits of various kinds for the country of origin. We want to hear what are the best practices that you may have come across what lessons you've learned which can be of value for the rest of us and in particular for policy makers and practitioners. We've been asked to look at three key questions which are the following. Number one, what recommendations can be made at the policy level to achieve global collaboration in relation to diaspora human capital? Number two, what recommendations can be made for programs to engage and to mobilize this human capital? And number three, who are the key actors who should partner with governments in order to increase this engagement to deepen it and how can we support such partnerships? So I would invite you to think about what the right policies should be and are there particular institutional mechanisms we should be looking at? For example, diaspora ministries in the country of origin or dedicated focal points for diasporas, that sort of thing. How can we generate a whole of government approach to the challenge of mobilizing the diasporas? How can we improve the quantity and quality of the data we have relating to diasporas? What communication strategies are needed to reach out to diaspora communities and to involve them? And should we design specific initiatives, programs to develop the potential contribution that diasporas can make? Should we be looking at international partnerships of some kind to strengthen the diaspora engagement? We really want to hear your expertise, your insights, your experiences on these questions and any others that you think are relevant to the topic we're discussing. So let me turn now to the government host country for this session, which is the Philippines. Philippines is represented by Christine Saleh, who is executive director from the office of the, let me just get it right, Christine, of the secretary of the undersecretary from migrant workers at the foreign ministry in the Philippines. Christine will speak to us for about 10 minutes after which an IOM representative for Butter Cancel will present a background paper for this session. We'll then hear three presentations arising from regional consultations, which have been held in different parts of the world in the run up to this summit. And then we'll have about an hour for a general discussion and I look forward to hearing your comments and indeed questions, queries at that point. I begin with the government host country. Christine, you have the floor. Thank you, David and the stickers delegates, partners in migration, good evening from Manila, good morning and good afternoon to from wherever you are now. The Philippines is honored to be the session host of the technical working group on human capital. And we would like to thank the international organization for migration for inviting us to be a part of this important dialogue and to share our country experience in this discussion. This century has been called the century of human mobility and migration. According to the IOM's migration data portal, there are now 230.6 million international migrants as of mid 2020. This comprised 3.6% of the total world population for that year. Although a vast majority of people still live in countries where they were born, it cannot be denied that there are billions of us that are impacted by these migrants to human mobility is even expected to increase. In fact, according to the IOM, it is predicted that there will be 405 million migrants by 2050. Therefore, it seems that there is no stopping migration. It is inevitable and even necessary and all it can do as stakeholders would be to manage them for the wellbeing of our societies and communities. The increasing recognition of links between diaspora engagements and development has been prevalent in the recent years as emphasized in the recommendations made in the 2013 diaspora ministerial conference. This conference was convened at a time when governments were seeking avenues to increase collaboration with diaspora communities, ultimately realizing their role in society and aiming to maximize their potential by first, recognizing that diasporas can build bridges between states and between societies and calling for this design of local and global strategies aimed at harnessing this potential. Second, stressing that communication and outreach are key to the design and implementation of policies and programs relevant to diaspora engagement. Third, highlighting the importance of an enabling environment in both countries of origin and destination to maximize the potential of diaspora engagement. Fourth, stressing the importance of strategic partnerships between states, international organizations, civil society and private sector to create the framework for diaspora engagement and thereby empower them to share and transfer their resources. And fifth, recognizing that the diaspora can play a role in crisis situations both during and after the crisis. There is certainly no single global approach to diaspora engagement to make sure that everyone benefits from it. We can adhere to the strategy of engaging, enabling and empowering diasporas or the three E's which was developed by the IOM as an approach to widen possibilities offered to diaspora communities in development processes. This three E's serve as a recurring framework to understand the role of stakeholders in diaspora engagement. Each one of us can enable our diasporas to reach their full development potential that effectively engage them and empower them to make a difference in the countries they come from and the countries they live in. As diasporas contribute to society, the resources that they can mobilize are similar to the resources that anyone can mobilize except for the fact that they can be mobilized in the way that links directly or indirectly to two or more countries. IOM categorized these resources or capitals as human, social, economic and cultural for us here in the human capital room. Human capital in diaspora engagements are understood in the sense of human resources. It encompasses a variety of aspects that is country specific. The specificity of diasporas human capital is that at least potentially it circulates. There is a circulation of skills and there is knowledge transfer that are forms of engagement that benefit global development. Members may be workers to contribute to the economy and competitiveness of the country where they live in and who may at the same time also engage in development processes in their country of origin. Both lower and highly skilled workers have an important role within the social economic fabric of the country where they reside. Similarly, when they return even temporarily to their countries of origin, they bring with them the experience they have acquired abroad. This is equally important during this COVID-19 pandemic when mobility was deeply affected and migrants were put in vulnerable situations. Many migrants found themselves stranded in countries of destination and many have also returned to their home countries due to employment contacts. The contributions of diasporas in an era of disruption are starting to be discussed and cultivated as we live through this global health crisis. An effective human capital diaspora engagement is one that considers scenarios in both countries of origin and destination and one that co-exist with each of its capacities. Therefore, the role of governments and stakeholders in facilitating human capital improvements should be articulated so efforts are made to utilize their potential. Moving forward, this discussion can propel states to initiate their own efforts and understanding to diaspora engagement, focus on investing human resources. With adoption of the global compact for safe, orderly and regular migration, or the GCM, there is renewed recognition of diaspora engagements as articulated in its objective 19. Today's group discussion can help us locate our current efforts as we head towards the International Migration Review Forum, Disney. Being a migrant-sending country, the Philippines is home to over 10 million overseas Filipinos all over the world. This has driven the Philippine government to develop a migration governance framework and establish institutions to serve Filipino migrants in their communities abroad. These lessons learned from decades' worth of experience enable the Philippines to become a GCM champion country inevitably supporting in all aspects the adaption and implementation of the GCM. Our Filipino workers overseas have since been an important sector to the Philippines with the remittances contributing 9.3% of the country's GDP and 7.8% of GNP. Thus, the government has several laws and services that provide protection to Filipino migrants in all stages of migration from pre-departure, on-site, and return in the integration. Active involvement of local civil society organizations is also vital for collaborations to promote their rights. Instrumental in advancing human capital contributions of the Filipino diaspora is the signing of Republic Act No. 11641, creating the Department of Migrant Workers, or DMW, which aims to protect the rights and promote the welfare of overseas Filipino workers. This act took effect last February 3 of this year. It is a groundbreaking achievement for the GCM implementation as it makes the Philippines the first country in the world to include in its law the progressive realization of the 23 objectives of the GCM. It is a step forward towards achieving our aspiration of making overseas employment a choice and not a necessity. The DMW was created to specifically address the issues and concerns of Filipino migrant workers as it will integrate all services offered by merged government offices and provide cohesion to existing policies, serving as a single destination for our overseas Filipino workers in checking available overseas jobs, processing and issuance of overseas employment certificates, legal assistance for cases, repatriation, reintegration, and other necessary assistance. We believe that the creation of this new department will now give our migrant workers a greater voice and representation in the government, even at the cabinet level with a