 everybody would rather be here than outside. First of all, we'll have the select board members introduce ourselves. And I wanted to introduce Jonathan Williams. He's our select board administrator. Hi, everybody. So, Rob Richard. Sharon Nguyen-Fannin. I'm Rose Palachuk. Denise Wheeler. John Brubin. I'm Judy Fitzrober. Jane Olson. Chair of Planning. Yes. Okay, so let's start it out. I want to thank you all for coming tonight. I'm sure everyone wants this meeting to go well. I'll leave here with positive energy and a plan to move forward. Originally, this was not going to be a special select board meeting, but the questions were directed to the select board, and we have a formal board. If you would like to speak tonight, please make sure that you sign up so we can make sure that everyone is heard. Jonathan and Rob will be assisting in making sure that everyone is heard, and we have this handy-dandy time clock here. So, it's going to be about two to three minutes, by the end of the list of signs of the crowd. I wanted to set some ground rules, as we do any other time we have in the days, because we want us to be productive and respectful. We need to work together, not against each other. Cal is a community that's known for working together, because at the end of the evening, we are still all neighbors, and we all care about this town. We would ask that you be recognized by the board before you speak. State your name, as not everyone knows everybody, and not interrupt others while they're speaking, and to appreciate and listen to what others have to say, even if you don't agree with them. Last Friday, the board received a list of questions from a group of residents who met last Monday, which we expect this meeting to be what you guys already did for us. So, we're very appreciative of the work and the thoughtful effort that you all put into it. You have the flip charts to help record and remember what is said here tonight. And you'll note that we've broken down the list of questions into three categories. Swimming Access, Memorial Hall, Regents Monument, and GAR Road. So, those are the main questions that we took from the work that you all did. And please understand that we may not be able to answer all of your questions here tonight. We plan to continue to review all the questions and consultation with our town attorney, and look at perhaps holding another meeting sometime in the fall. Perhaps by then, others may be able to help come up and plan to help the Women's Relief Corps find a solution. Many of the questions can only be answered by the Women's Relief Corps. All questions should still be directly to the board, even if they are questions that you would like answers to from the Women's Relief Corps. And we have here tonight some of the parts from the Corps and we really, really appreciate your coming. And I would like to invite someone from the Corps to speak and just give us a brief history of the organization and what it is and that maybe not everybody knows. And then we hope you'll stay and help us answer some questions and work together to find the positive outcomes of this. I'm asked out to you and the issue that was actually before the town and us was the shoreline. You guys passed regulations in the Planning Commission and Registration. Please stand up so we can hear from you. Sorry. Usually some of you need to work on the Fourth of July is that someone cut out the beach more. So it's now 70 feet wide of the beach area. It's not really, quote, a beach. It's what you guys call a beach. And then we act to the zoning administration because that was a violation of cutting within the physical spot. Then we had a meeting out there and on the results on the first page, those are the results of what happened. We wrote a letter to the selector. We wrote a letter that went to the state. Excuse me. The Conservation Commission, who helps with this stuff on beach stuff, Jane Olson, who's the Planning Commission, the kind of the Planning Commission, they write the laws that you guys voted on and John Clarke, who's the zoning head of state, who actually writes official notices of violation. He decided that it wasn't enough for a violation. The Planning Commission and here, this is the results. So the end of it was there was no violation. There was no action. And then it was concluded by the town. I'm sorry. You know that? Yes. I think what I was looking for for history was the history of the Memorial Hall and the organization. If you could enlighten folks as to what was the history of the Hall itself. When we're not going out, I'm sorry. The history of the Hall itself is in the D's, which I understand the whiskers are reviewing and are going to give you a report of who owns what on a GAR road is going to include our Hall. And they will be giving you and defined the four D's that we've got the property from. The listers are not in the position to determine ownership. That's true. So just to be clear on that, and anybody can go to the town office and review any of the documents. So you want me to give you the page and tell them. Book and page? I think. No. I think Jan has a list of all his documents. So anybody can welcome to go in and look at them. Right. But I'm sure we'll get them too. The way we started off was that it started off with Mr. O'Connor. The letter, a random letter, was Jan's spending ends. She was in the poor to start with. It was her great-grandfather. He purchased a piece of land from Warren Chase. The land, when it was purchased, said to build a 30 by 60 building used at the Grand Army or Memorial Hall and for other public uses as in common for such buildings to be used. Keeping good repair and build a five-strand fire fire fire fence southerly and westerly on the road in the wind. That was done. Orlando then gave it to Memorial Hall Association with no conditions whatsoever. Then we have a request they did for the State of Vermont for an act to exempt the hall. And that exemption was for the Memorial Hall Association only. And said, shall be exempt from taxation so long as the used profits and increased zero shall be devoted to the general use and best interests of the Grand Army or the Republic. Says nothing about the land or the hall itself. Then we have Reverend Mr. Chase gave us another piece of land. He gave that to the Stoker host, number 22. Now I know the Grand Army and the Republic. The description was the hill area. When you stay at the hall and if you're have your back to the gate you look across and there's a hill and it's got trees on it. In fact, we put an application in to put a parking lot here a few years ago and got denied. That goes back to the cottage plots. And so we got that piece along with the other piece of the road. So now there's two pieces of the road. The hall, the point, etc. The hall was fell and then the Grand Army of the Republic who was Mark Goodall and Mr. Haskell as the D-agents gave everything to the Women's Reef Board and the Sons of Union beckons. These two organizations are part of the Grand Army of the Republic. It's a five the Grand Army of the Republic consists of five different organizations under it. And in that day it said shall be used only for all patriotic, religious, moral and attractive purposes and for no other purposes whatsoever. So all these years when everybody said that the hall was given to the Women's Reef Board or to the Sons as a public building for public uses and public this and public that it does not say so when we reach all legal needs. And so that's where we are. Everything transferred down to us because the last remaining son died and he, we had it was either to the son or to the survivor which was the Women's Reef Board. Thank you for sharing your history. So let's start out with some of the questions here. We'll all put together a start with GAR Road. Is it a town highway? This has been a question that's been asked over and over again. So I'm going to try to give an answer. Historically the town has considered