 I feel like for a long time I got overlooked. And people were not checking for me, like at all. It wasn't until, I don't know, I don't know if it's cause like my hair is big now, that they're like who's homegirl with the big hair, but like people were not checking for me. I've always been like a smiley bubbly friendly person, but the guys that, the women that guys were, were chasing after were the ones who were throwing ass everywhere, throwing ass and titties everywhere. Like acting super grown, super sexy. I didn't even get comfortable with the idea of being sexy until like a couple of years ago. Listen, it's the message right here. Black boy tell me how you really feel. Cause I just want to build with you. Black girl tell me how you really feel. I want to keep it real with you. I want to live better, eat better. I want to love better, sleep better. Yeah, I want to feel so aligned. As a woman you have to vet men. Yes. As a woman you have insight on women. So going back to my first question. If you were a dude, how would you vet women? Ooh, huh. If I was a dude, how would I vet women? I feel like. And I want you to be granular. I don't just, you know, if she's a good person, I want you to get into the weeds. Get into the weeds on this one. This is a, this is an interesting question. Cause I mean, I've never vetted a woman before. I know as a woman how I vet men, based off what I'm looking for. Um, okay, can we do this? Can you share with me in your opinion what men are looking for in women and then I can share how I feel like you would find those things? The main thing is peace. Okay. Attractiveness. A warm and friendly disposition. And how do I put this? A good person, somebody who's not going to screw you over, like, you know, during a divorce or somebody who's not vindictive, somebody who's not, you know, selfish, you know, so. But peace, the peace piece is the peace piece is the most important part. So I would pay attention to how much peace she has in her own life. And how peace she is with herself. Pay attention to how she talks about herself. Does she speak highly of herself or is she always down on herself? Like how much does she love herself? What's herself worth like? If she says that she's going to do something, does she do it? What's her relationship like with her family? That's not to say that the relationship with everyone has to be perfect, but does she have a relationship with people in her family and what does that look like? If there is a relationship in her family that is less than perfect, how does she feel about it? And has she come to terms with it? Has she healed through it? Has she like, you know, made effort? Like how did that go? What did that look like? Because I mean, that's important. I don't think that every family member has to be in her life and every family member she has to be on good terms with, but understanding her relationship to that, I think is very important. Little things, does she show appreciation and is she encouraging? Like with the small stuff? For my understanding, I mean, I'll say just with the small stuff, is she encouraging? Is she loving? Does she smile? How is she with friends? How is she around other people? Again, go into environments when other people are around. Is she friendly or is she standoffish? A lot of these things I just feel like you can observe in someone. Does she say thank you when you do something for her? Again, questions, what does she value? What's important to her? Some of those different things are gonna be important to different people in terms of that. But for the peace thing, I really just feel like how at peace she is in her own life, how she conducts herself in her own life. What are her self-care practices in her own life? I just feel like observing her and how she moves throughout life, how she experiences life. Her relationship to life, to herself and to those around her, I feel like is essentially what you look at. Is everything to her a drag? Is there always something to complain about? Because if that's the case, then you're probably not gonna have much peace because she's gonna be complaining about something. Because her mindset is her goggles focus on what's wrong and not what's going great in her life. So like how does she talk about challenges? Does she talk about challenges as opportunities for growth? Or does she talk about challenges in a way that she's defeated and deflated? Yeah, when someone does something, or even when you as a guy, when you do something that she doesn't like, how does she respond to it? Does she come to you? And does she say outright like, hey, you did this and it hurt my feelings and come to you and have a conversation about it? Or does she give you the silent treatment for a week? Like just simple, I don't think, I really don't think it's that complicated, but maybe it's because I'm a woman. But I feel like if you just focus on the things that you're saying you want, it's easy to see if a woman's friendly. It's easy to feel if a woman brings you peace or not. I think it's just about not rushing it and taking your time to allow yourself to see that. So here's what's tough. Let me have it. I agree with everything you said. Part of my ministry is encouraging black men to commit themselves to the idea of finding a black woman to join in partnership with as opposed to some of the alternatives. If I had a panel of black men here, I suspect they would say, these things that you just mentioned, these negatives tend to be consistent amongst black women. And some of the positives, small examples smiling, tend to not be present amongst our women. I encourage men to take it a step further and understand that