designated secretary of migrant workers and with presence at the local and provincial levels. Finally, another milestone for the Philippine government is the incorporation of the GCM in the Philippine Development Plan or PDP, the country's blueprint for national development. A new chapter 21 is created, entitled Protecting the Rights, Promoting the Welfare and Expanding Opportunities for Overseas Filipinos. The creation of this standalone chapter on international migration is essential as the PDP is the government's overall framework in development planning, which guides national and local government bodies in formulating their programs, projects, and strategies. It also serves as the national implementation of the GCM and aims to ensure the safety and protection of both Filipino migrant overseas and foreign nationals so joined in the Philippines as they contribute to sustainable development. This is a testament to the Philippine government's commitment to the whole of government and whole of society approaches in achieving the GCM objectives. It is very clear that diaspora engagement has been the core of the Philippine's migration governance. We are proud of the initiatives we have done because we believe in our diaspora's potential in nation building, which will help our country to also achieve its GCM objectives. Therefore, the outcomes from the regional consultation and diaspora engagement conducted last week are imperative in the cultivation of these discussions as the continued cooperation and effective diaspora engagement, especially in mobilizing human capital is envisioned as the role of diasporas continue to increase over time. I wish you a very interesting discussion and thank you for your attention. Thank you very much, Christine. It was very, very interesting and very helpful, a very good start to our session. Thanks a lot. I now call on Roberto Cancel from the IOM to present the background paper for the session that I referred to earlier. Roberto, over to you. Thank you very much, David. We'll be just looking to share my screen one second. One second. Can you confirm that you can all see my presentation? Yeah, yeah. Okay, perfect. Thank you very much, dear participants, for this opportunity to share with you the background paper that we developed for the technical working group. I've shared the link also in the chat for those of you that didn't get the opportunity to read it ahead of time. Basically, we've tried to compile experiences and case studies from around the world that help to illustrate some of the potentials and possibilities for engaging with a desperate human capital. Just to reflect the framework that we're working in is, of course, Objective 19 of the Global Compact for Safe, Orderly, and Regular Migration. And when we look at the commitments they're under, there are several that actually touch on the topic of human capital. But I share, perhaps, the most direct reference, which is the Subpoint J, which speaks to building partnerships between local authorities, local communities, the private sector, aspirants, hometown associations, and migrant organizations to promote knowledge and skills transferred between their countries of origin and countries of destination. So we can see this directly speaks to the transfer of knowledge and skills as human capital through tasks or communities from countries of destination or between countries of destination and origin. Just quickly, let me make sure we're all on the same page. When we speak about human capital in this context, we define it as skills, knowledge, and experience possessed by an individual or a population viewed in terms of their value or cost to an organization or country or community, just to add that last point. So following the structure of the background documents, we'll first look at human, that's being capital in terms of countries of origin. And one of the first key areas discussed in the paper is what is referred to as research and development or the collection and analysis of data about the diaspora communities we want to engage with. In IOM's diaspora handbook, which we developed with the Migration Policy Institute back in 2012, we referred to this step as knowing your diaspora. In specific, the background document refers to three key questions, who is your diaspora, where is your diaspora, and what is your diaspora doing? And it gives you different breakdowns on each one of those in terms of defining the target audience, defining the countries and localities, and also understanding what are the skills and capacities and propensities to engage of this population. Some of the challenges identified are the accessibility of existing data, which for countries of origin are sometimes out of reach because they're collected and analyzed generally by countries of destination through census or household surveys. Other challenges are overcoming issues of trust or incentivizing participation of diaspora populations in data collection tools. So if new tools are being developed, how do we get people to actually engage and respond to those? Some of the new ways to actually move forward to data collection analysis is through using new technology and we shared a case study of skills mapping through big data used by Armenia to map its diaspora in the United States and in France. It used a mixture of analysis of website traffic and onomastics, or applied onomastics, which looks at identifying people whose names are of Armenian origin within different databases, like LinkedIn or university databases, that would then also fulfill the skills gap that is needed in the country of origin. Another example is data collection through collaboration with academia. And we share the case study of the Harvard Growth Lab study on the Albanian community in the United States. This study was done in collaboration between Harvard University, as you can imagine, and also the Open Societies Institute. And this is one example of several different communities that they collaborated on to be able to identify the general characteristics of these diaspora communities. Finally, I want to share one of the tools that IOM has developed. It's also referencing the background document, which is a diaspora mapping toolkit. It includes a step-by-step how-to guide for diaspora mapping, as well as very concrete indicators, questions, and tools for facilitating diaspora mapping in a standard and unified approach. It includes a core module of indicators, which should be included in all diaspora mappings to ensure a basic level of understanding of the characteristics of the community, and as well as objective specific modules that look at the different capitals that we're discussing in general. So there's one specific for human capital, as well as economic, social, and cultural capital that can be used depending on what is the overall objective of the mapping exercise. And there's also method specific modules looking at secondary data, quantitative data, and qualitative data, and how those different indicators can be translated into those different data collection approaches. This is currently being finalized in English, and we hope to have a Spanish version out quite soon. The idea being that we'd be able to then not only have data about one diaspora community at a time, but to have comparable data between countries to be able to do analysis at regional or even global levels and understand megatrends and diaspora engagement. So another thing that the paper looks at is the segmentation of diaspora and sectorial engagement. Basically, the first comment is looking at how within government we share data and share information so that engagement can be targeted more specifically to the specific motivations and expectations of diaspora communities. So being able to have a common and united picture of what these communities are like and what they can offer is very important. Then in terms of the case study, we share IOM's Connecting Diaspora for Development, which is a program that's been going on for several years based out of the Netherlands supporting diaspora professionals to return either temporarily or even virtually to the country of origin to provide the human capital and expertise to fill gaps that have been identified in specific sectors in their country of origin. Diaspora Knowledge Transfer is another key topic in here. The first point addressed is the role of government either as implementer or facilitator and a case study is provided for each. In the first case study of the Carnegie African Diaspora Fellowship Program, the government was a facilitator working with the Carnegie Foundation to facilitate the program. In the second case study, the RAISES program led by the Argentine government, the government directly implemented this program which has been going on for several years engaging scientists and academics from around the world of Argentine origin. Then we look at different levels of intervention that can be done through diaspora knowledge transfer direct assistance, for example, a case of doctors coming back to address specific needs where there's no local capacity. And then there's capacity development where using the same example, doctors would come and actually build the capacity of local physicians to address that need. And then finally, policy development where again, using the same example, physicians from the diaspora might come to help develop the health policy in locality or for the national government of origin. Finally, we look at mentorship and going digital. Mentorship allows diaspora members to be more engaged in supporting emerging leaders and change makers. And the case study for that is the Global Welfare Academy, my mentor. And then when we talk about going digital, one of the things we have to ensure is to avoid the challenge that going digital doesn't mean only digital. And we have to ensure that those that do not have access to internet or online platforms are not left or excluded from processes. And there are new tools and opportunities for collaboration for the next few years. For governments with entrepreneurs and innovators and here give the case study of localized, which is an online platform developed by a startup that