GAR Road to be a fourth class town highway and it has been maintained as such by the town. The town believes that the Women's Reef Board owns the land underlying the town highway easement into the right way. Nothing has recently come to the town's attention that would change our perspective on that. The town believes the town's right of way for GAR Road includes the travel portion of the road plus some land outside of the road to perform maintenance. Land under town highways usually belongs to the adjoining landowners and this is any town road whether it's fourth class or third class. Land under a town highway usually belongs to the adjoining landowners but town has an easement which is a right of way for the public to use the road for travel as the town could cloud and perform other maintenance. So that is our answer on GAR Road. The town also believes that the parking area is owned by the Women's Reef Board. So I'd like to give the Women's Reef Board an opportunity to answer questions about the road. Well, can we start the list? Yeah, I think we'll start the list. We're going to go around with two pads of paper. We'll just circulate. Would you like to speak to any of this? Please put them on the list and then we're going to do a time. If you could just raise your hands so I can tell you it's going to be one of you and... We're going to go through what everybody is thinking and then there's additional questions we can then move on to that site where we are. Okay. Can you all have comments on the road? You just sit with it and try to make the students stand up. Can you hear that? Can you hear that? Can you hear that? Can you hear that? Can you hear that? Can you hear that? Can you hear that? Can you stand up? Can you stand up? If you have any questions or any comments about that and what you just said about the road. Yes, I will. Describe 24 feet wide from out through around the corner to the dam. From the dam through Barbara Butler's property is 15 feet wide. There are surveys for everybody that owns the land on the pond over there on that section as if the GAR owns the road. You're on your way. You're going to have to prove where the town's supposedly took it over and did the survey and everything else that's legal to take over each project road that belongs to someone else. As for the triangle piece that has been stolen from us twice. The first time it was stolen from us was in 1964 when a man who owned or again English now owns the upper piece sold the piece of land to the water's edge to the state of Vermont for fishing access. The older members of the Women's Relief Board stopped them from doing the destruction and said, what the hell are you doing? We own this. And our road used to go right where the beach is. The actual beach ramp in our neighborhood fishing access. So that was a big deal. We ended up with a state surveying the property. The state had to give the state the state had to give us back the land and we had to give it back to them and clear that up. And that's why we made the road where it is now instead of where that fishing access was So that's how we got our piece of road back and triangle piece and then Jane English owns above that. But while we were looking just recently at your Lister's map we found you had Jane English owning everything all the way down to the road and to the fishing access. So that was the first steal from, you know, Catholic President. Second one was a bunch of gentlemen came in and bought the front piece of Jane English property which sits on a hill where you'd see a trailer and a map and they were out of state and they tried to clean the triangle and the road. So we got to watch the court. We had a lengthy court hearings and we came back out with owning the triangle and the road. And so as far as workers are we own the road. In 1990 we had a problem with swimmers parking in the road and we were renting the hall. And with the rental of the hall the private department could not get to the hall if there was a fire the ambulance could not get to the hall if there was a problem. So we asked the select man at that time if they would pose here is a ordinance not parking on that road. And we got the ordinance from Arthur Armstrong Lester Tobi and Ralph Howe. And at the same time we put those signs up and I think it says on the bottom of its first selection. And then on the next sign now it says all property on this road is privately owned. And everybody's blocked by those signs for twenty-some years or more and not money agreed to. So that was how that's the road. And if you say that you own the road then you've got to prove the other part that we're ready to go and put our stuff together about the court to prove ours. I think you ought to hear the word. Additional land beyond the actual land you have the road know you don't because it's a stated right of way just like the East Palace the back street is a stated right of way you can't have free rods because it was standard free rods to start and that was discussed back here when they were used in skating. Yeah, I remember that in East Palace. Right. So that's the road. The next piece that we focused on was the swimming access. So I would like to give the relief for the opportunity to first address and answer the questions that were put for by the group that met the other night. You have a close little chance to check and be happy to talk. The cleaning access is a concern. We didn't do anything officially with that. That was just something that happened over the years where people came in to swim. They thought some of the people thought they who owned the cottage lots owned what it was going to be. If you look at the survey it's on fire at the town parks office. It says dot dot dot you own it. Tammy the cottage lot. And then the rest of it is where we're owned. The rest of it is going to be fishing access. As far as ever I'll stand up. My name's Kathy so I'm president of the Relief Corps. As far as ever being promoted as a swimming access no we've never done that. People have always swam there. They still walk across the private property and go out to the point and swim and stuff. Some of them that are out there in the last couple of years has been out of town there's not really townspeople. How they find out about it I understand it's listed on some website as one of the best places to go and people in very seem to know about it but we've never promoted it as a swimming access especially a public one because the liability would be in arms for us to do that and that's not you know not something that we money wise can really you know take care of her or anything so we've never promoted it as a public swimming whatsoever. The only public swimming that I know of is what it's over at her in this year. So what you're saying is nobody closed down public swimming you haven't posted it or you haven't posted it or anything like that. I go by there's no postage sign on our beach the postage sign is on the point where the hall is and that's because you swimmer's office you complain last year you leave the town clerk's office that we should post it because of the naked man I never saw the naked man in the office and the state police he hasn't returned but it's my information that he lived in an institution we assume that he had a mental problem but we don't know how many we don't have so that's why there's signs there so when somebody has done that postage property they could be arrested for trespassing is that correct here even anyone of you for us what about if you want to put your hands up so we're going to get there that's on the list of questions right up here so let's move on the town owns a portion or a public beach at Curtis Con how that came to be I don't know so there's probably somebody here that has a history of that and if it's a short history I don't think the town found someone but I think it belongs to the land front and I think the town has permission to use that man as long as there are swim lessons