there's generations of trauma that inform her behavior, where she's from, informs her behavior, her father not being in her life, informs her behavior, all the traumas he's experienced throughout her life informs her behavior. So there's this level of grace that we must have with black women. How do we navigate the fact that stuff like simply smiling tends to be a more nuanced ask than it should be, I guess. And if we were just betting based on those things, then a lot of black men already are doing it, like we'll take their business elsewhere, because those things tend to be easier to find. So what are your thoughts on that? I don't know, though, I don't know. The reason I say that is because, and maybe I'm around a lot of women who are like me, I do know that there's a lot of women who maybe don't smile, who aren't super friendly, who whatever, there are a lot of black women who are. And a lot of black women who do. And from my perspective, I feel like sometimes men aren't checking for those women. I feel like they want the women who don't want them back. I feel like the friendly women get put in the friend zone. So is it that they aren't there or that they aren't being paid attention to or they aren't packaged the way that you want them to be packaged? Because also the woman who is smiling and friendly probably is not going around like wearing a face full of makeup all the time or with her hair super done up all kinds of ways or with freaking Fashion Nova tight, fit in clothes on all the time. She's probably in something comfortable because that's what she'd prefer to be in. She's probably in something comfortable, some little flip flops or something, some sandals that are flat. You know, she's not necessarily gonna be the loudest. She's not necessarily gonna be in your face. She's probably gonna be like quieter. Like I feel like for a long time I got overlooked and people were not checking for me, like at all. It wasn't until, I don't know, I don't know if it's cause like my hair is big now, that they're like who's homegirl with the big hair but like people were not checking for me. I've always been like a smiley bubbly friendly person but the guys that, the women that guys were chasing after were the ones who were throwing ass everywhere, throwing ass and titties everywhere. Like acting super grown, super sexy. I didn't even get comfortable with the idea of being sexy until like a couple of years ago. Like you could not get me to say that I was sexy, no way. I was ever gonna say that by myself. My mom literally sat me down and she said, Dasha, you're a grown woman. It's okay for you to be sexy. And I was like, I feel comfortable being cute. I feel comfortable saying I'm cute. I don't feel comfortable claiming sexy. That shit, that doesn't feel like that's who I am. You know, so I feel like some of it is just about keeping your eyes open for, and again, this is for women as well, but also for men, since that's what we're talking about right now, keeping your eyes open to what it is that you say that you want. And paying attention to the types of women who are the kinds of women that you say that you want. I agree with you. I think what's tough though is, let me backtrack, part of the reason why I tell men to focus on themselves and focus on becoming the type of men that they wanna be first before going out there and trying to find the type of woman. Because she's gotta come help you with whatever you're building. So you have to be building something. With that being said, I'm not just talking about black women that we come across in a romantic context. I'm talking about just in general. I'm talking about at the grocery store, the cashier, the hotel attendant, whatever. Nine times out of 10, it's not a pleasant dialogue. A lot of times, and this is even my own experience, there's a veneer of suspicion initially that I met with. And I wanna say it's not until I open my mouth that they can tell that I'm one of the good ones. But sometimes even after that, there's still that suspicion. Like, what, you know, something ain't right. Like, I remember a female friend of mine was telling me about she was at a bar with some friends of hers. And a black man, probably a more nerdy guy was looking at her. And she said, hey, how are you? She said, he lost his freaking mind. She said that he lit up like a Christmas tree. Like, are you talking to me? He said, I mean, she said that he ran to his friends and was like, I just met a super, he's one of those guys, right? He's met a super cool black chick and like, she said hi to him. And when she was telling me the story, I was like, damn, that's fucking sad. It is sad. He, that was foreign to him that another black person who was a female was nice to him. And she wasn't interested in him. She wasn't, you know, but she taught him how to salsa dance. She, he followed her around that club like a dog. Cause he was the, and I say all that to say, that is more common than I think even women realize. So like, why is it, do you think that you, people like you and how you're describing the type of women men should be looking for are an anomaly in our community? Why is that? Or do you think they're not and we're missing something? It's hard for me to say, cause I don't want to negate your experience because I know my experience is different than yours. And I know that there are black women who have a demeanor that's not friendly. I don't know if it's because I'm, for example, I'm a woman. So I don't know if just because I am a black woman that I experienced black women as being more friendly because they trust me. Like they don't have a, you know, they trust me cause we're the same, you know, I