facilitates the engagement of diaspora professionals for mentorship and knowledge transfer. A few preliminary reflections for countries of origin. It's important to establish government frameworks. The government framework should be embedded with external supporters, including diaspora leaders. The engagement should align activities with diaspora self-interest. The phase of human capital asks for diaspora to phase the ask, sorry, for diaspora capital from diaspora utilizing existing models and centralizing technology for diaspora capital. Moving on to countries of residence and different forms of diaspora communities that we must keep in mind, recent migrants as well as generations to communities. In one way of facilitating this is talent partnerships. For example, the case of the Pacific Australian Labor Mobility Scheme. And one of the lower grade potentials for diaspora human capital for countries of residence is market intelligence, allowing to facilitate the competitiveness of countries of residence in the international markets. Case study being insights by experts. And another aspect is diaspora diplomacy, where diaspora can help advance nation brand value creation. An example of that is the mid-finsome programs supported by the government of Finland. Preliminary reflections, centering access to participation for diaspora capital and key agencies, mainstreaming diaspora engagement into appropriate domestic informed policy portfolios in creating or supporting development of diaspora organizations and networks, advancing strategic communication platforms to illustrate impact and develop co-created instruments for diaspora to contribute in development of country of residence. And finally, a few recommendations that the policy level diaspora human capital must be mainstreamed across all relevant policy portfolios that can contribute to development. On the programmatic level, diaspora human capital engagement should in the short term be informed by replicable models of excess, while also expanding and engaging exploratory investment to embrace new technologies. In terms of partnership, diaspora human capital engagement should at minimum provide collaboration between institutions in countries of origin and residence, while also providing a seat at the governance table for key external implementation partners and most importantly, including diaspora. Thank you very much for your attention. Thank you, Roberto. That was extremely helpful and gives us a lot of food for thought about the kind of interventions one could imagine. I mean, both at the policy and at the institutional level. So I turn now to the regional presentations and as I mentioned earlier, we've had a number of regional consultations in preparation for this summit. And I have the pleasure of introducing two guests here, Claudia Quevedo, who is the project assistant for IOM in Paraguay and Yusuf Mohammed Mubarak, who's program coordinator at the Finland Somali Association. So Claudia will give us an account, first of all, of the Latin American consultation and then she'll be followed by Yusuf, who will report from the Europe Asia Pacific perspective on a consultation they've had. And then I'll ask Roberto to step in to give us a summary of what happened in the African consultation. So first of all, Claudia, over to you. Very much, let me share my screen. Now you can see it. Not yet, Claudia, try again. Not yet, okay. I can see it from my side. Oh yeah, I can see also. All right, then I'm just missing it. Okay, go ahead. Now it's gone, so if you can put it back up. Is it okay? Now we can see it. Okay, okay. Good afternoon, good evening and good morning everyone. Thanks for having me here today. It's a pleasure for me to present the inputs on the human capital findings and merging from the Latin regional workshops on diaspora hilariously in advance of the summit in the framework of the South American Migration Conference and the Regional Migration Conference. In relation to the political considerations for achieving answers in this area, the following challenges and opportunities identify are consular collaboration between different countries, encouraging the incorporation of professional in various key sectors, and encouraging their cognition of professional qualifications for effective integration and use of these skills. In what regards to programmatic considerations, some of the identified challenges and opportunities are the importance of promoting actions to increase the participation of the diaspora in projects linked to their countries of origin through incentive. Also, we have promoting the incorporation of the diaspora into training programs that will strengthen productive capacities and generate programs for the transfer of knowledge and experiences of professionals abroad for sustainable development. In relation to partnerships actions to achieve responses, in particular key partners and ideas to initiate partnerships, the link with international organizations, society, the private sector, universities, collective of people abroad such as networks of highly trained professionals abroad is mainly recognized. And finally, highlighting the three main priorities for empowering diaspora human capital, the following points that were identified are generating programs of transfer of knowledge and experiences of professionals abroad for sustainable development, and sharing consular collaboration between different countries. And finally, promote the diaspora incorporation in training programs to strengthen productive capacities and incorporation of professionals in various key sectors. With this, I finish my intervention. Thank you for your attention and I give the floor to our colleague representing the European Asia and Pacific region, Yusuf Mohammed Mubarak. He is current coordinator at the Finland Somalia Association. Thank you very much. Thanks, Claudia, thank you. Yusuf, over to you. Yes. I think you can see my presentation as well. Yes. Great. Yes, thank you very much, everybody. It was really my pleasure to be part of the working group discussing the importance of the human capital in a diverse way. In this specific work group, we have shared also our experience from the IOM projects, where I myself have been involved over 10 years, in particular in Somaliland and also South Central Somalia. In that specific project, it has made possible that over 300 expertise of various sectors to go back and participate the institutional capacity building and also the development of Somalia and in that part of the world. And that was, to my view also, as a follower of that project and as a partner with IOM on that specific project, a very successful intervention. And we thank the Finnish government and IOM from coordinating that and financing. In short, in terms of the factor of the human capital, when we speak about that, we all know that maybe we can lose money, but we cannot lose the human capital. When we have the skills and the knowledge with us and as a diaspora experts to go there and could be as experts also building the local capacity, particularly in the world and countries like in East Africa and Somalia and take part in the grassroots capacity building and institutional capacity building provide services in hospitals, in educational sector, in various government institutions and so on. And also the other participants in the work group have been experiencing the same views with what also in Somalia the intervention have shown to all of us. And in particular the mainstreaming have been discussed. This enable, engage and empower. All those are also some factors that the human capital is contributing in a significant way and in a significant manner. And also the discussion points that we have been raising in the political level, in the programmatic level and also in the partnership level. These have been our findings and comments. In this specific work package, a work group we have discussed in a diverse manner the importance of a human capital factor and the diaspora experts involved in projects, knowledge, social and emotional point of view. In the point one, it has been acknowledged that the host country's benefit from the human capital factor of the diaspora expert parties in many ways and in contribution is via knowledge transfer and also best practices sharing as this has also been mentioned in the previous presentations. We have also pointed out and underlined that diaspora experts play a key role in institutional capacity building in the host countries. Point three, we have acknowledged that local actors, local government, government institutions, civil society, local community engagements has also been important in promoting local development efforts in the hosting countries. And in point four, we have acknowledged that policy makers and also the developing clear guidelines has also been important and it's important also as a factor this so that the diaspora experts contribution support in best possible manner, the national development balance goals and objectives of the hosting countries. It has also been discussed and seen important that in the future also to involve with diaspora experts in livelihoods and climate resilience interventions and use in there also diaspora experts, expertise and knowledge. In short, the policy level, we have seen that what's needed to develop in the future is a clear guidelines and policy documents for diaspora contributions and to make that a clear also in the policy level. And in a programming level to increase collaboration between diaspora and the host communities to get a better outcome. And so that not to see also that there is a competition between them but they complement each other. And in the partnership level to increase and enhance digital platforms to gain a better experience and make possible matching, better matching and networking also. Thank you very much. Thank you, Yusuf, very helpful, thank you. Now, Roberto, would you present from the African perspective? Yes, of course, David, I'll share a few points I was able to extract from the notes. I don't have a presentation that hopefully these will still help inform the discussions. At the policy level, some of the things