there it seems to be researched great thank you there's a question about modifying the shoreland and it's my understanding if any work on that were to be done that it would have to go through the state and the town shoreland permitting requirements and regulations so if anyone is done there they know that that's the process that has to be done and if there's working what we consider to be the town's right of way it needs to be a permit granted by the select for permission to work in the right of way um hey anything else on the memorial hall board members I mean I'm just the swimming area I think we are sorry to get some names right I can come in yep if anyone's not on the list raise your hand and we'll come and grab your name we've got you what please your question what okay so yes um the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the I have to have it be preserved. It's an important historic building in Calis. So I would hope that we would all, and I mean all, be supportive of preserving the Monk, the Memorial Hall, and work together to that end. But I guess I would like to hear from the women who we meet for about the hall being preserved. Can they still have a question that are posted out there that haven't been addressed yet? Which one? Who closed? No, we didn't close the beach. No, but it did. Is that as well? So who closed the day on it? And my question is, is it actually closed? No, we, Barbara, we went through that question. The beach is not closed. OK, thank you. I think we can't always hear. Yeah, that's OK. We'll try to speak up. And what about the memorial? We didn't address that question. We're not there yet. We're not there yet, please. We're trying to make sure that we maintain some order here so that we can get through everything. Point it out on this list as a system act. I think, does everybody have a list? You're scaling some item on the list. That's a confusion, please. I don't think we skipped anything on the list. You just skipped two, but then again, that's all I'm going to say. I think people are confused because you're looking around. Memorial Hall. So we asked the question, can the Memorial Hall be preserved? I think there's general consensus and agreement that everybody would like to see the hall preserved. The taxes have status. I'm not in a position to really get into that question tonight. I think that the town does not have any plans at this time on taking any action and logically speculate what might happen in the near future. So if I might provide a clarification, because I spoke with some people before the meeting, there's some confusion. With John Bravan again, select board. The tax exempt status, as applies to that hall, is a continuing status, unlike other buildings in town, which we grant periodically in re-up. And that's done at the local level. Their exemption from taxation is a state level exemption. It was done through the legislature. So when was it? In 1888. In 1888. So I don't have good memory of it. I was really young. But that's a continuing thing right now. If people think it's being misapplied or it shouldn't apply, that's an issue for the attorney general's office, not the town of Calis select board. OK? I'm not sure. Can I add? Yeah, can I add to that memory? The exemption is for the organization that runs the exemption. It's not for the hall or the property. So the exemption goes with that organization. So if that were to become a private or some other nonprofit organization that owned it, then they would be in position of being attached unless the town graciously said they would make up the education tax of their time. Right. Just so you know, it's not because I own the property. It's not. The organization, they would connect me to the grant. I mean, I think most folks in the town really know that we have exempted a few properties in the town from taxation over the years. Right? So I'm not. Why isn't the hall and the land open to the public? I think you can answer that. Naked man. Why are you here? She said naked man. But I think an access to the hall, I think it used to get rented out. OK, the hall has this building, except this building has more. The supports under the first floor, not the walls or anything of that nature, just the supports under the first floor were put in with pieces of wood with the bark still on. And the way they stuck it together, they assumed that it would last 50, 60, 70 years. I mean, they never expected it to live this long. And then when we were renting it out, the two people that were involved in renting it at that time, maybe in Collins, had pieces of rotten wood, which is on the floor. And it's only got one layer of boards. It's starting to pop up in the bathrooms, in the dining room, et cetera. So that's when I'm holding the engineer, Rick, Rick DeWall. And as Rick DeWall came over, I took a look at the hall. And he said, you cannot put any people into that building. The second floor would be fine. But you know, if you rent a building, somebody's going to use the first floor, the camp. And so he said, you've got to pull the rentals of the building. And you've got to do a steel, it should be steel support because you've got two stories. And you need to put steel beams in and then you need to take out those others. You need to dig out. You wouldn't have to dig the floor down because right now, if you've tried to replace the floor, you'd be laying on your back because it's a crawl space. So that has to come out. Then we have to replace the front wall, which we never replaced because that's where the portraits were until we took the portraits off. And so the whole thing he estimated out about 295,000 to fix it, just that. Then you're going to have the same things as this building. We have a new roof. We have a new three-quarter, new foundation. But we need new windows. We have to have new siding. It just continues on and on and on with an old building. But if someone comes up with the amount of money to fix it, yes, it can be fixed. That will be the problem. It will be just the basement, first floor support. When was this that he'd done, if I do well? Back before he left two years. Would I shut the hall down? Can I just remind people to direct your questions to the boards so that it doesn't feel better? Because I mean, we're standing tonight in a building that's declared but hasn't been studied. Hasn't been studied. Now, if we were over in Memorial Hall and we were all sitting in the dining room area, kitchen area, we probably would end up at the basement. One of the things when you do the basement underneath, then you've got to replace all the floor on the first floor on the top. Because those boards are now rotten, thanks to the ones on the bottom. The rotten's come straight up through. So the whole process is going to be very expensive, expensive because you've got walls downstairs, upstairs, it's the widest space. So the combination of doing it's going to take a while, but it's going to take much longer. Thank you for that explanation. Okay, now to the question that some have been waiting for. Why is there no access to the Veterans Memorial Monument? Catherine, would you like to answer that? There is access. We, in the hedges, there's a cutout that we purposely put in when the question came about, well, when we put the hedges in, how's people going to get to the Monument? The only thing is, you can park on the room, you have to park just out of the triangle in order to walk in to it. So how would, I think, have veterans to get to the Monument? Actually, I think they're at that a while ago that may not be, if they widened it. We widened it because of the candy cat parking spot near that opening. Yes. So people have a hard time hearing, so whoever's speaking, if you could stand up. So a while back, we added over on the side road where you go past the gate of the hall. We put a wider spot for candy cat parking and we widened the entrance. It probably needs to be widened again, but it's very easy