am you, you are me. So I, I can't, it's hard for me to speak to that because I don't really understand and I can't really bat in that experience. I can make some guesses at why that might be the case, but I don't know that I'd even know if like my friends do stuff like that when I'm not around. If I had to say, though, I feel like what's, what is promoted as being sexy, as being attractive, as being desirable is more mysterious, is more, is less transparent. And so maybe they think that's what's gonna get them what they want and they're expecting. It's like the bad bitch energy. Yeah. And so they're expecting that that's what's going to get someone to come and talk to them. Which to me is not logical, but I feel like that could be what it is. So the sense of like, if he's not man enough to walk through this veil of suspicion, I don't know. Yeah, I've heard that actually. I have heard that. Like if he, if he's not like confident enough to come over and talk to me, then, oh well. And I can say that I've definitely have had a little bit of that as well. For sure. But why? She's intimidating. It doesn't mean matter if it's a friendly person. And I know because, you know, I've shot a shot or two. And it's intimidating. It's scary. Not gonna lie. So I think I have a different, I understand a little bit. So I'm like the least I can do is smile in your direction and say, how are you doing? Damn. Yeah, cause when I have conversations with dudes, it's like, it's already scary to shoot your shot at a woman. Shooting your shot at a black woman is like, cause you might be, it's one thing to shoot and miss, but you might have your shit swatted. Like you might be, you might have it swatted and then you get dumped on. Like you stand the chance of being like utterly embarrassed and annihilated. Like, look at you. How dare you think you can, and this is the experience of a lot of men. I'm sorry. That sucks. So, for the men who still want black women, cause I don't necessarily deal with the ones who are done. And I don't, I don't think convincing people is a worthwhile pursuit, especially adults. For the ones who still want black women, what, what, what's the best pep talk? That rallying cry you can give them to like get back out there and you know. I would just, okay, this is going to sound really boo boo, but I would just say focus on what it is that you desire to attract. Focus on, focus on what you desire and kind of putting yourself at the vibration to attract that and just keep your eyes open for what it is that you're looking for. Like don't give any energy to, to the things that you don't want because where your attention goes, energy flows. So you want to put your energy towards what it is that you desire, your thoughts towards what you desire. For a while, I was like, I don't even know if I'm going to like be able to, even as a black woman, if I focus on all the things that's wrong with black men and oh, statistics that are against me this and statistics, I literally will never find anybody if I do that and I've had a lot better look by focusing on the black men who are beautiful fathers and the black men who are beautiful partners. Like I literally put those images and that kind of stuff in my vision, in my awareness because I want to have the belief that that exists and that it exists for me. And what I would say to them is that you don't need all black women to smile at you if you want a black woman. You don't need all black women to be friendly and you don't need all black women to bring you peace. If you're a monogamous person, you need one black woman, just one who is that for you? You're just trying to find your one. You don't need everybody to be that for you because everyone's not gonna be that for you. So just focus on your one. Surely you can find one person. I mean, unless again, you want multiple partners then you gotta find your two or your three or your five or whatever. But if you're someone who's looking for your one life partner, something that helps me is to remember that I'm just looking for one person. I don't need everybody to be the man that I'm looking for because I'm only looking for one. So, you know, there's a lot of talk these days about like black women divesting. That means going to best man for the job, white man, Asian man, whatever. And then black men, they have a SYSBM, Save Yourself Black Man. So they're going to Thailand, South America, Africa, Europe to find a better quality woman because American women are fundamentally broken. American black women are fundamentally broken. Do you think black love, black man, black woman? Do you think it's still a worthwhile pursuit? Or do you think what those groups, what those groups, what those factions are doing is cool, is, you know, it's all right. Be honest. It's worthwhile for me. I think each person has to make that choice for themselves. And I've had times where I really wanted to be one of those people that divested. I was like, maybe it would be easier, if I maybe it would be fine. I've had these conversations with my mom all the time. I'm just like, mom, I just wish that I was attracted to white men. Cause I feel like, you know, I have more options, not even just that it would be easier, but you know, I would have more options if I was attracted to, you know, more than really just black men. But since I wanted black men, my options are they're fewer, naturally, numbers. I feel like it's worth it for me. I can't say if it's worth it for everybody. I think you got to want it. And if you want it, then it's worth it for you. If you don't, then do what you do. I am going to support you either way. That's just, I just want you to be happy, you