that were highlighted is that it would be important to have to ensure that there is an interlocutor department able to put diaspora in policy development within all the countries in Africa as this is not the case everywhere. It's also mentioned that there are numerous policy frameworks at the national, regional and local level but there needs to be more empirical evidence to be able to generalize information. It is also mentioned that countries should develop specific diaspora policies. For example, Namibia is working on it as well as Zimbabwe. And Zambia has a diaspora policy in place since 2019 is mentioned. In terms of challenges on the policy level, Braindrain was noted as a major challenge for Africa. Specifically, Ghana mentioned being concerned about this topic. It's also mentioned the need for better data collection mechanisms to be put in place as a concern at the policy level. In terms of opportunities, some examples were provided. For example, the diaspora policy in Kenya, which is embedded in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Zambia has a diaspora policy as well and is conducting surveys to collect data. And in general, it is mentioned as an opportunity. Diaspora should be incorporated, not just in local national level alone, but also facilitated across the continent. In terms of the program level, it is mentioned the proposal for establishing databases and mapping surveys within Africa to identify human capital and diaspora, as well as conducting brainstorming seminars at the sub-regional levels. In terms of challenges, funding was highlighted as a major challenge. And in terms of opportunities, as mentioned, tweening arrangements or soft projects on human capital could be supported, for example, for schools or institutions and to support technology acquisition. In terms of key actors that were mentioned, government, religious institutions, media, women's groups, youth groups, electoral management bodies, embassies and missions abroad were all noted, as well as professional associations of diaspora as a potential partner, which could be reached out to. As overall comments, as mentioned, that further research is needed on the needs assessments to obtain empirical evidence and more information to advance in this area. That is all. Thank you so much. Thank you very much, Roberto. I mean, one of the themes that's coming through quite strongly here, I think, is that diaspora engagement can bring real benefits for countries of origin and countries of residence. So it's really a kind of a two-way process. That's one thing that strikes me. Another is the strong emphasis from those regional reports on the role that diaspora can play, indeed, must play in sustainable development. I think that that is something of increasing importance. And then, thirdly, the role of data. We need to improve the range of data we have, the way in which it's collected. We used to need to look at how technology, how digital platforms can help us to accelerate and improve the amount of data we can get on diasporas and the contribution that they make. And I thought that there were a number of good ideas there. I mean, 20 arranges, for example, individual initiatives at the level of individual stakeholders. So whether it's governments, civil society, the private sector, there's a lot of scope for initiatives that each can take to strengthen the contribution of diasporas. Partnerships of all plans need to be developed. So those were among the points which struck me from three really very, very interesting presentations. So that brings us then really to our discussion. We're doing quite well on timing. I'll just remind people once again of the three basic questions which we were asked to address in this session. The first one is what recommendations to be made at the policy level to achieve global collaboration on this human capital aspect. What recommendations can be made for programs to engage human capital? And then finally, who should be the key actors? In a way, our discussions up to now and those regional presentations have touched on those bases and have given us some good pointers there. Before I launch into discussion proper, I'll just take Charles Sennessey, who has raised his hand. Charles, please unmute yourself and intervene. Charles, so I see your hand up. You're very welcome to, Charles, there you are. Yeah, would you like to intervene? Yeah, thanks very much. And it's been three wonderful presentations. And I know Roboto very well, the other colleagues and then it's really very thought provoking. And of course, I said to Roboto, he will capture the issue of as mentioned in his presentation. Now my main issue is the issue of data capturing so that at least we can harmonize the process if we can so that the data we captured will be used across so many other areas of interest in terms of what we call external validity, which means we call according to the same level platform so that data could be replicated in many instances. And it should be very interesting and I like the idea of the diaspora mapping tool which Roboto introduced. We are struggling to map up the diaspora. It's come as such an opportune time for a lot of the us engaging diaspora mapping. I can't wait to have those tools share with us because I will be going down next week to Sierra Leone. They have called upon the diaspora to help shape the healthcare delivery system and I've been in the forefront of mapping the diasporas, especially not only in healthcare, but in health support institution. So it will be something we can use for external validity so that at least we can have standardized data that could be used for implementation purposes. And I'm quite curious how can we scale to this data capturing? Actually the one aspect of that question has been answered to have the standardized tool. So at least we can use it in capturing this data cut it across all levels of activities. And I'm quite open to more suggestions of how can we actually standardize the data capturing to be used in healthcare delivery, in educational engagement. I want more by clinics with continuous medical professional development across the whole of Africa. And I'm very, very interested in diaspora mapping also for the home country. How best can we use these tools, especially in country like Switzerland where I've been for 18 years where the government engages the diaspora in several levels of fora. And even within dealing with the police, the migrant with the police, we have the Swiss African Forum where they invite the diaspora and the Swiss institutions so that we understand ourselves better. The police, what should you do as a diaspora when you are invited by the police? What should you do? What should you not do? And we play football, we mix inter-cultural. But then we also, they are curious who are these diaspora people? What skills do they have that we can access, we can harness so that they make our work easier? And but our home country is even more important. So I think it's a very good approach, Robert too. And wonderful presentation by Youssef as well. I thank you very much. Thank you, Charles. So let's take perhaps the first question to begin with the policy issue. Let's try and structure our discussion that way. Are there particular priorities which people would like to see posed in relation to policy? You're very welcome to have the floor. I'm just keeping an eye on the trash in case people come in that way or else just put your hand up, usually raise the hand function. So don't be shy, just and when I see your hand I'll give you the floor straight away. Okay, well, many people are in fact not using the video. So it's rather hard to see. Okay, Roberto, have you picked up any questions yet that have come in through the chat? Mostly comments, mostly from Dr. Charles. But I do see Kevin Brown has his hand up. Okay, Kevin, please on Youssef to come in. Hi, thank you, David. I missed some of the presentations, but I just wanted to make some quick comments on human capital. So I sit on the global Jamaican Diaspora Council and on the council, I also lead the partnerships working group. In terms of that, diaspora engagement around human capital, I think that is the next frontier for all governments. Governments have for many years now embraced the financial contributions of the diaspora, but in my opinion, they're yet to fully engage with the human capital. And I'll start with this example. I'm from Jamaica, a very small country, but immigration is quite impactful. Over 80% of tertiary-educated Jamaicans leave the country. So your best and your brightest are overseas. And so in my opinion, what the government should be doing is when it is creating its national plans and development plans, the diaspora should be interwoven into these policies. But unfortunately, we're not necessarily seeing that happen. And so my observation is that engagement with Jamaican human capital is incidental. It's not planned and it's not sort of ingrained in the government psyche at all levels. And I think that is the big challenge that we're facing, not just in Jamaica, but I think other governments as well have not truly embraced the wealth of skills and knowledge that the diaspora could bring. And I think that's where we need to go next. How do we get governments to do that is still a huge challenge because there is a trust deficit. And the other problem I would say is political in that most countries, the diaspora doesn't have the right to vote. So politicians are focused on voters. They're focused on who's gonna keep them in office. There are certain practical challenges that limit the influence that the diaspora could have as well on policy and what matters to the governments. So, but I hear governments making the right sounds, but the mechanisms to engage human capital is still evolving. Two very, very good points there, Kevin. Thanks for that. And in fact, there's something that's relevant here is I see a comment from Mark Russell of the Networking Institute. And Mark asks the very important question, do we think that it's more advantageous to have a sort of standalone, separate diaspora engagement policy or should we embed diaspora engagement in existing