to push a wheelchair in there or a walker that you use that you can sit on to get to the Monument. That's specifically why we left that opening there. Some after we did it, some of the wedding parties would use it where the bride would come out the back way, come in that way, so the groom didn't see them. So it's been used for that too, but that's why we put that entry point in was because a lot of people were saying, well, now the hinges are there, how are we gonna get in to see the Monument? And that was our way of making it available for people to go for the Monument. So if people were going to look at the Monument, they would be considered trespassing? No, not if they're going to look at the Monument. Okay. I'm sorry, wait a minute, wait a minute, please. Can you say your statement, please? My name is Matthew Mitchell. How do you distinguish the difference between somebody who's trespassing? Oh, I'm from East Calz and Marshfield. How do you differentiate the difference between somebody who's trespassing and somebody who's visiting the stone? Because you say you have those hedges with the arch cutting, but you have no trespassing signs, no spree heat from it. So it's very misleading. Okay, thank you. I have two items, pretty much, as we're addressed at the select board. So Rob and Jonathan, do you have lists of people that would like to speak about roughly how many people are there? We've got 14, 15 people. I'm going to answer this one. Yeah, let's have it. I'm going to answer this one. I'm going to answer this one. Do you need to answer this? If you want to, if you can answer that question. I think the difference between trespassing and looking at the Monument is people that are looking at the Monument are going to be at the Monument and then are going to be on the point swimming and are not going to be roaming all around the hall. I think that's the difference how you're going to distinguish whether you're trespassing or paying attention to the Monument. I mean, there's been people out there looking at the Monument. I mean, I've driven up Foster Hill and seen people reading the Monument stuff. So people that are really going out to look at the Monument, that's what they do. They don't wander on to the point and look around and leave models and stuff like that. I mean, I think it's called trusting that that's what you're doing. Okay, so I think if we can, how many names do you have, John? We have 17 names. Total? I believe so. So I'm going to suggest that we limit it to two minutes per person. Maybe ask if anyone else, is there anyone else who would like to be added to the list? So there's a clock up here. Just to facilitate the call of the meeting, I'm going to start the clock when everyone's going to start speaking. When there's a 30-second warning, I'm just going to politely raise my hands and then you have 30 seconds left to move forward. Okay, does that sound, Stephanie? If I have, or anybody has a question, I'm just left forward for the Women's Relief Board. So does that need into our two minutes? Well, let's go to the top, and then go to the people's two minutes. If you've listened to the Women's Relief Board talk for about 40 minutes, I think it would be a good use of everyone's time if you took a list of questions from the folks in the crowd and you answered them. That's what's going on. Really? That's what the whole work is. That's what it's all about. So I'm going to flip charts, or four. So there's some confusion. This meeting is built off a previous meeting. At the previous meeting, many of the same crowd, obviously not all of them, arrived at a list of questions, presented them to the select board, and asked that we have this meeting to address those questions. So here we are. At the end of the meeting, if there's time, after we've addressed these questions and folks have provided their feedback, we will try to entertain new questions. But the focus of this meeting is to address what was presented to us last week. If I could just for a moment, I think that the design here is, some people might want two full minutes to make a statement. Some people might want to ask a question that takes 20 seconds to pass, and then have a chance to respond. Sir? So I think we have his favorite statement, so I think we'll make that statement. I'm sure we don't all want to be here all night, and we may not be able to answer your questions. So any questions, and that's the purpose of the flip charts, is to keep a list of further questions other than what was presented to the board, this board, after this room met last Monday night. So does it sound like a plan if we give everybody an opportunity to speak? If it's a question that hasn't been asked, we'll write it on the board, we can take statements, and if there's questions that we can't answer, as I said, we hope we will have an opportunity to meet again at a later date, and review the additional questions, because getting a question tonight, we might not be able to answer it. Let's go. Okay, let's go. All right, so first up is Dorothy Singleton. Hi, Dorothy Singleton. Can you just say? Hi, little callus, just over there. Is the select board or the town willing to take GAI road and make it a town road, just to clear that up? As I said initially, the town believes that GAI road historically has four class town highway, we treated that way before maintenance on that way, so class four, right, okay. It's on our highway map. It's been on the highway map since the 1950s, even before that. Okay, can I ask one more question? We're here because someone, one person, has been telling people they can't swim at that beach. Do we have the women's relief board setting up not close to that beach? I'm talking about Tamalino. I know what you're talking about, I don't want to put names. Okay, but I wasn't saying it was a thing. That if the women's relief board said they have not close to the beach. So does the town have a solution to this? No, we don't. It's a private property, it's a private property. But it's not her property. And it's their property. Right. So they would have to be the ones to tell the guys it's on the property. Thank you for clearing that up. Thank you, sweetie. Okay, what's the problem next? Next up is Heather Johnson. Hi Heather, I'm the police cow's resident from the board of general. I'm the head of the board of the board. So I hear from everything I've said, there's certainly been a lot of history, some of which have been around for some of which I haven't. But the fact remains that as long as I've been here, which is a fraction of what a lot of people have been here, that has been used as a communal beach area. And it has been, it's a treasured spot and I have to drive to go somewhere when I live right over here, seems ridiculous. And I guess what I'm wondering is, is there a way that we can fundraise, come together as a community? I don't know, form a committee amongst all of us or whatever to win in conjunction with the women's relief quarter to maybe fundraise for the Memorial Hall, fix ended up securing a beach access like working together instead of divisions. And just, and I think that we hope that the positive energy and the positive outcome of this meeting will be is to get people to work together. This should not be adversarial. Everybody has fond memories of the beach area, the halls going there when they were kids to dances, all kinds of things like that. But I'm gonna let the women's relief quarter answer or comment on Heather's comment. We will at the end. But why don't you just continue with your. Yeah, we'll come back to the question. Okay, who's next? All right, next up, Jamie Morby. Jamie Morby, I live in Palace upon Random Road. So I have two things, but they're sort of very similar to what was just said. So I guess to build on what Dot said, I know you're trying not to delve into this too much, but it seems to me that a big issue a lot of people in town have been facing is harassment and threats of violence to families