know? Just be happy. And if you feel like what's going to make you happy is dating someone of a different race, then that's cool. I don't look at, you know, other couples that are mixed couples and you're like, I'm just like, oh wow, that's beautiful. It's a different kind of beautiful. I think that black love with black men and a black woman is exceptionally beautiful, but. Why? One, because we have a lot to work through to get there. I feel like if you have that, the appreciation for what you have, in my opinion, is much deeper, because I feel like we have to do more work to get to the point of having a healthy experience in the context, within the context of black love. And I just feel like it's a really deep, rich love when it's done well. And I feel like as we, as black people, come together and figure out what it looks like to have healthy families, then we can raise black children who grew up in a healthy environment and who are just like badasses in the best way. And I feel like that's the start of us shifting a lot for ourselves and our community is with the black family. I feel like the black flea family is important and it's the foundation of everything. Yeah, so it's important for building legacy, black legacy specifically. What do you wish, if you had Athena's glove, right? And you could snap your finger. What do you wish was different about black men? I don't know that I have an answer to that. Oh, what I could say, okay, okay. If I'm like, I'm trying to make sure I think of an answer because that's a harder one. I would say I wish, and again, I don't think it's just a black men issue, but I would say I wish more black men went to therapy and knew it was okay to go to therapy if I had to say anything. Because I feel like y'all need it, we need it too. What thing, what stone, why is it, or what is it specifically you think black men specifically need to work through from a psychological standpoint? The first thing that immediately came to my mind was feeling good enough. Because sometimes I feel like there's nothing that I can say or do to make black men feel good enough. Why do you think we don't? I think that y'all fully understand your worth because of things that you've experienced in your past and because of the picture that's painted of y'all. I think it's hard to believe that you're enough when there's been so many things aimed at making you believe that you're not. What are those things? Media, media don't like y'all at all, in my opinion. I know that there are men who experience some traumatic things with their parents, with women. I think there's a lot of things and it's been different things for every person. But I think it comes from all sides. It comes from all sides. So one of the things that I've observed that happens a lot and it happens less to me than I think it happens to most black men and the only reason is I have conversations a lot. I've gotten pretty good at it. But a lot of black men feel gaslit and I know a lot of times we talk about it in the context of black women feeling like their experiences are minimized and trivialized and you're crazy, that didn't really happen like that. Why do you think so many black men feel and to your point feel not just unseen or misunderstood but also like minimized when they do express themselves or air their grievances or talk about some of the things that they don't like whether with women or society at large. Why do you think that is? Why do black men feel unseen or minimized when they're expressing themselves? It's a question. Like I'll give you an example. Something that I hear a lot is the response from women tends to be where do y'all find these women? Well none of my friends are like that or you need to pick better. If those were our responses when women air their grievances we would be lambasted as insensitive and... I would say y'all are correct because that's what I tell women. That's exactly what I tell women. Straight like that. It's your fault boo. Be like, I didn't know he was like, yes you did. Okay, well maybe, yeah. So, I mean I would say that y'all are correct when you say that. I mean in general though again if we're saying why do black men feel like unseen or not listened to when y'all are expressing yourselves, that's the question. I have to keep going back because I will forget. I feel like I would say because sometimes y'all aren't seen or heard. And I think that's because it's hard to do. And not even just for black women when it comes to black men but women in general when it comes to men. Something that we don't talk about and something that I've kind of learned about is that as much as women ask for vulnerability from men it's scary. It can be scary when we actually get it because they are fake. It's the truth. I think that something that Brene Brown was talking about, I love her, I'm kind of obsessed with her, is she talks about vulnerability, shame, guilt and how that can be a barrier. How it's like shame and guilt can be a barrier to vulnerability. And I think she studied mostly women but a man came up to her and said, well that's all fine and good. What does that look like for men? What does your research look like in the context of men? She was like, oh I don't really know. I just study mostly women. And he was like, well that's real convenient. And he basically told her that his wife and girls would rather see him died on his white horse than to express any type of vulnerability or like weakness. And I was like, shit, that's heavy. Like that's really heavy. And I think it's real too. And I think it's real too. And I think it takes a very strong woman to really be able to create space for a man to be vulnerable.