policy structures? One can see the arguments in favour of both. I suppose the risk with a standalone policy is that it becomes a little bit isolated. It's seen as almost an add-on. It's not quite part of central government planning. Whereas I think Kevin brought out very clearly there that the problem that in say his government or in the Jamaican government, there isn't actually a systematic focus on the skills and resources that the Jamaican diaspora contributes. So how do you, what's the best way to go about it? Do you have standalone policy, separate say minister for the diaspora or whatever, or do you try to integrate diaspora policies, diaspora oriented policies across the normal education, research, business, et cetera, portfolios? What do people think about that? It has to be integrated David, that's the point. So for example, Jamaica has very good standalone policies for the diaspora. Jamaica has a national diaspora policy. It's created a framework that governments that include in the global Jamaican diaspora comes that I sit on, the government has done well in terms of standalone diaspora policies, right? The problem is that when you look across the wider government framework or landscape, that's the problem. That's where things aren't necessarily working as fluidly as they could and should. So the diaspora continues to do what the diaspora does best, which is they give donations, they give in kind when the government calls upon them in times of crisis or whatever the case may be. But we don't have an integrated national plan whereby every policy that the government puts out should include the diaspora's involvement. That's where we want to get to, completely interwoven, completely joined up. Yeah, Charles. Yeah, Kelvin, I very much agree with you. And there should be a standalone, but there should be efforts not only from the host country but from all the diasporas to make sure that we try to be part of the system so that we are integrated into it. I run more by clinics all over Africa. I take professionals from different specialties down to Africa. And one of the greatest problem is that people lose contact with their home country or continent of origin. And when they go down to hell, they don't know where to begin and they criticize a lot. And then there is a gap between us and those you meet home. So we are there to compliment their efforts. If you criticize, criticize constructively. So I take my example of what we do as a team. We go down, we align ourselves with the government. No matter what your opinion about the government, they are the custodian of the health or the custodian of the welfare of the people, just like the WHO. So you have to align yourself. You have to respect the local institution. Then you can flow into it. I was not surprised a poor country like Sierra Leone buying my air tickets, taking care of every social I can contribute because I've been going there twice a year. I'm part of the system. I don't see myself as an outsider. So even though the institution is there, with the diaspora, we have to do everything possible to align ourselves with the institution so that you march into it respectfully. But if you go, you stand for a distance and criticize and they take a defensive stand. So I think that has worked in most of the diaspora people I take back to no matter which country, Zambia, Kenya, Blue 35 years and encourage them to gradually and be part of the system, understand how it works and constructively criticize them and then march yourself into it. With that, it all goes for that sense of ownership of what you go with, it all goes for sustainability. It's very crucial. I thank you. Thanks very much, Charles. Any other requests for the floor? There's a comment from you, Seth, in the chat. Yes. There's a hand from Nigeria. Nwaja, we'll take the Nigerian intervention, please. Thank you very much. I just wanted to add my voice to what the other speakers have stated and say that in Nigeria, we have a comprehensive diaspora policy which sets out among other objectives for the government to engage, empower and enable Nigerians abroad to contribute to national development. And we also have a national diaspora commission which supports and complements the work of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and by extension, other embassies and consulates around the world. And for also to have better interaction with diasporans, we also have established an annual diaspora investment summit to provide a platform for investors and interact with potential partners, sponsors, financiers and official regulators. So these are some of the things that I can share from our own country perspective that, you know, and how we work out our own diaspora policy. Thank you. Thank you, Nadam. Can I ask just my own interest then, what's the position about political participation for the Nigerian diaspora? To what extent can it vote in elections? I'm just, I'm trying to gauge how integrated the diaspora are with the country of origin. For that, there had been discussions to also include that, unfortunately, to include diaspora voting in the electoral bill, which was adopted to be the electoral act. But unfortunately, it didn't pass this time around, but I'm sure that there will still be conversations around that because we have a very large diaspora community who are very, very important to national development and also willing to participate in this, so the conversations will definitely continue. Yeah, no, no, I can understand that. I mean, as it happens, we in Ireland have a lot of experience of a large Irish diaspora. I see Mark and Russell there nodding. I mean, Ireland's own population at home is tiny compared to the size of the diaspora abroad, but perhaps partly for that reason, we also haven't yet given significant political representation to the diaspora. I think it'll come, it'll come gradually. I see Yusuf's comment there is a good one about, if you take, for example, climate change, that there is a contribution which the diaspora in all societies can make to tackling the problems of climate change and resilience, and we need to find some way of building in the diaspora's contribution there. I think that's a very interesting point that people wanted to reflect on. Marvin, sorry, you have the floor, Marvin Russell. Yeah, thanks, David. I just wanted to kind of maybe unpack a bit as well, something that Dr. Kevin Brown said, because I think it's important. You know, we've seen a lot of interest, particularly from countries of Ireland, about designing diaspora policies, and I think, you know, just stepped in integrating it across the different ministerial portfolios. I think they're not necessarily exclusive to each other. Quite often the first diaspora policy can help educate different players across government, both the importance of the topic and it can help in terms of the integration process. But I think he said something really important, and it's something that we've been learning a lot in our work, working with governments around the world in terms of diaspora engagement, is that, you know, diasporas, we often say, have time, talent, and treasure. And the more that we talk to diasporas, they tend to like to engage in that order, in the sense of giving their time, their talent, and their treasure. You know, and quite often in diaspora policies, I think Kevin hinted at it is that, you know, the economic development focus has been the priority one. So I'm just wondering in a sense of, you know, even in designing those policies, whether they're standalone or integrating across, you know, are we getting the flow of activity right in terms of how we're engaging diasporas from a policy level? And, you know, should human capital come before that economic capital engagement that other people have reflections on? You know, of course they'll connect to each other in different areas in the sense of, you know, talent and skills can contribute to get social economic development. But I'm wondering from the diaspora perspective, in terms of designing policies or interventions, is the ask more favorable to begin with human capital rather than say economic capital? Because I think that could be a key lesson from the technical work of you. Thank you. Thanks, Martin. David, if I could just quickly respond to Martin. Sorry. Because I think it's important. The answer is yes, Martin, because if you're in a country where 80% of your tertiary educated population is leaving, then where are you going to get? Where's your intelligentsia? Jamaica's intelligentsia, Martin, is overseas. Jamaica's intelligentsia is in the diaspora. So as a government, I would see it as a priority to engage that human capital. That's where you're going to get your expertise from. You know, but unfortunately, you know, we're still on that journey. We're not there yet in terms of how do you get that diaspora to bring back their knowledge and skill sets? Yeah, I see requests there from Karen Yasubian. I'm guessing you're from Armenia, Karen, are you? You're very welcome. Please take the floor. Hello, David. I'm Karen from Armenia. I'm representing the Office of the High Commissioner of Diaspora Affairs. And I would very quickly like to tell you about how we engage with our diaspora and human capital. I related a lot of things that were said today about that human capital being in the diaspora, about the diaspora, like the easiest thing for them to be is to provide financial aid. But we have also contemplated over how we can engage our diaspora further. And one of the things that we are now doing is we have the E-Cords program, which has been running since 2020. So this is the second year and we're now recruiting for the third year where we actually bring in diaspora Armenians from the diaspora, experts and professionals in their own different spheres. And we bring them in to actually work within the Armenian government for a year. During that year, they are able to influence policy, best practices. They bring in their knowledge and their expertise. And we are hoping that through that we're also encouraging professional repatriation. Our first year statistics, seeing that was a very, very difficult year for