with their children from a resident. And I know there have been a lot of reports to the select board and a lot of reports to Wilson Hughes and a lot of reports to the police. And I feel like there's got to be some, something to say. Right, what I keep telling people is the town has no authority over that area. The best thing you can do is, oh my, if anybody got their windows down, is to call the Vermont State Police. They are the ones, they are law enforcement. Select board is not law enforcement. The town of Constable is not law enforcement. I think he has a limit security over that. He's, you know, pulling on his jaw. And then maybe the windows are legal, but if we could work the select board and town people were interested in finding a way for the town to secure ownership or lease to that beachfront just so that this issue doesn't continue building and keep coming up year after year in the future. I know I was a little bit involved with similar situations with the island on which that establishes that I'm legitimate as far as being from Calis. The select board coming in here is an intrusion on a group of people who is trying to response to the issues around access to the swimming. And it's the same select board that would tolerate a decision making public beating in the living room of Tony Talbot with access to a road in North, North Calis. Someone should have said, this is not legitimate. It's not our way of going. But I want to point out that there was a relevant state Supreme Court decision on this question of access on a pathway to a dam with a leg that was decided for the public. And that's in recent times, less than 15 years, I found it under Reherian rights state of Vermont on about the second or third page published by a Berlin based advocacy group for municipal bodies on the whole question of what rights in Vermont. And that's something that should be investigated. Okay, we will do that. Maybe we'll run over to you. Next up, Millie. Turn back. I'm not prepared. I guess I came here with the idea that maybe we could all figure out a plan to work together and come up with a solution that would allow that air property to be utilized by the people who lived here for years. I have been swimming in that lake for about 67 years. And I can't tell you how many times I've heard hassles. And when I heard that there was somebody who made it, which in my mind was not a huge deal. I knew that was going to be an excuse to plant down. And I just feel that when you start taking things away from people that they've had for years, a tremendous amount of anger gets spewed out. And I would like not to see that anger. I would like to see if we can find a way to peacefully work it out. Now, what I'm hearing, this is what I heard the plan say. What I'm hearing is it hasn't been posted for no swimming. So all we're dealing with right now is one person who's acquainted with themselves, the guard to the beach, which she does not own. And I think to take it further is probably important for the future because I know over the years that that issues. But I remember when that camp was built, those people thought they owned it, but they were very open to people using it. But no one who owns the camp owns the beach, but they don't seem to know that. I think that's part of it. So I think if we can find a way to clear this up once and for all, it is in the best interest of the town. I mean, we don't need to be a fragile town. There are not issues in this world right now that are weighing each and every one of us down. That we don't need to have a big fight. We need to come together. We need to try to work it out. And that means we need to know what we're ready for to be available to talk. But I think there's a lot of ability that this is what we want now. Next up, Robert Mitchell. I think, I hear you were on Robert Mitchell. There was some last one or two over there by the beach. I have a question, Margaret, bones interpretation of the original thought process of your organization. These post-it stamped pieces of land, would get in the way by your organization in 1930 to bring people out here from very much bigger to enjoy the way. So my question is, who voted this to close the beach down? Did you have an organization that we, and then voted to close the beach down? I think they've stated it for a few times the beach did not implode. Well, indeed we all have rights away to the beach. You know, I really think that's an issue that we need to address the rest of what we're going to be for, I don't think it's anywhere in place in the world. I would encourage you to talk with these ladies. Well, Margaret, when I had this land originally, you told me everybody had rights to the water. And recently, you said nobody has rights to the water. So were you wanting to be then, or are you wanting to be now? I think that we had this under control. I'm under control. I just wanted to make sure that the interpretation in 1930 was for people to come out and use the lake. That's why they gave away these pieces of land. That's documented. Okay, I think I need to explain this one. It's really quick because it's really not an issue to this meeting, it's between you folks. Okay, and you had a private search done when you purchased your property, and you had found that all of those back in the day. I did do a private search, and I got the land. The private case, and I'm trying this to the beach. Unfortunately, the beach that you have access to and I have access to it, even Kenny and Mr. Perry, is the beach where Mr. Walbridge hits. It says right here on the map that you use a benefit to the beach. All right, let's say yeah. We're not getting into the scenes or right-of-ways. That's not the point of the meeting. This is not the forum for this. Of course it is, just close the pits for everybody. No, we went over it. The beach don't speak out of turn. You're addressing someone personally. You're breaking the rule of the meeting. Okay? Well, be respectful. That's all we ask. That's the basement right now. You see what's going on. No, hey! Hey, John. What this meeting is for, if you have a wood issue with the Women's Relief Court and the land records and all those kinds of things, I suggest you write yourself an attorney and figure it out. This is not the forum for this and we will not tolerate this kind of behavior. My clerks. Stop, Rachel Sealing. Rachel, you live here, you're addressing many enemies. And I spend a lot of my weekends here and I have always swum and never came home. So I was pretty upset today that I was one of the people who got yelled at. That being said, I love Memorial Hall. I think that it's a town treasure. I think that the Veterans Memorial is a really important part of our town history. And so it seems to me that we need to come up with a plan and as I've kind of been thinking about it, my thinking is a couple of possibilities. One is to have the Relief Court open their membership up some more so that we can join them in doing the fundraising that I think hasn't happened since they found out about needing to shut down the hall. And maybe with more of us part of the organization, we can, you know, as a group think about that as possibly a way to also manage the beach access as a challenge. The second thing I've thought about is creating a nonprofit that can help with that fundraising and try to work with those who live in the core in that way to try and kind of move ownership again in a way that would be supportive of the mission of the core but also allow the town and our friends and family who don't live right here in Calis, like currently myself, to continue to enjoy the membership. And so to the extent that either of those seem like feasible options, I here is the first volunteer for the very most. Oh, thank you very much. Thank you. Don't say it. Next up, Stephanie Smith. Some of my comments were addressed. I was wondering about the same thing that was just mentioned regarding, oh, Stephanie's attention to the cast, regarding membership and maybe increasing membership on the Women's Relief Court to help engage fundraising and manage access and so on and so forth and bring that back to our public views and how many people have enjoyed that when it was available for renting. The other thing I was wondering and I'm sure that anybody here tonight can actually answer this question is related to what does the public have access to respect to the pond, number 10 pond? Is it the high watermark? And so that's a question I don't know the answer to. And there is Mr. Blum hosting here from Fish and Wine but it's also the Palace Residence, huh? I saw what I could have done. I can't answer. That's immediately complicated because Slaw has been very wishy-washy and sometimes the high watermark really means the low watermark. So high is the low point and so it's really confusing. It's really where it goes out. The only one I can maybe speak to a little bit for example is Lake Champlain. The state watermark is 93.5 feet above sea level. So anything below that is public land and public water. So when we get up to 100 feet you can go seven feet deep and that's public land underneath that water. So I can speak to that. That's the only one that I know that is really truly established. Some lakes and ponds have established watermarks and you might be able to use it as a reference but I don't know it's a complicated case. Is that something that the state of Vermont depends on the Lake Champlain or not so he doesn't know much. Oh, who would establish that if it were under question? But maybe we have that. We have a question right down and we can use it for the research to find out. And then I was just wondering about the GAR road and the doctrine of dedication acceptance. I don't think we're ready to get into that. That's fine, I just wanted to pet you. Thank you. All right, thank you, Stephanie. Next up, Lisa McCarthy. Okay. What are my questions? You just said we were... Oh, Lisa McCarthy, I used to live in that red house. I live up towards Adamant now. My question is, I hear loud and clear that the beach has not been closed but I'm wondering if there is a plan to close it to the public or post signs. I think that they pretty much answered that several times. Okay, well I heard that it's not closed but I'm asking in the future is there a plan to close it? The future would be the regulations to establish a place by the state and the town. Yeah. Do we have to be sure? Well, the town is no plan to close it. The town doesn't have any authority over that piece of property. Great, so there's no plan to post no just asking signs out of the future. Okay, thank you. Next up, Heather. Scandale. Scandale, thank you. Hi, Heather. Scandale from Calis over on County Road and I just wanted to say can I thank you for the women's relief corps for coming? I think it's in a hard position for them to come and volunteer their time and I guess I would like to know if they would take it back to the board, to their board and ask if it could be used, that area could be used by the public. I know it was kind of just clarified so I had to rethink about what I was going to say, but so let me clarify that. For the board, for these ladies to go back to the board and ask if the people could use that area, not to park in that where people park right now, but just to use that beach area. And then the, yeah. I think the swimming access piece, everybody's got kind of a different question but it's all the same question. Yeah. And I think they've answered it numerous times. I guess, yeah, I think you're right. Maybe I'm just not hearing it really clear. I just, my, let me look at my time. I just want to be able to go there if I can go there, but I also, if they're not wanting people to go there, I want to respect that too. I just really need like this really definitive line. Like, am I able to go with like permission or if I'm not, then I'll totally oblige by that. So. What I'm going to say, mom, is that the beach is not posted and they have no plans to post it. That's what I heard. Okay. So I think you can interpret that. How you, I don't know, is that clear? Am I using anyone you said correctly? And I believe they, unless I misunderstood, the Wolbins Reef Chorus stated tonight that their concern is if they actually provided a grant of access to everybody that there might be some liability tied to that. And that's an open legal question from their perspective. So thank you for coming. I appreciate it. All right. Next up, Rhonda Grace. Rhonda, it's me. I'll pass. You'll pass? Okay. Thanks. Rowan Jacobson? Rowan Jacobson. Rowan, sorry. Hi, Rowan Jacobson, it's Mark Dallas. I won't repeat what a lot of people said tonight, but I think it's, the very thing I'm hearing, I think it's really good for us to take kind of the long view and the situation. And starting with, I think we actually owe Women's League Corps a huge thank you because the reason we all love that area is because it's the same as it has been for 100 years, and they've done an incredible job of maintaining, so we give them all around the world. Now, we give them $300,000 in business. It seems like it's obvious, but has to happen here. There's a beach whose highest value is on the swimming beach. That's worth a lot of money. That's got a lot of value for a lot of people. There's a hall that has a lot of value for a lot of people that needs money. So, it seems like this is the moment to really focus this energy and in the direction where the whole town of Dallas is. And we keep going, what's been going on since 1888. So, it seems like a lot of the issues here actually have to do with one crazy woman who's not here. So, we can pull back to that. I think we can actually have a really positive momentum going forward, getting the hall in shape for the next 100 years and the point and the beach with it. So, I'm not seeing any huge issues here that didn't involve a lot of misunderstandings and, you know, individual and workforce forum. So, how do we take this to the next stage? What are the actual items that are going to allow us to preserve and store the beach and preserve the hall? And I don't know how we can do that next, but I think that's the next place we have to go. Thank you. Stephanie Kaplan. Stephanie Kaplan, I think I'm going to move on. Jacqueline. Louder. Louder. My name is Stephanie Kaplan. I live in Jackville Road right over that bridge there. I first just want to say that I just agree with everybody about trying to resolve this. It's really important. I love the memorial wall. I've lived in Calis for more than 30 years now. Well, it's swimming there, so I agree. We need to figure out how to race, how to do a weekend. But in the meantime, I have some questions that I want to ask the Women's Relief Corps. And I wondered, should I? I'll just ask them to you, Denise, so they can be written down or they can answer. Yeah, we'll write them down all the questions so that we don't lose track of anything. So, one question is, I hear and I've been told this before that one of the reasons that they wanted to post that land was because there was this problem with one man and that they have to post it against everybody in order to keep them off. And my question to them is, if they understood that they could post it against just one person or any individual they wanted, would that change their position about posting against everybody? Okay, that was one question. Another question has to do with the liability that they say they're concerned about liability, which was first aid women. I also want to know if their position on that would change in terms of letting people swim in other areas there of theirs, if they understood that there was a law in Vermont that exempts landowners who allow the public to use their land for recreation from any liability if they get hurt or drowned or whatever. So, I wanted to know if that was true and if they understood that, would they change their position about people