Armenia as well as internationally, seeing as there was COVID as well, actually proved very successful because at the end of the first year, 70% of us, I was also one of those first E-Cords participants, decided to stay in Armenia. Whether they repatriated or not, I think it's so hard to say, but currently we have a very big number of the first year participants still in Armenia. Some moved to the private sector, others like me are still within the public sector, but this has proven to be a very good way as to engage that in order to also develop the country's infrastructure. Very interesting, yeah. Thanks, Karen. Roberto, I'll give you the floor. I think Charles had the hand up first. Sorry, yeah. Charles. Thanks a lot. Just two short interventions. First of all, I didn't want the question from Youssef about climate change to get lost, and it's quite crucial that we as a diaspora actually take that as a topic. I'm a physician and a researcher, but I've got a firm in Sierra Leone about 100 acres where we do tree planting, we do things to support the ecosystem. And these are initiatives we can align also with what have great players on the continent who are doing tree planting also revamp the ecosystem again. I'm not an expert, but I would like that the issue of climate change is really broken down to the simple level of the physician for me to understand how can I contribute? And that the diaspora can do very well. If I can explain to my grandmother in the village what a climate change is what she can do, plant trees to support the ecosystem, I think we are a long way in that direction. So I really like it to be broken down to that level also. And back to the issue of who are the key actors in the area of policy development. I think the government is what's one that we have to comb in upon and also support government, support the institution as well as the international community, the UN and when it comes to the health, the WHO no matter our opinion, they are the custodian of the health of the world. So let's align ourself with them in terms of policy that will actually have a long-term sustainability including IEA which is not a year supported institution. Thank you. Thanks, Charles. Roberto. Thank you. Thank you, everybody for the interventions and comments. I just want to reflect a bit on Martin's question or comment about whether human capital should be a first step. I fully agree. I think it is often the easier ask note for people to respond to. But I think the way Dr. Kevin responded I think was quite important. He noted the statistic about the percentage of tertiary educated Jamaicans abroad. And I think that's what's quite important is when we're talking about where governments should intervene, it's actually knowing the specific sectors where there is potential for that for engagement. So if you have a large tertiary educated population abroad, then of course, human capital should be your priority. But it shouldn't be your exclusive focus because you're also going to have day laborers, for example, that maybe do feel more comfortable just sending a few dollars to a fund or through crowdfunding. So it's to know what are the different sectors and different profiles in the diaspora and targeting different interventions that respond to the capabilities and the desires of these different sectors. And of course, again, the first step of that is just having data and having good information. Thanks, Roberto. Evan Garcia from the Philippines, please intervene, Evan. Can you hear me? There you are, that's great, yeah. I can't switch on my camera. Anyway, I would first of all like to convey a profound appreciation to the government of Ireland for so manfully and womanfully stepping up to the job. Have to be careful nowadays. Yeah, I just wanted to pick up on what was said by the IOM. It is absolutely important that we understand by data and research the segmentation of diaspora populations. If we only look at the high day educated, that's one whole universe with its own dynamics. But as was pointed out, there are day laborers, domestic workers, a very large population of semi-skilled or unskilled, they would say workers. They are also potentially active contributors on two aspects. One, they can help contribute to the safety and welfare of diaspora populations themselves in cooperation and partnership with the government. And they could, for example, at the level of their home village or hometown, provide certain inputs to support development there. Maybe not in terms of a lot of money, but in terms of getting information back to the hometown. So it's important to segment or have an understanding of the nature of diaspora populations because each segment will generate its own dynamic and its own potential. So I hope that contributes somewhat. Thank you. Thanks, Ed. Charles, you had your hand up. Sorry, sorry. I should put it down. Sorry. David, there's a few comments in the chat. Would you like to share them? Please do, Roberto. Yes, I see one here from Mellick Pullout Connick about a lot of the days. Yeah, would you like to pick out a few? Sure, I'll start with a comment from Elizabeth Melling. She's a colleague of Dr. Kevin Brown on the Global Jamaica Diaspora Council. And she says, we do need to have the diaspora fully integrated international development policies and involved in the process. I listened with interest to Charles Sinesi regarding how Sierra Leone engages diaspora. I work with their community here in England and it is interesting that their government will always consult their diaspora first for advice then to non-nationals as they are aware that their diaspora have an innate knowledge of national issues, inter alia, and a deep national commitment. So thank you, Elizabeth, for that comment. And then from Mellick, she is sharing with us the model from an earlier session on mobilizing human capital in digital platforms to support women in the workforce, Turkish win, which she is the founder if I'm not mistaken. So thank you, Mellick, for that contribution. Then there's some additional comments from Yusef. He says, also important factor to notice an underline in the Horn of Africa. Diaspora returnees are also playing a key role in creating companies, businesses, and employment. I believe the situation is the same also in the other countries. And that's all. Those are very interesting points. Maybe we might just focus a little bit now on what kind of institutional mechanisms can be devised to help to mobilize the diaspora. I mean, what do people think from their different perspectives? Does it make sense to have, for example, a ministry or a minister for the diaspora? Or should we, you know, what are the pros and cons of creating kind of a standalone institutional capacity? Does it work really? I'm just wondering whether people from a governmental perspective can have more to share that. I mean, we heard from Christine earlier about what the Philippines are doing. Are there others on this session who have a background in government who might be able to give us their views and insights on that? OK. Or even people, let's say, from a non-governmental perspective, do you see, oh, sorry, here's Aida Garcia from Peru. Please, you have the floor. Muy buenos días. Buenas tardes a todos. Good morning. Good afternoon, everyone. Good afternoon. In the case of Peru, at the general directorate for Peruvian communities abroad in the foreign affairs ministry of Peru, we do a follow-up of the communities that we have abroad. In the case of Peru, we have approximately three million Peruvians around the world. That means that 10% of our population lives abroad. Now, we've seen some minutes ago, someone said that there was a segmentation of this diaspora population. And it is really difficult to communicate and to reach all of them. First of all, we carry out a survey. We are now doing our second world survey among the Peruvian communities abroad. We've seen that it is really difficult to reach to a minimum sampling amount so that this survey is valid from a statistical perspective for it to be relevant. So this issue that David is mentioning is really important. How do we communicate? How we can reach a community that is living in different realities all over the world? And in each country, they are going to have different features that will have different levels of inclusion in the hosting country, also different links with the country of origin. It's really difficult. We try to do it through these surveys. But again, it's a really difficult exercise. It's really difficult to reach these people. As a country that traditionally was an emigrating country, we have many consulates all over the world, a great network of consulates, and also cultural programs in order to keep this link with Peruvians abroad. But the reality is not all Peruvians living abroad are going to have the same closeness or relation with the government. So if I rise, it was quite interesting. We wanted to hear about any experience that others other countries could share. Thank you very much. Thanks, Saida. No, that's a very interesting point. I mean, I imagine that it must be the same for many countries that the diaspora is so varied. You can have people who've just emigrated last year or last week, and you have others who have never perhaps lived in the country, but who are of Peruvian descent. And you have lots of different socioeconomic backgrounds. So I relate that very much to the Irish experience. I can think of young, relatively well-healed Irish people who have emigrated to Australia last week. And there might be people in Britain who are of Irish descent, but have quite a different socioeconomic background. And really, the diaspora is very diversified. And it must be, I imagine, the same for many countries, which just adds to the challenge of trying to understand how you can mobilize, how you can engage the diaspora better in the life of the country of origin anyway. Has anybody else, Charles, sorry, would you like to come in again, or is that still from the ascent? No, no, sorry, that's very interesting. You're welcome, there's any points. Yeah, yeah, I'll be leaving soon. But anyway, it's quite an interesting discussion. And in terms of, there's no fixed answer to how could we integrate the diaspora, either as a single institution or integrated, maybe a midway point. I take the example of Sierra Leone again. The office of the diaspora was located in the office of the presidents to just give it a high level. It was a unit. Now it is being upgraded to a full directorate with lots of staff. It has evolved over the years. Where maybe out of its humanitarian crisis, lots of the diaspora, like most of us, we raise resources, human material and financial, be it the Ebola, be it the COVID, be it the multilights, be it the petrol tank. So we are always on the forefront. So we put ourselves in a position where they say, hey, let's get these people in a better coordinated fashion so that at least they can give that input in a more coordinated way. And that's what gave right to the office of diaspora in the Ministry of Health recently, which I'm going to go to support and bring other people on board. Even in the host country in Switzerland as well, the diaspora has been slowly institutionalized. In Switzerland, we have the African Diaspora Council, which is made to bring all the diaspora organizations so that we can meaningfully engage the government. And I spoke about the Swiss African Forum wherein we've made a group of think tankers institutionalized so we can engage the government in diaspora specific problems. We know our problems. We can relate better. We can tell our stories better. So I can see that slowly getting a diaspora group institutionalized will be a better coordinated way of service delivery, be it in agricultural health in whatever field. I limit myself to agricultural health is what I know best. I don't know about the other economic or civil. Slowly I run a network where I bring all professionals in different points of politics, finance, engineering, and we all work together in the coordinated fashion in German, in brackets. So that's where I think there is no fixed answer to that but let's try different models until we get there. But the good news is that if we are all driven by one passion to help, by one vision, all our differences will align themselves. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Charles. Kevin, would you like to come back? Yes, thank you, David. I appreciate that there might be some complexity and of course you have to look at diasporas as various segments. But I guess what would be helpful and certainly Dr. Charles gave a good example of Sierra Leone is that if governments made integration of the diaspora in national development an ideological position, we would see a paradigm shift. Because if it was an ideological position that the diaspora is literally not a separate entity or a group of people, but actually very much so part of the nation, then every policy, every policy, every even legislation would look at how is it, how is the diaspora going to be impacted and how can they be included? And if we get to that stage, then it would definitely, I think certainly for small island states like Jamaica be very impactful because just imagine, in Jamaica's case you've got almost three million more people whose talents you can tap into, whose talents you can call on, whose talents will be there, not just incidentally, what would have been deliberately interwoven into everything the government does. Because unfortunately, David, what happens is that what we're observing sometimes is that when Jamaica needs expert help, it calls upon non-nationals. And in part sometimes this is fueled by the donors, right? So we can't ignore that other challenge where donors insist on who is going to be the expert in the room. But what we're saying is that these experts sometimes that are non-nationals, actually you could find them in the diaspora, but we just don't have that mechanism to make sure that they're there. And so I hope that going forward, governments will take a more ideological position that the diaspora is definitely a sort of one nation approach. No, you raised a very interesting point there, Kevin. I wonder whether colleagues are aware of, let's say national constitutions around the world which make explicit reference to the diaspora. It just from something you said there, I was reminded that in Ireland, we took an opportunity about 25 years ago to put in an explicit reference to the diaspora. I think we didn't quite use that word, but we brought out explicitly that they are part of the Irish nation. And I think that would be an interesting initiative or it will be something which is worth considering if countries haven't already done it. We did it deliberately to make that point. And so people had reflections on that, it might be of interest. Okay, are there any more requests for the floor? Roberto, is that you from a previous, your hand is up at the moment. No, that's a new one. Thank you, David. I just wanted to actually comment briefly on what was mentioned by Ida from Peru on, because I think it is one of the comments that we had in the background paper, specifically how to reach and incentivize members of diaspora to participate in data collection and analysis processes. And one of the things that we have looked into in several different circumstances is basically frameworks for incentives. So for example, many countries provide diaspora ID cards that, for example, facilitate entry or exit into the country or expedite administrative procedures, such as getting your birth certificates, marriage certificates, things that often are challenging and trying for members of diaspora. So they're little things with very small financial impact for the government, but can actually help facilitate people's lives and provide them a reason to register with the government as a member of diaspora. So that's just one of the many ways that this challenge can be addressed that we've seen around the world and we've seen works in many different situations. I also see there's a comment from Zara Oman, which is in French. And unfortunately, my French is not up to translating. Perhaps we can pass through the word. I see it. Someone calls up. Zara would like to know what should the government do to give coftens to his diaspora so as to get it to contribute actively in the development of the country of ours. And yeah, so how do you build, I suppose how do you, in a way it's what you were just saying about how do you incentivize how do you, how do you motivate the diaspora to be active in its contribution? Martin, you asked for the floor. Yeah, just quickly, David, because I think you raised a great point about how do we institutionalize this in government? And I think a lot of what we're talking about so far, just the nature of the group is obviously very technical but you mentioned the constitution. I think the level or the importance of high-level political leadership on this is incredibly important. I think diaspora engagement has to be signposted from the highest offices as being a key developmental policy of choice, both domestically in terms of domestic policy but also foreign policy. And I think that's something that quite often gets a little bit kind of hidden in this process. So I just went to the flag that because I think coming to the technical level then at the institutional building, having been involved in the development of different policies, the first battle you have is that diaspora engagement can come across about 15 different ministries. And trying to get that to peacefully coexist is the labor of love. I had a full head of hair when I began this work. So I think it's important that we kind of work through that. I think a question that I think fascinates me particularly from the summit is that we're seeing more and more governments begin to talk with each other either through bilateral processes or regional processes on this topic. I'm just wondering, because we do have these different options in terms of institutional setup, programs and different types of partnerships. How important do colleagues feel that increasing that level of government to government discussion as well, between governments that are interested in this topic, kind of moving forward? Thanks very much, Martin, indeed. And I see a comment here from Christine about the commission of Filipinas overseas which is a government agency in the Philippines. It sounds very useful. I wonder, Christine, can I bring you in on that? Could you just tell us what kind of a budget it has, what sort of stuff are its exact functions? Yes, thank you, David. Yes, well, I cannot really say exactly the budget, but as I shared in the chat group, the website, people can take a look at it. And you could see there that there are many programs on the Filipino diaspora from the time from the time of pre-departure on site and even for return and reintegration for Filipino migrants. So basically, from, like for example, pre-departure, we have a pre-departure orientation seminar for them before they leave the country. And one day return, there are several programs depending on the profession that they have because for example, we have the Balik scientists which is the return of the scientists into the Philippines. And we also have the return of teachers, many others, even donation, they also coordinate donation of the Filipino diaspora abroad, donation to the country. So because many of the delegates here, participants have talked about how can they engage with their diaspora. And I thought I would share that link. So you could probably see all the programs that the government created for our diaspora. And maybe it would even give you ideas for your country. I think it's an extremely interesting question. And even the idea of having pre-departure seminars, that's for me quite novel. I mean, and it's a great idea. And it reflects acceptance that this is a perfectly normal thing to do. And it would probably build connections with the diaspora from the beginning. I mean, we tend to think of the diaspora as communities who somehow grow almost independently of the state. But this way, the Filipino government would be keeping in touch with them from the very beginning before they've even got onto the plane. That is very interesting, yeah. Okay, we're