that swim in? Another question I'd like to know about what the purpose of those boulders is that were put on the parking area. I'd just like to know why they were put on the parking. So, you maybe have any comments or thoughts on the questions that were just asked? So, I guess most of the first ones were done. And here. And here. So, if you're bashed the law and you've got the Supreme Court to sit down on that, please pass it on. As for the boulders, the boulders are mine. They're going on my property, not the beach. See, the boulders, they do have quite the amount of speculation and rumor and whatnot about the boulders. Thank you for clarifying that up. Who sent this? Who's next, Rob? Next up is Walt Ames. We've got boulders as well. Which land is loaded? Is it the triangle that people park in? Because if those boulders land, then there's no parking. And you don't really need to post the beach if no one can park there because no one can park in the fishing access unless they're fishing or boating. No one can park on the road. So, the boulders, in effect, do what posted signs happen to them. Right, and I think they just said what the boulders were doing. There's a text that they were going on her land and I'm curious as to whether or not that's land is the land that people park on. Okay, do you see the big blocks that are on the top between James' property and the one that's for people who are trying to go in? Those are being taken away and some of those boulders are gonna sit there and she's sick and tired of looking at those big blocks. I'm sure. And then what's going to happen? Pump and put some flowers away. So those are being aimed out. Then you go around, yours back, there's two big blocks there. Those are gonna come out. Then when you continue on and head towards Edd, Paul Bridge's property, there is a wall already there that was built in. That's the overflow flow for the pond. That's on my property. There's a half a wall built here but not completely. It's not on your personal property. Personal property. And I better put some boulders there because what happened is already this year, one car ended up on the old wall in the tall grass and couldn't see it, had to be pulled out. The other one ended up in the weeds that are in what used to be the coals, which is now, I think it's about 175 feet. Now the water is from the roadway and they turned around and they trimmed that and threw the stupid brush back on my wall. So that's where you're going. And then the rest of them are going up onto kaijwats, which I am. Cool. Oh, thank you. Thank you for that. Thank you, Peg. Next up. All right, next up, Gail Graham. Thank you for having this venue for us tonight. I think it's very important. I'm Gail Graham, I live in Calis. I grew up here in Calis. Graduated from eighth grade at Memorial Hall and very fond of that area. I know this has been addressed. Gail, I think we can talk a little louder because you've got your back to us now, we can't hear. I think we need you in two, because I'm addressed before this. It's not an access to the area at the Memorial Hall. And I know sort of the answer to that tonight. I'm also President of the Calis Territory Society and a year ago, we anticipated having a public, separate meeting, hopefully on the grounds of Memorial Hall because we were doing the history of North Calis and basically it was denied that we couldn't go there. So now, if we never wanted to want to do that, we're able to have a gathering right now. I think she said that the building is closed because there is a straight down communication but it's not asking to use the building. Okay, you're asking to use the property grounds, the grounds. Okay, so that, and making that point because for the future, I think that needs to be clarified. That is losing the grounds and not using the building. The problem with letting someone use the grounds is when you have a function, you've got to provide toilets and stuff and the building is closed. Next up, Debbie Haskins. Happy meeting. So I am Haskins and I live in North Calis, Vermont. You read my name in paper. I am the only woman's Relief Corps member who lives in Calis and owns land on the pond. I'd like to make an opening statement and then I have some questions. My opening statement is this, nobody owns the pond in the water. We are all caretakers of it and Rowan so eloquently talked about it. I used to have nightmares if this pond ever went under because there would be nothing for any of us we're all caretakers of the water and the land. And it's interesting because Rowan and Eric and Mary and all of us that live on the pond for those of you that come to visit, I was down at the access last week like many of us on my hands and knees picking up glass in the access and diapers and everything else. So when you come and you say, my God, it's beautiful. You bet it is because we lived there year round. I've lived on water all my life up in Isle of Mott and there's always problems. And just like the Pope said, I actually asked him to call you and have some answers because most of this is based on fear about what's going to happen to an incredibly pristine and beautiful place. I want this for seven generations to come, not just about me. I live directly across the hall so I've got the benefits of the naked man and probably so far more than anybody but 99% of the people that come to this pond are amazing. They want to see the looms. That's why I put the signs out. They want to see the eagle that's always on the backside of the pond. They want to come and take pictures and swim in a beautiful, beautiful lake. That's why we're all here. So what I want to find out is if all of these women who are over 13 who want to be part of the women's relief court and be part of the solution, I'd love to see you pony up your 30 bucks and become members. I haven't been to a meeting because we haven't been living up to our core values and that's honoring the soldiers and the vets and what we need to be doing. But I want to figure out how to do that so that everyone can. There's a lot of misinformation. So my questions are, is the hall for sale? Is the women's relief court accepting members? How can we do solutions about having a nonprofit and help the women's relief courts that what it takes to make sure that not only the building and the beach but the water stays the way it is so that we can have our fishermen, Dick, sit there and be our eyes and be able to fish always and all the generations to come. Because I am concerned. And this is what I said in my statement that one press reporter got. We need more people working together, not less. Yep, we've got two more. We've got Andrew Nemi. Nemi. Nemi. Pardon me. Thank you. I live in the Adamant side of the callus. So many of you know me as a long time reporter. I don't have a statement. I'm not in statements. I do have a vision. And I wanna, I worked with Peg Bollan for years at the Vermont Association of Snow Travelers. She's a long time volunteer. And I know her very well as a good person. And I'm sorry that this is somewhat far ahead. But I think there's a lot of confusion about this whole what happened from reading about it in the press or that was correct or not in people with individual incidents. So we have a very huddle picture of what's going on. I'm out and about here today. And there was at least 30 people there. There were kayaking. There were kids. And there was your classic peaceful scene. I talked to myself, what's all the fuss about the ops? I was up there when the ship was going down as they say. So first off, I wanna commend the slack worker waiting into this because it's a tough issue. It's legal. It's, I think, moral because so many of us who came here in the 70s had swimming poles. I'm sorry, the emotion. Had swimming poles. They went to the Baldwin Close. There were three on the Mount River that I used to go to the Baldwin Close. That's why people come in barren. My ex used to went to my go to high school