sort of coming gradually towards the end of the discussion, I think. But I'll just check whether there's anybody else who, Charles, please. That's my last point before I go on away. I just want to point out Zara who wrote in French, if I correctly understood, how do you have confidence sort of in the diaspora? How can the diaspora have confidence to be motivated? I think one thing we need to have, we need to have local champions. People who the system believes in, who the diaspora believes in, who's been known to champion the causes of humanitarian work, giving free, and trying to be as clear-cut. I don't want to use the word, as clear-cut in dealing with people. And in Sierra Leone, I'm not saying my name, but the founder championed some of us for 25 years, I've been doing humanitarian work. I had leadership roles in humanitarian work prior to the Medical Dental Association, College of Medicine, my student union days as president and lots of humanitarian work. So when you call on people, people like that who are known from pillars of humanitarian work, when you make them champions, people listen to them. And it was a lot of programs to go smoothly. So that when there is a disaster, I call on my colleagues to donate. We come in, they also donate and we finish the program, we give them a clean account back. So, and when we call upon them to come and volunteer, they don't do it wholeheartedly. So it's my little pieces of advice would be to look for that particular champion. They exist everywhere. And also everywhere I bring together knowledge, sharing in a conference at the United Nations. Unfortunately, the COVID did not allow us. So we bring in so many of these humanitarian, then slowly you find your own partner with whom you can rhyme and move along with. It's matter of trial and error. But by and large, you should be driven by that one vision that you're supposed to work. I'm going to contribute to the healthcare delivery system of my continent or country of origin and look for your key. I don't call this whole model. People you think you can align it. It's not easy to find what there are people like that. I thank you. I hope that's for Zara. Thank you. Thank you, Jaws. Yeah, very much me. Would anyone else like to take the floor? If not, I can probably wrap up the discussion at this stage, unless there's anybody who has a particular point they want to make. Okay, well, look, thank you to everybody for a very, very rich and fascinating discussion. I must say we covered a lot of ground. Difficult to sum it up. In no particular order, I would pick out the point made about the benefits which flow both to the country of origin and to the country of residence from active involvement of the diaspora. This is, as a word, a two-way process and that it must be more fully recognized. Secondly, the direct contribution is made to sustainable development. I mean, this is a particular hobby horse of mine having co-chaired the SDG negotiations and the New York Declaration on Migration Refugees, but I'm very, very interested in the interconnections between migration and sustainable development. So I think it's an angle that we all need to highlight, including at the forthcoming IMRF. I think we didn't actually look that much at the humanitarian angle today, but there's no doubt that in the current Ukraine crisis, Ukrainian diaspora organizations are playing a very important role worldwide from what I've been able to gather. So there's almost kind of a natural expectation that the diaspora will intervene to help its fellow citizens in any situation of a crisis. And the current one is a particularly good example. The need to get more data about the skills and deployment history and potential in many different sectors. I think that there's a challenge there to increase the amount of and the quality of data that we have available because that will help governments to draw on the diaspora more actively or to reach out to the diaspora to make up specific labor markets, shortages, and so on, back in the country of origin. There is the issue of what institutions we need in order to improve coordination. I mean, Martin referred to the difficulty of promoting diaspora engagement when many different ministries in a country like Ireland are involved in one way or another. So I'm not quite clear myself on what the best solution is. If you have, I mean, there's a clarity in having one individual ministry for the diaspora. But on the other hand, I fear that that would end up leaving it a little bit isolated as almost something which is not integrated and so I think Mark New yourself mentioned that one doesn't include the other that you can perhaps have both. And there's the role then of partnerships with civil society, the business sector, the universities. We need to find ways of bringing them into a collective effort in support of diaspora engagement and the incentives. I think that was a strong theme. What kind of incentives can we devise to make it more attractive for members of diasporas to voluntarily contribute to the, as a word, the country of origin, the country of residence? We need to help it to be proactive on that front. Sometimes they might fail to get connected or fail to see connection between themselves and the country of origin. I was particularly struck by the Filipino examples, both the governmental arrangements that Christine mentioned and also the commission idea and the seminars for Filipinos actually emigrating. There were many, many other ideas. Mentorship, I thought was an area with great potential. All of these being incentives that we can develop. What else? The whole question of, I mean, Kevin brought this up. How far should governments go to recognize that much of their intellectual, their intelligentsia as Kevin put it, are abroad? I mean, that is, if that's the case, then governments need to be more urgent and more interventionist in preventing a brain drain and sort of making it more worthwhile to stay at home. And there's a lot to be considered there. The question of the value placed on the diaspora, I floated myself the notion of national constitutions making explicit reference to the diaspora to demonstrate that they are absolutely part of the nation. I know that's just a symbolic gesture, but it's something which is important if you're trying to demonstrate a kind of a set of common interests between the diaspora and the home country. And then finally, maybe the discussion we had about the segmentation of diasporas, the fact that there are many diverse kinds of migrants in socioeconomic terms, in sort of age terms, those who are very recently gone, those who have been away for generations, those who never lived in the country of origin, et cetera. It's a very diverse environment and it's therefore all the more challenging to find a single approach which will work with the entire range of diasporas. So I leave it at that, I thought it was a great discussion and thank you to everybody for participating. I'd now like to hand over for final words to Christine on behalf of the government host country. Thanks, Christine. Yes, thank you. Well, it was indeed a very interesting and active discussion and I thank all the participants for contributing to all these lively discussions that we had. I noted two themes during this discussion which is data, we talked a lot about data collection and as well as getting to know the diaspora. And these two themes actually are connected to each other because you need to collect data in order to get to know the diaspora. And even in the Philippines actually, we face challenges in collecting data because we do lack a unified database for migration and we also have a limited capacity to monitor the welfare of our overseas migrant workers. However, we do recognize that it is needed because it could help in designing better policies to respond to our national local and diaspora needs. And in this regard, we need to create spaces for state diaspora interaction and which really reinforces the getting to know the diaspora and this can be done in many activities. It can be like listening exercises or even trainings that you could provide direct assistance to your diaspora communities. And even supporting diaspora organizations and networks, new technologies as well including social media can also facilitate more of this interaction. Therefore, I believe that there is a need for government to rethink its role and how to engage with diaspora because most of the time, there really is a preference towards state-centric approaches and really need to listen to our diaspora in order to be able to engage with them more because otherwise it will just create obstacles. And following this, the integration of diaspora engagement into institutions and policy frameworks would be really helpful. And I have provided you with examples of the Philippines best practices. And I mentioned here earlier and even in the chat group of the creation of a new office, a department for migrant workers and even an existing commission and Filipinos overseas which really tries to engage our diaspora. So this really helped in providing a coherent development plan for the country and which will obviously dovetail with the national development plan and immigration policy of your country. And of course, finally regarding data, this can definitely help in enhancing cooperation and migration through digital transformation. So earlier data collection, we are now trying to digitalize all our data collection. And I think that countries should be able to use this platform, digital platform to take advantage of the digital transformation for the information and processes of engaging with our diaspora. So that's it for me, David. And I thank you very much. Thank you indeed. Thank you for that contribution and the early ones. So with that, ladies and gentlemen, thank you. I bring the session to a conclusion. I hope you found it interesting. I certainly did. And there will be an outcome document from the summit as you're aware and there'll also be a report on the proceedings. So I wish you every success in your various activities in support of diasporas and thank you for joining us this afternoon. Okay, bye-bye.