into the small high school with grades one to six in this long period. Their swimming pole was less calm. That's how clean it was. Today, you take a lighter and it's going in this spot. So these places are becoming pure. They're becoming precious. And that's why everybody here is up in arms about it. My vision is that the board of this town gets together and we do look at the ways to turn that entire peninsula willing buyers, willing sellers, turn it into a town, beach town asset. You know, I went to a wedding. I've been to actually two events. I've been to several events there and I really, this is something we need you to preserve. I'm Cynthia Johnson. I wrote the piece in Fremfort's forum and I'm not confused at all. I was told not to talk about questions so it was really poor, but I do have a few more since many other people have asked. And- You mean questions for our ongoing work? Sure, that's sure. Okay, so I'm not confused about the beach being said it was going to be closed because if Peg Baldwin remembers there was a day I was having trouble with the one person whose name I won't mention on the right of way. And the question is, or what I heard that day from Peg Baldwin in her car was it something about, it was the weed whacking that happened on that beach which had been done that day, all right? So, all right, okay, that's what she said. So a lot of us assumed it's the boulders and with the state for erosion. Okay, so then the other question is that the person I can't mention, that one person posted the beach with the sign and parking lot private beach closed for private party. Now I was told by that person that she actually had permission from Peg Baldwin. I don't necessarily believe her and I ignored it. A lot of people were chased off as a result. So I guess the question is, did Peg ever give Tammy that person permission to close down the beach? Okay, so then I have a court. I want to talk this out at the court. I don't see signs that make it clear that all of them, people are welcome to visit the memorial there. And he had a kept sign too that the naming man, a select board meeting has to not trespass and she said, you're all trespassing and the signs have been up for years. It's just really ugly now with like, 10 times the law. Okay, thank you very much. All right, thank you Rob and Jonathan for taking that piece. All right, so what we've got here now is I think there's a lot of really positive, most comments have been in really positive, really wanting to help the women's league court continue its mission, finding out a way to help them with funding. So I would like to now hear from the women's league court is that they would comment at the end. Are you ready to comment? You said you would make a comment at the end. Sure, I'm not first. Got to stand up though again. Sorry. Women's Relief Court has gotten old. Whoa, you guys again there's something to do without the people wanting to get it. Anyway, so if you believe the deal is this, if a nonprofit can get organized to come up with the money that's needed to repair it and to pay something for the property to move, it goes to the National Women's Relief Court. There's not going to be anyone in this town who belongs to the local women's league court and the National Women's Relief Court needs money too. So, you know, if I felt generous, I would say, well, I don't need it, but yeah, they do. So if you can get a plan together within one and a half or two months, it doesn't have to be one set of persons. It can be two or three different plans, but get it together. This is what we've got. This is what we think we need. And this is how we're going to do it. And meet with us to go over it. Then there's a positive conversation. Whatever happens, whatever group takes us on, you can be assured we will not be there telling you what to do. You know, that's how we're meeting with, and who would, and they send us an email with all three of us at once, and we will kind of get ourselves organized to meet with you any time, any time. You need to ask the needs a question, but I can't, I don't have the next piece of paper, but maybe Rose gives you the next piece of paper and you can write down your email addresses and then we can have it. Put it off, put it off, put it off. Yeah, that's good to you. I don't think that's a good question. Can you tell me, can we, would you accept new members in the group? For an individual group, our particular group is a single group within the Eastern Seaboard, actually, because a lot of the other states have given enough. If you cannot join our core and make decisions on what we own at the present time, they ask because it's safe, they have the safe Women's Relief Core as well, you have to join the national. When you join the national, you don't have any say in anything local. So what we're saying is, first, to belong to Women's Relief Core, we've got one foot in the brick, to be honest. So joining the Women's Relief Core just because you think that's gonna do something for you is not. What you need to do is to get a rich person who wants to, by the whole band point, they can probably buy the product lots as well because they think everybody wants to sell their goods at the product lot. Then the road, then the point, then the building. But before you put that all together, you can do it with a swimming, you can figure out who's in charge of the swimming, who's in charge of the road, if it's a town that you get on your case, and you put a proposition together. But you're going to have to have sufficient money set aside to fix the building as well. That's fine. We're not just saying we're gonna sell you the building and the land, and you can't fix the building. You haven't done it. Who's the lady? Okay, Amelia, I think that's where we're at. But I think it's an opportunity to do it. I think it's a really good opportunity to use about joining, and I would suggest you get the information from them of who to contact if that's a huge issue for you. I see this currently that we've come a huge way tonight, and I really, really appreciate everybody's positive comments. Wanting to help, I think this women's relief tour, I'm going to be surprised at how much people other than you both here. And I think it's genuine. I'm hearing a lot of good ideas here. And this will be presented to our entire community for, and the other thing is, everybody, there was a little chag in the paper, I'm Secretary Harry Hersey, he's got a paper. If it wasn't five years ago, I was asked eight heroes, the building and the land. The rest of you go on to be President and Secretary, the treasurer who all is taking care of the building, and make sure that it's standing to this point. Because when I joined, it was Ross, period. It has done what we've done to that building and to the land. And I'm going to be playing it. And I'm going to be, because she upgraded the mine, and the reason that we were talking about moving the mine, was if the hall was ever sold, or we have so many problems with those people trespassing natively, then you can't reach the town hall. And the town would be great. Off-sever that it might not be in good enough shape right now, and possibly right. But I don't want to cut anything off, but I think this is ending on a positive note. So I'd like us to end there. And if the folks are interested, contact tenic.academy. And see what you can all come up with for a second. Denise, I think Tom's had his hand up for a while. Oh, I'm sorry. Tom. Tom, Carol, you brought the lightning radio. Just one question I haven't heard the answer to is, did the Wondering if the Women's Relief Court delegated enforcement authority to anybody in town other than a member of the Women's Relief Court for trespass? Right now, we have the Washington County Sheriff's Office and the state police. Right. No other individuals in the elevators? No, they're saying. No. OK. Thank you. All right. So this has been excellent. So you all heard that? The answer is no.